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Past Seasons Talk: From Seattle Grace to Grey Sloan Memorial Hospital

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For me, the show was great (meaning I could, and do, watch those episodes over and over) until Denny died at the end of S2. Then it jumped the shark so fast I still can't believe it. What the hell happened?*

 

It was the aftermath of Izzie cutting the LVAD. I thought KH more than earned her Emmy, but Izzie should have been fired. I could never buy her as a surgeon (or even working in the hospital) after that point. And then Meredith made the Chief her bitch, and then we have a prom (WTF?) as an excuse to see everyone in eveningwear. Suddenly the inmates were running the asylum. Without the sense that the interns had something to learn (and most importantly, something to LOSE), it became Hormones and Hijinks in a Hospital.

 

There have been a few strong episodes and sequences of episodes, especially in S6: the intro of the Mercy Westers (I Saw What I Saw), the lead-up to the shooting, (which was OTT at that point but still compelling) but mostly it's been forgettable-to-horrible. And the Horrible List is long (and memorable): the ferry crash, the new interns working under the 2nd year residents, Gizzie, dead Denny, the Board, the plane crash. I could go on.

 

I still enjoy the actors (except CS) and some of the characters (although very few), and I loathe others, but at this point I watch with VERY low expectations.

 

*I've always wondered about this... My theory is that the critical success of the show up until that point allowed Shonda to take control from some of the experienced people that ABC had working with her, like Peter Horton and Mark Gordon. And then she went hard in the soap-opera direction.

Edited by Tuleh2
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My theory is that the critical success of the show up until that point allowed Shonda to take control from some of the experienced people that ABC had working with her, like Peter Horton and Mark Gordon. And then she went hard in the soap-opera direction.

Yes! I've always thought this. In the early days, there were others who could push back against Shonda's worst ideas. Once she got free rein, things started to go downhill quickly.  I remember a quote from PD in relation to the musical ep. He said something about Shonda having lots of ideas, some better than others, and now having the power to make any of them happen. Seemed like he was trying to be diplomatic about it, but it was no secret that he opposed that whole thing -- I really respected him for refusing to sing in it, especially after I saw it!

 

These days, it feels like the junior varsity is putting Grey's together. Shonda's been distracted with her shiny new projects, most of the original creative team has moved on, and it seems those who've stayed have gotten promoted to writing, directing and producing roles they may or may not be ready for.

 

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As I still try to sort out my own personal sentiments, I'd like to pose a question: Is the general consensus that the series' post-S2 trajectory has been continual decline, or do you feel that there have their been seasonal peaks and valleys with regard to quality? In other words, is every season a little bit worse than the one that came before -- or is it more complicated than that?

I feel like there are definitely peaks and valleys across the whole series and even within seasons.  I started to break it down by season, but I could have written a novel so i'll try and sum it up.  

 

I think almost every season has an excellent arc somewhere in there, and despite some of the craziness always has some redeeming quality.  Probably one of my favorite slow building arcs in the entire series is Gary Clark and the shooting (seems kind of weird to say that- but if you watch the entire back end of the season it really builds well).  I just, this past weekend, fell down the rabbit hole of season 7-8ish to rewatch some of the trial/chief resident stuff ( and confirmed that I still hate it) but eventually ended up watching the plane crash and into season 9.  The plane crash on the surface is eye roll worthy and I admit to to laughing at some of the dialogue.  However, just rewatching it now I realize it really is excellently acted and directed all around.  I really feel their fear and pain (or maybe I'm just over invested?).  Anyway, after the crash, I was legitimately hooked (again) on the beginning of season 9.  The first 7 or 8 episodes are really fantastic all around.  Of course, that season eventually goes downhill with the whole Pegasus stuff, then buying the hospital, etc.  

 

So to sum it up, I agree with the first part of your question that each season definitely has its peaks and valleys.  

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 The plane crash on the surface is eye roll worthy and I admit to to laughing at some of the dialogue.  However, just rewatching it now I realize it really is excellently acted and directed all around.  I really feel their fear and pain (or maybe I'm just over invested?).

