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S07.E06: Beyond the Wall

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4 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

What do they do about civilians?

What you proposed may be the most efficient way but,  SHE will be seen as a despot.

All of this grand battle stuff is completely unnecessary as I see it (and please, fellow fans, please tell me I'm wrong and I missed something, whatever it is, I don't want this to be true): why hasn't anyone said "What say we fly the three dragons to the Red Keep in the middle of the night...I mean they're totally silent in the air, right? Fly them to the Keep, perch on in front of the castle itself, and two as sentries. Then your grace can just scream out "Bring me Cersei Lannister immediately, or my dragons will begin to melt the Red Keep down, and you with them." How long does it take to scramble the gold cloaks to the scene? And how many are roasted immediately upon showing up? The Lannister army isn't IN King's Landing, and even if it were, how would they react when every time they turned a street corner a huge fire monster burned the regiment in front of them to cinders? How many servants has Cersei been evil to, that would immediately turn on her, organize (which is as simple as "Do you wan tot die for Cersei, seriously?") and turn her over. Those scorpions are deiigned for field battles, not urban fighting. It's idiotic to me that no advisor has proposed this as the most expeditious path. Anyone who's said  "It's a war and innocent people will die" are totally right, but that's just how it goes. It seems whenever that's brought up, no one says "Isn't this the way to kill the least number of people, though?"

PLEASE COME BACK GAME OF THRONES! Get off the ledge! PLEASE!

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12 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

Littlefinger is manipulating Sansa and Arya effectively and in different ways.

On the one hand I wish Sansa would trust Brienne because she has more than earned it. On the other I'm glad she's doesn't her consider a totally devoted underling only loyal to her. Despite what people think, she's not arrogant to expect that.  She knows Brienne swore an oath to her mother not to her.

Which part of "Lady Sansa I offer my service to you once again" are folks forgetting, along with Sansa's reply ?

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I am just way too emotionally invested in the dragons. There needs to be a disclaimer in the closing credits that reads "no dragons were harmed in the making of this episode." I literally have to remind myself there aren't really any dragons. But honestly, they could kill off just about any human character left on this show, and it wouldn't affect me in the same way that killing a dragon did. I've been dreading it all season and thought maybe we dodged that bullet after the Scorpion didn't quite work. Never saw the Night King's spear coming, but as soon as he got it out I just had this sinking feeling. That was emotionally painful and draining to watch. And "turning" the dragon didn't even occur to me.

Like I say . . . way too invested in the dragons. 

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6 minutes ago, Blonde Gator said:

Excuse me, I said I agreed to disagree with you Sansa shippers/Arya haters, and I shall.  Enjoy the rest of the series.

I have no hate for Arya at all. I am a little tired of all traditional female behaviors being blasted all the time, though.  And I think Arya's full of it to suggest that Sansa had any greater ability to act and save people than she did. 

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15 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

What makes me ship the two of them is that Tormund is the first man to look at Brianne as something amazing and desirable and that he wants her for exactly who she is. With pretty much any other man, they would have her in spite of who she is. I'll agree that she's under no obligation to like him back, but I've taken her reluctance to even entertain the notion because 1) he's a barbarian wildling and 2) his flirtations are a bit much and 3) she's got absolutely no clue how to deal with someone genuinely interested in her since most men treat her as some kind of oddity.

She's given no indication of disliking him because his is a wilding. She does find his overt advances repulsive.  And that's an assumption that she's not entertaining it because she doesn't have a clue how to deal with their feelings. She may just not be that into him. 

Look, we've seen her type. She likes pretty boys. First Renly, then Jaime. Don't tell me her look backs at Jaime and quivering lip is just because he's "honorable." 

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I thought all of the conversation scenes in this episode were really well done on an individual level, and the action was of course great, but man, the plotting this season continues to have major issues.

The whole wight hunt was probably the most potent example of a problem the writers have been having ever since they started to go off-book:  they seem to start out by envisioning big watercooler moments and then work backwards to get to them, often throwing logic and even characterization out the window. In this case the whole storyline clearly existed for the purpose of killing a dragon and having the Night King bring it back*, to hell with the contrivances it took to get there. Same thing with the Arya/Sansa story:  I'm 99% sure it's going to end with Sansa (possibly Sansa and Arya together) turning the tables on Littlefinger, but in order to make it more "dramatic" they're having both of them act like dummies first (honestly, has Sansa forgotten what happened the last time she put her trust in Littlefinger instead of Brienne?)

