S07.E03: The Queen's Justice

[Mya Stone]

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Episode Synopsis: 

Daenerys holds court; Cersei returns a gift; Jamie learns from his mistakes.

[DirewolfPup]

Team Dany are really bad tacticians. They can't seem to do anything right.

[ChocButterfly]

Well, I thought that was a gentle way for Pretty Snake to die, considering everything. She could've had Septa Shame!'s luck.

How fickle are the people of King's Landing? Not so long ago we had the same people cheering on Cersei's Walk of Shame. Now they're cheering her as their Queen as well as Captain Urine Sparrow and celebrating the capture of some women they have no reason to dislike or even to know?

I must admit, if I were Dany, I'd also think Jon was crazy. Everything he says sounds like crazy talk. I wonder why Melissandre didn't mention he was resurrected. Smart of her to get the fuck outta there fast. I'm already seeing love sparkles between Dany and her nephew <3

Edited: forgot to mention Bran! Poor boy, he seems so old now. And tired. And disillusioned. Jaded. On the other hand, I'm liking Sansa in her new role. She seemed genuinely happy when she told Bran he was the rightful heir of Winterfell.

Edited July 31, 2017 by ChocButterfly

[janjan]

Bronn!! Yay! (With Jaime leading the army to High Garden). And Randyll Tarly,too. Boo!

Good-bye, Mrs. Peel. You were the best. Glad you told Jaime you killed the Joffs.

Adios as well to Ellaria and the little Snake. Good riddance.

What did Urine do with Yara after pulling her though the streets of KL?

Team Dany is shrinking fast. Arya will take Cersei down while Dany struts around being insufferable. You heard it here.

I'm done shipping Jon and Dany. He deserves better, like maybe Lady Mormont when she grows up.

Poor Sam, still stuck in that depressing citadel. But maybe he will find something useful in those old books, like something that kills WWs en masse. So we don't waste screen time on a Great Battle with those cartoon zombies.

Bran said he has news for Jon. I hope he gets to tell him.

[walnutqueen]

Wow - did I just watch one of the best (OK, maybe just seminal) episodes ever, or what?   Because everything I loved about GoT almost came together this evening.

I need to decompress and watch again (and again & again) with a less jaundiced eye, but judging from the unbridled excitement of Babalu kitty, who famously ignores everything after his intro theme song spanking, this episode elicited continuous Meows and shameless rolls for my attention.  That means I was totally captivated by something other than his silly old self - namely, this episode.

If you're old & have to swallow poison, make sure you wound the poisoner on your way out, eh.  Poor Jamie cannot hear a word of her warning, though, because he's been bewitched by his sister's .... charms ... for his entire sad life.  His sister will also be the death of him.  And I hope little brother & Varys live On and On.

Yikes - don't even get me started on the people I don't want to see die - I'm sure this show will eventually dash all my girlish dreams.

[gingerella]

Yeah, other than Dany managing to get the Dothraki Dregs and the Unsullied over to Westeros after 6 seasons, spthe girl has shit for luck and I can't say I am surprised about her Ironborn/Dorne disaster. Her bluster about ruling the 7 Kingdoms was odd to me given all her sputtering about breaking the wheel of rulers. Color me confuddled.

I have to admit I ff'd through the Ellaria and Pertty Snake scene because I thought we were in for a septa redux, and I cannot handle that sort of BS anymore. Did Cersei just kill her, and then Ellaria afterward? I assume so. Ellaria should be thankful given what could have happened. This damn show...

 

I am trying to put my head round the time frames of A Show nowadays...how the hell does Jon think he is going to mine and create enough dragonglass weaponry to stop the Army of the Dead and the WW? And did we actually see Jon get Sam's raven about the underground dragonglass mine? Mel was wise to piss off but I was a little lost at the convo between her and Varys. He was telling her to not come back, but she said they would both need or die in Westeros and Varys seemed to be taken aback at that news. Where else did he think he could die? I mean, he came back TO Westeros of his own free will for the good of the realm, yes?  I continue to lerve Sir Davos, that is all... 

When Melisandre asked Jon's team to turn over their weapons, did anyone else yell at their TV, NOOOO, Don't lose those swords, they're Valerian steel and can kill WWs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Brans homecoming was lackluster, eh? He had zero fucks to give over seeing Sansa again, that was sad to me. THe whole convo under the tree was sad. I still don't get whatBrans purpose is. If I think about the Rubick's Cube Theory, I think Bran has sort of become the grease that allows the cube's various parts move and shift until they are all in the correct alignment, if that makes any sense. IT barely makes sense to me, but I think there is something to that thinking.

 

Lovd Olenna's final fuck you to Jamie and Cersei. I love that she went out flipping them the biggest bird she could. Atta girl Mrs. Peel, atta girl!

 

Assume Jorah will head back to Dragonstone now, and since Dany trusts him, perhaps he will  be th one to get her to align with Jon and stop with the fealty bullshit. I also don't think Jorah will make it to the end, I think h will die for Danny's cause. I sort of wish he could meet Lady Lyanna first though, and see his House legacy in action.

 

Sam is gonna have to learn his stuff lickety split and shoe off back to WInterfell soon. I too h will end up departing with key books hidden in his robes so he can refer to them Once back at WInterfell. 

[ChocButterfly]

I think Captain Urine Sparrow has the same teleporter as Littleffinger. He sneaked on Yara's fleet. Then he returned to KL, paraded around town and then still had time to reach Casterly Rock and sneak on the Unsullied!

I don't know why Bran would be deliberately cruel to Sansa, but that whole " You were so beautiful the first nigth you were raped" was creepy as hell. WTF, Bran?

I loved how Olenna drank that poison super fast before she told Jaimie she had Joffrey killed. Jaimie is such an idiot. And I still don't care how much the show wants to redeem him and make us think he is a good guy. The man still pushed a little boy down a window and has never, NEVER, expressed any remorse. Fuck you Jaimie, I still hate you, you're such an anabler idiot.

Edited to add: Who bets that there is going to be Very Important Information about the WW in those manuscripts Sam has to copy?

Edited July 31, 2017 by ChocButterfly

[Pallas]

9 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

Wow - did I just watch one of the best (OK, maybe just seminal) episodes ever, or what?

