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S13.E11: Week 10: The Final Rose / S13.E12: After the Final Rose

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Just now, TheFinalRose said:

Maybe, but I didn't see it that way. I think Rachel by nature might enjoy an intense interchange of the kind she had with Peter. It might say more about her love of getting in there and arguing a point that she truly is invested in than it says about her love of Peter. 

And she's sort of admitted to that very thing in interviews throughout the season. That she's always been drawn to the difficult and challenging men and relationships because she believed that if it wasn't hard and dramatic then it wasn't real. If it was too easy and simple then something was off. And she's said that was the struggle she had with Bryan and Peter. Peter represented the bad choices she always made and Bryan was the leap of faith because she kept looking for something to be wrong because it was almost too easy between them.

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46 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

I'm pretty sure that the leads are contractually obligated to do the live ATFR.

Of course they are. But they aren't required to agree to every whim of the producers that makes it the most dramatic finale. Watching it live, having to respond to the breakup before the glee of the engagement? She could have put her foot down.  Because if she said she wouldnt do things that way, what could the producers do? Have Chris do the live show without her? No.  They would be flexible in an effort to get the best show possible. They could have compromised and done the first half live (with the Eric breakup) and the second half in the normal format.  It would have been better all around. A pr person might have been able to see that coming, and help her fight for her image.  Which right now? Isnt at its peak. 

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Just now, fib said:

Of course they are. But they aren't required to agree to every whim of the producers that makes it the most dramatic finale. Watching it live, having to respond to the breakup before the glee of the engagement? She could have put her foot down.  Because if she said she wouldnt do things that way, what could the producers do? Have Chris do the live show without her? No.  They would be flexible in an effort to get the best show possible. They could have compromised and done the first half live (with the Eric breakup) and the second half in the normal format.  It would have been better all around. A pr person might have been able to see that coming, and help her fight for her image.  Which right now? Isnt at its peak. 

I guess but honestly, who knows how much control and practically their lives these people sign away to the producers in these contracts. 

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10 hours ago, bk10 said:

I hope that there's never another black bachelor or bachelorette.  

Um, excuse me?  What's that all about?

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9 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

And she's sort of admitted to that very thing in interviews throughout the season. That she's always been drawn to the difficult and challenging men and relationships because she believed that if it wasn't hard and dramatic then it wasn't real. If it was too easy and simple then something was off. And she's said that was the struggle she had with Bryan and Peter. Peter represented the bad choices she always made and Bryan was the leap of faith because she kept looking for something to be wrong because it was almost too easy between them.

While I agree Rachel had some desperate moments last night (ugh) I do think a lot of her anger and frustration wasn't just about Peter: he represented a lot of the mistakes she had made in the past. I think she also realized upon watching the show that he wasn't really that into her and was angling for the Bachelor spot. 

Say what you will about Eric, but I think he was the best choice of the three. He really liked Rachel, made that clear/didn't send mixed messages, and was truly interested in marriage long term. I cant say Peter or Bryan satisfy all there requirements. Peter gets a 0/3 and Bryan gets 2/3. 

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10 minutes ago, fib said:

Of course they are. But they aren't required to agree to every whim of the producers that makes it the most dramatic finale. Watching it live, having to respond to the breakup before the glee of the engagement? She could have put her foot down.  Because if she said she wouldnt do things that way, what could the producers do? Have Chris do the live show without her? No.  They would be flexible in an effort to get the best show possible. They could have compromised and done the first half live (with the Eric breakup) and the second half in the normal format.  It would have been better all around. A pr person might have been able to see that coming, and help her fight for her image.  Which right now? Isnt at its peak. 

They could get a really bad edit if they don't follow the producers wishes, I would assume.  I'm just guessing though...I could be wrong. Though it's not like anyone ever comes out of this show looking good anyway.

 

I'm surprised Peter has so many fans. I think the guys who go on this show are a little weird in general. I get why women would want to give it a try, but not so much with men.  I figure that once he gets his own season everyone will be hating him by the end of it.