Personally, I feel that acting has really never been this show's problem. There are and have been some excellent actors on this show who have done wonders with some truly ridiculous material sometimes, which is really the only way you can have disaster after absurd disaster and have it be, yes, a little eyeroll-inducing, but mostly surprisingly compelling.

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Yes! I've always thought this. In the early days, there were others who could push back against Shonda's worst ideas. Once she got free rein, things started to go downhill quickly.  I remember a quote from PD in relation to the musical ep. He said something about Shonda having lots of ideas, some better than others, and now having the power to make any of them happen. Seemed like he was trying to be diplomatic about it, but it was no secret that he opposed that whole thing -- I really respected him for refusing to sing in it, especially after I saw it!

 

These days, it feels like the junior varsity is putting Grey's together. Shonda's been distracted with her shiny new projects, most of the original creative team has moved on, and it seems those who've stayed have gotten promoted to writing, directing and producing roles they may or may not be ready for.

 

Ah, the musical! I swear you can see Ellen Pompeo rolling her eyes when Meredith and Derek are in the on-call room kissing and singing, heh. That episode certainly has its moments, though. Usually when people aren't singing. Arizona crying at Callie's bedside and Meredith breaking down in the elevator are wonderful, and Addison telling Lucy to stop making excuses for herself is a thing of beauty. (I liked Lucy, but Addison's bluntness was great).

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Ah, the musical! I swear you can see Ellen Pompeo rolling her eyes when Meredith and Derek are in the on-call room kissing and singing, heh. 

 

 

Yes! I've always thought this. In the early days, there were others who could push back against Shonda's worst ideas. Once she got free rein, things started to go downhill quickly.  I remember a quote from PD in relation to the musical ep. He said something about Shonda having lots of ideas, some better than others, and now having the power to make any of them happen. Seemed like he was trying to be diplomatic about it, but it was no secret that he opposed that whole thing -- I really respected him for refusing to sing in it, especially after I saw it!

 

These days, it feels like the junior varsity is putting Grey's together. Shonda's been distracted with her shiny new projects, most of the original creative team has moved on, and it seems those who've stayed have gotten promoted to writing, directing and producing roles they may or may not be ready for.

 

So agree!

I so admire Dempsey and Oh for having the guts to stand up to Shonda and not to sing in this laughable musical episode.They were the only ones who didn´t sing. When the characters suddenly start singing out of nowhere throughout the episode - one HAS to laugh. 

Personally, I feel that acting has really never been this show's problem. There are and have been some excellent actors on this show who have done wonders with some truly ridiculous material sometimes, which is really the only way you can have disaster after absurd disaster and have it be, yes, a little eyeroll-inducing, but mostly surprisingly compelling.

 

Sandra was a champion in this. 

Who do you all think is the best actor/actress currently on the show? Like who really does not phone in one episode,but really delivers as an artist for each scene?

 

For me personally in S11 I like the performances of Pompeo, McCreary, Dempsey /in the few episodes we have seen him/ and James Pickens.

Edited by Season5OwenHuntfan

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Definite peaks and valleys.

 

Season 3 had it's great moments, and overall quality was much higher than season 4. Season 4 was one of the worst seasons, imo.  Season 5, they seemed to find their footing again to some degree. Season 6 had bad moments and brilliant moments.  It's biggest problem, to me, was cast bloat with all the Mercy Westers.  The shooting helped solve that (sorry, but true).  

 

However, I don't think the show has had anything resembling a high since the plane crash.  It was poorly done. It ruined so many characters and the paths they could take.  And since then we got the new residents - no thank you. 

 

It really doesn't even feel like the same show.

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I think the beginning of season 6 is pretty  strong I think it helps that they had to be creative to help fit Ellen's pregnancy. Derrick's tumor episode/I Saw What I Saw are some of my favorite episodes.

 

I think a huge problem since season 9 is the show hasn't been very funny. Capshaw who is one of the better comic actresses was saddled with too many dramatic scenes. I think Arizona loosing her leg was a big mistake in hindsight. I don't find SaRA very good at comic scenes (IMO) and they started giving her more comic scenes since season 9 so those have always fallen flat for me. I think SaRA is great at drama though.

