S02.E01: Thetans in Young Bodies

[2727]

Mirrian and Saina, two women raised together in Scientology's now defunct Cadet Org, share heartrending stories of abandonment and sexual abuse. With Leah's moral support, they both take a courageous step towards achieving justice.

Someone had fun posting this description to IMDB: Mike and Leah visit another ex-Scientologist and hear another horror story. Meanwhile off-camera David Miscavige is furious that he couldn't block the second season and adds another Leah Remini attack web site to the internet.

[2727]

The preview was already pretty wrenching and it didn't even get into the treatment the kids received in Scientology. Buy stock in Kleenex!

[Ellie Godfrey]

Only 12 minutes in and it's already horrifying.

[JAndy]

This episode is very upsetting. 

As a mother of a little girl, I cannot believe that both of the girls' mothers were unwilling  to help them. So disgusting. It's really sickening. 

[FormerMod-a1]

This episode is brutal.

[Wings]

I was hoping season 2 would show more about what they are doing to bring them down.  It does.make some sense that this cannot be exposed so as not to alert Miscavige.  

I don't want an entire season of sob stories. I get it. Horrific things happen.  And we know very well that kids have no parental presence. 

I am glad she is doing this but in was bored to tears. 

[mbaywife123]

Little Davey better get on his "Cruise" ship and head for the open sea, the shit storm is upon him and the CO$!

[mbaywife123]

4 minutes ago, wings707 said:

I was hoping season 2 would show more about what they are doing to bring them down.  It does.make some sense that this cannot be exposed so as not to alert Miscavige.  

I don't want an entire season of sob stories. I get it. Horrific things happen.  And we know very well that kids have no parental presence. 

I am glad she is doing this but in was bored to tears. 

I get legally where they are going with this, minors, statutes of limitations and all, if this is the door they have to go thru to shut the CO$ down I will proudly hold the door open for them as long as possible.

[WInterfalls]

That was brutal to watch. What those poor women went through was unconscionable. I'm glad they covered this story because those of us that have been down the rabbit hole know about some of this stuff but most people don't and it needs to be exposed. It certainly seems like they are attempting to take some action now. Go get them girl. 

[Wings]

Yes child abuse is definitely their route. Leah has talked about that being her focus.  

[Wings]

7 minutes ago, WInterfalls said:

That was brutal to watch. What those poor women went through was unconscionable. I'm glad they covered this story because those of us that have been down the rabbit hole know about some of this stuff but most people don't and it needs to be exposed. It certainly seems like they are attempting to take some action now. Go get them girl. 

There is abuse specific to Sea Org. Sexual abuse happens everywhere.  Having that take up an entire episode was disappointing.  Cover COS not caring, yes. All the details, no.  Dr Phil doess that.  Lol.  Just my opinion, of course. It bores me. I felt they were dragging the episode out with the focus on this. 

[mbaywife123]

2 minutes ago, wings707 said:

Yes child abuse is definitely their route. Leah has talked about that being her focus.  

Also the fact that minors cannot held legally responsible to or liable for any contracts signed unless they have been declared as an emancipated minor by a county, state or federal Judge or judicial decree.

[Wings]

1 minute ago, mbaywife123 said:

Also the fact that minors cannot held legally responsible to or liable for any contracts signed unless they have been declared as an emancipated minor by a county, state or federal Judge or judicial decree.

They only signed that stupid billion year contract which is stupid.   They are guilty of human trafficing. That is where she is going. 

[mbaywife123]

1 minute ago, wings707 said:

They only signed that stupid billion year contract which is stupid.   They are guilty of human trafficing. That is where she is going. 

Yep, the billion year contract is not worth the paper it is written on. Unfortunately the children brought up in CO$ do not know this because they are programmed not to interact with the real word and real legal issues.

