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S02.E12: You Will Be Gutted


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(edited)

Clip! Btw, love the guys freaking out because Pope has a gun. 

Sorry about the date screw up, not sure how that happened because I double checked it. 

Edited by missbonnie
Forgot to post the clip.
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It looks like Baz is losing control.  J must feel so smothered, he's constantly being watched by Baz and Lucy. 

I don't understand how Nikki is so stupid.  She's Little League, while the family are pros.  She has to know that her drug weakness will be exploited by the family.
Hopefully J gets better allies soon, so he won't have to clutch at Nikki all the time.

I wonder if Smurf will pay someone to have Baz killed?

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Another tense episode.   I can't get a bead on Lucy - after the revelation of last week, I'm looking at her in a new light.  Is love keeping her around or the possibility of new opportunities.  Also, she seems to now want to teach Nikki the ropes on being a better 'something'... a groupie/hanger on?  She can't think that she can teach that fool how to be a female Scarface.   Every scene with Nikki is painful; I was hoping she'd overdose.

Does anyone else wonder if Pope is going to flee with Lena after he gets the amount of money he thinks will let her be comfortable in the future?  This thought was reinforced after he took Lena to see Smurf and he said she wouldn't see her for a long time.  After her close call with the kiddy car and then finding Baz absent, he probably feels he's her best bet to see her next birthday.   I LOVED when Pope racked that shotgun and chased all the riffraff out of the house.  He's scary. I did find it a little unbelievable with him robbing all those banks alone so easily.  Later in the episode, Pope was looking at Lucy with this death glare when he found her watching over sleeping Lena.  Does he have a problem with her?  

I like the scenes with Deran and Craig - at least they're still being loyal to each other.  I felt sorry for Craig, asking his little brother to help him from hitting bottom.  

So J got confirmation that Baz is his dad.  Wonder how things will go now with that whole POA situation -- it's so hard to tell who J is loyal to.

I just picked up this episode that the lawyer is played by Laura SanGiacomo.

Edited by patty1h
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Has Smurf never been arrested before? That intake at the jail seemed awfully thorough to me unless that's generally what they do for murder arrests.

Yeah the middle of a celebration of hedonism is just where young child should be. Baz is shameful for letting that happen. At least Pope is trying to do right by her in his own psycho way.

Well I guess that's one way to get a lot of money fast. Gotta admire Pope's work ethic. ? Maybe not too smart to walk into a bank with cash just stolen from other banks though.

Smurf just put a target on J's back. If it's not Baz or one of the other brothers it'll be Baz's gangster girlfriend. She's probably going to kidnap J or Nicky. 

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So J got confirmation that Baz is his dad

Did he? I wasn't paying full attention but I thought Lucy only said that Baz really loved J's mother. He probably should get a DNA test on the sly to be sure but it doesn't seem like he really cares.

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I think J will see what Lucy said as confirmation Baz is his dad. I think this will just make him more resentful...after all, Baz left him in dire poverty with an addict.  If anyone helps them, it was Smurf.

 J has just learned that Smurf killed Catherine.  Wonder if this has affected his feelings at all toward Smurf. Does he believe it? Remember, he wanted Javi killed... 

Nikki is really a dubious ally.  Someone he has to take care of...  Maybe they will disappear to his neighbor's place.  Or, in his new truck.

Pope seems to have deposited everything he has in the account for Lena; maybe he is planning to take off with her.  If so, hope he has some more money stashed someplace.

They all seem to have a treasure trove of fake IDs, so maybe that is not a problem.  It does not seem as though Baz will notice she is gone very quickly.

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1 hour ago, patty1h said:

 

Does anyone else wonder if Pope is going to flee with Lena after he gets the amount of money he thinks will let her be comfortable in the future?  This thought was reinforced after he took Lena to see Smurf and he said she wouldn't see her for a long time.  After her close call with the kiddy car and then finding Baz absent, he probably feels he's her best bet to see her next birthday.   I LOVED when Pope racked that shotgun and chased all the riffraff out of the house.  He's scary. I did find it a little unbelievable with him robbing all those banks alone so easily.  Later in the episode, Pope was looking at Lucy with this death glare when he found her watching over sleeping Lena.  Does he have a problem with her?  

 

 

31 minutes ago, lazylou said:

 

Pope seems to have deposited everything he has in the account for Lena; maybe he is planning to take off with her.  If so, hope he has some more money stashed someplace.

