A New Beginning: OUAT 2.0

[Camera One]

The Writers couldn't care less about the resistance, since they're off on their next shiny toy, and it shows.  We still haven't seen this Big Bad King.  They had Henry fixing a motorcycle, Whook offscreen doing a naval patrol, Tiana offscreen doing who knows what, and Regina trying to mother Drizella.  I shudder to think how sparse their planning wall is.

Edited November 17, 2017 by Camera One

[Camera One]

Funniest Twitter exchange so far tonight, from the Writers... hmmm... I wonder why there are inconsistencies on this show.

Brigitte Hales‏ @InkTankGirl

@leahfong My husband just asked where the name Eloise Gardner came from. Do you remember?

Leah Fong‏ @leahfong 3h3 hours ago

Replying to @InkTankGirl   Gardner... yes. But Eloise? Don't recall. It does sound like the name on the back of a milk box carton?

Paul Karp‏ @InterruptingDad 47m47 minutes ago

I think @AdamJKarp and Chris named her!

Jane Espenson ‏Verified account @JaneEspenson 40m40 minutes ago

That sounds right-- 'twasn't me!

Edited November 18, 2017 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

10 hours ago, Camera One said:

Funniest Twitter exchange so far tonight, from the Writers... hmmm... I wonder why there are inconsistencies on this show.

They probably stole that name from LOST as well. Eloise Hawking. Another shady woman (but at least not a rapist).

[Camera One]

The latest EW interview does indicate that A&E aren't letting their newer cast know about plot points (in this case, Colin knew a lot more than Rose Reynolds, who plays Alice).  Which makes sense, I guess.  Though in this case, A&E did tell the actress she would be Hook's daughter when she asked before the filming of Episode 1.

Quote

However, it’s a twist that Reynolds didn’t know from the beginning. “First time I met Colin was in the stairwell of the offices at Bridge Studios,” the actress says. “It was after the read through of episode 1, I introduced myself and he said, ‘Oh, Alice, right? You know what they’ve got planned for you, don’t you?’ I said, ‘No.’ And then he smiled, nodded and walked off!

And so then at dinner I was sat next to Adam [Horowitz] and said, ‘So, Colin, nice guy, he said something might be coming up for Alice?’ And Adam told me they intended for her to be Hook’s daughter and I was super excited, [but] mad at C.”

“With regard to finding out who my Mum was, I found this out much later,” Reynolds continues. “Maybe episode 6. I’d been ragging on Colin since I found out he was my dad, because I love him and it’s fun, and one time I joked that, ‘I must have got my good looks from my mum!’ And he replied, ‘You know who your mum is though, don’t you?’ And I said, ‘No.’ And he did the nod, smile, walk away thing again! So I went back to the scripts and reread them for clues and there was a line about Alice being locked in a tower and I knew Emma’s character was doing a lot of that with Rapunzel, so I went back to Colin and said, ‘It’s the Witch!!’ to which he said, ‘Nope.’ And then walked off again! So not only did Colin deny giving me any parental guidance, when I got anything right, he lied about it to my face!”

Edited November 19, 2017 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

I'm thoroughly convinced that Tremaine is Rapunzel. They have similar appearances (accounting for age differences), Drizella was training near the tower's ruins, it would explain why Rapunzel and Murderella are from the same realm, Gothel's affections toward Ivy are akin to a grandmother's, and it would also explain why Victoria is so scared of Gothel and kept her in a tower in HH. Tremaine's short brown hair is reminiscent of Tangled. That remark she made in 7x01 about how magic is so easily lost could point to her hair being cut. 

Quote

The latest EW interview does indicate that A&E aren't letting their newer cast know about plot points

If you watch Ivy's character, it's like the author decided to add in the plot twist halfway through the book without changing anything in the first half. In the first four episodes, Ivy wasn't written as particularly villainous or shady at all. She just spouted off a range of modern pop culture references. You can't go back and say, "Oh, yeah. She was totally awake that entire time." Even if Ivy was so clever that she could pull off a full-proof deception, we haven't seen that since the reveal. Her actions have been super suspicious. She hasn't been hiding hardly at all. It's painfully obvious the actress knew nothing until 7x05. It's like Zarian all over again.