[Maelstrom]

Wow, that was rough. I'm not even sure what to say. The damage that CO$ has not only perpetrated but also turned a blind eye to is so incomprehensible. Kudos to Saina and Mirriam for not only coming forward but for getting out and trying to move on with their lives.

[Rowan]

How much more alone can you be made to feel in this world? Geez, those ladies had some horrible parents.

I was never much of a fan of Leah before this crusade, but, damn, if I don't admire her determination, now. You can tell she genuinely regrets being a part of all the that shadiness. 

[andromeda331]

This was hard one. Those poor girls. 

[BabyVegas]

Holy SHITBALLS, you guys. (I feel like Leah would approve of the cursing.) That was utterly insane to watch. I felt so bad for those women and I feel terrible for every time I laughed at Scientology like it was some comic book villain. Truly, they need to be stopped. While I was watching the episode, I kept wondering if Rinder knew. He never said he did and if he did know, I believe it would not be something he would do if he had it to do over. This show is so powerful because it really drives home that the good people can do awful things, given the right circumstances. But it is kind of hopeful in that it also seems to show that people who have done awful things can change. Watching that moment in the episode where he talks about being the one to commission the mom for the oil painting, I was struck by how much Mike strikes me as a damned man just trying to make amends.

This episode and the preview for the season makes me think they are going to try to go after Scientology based on their treatment of kids. It is probably the place the org has the most exposure, based on what we've seen. I hope they're successful and get Scientology gone.

[bethster2000]

I thought Mike Rinder was going to faint.  Seriously, he looked like he was in the headlights of a speeding car.

I don't think he is a bad man; he was merely a misguided and deluded one.  But still...the stuff he did in the name of that "church."  It must be brutal for him to come to terms with what he has done.

Edited August 16, 2017 by bethster2000

[jenrising]

Wow, this was a lot. Honestly, I'm happy for this show to do an episode a week until the end of time just giving Scientology's victims a chance to share their stories publicly. And for them to know that away from that toxic cult people believe them and want to help them. The more attention these stories get the more outside authorities are pressured to do the right thing. That happening is a million times more important to me than being able to see every part the work that goes into it. 

Edited August 16, 2017 by jenrising

[CindyBee]

1 hour ago, bethster2000 said:

I thought Mike Rinder was going to faint.  Seriously, he looked like he was in the headlights of a speeding car.

I'm starting to worry about his health.  All this stress can't be good for him; he's at a prime age for a heart attack. 

Best of luck to both Miriam and Saina going forward.   I had a beautiful childhood, full of love with great parents so to hear their story really affected me as they'll never be able to put what happened behind them.   And good luck to all the victims we don't know of and haven't had a chance to tell their stories but from the preview, it looks like more are coming.

[Ina123]

I'm looking forward to the interview with Paul Haggis.

[smorbie]

10 hours ago, wings707 said:

Yes child abuse is definitely their route. Leah has talked about that being her focus.  

I also hope they will do something to talk about the elder abuse as well.  I've been reading about it.  It's horrifying that these people have given their entire lives to this crock, have nothing to show for it, nowhere to go, and are ignored, punished for being slow, and basically worked to death.

9 hours ago, wings707 said:

They only signed that stupid billion year contract which is stupid.   They are guilty of human trafficing. That is where she is going. 

ohhhhhh

7 hours ago, Rowan said:

How much more alone can you be made to feel in this world? Geez, those ladies had some horrible parents.

I was never much of a fan of Leah before this crusade, but, damn, if I don't admire her determination, now. You can tell she genuinely regrets being a part of all the that shadiness. 

That's what I said.  They picked on the wrong girl.  She's a fighter and like a dog with a bone.  Good for her.  I believe she's right, God did put her on this path for a reason.

[rhys]

I missed the oil painting comment. Can someone fill in that gap?

[Lizzing]

3 minutes ago, rhys said:

I missed the oil painting comment. Can someone fill in that gap?

