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S04.E03: Week 2, Night 1

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43 minutes ago, seacliffsal said:

Okay, even though the show came on after the President's speech, my DVR still cut off at 10:00, so I missed a half-hour.  I do have some gaps in what I was able to watch.

However, I disagree a bit about Dean.  I do agree that he is immature-and as a result he probably thought just backing off was enough to let Kristina know he wasn't that interested in her.  Interestingly, it was the same strategy Amanda used with Alex and all of the women jumped on the 'how can he not figure out she's not interested in him' bandwagon, but when it came to Dean and Christina, they interpret it differently.  Dean also (last week) told Christina that she should date someone else if asked.  Then, it finally came to his realization that he had to be a bit more forthcoming and told her that they should take a step back (last night).  In fact, he purposefully told her BEFORE the rose ceremony so that she could choose someone else if she wanted.  I think he's been pretty clear that although he likes her, he's really not that invested in this relationship.  I wasn't able to see the last 30 minutes (again, DVR cut-off...) so can't speak to what happened then.  But, I do feel that he has been trying to let her know that he wasn't as interested in her as me may have been during the production shutdown.  It happens.  Many of us (well, at least me) have been drawn to someone and thought we really liked that person...until we got to know them a little bit more.  The kind thing is to let them know, which I think Dean did before the rose ceremony.  He even told her that he didn't want to wait until after the rose ceremony as then it would look like he used her for her rose.  So, although I don't want him as the Bachelor, I don't think he was leading her on.  I missed the birthday cake fiasco, but I would probably have fallen for the producers' "ah, would you give this to her..." line thinking I was doing something nice and not realizing that I was unintentionally hurting someone.  Yes, I can be a bit dim myself...

Good points about Dean trying in his own way to let Kristina know he wasn't that interested.  I think the difference between Amanda doing that to Alex and Dean to Kristina is that they had spent an off camera week together that Kristina described as "romantic".  So, she probably thought of them as a couple already when they re-started the show instead of being an even playing ground.

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51 minutes ago, seacliffsal said:

The kind thing is to let them know, which I think Dean did before the rose ceremony.

I have to say this was the right thing to do.  He was being honest.  I don't even know what happened with the cake fiasco.  Dean is getting a weird edit.  He's not stupid, and he can be charming at times.  I just think he is extremely non-confrontational and this makes him a bad communicator.  I don't think he could handle being the Bachelor.

27 minutes ago, MVFrostsMyPie said:

If he wanted to be with you, he would.

I mean, it doesn't get any more clear than this.  In the real world you can at least TRY to rationalize why someone isn't making time for you (work, family obligations, etc.) but here there are NO distractions.  Like, none.  If a person wants to spend time with someone, they can literally spend the entire day together.  No excuses.

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I think the problem with Dean- now that we have sort of established they know who the entire cast is going back to filming, just maybe not when they will appear- is I think he actually was into Kristina- but then found out "DLO" would be coming and wanted to be with her more... but he also didn't want to lose his rose/backup (Kristina) because who knows when she would appear/if she would be interested in him (I remember him telling someone he thought it was a long shot she'd ask him on a date but would definitely go if asked). Therefore he has vaguely distanced himself from Kristina- it is obvious to us as viewers- but I think in the moment she was genuinely not understanding what was happening- he still wants her in his pocket! Why would he even be cuddling with her at the bonfire if he was done and moved on 100%? He's a jerk. I also have a soft spot for Kristina because of her backstory and I enjoyed her on Nick's season and genuinely want her to be happy which means probably dating out of this mess of a franchise.

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I love husker's summation of Dean's conversation and "dating style." "well, I don't know, you're being emotional, I'm going to roll around on the floor and not look at you, now I'm taking a shower" Yeah, Dean really did roll around and then roll off to "take a shower" instead of keeping company with Christina. But she gives him her rose anyway, and he's all glowing and huggy and OH SO SWEET to her then. Geezy pete. He's really playing her, even if he's not that good of a player. Maybe he always just gets by on looks? If he really wanted to "take a step back," why not say NO THANKS to the rose. Of course, no one ever does that, do they. As for Raven, she has a southern accent, which is ambrosia to men. It clouds their thinking. It's also sad some women gave out their rose because some guy "deserves to be there so he can MEET SOMEONE!"

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Seeing Dean on BIP makes me question exactly what it was that Rachel saw in him that got him into the Final Four.  I think she was only into Bryan and Peter, but thought she could help "save" Dean (from his family issues) and Eric (from    his "I've never been in love" history).  She's mentioned that she usually goes after guys who need to be "fixed" so that would fit her pattern.