 

I'm re watching the whole buying of the hospital storyline and Callie comes off so unlikeable. I really hate how she didn't even talk to Arizona privatley first before approaching Derrick/Meredith.

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While I agree that the musical episode was a bad idea and a bit cringeworthy, I have to hand it to the actors who did participate for putting themselves out there and risking ridicule. I have no problem with those who didn't participate either, but I'm not sure that then criticizing it publicly was the kindest/best/generous thing to do when so many people (co-workers) worked so hard on it and, again, put themselves out there. Maybe they had fun with it, or maybe they didn't feel that they had the clout to say no.

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While I agree that the musical episode was a bad idea and a bit cringeworthy, I have to hand it to the actors who did participate for putting themselves out there and risking ridicule. I have no problem with those who didn't participate either, but I'm not sure that then criticizing it publicly was the kindest/best/generous thing to do when so many people (co-workers) worked so hard on it and, again, put themselves out there. Maybe they had fun with it, or maybe they didn't feel that they had the clout to say no.

 

You´ve got a point there, they all must have worked hard,even preparing to perform the songs, not just learning lines, but still the concept of a medical show being turned into a musical is nonsensical. I´m glad at least in this case Dempsey and Oh actually said/didn´t do what they truly felt was not right for them - honest brutal truth,no white lies. You know what I mean?

Edited by Season5OwenHuntfan
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While I agree that the musical episode was a bad idea and a bit cringeworthy, I have to hand it to the actors who did participate for putting themselves out there and risking ridicule. I have no problem with those who didn't participate either, but I'm not sure that then criticizing it publicly was the kindest/best/generous thing to do when so many people (co-workers) worked so hard on it and, again, put themselves out there. Maybe they had fun with it, or maybe they didn't feel that they had the clout to say no.

This. There was no need to criticize it publicly even if they didn't want to sing. That is what Sandra Oh did. I think many of the actors did have fun with it because most even participated in a charity event doing the songs again afterwards. Sandra took part even though she didn't sing. Ellen and Patrick didn't even go to that. 

 

I think there were good and bad stories in almost every season. This is my least favorite season of the show ever. I'm not sure I will be returning next year.

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I'm re watching the whole buying of the hospital storyline and Callie comes off so unlikeable

I thought the lawsuit storyline made everyone involved unlikeable. It was just another instance of the writers using short-term shock value without thinking about the long term consequences. Then they just hand wave or ret-con whatever they don't feel like dealing with. They actually do this all the time.

I´m glad at least in this case Dempsey and Oh actually said/didn´t do what they truly felt was not right for them - honest brutal truth,no white lies. You know what I mean?

And thats great for them, but like I said, maybe some other cast members felt like they didn't have the clout of SO or PD to say no, if they wanted to. Either way, to publicly criticize something that your fellow actors and the crew (who don't make as much money and who don't get a say necessarily, just seems kind of rude to me.

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Well, let's make the singing episode a metaphor for the whole show!

 

Dempsey and Oh distinguished themselves, for better or worse, from the rest of the cast.  The songs were all over the map--cringer, catchy, a couple were dull, one was dazzling.   Lexie caught me by surprise, having such a clear lovely voice--and also someone else. . .Owen?   And then Sara Ramirez singing "The Story" rocked my world.

 

(I was with a bunch of people in Norway and played a Youtube of Ramirez singing that song in concert--everyone was, like, meh?--which was embarrassing.  So I played "The Story" clip from Grey's.  Without even knowing the characters, they were still blown away by how powerful it was that she was singing the words to and about herself, deciding to live.  Ahhh, there we go.)

 

*************

For the poll question, I vote highs and lows throughout, regardless of season.    Feels like we've been in a trough for awhile, though--I'm not distracted from smug Amelia and bitchy Meredith by April/Jackson's baby pain or the fifteenth time Calzona hit the skids.  Sandra Oh playing off William Daniels in Minnesota was terrific--why didn't they do a similar off-site arc with Derek's (non-romantic) adventures in DC?

