S07.E06: Beyond the Wall

[candall]

On ‎8‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 10:10 PM, dramachick said:

Did you see Longclaw's eyes pop open when Jon came out of the lake?

I did NOT.  Re-watch!  Thanks.

[paigow]

If there is some sort of magic in Longclaw, it is not unequivocally helping Jon...Ygritte captured him...almost killed him...mutineers killed him..Ramsey almost killed him several times...although he ultimately survived these events, any magic seems to be reactionary and not very pro-active or timely...

[Clanstarling]

16 minutes ago, paigow said:

If there is some sort of magic in Longclaw, it is not unequivocally helping Jon...Ygritte captured him...almost killed him...mutineers killed him..Ramsey almost killed him several times...although he ultimately survived these events, any magic seems to be reactionary and not very pro-active or timely...

Good points. On the other hand, Longclaw is/was the House Mormont blade so maybe its magic (if there is any) only works for the Mormonts. Didn't Jon get it from Mormont before Mormont died. Maybe his luck ran out because he no longer had his family sword.  There's still Jorah, (who turned it down, but still...). 

Edited August 27, 2017 by Clanstarling

[candall]

On ‎8‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 11:20 PM, Lady S. said:

... I think the shortened seasons are more budgetary so they can have all these huge setpieces without money stretched over a full ten epis and they can spend more time on those big scenes without having to make a full 10 epis in the same limited timeframe. ...

Blerg.  I didn't fall in love with this show for its "impressive setpieces."  To me, the chicanery and machinations and backstabber plots--i.e. the STORY--are so much more interesting.*  Each season it felt like the showrunners just got more and more obsessed with their bigger better budget-bustin' battles.  I was patient with the "penultimate episode battle" because the last hour was then devoted to moving the players along, getting them into position to execute the next clever plan.

I guess the audiotrack for next season will be about 80% sword clanging and anguished death cries.  [grouse bitch whinge]

 

*I have fully enjoyed the sex, nudity, torture and especially the magic, as well.  Dragons & direwolves forever!

 

On ‎8‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 2:40 PM, paigow said:

The Hound threw away Gendry's Hammer...did anybody pick it up? 

After that bullshit move of hurling the rock that cued the ww's it was safe to advance, The Hound lost any shot at MVP this week.  Hope he didn't lose Gendry's signature weapon--he's already, ahem, on pretty thin ice.

 

1 hour ago, paigow said:

If there is some sort of magic in Longclaw, it is not unequivocally helping Jon...Ygritte captured him...almost killed him...mutineers killed him..Ramsey almost killed him several times...although he ultimately survived these events, any magic seems to be reactionary and not very pro-active or timely...

Branclaw.

 

On ‎8‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 4:52 PM, Clanstarling said:

Makes sense - everyone thinks they're the hero of the story. Even the worst people. I mean, he's resurrecting all these poor dead people and animals, right? LOL

Usually I sigh when I get around to posting and there are eight pages to plow through, but not with GoT. 

The first two or three pages discuss the highlights and I pick up a couple of things I might have missed.

By the last pages, people have moved on to musing about the finer points of esoterica.  What is the Night King's motivation?  Who do you think stitched up that doublet for you, ARYA??  (It's great!)

Edited August 27, 2017 by candall
I'm too old to be using the expression "bummed out."

[Lady S.]

2 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

2 hours ago, paigow said:

If there is some sort of magic in Longclaw, it is not unequivocally helping Jon...Ygritte captured him...almost killed him...mutineers killed him..Ramsey almost killed him several times...although he ultimately survived these events, any magic seems to be reactionary and not very pro-active or timely...

Good points. On the other hand, Longclaw is/was the House Mormont blade so maybe its magic (if there is any) only works for the Mormonts. Didn't Jon get it from Mormont before Mormont died. Maybe his luck ran out because he no longer had his family sword.  There's still Jorah, (who turned it down, but still...). 

Jon splashed water on it and then the foreground blurred as the focus shifted to Jon. That gif posted earlier cut out the top part of the frame with Jon coming out of the water. Whatever people thought they saw was not intentional.

Quote

 

Renfro: Another thing people are obsessing over is this weird moment with Jon Snow's sword, Longclaw, where people thought the eyes of the wolf "opened" right before Jon came out of the water.

Taylor: That is so funny, somebody else mentioned that to me and I haven't got a clue what they're talking about. So either this sword is magic and it's doing stuff on its own or something happened. I'm going to have to go back and watch that moment close up and in slow motion to see what's going on there. I can say that there was no intention for that to be the case.