Plot-plot-plot yet yes, enthralling and moving because we know these people -- because of all the character-work done before, by writers and actors -- and we ride with them. 

 

10 hours ago, DirewolfPup said:

Team Dany are really bad tacticians. They can't seem to do anything right.

It's looking like Olenna was right. Team Dany is led by the younger brother of Twin Cersei, who (1) has been a military man his whole life, and a veteran: this is his third rebellion; and (2) loved Tyrion well enough to guess how how he thinks. And (3), knows Cersei is not entirely wrong that Tyrion would relish overthrowing the symbol of his family's power and influence. (Was Tyrion already fled to Essos when the news came about the depleted Lannister mines?) 

I can also see how Tyrion would make for a far better defensive than offensive tactician. Standing his ground and repelling attack are the core of his genius for survival. But the taking of the Seven Kingdoms is not (only) a conflict for survival; it's a conquest. Of armies, first, and only then, of hearts. Meanwhile Jaime may have been a slow learner, but he can learn. Many things; not all.

Ging, Cersei had both Ellaria and daughter chained in the Red Keep, where after telling Ellaria she pitied and identified with her when the Mountain killed Oberyn, she condemned Ellaria for murdering Myrcella. She then kissed the daughter, wiped her mouth clean and swallowed down the antidote handed her by Qyburn. The daughter will die while her mother watches, then rot while her mother watches. Ellaria, said Cersei, will live her life in this cell with her daughter's bones. 

10 hours ago, ChocButterfly said:

I must admit, if I were Dany, I'd also think Jon was crazy. Everything he says sounds like crazy talk. 

I agree: it was a near-impossible mission, that Jon was right to conclude only a fellow monarch could undertake (and, specifically, him. Because.) 

9 hours ago, janjan said:

Bran said he has news for Jon. I hope he gets to tell him.

But first, let's use that Fire-and-Ice chemistry to advance the cause. (And so, to Melisandre goes the honor of first sounding the name of the saga.)

And, Sansa now has an uncanny, invaluable ally in Bran. One who can -- with certainty -- do exactly what Littlefinger was advocating to Sansa: see in all directions, view from all perspectives, dwell in all circumstances and outcomes at once. I love Baelish's expression when then, Sansa was called to come to the gates.  Meera is also now at Winterfell: a Howland to a Stark, and a second woman warrior as an ally. Will Brienne welcome her or suspect her?

10 hours ago, ChocButterfly said:

Poor boy, he seems so old now. And tired. And disillusioned. Jaded.

The Three-Eyed Raven has now has witnessed every primal scene in the universe. Yet still hasn't heard the end of Tyrion's jackass joke. 

[walnutqueen]

58 minutes ago, Pallas said:

Plot-plot-plot yet yes, enthralling and moving because we know these people -- because of all the character-work done before, by writers and actors -- and we ride with them. 

Yes, I watch TV, so I've been well inoculated against a well reasoned plotline.  I am also easily distracted by shiny objects and pretty things.  SQUIRREL!!!

For once, I wasn't totally turned off by Littlefinger's bloviating ... does this mean I need to get my head examined?

[WhiteStumbler]

Cersei's vengeance on Mom Snake is taking the worst thing Cersei can imagine, a vision that haunted her, and making it real for her prisoner. At the very beginning of last season...

Cersei: All I could think about when she died was what would happen to her now. Every day, every night, what does Mama look like now? Has she started to bloat? Has her skin turned black? Have her lips peeled back from her teeth? I think about locking Myrcella in a crypt. I think about her beautiful little face starting to collapse.

She has condemned Mom Snake to live out this dark Queen's Justice in reality.

[janjan]

11 hours ago, gingerella said:

I am trying to put my head round the time frames of A Show nowadays

No, Ginger, noooooo! That way lies madness!

Remember when dead-looking Uncle Benjen explained why he couldn't come with Bran and Meera. He said there are spells built into the wall, such that the dead cannot pass. It would be kind of a let-down to find that the Army of the Dead can't get over the wall after all, after all Jon's emo'ing about the threat. But maybe the old spells need to be activated, and that's what Sam will find in the old books. So Sam will high-tail it back up to the wall, with Gilly and Little Sam in tow as always, and say the Patronus to activate the spells. Then the Dead will storm the wall, and fall back in great numbers with a sizzle sizzle snap snap like a great white bug zapper.

That will be more fun than yet another massive battle scene, and it will allow A Show to get back to the eponymous game of thrones -- Iron, Salt, and whatever the Dragonstone one is called.

I wanted Jaime to somehow be redeemed, but not after he killed Mrs. Peel. Now I want Nymeria to get him. Take that, Queen-of-Thorns slayer. May she be avenged.

Edited July 31, 2017 by janjan

[gingerella]

Good points one and all!

Janjan, I hear Jamie...killing Lady Olenna was the last straw. I too would like Nymeria to tear him limb from limb.

I hadn't thought about Sam reactivating the spells of the Wall so the dead cannot pass. I like that possibility very much indeed, and it plays into Sam's redemptive arc from fat buffoon hat d by his own father, to savior of the 7 kingdoms and possibly even beyond. It ain't over til the fat man sings (the spells of the Wall)...

Ellarias fate is pretty horrible I'd say, and it shows now where Jeff got his sadistic side from. The only difference between Joff and Cersei-Dearest is that Joff was at least very overt about it and didn't pretend to be something he isn't not, while Cersei pretends it's all for the good of the 7kingdoms, which is bullshit.

 

I do want  to scold A Show for a moment, if I may...Do any fellow spitballers remember vintage James Bond films vs. newer James Bond films? THe old films always had these between scenes where real life stuff like eating, playing cards, flirting, etc. went on and there was a lot of interesting inuendo in those moments. SAdly now, new Bond films are just one giant chase scene connected to one giant fight scene, rinse and repeat, no more in between scenes. I feel like A Show has sadly stooped to this low bar now. I think it is a lazy out that the showrunners  shortened th last two seasons and we barely get a little bit more than one normal season in total. THere is no way all that this story needs to resolve will be resolved sAtisfactorily at this speedy, raced pace. IT feels cheap, and it feels like they got a new series to create so they just want to race through and finish this one ASAP. A Viewer is feeling very disgruntled. I do not appreciate being dragged through to the end like this.