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1 hour ago, seacliffsal said:

Okay, even though the show came on after the President's speech, my DVR still cut off at 10:00, so I missed a half-hour.  I do have some gaps in what I was able to watch.

However, I disagree a bit about Dean.  I do agree that he is immature-and as a result he probably thought just backing off was enough to let Kristina know he wasn't that interested in her.  Interestingly, it was the same strategy Amanda used with Alex and all of the women jumped on the 'how can he not figure out she's not interested in him' bandwagon, but when it came to Dean and Christina, they interpret it differently.  Dean also (last week) told Christina that she should date someone else if asked.  Then, it finally came to his realization that he had to be a bit more forthcoming and told her that they should take a step back (last night).  In fact, he purposefully told her BEFORE the rose ceremony so that she could choose someone else if she wanted.  I think he's been pretty clear that although he likes her, he's really not that invested in this relationship.  I wasn't able to see the last 30 minutes (again, DVR cut-off...) so can't speak to what happened then.  But, I do feel that he has been trying to let her know that he wasn't as interested in her as me may have been during the production shutdown.  It happens.  Many of us (well, at least me) have been drawn to someone and thought we really liked that person...until we got to know them a little bit more.  The kind thing is to let them know, which I think Dean did before the rose ceremony.  He even told her that he didn't want to wait until after the rose ceremony as then it would look like he used her for her rose.  So, although I don't want him as the Bachelor, I don't think he was leading her on.  I missed the birthday cake fiasco, but I would probably have fallen for the producers' "ah, would you give this to her..." line thinking I was doing something nice and not realizing that I was unintentionally hurting someone.  Yes, I can be a bit dim myself...

This might have been after your DVR cut off, but I remember it was kind of vague and immatue and more awkward than douchey UNTIL he came back from his date. He went and cuddled up with Kristina again and she asked how the date was and he said he was "excited to get back and hang out with you" or something, and said "there was a peck" when they actually full on made out haha. He purposely made Kristina think he still liked her because he was too immature to tell her the truth (or he wants her as a backup). That's when it went past the point of "oh he's letting her down easy" and ended up in 9th grade douche territory.

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Ohhh, huskerj12, this really helps me!  I did miss the date-the last thing shown was Jasmine and Alexis fake fighting, so I missed the whole date and after effects.  Thanks again for summarizing it for me!

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Jasmine and Alexis fighting can fill my TV screen anytime. Along with teasing Derek and Taylor from their spot in the hot tub. That was hilarious.

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5 hours ago, scribe95 said:

I think Danielle M the nurse is beautiful. She seems intelligent and not as fake but maybe gives off a buddy vibe rather than romantic? Too bad. 

 

She's also the oldest chick there and low energey. If that blank, Ashley I, was there, she would be making fun of how old DaniM's eggs are.

 

I hafta say that Iggy may be the most unattractive dude to ever appear on this show if you take into account BOTH looks AND personality. Only that meathead Mikey T from last yr could match him but at least Mikey had a certain affability that Iggy cannot even ape. Good riddence.

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My feelings on Dean during the Bachelorette -immature head case.

My feelings on Dean during Bachelor Pad-immature bro-douche. Hope he's not the bachelor

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Oh my GOSH, you guys. I was flipping channels last night and saw the opening credits for this show. It's even cheesier than I thought it would be! The presentation of the low-rent actors contestants on the show reminded me of The Love Boat for some reason. I couldn't bear to watch any more.

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On 8/21/2017 at 6:24 PM, saber5055 said:

Oh, man, Dean, what a loser you are. Here's hoping he goes home. IMO, Dean is the worst guy there. Christina should give her rose to AJ.

I don't know who AJ is but I agree.

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14 minutes ago, woodscommaelle said:

I don't know who AJ is but I agree.

AJ is Adam's dummy, which is also known as Adam, Jr.

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It's weird how, coming off the Bachelor/ette,  where one person is dating a dozen or more people, on BiP, they lose their shit over someone "dating" 2 or more people. 

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3 hours ago, backformore said:

It's weird how, coming off the Bachelor/ette,  where one person is dating a dozen or more people, on BiP, they lose their shit over someone "dating" 2 or more people. 

It is indeed funny but to them, it's within the "rules" to date/sleep with multiple people on the Bachelor/ette. On BIP, there are no rules so they apply real life rules.

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Oh my GOSH, you guys. I was flipping channels last night and saw the opening credits for this show. It's even cheesier than I thought it would be! The presentation of the low-rent actorscontestants on the show reminded me of The Love Boat for some reason. I couldn't bear to watch any more

I am 100% sure they do that to be funny/tongue in cheek.  They know this show is cheesy.