Edited November 19, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

7 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

I'm thoroughly convinced that Tremaine is Rapunzel. They have similar appearances (accounting for age differences), Drizella was training near the tower's ruins, it would explain why Rapunzel and Murderella are from the same realm, Gothel's affections toward Ivy are akin to a grandmother's, and it would also explain why Victoria is so scared of Gothel and kept her in a tower in HH. Tremaine's short brown hair is reminiscent of Tangled. That remark she made in 7x01 about how magic is so easily lost could point to her hair being cut. 

That would be a good twist, and would tie the Cinderella and Rapunzel threads together.  Though I would be surprised that Disney let them turn a beloved Disney princess into an evil despicable villain.  I know they've done it with Peter Pan and Arthur, but they're not as recent as "Tangled".  Though I wouldn't be surprised at anything after they let them have Tangled seduce Whook, even if it wasn't really her.  All the people who switched to another station halfway through wouldn't have known that.  It also means that they will be giving Tremaine a sob story.

It doesn't fit the timeline, but what I was thinking before that Anastasia could have been Rapunzel, stolen as a baby by Gothel, and Lady Tremaine learned magic to get her out, and then Gothel killed her, so Tremaine is desperate to get back a child that she wasn't able to raise herself.

[KingOfHearts]

After Belle died, nothing would surprise me any more.

[Camera One]

2 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

After Belle died, nothing would surprise me any more.

That's a good point.  I know it was supposed to be poignant and all that but I think I would need to rewatch the animated movie at least 15 times before I can remove that episode from my soul.

Edited November 19, 2017 by Camera One

[RolloTomasi]

Honestly, I don’t think Disney cares nearly as much about the show as some think they do. Frozen was the exception, but that was at the height of Frozen’s popularity and the show was still a draw. The show has zero presence in the parks and in the stores. I don’t think Disney is concerned people will get Once’s Belle confused with the Belle from the movie that just made a billion dollars. 

[KingOfHearts]

Cinderella has attempted murder twice this season, too.

I'm pretty sure Victoria is going to get some sort of redemption, and being Rapunzel is going to feed into that. Since she's not labeled as a guest star, the writers probably intend on keeping her around. It would be an easier pill to swallow if she was actually Brunette!Rapunzel and not Lady Tremaine. Ivy, on the other hand, is probably going to kick the bucket by the time the winter finale rolls around. 

Edited November 19, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

13 hours ago, Camera One said:

The latest EW interview does indicate that A&E aren't letting their newer cast know about plot points (in this case, Colin knew a lot more than Rose Reynolds, who plays Alice).

I wonder if they told Colin or if it was another case of him figuring it out on his own. Didn't he figure out that Hook was a Dark One in 5A before they told him? I do recall that he knew before Jen did, which was odd because Hook didn't know, but Emma did. It would be funny if Colin figured it out about Alice, did the smile and walk away thing, then she asked and they figured she knew so they told her. Really, the actors should have access to all the information their characters have. It's tricky in this show because there are the flashback stories where everyone knows everything, and there are the present-day stories where many of the characters don't have their memories. But if Ivy was awake all along, then the actress should have known she was awake and that she was responsible for the curse. I really don't get the way these producers share information. There wouldn't have been any reason to tell Colin about Alice, since Rogers didn't know when he was interacting with Tilly, and WHook didn't interact with Alice until the episode after the identity of his daughter was revealed. But Tilly was remembering during the episode in which Rogers first met her, so shouldn't the actress have been clued in that she might be recognizing her father? I mean officially clued in, not trolled by her costar and getting it confirmed when she asked about it.

[Camera One]

I agree.  Telling the actresses who played Ivy and Marian beforehand were particularly important because it would significantly affect their performance.  I suppose Colin and Rose knowing could allow them to portray a magnetism to each other even though their characters weren't conscious of the fact that they were father and daughter. 

From a practical standpoint, it wouldn't surprise me that A&E would just confide in Colin more because they've worked together for years.  They also would want to tell him how meaty the "new" role was.  Colin hasn't said anything about "collaborating" with A&E to the level of Lana, but they could also have spoken to him when they visited Vancouver to talk to her about the requel.  