[janjan]

I hear you about the pacing,Ginger -- it's kind of breakneck. Like the later Jason Bourne movies, compared with the first. But it doesn't bother me as much in GoT, for two reasons. First, A Show has been building characterizations and plot lines for six seasons now, partly through those little moments. So characters and plot are now ripe and ready to burst out in full bloom. Second, they do manage to get a few sly moments in, though, as you say,not as many as before. Who can forget those priceless chats between LF and Varys? Ah, those were the days. Not as great but still good are such little moments as (paraphrasing):

Missandei: You are in the presence of Daenyris Stormborn, Queen of [long list]

Davos: Uh, this is Jon Snow. <flustered pause> He's King in the North.

 

Tyrion to Jon: You look better brooding than I do.

 

Jaime: I've learned from my mistakes.

Olenna: You must be very wise by now.

[Llywela]

Dammit, I'd just typed a whole huge post and then it got accidentally deleted. Bugger. Lemme see if I can remember anything I said!

I really enjoyed this episode. It was fast-paced and exciting, with a lot of entertaining dialogue to boot, and it really feels like a lot of sub-plots are beginning to come together at last. I especially enjoyed seeing Jon's reunion with Tyrion after so many years and seasons! Such polar opposites, and yet once upon a time they found common ground and mutual respect, and in this political climate that's almost like being old friends. Jon being such a serious-minded character, he works well playing opposite Tyrion's humour and sarcasm, and seeing them come together again all these seasons later really drove home the point of how much they've both been through and how much they've both changed, even while remaining so very much who they always were.

Jon's long-anticipated meeting with Dany was fun, too – a bit talky, perhaps, but given their personalities I think that was always going to be the case, and again, they are polar opposites yet there is common ground between them, so I really enjoyed seeing them at loggerheads, with Tyrion trying so hard to facilitate an alliance that is quite frankly much needed on both sides. And bless him, poor Davos is so ill-suited to a diplomatic role at court – the contrast between his gruff, plain-spoken approach and the slick presentation of Dany's people is stark. His gruff, plain-spoken approach makes him almost uniquely well suited to serving Jon, however, they are really well matched in that sense, and Davos seems to really need to believe in someone and serve that someone, perhaps all the more so since he's lost his son (a loss not mentioned, even though the battle was brought up).

I'm curious to know why Jon doesn't want the story of his murder and resurrection to be told. I mean, if it was Dany, she'd be all over it, would take it as proof of her divine destiny and add it to her list of titles, but Jon seems almost embarrassed by it, doesn't want anyone to know.

I thought Varys's interruption of that awkward first interview, scurrying in with bad news, was impeccably well timed – giving everyone a bit of breathing space to regroup and take stock. I'm finding the timeline a bit mind-bending, however – sometimes news travels impossibly fast, other times weirdly slow, some people seem able to teleport around at will, it's all a bit of a mess in that regard!

Um. What else? I was disappointed by Bran's return to Winterfell! Sansa was so happy to see him, but he seemed not to care about anything in the slightest. And I get it, he's been through a lot, he always was a bit on the weirdly spiritual side, but I miss the bright, bubbly little boy he used to be – becoming the Three-Eyed Raven seems to have stripped him off all human emotion. He wasn't this weird or emotionally detached even as recently as last season. Also, he could have explained himself better! I mean, when Sansa was confused about his reference to the Three-Eyed Raven being dead when he'd called himself the Three-Eyed Raven, he just dismissed the question completely as too complicated for her to understand – it really isn't complicated at all! All he had to say was, "the old one died, so now I have to take his place," and she would understand completely. She might not know what the Three-Eyed Raven is or what it means, but she can understand how succession works!

Final thought: for a man who is supposed to be a noble, raised in the saddle, What's-His-Name Tarly sure looked uncomfortable on his horse!

[ChocButterfly]

I have a question, why was Varys so worried about Mel's prediction that he would die in Westeros? Ummmm, he lives in Westeros and has lived there for decades now, where does he think he's dying?? Is not like she said soon or this year, she said "One day". Drama queen.

6 hours ago, Llywela said:

Also, he could have explained himself better! I mean, when Sansa was confused about his reference to the Three-Eyed Raven being dead when he'd called himself the Three-Eyed Raven, he just dismissed the question completely as too complicated for her to understand – it really isn't complicated at all! All he had to say was, "the old one died, so now I have to take his place," and she would understand completely. She might not know what the Three-Eyed Raven is or what it means, but she can understand how succession works!

Yeah, it's like he was purposely being a jerk. Plus, I have no idea why he isn't telling Sansa annd everyone that needs to know, everything about the Army of the Dead and the Night King. Surely he could at least say where they are so the North can be better prepared! 

Also, I really think they should assign a special team to capture one of those zombies, so they can send the zombie locked up in a cage to Dany. That is the only way she may believe how real the whole Dead Army is.

[janjan]

2 hours ago, ChocButterfly said:

Also, I really think they should assign a special team to capture one of those zombies, so they can send the zombie locked up in a cage to Dany. That is the only way she may believe how real the whole Dead Army is.

Given Dany's military success so far, the North would probably be better off without her. They only needed the dragonglass, so just get Jon, Davos, and Tyrion outta there and let her prance around proclaiming herself Queen of Whatever. And maybe take a dragon or two. Why Tyrion, you ask, when it was his strategy that has failed so miserably? Because he's fun, that's why. :-)

Who will inherit the Iron Throne when Arya kills Cersei? I nominate Varys. He told my Oberyn <sniff> that he didn't want to be king, but then he just told Melisandre that power once tasted becomes addictive. So maybe he'll relent and accept, if only to keep Baelish at bay.

He did look worried when Mel told him he'd die in Westeros, as Choc observed. Dunno why, unless he was actually worried that she would be back. He's no fan of her magic.

BTW, how is Mel planning to get to Volantis, with no money or even Unemployment Compensation for the fare? Maybe her horse who can live on no food can also fly.