*And that part of it really was well done, especially the shot of Viserion's corpse sliding into the water. But then, this show is really at it's most reliable when it comes to delivering spectacle. Also, as someone else pointed out, the whole thing looked absolutely gorgeous -- that scenery was to die for. Did they film this episode in Iceland?

I actually think my favourite parts of the episode were the various conversations between the Magnificent 7 at the beginning. The way this season has been zooming from plot point to plot point, taking a few minutes to relax and let a few characters talk and act like actual people rather than pieces on a chess board felt really refreshing.

I can't believe I'm saying this as someone who's been against the pairing from the start, but they've kind of managed to sell me on Jon and Dany? I mean, I still think it will be trite and disappointing if the series ends with them ruling together, and I'm going to roll my eyes forever when Dany inevitably gets pregnant the first time they have sex after banging Daario on the regular for months (at least in the books we've gotten evidence that she's not as barren as she thinks she is, with her likely miscarriage at the end of ADWD ), but I really do enjoy their scenes together. It's honestly the most compelling I've found Dany in years. She's a character who's long come across as buying into her own hype, but Jon seems to be the first person since...ever? Drogo maybe? who she actually views as an equal, which made her emotional reaction to Jon agreeing to bend the knee really effective. This isn't one of the "sheep", as Olenna put it, but someone she genuinely respects and who's opinion means something to her.

Edited by AshleyN
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10 minutes ago, Hana Chan said:

What makes me ship the two of them is that Tormund is the first man to look at Brianne as something amazing and desirable and that he wants her for exactly who she is. With pretty much any other man, they would have her in spite of who she is. I'll agree that she's under no obligation to like him back, but I've taken her reluctance to even entertain the notion because 1) he's a barbarian wildling and 2) his flirtations are a bit much and 3) she's got absolutely no clue how to deal with someone genuinely interested in her since most men treat her as some kind of oddity.

Totally agree.  But I believe there are a couple of things going on here.  First, it was a happy accident that Tormund's first scene with Brienne (eating) turned out the way it did, with Tormund overplaying his infatuation (Brienne's first quip about it "That MAN with the beard").   And the writers picked up on it, and have continued to play it up, because both of the actors are fantastically talented.   And these two are a perfect foil, a la Bronn, to lighten things up a bit.

Brienne has worn her heart on her sleeve, first carrying a torch for Renly because he was the first man to be kind to her.  And now Jaime, who has grudgingly come to respect every aspect of Brienne, but who would never deign to actually act on those feelings, because of who he is.  Yet here is Tormund, totally befuddled and enamored at the same time, but he has no earthly idea how to approach a Westerosi woman, particularly not this woman of his wildest dreams.  At least he has the good sense not to go all wildling on her.    It would be really nice if we could get beyond Tormund's leering and actually get to the point where the two of them could actually speak to each other.  It doesn't have to go anywhere, really, except for Tormund to actually be honest about why he finds her so magnificent, and admires her so.  It would be good for the both of them.  Of course, that's never going to happen, much less them get together, but I would love to see them at least come to understand each other a bit. 

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8 minutes ago, Scaeva said:

They're probably saving it for the last episode when Jorah Mormont, having teleported from north of the wall for the meeting with Cersei, dies saving Dany from the assassination attempt Cersei likely has planned.

I think he'll die in an attempt to save his outspoken niece from one of Dany's "bend the knee!" tirades.  

The set up is just sitting out there ... right there waiting. 

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14 hours ago, Francie said:

So when I binge watched this show last summer, everyone said, "Any major character can go at any time," and "Don't get too attached." And we've made it through the penultimate show this season, and I've seen nothing but hanger ons and peons bite it. An old lady and two (presumably three) sand snakes.  A whole bunch of Frey men I'd never seen before. And Sam's dad who we've seen once or twice before and his recast brother.  Where are the stakes?  Six out of the seven Magnificent Seven made it? Seriously?  Man, this show sure has wimped out in its older age. 

The Night King just killed and reanimated Viserion a a wight.  Presumably, the Night King will start riding Viserion and the Seven only know what will come out of its mouth

Nothing to see here.

Move along people.  Move along

Edited by Constantinople
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6 hours ago, Francie said:

I hope Brienne finds happiness too, but not with Tormund. The one thing this show has done right is to not indulge in the idea that just because a man likes a woman, she should like him back. 

I said I hope Tormund "wins her hand" by which I meant that I hope Brienne comes to see that Tormund (unlike virtually every other man she's ever met) both admires her as a warrior and desires her as a woman.  That's a pretty potent combination.  I assume that Brienne's negative initial reaction to his clear admiration is that she doesn't believe it and she wonders what he is up to.  Book Brienne has been tricked by men pretending to admire her and as a result she reacts with suspicion when she encounters honest admiration.  I will continue to ship Tormund and Brienne because in the end, I think they could be happy together.  