We know that the actress playing Lady Tremaine knew nothing, since in the summer interviews (they probably would have filmed the first or second episode by then?), she said there were no redeeming qualities in Tremaine that she could glean.  So whatever "twist" they have in store would have been revealed to her later, which would actually affect her performance if she did start off as a hero/victim.  I can't say the performance for Victoria has changed at all over the last 7 episodes.  Who knows when the actress found out that she was "awake".  

Edited November 19, 2017 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

I think A&E avoid telling the actors anything because they're afraid someone is going to figure out their "twist". It feeds into their arrogance. They don't want to trust anyone else with their shocking!reveals. 

Edited November 19, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

The other reason is, at least half the time, the "twist" is something they thought of later (though they would vehemently insist otherwise, to the point of absurdity, like when they claimed you could rewatch "The Stable Boy" to see that Leopold and Cora had a past... uh, riiiiiiiiiight...).

Edited November 20, 2017 by Camera One

[Camera One]

I'm watching "Shrek 3" while I'm doing boring paperwork, but then I got a little bored, so I went on Youtube and happened upon Lana Parrilla's interview on the Rachael Ray Show from October.  

She repeats here that it has been 7-10 years flashing forward.  Now, does she mean since The Last Supper?  Or since Henry left Storybrooke on his motorcycle?

[KingOfHearts]

It can't be 7-10 years though, since it's 2017.

[Rumsy4]

7 minutes ago, Camera One said:

She repeats here that it has been 7-10 years flashing forward.  Now, does she mean since The Last Supper?  Or since Henry left Storybrooke on his motorcycle?

I don't think Lana knows what she's talking about. IMO, she's just guesstimating like the rest of us. This timeline confusion will never be resolved: there are way too many discrepancies (age differences between characters is not uniform). For example, Regina says she's going to SF to find someone who was pushed out of HH "years ago" by Victoria. How long have they been in HH? If they've been there for years, why does Lucy look the same as in the S6 finale? We all thought JKR was (self-admittedly) bad at math. She's practically a math wizard compared to the OUAT writers. 

I do think, though, that the last two episodes support the Lucy-was-adopted hypothesis. Alice/Tilly looks the same age between then and in HH, and that was soon after Henriella met. I doubt Regina shared her stay-young-5ever potion with everybody she met. Unless Lucy was aged up rapidly by magic in the EF, she's got to be adopted. I don't know why I'm even bothering at this point, though. It will all be explained away by magic, or simply not touched upon at all. 

[Camera One]

So far, we've had two mentions of 10 years, so does that have anything to do with how long they have been Cursed in Hyperion Heights?   Rogers said the case had been cold for 10 years.  Jacinda said she hadn't seen Nick for 10 years.  Now, how could they all have existed in REAL Seattle without aging for 10 years?   Or is 10 the Writers' favorite number this year? We have no way of knowing what's random and what's intentional on this show.

[Mabinogia]

I think when the writers rolled the plot dice it came up with an 8 and a 2 hence everything is now 10 years. I have absolutely no faith that anything about this season was thought out, plotted or written before the day of shooting. I basically think this they are writing it using an old Mad Libs book, a pair of dice and a dart board. Either that or two really, really stoned monkey and a drunk dog have the writers tied up in the closet and have taken over the shows writing. Though, if that were the case I'd think the show would be about 97% more watchable. 

[tennisgurl]

 If those thousands of monkeys with their thousands of typewriters could finally write King Lear, I bet they could write this show pretty easily. 

[ParadoxLost]

On ‎11‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 5:44 PM, Mabinogia said:

I think when the writers rolled the plot dice it came up with an 8 and a 2 hence everything is now 10 years.

It would be just like them to use octahedron dice:)

Honestly, I think its as simple as they got used to assuming a 10 year time jump because of Lucy's age when they were pitching S7.  But they didn't think about the realities of making everyone else age uniformly until later.   Aging Rumple, Hook, and Regina ten years just wasn't going to happen if for no other reason than not wanting to add the time to the production schedule for make up.

They probably have some explanation for why Lucy is 10 but no one aged (like adoption) but because its a surprise for later they haven't firmly established it.  So now media and the show are confusing about the timeline because there was an ill thought out plan for the timeline that they aren't going with any more but haven't scrubbed references to in the show and haven't shared the concrete alternative so everyone is inconsistent in their explanations in the media.