 

After watching him move instead of going through with the suicide when the bank robbing spree to guarantee her future started it seemed do or die to me. Everything was for Lena. Just as they confirmed Josh is Baz's son Pope sure is acting like Lena is his daughter. Racking the shotgun reminded me of his sitting watch after Javi robbed the home. When he was busting through the house it was more daddy is home then our sick brother.

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1 hour ago, lazylou said:

Remember, he wanted Javi killed...

I LOVED J's face when Baz was listing Smurf's "sins" and he got to the killing Javi part, and you could just see the wheels turning as he remembered what Javi did to him! Also his smile when Lucy tried to keep him on their side. Finn Cole usually plays J very tightly wound, and inscrutable, so when he does let some feeling through it's pretty powerful.

 

32 minutes ago, Raja said:

Just as they confirmed Josh is Baz's son Pope sure is acting like Lena is his daughter

I'm not so sure they did. Blood connections are not always the most important. I'm not saying that those relationships are definitely NOT what you think, just that I don't know that they need to be. Pope may just be the one who sees, as we the audience do, that Baz is a sorry excuse for a father, and he wanted Lena to see Smurf for what she is, just as he has had his eyes opened. A rough lesson for a kid, but I think he thinks it will make her safer. I just know that of all the reasons for the brothers not to trust Baz now, they never bring up that he is not related to them by blood. (Or maybe it's just that I'm adopted that makes me sensitive about the issue.)

1 hour ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Has Smurf never been arrested before?

I think she had her game face on, but that this whole rebellion of the family has, despite what she said, blindsided her.

It's funny. Tonight I realized who she reminded me of. I was working at a bar years ago and there was an older woman who worked as a cocktail waitress with me. She looked like a heavily made up cross between Joan Collins and Ellen Barkin as she looks now. Maybe the toughest woman I'd ever met. Had to meet with her probation officer every Monday, but spent her entire shift with a glass of whiskey, chain smoking cigarettes, and pointing out to me in colorful language everyone in the place and what she knew about them that was "questionable". I think I saw her carry a drinks tray maybe twice, but people would come over and tip her and pay their respects all night long. Smurf could have learned a thing or three from her. I know I did.

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3 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

Who plays Smurf's lawyer? She looks so familiar to me. 

Laura San Giacomo, for me Quigley Down Under as Tom Selleck's love interest is her claim to fame role. For others Sex Lies and Videotape is probably her breakout role. but I never saw it until it hit TV years later. And a  small bit as Julia Roberts prostitute friend in Pretty Woman being her early roles. Later in her George Segal's daughter in Just Shoot Me, maybe Holly Hunter's friend in Saving Grace 

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4 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

Who plays Smurf's lawyer? She looks so familiar to me. 

 

13 minutes ago, Raja said:

Laura San Giacomo, for me Quigley Down Under as Tom Selleck's love interest is her claim to fame role. For others Sex Lies and Videotape is probably her breakout role. but I never saw it until it hit TV years later. And a  small bit as Julia Roberts prostitute friend in Pretty Woman being her early roles. Later in her George Segal's daughter in Just Shoot Me, maybe Holly Hunter's friend in Saving Grace 

I know her best from Saving Grace.  She was great in that.  Most recently though she's been in a few episodes of NCIS.  

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7 hours ago, NorthstarATL said:

 

 

I'm not so sure they did. Blood connections are not always the most important. I'm not saying that those relationships are definitely NOT what you think, just that I don't know that they need to be. Pope may just be the one who sees, as we the audience do, that Baz is a sorry excuse for a father, and he wanted Lena to see Smurf for what she is, just as he has had his eyes opened. A rough lesson for a kid, but I think he thinks it will make her safer. I just know that of all the reasons for the brothers not to trust Baz now, they never bring up that he is not related to them by blood. (Or maybe it's just that I'm adopted that makes me sensitive about the issue.)

 

The thing is the bank robbery he went to prison for was used to fund the trust for Lena with his inside man. There didn't seem to be enough time for Baz to prove his unworthiness  and for Pope to go out on his own on a kamikaze mission. Having a pregnant Catherine choose Baz and Pope setting up for the child's future at all cost is my prediction.

Also with Baz as the primary antagonist I think Pope may be the first to fall.

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8 hours ago, Raja said:

Just as they confirmed Josh is Baz's son Pope sure is acting like Lena is his daughter.