In the book a Northern noblewoman (I've forgotten the character's name) is being pressured into marriage by someone who will usurp all her rights.  She flees to the Castle Black and there a marriage is arranged between her and a Wildling chieftain who will bring his followers with him to her castle and protect her rights.  I could see a similar show plot line wherein Tormund ends up on the Sapphire Isle, at Brienne's side, loving life, being her loyal partner and husband, and cranking out a bunch of huge, red-headed warrior children.

But let's face it -- this is Game of Thones -- they'll both probably both end up dead.

Edited by WatchrTina
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28 minutes ago, Francie said:

I hope Brienne finds happiness too, but not with Tormund.

I think happiness for Brienne is spelled "Lord Commander of the Kingsguard," not "romance." If ever someone were born for a job, this is it.  Having said that, Tormund's attraction is totally in character with how they'd think about things north of the wall - think of those big, strong babies. A guy needs warrior offspring to keep him alive when he's old.

22 minutes ago, Blonde Gator said:
36 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Unlike some here,I really enjoy how The Hound is written. "Look at him; he's been killed 6 times, and you don't hear him whinging" made me laugh

I know, right?

Then the hound explains graphically, twirling his finger around and around that "your mouth's moving, and there's sound coming out, it's whinging".

This might have been my favorite exchange of the series so far, Gendry trying to explain why being tied to a bed by Melisadre was a bad thing:

"I fail to see the problem so far," "was she naked too?" etc. And then the Hound explaining the concept of "whinging." I don't think the show's ever made me laugh that much before. 

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13 minutes ago, Uncle JUICE said:

All of this grand battle stuff is completely unnecessary as I see it (and please, fellow fans, please tell me I'm wrong and I missed something, whatever it is, I don't want this to be true): why hasn't anyone said "What say we fly the three dragons to the Red Keep in the middle of the night...I mean they're totally silent in the air, right? Fly them to the Keep, perch on in front of the castle itself, and two as sentries. Then your grace can just scream out "Bring me Cersei Lannister immediately, or my dragons will begin to melt the Red Keep down, and you with them." How long does it take to scramble the gold cloaks to the scene? And how many are roasted immediately upon showing up? The Lannister army isn't IN King's Landing, and even if it were, how would they react when every time they turned a street corner a huge fire monster burned the regiment in front of them to cinders? How many servants has Cersei been evil to, that would immediately turn on her, organize (which is as simple as "Do you wan tot die for Cersei, seriously?") and turn her over. Those scorpions are deiigned for field battles, not urban fighting. It's idiotic to me that no advisor has proposed this as the most expeditious path. Anyone who's said  "It's a war and innocent people will die" are totally right, but that's just how it goes. It seems whenever that's brought up, no one says "Isn't this the way to kill the least number of people, though?"

PLEASE COME BACK GAME OF THRONES! Get off the ledge! PLEASE!

Eh, military strategy and tactics on this show have always been sloppily written. To be fair, once you introduce organic flying gunships into a mideval military conflict, if the show isn't over in 2 episodes, it's just nonsense, logically speaking. On the other hand, that's no excuse for some of the other nonsense, like not giving a giant a useful weapon for taking advantage of his size, or building a giant freaking pyramid on a harbor, without figuring out how to use the tactical high ground for defense against an attacking fleet. Ya' just gotta ignore this stuff if you want to keep enjoying the show.

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There's no way Jorah survives to the end of the show. The friend-zoned would- be suitor, miraculously cured of the deadly disease, has to have a heroic death.

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33 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

What you proposed may be the most efficient way but,  SHE will be seen as a despot.

She is a despot, or seeks to be one.  What you (and Tyrion) mean is that she'd be an unpopular despot.  That would change with a few years of good rule, starting with defeating the WWs.

And I'm not saying Dany should kill all the civilians in King's Landing, not if that's not necessary. But killing civilians shouldn't stop her.  If she can't focus her attention on the Night King, everybody's doomed.

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2 minutes ago, henripootel said:

She is a despot, or seeks to be one.  What you (and Tyrion) mean is that she'd be an unpopular despot.  That would change with a few years of good rule, starting with defeating the WWs.

And I'm not saying Dany should kill all the civilians in King's Landing, not if that's not necessary. But killing civilians shouldn't stop her.  If she can't focus her attention on the Night King, everybody's doomed.