On ‎11‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 5:40 PM, Camera One said:

So far, we've had two mentions of 10 years, so does that have anything to do with how long they have been Cursed in Hyperion Heights?   Rogers said the case had been cold for 10 years.  Jacinda said she hadn't seen Nick for 10 years.  Now, how could they all have existed in REAL Seattle without aging for 10 years?   

There is no way for them to have been in Seattle for ten years without a frozen time that affected everyone including Lucy.  Because Lucy was the same age in S6 finale while Henry was still in the EF.  They can pretend that everyone else has a potion or ages really well but 10 years would be noticeable on Lucy.  If 10 years passed, it passed in the EF.

The narrative of the flashbacks makes that virtually impossible because they would have to defeat Drizella, lock her up for 10 yrs, and then have her escape and gather everyone back together for revenge.

You know there is another timeline problem now.  How did Hook go from drunk old Hook in the time it took for Alice to grow up.  And if the "missing ten years" reference refers to how long Hook has been parted from his daughter (which it likely does) then that is a transformation that likely happened in 10 yrs or less.  I'm going with Gothel did it by magic.

[Mabinogia]

God how I wish Lucy was adopted. Then Henry wouldn't be her father and wouldn't be stuck with Murderella and the writers could possibly salvage him by finding him another true love. 

[Shanna Marie]

33 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

You know there is another timeline problem now.  How did Hook go from drunk old Hook in the time it took for Alice to grow up.  And if the "missing ten years" reference refers to how long Hook has been parted from his daughter (which it likely does) then that is a transformation that likely happened in 10 yrs or less.

There are timeline issues no matter how you look at it with Alice and Whook. It looks like the Gothel/Whook flashback happened early in what would have been the curse. Not only are Whook, WRegina, and WSmee about the same age as when the curse would have been cast, but Whook questions WRegina about the curse, like he was expecting it soon. Since Alice was in the same realm where Henry aged, regardless of how much time has passed in Storybrooke, that time did pass in that realm, so in the flashback "present," it's been about 40 years since the curse would have been cast. If the flashback happened early in what would have been the curse, Alice would be close to 40, in her late 30s at least. Then Whook's aging makes sense but Alice's doesn't. He'd be in his 70s. But if it happened midway through the elapsed time, so that Alice aged naturally, then WHook and WRegina should have looked noticeably older during the flashback and WHook's aging doesn't make sense because Old Hook was definitely more than about 20 years older than young Hook.

However, Alice did comment on how young WHook was, so he must have been aging during the time they were together. He'd have been in his mid 60s the last time she saw him.

Maybe Alice really is close to 40 but her growth was magically slowed while she was in the tower.

[Camera One]

This is seriously giving me a headache.  I'm so tired I can't think clearly...  Is the 40 years since the Original Planned Curse based on an 18-year-old Emma giving birth to Henry who's now, let's say, 22 in the flashbacks?  So Alice should be 40 years old, 

Based on all the new characters looking the same, and Lucy already being close to 10 before the Curse was enacted, it's looking more and more like Lucy was indeed adopted or had rapid aging.  They could all have been in Hyperion Heights for 5 minutes, if not for Roni saying in "Pretty in Blue" that she was going to San Francisco to look for someone who Victoria pushed out "a long time ago".   The oft-mentioned "10 years ago" in Hyperion Heights must be coincidentally the same as Lucy's age, since she was already around 10 when the Curse was first enacted. 

[Shanna Marie]

11 hours ago, Camera One said:

Is the 40 years since the Original Planned Curse based on an 18-year-old Emma giving birth to Henry who's now, let's say, 22 in the flashbacks?

I was basing that on the 28 years of the curse, 3-4 years since the curse before the end of season 6, then about three years between season 6 and Henry's departure in season 7, and then however many years have passed between the time Henry left Storybrooke and now. That may or may not have involved less time passing in Storybrooke than wherever Henry was, but it seems like Henry was in the same world as Alice, so however much Henry aged, Alice would likely have aged.

Maybe she didn't age while in Wonderland, however long she stayed there, and that would account for her age.

I have no idea how they could have been in Hyperion Heights for 10 years if Lucy was the same age as she is now when the curse hit. And then there's the fact that they're supposedly in 2017, which would have been about the year teen Henry left Storybrooke. Maybe it was Roni's fake curse memories of someone being pushed out a long time ago, when actually they were sent to a different place by the curse.