Edited by bantering
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2 minutes ago, bantering said:

They could get a really bad edit if they don't follow the producers wishes, I would assume. 

Didnt she anyway though? 

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15 minutes ago, debbie311 said:

OMG, that dress she was wearing when she sent Eric home.

You mean the orange see-through  net with hunks of black plastic all over the shoulders and arms making Rachel look like a football player who forgot to put his pants on?  That dress?

Does Rachel know she has to give the ring back if she doesn't stay engaged a certain amount of time?  Maybe this is going to last after all.

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3 minutes ago, fib said:

Didnt she anyway though? 

Yeah, that's why I said that most people will probably hate Peter by the end of his season  and that most people don't come out of this show looking good anyway. 

Edited by bantering
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13 minutes ago, TomGirl said:

Um, excuse me?  What's that all about?

I think the show became too focused on race. It brought out the ugly in a lot of people. 

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I'm SO glad I decided to spoil myself before watching the damn 3 hours special. So now I don't have to. Thank you for saving me three hours of my life.

Choosing second favorite to get the proposal. Was really hoping she wasn't going to do that. Don't like Bryan one little bit.

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6 minutes ago, bk10 said:
22 minutes ago, TomGirl said:

Um, excuse me?  What's that all about?

I think the show became too focused on race. It brought out the ugly in a lot of people. 

BK10, thanks for the clarification.

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11 hours ago, b2H said:

Peter is the only level-headed one in the group for not wanting to rush into something that is a life long commitment after only eight weeks and knowing she slept with at least two other men within the week of proposal.  Think about it.

Perhaps, but why would he, being so level-headed, even go on a show like this knowing he couldn't propose after 8 weeks......the travel, fame, adventure, possibility of being the next Bachelor?

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2 hours ago, sioux21 said:

Wasn't Peter the one whose high school yearbook listed getting on The Bachelor as his goal in life? I think his presence on the show was meant as a ruse, a crossing-it-off-the-list opportunity.

Hilarious. I had no idea this is a thing guys actually aspired to. Weird.

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Very interesting that Rachel tells PEOPLE she knew Bryan was the one when she got so defensive and protective of him with her family. She says she told her mom he was her best friend even then. I wish the editing had shown some more of that. 

This quote was also interesting: “With Peter, I constantly got this push and this pull,” she say. “What I hate so much is that it seems like the reason that Peter wasn’t the one for me is due to the proposal, and I think that it became such a big issue because that’s what happens at the end of this, but there were other deep-rooted issues in my relationship with him.”

Finally, this quote from Neil Lane for those talking about the ring: “Apparently Rachel had talked about a pear-shaped diamond and this was her fantasy ring,” says Lane. “Bryan lit up when he saw it.”

Edited by SallyAlbright
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2 hours ago, sioux21 said:

Wasn't Peter the one whose high school yearbook listed getting on The Bachelor as his goal in life? I think his presence on the show was meant as a ruse, a crossing-it-off-the-list opportunity.

The man is in his 30s. When are people going to stop bringing up something he said at 17? Also, how is it that nobody talks about Bryan's more recent appearance on a reality show about being a player?

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4 minutes ago, comosedice said:

The man is in his 30s. When are people going to stop bringing up something he said at 17? Also, how is it that nobody talks about Bryan's more recent appearance on a reality show about being a player?

A big YES to this!!!!

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I had no idea 17 year old guys were into watching The Bachelor in 2004. So this revelation that he wrote about being on The Bachelor in his yearbook will continue to be funny to me, even if he was 17 when he wrote it. 

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19 minutes ago, comosedice said:

The man is in his 30s. When are people going to stop bringing up something he said at 17? Also, how is it that nobody talks about Bryan's more recent appearance on a reality show about being a player?

I think both are equally hilarious, but wasn't Bryan on that show in 2004? Also a long time ago and around when Peter was writing in his yearbook. 