 

 

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I haven't gone back and watched it again, but I really have mixed feelings about the musical episode. On one hand, conceptually, it was pretty stupid, as musical episodes almost invariably are. I say this, BTW, as someone who was raised in the theatre, musical theatre especially, so I have no overall problems with the idea of people just bursting into song. If it's built in as part of the show from Day 1, I'm totally down with it (really enjoyed Eli Stone, while it lasted). The trouble with musical episodes of otherwise non-musical shows is that we haven't established that in this universe, random fits of singing (and sometimes dancing) is totally normal, so it comes across as just as weird as if it happened in real life. And I just don't love that.

 

On the other hand, taken outside the context of the show overall, I really enjoyed some of the performances in that episode. McKidd, Ramirez and Wilson knocked it out of the park, and Leigh's performance, while not as huge as some of the others, was really lovely. And I appreciated the fact that they did leave the heavy lifting on the singing to those who could handle it. Oh & Dempsey may have refused to do any, but if they had sung, I'm guessing it would have been something smaller, more like what Pompeo got, based on their respective abilities to do it. I did like that the ensemble nature of this cast meant that there wasn't really any one lead who simply had to have the biggest song, regardless of whether they were a strong singer. In the context of that episode, Ramirez was kind of a lead, and did take on a huge role, but I'm thinking that if she hadn't been up to it, perhaps they would have saved the musical concept for a storyline that could focus on someone else.

 

Anyway, the tl:dr version: I think musical episodes in general are kind of stupid, but I thought they did about as good a job with this one as they could have.

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However, I don't think the show has had anything resembling a high since the plane crash.  It was poorly done. It ruined so many characters and the paths they could take.  And since then we got the new residents - no thank you.

 

The plane crash itself was kind of ridiculous, but episodes immediately after had some really strong scenes.  And yes, some really weak ones - particularly with the new interns.  But I just can't with that whole lawsuit storyline; it's the most ridiculous, stupid thing to happen on this show since Izzie performed life-saving measures on a deer.  {edited to note that I pretty much pretend that the musical episode never happened}

I think there were good and bad stories in almost every season. This is my least favorite season of the show ever. I'm not sure I will be returning next year.

 

This season has killed GA for me.  I won't even be back for the next episode, let alone next year.

Edited by proserpina65
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Yes, one has to admit some actors and actresses really pulled A game talent in the musical epsiode be it Ramirez, Chyler, or KMK,but it was just a very bad gimmick -the whole episode. 

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The plane crash itself was kind of ridiculous, but episodes immediately after had some really strong scenes.  And yes, some really weak ones - particularly with the new interns.  But I just can't with that whole lawsuit storyline; it's the most ridiculous, stupid thing to happen on this show since Izzie performed life-saving measures on a deer.  {edited to note that I pretty much pretend that the musical episode never happened}

 

This season has killed GA for me.  I won't even be back for the next episode, let alone next year.

 

I agree. And the lawsuit -  sucking out life slowly,episode after episode. I feel like with Sandra Oh leaving, the show is dying a slow death.

Edited by Season5OwenHuntfan
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My problem with the musical was the attempt to ascribe some half-logic to an illogical situation that either needed to be fully explained or left completely without reason. There were songs when Callie (or her "ghost") wasn't even present, undermining the hook that the "singing" was all part of Callie's hallucinations. Part music video, part musical theatre; it just didn't add up. 

 

Also, it was a narratively ridiculous decision to do a musical episode in which the lead character had not one solo number. If Pompeo couldn't or wouldn't sing more than one line, then the episode shouldn't have happened. (Season Seven was one of those awful middle years in which Meredith got routine arcs: marriage problems, fertility problems, adoption problems, pregnancy problems. Now she's back to being more interesting.) 

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So I've watched every damn episode on Lifetime from season 5, and I've yet again missed where Cristina finds out Owen cheated.  I found part of season 8 episode 19 on youtube, which is Owen giving Cristina the details, but I have never seen her finding out, or Owen telling Meredith.  Anyone willing to fill me in?

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Oh man do I miss Cristina. I can't get through one episode of this show anymore because all I want to know is what Cristina is up to. Her time in Minnesota was great so much so I was hoping for a spin off, but I knew better. I could never actually see her at SG anymore, she's beyond that but her character was so compelling and entertaining with an actress who commanded the screen, that I feel there is more story to tell, just not at SG. Anyway....I wish I cared about the others, but I don't, except maybe Stephanie, but they don't  give her anything so.