[Rumsy4]

1 hour ago, Shanna Marie said:

when actually they were sent to a different place by the curse.

That's probably the explanation. Nice of the Curse to send Zelena (presumably) to California. Maybe it would consider sending someone to Hawaii next time. 

[Camera One]

Quote

Maybe it was Roni's fake curse memories of someone being pushed out a long time ago, when actually they were sent to a different place by the curse.

It would have saved Lady Tremaine a lot of work with her evictions if she had just sent everyone to a different place on Earth (assuming she cast the Curse).  One would think the Curse Caster would have sent Henry far, far away from Seattle if the Curse could send someone like Zelena to California (if it's her).  

We're eight episodes in, and we still don't know how Lucy came to her conclusion that Henry is her father, how Henry ended up outside of Hyperion Heights yet have Cursed memories, how long the Curse has gone on for, who cast the Curse/who the Big Bad is, why they cast the Curse, what Lucy and Adult Henry were up to in the flashback in the Season 6 finale, why everyone wants to bring Anastasia back to life, how everyone is connected to Mophead, how Rumple got caught up, how Alice got out of her Tower, who the evil King is... it goes on and on.  

Edited November 25, 2017 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

1 minute ago, Camera One said:

why everyone wants to bring Anastasia back to life

This could lead to a very special zombie episode where different characters try to bring Anastasia back to life in increasingly hare-brained ways only for her to drop dead after two minutes each time. Finally, in desperation, someone brings Victor Whale from Storybrooke, and he's a little too successful, and suddenly corpses are bursting out from graveyards all around Seattle to the tune of Thriller. 

[VoicePlaya]

20 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

This could lead to a very special zombie episode where different characters try to bring Anastasia back to life in increasingly hare-brained ways only for her to drop dead after two minutes each time. Finally, in desperation, someone brings Victor Whale from Storybrooke, and he's a little too successful, and suddenly corpses are bursting out from graveyards all around Seattle to the tune of Thriller. 

Bet that'd be more entertaining than whatever they end up giving us.

[Camera One]

We know the resurrection won't go well, so I can see the Anastasia resurrection being used as a way to make us feel sorry for Lady Tremaine and Drizella and "humanize" them as Gothel steps up to be the real big bad, until she herself is redeemed.  Maybe they're going to take a page out of "Frozen"'s book.  Child Cinderella doesn't believe that Drizella can do magic, so Drizella tries but it kills the univerally beloved Anastasia.  Drizella and Tremaine both blame Cinders, and Tremaine also blames Drizella and bans her from doing magic and alters her memory.  Oops, they did this already with Ingrid and Helga in 4A.  

[jhlipton]

2 hours ago, Camera One said:

 Oops, they did this already with Ingrid and Helga in 4A.  

Like that would stop them...

[KingOfHearts]

I saw someone call the Lady Tremaine/Rapunzel theory, "Trimmed Mane". It made me laugh.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

On 11/17/2017 at 0:37 AM, Rumsy4 said:

And why on earth does WHook care about the resistance??! Maybe the naval recon mission was just a dumb excuse he knew those idiots would buy, and he's off looking for his daughter. 

He's trying to be a better person.

[Rumsy4]

18 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

He's trying to be a better person.

To my mind, his first priority has to be finding his daughter. Since that has already happened randomly, his next priority should be to find a cure for their curse. Working for some half-assed resistance movement seems to be like a pointless waste of time, and not something I can empathize with. Unless the Resistance is helping him actively to look for a Cure, which doesn't seem to be the case so far. We've seen Rogers doing more to find Eloise Gardner than of WHook looking for his daughter or a cure. 

Edited November 28, 2017 by Rumsy4

[Camera One]

The latest exchange between Adam and a fan.  Are we any less confused?

Super Sarah‏  @auliemonkey
@AdamHorowitzLA I got a Henry question for you. Henry was born August 15, 2001, correct? If season 7 is in 2017, that would make Henry’s age 16? If he was 10 in 4th grade, how could he graduate at 16? That must have been hardcore extra credit. Why would Regina let him go at 16?