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12 hours ago, Alapaki said:

Tonight made clear to me that Rachel is 1000% famewhore.  Maybe one of the worst, in those terms, of the recent 'Ettes.  

I thought it was VERY interesting that Rachel said the places they're considering living are their current hometowns of Miami and Dallas -- or LA! LA?! Someone has show biz dreams, or maybe both of them . . .

Hard to believe Bryan's mama would be down for him living anywhere BUT Miami. First mom/fiancee clash? Who will win?

Edited by ChiBurbsMama
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10 hours ago, backformore said:

Bryan: Rachel, will you marry  me?

Rachel: well, Peter didn't propose, so yeah. 

That was the unspoken question last night.  IF Peter would have said he was now ready to propose, would she have picked him the next day at the ceremony? 

Or, would she still have picked Bryan and only wanted/needed to know that F2 was truly into her and "willing" to propose?

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9 minutes ago, SallyAlbright said:

I think both are equally hilarious, but wasn't Bryan on that show in 2004? Also a long time ago and around when Peter was writing in his yearbook. 

Yes, one a minor and one an adult, but still, why talk about one but not the other when trying to discredit him?

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13 hours ago, 371012 said:

If I were Bryan watching this scene with Peter I would throw up in my mouth a little bit.

I would throw up a lot all over myself. 

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Kind of off topic: Since a number of posters in this thread have pointed out how hypocritical it would be of Peter if he agreed to become the next Bachelor (for which he is reported to be in talks) after stating multiple times that one cannot be expected to propose in such a short period of time, I would like to suggest: Blake Killpack for next bachelor.  I mean, we were teased with him in Rachel's season, and poof, he was gone.

On topic: Did anyone notice how Rachel never did confirm that her family had come around, with respect to Bryan as a fiance. Instead, she said it was a matter of them needing to get to know Bryan and that her family trusted her judgment.

Edited by adhoc
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I thought it was VERY interesting that Rachel said the places they're considering living are their current hometowns of Miami and Dallas -- or LA! LA?! Someone has show biz dreams, or maybe both of them . . .

I'm willing to bet that Dancing With The "Stars" has been in touch with Rachel. 

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1 hour ago, bk10 said:

I think the show became too focused on race. It brought out the ugly in a lot of people. 

You know that white people have a race too, right?  White shows are focused on race too, they're just focused on the white race.  They are focused on a race just as much as any other show, it's just not said out loud in those explicit terms. 

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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27 minutes ago, Palomar said:

That was the unspoken question last night.  IF Peter would have said he was now ready to propose, would she have picked him the next day at the ceremony? 

Or, would she still have picked Bryan and only wanted/needed to know that F2 was truly into her and "willing" to propose?

Peter told her he would just do it if she wanted it. I didn't believe it. But he claims he tried to see her the next day and she refused to see him. She cut the cord and didn't allow him to mess with her head any further. 

I just can't imagine her accepting a ring from peter. I personally don't think Peter was good to her on this show. There were so many red flags. IMO even during the fantasy date she has to ask him for a kiss. He just been ambivalent towards her, which is partly why she was drawn to him. She's used to guys treating her like peter did. 

Im no fan of peter. But I do think he felt guilty about the fact that he stayed so long even though he really didn't see a future with Rachel. Like many men, I believe he came on this show to promote himself, his business etc, and to get a shot at being the bachelor because why not. But the lead ended up liking him and he felt stuck. JMO everything about the peter and Rachel situation is so ugly and uncomfortable. If Rachel didn't have her  men/relationship issues and insecurities, they wouldn't have ended so bad.

 I do think we will see a different peter when he gets the bachelor gig and is around a woman he actually wants.

Edited by dirtypop90
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Saw Rachel and Bryan on GMA this morning.  Apparently they were stuck in traffic and their segment was shortened because of that.  They did a little "newlywed game" thing about how well do you know your partner in which it was revealed that Rachel's celebrity crush is Justin Bieber.  Really???  