Lucy saying Baz is J's father does not confirm it.  She could be lying.  Baz could be lying.  It muddies the waters but it doesn't confirm it.

 

9 hours ago, lazylou said:

Pope seems to have deposited everything he has in the account for Lena; maybe he is planning to take off with her.

Or maybe he'll leave it to her in his will.

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So who was "the man" who rescued Lena? Just a random guy? At first I thought it was J, but guess not. And the cop on their trail wouldn't just wander around the Cody house. 

I did laugh at the new brother/sister dynamic between Nikki and Craig being bratty to each other. 

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I think one of the most interesting things about the episode is the psychological aspect of all the characters were front and center.  Baz feeling like an outsider and needing to control everyone even getting angry that Deran and Craig went to visit Smurf after he expressly told them not to and him being unable to convince them to work for him.    Craig and Deran have an interesting bond as well.   The scenes between them were incredibly well done especially when he realized that he had no plans and needed Deran even for that.  You do forget that Deran is the youngest brother at times.   Even Pope riddled with guilt went about making sure Lena at least has a future if she wants one.

The only one who is still a mystery is J.  Who will he side with or will he screw everyone over to get what he wants?

i am one of the people who doesn't think Nikki is stupid but she is like Craig a hedonist who doesn't think beyond her next thrill.  The scene with Baz's girlfriend was interesting in that it was a lesson on how to be a woman in a mans world.  How to be useful without getting in over your head.  Whether she takes the advice is the question.

 

Line of the night:  "is that really how you think this story ends?"  

Edited by Chaos Theory
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Lucy trying to play J amused me. She needs to stick to narcissists and idiots more susceptible to her games.

Lena deserves a better father than Baz. I am counting on J to do his likely half-sister a solid and fuck Baz up. I want J to be a constant thorn in Baz's side cause it's what Baz deserves, AFAIC. 

Craig being lost isn't surprising. If stopped getting high and having random orgies instead of blowing his cash on hedonistic adventures, he might have a clue about what to do with his life beyond thievery, drugs, and sex. Alas he lacks impulse control, so I don't see much of a future for him beyond the cycle he is in now. 

Pope robbing that bank... SMH. Bad idea. 

I still hate everything Nicky and J/Nicky.  

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3 hours ago, Raja said:

The thing is the bank robbery he went to prison for was used to fund the trust for Lena with his inside man. There didn't seem to be enough time for Baz to prove his unworthiness  and for Pope to go out on his own on a kamikaze mission. Having a pregnant Catherine choose Baz and Pope setting up for the child's future at all cost is my prediction.

Also with Baz as the primary antagonist I think Pope may be the first to fall.

Pope is not Lena's father.  Last season, Cath specifically stated that her and Pope only had sex once and it was because she and Baz had fought and she was stressed out from having a new baby - that baby being Lena.

Pope, oddly enough, seems to be the only brother with the capacity for caring about someone else.  I did think Pope was going to try and run off with Lena and Baz wouldn't even notice.  Lena would sadly be better off with the man who murdered her mother than her father.

41 minutes ago, Chick2Chic said:

Lucy trying to play J amused me. She needs to stick to narcissists and idiots more susceptible to her games. 

I thought the same thing.  The look on his face was like "b***h, who you trying to play?"   J is probably the smartest one and will screw them all over.  As Lena's ( most likely) half brother, I hope he gets custody of her.

13 hours ago, patty1h said:

Another tense episode.   I can't get a bead on Lucy - after the revelation of last week, I'm looking at her in a new light.  Is love keeping her around or the possibility of new opportunities.

So J got confirmation that Baz is his dad.  Wonder how things will go now with that whole POA situation -- it's so hard to tell who J is loyal to.

 

I think Lucy is going to screw Baz over, maybe in retaliation for being the other woman for years.  The only reason Baz is with her now is because Cath is dead - she doesn't seem stupid enough not to realize that.  And for money, of course.

J is loyal to himself, as he should be.

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26 minutes ago, TVFANATICA2000 said:

Pope is not Lena's father.  Last season, Cath specifically stated that her and Pope only had sex once and it was because she and Baz had fought and she was stressed out from having a new baby - that baby being Lena.

So we're supposed to take Cath at her word?  Is she not capable of lying?  There must be a reason why Baz seems to have no interest in Lena.

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23 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

There must be a reason why Baz seems to have no interest in Lena.

Yeah, he's too busy being interested in himself! 