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On 8/22/2017 at 7:23 AM, alexa said:

I am not the biggest fan of this show, but this season really has nothing going for it.  Very few people are even trying to date, and those that are really aren't that impressive either.  Is it just a group of people that don't click, or did all of them just come to hang out and talk with their own gender?  lol

It seems to me that the hiatus took a toll in a couple of ways: 1) It gave them time to explore the possibilities with their castmates outside the show, and 2) It put a real damper on the "playing the game" aspect of things. They had a lecture from CH about drinking and hooking up, and now it's like a bad college party. I feel like the guys who go on this show are usually more there for hooking up, and the girls are there for the potential serious relationship, but now the show has decided that the only "right" reason to be there is to find a "real" relationship. And none of these guys want to be stuck in a "relationship" with any of the girls there, when their preferred potential-partner might be waiting in the wings.

The guys see these women as traps. If they stay with the original girl, they miss their shot at The One, and if they move on from the original girl, they're a jerk. See: Matt & Jasmine for instance vs Dean & Kristina. When Matt & Jasmine are talking, all I see is the thought bubble over Matt's head reading "Help! How do I get out of this without seeming like Dean!?" He tried to talk her out of seeing herself in a relationship with him, but she wouldn't hear it, so now he's stuck.

On 8/22/2017 at 8:24 AM, Rainsong said:

The original objective of the show wasn't necessarily love/marriage...it was merely Bachelor Pad decamped to a cheaper Mexico locale (no union wage scale abroad).  Bachelor Pad had its own vibe that was more honest:  the cast members had pretended to be choirboys and girls for Bachelor/Bachelorette seasons but they attended an alcohol-fueled reunion, sparks flew and their true horny selves were revealed with the randiest and raunchiest sent to the Pad.  Frankly, 25-year-old single persons who aren't more interested in physical encounters than emotional ones (at least initially) are more than a bit suspect but a surfeit of these emotionally vulnerable types are chosen for BIP.

The idea of permanent couples, even proposals and marriage, resulting from BIP fell into the laps of the producers and they obviously decided to run with it.  

But the problem is twofold:

1) One Bachelor presented with 25 Bachelorettes (or vice versa) will almost certainly be strongly attracted to or couple up with at least one of them through sheer force of numbers.

2) If a roughly equal number of males and females are stuck in an isolated place and most of them find they are incompatible with any available member of the opposite sex then there is more chaff than wheat.  Making matters worse, the early couples will do a Derek/Taylor and keep their heads down - literally, in this case, as they cuddle on a bed and say next to nothing as they await the next suspense-free event (date, rose ceremony, etc.).   It makes for terrible television.

In sum, the setup is ill-suited to the outcome but that hasn't stopped the production from trying to recapture lightning in a bottle.

This. ^ And by trying to force this show into the "heading to proposal" direction, they've shot themselves in the foot. Most guys are willing to have a temporary, two-or-three week relationship, if the potential for hooking-up is there. But now the show is so heavily weighted toward "engagement" that the guys are holding themselves back, waiting for The One.

21 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

Women have given out roses as friends before, it's either that or they have to go home. It would be nice if they could just not give out a rose and still stay but I haven't see it happen so I guess it isn't allowed. I do think this is the first time I have seen so many disinterested people. Outside of Taylor and Derek and possibly Kristina, no one seems interested in any one else. I'm a straight woman so my opinion doesn't really count, but I think Danielle M (The nurse) is really prettty and seems nice but no one is interested. I know she has a baby voice but I don't think it is put on. Raven seems to be the belle of the ball and I don't get it at all..  She has a nice figure, but I think her face looks kind of squashed and she doesn't seem to have a great personality. 

These guys have never watched "A Beautiful Mind", clearly. They're all focused on the Queen Bee.

The women could help themselves by coordinating with each other about which set of guys to bring along, and as a group coming up with an actual strategy about handling them, teasing the men just enough to get them interested, but staying away from the "we're a couple" talk. But all they do is cry.

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The show is funny because they showcase all these marriages that have taken place over the years as an example of what a success story "The process" is, but really what's going on is each year, there is a new pool of 30 males and 30 females introduced into the Bachelor Family and over the course of 17 years this has produced about 8 marriages.  I think MTV Real World Alums have a similar marriage ratio for their cast pool.  It's just a statistical probability that if the cast all meet at parties, events, and reunion shows some relationships will randomly happen.