She's not there yet, if she is seen that way it's because of her father's past actions and Cersei's words.

Admittedly she could have changed Dickon Tarley, I fear Randyl was unmovable though.

It will be her actions off the battlefield and in the city, that will determine who she is, a truer despot is Cersei, she blows up the Sept to take out her personal enemies along with hundreds of innocent people, not even accounting for blocks of innocent lives.

13 hours ago, Blonde Gator said:

Brienne swore an oath to Catelyn Stark to protect her girls. 

Once Brienne found Sansa after the leap from the Walls of Winterfell, she also swore an oath directly to Sansa (Theon was there, and had to help Sansa with her part of the Knight's vows, to always welcome the knight at her table).   Of course, that doesn't lessen Brienne's vow to protect Arya as well. 

Small correction, it was Podrick, she looked to Theon for reassurance and support.

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1 hour ago, that one guy said:

I am most certainly talking abut the Mountain. Melisadre to Thoros: "You should not have this power." One could say the same to Qyburn. There are two sources of power to raise the dead: the Lord of Light and the Night King. Does Qyburn have a third? I strongly suspect not. Anyway, "zombie" is not a word that exists in Westeros, they're called wights. So however he came to be, the Mountain is a wight. As he appears to be dead and decomposing, unlike Jon Snow, and doesn't speak, he appears very similar to the wights north of the wall. I don't think this is meant to be a coincidence.

Sorry, but no.  Wights are reanimated by the Others, aka White Walkers.  From "A Wiki of Ice and Fire":  Wights are dead men or creatures raised up by the Others, seemingly when touched by the cold that accompanies them.  We learn that in the first book.

Qyburn is a White Walker?  Wow, he looks great for a dead frozen guy. Also, I don't think he has blue eyes... The Mountain is like Frankenstein's monster.  He was put back together and brought back to life, but most definitely not by an Other/White Walker.

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So we had five live guys, a burned corpse and a wight on the island when the dragons show up. Here's my take on the proper reactions:


Jon = yay! rescue has arrived. I've already seen the dragons so I'm not surprised by their size or anything.

Jorah = yay! rescue has arrived. I've already seen the dragons so I'm not surprised by their size or anything.

Tormund = yay! rescue has arri-- holy shit! Dragons! I mean, I know they're real and I've worked with giants. But I get to ride. a. dragon!

Beric = yay! rescue has arrived. I'm pretty sure I knew this would happen. Let's just get the F outta here.

Hound = about effin time we got rescued. So, dragon. Am I supposed to be impressed? Great, they breathe fire. Let's get the F outta here.

Wight = what the F is going on? ow ow ow ow ow!

Thoros = I'll just lie here and smolder.

Edited by dragonsbite · Reason: one does not forget to include Thoros of Myr
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So difficult to have to set aside so much reality for this episode to be plausible.  The more I thought about it I couldn't help but wonder if Jon surviving the icy plunge followed by the long ride in frigid temps back to Eastwatch was meant to mark him as rather impervious to the cold, similar to the way Danaerys emerges from fires unscathed?  For that matter, will Jon's Targaryen blood allow him the same capabilities with fire?

Will Viscereon have any instinctual or smell connection to Danaerys or Jon despite dying and being touched by the NK?

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14 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

Dany doesn't necessarily have to get married or name an heir. She could make a decision about what she thinks the plan should be. The queen approved plan is to have an election or a king/queensmoot or something. Maybe have a triumvirate or something made up of three people she chooses. I think coming up with some sort of plan is better than having nothing at all. So all of their work should just be for nothing if she gets sick or poisoned or catches an arrow or whatever? No plan makes sense because she isn't on the IT yet? 

Some sort of election or other system for choosing a successor seemed to be what Tyrion was hinting at.  He mentioned the Night's Watch which elects its Lord Commander by popular vote. 

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13 hours ago, anamika said:

How does genius masterplayer Sansa know that Jaime will protect Brienne? Does she know what's happening down south, considering she has no idea what's happening with Jon. What if Jaime had been killed in the field of fire 2.0.

So she's risking Brienne's life and sending her off to meet with Cersei on the assumption that Jaime is going to be around? Why even send her off in the first place if Cersei is so untrustworthy according to her?

And did Cersei really send that letter or was that LF forging a fake letter to get Brienne out of the way? Because, I am not sure I understand why Cersei invites Sansa to KL when a meeting has been set up between her, Dany and the KITN.

Per Sansa: You told me Jamie Lannister can be trusted, so off screen she and Brieene have been talking, about her mom, why she took Jamie to KL, etc.