[gingerella]

1 hour ago, janjan said:

BTW, how is Mel planning to get to Volantis, with no money or even Unemployment Compensation for the fare? Maybe her horse who can live on no food can also fly.

Maybe Gendry is waiting in a little boat, to row her away...?

4 hours ago, ChocButterfly said:

Also, I really think they should assign a special team to capture one of those zombies, so they can send the zombie locked up in a cage to Dany. That is the only way she may believe how real the whole Dead Army is.

You'd think she'd have more mental space to believe this shit given that she is "mother" to three fucking dragons, yanno? Hello? Disbelief, it's me, the Night King, just wanted to know how it's going down there in the South..."

1 hour ago, janjan said:

Who will inherit the Iron Throne when Arya kills Cersei? I nominate Varys. He told my Oberyn <sniff> that he didn't want to be king, but then he just told Melisandre that power once tasted becomes addictive. So maybe he'll relent and accept, if only to keep Baelish at bay.

I fear that that trainwreck, Urine, will try to make a grab for it unless someone takes him out soon. Though i doubt that will happen because A Show can just never let us be without a heinous piece of shit character for more than a couple of episodes...

[Llywela]

5 hours ago, gingerella said:

You'd think she'd have more mental space to believe this shit given that she is "mother" to three fucking dragons, yanno? Hello? Disbelief, it's me, the Night King, just wanted to know how it's going down there in the South..."

I know, right! They kind of danced around the point that once upon a time no one believed in dragons and now here they are, therefore all bets are off, but no one really stressed that point as much as they perhaps should have.

Maybe that's why Jon doesn't want the story of his resurrection told - because his claims are already so outlandish, he doesn't want to add more to the heap!

I've been struck by the tremendous loss of life in these last episodes - the Greyjoy fleet wiped out along with most of their men, the Tyrell army wiped out as Highgarden was taken by the Lannisters - and it reminded me of Jon and Tormund trying to reckon up their men last season, the numbers dwindling with every battle. How do these people keep finding more cannon fodder for their armies? Sooner or later they are going to run out of red shirts, surely?

I was also struck in this episode by the way Dany talked about the Dothraki to Jon and Davos, showing off her loyal barbarians almost like prize pets, look what I've got, and I longed for the days when we knew some of the Dothraki personally, so that they were actual characters rather than just a faceless brown barbarian mass for this white woman to show off. I can understand why the show might not want to introduce new characters at this late stage, but the story would be stronger for it. Besides, now I've thought about it I can see what beautiful comedy we've missed out on - imagine Grey Worm trying to find common ground with a Dothraki warrior, as fellow trusted advisors of their mutual queen!

[Glory]

Well, I must say. I was completely enthralled by watching this episode. No looking at my phone. Even my pad thai was left to get cool as I watched. 

I was happy to see as much conversation as we did. But I did think that I sometimes just want to SLAP Dany. Her ego is so large at this point, that seeing her thwarted by Cersei was actually slightly rewarding! How did that happen? 

Jon's face when he first saw the dragons was priceless. And I enjoyed his conversations with Tyrion very much. I hope he can get a boatload of Dragon Glass and just start shipping it north. 

Seeing Sansa do so well at leading Winterfell redeemed her for me from last week. She was a spoiled girl in her youth, but it's obvious she knows quite a bit about the running of her keep and seeing her put that into action was gratifying. Her reaction to Bran was wonderful. 

I'm still wondering if Arya is actually heading north. I feel as if her conversation with Nymeria is what left me to believe that might have turned BACK around to go south again. But with Sansa and Bran in Winterfell, I'd really like for her to get there soon. 

The timeline is driving me nuts though. How long has it been since Cersei blew up the sept? WHY ISN'T HER HAIR GROWING? Is she choosing to keep it short? I AM SO CONFUSED!

All those keeps look the same from the outside. I didn't realize Jaime was in Highgarden until we saw Olenna. Bad ass to the end. RIP. 

[Llywela]

I've been having some further thoughts about the spreading of news across Westeros, and who knows what. Because up until Sansa and Theon escaped from the Bolton-held Winterfell, the world at large believed that both Bran and Rickon Stark were dead. Since then Rickon has died for real - but up until his arrival at Castle Black the other week, the only proof anyone had that Bran might still be alive was Theon's statement that he murdered someone else instead. The northerners have not exactly been in close communication with anyone outside of their little circle. Yet this week, Dany distinctly remarked to Jon that she'd heard he had lost two brothers as well. Two - that's Robb and Rickon. So Bran is apparently known by Dany's people not to be dead. They've only just arrived in Westeros, so I'm wondering when and how exactly that little titbit of information reached them? Varys's little birds? Does he really still have that network in operation, after everything?

Also, when Dany made that remark about people liking what they are good at, and Jon immediately said that he doesn't like what he's good at, I was reminded of him saying last week that although he'd accepted his role as king in the north for the sake of all the bannermen etc who wanted him to lead them, he never wanted the title or the responsibility. And now I'm having visions of Psychic Bran telling everyone that Rhaegar Targaryen was secretly married to Lyanna Stark, making Jon the rightful heir of the Seven Kingdoms, and Jon being absolutely horrified at the thought of it!

Edited August 2, 2017 by Llywela

[Anothermi]

2 hours ago, Llywela said:

And now I'm having visions of Psychic Bran telling everyone that Rhaegar Targaryen was secretly married to Lyanna Stark, making Jon the rightful heir of the Seven Kingdoms, and Jon being absolutely horrified at the thought of it!

LOL, Lywella. Not only would he be forced to rule the Seven Kingdoms, but he would have to join the pantheon of characters who scream "Noooooooooooo......." in gifs all over the internet.

[janjan]

Jon on the throne would be fun (for everyone except him). But Rhaegar was married to the Dornish princess -- I forget her name, but she was the sister of my beloved Oberyn and the reason he got himself killed, trying to get the Mountain to admit he done bad. Is it possible that the princess was dead before Jon was conceived, and that therefore his parents might have been married? I guess anything is possible in the weird GoT timeline.

[Anothermi]

On 2017-07-30 at 7:29 PM, ChocButterfly said:

forgot to mention Bran! Poor boy, he seems so old now. And tired. And disillusioned. Jaded.