I'm not sure what you missed, but the gist is this: Mirriam's mother was (is?) a great oil painter and she was recruited to go to LA from Australia to paint portraits of LRH.  During the time Mirriam's mother was gone was when her father started abusing Mirriam.  Rinder commented that he was the one who picked the mother to go to LA for the paintings and he didn't even know that the mother had kids.  Leah basically said, "And you wouldn't have cared anyway," and he said that yeah, that's the point, he wouldn't have known or cared because painter mom was just another Scientologist in service of CO$; they needed a portraitist and she fit the bill and "family obligations" don't really exist in CO$.

[CindyBee]

7 minutes ago, rhys said:

I missed the oil painting comment. Can someone fill in that gap?

Miriam mom was a painter in Australia that was sent for by Mike in the early 1990s to come to LA to paint Scientology shit for some publications,  leaving her and brothers behind with the Dad.  That's when the sexual abuse began.

[bosawks]

Man, this episode had me flash-backing to when I read Under the Banner of Heaven by Jon Krakauer.

I wanted to puke at times reading that book also.........

[Whimsy]

I think that Rinder feels he needs to sit through all of these confessionals, stories, etc to try to make amends.  I don't think he'll ever feel absolved. 

I love Leah.  I may find her a bit abrasive sometimes and don't always find her "jokes" funny, and wish she'd lay off the makeup, but I respect her and admire her so much for the crusade she's taken on.

I was surprised at how many pictures Saina had.  I would think they would've somehow confiscated those because I think those could be admissible in court.  I am so glad that they are finally filing police reports.

[Ina123]

It was notable, I thought, on an episode highlighting the fact that there is no "family unit" in CO$ that Mike mentioned that his children consider him a terrible father. In Mike's words, "because I was."

 

Dang! That guy is carrying a load.

Edited August 16, 2017 by Ina123
typo

[gesundheit]

That was heartbreaking, just utterly heartbreaking. It irks me that CoS has some level of plausible deniability with Miriam's case if it's really true that they kicked her dad out of Scientology. I couldn't really follow the timeline but it was clear 2002 was long after his disclosure to them, but whatever they kicked him out for I'm sure they will claim it was because of the abuse. And they can easily say it's not systemic, it was just individual who blew off the girls' attempts to ask for help -- believe me I had some experience with this, some adults shrugged things off and said I was exaggerating so it wasn't officially institutional but a "few bad eggs" -- so it's good that Leah and Mike are taking this tack, proving a mass pattern.

[rhys]

Thank you both for the painting info. I missed that entire story! 

ETA, in my neck o' the woods, there was a commercial last note for a new movie starring Katie Holmes. Gotta love the marketing genius who thought of advertising on Leah's show.

Edited August 16, 2017 by rhys
2nd thought

[veronicamers]

11 hours ago, wings707 said:

They only signed that stupid billion year contract which is stupid.   They are guilty of human trafficing. That is where she is going. 

Yep. I've long thought this was the way to go legally. What they are doing to children (holding them under coercion, forced labor) fits the definition. 

This episode was heartbreaking. The trauma these two are so clearly going through. I mean...

I think the ranch they talked about being held at was covered in Jenna Miscavige's book. Fascinating to see all those photos. 

[TheGreenWave]

4 hours ago, bethster2000 said:

I thought Mike Rinder was going to faint.  Seriously, he looked like he was in the headlights of a speeding car.

I don't think he is a bad man; he was merely a misguided and deluded one.  But still...the stuff he did in the name of that "church."  It must be brutal for him to come to terms with what he has done.

I thought so too.  Weren't his kids in the Sea Org?  I'm wondering if he is facing the utter horror that his kids might have gone through the same kind of treatment?  If so, it was probably like hearing what his kids would say to him (if they actually left CO$)

[toodles]

I find this show endlessly fascinating.  Mike Rinder looked visibly pained to me when the girls were talking.  His kids were raised in the same environment and I can't imagine how difficult that is to live with.  He looks like he carries the weight of the world on his shoulders.