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3 hours ago, domina89 said:

As an aside to that, why didn't we get more reaction from Jon's crew about seeing, much less RIDING, a dragon for the first time??? I would have thought at least one of them would mention it.  No time, I guess.  Sigh.

I'm guessing that after seeing a zillion undead things hell bent on killing you (while fighting for your life and damn near freezing to death) trumps being in awe of dragon rescue. Their main thought probably was "let's get the fuck out of here!" by any means possible.

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Who was the second member of the Magnificent Seven Suicide Squad who died?  Thoros and they burned him, but then the one who fell off of the rock and was overcome by the wights - who was that?  I watched twice and missed it both times.

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13 hours ago, britesongs said:

So yeah, I think I still believe it was from Littlefinger. Not wedded to that conclusion, but everything else makes less sense at the moment.

Why would he risk the one person he needs to take the North ? his little game with the Boltons did backfire on him, he just happened to have what Sansa needed and though they are ruled by LF, they swore to the North and  as Royce said they came for her.

Royce isn't going to do his bidding, at least not willingly or without rebuttal. 

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15 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Who was the second member of the Magnificent Seven Suicide Squad who died?  Thoros and they burned him, but then the one who fell off of the rock and was overcome by the wights - who was that?  I watched twice and missed it both times.

Everyone who died was an unnamed wildling who got sucked into this mission. 

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15 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Who was the second member of the Magnificent Seven Suicide Squad who died?  Thoros and they burned him, but then the one who fell off of the rock and was overcome by the wights - who was that?  I watched twice and missed it both times.

He wasn't one of the Seven--there were a few wildlings that went with them. He was just a brave guy who saved Jon before making a false step.

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1 minute ago, YaddaYadda said:

Everyone who died was an unnamed wildling who got sucked into this mission. 

 

Just now, DigitalCount said:

He wasn't one of the Seven--there were a few wildlings that went with them. He was just a brave guy who saved Jon before making a false step.

Ah, then I don't feel bad not recognizing him and thinking "huh?"  Thanks!

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13 hours ago, Pogojoco said:

But, YOU KNOW NOTHING, JON SNOW. The Night King should resurrect Ygritte so she can once again school your ass on that fact.

He can't Jon burned her body north of the wall.

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39 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Some sort of election or other system for choosing a successor seemed to be what Tyrion was hinting at.  He mentioned the Night's Watch which elects its Lord Commander by popular vote. 

Someone will just slip this note under her door:
        "Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony."
</sneaks away>

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14 hours ago, Francie said:

So when I binge watched this show last summer, everyone said, "Any major character can go at any time," and "Don't get too attached." And we've made it through the penultimate show this season, and I've seen nothing but hanger ons and peons bite it. An old lady and two (presumably three) sand snakes.  A whole bunch of Frey men I'd never seen before. And Sam's dad who we've seen once or twice before and his recast brother.  Where are the stakes?  Six out of the seven Magnificent Seven made it? Seriously?  Man, this show sure has wimped out in its older age. 

Season 7 has been fairly slow when it come to major deaths, but I think that is partly because there as so few major characters left to kill off.  Over the course of the series, the list of major or beloved  or hated secondary characters killed off has been very long.  

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Thinking about it some more, I wish they had Karsi'd some of these wildlings who died this episode. We knew her for fifteen minutes and yet her death was still a punch to the chest, so they could have done the same here if they were interested in spending time on anything this season.

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I'm with those that are pulling for Tormund and Brienne. I agree that he likes everything she is - warrior, statuesque, put-off by his interest... they are hilarious and I think if they ever get together they could be quite sweet. Brienne doesn't love lightly, and it may take a while for Giantsbane to pierce her armor, so to speak, but if she starts to reciprocate his feelings, they could be the most interesting couple on the show. Just because she's annoyed with him now doesn't mean she'll always be.

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I think it is pretty obvious that Sansa and Arya are going to clip LF next Sunday. It's written clumsily, because the writers want to surprise the audience, but Arya turning over the dagger to her sister was a signal from Arya to Sansa that she now knows LF is trying to pit the two against each other, after being initially taken in somewhat.

At this point, that seems like wishful thinking. I'm not seeing any evidence or even any hint that Sansa and/or Arya might be playing Littlefinger. On the contrary the opposite seems true.

The problem I have (aside from their stupidity in allowing themselves to be manipulated) is that I don't understand what Littlefinger's plan is. Ultimately, I know he covets the Iron Throne for himself, but how does he expect to get it, and how does Sansa fit into that plan? Does he expect to manipulate or force her into marrying him? That would effectively give them control of The North and The Vale, but at this point does he really think that will be enough to take the Iron Throne? Against the army he knows Dany brought with her, not to mention the dragons? 