Yes, I agree. But he is now being shown to have accepted that he IS the Three-Eyed-Raven. (Old Nan would have understood what that meant, I'll bet, even if Sansa didn't.) It was a heavy burden for his mentor (Root Dude) and HE had thousands of years to learn the job. Bran has gotta cram.like.mad! He's gotta know EVERYTHING.

On 2017-07-30 at 10:14 PM, gingerella said:

Brans homecoming was lackluster, eh? He had zero fucks to give over seeing Sansa again, that was sad to me. THe whole convo under the tree was sad. I still don't get whatBrans purpose is.

It's true that the homecoming was lackluster from a family point of view, but as I mentioned above, Bran has a big job ahead of him (to be revealed later I have no doubt). We know that going into those trances takes a physical toll on Bran's already feeble body, and HE knows that he has to get a handle on his gift in a much shorter time than the previous 3 eyed raven expected (due to impulsive Bran's actions, so he has to atone (?) for that as well). He told (somebody - Sansa?) this episode that he sees the past and the future, but in snatches. He can't yet make them all relate to one another. If he can't see the whole picture (or perhaps movie) he'll be of no more use than Mellisandre - who saw snippets of things in the fire and "interpreted" them to disastrous results. He could make things worse.

When Sansa and Bran reunited I found myself thinking that his non-reaction was partly due to the fact that he will most likely have already seen not only her life experience to that point, but what it will be in the future! She, on the other hand, didn't even know he was still alive, much less what he's been through.

We know, from the bits  we got to see last season, when Bran was being guided by ol' 3 eyes, that his initial reaction to seeing the happy days of yore of his father made him happy. IF his 1st vision of Sansa's life was a happy one, he would have felt the same way. But we know that he has seen all the horrors she lived through. He knew them as if he were there, and I know I was shell shocked by everything this story put her through. Why would he NOT have to find a coping mechanism to continue seeing all the wonderful AND all the horrific things he has to see if he is to learn Everything! His description of seeing Ramsey rape her was chilling, but I could understand 1) that he showed her compassion for what Ramsey did to her, and 2) why he focused on how beautiful she was. He had to have a way just to get through it. He knows it happened, but he has to detach or he'll get lost in all the emotions. He is still a very young man.

I see his journey and Arya's (and their Direwolves') to be similar. They each are destined to play a particular role in this game. Arya pursued and built her role and Bran had it thrust upon him. But neither will veer from the path they are on (much as I might wish Arya would).

We've also seen that Arya's direwolf made her own way in the world. Chose her pack, led it and will not give it up. Doesn't mean she can't assist Arya if it come to that, but that's not her path. She no longer fetches gloves and puts them in a bag (heh, she rebelled at the very next order to do so - "that's not me" was her body language). Bran's direwolf died fighting to keep his charge (Bran) safe, to buy him time. I will not be surprised if that is what Bran has to do before the story ends. Bran's charge, I think, is everybody who isn't the army of the dead. But I will probably cry if that happens.

(Side Note on the other Direwolves:

Robb's direwolf fought beside him and was slaughtered at the Red Wedding with him (where they became one).

Rickon and his wolf were betrayed and both murdered as pawns in the game.

Sansa was left alone in a nest of vipers, to fend for herself. Her direwolf, the first to be caught in that nest, was not able to save herself, but stood as a lesson for Sansa to learn from.

Jon's direwolf was a "lone wolf". He did his own thing as he saw fit. He was there for Jon, sure, but he also went his own way. Sounds just like Jon to me. Still, they seem to be a team - of equals.

 

Back to the Bran/Sansa meeting. I did also feel for Sansa because it would have to be impossible for her to understand how he could have seen what she went through and not seen how awful it was for her. I had to remind myself that Bran has seen much more than she will ever know. Talking about that let her know that he DID understand what she'd been through but didn't let her understand what he's been through. I thought she reacted  well. She was... confused... but not judgemental. She's a good sister.

More on other scenes later.

Edited August 3, 2017 by Anothermi
add who Bran's "charge" is

[gingerella]

Anothermi, that was a brilliant post! I love your interpretation of Bran's homecoming, it makes his demeanor make soooo much more sense to me.

And the dire wolves stuff is fabulous, THANK YOU!

I was thinking...it's time for us to do another Valerian Steel tally, given that we've seen Knifey! in S7/E01 and we know that Jon is going to mine Dragonglass for weaponry:

Valerian Steel Round-Up 2017

1. Knifey! - MIA but clearly a key player in the war against the Night King

2. Needle - isn't Valerian steel, correct?

3. Brienne's sword - it's Jorah's Valerian steel sword, yes?

4. Jon's sword - its Valerian steel, yes?

5. Jamie's sword - its Valerian steel, yes?

6. Sam's House Tarley sword - it's Valerian steel, yes?

Anyone care to weigh in on the above and add to the list? It would be interesting if all the Stark kids ended up having Valerian steel weapons...

Edited August 3, 2017 by gingerella

[Anothermi]

6 minutes ago, gingerella said:

I was thinking...it's time for us to do another Valerian Steel tally, given that we've seen Knifey! in S7/E01 and we know that Jon is going to mine Dragonglass for weaponry:

Valerian Steel Round-Up 2017

1. Knifey! - MIA but clearly a key player in the war against the Night King

2. Needle - isn't Valerian steel, correct?

3. Brienne's sword - it's Jordan's Valerian steel sword, yes?

4. Jon's sword - its Valerian steel, yes?

5. Jamie's sword - its Valerian steel, yes?

6. Sam's House Tarley sword - it's Valerian steel, yes?

Anyone care to weigh in on the above and add to the list? It would be interesting if all the Stark kids ended up having Valerian steel weapons...

A LIST! I love me some lists.

Of the swords listed, only Arya's in not confirmed to be Valyrian Steel. The Winterfell blacksmith, Mikken,  made it on Jon's behest and I don't think Jon said anything about Valyrian Steel. He just told her it wasn't a toy.

All the rest have been declared as made of Valyrian Steel.

Brienne's sword was made from Ned's great (big) sword by Tywin. (I'm not sure who the Jordan is you mentioned? Did you mean Jorah? Jon has the Mormont anscestral sword.)