It's too bad Deran has no interest in taking care of Lena, since he's the only brother with some semblance of a "straight" life and a desire to maintain it.

Pope better have Lena's money tied up in a trust that no one in the family can touch, especially Smurf(if she ever gets out of jail). I wouldn't give 2 cents for Lena's life if she stands between Smurf and money.

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Wow. I have no idea where this is going but it's hard to believe it can keep going without someone dying. I'm starting to get the feeling that Pope is going to kill himself after he makes sure Lena is financially secure. He was just about to shoot himself in the head when J called him about Lena, and his bank robbing spree seemed like a kamikaze mission. If everyone finds out he's the one who killed Catherine, Smurf will be free and maybe even she and Baz will mend fences. But I don't think the status quo can last through an entire new season. Then again, who knows? 

They keep having these wild parties at the Cody complex and it makes me wonder who all these people are. They seem to be able to show up at a moment's notice. I don't perceive that any of them have that many friends. I'm sure any hanger-on would be down for these booze-filled, drug-fueled orgies, but how do they get the word out so fast? The neighbors must hate them.

Quote

Thanks to Smurf's lawyer, we found out Baz's last name (Blackwell) and J's first (Josh).

We knew J's name from the pilot when he first called Smurf. But in last week's episode when Baz pulled those photos out of the envelope it had "Langston" or something like that written on it, so I didn't know who that was until he confronted his father. I figured that must have been his name. Strange.

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Lucy trying to play J amused me. She needs to stick to narcissists and idiots more susceptible to her games.

Finn Cole was awesome in that scene and doesn't get enough credit for the job he does on this show. He is as cool as a cucumber and inscrutable. I definitely got the sense he knew Lucy was playing him, and I just don't think you can play J. That's probably because he grew up with a drug addicted mother and knows all the tools of manipulation, although in those circumstances a child can go either way - either become a doormat or become immune to it. J is the latter, definitely. His role on this show is the least flashy in terms of emoting but damn, he really owned this one. Everyone is underestimating him, except for maybe Smurf.

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Baz feeling like an outsider and needing to control everyone even getting angry that Deran and Craig went to visit Smurf 

Notice they were careful to say Smurf had called them from prison and they had talked to her - they didn't tell him they went to visit her. They are still straddling the line here like J. 

I can't wait for next week.

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1 hour ago, sugarbaker design said:

So we're supposed to take Cath at her word?  Is she not capable of lying?  There must be a reason why Baz seems to have no interest in Lena.

Pope didn't contradict Cath when she said that so yeah, I think we're supposed to take it at face value.  Baz has no interest in Lena because he is a POS father, and person.

 

15 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

Thanks to Smurf's lawyer, we found out Baz's last name (Blackwell) and J's first (Josh).

I thought that was a code name for Baz - LOL.

 

24 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

We knew J's name from the pilot when he first called Smurf. But in last week's episode when Baz pulled those photos out of the envelope it had "Langston" or something like that written on it, so I didn't know who that was until he confronted his father. I figured that must have been his name. Strange.

Langston could be a first name as well so maybe Baz's dad is Langston Blackwell.

Edited by TVFANATICA2000
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Smurf's lawyer gave J an envelope with $10K to give to a guy named Trujillo.  Who is he - has his name come up before?

EDIT:  Nevermind - Upon further reading, I see various guesses that this may be for a hitman or PI to get more dirt on Baz.  I will believe that until the show says otherwise.

Edited by patty1h
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has anyone noticed Pope starting the cars that he stole without crossing wires? its like the owners of those cars left the keys in the ignition for him to take. I hope they get rid of the Nikki character...her time on the screen just drags the show for me. Interesting 'brotherly love' between Craig and Daren... With Daren's boyfriend out of the picture, for now anyway, maybe the 'brotherly love' would go a step deeper?

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Shitty weather caused my DVR to time out when there was like 5-7 minutes left.  I saw Derran and Craig get their cuts from Baz, then after that it went dead.  Can someone fill me in on what happened after the last commercial break?

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11 minutes ago, Missbones said:

Shitty weather caused my DVR to time out when there was like 5-7 minutes left.  I saw Derran and Craig get their cuts from Baz, then after that it went dead.  Can someone fill me in on what happened after the last commercial break?

Craig had an existential crisis and asked Deran to hide the money from him and doesn't know what to do with his life.  Deran won't keep money from him but will help him apply to college or something.  Pope took Lena to visit Smurf just to be cruel.  Baz' girlfriend separated the weak gazelle (Nicky) from the herd with Tijuanna Cocaine (TM) so she could (no doubt) pump her for info and Baz could talk to J.