I just feel like the show is wasting too much time on Littlefinger without explaining what he's trying to do. If they insist on keeping him a relevant player we need more insight because otherwise he just baffles me and I feel like the show is wasting time on him.

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"I just got bit by a dead bear!  (Sad smile)  It's a funny old life".

I think this might be a riff on the old Humphrey Bogart movie To Have and Have Not. There's a joke about being stung by a dead bee.

Maybe not, but I see connections everywhere.

Edited because I remember jokes but not the right Bogart movie

Edited by WaltersHair
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2 minutes ago, WaltersHair said:

I think this might be a riff on the old Humphrey Bogart movie The Big Sleep. There's a joke about being stung by a dead bee.

Maybe not, but I see connections everywhere.

And why not?

I saw The Godfather in the Waif's/Arya's fight scene in Braavos last year.......when the oranges went tumbling down the stairs as those two went whipping by.  Younger viewers had no idea what that meant.

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13 hours ago, Paradigm14 said:

She was the CUPBEARER. Once she had his trust, poisoning his drink wouldn't have been that hard. What did she need Jaquen for?

At that time, she had no training, she did considered silting his throat while she was eating, and he was talking this be his last war.

13 hours ago, Pogojoco said:

Given Cersei's interaction with Brienne at the Purple Wedding, I think she'd kill anyone who she thought Jaime might respect, listen to or even love. It is a scene of remarkable shade and both Christie and Heady play it beautifully. Cersei starts very charming, shades her hard and then Brienne, sensing the direction this is going, books it. 

And maybe Summer, too. 

Wights remember their last thoughts. I wonder how that play out, would they attack other people but refuse to harm Bran or the remaining Starks?

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13 hours ago, anamika said:

Because Jon tends to give credit where credits due, unlike Sansa who just dismissed the contributions and deaths of all those Wildlings and Northerners who fought for the Starks so that she could be lady of Winterfell. And where her lying about the Vale army because she wanted the credit led to the people who fought fought for the Starks dying. And why should Arya fall on her knees and thank her? Would not the Vale army have rode to Arya's rescue as well if she asked, since she is also Catelyn's daughter and Sweetrobin's cousin?

She didn't dismissed them, she came right out and told Arya: " Winterfell, didn't just fall in our laps, we took it back, the Mormonts, the Horwoods, the Wildlings, the Vale army,we worked together "

Arya just threw it back at her with stupidity and total lack of care.

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I'm just gonna say it: as sad as I am for Viserion, it doesn't outweigh my happiness that Tormund lived.

Me during the Tormund being dragged by wights: No, No, NOOOOO, NOOOOOOO, Fuck FUCKITY fuckersons, NOOOOO, *ender Sandor* OH THANK THE GODS!  Sandor you may have caused this with your goddamn rocks but you rescued Tormund, forgiven.

Never thought I'd say this but SHUT UP ARYA!  Yes Sansa is not perfect but chill the fuck out.  She did what she had to do to survive AS DID YOU!  Now make nice and kill Littlefinger together.

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1 minute ago, kittykat said:

I'm just gonna say it: as sad as I am for Viserion, it doesn't outweigh my happiness that Tormund lived.

Me during the Tormund being dragged by wights: No, No, NOOOOO, NOOOOOOO, Fuck FUCKITY fuckersons, NOOOOO, *ender Sandor* OH THANK THE GODS!  Sandor you may have caused this with your goddamn rocks but you rescued Tormund, forgiven.

I KNOW! When I saw him going down then the wights came up from the water hole and grabbed his legs I was all NOOOOOOOO - but YES to Clegane's rescue. SUCH RELIEF!

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Just now, Bryce Lynch said:

Season 7 has been fairly slow when it come to major deaths, but I think that is partly because there as so few major characters left to kill off.  Over the course of the series, the list of major or beloved  or hated secondary characters killed off has been very long.  

Yup - we've pretty much eliminated most of the expendable or superfluous characters. Even Meera was sent packing (though I suspect we'll see her in season 8 at some point).

A few new thoughts on rewatch (slow day at work)...

Dany had been getting very, very cocky about the advantage that her dragons gave her and was starting to see herself as being somewhat invincible against conventional forces. To a degree, she had reason to believe this as nothing they'd faced came close to harming her dragons (or her when she was with them). Even the dragon-killer ballista that wounded Drogon was quickly shrugged off. The dragons have become Dany's go-to response to dealing with conflicts. Losing one of her babies was a harsh but badly needed wake up call to her very real vulnerability. That just because they are incredibly strong doesn't mean that they cannot be killed and it took losing one of them to make her see that.