Jaime admitted to having Joffrey's sword, so he has a bit of Ned's karma with him. Which bit (the always doing the wrong thing for the right reasons, or being a good man) remains to be seen.

Li'l Finger has been relatively quiet of late, so I suspect he will probably be the one who ends up with Knifey. Just because it would piss us off.

[Anothermi]

On 2017-07-30 at 8:03 PM, janjan said:

Bronn!! Yay! (With Jaime leading the army to High Garden). And Randyll Tarly,too. Boo!

(Ok, sorry for the multiple consecutive posts, but I have some time to reply to all the wonderful posts above now.)

Yay for Bronn! He seems to make a good team with either of the Lannister boys. Always entertaining at least. I couldn't help but see the irony of the two of them now being on the opposite side to their respective earlier team mates. Brienne / Jaime and Bronn / Tyrion. Hopefully we'll get something worthwhile if it comes to either pair having to fight each other. And I'm not talking action packed but conflicted (see Jon Snow/Ygritte).

On 2017-07-31 at 5:55 AM, ChocButterfly said:

I think Captain Urine Sparrow has the same teleporter as Littleffinger. He sneaked on Yara's fleet. Then he returned to KL, paraded around town and then still had time to reach Casterly Rock and sneak on the Unsullied!

Yah. That's the part of the show that strained my credulity. Casterly Rock (it did look formidable) is on the complete opposite side of Westeros from King's Landing. Urine sailed part way south on the King's Landing side, destroyed Yara's fleet and returned to King's Landing to gloat. THEN he set off again to go to the opposite side of Westeros and he caught up with the ships that left a number of days before him?

I'll grant that his huge galleons may move fast (weather permitting), but still!  (Those sails are awesome)

And who's ships did the Unsullied travel in? Greyjoy ships? Who was in charge of them? Did Dany have more ships built before she headed to Westeros? I think I remember a conversation where she said she had the sails painted with her sigil. I just can't remember how she got the ships. These two upsets to Tyrion's Dany's plans, and so inexplicably easily done, make my head hurt. Is someone feeding Cersei intel. Were there little birds starving on Dragonstone all this time (installed by Qyburn)?

Oh. And that sets me off on a Qyburn tangent. I need to know his backstory more in depth than that he was kicked out of the Citadell. Sam could easily be kicked out too. He just performed an operation he was forbidden to perform. We know who Sam is and why he would have a good reason for doing something that would get him kicked out. We know that even the Hound has a backstory that explains his earlier atrocities. What's the story with Qyburn?

ETA: Speaking of Casterly Rock. I loved the call back to the Battle of Blackwater and Tyrion's intimate knowledge of sewer systems. He even told us (Varys) back then that  he learned that at Casterly Rock because that was all his father thought he was fit to do. Yet Still, I wouldn't have thought of that if the show hadn't made him repeat the story.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Anothermi
add Master of Sewers bit

[Llywela]

6 hours ago, janjan said:

Jon on the throne would be fun (for everyone except him). But Rhaegar was married to the Dornish princess -- I forget her name, but she was the sister of my beloved Oberyn and the reason he got himself killed, trying to get the Mountain to admit he done bad.

Yeah, I know Rhaegar was already married - but this is Westeros, where Sansa's marriage to Tyrion could be declared null and void simply so she could be married off to Ramsay instead. In the turmoil of war, what was to stop Rhaegar denouncing his first marriage - or even taking a second wife?

Improbable, I know, I just love the mental image of Jon it conjures up!

 

5 minutes ago, Anothermi said:

And who's ships did the Unsullied travel in? Greyjoy ships? Who was in charge of them? Did Dany have more ships built before she headed to Westeros? I think I remember a conversation where she said she had the sails painted with her sigil. I just can't remember how she got the ships.

Dany captured a whole armada over in Essos last season - the slave owners revolted while she was away with the Dothraki, but she returned with her dragons just in time to defeat them and capture their ships, thus finally acquiring the resources she needed for her assault on Westeros.

[Anothermi]

32 minutes ago, Llywela said:

Dany captured a whole armada over in Essos last season - the slave owners revolted while she was away with the Dothraki, but she returned with her dragons just in time to defeat them and capture their ships, thus finally acquiring the resources she needed for her assault on Westeros.

 Ah, Thanks. Llywella. That's what I get for only re-watching Season 6 to episode 2!   >.<

The problems with the timing of Urine defeating both Yara's and GreyWorm's fleets are enough without adding to them due to bad memory and insufficient preparation.

Edited August 3, 2017 by Anothermi
explanation

[janjan]

10 hours ago, Anothermi said:

Of the swords listed, only Arya's in not confirmed to be Valyrian Steel. The Winterfell blacksmith, Mikken,  made it on Jon's behest and I don't think Jon said anything about Valyrian Steel. He just told her it wasn't a toy.

Gendry said of Needle, "This is castle-forged steel." So presumably not Valyrian.

[Anothermi]

On 2017-07-31 at 6:39 AM, Pallas said:

Plot-plot-plot yet yes, enthralling and moving because we know these people -- because of all the character-work done before, by writers and actors -- and we ride with them. 

Welcome Back, Pallas! So glad you made it back safely. Well put (above). I've personally been finding this season a little too fast moving (plot-wise) for comfort. I guess I've gotten used to the slow (in some cases, like Dany, glacial) pace the show took up 'til the end of S05. There truly was a LOT of nuanced and small but telling scenes that developed characters. It's also disquieting to have our wishes - for revenge (Arya), for lost characters found (Benjen), for Starks re-uniting - granted. And so satisfyingly.

On 2017-07-31 at 6:39 AM, Pallas said:

It's looking like Olenna was right. Team Dany is led by the younger brother of Twin Cersei, who (1) has been a military man his whole life, and a veteran: this is his third rebellion; and (2) loved Tyrion well enough to guess how how he thinks. And (3), knows Cersei is not entirely wrong that Tyrion would relish overthrowing the symbol of his family's power and influence. (Was Tyrion already fled to Essos when the news came about the depleted Lannister mines?) 