Renfro: I'll tell you my theory — I'm assuming that it was cold on set or in the simulated ice lake, and I thought that the pommel of Longclaw is just slightly frosted over and then Jon comes out of the water and splashes the sword which washes away any sort of frosty residue.

 

This has to one of Reddit's silliest observations imo. They think Bran is behind everything now but there's no indication he can warg into inanimate objects.  
(The source of the above convo is slightly spoilery with Alan Taylor dropping hints about things Evil Santa said on the set of s1 which are just now coming into fruition. Taylor also admitted in another interview that they were fudging the timeline especially in this ep.)

[Macbeth]

3 hours ago, Lady S. said:

 Taylor also admitted in another interview that they were fudging the timeline especially in this ep.

Really Taylor you think their has been a little fudging in the timeline???  People (and Ravens) are getting around like they own supersonic jets. 

When Jon sent Gendry to send get a Raven to Dany I thought "Why" To let her know the mission failed?"  I was really clueless, until Dany got on her dragon, and then I thought "Seriously?"

But maybe it is a completely different time dimension beyond the Wall.  Time just slows way down.  Explains why it appears the Night King is just chilling behind the Wall, slowly gathering his army.   He is in a different time dimension.

[wayne67]

I think the Night King's motives are obvious. He's an ambitious king, he sees a land south of his that is full of resources that he wants... The living, that he can turn into undead subjects that will never revolt and he's merely invading the territory in order to gain more subjects and in effect more power. 

If and when he takes over Westeros, he never has to worry about the long summer and pesky humans wandering around his territory again. 

And if he gets bored ruling for a thousand years over his newly enlarged kingdom, he can either have a long nap for a few centuries or get himself some boats and visit Essos. 

I was spoiled about dragon death by a facebook meme. If John had simply jumped on Drogo, the dragon could have left and they could have dealt with any of the stragglers while on dragon back, there was no real need to stay and fight off the incoming wave of zombies. I kept hoping he'd throw his sword at one of the White Walkers in a last ditch effort to lower the numbers of zombies around. 

Oh well I'm curious how well an undead dragon fights. 

[enoughcats]

On 8/24/2017 at 11:24 PM, Bcharmer said:

He should be dead by now. But he's not. His secret, revealed.

Am I the only one who looks at that PR pose and think Jon looks po'd because he's choking a scrawny wet duck?

[Clanstarling]

12 hours ago, enoughcats said:

Am I the only one who looks at that PR pose and think Jon looks po'd because he's choking a scrawny wet duck?

Well, now that you point it out... LOL

[paigow]

On 8/22/2017 at 11:40 AM, Bryce Lynch said:

https://www.theringer.com/game-of-thrones/2017/8/22/16181532/game-of-thrones-night-king-javelin

An Olympic javelin thrower suspects the Night King might have been using PEDs when he killed Viserion.  This could have huge implications.  Could he be suspended for the war between the living and the dead?  Will he have to give Dany her dragon back?

The living will boycott the war...The dead may get a team suspension, perhaps even a "lifetime" ban....

[MJ Frog]

So, here's a thing I haven't found the answer to: why were they even there in the first place? If the dead cannot cross the Wall, and if the Night King has been stuck on the other side for eight thousand years or however long it's been, why in the world is everybody panicking and acting like this has to be done RIGHT NOW? Why they didn't dispatch Cersie first, then go north. What was the damn hurry? It would have changed the timeline by what, a couple of months at the most? And no need for this stupid expedition beyond the Wall.

[MJ Frog]

7 minutes ago, jmnf19 said:

The episode has aired already? I thought it didn't air until tonight?

This is from season 7. Season 8, episode 6 airs in a little under an hour. I just had a question and thought this might be the last chance to have it answered before the show ends.

[jmnf19]

On 5/19/2019 at 8:21 PM, MJ Frog said:

This is from season 7. Season 8, episode 6 airs in a little under an hour. I just had a question and thought this might be the last chance to have it answered before the show ends.

Thanks for the reply. I realized my error. With all the leaks, you never know when an episode might air early!

[izabella]

On 5/19/2019 at 6:51 PM, MJ Frog said:

So, here's a thing I haven't found the answer to: why were they even there in the first place? If the dead cannot cross the Wall, and if the Night King has been stuck on the other side for eight thousand years or however long it's been, why in the world is everybody panicking and acting like this has to be done RIGHT NOW? Why they didn't dispatch Cersie first, then go north. What was the damn hurry? It would have changed the timeline by what, a couple of months at the most? And no need for this stupid expedition beyond the Wall.

The show didn't explain it well, for sure.  I thought that the NK was making things get colder and frostier and more frozen, so there was a possibility (likelihood?) that he would be able to freeze the water at the end of the wall so the Undead Army could walk around it. 