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So I've watched every damn episode on Lifetime from season 5, and I've yet again missed where Cristina finds out Owen cheated.  I found part of season 8 episode 19 on youtube, which is Owen giving Cristina the details, but I have never seen her finding out, or Owen telling Meredith.  Anyone willing to fill me in?

Meredith found out when Owen told her because he thought she knew and she was pissed at him because she knew that Cristina did not want her to know because Cristina knew that Meredith would hate him. Meredith told Owen that Cristina did not want her to know and hate him because she was trying to forgive him, but Owen blabbed like a girl, telling all their business. I swear he really did wear the ovaries in this pairing.

 

Then when they went to take the boards that was when Meredith told her that she knew about Owen cheating.

 

One night when Owen came home Cristina was waiting up in bed for  him and she told him how she accused this nurse of sleeping with him at work and that she felt he was cheating on her. He confirmed that he was, but not with the nurse, but that woman at the bar. Then they spent like the next episode pretending they were both at home sick and he told her all the details of the one night stand with flashbacks for we the audience.

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Is it just me or does anyone else find it incredibly difficult to believe that Christina Yang, of all the characters on this show had not one, but two unplanned pregnancies.

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Is it just me or does anyone else find it incredibly difficult to believe that Christina Yang, of all the characters on this show had not one, but two unplanned pregnancies.

The 2nd one was done when Shonda got the feeling it was time to mess up Crowen forever.

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Is it just me or does anyone else find it incredibly difficult to believe that Christina Yang, of all the characters on this show had not one, but two unplanned pregnancies.

Don't even get me started on that. I'm still mad about it.

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Because I'm a glutton for punishment I'm doing a binge rewatch of GA.  Just started season 6 and these were still the days when I really liked this show.  Sure it jumped the shark a bunch, but I still cared about these people.  

A few notes:

 

Why is Lexie only a year behind Mer?  Lexie is at least 6 years younger, I know Mer took a year off which is what caused the big fight with her mother and Lexie skipped 3rd grade but it still doesn't make sense.

 

How did Lexie even get into the program?  She was set to intern at Mass Gen. until her mother died forcing her to stay in Seattle with her drunk father.  The hospital was still ranked 3rd in the nation and was supposed to be difficult to be admitted to so how did she get into the program like it was nothing?  And why didn't the Chief(who was looking out for Merrideth because it was her mother's deathbed wish) either not stop Lexie from getting into the internship or at least give Mer a headsup?

 

I hate Hahn so much I wish Buffalo Bill had killed her in that hole.

 

What happened to this show?  Why did they make everyone so unlikable?  It is painful to rewatch knowing I will later hate most of these people.

 

Did Izzie's tumor cause her to sleep with married George?  

 

Why would Merideath even think about giving her dead-beat dad a portion of her liver.  That's every abandoned kid's fantasy, to turn crap like that down.

 

I can't think of anymore at the moment.

Edited by whyjen8
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For me, the show was great (meaning I could, and do, watch those episodes over and over) until Denny died at the end of S2. Then it jumped the shark so fast I still can't believe it. What the hell happened?

 

They're airing the show in syndication over here, one episode every day, and we're currently at the end of season 2 (3 eps to go). It really used to be such a good show. Sure, a hospital soap, but a genuinely gripping one. And watching the early seasons again has reminded how the patient-of-the-week storylines used to be incredibly heartbreaking - remember the mother who had cancer (played by Laurie Metcalf) and lied about it to her teenage daughter until Alex told her how that was the worst thing she could do? The scene where she's finally coming clean about it by sharing random bits of advice until her daughter understands why?

Or the car crash with the very southern family where the pregnant young wife dies? Frances Fisher as the mother, telling the doctors "y'all just don't need to whisper"? (Sadly that was also the "Callie doesn't wash her hands after using the bathroom?" episode, but all the rest is great.)

 

That episode also has the scene that kinda stopped me from ever really rooting for Meredith and Derek again, though. He's such an ass, and she gives that awesome "You don't get to call me a whore!" speech. I couldn't quite buy them getting back together after that.