These stories break my heart.  

[WescottF1]

23 minutes ago, Ina123 said:

It was notable, I thought, on an episode highlighting the fact that there is no "family unit" in CO$ that Mike mentioned that his children consider him a terrible father. In Mike's word's, "because I was."

 

Dang! That guy is carrying a load.

I liked that he went on to add, "I was a Sea-Org father!" - that spoke volumes.

[LilWharveyGal]

16 minutes ago, veronicamers said:

I think the ranch they talked about being held at was covered in Jenna Miscavige's book. Fascinating to see all those photos. 

That's what I thought, too, but according to the experts over at Tony's site it's a different ranch.  And now I'm even more pissed off that TWO of those places ever existed.

[veronicamers]

Just now, LilWharveyGal said:

That's what I thought, too, but according to the experts over at Tony's site it's a different ranch.  And now I'm even more pissed off that TWO of those places ever existed.

Dang, how many of these places are there?!?!

[CindyBee]

37 minutes ago, toodles said:

I find this show endlessly fascinating.  Mike Rinder looked visibly pained to me when the girls were talking.  His kids were raised in the same environment and I can't imagine how difficult that is to live with.  He looks like he carries the weight of the world on his shoulders.

These stories break my heart.  

The guilt he must feel for bringing two kids into the Scientology world must be overwhelming.   I know he is getting lots of love and support now but only he can forgive himself for doing that and I don't think at this point he has and I'm not sure if he ever will.  Just heartbreaking.  

[Lugal]

That episode was brutal, but I see where Leah's going.  I'm glad that she's talking to lawyers and everything, but she's putting this out there in the public mind.  Now when people hear about Scientology they will be less likely to think about Xenu and laugh, and more about hearing Mirriam's horror story or Saina pictures of kids doing what looked like hard prison labor.  Then they think to themselves something has to be done.

Rinder's realizing how awful things really are (I know he pissed off Miscavige and spent his time in the Hole), like that clip of him in the previews saying, "what were we a part of?"

[geekgirl921]

1 hour ago, WescottF1 said:

I liked that he went on to add, "I was a Sea-Org father!" - that spoke volumes.

Yeah, I find it interesting that apparently his kids haven't made that connection. They have been made to make videos calling him out and basically saying what a terrible father he was. When I heard about those my thought was, yes, that's sort of the point of Scientology and especially the Sea Org. 

[Maelstrom]

2 hours ago, Whimsy said:

I was surprised at how many pictures Saina had.  I would think they would've somehow confiscated those because I think those could be admissible in court.  I am so glad that they are finally filing police reports.

I was surprised at how many photos Saina had, too. It's amazing she was allowed to keep a camera, and I wonder how she ever managed to get the photos developed - I doubt there were Sea Org trips to the local drugstore to drop off and pick up potentially incriminating photos. But regardless of all that, it actually made me happy to know that she had one tiny aspect of normalcy in her childhood, no matter how small - a girl taking photos of her friends.

When you think about how long these girls suffered and bore their traumas in silence and shame, with Saina admitting that she never intended to speak out, ever, it just shows how much of a difference Leah is making. And thank goodness for it.

Edited August 16, 2017 by Maelstrom

[Whimsy]

14 minutes ago, geekgirl921 said:

Yeah, I find it interesting that apparently his kids haven't made that connection. They have been made to make videos calling him out and basically saying what a terrible father he was. When I heard about those my thought was, yes, that's sort of the point of Scientology and especially the Sea Org. 

And Scientology obviously realizes that what they are doing to the family units is bad if they are using that as the reason to discredit him.  If they thought what they were doing was really and honestly the best thing, they wouldn't use that as part of their crusade to discredit people.  It's also interesting they are using being  "sexual deviants" (or whatever language they use) as another reason to discredit people when it's right in LRH's writings that it's not wrong to kiss 7 year olds romantically (blech!)