She also now realizes that Jon knows what the fuck he's talking about. That he's survived two full scale battles against the NK and he wasn't exaggerating the threat. Deciding to put the Iron Throne on hold for now was the right choice for Dany to make, but it came at a very high cost.

And for the first time, she viewed and treated Jon as her equal. She offered to ally with him, seeing that he was not beneath her and treating him as her peer and fellow, only then to have him accept her as Queen. My guess is that his bending the knee is going to be a technicality because she no longer is going to see him as just her subject and subordinate. And Jon scores major points when the first thing he does after waking up is consoling her over Viserion. It was a very satisfying moment between them.

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16 hours ago, Helena Dax said:

Arya and Sansa, what a disappointment. And frankly, I don’t understand why would Sansa send Brienne to King’s Landing… unless she’s planning to have Arya killed. I don’t know. Anyway, I don’t see the point in sending anyone from Winterfell to King’s Landing. If this is about the wight, the North already believes Jon or, at least, it’s willing to follow him.  And I can’t come up with any other logical reason.

1

Oy.  I'll be over here doing battle with my quote functions, as per usual.  Again, to anyone whose words I fuck up or lose, I'm genuinely sorry.   My computer does not react well to this forum's software.   

But on this subject, I can't make up mind if the show is trying to draw parallels between all of the Stark children and trying to illustrate that they have all lost and changed their identities through necessity.  Bran more or less died in the cave.  Arya has lost her identity to being a Faceless Man to the extent that she has no sympathy for Sansa being raped and beaten by Ramsey?   Back when Arya's list started, I wondered if Sansa would be on it specifically because they were at odds when they parted.  I didn't think she'd be unable to see reason.  Sansa is being little better.  Tell her that you were beaten, married off like chattel, married off again to a tortuous rapist.  Use.Your.Words. Starks.  

It's all so inane I wonder if it isn't Arya setting LF up, or Sansa setting LF up. 

16 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

I guess she may try and take arya out... That's the only reason I see to send brienne away... And I really hope I get my Jon/arya reunion next episode

The other reason would be so that Brienne doesn't have to "intercede" and get herself killed by Arya.  Sansa watched her fight Arya, she knows that it isn't a clear-cut case of Brienne being able to beat anyone who crosses her.  I think she sent Brienne to King's Landing to protect her and keep her from having to make that choice ...and she'd lose to Arya.   She would in a real fight because it would be too difficult for her to commit to harming her because Brienne gave her word to Cat, and Brienne is essentially no one to Arya.  

16 hours ago, hypnotoad said:

I never thought I'd say this but I am sick of Arya going after Sansa. So she doesn't think Sansa could have gone through some changes during all these years? It's stupid and ridiculous.

I thought Jon and Dany showed some real chemistry during this episode.

Although if Jon hadn't kept stabbing wites and just got on the damn Dragon, I don't think that one would have been hit.

I mean I figured at some point we'd lose at one of the dragons and yeah it's stupid but I really ... I think I got some dust in my eye during that scene!

I have never been as invested in the dragons as everyone else, so mostly I was fixated on who their undead blacksmith must be, those were some honking, dragon-hauling chains they had.   What did they have them in the Shed for the Undead?  The fuck was that? 

16 hours ago, Constantinople said:

Arya seems to have forgotten who served as Lord Tywin's cupbearer

This is part of what makes me think it's a trick as opposed to Arya being that much of a jackass to her sister.  She threatened her sister with a form of flaying after she'd been married to Ramsey?  Either Arya doesn't know or Arya's become a jackass.  Or...and I am holding out for this one...Arya is tricking the trickster that is Littlefinger rather than menacing the shit out of her sister.  

Way to not die, Gendry but what a dumb plot.  What was the plan there ever?  How did they think they were ever going to find a straggling dead dude and take him home like some kind of Zombie Rescue Squad?  It was always the invasion of the poor planners and bad counters, but jeez, that was absurd when it came to timing.   Still more evidence of Seven Kingdom Gill Skills with Jon, too. 

Edited by stillshimpy
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2 hours ago, GrailKing said:

Which part of "Lady Sansa I offer my service to you once again" are folks forgetting, along with Sansa's reply ?

I did forget that scene. Sorry!