But I also think it was that the showrunners decided it would be cooler to create an Undead Dragon to take down part of the wall, and they made a choice to deal with the NK/Undead Army before Cersei and KL.  I'm not sure that's how it would go down in the books if they are ever finished.

[QuinnM]

17 minutes ago, izabella said:

The show didn't explain it well, for sure.  I thought that the NK was making things get colder and frostier and more frozen, so there was a possibility (likelihood?) that he would be able to freeze the water at the end of the wall so the Undead Army could walk around it. 

Just a thought, what if GRRM had a list of origins and explanations that HBO couldn't use because he had those points reserved for the prequel?  So what can the NK do?  Why are winters longer if there is a NK?  What's the 411 on the dire wolf?  All shall be major plot points and wonderful stories but only if you watch the prequels?

[Nashville]

5 hours ago, izabella said:

But I also think it was that the showrunners decided it would be cooler to create an Undead Dragon to take down part of the wall

From Production’s POV, of course Undead CGI Dragon is cooler; they do anything you ask them to without complaining, you NEVER have to come up with lines for them to say to get out of a plot hole, and you don’t have to pay them union scale. 😆

[MJ Frog]

6 hours ago, izabella said:

The show didn't explain it well, for sure.  I thought that the NK was making things get colder and frostier and more frozen, so there was a possibility (likelihood?) that he would be able to freeze the water at the end of the wall so the Undead Army could walk around it. 

Thank you, izabella. That seems to be the best explanation that anyone can come up with. But the thing is, this isn't Mr. Night Dude's first rodeo. If the Wall had that weakness as a barrier, how has it kept him out for 8,000 years? What about the other terrible winters that were far worse than the current one ever got? And why was there no foreshadowing or mention of this by any of the characters?

I think the more likely explanation is the one you mention: they thought an undead dragon was super cool. The lack of a reason to fight the Night King has always struck me as a 1,000 mile wide plot hole and while I hate to add to the pile on -- there is a whole lot more good Game of Thrones than there is bad -- I mean, JIMINY CHRISTMAS that's bad writing. Pardon my language.

[izabella]

42 minutes ago, MJ Frog said:

I think the more likely explanation is the one you mention: they thought an undead dragon was super cool. The lack of a reason to fight the Night King has always struck me as a 1,000 mile wide plot hole and while I hate to add to the pile on -- there is a whole lot more good Game of Thrones than there is bad -- I mean, JIMINY CHRISTMAS that's bad writing. Pardon my language.

I completely agree.  I hate that we have to try to fill in all the huge gaps in plot logic and character development with barely anything to go on.

One of my other theories is that the NK can now finally see the 3ER and get to him because he touched Bran's arm and marked him.  And since he can finally find 3ER, it was time to kill him.  Hence, the urgency.

If I understand what the show told us, 3ER was in that tree because he was safe there because of Children of the Forest magic.  The NK could not find him nor get to him even if he did know where the 3ER was.  But because he touched Bran, Bran was vulnerable as 3ER and magic could not protect him from NK.  I think NK can only spot him when he is warged into the ravens, which is why Bran warged into the ravens during the battle.  He was luring NK to him by warging and making himself visible.  He stopped warging the moment the NK found him.

[MJ Frog]

15 hours ago, izabella said:

One of my other theories is that the NK can now finally see the 3ER and get to him because he touched Bran's arm and marked him.  And since he can finally find 3ER, it was time to kill him.  Hence, the urgency.

If I understand what the show told us, 3ER was in that tree because he was safe there because of Children of the Forest magic.  The NK could not find him nor get to him even if he did know where the 3ER was.  But because he touched Bran, Bran was vulnerable as 3ER and magic could not protect him from NK.  I think NK can only spot him when he is warged into the ravens, which is why Bran warged into the ravens during the battle.  He was luring NK to him by warging and making himself visible.  He stopped warging the moment the NK found him.

I think that's a very good theory. And I don't know why it didn't occur to me that Bran's warging into the ravens during the Battle of Winterfell was a way of drawing the Night King -- that makes perfect sense!

But the Night King can only get to Bran if he can get around the Wall. And if it hadn't been for the undead dragon, that wouldn't have been possible. And there wouldn't be an undead dragon if they hadn't been freaking out about the Night King. Who was stuck on the other side of the Wall. I suspect there will be a better explanation in the books, but in the series they just ignore this completely, even though Benjen reminds us that nothing dead can pass. Argh. This drives me nuts.

[katie9918]

Dang was the direct after The Laziest In any world, in DHS