I'm still not clear who's in charge of Cersei's battle plans. She isn't a bad tactician in her own right. But we were shown Jaime quietly pressuring Randal Tarly onto Cersei's side, so your analysis may be correct.

I couldn't remember the answer to the bolded part, so Iooked it up. Cersei and Tywin have their conversation about the depleted Lannister gold reserves in the middle of Season 5, after Tommen becomes King and while Tyrion is imprisoned. I don't recall Cersei telling Jaime - who is the only Tyrion-visitor who might tell him. However, it is possible that Varys may still have learned of this which would mean that Tyrion/Dany know by now.

On 2017-07-31 at 6:39 AM, Pallas said:

And, Sansa now has an uncanny, invaluable ally in Bran. One who can -- with certainty -- do exactly what Littlefinger was advocating to Sansa: see in all directions, view from all perspectives, dwell in all circumstances and outcomes at once. I love Baelish's expression when then, Sansa was called to come to the gates.  Meera is also now at Winterfell: a Howland to a Stark, and a second woman warrior as an ally. Will Brienne welcome her or suspect her?

Loved the juxtaposition of those scenes! Do you think Balish was suggesting that HE was the one who could do what he advocated? Probably. If we didn't know about Bran, it might even seem plausible that Li'l Finger could come close to what he laid out.

I'm pretty sure that Bran's purpose is exactly to "see in all directions, view from all perspectives, dwell in all circumstances and outcomes at once" and I believe that the show is trying to convey that he is working hard at mastering that, but he still is unable to master it. I feel vindicated in my rant (back in S04) to Root Dude that he should concentrate on teaching Bran techniques for mastering his gift instead of taking him on the family-history-tour. Yes, I know that was for our benefit, and perhaps the admonitions to not!linger! and get caught up in emotions WERE the technique. Surely there is more to it than that!

Regarding Brienne's reaction to Meera. Meera clearly serves Bran - in a similar fashion to the way Brienne serves Sansa - but with less armour. I trust Brienne to recognize a kindred spirit.

On 2017-07-31 at 6:39 AM, Pallas said:

The Three-Eyed Raven has now has witnessed every primal scene in the universe. Yet still hasn't heard the end of Tyrion's jackass joke. 

Annnnnnnd. THANKS FOR THE BELLY LAUGH. <standing O>

 

On 2017-07-31 at 8:31 AM, WhiteStumbler said:

She has condemned Mom Snake to live out this dark Queen's Justice in reality.

Ah, WhiteStumbler. Your post zeroed in on my weak point - connecting the episode title to the episode content. Thanks so much for pointing out the link to that rather low key (by Cersei standards) reaction to Myrcella's death. Her punishment was as out-there as one would expect from Cersei, but the genesis of it would have been lost on me if you hadn't pointed it out.

Quite honestly, because of that I have some sympathy for Cersei because in that particular case, Ellaria's actions were a mirror of Cersei's . Both were motivated by vengeance, both tried to inflict the worst punishment they could think of on their perceived perpetrator. Neither was willing, or capable, of breaking the cycle that seeking vengeance creates.  

On 2017-07-31 at 9:48 AM, janjan said:

Remember when dead-looking Uncle Benjen explained why he couldn't come with Bran and Meera. He said there are spells built into the wall, such that the dead cannot pass. It would be kind of a let-down to find that the Army of the Dead can't get over the wall after all, after all Jon's emo'ing about the threat. But maybe the old spells need to be activated, and that's what Sam will find in the old books. So Sam will high-tail it back up to the wall, with Gilly and Little Sam in tow as always, and say the Patronus to activate the spells. Then the Dead will storm the wall, and fall back in great numbers with a sizzle sizzle snap snap like a great white bug zapper.

Love this spitball, janjan. Make it so! < and I am particularly enjoying the image of the zombonies "sizzle sizzle snap snap(ing) like great white bugs" > That will be my go-to image IF we get a CGI assault. My visual equivalent of "la-la-la" (fingers in ears).  Well Spat!

Edited August 4, 2017 by Anothermi
clarification

[Anothermi]

I feel like a thread hog, but I was late to this episode and still have reactions to points raised by the rest of you. Please forgive me.

On 2017-08-01 at 6:01 AM, Llywela said:

I especially enjoyed seeing Jon's reunion with Tyrion after so many years and seasons! Such polar opposites, and yet once upon a time they found common ground and mutual respect, and in this political climate that's almost like being old friends. Jon being such a serious-minded character, he works well playing opposite Tyrion's humour and sarcasm, and seeing them come together again all these seasons later really drove home the point of how much they've both been through and how much they've both changed, even while remaining so very much who they always were.

So much this! Bolded part. This is true of Dany as well. It seems Tyrion has a knack for mentoring. Afflicted by Brooding or Shouting?  Tyrion's got an alternative.

The last time they saw each other, Tyrion was a wise-cracking (but still wise) wastrel who was entertaining himself by fulfilling his own quirky bucket list (peeing off the edge of the Wall, as Jon reminded him). He evinced an attitude of not taking anything seriously. Yet he always did and now he's in a position to act, not just re-act with sarcasm. (Unfortunately this campaign is not as successful as the ones in Meereen or Blackwater - so far).  Jon was a "no-one-understands-me" emo brooder (loved the call back with Tyrion claiming to feel out done by Jon's superior "brooding".)  They sure were made for each other back then. Jon's birth "circumstances" may have made him feel hard done by, but Tyrion's own life story (and making the best of it), and his tactfully pointing out that Jon was the privileged one there at the Wall gave Jon a bigger perspective. Tyrion was probably the first person who called Jon on his "woe is me" attitude. It kind of surprised my that Jon seemed to revert to that persona after failing to convince Danaerys with his earnestness. (leading to the brooding joke). I also liked how, when Dany followed Tyrion's advice and offered Jon access to the Dragonglass, Jon was all "So you believe me!" only to have her ignore his happy-puppy-face (or hide her eye-roll).

On 2017-08-01 at 6:01 AM, Llywela said:

poor Davos is so ill-suited to a diplomatic role at court – the contrast between his gruff, plain-spoken approach and the slick presentation of Dany's people is stark.

Or perhaps you could say .... is Stark.  (I couldn't help but read it that way, hee) Loved all the other things you said regarding Jon and Davos too.