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13 hours ago, Kira53 said:

Too much alcohol in Rachel's room.  If I saw that I would be worried.  It was a brief glimpse on the table/desk but that looked like future trouble.  She probably need that alcohol to deal with Bryan's mother.  Especially after Bryan's mother sees this episode and how Rachel was before with Peter and then the angry Rachel with Peter.  Bryan might be OK with it. I don't think the mother will be.

Totally thought she stomped Peter.  I guess he represented that old boyfriend that wouldn't marry her.  Isn't it funny that Bryan got the sloppy seconds?

 

13 hours ago, Kira53 said:

Too much alcohol in Rachel's room.  If I saw that I would be worried.  It was a brief glimpse on the table/desk but that looked like future trouble.  She probably need that alcohol to deal with Bryan's mother.  Especially after Bryan's mother sees this episode and how Rachel was before with Peter and then the angry Rachel with Peter.  Bryan might be OK with it. I don't think the mother will be.

Totally thought she stomped Peter.  I guess he represented that old boyfriend that wouldn't marry her.  Isn't it funny that Bryan got the sloppy seconds?

Yeah, I noticed all those bottles of booze. Yikes! I wonder if they were all empty?

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15 minutes ago, mtlchick said:

I thought it was VERY interesting that Rachel said the places they're considering living are their current hometowns of Miami and Dallas -- or LA! LA?!

I noticed that too although I think it was Bryan that said it.  I was like really stop it you two...you're embarrassing yourselves.

11 minutes ago, dirtypop90 said:

That was the unspoken question last night.  IF Peter would have said he was now ready to propose, would she have picked him the next day at the ceremony?

I think this was left unspoken because the answer was so obviously yes.  Peter just needed to give the word and it would have been all over.  

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1 hour ago, dleighg said:

I'm SO glad I decided to spoil myself before watching the damn 3 hours special. So now I don't have to. Thank you for saving me three hours of my life.

Choosing second favorite to get the proposal. Was really hoping she wasn't going to do that. Don't like Bryan one little bit.

Well I accidentally was spoiled by an article or tweet by a "real" friend of Rachel.  I would tune in periodically and found it horrendously boring.  It was obvious that Peter was her clear choice and then decided to get excited about Bryan.

I don't think race, for me anyway, had anything to do with the crap season we just saw.  I think Rachel is a well educated, highly competent attorney.  For her to go on this so-called game show was the first error.  To let them produce in such a way we had so many men that should have been screened out, was a travesty.  Each season it gets more and more gimmicky.

Did they announce the next bachelor?

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1 hour ago, bantering said:

Hilarious. I had no idea this is a thing guys actually aspired to. Weird.

I guess the kind of guy who aspires to be The Bachelor is the same type who would actually become a model, then get a two year associates degree as a dietician, so he can look down his nose at a man who has done a 4 year bachelor of science degree plus 2 year masters degree to become a Doctor of Chiropractic.  Sorry Peter, but your resume looks comparatively mediocre to me.

1 hour ago, bk10 said:

I think the show became too focused on race. It brought out the ugly in a lot of people. 

I think it was the show needlessly making it that way.  They didn't need to cast Lee or make him the center of attention, and really he's the only one who came across "ugly," to me.

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13 hours ago, bantering said:

I thought the "I'm living my best life" comment was fine. I don't get what's so offensive about it. She didn't throw a dis at him -- she simply contradicted the "mediocre life" comment.

she said it in a really shitty tone. That was the problem with it. She became a little bitch when she said it. This is why he felt attacked. He didn't remember saying it, apologized, and then in a bitchy tone she rubbed it into this face. "Oh I'm Not living a mediocre life, dude, I'm living the best life so fuck you" is how it came across."  Then she rolled her eyes. 

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18 minutes ago, mostlylurking said:

I noticed that too although I think it was Bryan that said it.  I was like really stop it you two...you're embarrassing yourselves.