[Wings]

Did she have those photos or are they from Going Clear or another source?  I don't think they said.  Some appeared to be older pictures before her time.  

13 minutes ago, Whimsy said:

It's also interesting they are using being  "sexual deviants" (or whatever language they use) as another reason to discredit people when it's right in LRH's writings that it's not wrong to kiss 7 year olds romantically (blech!)

Yes there was one COS teacher who twaddled the blonde but the other was her dad.  The fact that COS was on the molesters side is what is relevant here.  Sexual abuse exists in every corner of out society including the Catholic church.  

I thought this was a boring and wasted episode.  

Please get Nick Lister to speak out.  Check his interviews out on youtube.  He is a defector and strong young man.  No tears.    

[Whimsy]

Just now, wings707 said:

Did she have those photos or are they from Going Clear or another source?  I don't think they said.  Some appeared to be older pictures before her time.   

All of the photos had "courtesy of Saina" on them.

[Wings]

Just now, Whimsy said:

All of the photos had "courtesy of Saina" on them.

Thanks.  Very interesting she was able to take those!  

[CindyBee]

Just now, wings707 said:

Thanks.  Very interesting she was able to take those!  

 

Tony Ortega has an interview up with Miriam & Saina on his website.  Here's what she had to say about the photos:

Quote

I’ve always been about photography, as a child and even now. I bought $5 disposable cameras constantly when I had the money then. Some of the pics you saw were just compliance reports for the Sea Org, I just happened to find them on a ranch reunion site and got approval to use them.

[WInterfalls]

6 minutes ago, wings707 said:

Yes there was one COS teacher who twaddled the blonde but the other was her dad.  The fact that COS was on the molesters side is what is relevant here.  Sexual abuse exists in every corner of out society including the Catholic church.  

I thought this was a boring and wasted episode.  

I think what is relevant is that these children were left without parental supervision at the mercy of strangers and no one to turn to when they were assaulted.  Yes sexual abuse happens everywhere (and that is a very sad truth), but when there is no one there to listen and a culture of well what did you do to cause this then that needs to be exposed. I did not find this episode to be boring or a waste in the slightest and I certainly forgive them their tears reliving the things they experienced.  

 

11 minutes ago, wings707 said:

Please get Nick Lister to speak out.  Check his interviews out on youtube.  He is a defector and strong young man.  No tears.

Nick Lister is a very interesting voice but according to Aaron Smith-Levin he is having a very tough time right now and just trying to move on with his life.  He actually wanted Aaron to remove his videos from his site.  

[SanLynn]

If the season continues this way I foresee using up my entire stash of kleenex (I overbought one time and those things have been sitting around forever). This episode was horrifying. I was definitely not aware of how brutal CO$ is to the poor kids coming of age in their cult. And to read what LRH said about kids... all of it just made me weep. 

And I agree with all of you who are commenting on Mike and how pained he's looking so far. I respect him for taking this opportunity to make amends and face up (possibly in a way he never has before) to the abuses he was a part of. I do also worry about what this is doing to him. 

[JAndy]

Did Leah say at one point that she left Scientology because of her daughter? That she didn't want her to do all of the "adult" stuff in Scientology. 

I do feel for Rinder. It's probably very upsetting to him and he's probably disgusted with himself. I forget, did he go into Scientology himself, or grow up in it? 

[WInterfalls]

36 minutes ago, JAndy said:

I do feel for Rinder. It's probably very upsetting to him and he's probably disgusted with himself. I forget, did he go into Scientology himself, or grow up in it?

His parents joined Scientology when he was 6 and he was raised in it.  His children are third generation Scientology and know nothing else.  I'm sure this was very hard for him because he knows this could just as easily been his kids' life. In fact as far as the manual labor and physical punishments go he knows it was their life. 

Edited August 16, 2017 by WInterfalls