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God Nikki is the most unbelievably annoying person ever. She demands money for an illegal job in front of unknown randos, runs off with drugs, she whines about not being included in the family meeting as if she deserves to be in it because she's had sex with 2 of them and did ONE job where she played to her strength and acted like a dumb blond. When she finds out that Smurf may have killed Catherine, she still thinks that it's all fun and games, completely ignoring what a big deal this power play is and how deadly it could be. 

That said, Nikki is getting some really shitty advice from Lucy and Smurf about how to handle business, it's all "men are dumb and think with their hormones and you can get them to do whatever you like", which ignores how that's worked out for Smurf.

Smurf's attempt to portray herself as a poor innocent victim who was just lying and stashing millions worth of stuff for the good of the family was hilarious.

Lucy's attempt to play the fake sympathy angle with J was amusing, he's looking at her like "bitch please, that stupid cop tried this shit on me too and I screwed her good, don't try and play me with my deadbeat dad that was so last year."

I'm really hoping J is just using Nikki for the free sex and intel on the others because she can't keep her mouth shut and has no other redeeming features. Hopefully he'll use his new position as the man in charge and sell everything, transfer it to his own account and ditch these drug addled losers already. He's far too smart to be dragged down with all this petty nonsense. He could be their new bank and money launderer. 

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8 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

So we're supposed to take Cath at her word?  Is she not capable of lying?  There must be a reason why Baz seems to have no interest in Lena.

he's a shitty father

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59 minutes ago, SingleMaltBlonde said:

Craig had an existential crisis and asked Deran to hide the money from him and doesn't know what to do with his life.  Deran won't keep money from him but will help him apply to college or something.  Pope took Lena to visit Smurf just to be cruel.  Baz' girlfriend separated the weak gazelle (Nicky) from the herd with Tijuanna Cocaine (TM) so she could (no doubt) pump her for info and Baz could talk to J.

Thanks for the reply!  Sounds like I didn't miss anything too crazy, like last week's episode's ending.

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1 hour ago, Raja said:

Having a pregnant Catherine choose Baz and Pope setting up for the child's future at all cost is my prediction.

I am a little confused about this comment.  As others have noted above, Pope and Catherine slept together after Lena was born, according to a conversation they have early in Season One,...and, since Lena is about 6, that would have happened well before Pope went to prison.  I recently found Season One free on Amazon Prime, and watched the first episode again.  in that first episode, a different actress plays Lena.  She appears to be much younger...by episode two, the permanent Lena appears. Also in episode one, a conversation between Pope and Baz makes it sound as though Lena was a tiny baby at the time Pope went to prison.  She would have had to have been around three when Pope left if Pope did three years and was just released. I wonder if there was a revision to the back story after the first episode was filmed.  Maybe the original movie had a slightly different story, one in which a pregnant Catherine chooses Baz because Pope is going to prison.

2 hours ago, LekoBoy said:

What was up with Pope and smashing the spark plugs?  And then putting the ceramic shards in his pocket?

I am baffled about that, too. Hope someone knows.

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I literally laughed out loud when Smurf referred to herself as their "innocent mother" to Craig and Deran. Like, Smurf, have you been watching the same show we`ve all been watching? You are many things, but innocent is not one of them.

They actually made me feel bad for Craig in this one, and his realization that he has nothing in his wheelhouse other than doing drugs and committing crimes. He actually showed some depth here, ruminating on what his life would be like if he was born into a normal, non criminal family, being upset that he has to rely on his younger brother for pretty much everything (I always forget that Deran is actually the youngest brother. Generally Craig is a classic youngest brother type), and wishing that he could do something else with his life, even though he knows that he really doesn't have a lot of options. I guess maybe Deran could hire Craig at his bar, but I'm pretty sure the only thing he could be remotely qualified for is a bartender, and I don't think Deran would want Craig, hedonist extraordinaire, to be in charge of his booze. For all their dysfunction, Craig and Deran do probably have the most healthy family relationship on the show, at least among the adults. Its kind of sweet how much they just uncomplicatedly care about each other.

Baz is just such an awful father. He basically just dumps Lena on all of his relatives (who are criminals, and not the most stable people on the best of days) and runs off doing his own thing, even ditching her at a wild party, where she would have been run over by a car if some random guy hadn't done anything. No wonder J doesn't buy for a second that Baz regrets not being a father to him, he sees that he couldn't care less about the kid he actually claims as his own.