I think this was left unspoken because the answer was so obviously yes.  Peter just needed to give the word and it would have been all over.  

It is surprising to me that people think this. To me there have been no signs she would've chosen peter over Bryan. Everything has been pointing to Bryan...the watch, the dates he gets, the fact that he met her friends, her reaction to him saying I love you the first time. Bryan has been in first place since the first night. IMO

I think she was incredibly frustrated and hurt by peter because she was played and she figured that out. She also thought he was the safer pick because Bryan scared her/was too good to be true.  She wanted the peter option because she didn't trust Bryan. But peter was actually the one playing her.

Edited by dirtypop90
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33 minutes ago, dirtypop90 said:

Peter told her he would just do it if she wanted it. I didn't believe it. But he claims he tried to see her the next day and she refused to see him. She cut the cord and didn't allow him to mess with her head any further. 

I just can't imagine her accepting a ring from peter. I personally don't think Peter was good to her on this show. There were so many red flags. IMO even during the fantasy date she has to ask him for a kiss. He just been ambivalent towards her, which is partly why she was drawn to him. She's used to guys treating her like peter did. 

Im no fan of peter. But I do think he felt guilty about the fact that he stayed so long even though he really didn't see a future with Rachel. Like many men, I believe he came on this show to promote himself, his business etc, and to get a shot at being the bachelor because why not. But the lead ended up liking him and he felt stuck. JMO everything about the peter and Rachel situation is so ugly and uncomfortable. If Rachel didn't have her  men/relationship issues and insecurities, they wouldn't have ended so bad.

 I do think we will see a different peter when he gets the bachelor gig and is around a woman he actually wants.

I think a previous poster nailed it when they said Rachel probably saw all of this when she watched it and that lightbulb moment filled her with frustration.

All along we thought Bryan was a player but after last night, I think the real player is Peter. He is the type to string you along with empty half promises (I really want to see the conversations that got left on the cutting room floor). He's the type who knows you aren't the one but is willing to stay in a relationship (timesuck!) until someone better comes along. You're thinking he just needs more time while he knows he's never planning to go any further. When you ask where it's going, he gets agitated and says you're pressuring him and should be happy to live in the moment.  When you try to move on, he still wants to be around you because he's used to you, not because he actually loves you.

 

Eta: @dirtypop90 Great minds!

Edited by ridethemaverick
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30 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

You know that white people have a race too, right?  White shows are focused on race too, they're just focused on the white race.  They are focused on a race just as much as any other show, it's just not said out loud in those explicit terms. 

I wasn't aware that they do

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6 minutes ago, Bellalisa said:

she said it in a really shitty tone. That was the problem with it. She became a little bitch when she said it. This is why he felt attacked. He didn't remember saying it, apologized, and then in a bitchy tone she rubbed it into this face. "Oh I'm Not living a mediocre life, dude, I'm living the best life so fuck you" is how it came across."  Then she rolled her eyes. 

 Maybe I think she sounded fine because I've seen so many way witchier women on this show. 

Peter did have  a somber face on, so I tend to think anyone would have looked a little wound up next to him. But overall her demeanour seemed kind of poised by this show's standards of weeping women. 

 

If someone told me I was living a mediocre life, I'd have gotten more agitated than she did. 

Edited by bantering
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Just now, ridethemaverick said:

I think a previous poster nailed it when they said Rachel probably saw all of this when she watched it and that lightbulb moment filled her with frustration.

All along we thought Bryan was a player but after last night, I think the real player is Peter. He is the type to string you along with empty half promises (I really want to see the conversations that got left on the cutting room floor). He's the type who knows you aren't the one but is willing to stay in a relationship (timesuck!) until someone better comes along. You're thinking he just needs more time while he knows he's never planning to go any further. When you ask where it's going, he gets agitated and says you're pressuring him and should be happy to live in the moment.  When you try to move on, he still wants to be around you because he's used to you, not because he actually loves you.