Adam Horowitz  @AdamHorowitzLA
Replying to @auliemonkey   The scene where Henry leaves in 701 takes place after he graduated high school.  It’s not 2017.  It’s later.

Super Sarah‏   @auliemonkey
Replying to @AdamHorowitzLA    Like going back in time? Which would make sense how the SB don’t think anything is up?

Adam Horowitz‏  @AdamHorowitzLA
Replying to @auliemonkey    The time line should be clearer as season progresses (I hope!) 

[KingOfHearts]

The "time flows differently in different realms" thing doesn't even fix that. Time either moves slower or faster. Not backwards. 

[Rumsy4]

19 minutes ago, Camera One said:

The scene where Henry leaves in 701 takes place after he graduated high school.  It’s not 2017.  

What?? Maybe he had a little too much to drink over Thanksgiving.

[Shanna Marie]

26 minutes ago, Camera One said:

The scene where Henry leaves in 701 takes place after he graduated high school.  It’s not 2017.  It’s later.

I may not be remembering properly, but didn't it say on the screen "present day"? I'm pretty sure it did at some point in the episode, though I'm not sure when. Maybe in Hyperion Heights? But then we have it being in the future when Henry left town after graduating high school, then he's in his 30s (or so) in the present.

Then there are the other timeline issues, like how Henry couldn't have been 14 in season 6, considering he was 12 when Snowflake was born, and Snowflake was still an infant, probably not even a year old (he didn't seem to be crawling yet), at the end of season 6. So whether or not he left home in 2017 at whatever age is an additional issue.

[ParadoxLost]

25 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

The "time flows differently in different realms" thing doesn't even fix that. Time either moves slower or faster. Not backwards. 

This sounds like the Hyperion Heights curse had a time travel spell twist.  That would give them the loophole that they can't contact Storybrooke because it is 2017 there and Henry is there and so is Regina and anything they do to contact anyone in Storybrooke might change their past.

Basically the problem Captain Swan was trying to solve when they interfered with Snowing's meeting in the past.

[KingOfHearts]

9 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

This sounds like the Hyperion Heights curse had a time travel spell twist.  That would give them the loophole that they can't contact Storybrooke because it is 2017 there and Henry is there and so is Regina and anything they do to contact anyone in Storybrooke might change their past.

That is so overly complicated, yet it's exactly something A&E would do.

[ParadoxLost]

4 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

That is so overly complicated, yet it's exactly something A&E would do.

It also gives them an out that Belle is dead but not dead.

I'm really thinking this is at least part of the answer in large part because it puts the end of S6 in stasis which gives them the ability to go to an unaltered S6 contingency/guest appearance in case something massively blows up in their faces while saying it was the plan all along.

But the thing that is so A&E about it is that it doesn't actually fix any of the in show timeline problems such as Lucy being 10 and Henry/Jacinda not aging and it being preposterous that the HH curse happens 10 years after all the flashback action.  So Lucy still needs to be adopted in addition to a time travel to 2017 Seattle spell.

[Shanna Marie]

35 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

I'm really thinking this is at least part of the answer in large part because it puts the end of S6 in stasis which gives them the ability to go to an unaltered S6 contingency/guest appearance in case something massively blows up in their faces while saying it was the plan all along.

I can see the season (probably series) finale already: Teen Henry wakes up screaming in his bed in Regina's house in Storybrooke, grabs for his phone, and sees that it's May of 2018 (when he'd probably be getting close to the end of his senior year in high school -- maybe, depending on which timeline we're going with this week). Regina comes rushing in to see what's wrong.

Henry: I just had the strangest dream -- and you were there. And Killian, except he wasn't our Killian. He was the old Hook you told me about from the Wish universe, but he became young again, and he was looking for his daughter. And Grandpa Gold was there too, but for him it was many years later and Belle was dead. Then there was another curse, and we were in Seattle, and you were a bartender and I was a novelist. And I was married to Cinderella, but a different Cinderella, not Ashley, and we had a kid who was trying to get me to break the curse. It was all a lot like when I came to get Emma to break the curse here, only kind of different. You know, I think I'll go to college, after all. You were right. I should do something with my life that matters, not just go off traveling other realms to try to be a hero.