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 the patient-of-the-week storylines used to be incredibly heartbreaking

Oh yeah. For a while, I was consistently astonished at how good this show was about making me care enough about people who I'd never seen before and never would again (not to mention were fictional) enough that I'd cry at like, every other episode (and let's not even talk about the ugly crying that happened with the train crash episode). Now, though, aside from getting slightly misty about Jackson & April's baby, I don't even remember the last time this show made me cry.

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I just saw the flash mob proposal and although I didn't like Mathew, I was happy to see April treated so well.  She's been kicked around by everyone, and the butt of every joke.  Seeing a whole group of people willing to embarrass themselves, and watching the viewers respond by clapping - it made me feel good for the character.

 

And as soapy as it was, I really love the scene of Meredith talking "Happy" through her exploratory surgery, and telling him she would pass out soon, and if she coded, call it by nine minutes.  Ellen had to act that scene with her facial expressions alone, and at one point she had a single tear drip down her face.  Re-watching, I realized that was the episode that ended my Meredith-hate.

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I'm re-watching season one for the first time since it originally aired.  It actually makes it more poignant, now knowing that Derek will die.  What does tarnish it though, is knowing about Addison.

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Is it just me or does anyone else find it incredibly difficult to believe that Christina Yang, of all the characters on this show had not one, but two unplanned pregnancies.

Say what now???  I only remember the infinity arc when Yang and Owen (and we) were TORTURED over her pregnancy--when Meredith kept going with her for the termination and Yang wouldn't go through with it.

 

When else?

Edited by candall
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With Burke, end of season 1/beginning of season 2.  She had an ectopic pregnancy and Addison had to remove one of her tubes to save her life.

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When else?

She got pregnant by Burke in the first season, had a miscarriage (ectopic pregnancy) in the 2nd. So she got pregnant by Owen despite having lost a fallopian tube (never mind being sure SHE NEVER WANTED KIDS.). Thin, huh?

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I love Yang.  She's so brilliant, and two accidental pregnancies is so uncharacteristically . . .not brilliant, I must have blocked it.

 

I went to IMDb and, yes, there it is.  S01:E08.  "Christina is conflicted about her pregnancy."

 

Coincidentally, "Christina collapses in the operating room" and "Christina is determined to get back to work despite not being fully recovered"  are both playing on Lifetime tomorrow.

 

I'm going to watch, but please, PLEASE don't let me get sucked into Lifetime Grey's again.  I just recently got three hours of my day back when Yang went to Switzerland.

Edited by candall
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I've been watching the early season episodes on Lifetime the past few days.  I've noticed more the banter between Bailey and Derek.  After seeing these episodes and knowing what happens this season, I am just as interested in seeing her reaction to the Derek news as I am Amelia and the other characters.

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I've been marathoning Greys on netflix. The plane crash/lawsuit really, imo, jumps the shark. It's like... I'm watching the other ones and bought bomb guy, shooter, and some of the other crazy stories. It was the plane crash and lawsuit that was just so ridiculous. It reeked of SR making fun or commenting against the ABC budget cuts, then the push that we must love Jackson and April. Also, Owen just became ridiculous. But the musical episode, the Sloane baby story or him having that teenager was horrible too. I liked Mark Sloane better with Addison or in the beginning with Lexie. I also hated what they did to Bailey later on because now she's kinda unlikeable.

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I've watched this show maybe a handful of times since the beginning, but Patrick Dempsey's exit intrigued my so I've been binge watching the episodes backwards from that, so I've gotten up to Yang leaving. I've been skimming the boards in lots of places and have a q: why does everyone seem to hate Amelia? I like her,  granted i've never watched Private Practice. Was she insufferable there?

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I've watched this show maybe a handful of times since the beginning, but Patrick Dempsey's exit intrigued my so I've been binge watching the episodes backwards from that, so I've gotten up to Yang leaving. I've been skimming the boards in lots of places and have a q: why does everyone seem to hate Amelia? I like her,  granted i've never watched Private Practice. Was she insufferable there?

Yes.

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Was she insufferable there?

To a lesser degree but she did have a good storyline there. She had her bad moments though. 