Yes yes yes. We actually both posted peter was the player this season at the same time (and I bet in real life) What's so funny is...peter was supposed to be the good safe guy but he actually wasn't safe at all.  he's the dude that will stand you up at the alter, after you've waited 5 yrs for him to make up his mind. and the guy pegged as the player turned out to be the one that was genuinely into her. Bryan and Rachel might not work but I'm convinced if she would've chosen peter she would've been miserable already. 

 

Peter's mother did try to warn Rachel he wasn't ready for marriage but a commitment of some sorts, which means just waste a woman's time really. 

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8 minutes ago, bantering said:

 Maybe I think she sounded fine because I've seen so many way witchier women on this show. 

Peter did have  a somber face on, so I tend to think anyone would have looked a little wound up next to him. But overall her demeanour seemed kind of poised by this show's standards of weeping women. 

 

If someone told me I was living a mediocre life, I'd have gotten more agitated than she did. 

Just because other woman have been bitchier it doesn't mean she didn't say it bitchy. I guess the eye roll and the snarky tone got to me. I do agree with you that overall her demeanour was poised, especially compared to some of the winners we've had. But I was explaining why the phrase itself "I'm enjoying my best life" is not so awful but if you watch it again it was the way she said it that made it kind of a rub-in. It was subtle for sure and right as going into commercial, but I heard snark and bitchiness. Not that I blame her. Although he forgot he said it and really was like he said in the heat of the moment so apologized.  Anyway why I'm wasting my time analyzing this shitty show I'll never know! They really have us sucked in to this stupidity!! 

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11 hours ago, comosedice said:

Isn't this exactly what she is doing? Taking it slow, getting to know the other person, and seeing where it goes? She's essentially dating Bryan and there is no guarantee it will end in marriage. Besides the ABC-bought jewelry, how's this different from what Peter offered?

Peter didn't offer the external signifier, which was for some reason extremely important to Rachel.  I think it's misguided, but that's just one of about a million reasons I'd make a terrible bachelorette.

 

10 hours ago, dirtypop90 said:

She's used to struggle relationships.

That's good, because I think "struggle" will be a mild word for what she's going to be going through as she inserts herself between Bryan and his mother.

 

3 hours ago, Jillibean said:

I will say this, though: ego aside, I think most bachelorettes who had made their choice about whom to be with would be relieved that the "runner-up" didn't want to propose. It 1) spares you having to let down someone who is down on one knee and 2) reinforces that you picked the right person. The fact that Rachel didn't demonstrate that relief at all makes me think she wasn't set on Bryan, despite what she says now.

Excellent point.  If Bryan is to believe that it was going to be him all along, then that means that Rachel's haranguing Peter to agree to propose shows a real cruel streak if she knew she was going to reject and humiliate him once he got down on his knee.

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4 hours ago, nlkm9 said:

I just looked--who are these people? dorinda?? maybe because im not on instagram??

I cant beleive I know this, but after the prince of dog food finale, he did go back and date one of the final 3. and of course Jason <yuk>

Oh right! I forgot about Jason. Ha

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12 hours ago, backformore said:

Chris asks Rachel to explain her emotions for Peter, she says "there's no denying that I didn't love Peter" .

I'm sorry, it's late, and I can't count all the negatives to figure out what it means to NOT DENY that you DON'T love someone. 

She said a lot of double negatives last night. She didn't realize that it means just the opposite . 2 negatives=positive . 

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20 minutes ago, dirtypop90 said:

Yes yes yes. We actually both posted peter was the player this season at the same time (and I bet in real life) What's so funny is...peter was supposed to be the good safe guy but he actually wasn't safe at all.  he's the dude that will stand you up at the alter, after you've waited 5 yrs for him to make up his mind. and the guy pegged as the player turned out to be the one that was genuinely into her. Bryan and Rachel might not work but I'm convinced if she would've chosen peter she would've been miserable already. 

 

Peter's mother did try to warn Rachel he wasn't ready for marriage but a commitment of some sorts, which means just waste a woman's time really. 