Regina: I'm glad to hear that. There are a lot of ways to be a hero, you know. It doesn't have to be the kind of thing you read in storybooks. I think we should also avoid pizza at midnight from now on, no matter what Emma lets you do at her house. It'll just give you bad dreams. Now, get back to sleep, and tomorrow we'll look at those college brochures. (To herself, as she goes back to her bedroom) A bartender? Really?

[jhlipton]

12 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

We've seen Rogers doing more to find Eloise Gardner than of WHook looking for his daughter or a cure. 

Since WHook found his daughter without looking, maybe he figures that the only way to find the cure is to not look for it.  It's a Zen Cure!

12 hours ago, Camera One said:

The time line should be clearer as season progresses (I hope!) 

He hopes the timeline will be clear clearer.  OK, then.

[Shanna Marie]

9 hours ago, jhlipton said:

He hopes the timeline will be clear clearer.  OK, then.

Didn't he promise that the aging and time thing would be clear after the second episode? That one only explained how old Wish Hook ended up looking the same as Hook Prime.

If Henry left Storybrooke years after 2017, that makes things even more weird and complicated. It kills the theory that time isn't passing as quickly in our world, so it's only been months in our world while years went by in the world where Henry was, and that meant he could have aged and returned to our world in the same year he left.

It also weakens my crack theory that Hyperion Heights is actually an Author-created AU based on the last year Henry was in our world, though I guess he might have visited Seattle in 2017, and that's why he set Hyperion Heights there.

If it's time travel that has them going back to 2017, I have to wonder why. The reason to travel in time is to change history, but you can't really change history in another world. There would be no benefit to Drizella, Lady Tremaine, or Gothel in going back in time to our world. One possibility is that someone hijacked someone else's time travel spell -- like if Lady Tremaine was trying to go back in time before Anastasia was killed and prevent her death, and Drizella casts the dark curse at the same time, so they go back in time but go to another world where they can't change their history.

And that still doesn't explain how Regina and either Hook look as young as they do. If Henry left home years after 2018, then there are however many years before he meets Ella and then Hook, Emma, and Regina show up, but they look no older. Emma would be close to 40 by then, and Regina would be probably close to 50. And then there's Lucy's life, if she is actually Ella and Henry's child and ten years pass.

[ParadoxLost]

29 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

If it's time travel that has them going back to 2017, I have to wonder why. The reason to travel in time is to change history, but you can't really change history in another world. There would be no benefit to Drizella, Lady Tremaine, or Gothel in going back in time to our world. One possibility is that someone hijacked someone else's time travel spell -- like if Lady Tremaine was trying to go back in time before Anastasia was killed and prevent her death, and Drizella casts the dark curse at the same time, so they go back in time but go to another world where they can't change their history.

Rumple always ends up manipulating things to his own purpose.  Trying to go back to a time that Belle was still alive ?

[Shanna Marie]

35 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

Rumple always ends up manipulating things to his own purpose.  Trying to go back to a time that Belle was still alive ?

That's a possibility. Supposedly, they left Storybrooke a year after season 6, so they would have been gone by 2017 but Belle would have still been alive, and they wouldn't have yet gone to Paradise Falls, so he'd have room to intervene, but after he figured out a way to get to whatever realm they were in at that time.

[jhlipton]

4 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

Rumple always ends up manipulating things to his own purpose.  Trying to go back to a time that Belle was still alive ?

Once again, more thought than TSTW...

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

Rumple always ends up manipulating things to his own purpose.  Trying to go back to a time that Belle was still alive ?

Yet when Zelena offered to take him back in time to see Baelfire, he declined...

[Camera One]

They made such a big deal of Rumple's growth in Episode 4 and Belle intentionally living out her whole life and dying so he could free himself from the Dagger... if he then goes back in time to change the past with Belle, he's right back where he started, isn't he?  Looks like another waste-of-time roundabout arc for Rumple if it pans out that he's behind this time travel.

[Camera One]

On 11/27/2017 at 6:03 PM, Camera One said:

Adam Horowitz  @AdamHorowitzLA
Replying to @auliemonkey   The scene where Henry leaves in 701 takes place after he graduated high school.  It’s not 2017.  It’s later.

Adam Horowitz‏  @AdamHorowitzLA
Replying to @auliemonkey    The time line should be clearer as season progresses (I hope!) 

This whole exchange has been deleted, so it never happened, everyone.