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On 8/22/2017 at 6:17 AM, Riplet68 said:

 

I want Wells to be next bachelor, but I wanted him to be it on Nicks season

Totally with you on this. I think Wells would be a great Bachelor... 

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On 8/21/2017 at 10:10 PM, Rabithed said:

Yeah, even that's a stretch! I think Derek is the best looking (but he's taken). 

My pick is Ben Z. I don't find Dean attractive, mostly due to his awful personality. 

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Sad thing is, I just watched this last night and I'm trying to picture the guys, which ones do I think look the best, and I can hardly remember what most of them look like. They are all pretty generic. I know I like Ben Z because he's a big guy with dark hair and some stubble. That appeals to me. I know I don't like Dean because he's kind of smarmy looking to me. I know I don't like Robby because that hair is ridiculous, though otherwise I think he's good looking, but I can't get past that hair! Diggy I like because the glasses make him stand out. No clue what Derek looks like other than he's the other half of Taylor. Looked him up. yes, he's cute. I like Vinnie, I thing his personality helps his looks. Of course I would have pulled a Danielle and made a bee line for Wells myself. 

For the chicks, they are mostly fake books and ratty extensions. I think Kristina is beautiful. Danielle who just left is very girl next door pretty. The rest are pretty cheap looking. 

Not the best looking crop of losers. 

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Finally found the time to watch this. Oh man. Dean was wishy-washy for most of it, and Kristina probably should have clued in by then, although he does throw her just enough bones to keep her on the hook. But that bit with the cake? Yikes, man, that was cooooooold. Even if you're not into someone and can't be enough of a grown up to say so explicitly, to dis her like that in front of everyone? Either he's completely clueless about how that came across or he's a 100% raging asshole. Neither are good qualities in a partner, and Kristina should move the hell on. She deserves better. Anyone deserves better.

Also, I still don't know how anyone can look at him and not see David Silver.

The guys angling for roses was hilarious. You ignore the women for days to bro out with each other, and then, suddenly, at the pre-ceremony "cocktail party" (isn't this whole experience basically just a giant cocktail party?), you want to tell them how much they mean to you and how amazing they are and what a great connection you think you can have? The bemused looks on pretty much all the women's faces through this were truly comedy gold. And I totally agree with whoever said that Iggy's Jewish blessing thing was... dubious, at best. I feel like you really need to know someone better and know more about what their relationship with their religion is before you do something like that. And maybe never do it in such an obvious ploy to try and wheedle something out of them.

Am I the only one kind of shipping Jack Stone and Alexis? I love her, and I feel like there's maybe a little more of him than we got to see on Rachel's season. There, he was dull dull dull, but here it seems that he's at least self aware enough to poke fun at himself coming across a little as a serial killer and whatnot. I think there might be some underlying quirk there. I want to see more of them together.

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9 minutes ago, kingshearte said:

Am I the only one kind of shipping Jack Stone and Alexis? I love her, and I feel like there's maybe a little more of him than we got to see on Rachel's season. There, he was dull dull dull, but here it seems that he's at least self aware enough to poke fun at himself coming across a little as a serial killer and whatnot. I think there might be some underlying quirk there. I want to see more of them together.

I'd like to see them together too.  I think Jack Stone saw the footage of himself on the Bachelorette and realized how he looked on that date with Rachel.  He was probably embarrassed that he did, in fact, look like a serial killer.  He seems to have a good sense of humor. 

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One thing I noticed with this episode is that the "likes" are flying like never before. Especially from the women.

I like Ben, he´s very handsome and a hot guy.  I love how he basically came to paradise looking for a mom for the little puppy he left behind.  If I was a dog person I´d be so in love with Ben by now. He´s 10 times hotter than Adam, what was Raven thinking dumping Ben for him...

And Dean, yuck, I´m embarrassed for thinking you were so great. Kristina should be glad that he´s into someone else instead of crying about it. She´s free!!!

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21 hours ago, halkatla said:

One thing I noticed with this episode is that the "likes" are flying like never before. Especially from the women.

I like Ben, he´s very handsome and a hot guy.  I love how he basically came to paradise looking for a mom for the little puppy he left behind.  If I was a dog person I´d be so in love with Ben by now. He´s 10 times hotter than Adam, what was Raven thinking dumping Ben for him...

And Dean, yuck, I´m embarrassed for thinking you were so great. Kristina should be glad that he´s into someone else instead of crying about it. She´s free!!!

Yes, the likes and the up voices always stand out to me, not to mention the you and I used improperly ALL OF IT CONSTANTLY!

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