J is already onto Lucy and her manipulations, I think she is seriously underestimating him. J might be rather desperate to have a family, but he isn't an idiot, and he knows when he's being fed bullshit. Now I just want to know how much he buys what Smurf is selling. He seems loyal to her, but who knows what he's really thinking. I think being the kid of an addict made him very observant, and quick to fade into the background, making himself useful but not super noticeable, until he can make a move.

I'm wondering if Pope is planning to kill himself/get himself killed and leave the money to Lena. Things are getting so tense, I would be amazed if everyone gets out of this season alive.

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On 8/22/2017 at 8:12 PM, patty1h said:

Another tense episode.   I can't get a bead on Lucy - after the revelation of last week, I'm looking at her in a new light.  Is love keeping her around or the possibility of new opportunities.  Also, she seems to now want to teach Nikki the ropes on being a better 'something'... a groupie/hanger on?  She can't think that she can teach that fool how to be a female Scarface.   Every scene with Nikki is painful; I was hoping she'd overdose.

Does anyone else wonder if Pope is going to flee with Lena after he gets the amount of money he thinks will let her be comfortable in the future?  This thought was reinforced after he took Lena to see Smurf and he said she wouldn't see her for a long time.  After her close call with the kiddy car and then finding Baz absent, he probably feels he's her best bet to see her next birthday.   I LOVED when Pope racked that shotgun and chased all the riffraff out of the house.  He's scary. I did find it a little unbelievable with him robbing all those banks alone so easily.  Later in the episode, Pope was looking at Lucy with this death glare when he found her watching over sleeping Lena.  Does he have a problem with her?  

I like the scenes with Deran and Craig - at least they're still being loyal to each other.  I felt sorry for Craig, asking his little brother to help him from hitting bottom.  

So J got confirmation that Baz is his dad.  Wonder how things will go now with that whole POA situation -- it's so hard to tell who J is loyal to.

I just picked up this episode that the lawyer is played by Laura SanGiacomo.

The 'bead' on Lucy...

She is playing Baz...

SHE is in control..she explained to Nikki how women gain it..

Craig and Daren are scared AF...after she rolled in last week..pistol whipped her brother..and took off with the kid.

Baz doesn't think she's important'

Well.

Guess.

What.

Lucy IS IMPORTANT.

Baz...he doesn't know what he's in for with her

Lucy is manipulating Nikki to get to J...now that she knows he has POA

 

Pope may not suicide after all...Knowing w/Smurf gone....he's best chance of Lena seeing next birthday.

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4 hours ago, MrWhyt said:

he's a shitty father

I wasn't following your comment at the beginning....lol

...however reading again...

YES...I think you're on to something...Pope is dad to Lena?

Cath lying?...which would explain Baz's disinterest in little Lena?

However..Lena seemed too young for Pope to be her father if he was "away" for 10 years...

i may have my years wrong...not sure...

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Someone on Reddit explained the broken spark plugs:  due to their properties, the ceramic shards of spark plugs can cause glass to explode on contact.  Pope took the pieces into the banks in case they tried locking him in he could use the plugs to smash through the banks front window.

Edited by patty1h
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8 hours ago, Shellbell59 said:

I wasn't following your comment at the beginning....lol

...however reading again...

YES...I think you're on to something...Pope is dad to Lena?

Cath lying?...which would explain Baz's disinterest in little Lena?

However..Lena seemed too young for Pope to be her father if he was "away" for 10 years...

i may have my years wrong...not sure...

That's not my position. Baz is Lena's dad, as other's have pointed out Pope and Cath slept together after her birth.

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Nicki, please stop doing coke and go away.

I kinda like how everyone seems to underestimate J.  I wonder if Craig and Deran are going to try and protect him like Smurf told them too. 

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2 minutes ago, MaggieG said:

I wonder if Craig and Deran are going to try and protect him like Smurf told them too. 

That's the big question.  The choices the boys have is Smurf and J on one hand and Baz on the other.  This is really Deran's call, as we all know Craig will do whatever Deran says.  I think blood will win.  They're going to side with Smurf and J leading to next season's Codys vs.  Baz and Lucy storyline.  I haven't mentioned Pope because I don't think he makes it out of Season 2.