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I'm very much speculating here, but I think perhaps whatever was going on behind the scenes with Dempsey meant that they felt they had to build her character up in a big way and in a big hurry that made no sense and was just too much.  Contrast that with Maggie, a new character given a slow build over the season, who went from being someone annoying at first, to someone (at least it appears to me) that the fans generally now accept.

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On re-watching season two, I'm reminded how far Alex has come. What an asshole. A woman who's having her seventh child begs Addison to secretly tie her tubes. Super Catholic hubby would not allow it. Addison does, and Alex tells hubby to get a lawyer. Not because Alex found it morally wrong, but because he's an asshole. And don't even get me started that a woman needs her husband's permission for surgery on her own body.

Then, Alex is jealous of Denny, so he tells him he's Izzie's boyfriend. Izzie dumps Alex and tells him Denny is ten times the man Alex will ever be. Alex responds by eviscerating George - just humiliating him in front of everyone. I forgot how he lashed out at people.

And Derek - ugh! Major asshole. Lying about not being married. He goes back to Addison, but doesn't try at all. He spends all his time sniffing after Meredith, insisting they could be friends. Then after finding out about the vet, he's giving her the cold shoulder and yelling at her in front of a patient. I think this results in the - you don't get to call me a whore speech.

And one of the most disgusting things - not successfully having sex with Addison until he finds out about Finn. Then he rushes home and is all over her. Revenge sex. Sex wth the wife to punish the former mistress. I'm reminded why I never cared for him.

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I've watched this show maybe a handful of times since the beginning, but Patrick Dempsey's exit intrigued my so I've been binge watching the episodes backwards from that, so I've gotten up to Yang leaving. I've been skimming the boards in lots of places and have a q: why does everyone seem to hate Amelia? I like her, granted i've never watched Private Practice. Was she insufferable there?

Not nearly as much. She went through a lot - addiction, getting caught stealing meds from the practice, finding boyfriend dead in her bed, and giving birth to a brainless baby.

On GA, they almost ignore her fiancé at the end of PP, and act like the druggie boyfriend was the love of her life. Add in the power struggle with Derek, and she's just unlikeable.

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On re-watching season two, I'm reminded how far Alex has come. What an asshole. A woman who's having her seventh child begs Addison to secretly tie her tubes. Super Catholic hubby would not allow it. Addison does, and Alex tells hubby to get a lawyer. Not because Alex found it morally wrong, but because he's an asshole. And don't even get me started that a woman needs her husband's permission for surgery on her own body.

Then, Alex is jealous of Denny, so he tells him he's Izzie's boyfriend. Izzie dumps Alex and tells him Denny is ten times the man Alex will ever be. Alex responds by eviscerating George - just humiliating him in front of everyone. I forgot how he lashed out at people.

I kind of miss this Alex, tbh. I wouldn't want him back full time just glimpses every now and then.

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I'm watching early season three.  I've always disliked Derek's handling of the affair, but when I first watched the season I didn't know and like Addison yet, so I don't remember being angry with Meredith.  Well I'm angry with Meredith.   The fallout to sex on prom night just sucks.  He let's Addison find the panties in his tux.  He mentally plans to leave Addison and be with Meredith, but fails to tell Addison.  He's gutless, utterly gutless.  Even Webber tells him he let Addison find the panties on purpose.  And let me add, I'm not sure he ever apologized for basically calling Meredith a whore.  Meredith just chose to forgive him.

 

Then, Meredith and Derek are in the elevator together, and she walks out - glowing and floating on air.  They do rounds in front of a patient who calls them out on having sex, and she just giggles, without an ounce of shame.  Even when Bailey points out the XL panties on the bulletin board (as if they were Meredith's size), she's barely embarrassed.  Neither of them express five seconds of regret about Addison, or think of what Addison is going through.  It's cold, and it's shameless. Then Callie walked in on them about to kiss - again.  So let me add heartless to the list.

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I agree Derek handled the Addison situation terribly. I don't feel like that was ever acknowledged enough on the show, everyone kept going on about what a good guy he was.