Two snaps and a twist to @dirtypop90 and @ridethemaverick on this. 

Peter is a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Peter is the worst kind of guy because he genuinely thinks he's a good guy. It's lost on him how deeply selfish and full of shit he is. He'll do just enough to keep the woman around, but send enough mixed messages that she stays confused. I do think a lot of Rachel's insecurities were at play with Peter - she was continuing to act out the dysfunction she had gone to therapy to stop. 

Edited by felicity porter
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1 hour ago, comosedice said:

The man is in his 30s. When are people going to stop bringing up something he said at 17? Also, how is it that nobody talks about Bryan's more recent appearance on a reality show about being a player?

People talked about Bryan's being on that show plenty (along with all the other things that made him the most horrible man in the world - sloppy seconds comment, lawsuit, he's apparently had cheek fillers with no one providing the proof, etc). Once it was discovered, people didn't pass up a chance to bring it up every chance they could. The double standard here isn't against Peter, it was against Bryan. Because every time Peter's yearbook comment came up (the few times it did), the response was pretty much akin to yours. Well he was 17 and Bryan was 24, so he was older. And "recent appearance" - the show was in 2004. That was thirteen years ago. That isn't recent. 

Edited by truthaboutluv
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23 minutes ago, Bellalisa said:

Just because other woman have been bitchier it doesn't mean she didn't say it bitchy. I guess the eye roll and the snarky tone got to me. I do agree with you that overall her demeanour was poised, especially compared to some of the winners we've had. But I was explaining why the phrase itself "I'm enjoying my best life" is not so awful but if you watch it again it was the way she said it that made it kind of a rub-in. It was subtle for sure and right as going into commercial, but I heard snark and bitchiness. Not that I blame her. Although he forgot he said it and really was like he said in the heat of the moment so apologized.  Anyway why I'm wasting my time analyzing this shitty show I'll never know! They really have us sucked in to this stupidity!! 

Maybe I just don't think she said it in a witchy way in general either. She said it the way I imagine a comment like that was meant to be said, as in "this is how I determine what my life is, not you." The words themselves call for some level of expression. Anytime I've seen someone say something like that, they tend to say it that particular way with some degree of emphasis. To say it in a flat manner of speaking (the way Peter seemed to be the whole evening) doesn't go with how the sentence is constructed, imo. 

 

On another note, I guess  he looked a little depressed, and  perhaps  that  makes people feel sorry for him, but I don't understand why any guy would go on  THIS particular show  if they think  they can  convince a woman not to want to  get engaged. The women who go one  this show go in with the mindset of nabbing a ring. The premise of the show is somewhat  like the idea of going for an arranged marriage....except with, er, sex and televised loud open-mouthed kissing.  Maybe she went for her second-choice,  as people have speculated, but sometimes that happens with arrangements.

Edited by bantering

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21 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

Excellent point.  If Bryan is to believe that it was going to be him all along, then that means that Rachel's haranguing Peter to agree to propose shows a real cruel streak if she knew she was going to reject and humiliate him once he got down on his knee.

That is a good point. 

Anywho, I will be curious to see if things work out for Bryan & Rachel. I still have zero read on Bryan's personality and how he actually complements her, but I guess time will tell. It is interesting that Bryan's positives are lost to excoriating Peter currently, so again, time will tell here.

Also, Justin Bieber as her celebrity crush is gross to me but is rather telling too. 

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3 hours ago, TheFinalRose said:

Maybe, but I didn't see it that way. I think Rachel by nature might enjoy an intense interchange of the kind she had with Peter. It might say more about her love of getting in there and arguing a point that she truly is invested in than it says about her love of Peter. 

I dunno.....I don't think so. It didn't seem like something she enjoyed at all. More frustrated and wishing it would just be easier regarding the proposal. Felt to me like a.....look, give me what I need so I can pick you. This is your last chance because it's tomorrow and I need to know whether to pick Bryan or not.

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