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5 hours ago, patty1h said:

Someone on Reddit explained the broken spark plugs:  due to their properties, the ceramic shards of spark plugs can cause glass to explode on contact.  Pope took the pieces into the banks in case they tried locking him in he could use the plugs to smash through the banks front window.

Oh, thank you so much for the explanation.  He must have used the shards to break the glass door at the last bank he robbed.  I watched that scene two or three times trying to figure out what he had thrown that broke that glass.

I wonder how the crooked banker will contrive to deposit Pope's money.  

23 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

That's the big question.  The choices the boys have is Smurf and J on one hand and Baz on the other.  This is really Deran's call, as we all know Craig will do whatever Deran says.  I think blood will win.  They're going to side with Smurf and J leading to next season's Codys vs.  Baz and Lucy storyline.  I haven't mentioned Pope because I don't think he makes it out of Season 2.

I fear you may be right about Pope.  But Hatosy has turned in such a great performance the past two seasons, I hate to see him go.

Edited by lazylou
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I love this show!  Of course having lots of eye candy helps (looking at you guys Deran & Craig!)

Call me crazy but I found myself rooting for Smurf this episode.  I'm not a Baz fan at all.

Even though Pope is scary and murderous, I hope he makes it to next season.

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1 hour ago, missbonnie said:

I agree with the posters above that said they don't want to see Pope go. Unfortunately, the trailer for the finale next week says something like the family will never be the same. 

I agree, but worse than Pope fulfilling his destiny for the story would be a lame untruth in advertising game changing event. Having the FBI pick him up and going back to prison doesn't seem to suggest never the same. The others finding out he was Smurf's hit man probably doesn't either. It is wait and see time.

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On 8/23/2017 at 9:26 AM, Chaos Theory said:

I think one of the most interesting things about the episode is the psychological aspect of all the characters were front and center.  Baz feeling like an outsider and needing to control everyone even getting angry that Deran and Craig went to visit Smurf after he expressly told them not to and him being unable to convince them to work for him.    Craig and Deran have an interesting bond as well.   The scenes between them were incredibly well done especially when he realized that he had no plans and needed Deran even for that.  You do forget that Deran is the youngest brother at times.   Even Pope riddled with guilt went about making sure Lena at least has a future if she wants one.

 

I'm finding Craig and Deran much more interesting than before.  They seem like they only 2 who are acting like brothers/family.  They fight but their bond and loyalty remain strong.

Baz cares about no one but himself.  And as you and others have said, J is still a mystery.  I think he ends up being the only one who walks away whole at series end.

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Quote

has anyone noticed Pope starting the cars that he stole without crossing wires? its like the owners of those cars left the keys in the ignition for him to take.

Yes I caught that too. In fact I read somewhere just recently that the "crossing wires to start a car" trope is total B.S. that only happens in the movies - today's cars don't work that way.

Quote

Craig had an existential crisis and asked Deran to hide the money from him and doesn't know what to do with his life.  Deran won't keep money from him but will help him apply to college or something.

LOL can you imagine Craig in college? Yeah, me neither. He'd pull a gun on his teacher for getting a bad grade.

Even assuming Craig could clean himself up enough and get off the coke, what kind of legit work could he go into? He could buy a business like Deran did but what would he have the wherewithal to run? He seems to understand mechanics well enough to disable the yacht. Or maybe he could just buy himself some kind of party boat and run something like that. That would be right up his alley.

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On 8/23/2017 at 2:02 PM, Broderbits said:

It's too bad Deran has no interest in taking care of Lena, since he's the only brother with some semblance of a "straight" life and a desire to maintain it.

A happy ending would be Deran and Adrian getting married and adopting Lena...it isn't going to happen but a girl can wish.

 

23 hours ago, wayne67 said:

Smurf's attempt to portray herself as a poor innocent victim who was just lying and stashing millions worth of stuff for the good of the family was hilarious.

I won't buy innocent but I do think she kept the stash for the future.  I don't get why Baz was so shocked.

 

20 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

They actually made me feel bad for Craig in this one, 

Baz is just such an awful father. 

Given what we have been told neither had a normal childhood.  Really everyone here has had a traumatic childhood and lack any sort of moral compass.

 

9 hours ago, lazylou said:

I wonder how the crooked banker will contrive to deposit Pope's money.  

I have worked in a bank branch and in banking.  It would take a good amount of work but not impossible.  If it's going into a trust account rather than a checking/savings it might be easier.

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