 

Alex also was extremely nasty. I especially don't like how he always picked on the weakest people, mainly George and April. That scene in the locker room with George and some of his attacks on April in season 8 are really brutal. I know he has come a long way now but I don't think he was called out on it enough, they often used his past to excuse his behaviour. 

Edited by Marni
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I'm watching the Lifetime reruns, and it occurs to me that Shonda has issues.  I've read comments that Shonda has mother issues, but I think she has parent issues.   This show is loaded with character's whose parents were abusive, mentally ill, neglectful, drugs addicts, distant, domineering, abandoning, or a combo.

 

1.  Meredith:

Mother:  Abusive, neglectful, mentally ill

Father:  Abandoning

 

2.  Alex:

Mother:  Mentally ill, neglectful

Father:  Drug addict, abusive

 

3.  Izzie

Mother:  Neglectful

Father:  Have no idea - was he ever mentioned?

 

4.  Christina

Mother:  Distant

 

5.  Jackson

Mother:  Domineering

 

6.  Burke

Mother:  Domineering

 

7.  Callie

Father:  Disowns her for either divorce or bisexuality (can't remember)

Mother:  Refuses to bond with grandchild due to daughter's sexuality.  Refuses to attend wedding for same.

 

It's not lost on me that it's the two black mothers who are domineering, but the show catches a break because it's headed by a black woman.

 

The best parents - by far - are George's.   But even George's father had difficulty understanding him and accepting him for being different than the rest of them.  Lexie had loving parents, until her mother died and her father became an alcoholic mess.  Am I missing anyone?

 

 

 

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I don't subscribe to the line of thinking that because writers have characters have issues, that means that they must have issues in their own personal lives.  I think writers make characters flawed and damaged to tell interesting stories. Happy/shiny people do not a dramatic show make.

 

I mean, what kind of issues do the writers of Game of Thrones have because of the rape scenes?  Outlander with male rape story just aired?   Why aren't they questioned about their "issues"?  

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I seem to recall that Cristina was reasonably solid with her father, but then he died in front of her. And, to be fair, Callie's dad did ultimately come around.

 

I don't subscribe to the line of thinking that because writers have characters have issues, that means that they must have issues in their own personal lives.  I think writers make characters flawed and damaged to tell interesting stories. Happy/shiny people do not a dramatic show make.

 

I mean, what kind of issues do the writers of Game of Thrones have because of the rape scenes?  Outlander with male rape story just aired?   Why aren't they questioned about their "issues"?  

I'm not sure I buy it either, but I think when something comes up super frequently, people start to wonder. But for the record, people definitely question GRRM's issues as they relate to the constant rape in those stories.

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I'm watching the Lifetime reruns, and it occurs to me that Shonda has issues.  I've read comments that Shonda has mother issues, but I think she has parent issues.   This show is loaded with character's whose parents were abusive, mentally ill, neglectful, drugs addicts, distant, domineering, abandoning, or a combo.

 

1.  Meredith:

Mother:  Abusive, neglectful, mentally ill

Father:  Abandoning

 

2.  Alex:

Mother:  Mentally ill, neglectful

Father:  Drug addict, abusive

 

3.  Izzie

Mother:  Neglectful

Father:  Have no idea - was he ever mentioned?

 

4.  Christina

Mother:  Distant

 

5.  Jackson

Mother:  Domineering

 

6.  Burke

Mother:  Domineering

 

7.  Callie

Father:  Disowns her for either divorce or bisexuality (can't remember)

Mother:  Refuses to bond with grandchild due to daughter's sexuality.  Refuses to attend wedding for same.

 

It's not lost on me that it's the two black mothers who are domineering, but the show catches a break because it's headed by a black woman.

 

The best parents - by far - are George's.   But even George's father had difficulty understanding him and accepting him for being different than the rest of them.  Lexie had loving parents, until her mother died and her father became an alcoholic mess.  Am I missing anyone?

Great analysis! You are so right,Shonda has huge issues with parents, also with crappy childhood and I would also add she hates men in general. All is seen on the show.

 

Maggie´s parents were almost hard to believe,their idyllic marriage but all got screwed as well. She lived years in lies. There goes her "happy" family.

Edited by Season5OwenHuntfan
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