Rewatching that scene where Sansa sends Brienne away again she drops her "bitchy lady of the manor" facade when Brienne leaves the room and is contemplating what she had to do. Now we don't know why she sent Brienne away. The options suggested make Sansa look either mistrusting, stupid or selfish or all three. The one good option is she sent her away because she doesn't want either Arya to hurt Brienne or vice versa. Some may scoff at that but I want to believe it until it's proven otherwise.

Edited by VCRTracking
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14 hours ago, Shimmergloom said:

Also, good job Bran on keeping your sisters up to date on all the knowledge you supposedly have.

Throw Jon in there too,can't send reply:

Going on negotiating mission, stop!

Tell Arya, I miss her Stop !

Tell Bran, I wished I was there when he arrived Stop !

P.S. Tell Arya we need every man, no taking heads; STOP!

Edited by GrailKing
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14 hours ago, anamika said:

 Would not the Vale army have rode to Arya's rescue as well if she asked, since she is also Catelyn's daughter and Sweetrobin's cousin?

 

No. We saw how LF was the prime mover of convincing Sweetrobin to give him command of the armies to help his cousin Sansa who he's fond of, over Royce's objections. LF wouldn't have lifted a finger for Arya.

Myself, I think that Sansa didn't talk to LF this episode because she trusted him. She wanted to see what he would say. Any advice he gives her is ultimately to benefit himself and so suspect - and we see she DOES disregard his advice as soon as it's given.

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Episode 2 (maybe 3?):  Maester Walden says something like "Maester Lewyn made copies of all the raven scrolls"

Episode 5, Littlefinger, holding the Incriminating Scroll of Plot Contrived Family Conflict, says "are you sure this is the only copy?"

This episode:  Arya reads the scroll and mocks Sansa's pretty handwriting.

 

So, I guess Lewyn kept the original and didn't make a copy.  This could have been fixed easily by changing Walden's dialog:  "Maester Lewyn kept all of the raven scrolls".  Just drop out the "copy" bit.  Or show that Lewyn had a medieval Xerox machine in his tower. 

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13 hours ago, LanceM said:

Well after seeing Dany's coat we now know what happened to Ghost this season.

Funny as that is. I'm glad Sansa mentioned him while knowing Dany is wearing her coat 1000 miles away.

So I'll add the like.

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13 hours ago, rmontro said:

Count me in with those who noticed how good Daeneryus' winter coat looked.  She is so young.  I'm an old bugger now, but it reminded me of how beautiful my high school girlfriend used to look in her winter coat many years ago.  

Sad to see what happened to Viserion.

There seemed to be some romantic chemistry going on between Jon and Dany there for a short while, but Dany seemed to withdraw.  My first thought was that either she senses they are related and that there is something wrong (although that makes no sense for Targaryeans).  Or that she lost attraction for him once he volunteered to bend the knee.  Oh well, I guess we'll find out.

What is the deal with Uncle Benjen?  This guy just lives out in the winter waste on his own for months at a time, just waiting for opportune times to make an appearance?  He's like a McGuffin that gets pulled out when needed.

The first time we saw him, he tells us the 3 eye raven called him.

Bran is the new 3ER, he called him to save Jon.

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Bran should be a bit more forthcoming with his information if he did send Benjen to Jon (which he probably did). When Sansa is telling LF how she hasn't heard from Jon in weeks, Bran should pull on her sleeve and be like "oh, btw...he's north of the Wall. Things are looking bleak."

He's just hoarding information at this point. 

Also, I know the dragons flew from Dragonstone, so they probably flew over the sea the whole way to Eastwatch, but man, it would have been nice to just see them fly over Winterfell for like 5 seconds, scare the shit out of everyone, have Glover start ringing his town crier bell. 

I guess I'll have to wait till next season for that.

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4 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

It was already established when he saved Bran and Meera; The 3ER called him and sent him to them.

Guess who's the new 3ER, he's watching, he knew the group was in danger he sent Benjen to save Jon, and the runners have closed his arc.

In addition to this, I also think Benjen tracks the wights and White Walkers.  So while he stays out of sight and out of harms way, he's probably in the vicinity.  He may have known about Jon and his hunting party all on his own as well.

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15 hours ago, that one guy said:

Always hoped he was a secret Stark. On the show, as the first WW he was around before the Night's Watch. In the books he was the 13th Lord Commander who was thought to be a Stark, and one out there theory holds he was Bran the Builder who build both Storm's End and the Wall before turning Other. But in the books, he wasn't the first, he was turned by a woman Walker. In my mind he's still a Stark though.

Kind of gives an interesting flavor to the notion of always needing a Stark in Winterfell.

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