 

On 2017-08-01 at 6:01 AM, Llywela said:

I'm curious to know why Jon doesn't want the story of his murder and resurrection to be told. I mean, if it was Dany, she'd be all over it, would take it as proof of her divine destiny and add it to her list of titles, but Jon seems almost embarrassed by it, doesn't want anyone to know.

 

On 2017-08-01 at 10:44 PM, Llywela said:

Maybe that's why Jon doesn't want the story of his resurrection told - because his claims are already so outlandish, he doesn't want to add more to the heap!

Heh. I tend to agree with your answer to your own question. Plus, Jon has learned that kind of notoriety (e.g. I killed a White Walker!) never really pays off in a good way. Besides, he's never been a braggart. Dany does enough for both of the last living links to the Targaryen dynasty.  ;-)

The person I was most surprised to see keeping it to herself was Melissandre. She never told any of the DragonStone Gang that she resurrected Jon Snow from the dead. The former Mel (not the old one which we now know she always is) would have proclaimed that feat to the rooftops. She's had quite a bit of growth these last few seasons. Of course, I understood her wanting to not be seen by Jon and Davos as they threatened to kill her if they saw her again, but I think she realizes that her part in whatever she saw in the flames is done. Oh, except that she will have to come back and die in Westeros. Was that a clue-like tidbit regarding her future in this show? And was her statement that Varys would die in Westeros as well another clue? Does she know something about what that wizard was doing with Varys man parts? What words he was intoning over their barbecue? The look on Varys face made me think he was wondering that too.

Edited August 8, 2017 by Anothermi
spelling

[Llywela]

15 minutes ago, Anothermi said:

The person I was most surprised to see keeping it to herself was Melissandre. She never told any of the DragonStone Gang that she resurrected Jon Snow from the dead. The former Mel (not the old one which we now know she always is) would have proclaimed that feat to the rooftops. She's had quite a bit of growth these last few seasons. Of course, I understood her wanting to not be seen by Jon and Davos as they threatened to kill her if they saw her again, but I think she realizes that her part in whatever she saw in the flames is done. Oh, except that she will have to come back and die in Westeros. Was that a clue-like tidbit regarding her future in this show? And was her statement that Varys would die in Westeros as well another clue? Does she know something about what that wizard was doing with Varys man parts? What words he was intoning over their barbecue? The look on Varys face made me think he was wondering that too.

Yes! Melisandre really has changed a lot since we first met her - while always maintaining that same serene, mysterious persona. I was particularly struck by her admission to Varys that Jon and Davos dislike her for very valid reasons, because she made what she herself describes now as terrible mistakes. She really, really believed in her interpretation of Stannis's destiny, so much so that it blinded her to the horrors of the actions she urged, and that failure I think shook her right to the quick, made her question everything she thought she knew. But then Davos pushed her to resurrect Jon, and it worked, and now she really doesn't seem quite sure what to believe...and I've got to say, that kind of hesitation and uncertainty does wonders for her. If she could only have applied that kind of critical thinking a little earlier, maybe poor little Shireen might still be with us!

[janjan]

5 hours ago, Anothermi said:

I feel like a thread hog, but I was late to this episode and still have reactions to points raised by the rest of you. Please forgive me.

No no no! Nothing to forgive!!! I'm disappointed if I check the thread and find no new posts. I love your posts, so hog away!

What are we to make of the fact that Mel appears to be about 150 years old (as we saw when she took off her magic necklace)? Does she ever die, or just morph into something else? Does she even know what kind of being she is? I've started to like her more since she admitted she blew it with Stannis and Shireen, but I still find her a little creepy.

But sometimes she's right. Remember when she looked into Arya's eyes (when she came to take Gendry away from the Bw/oB) and saw a mass murderer? Bingo.

[WhiteStumbler]

Hey y'all - great stuff. I keep trying to digest it and respond coherently, but real life is interfering.

In the meantime, there is a rumor that the next episode has been leaked online.

BE CAREFUL!

...for the internet is dark, and full of spoilers.

[Meredith Quill]

Mod Note:

To confirm; episode 4 has indeed been leaked, remain vigilant folks!

[gingerella]

Thanks esteemed White Cloaks! We are manning the Wall and will remain vigilant until the end...or unless we're all poisoned or receive a visit from Jamie or Urine...or the Army of the Dead, or...Cersei...or...well, nevermind, we're manning the Wall dammit! Brethren, bring out the grog, it's going to be a long night until Sunday comes...the weekend is dark and full of terrors...

[Llywela]

Yikes. I'll keep my head down for the weekend, then!

[Pallas]

Thinking about why Jon kept his resurrection on the down-low...plot-service, for one. If Davos finishes his argument and Dany expresses even polite interest, Melisandre's name probably comes up. That would be untimely. In Dany's camp, it would provoke further skepticism about Jon and rouse suspicion of the witch, and why she wanted to bring fire and ice together.  

Because they make steam!  No, not because they make steam...

Melisandre realized that too, which was another reason she made herself scarce. And plot-wise this allowed Melisandre to depart (taking with her, Varys's dreams of retirement in Essos), and kept Jon and Davos from encountering her again, for now. I think she's still only just settling into the seat on the Redemption Train that Jaime Lannister has vacated. Until he kills Cersei and himself, perhaps. 

It's possible that Rhaegar and Lyanna married, as janjan pointed out. The Mountain was probably dispatched by Tywin to kill Oberyn's sister/Rhaegar's wife as soon as Tywin switched sides, before Jaime killed The Mad King. Her and Rhaegar's children's whereabouts would have been well-known, while Ned had to seek out Rhaegar's hiding place with Lyanna -- when the rest of the war was finished, it seems; Robert was already proclaimed King. If Jon's parents married before his birth -- even a day before -- he's no bastard. No Snow. (Rhaegar's a bit of a bastard, of course, if he married so soon upon the death of his abandoned wife -- even for the best of reasons -- but...).

All that really means is that if it becomes known that Jon is Rhaegar's son, and if Rhaegar and Lyanna married before Jon was born, then in terms of succession, Jon's claim to the throne would be more valid than his aunt's -- and not one bit more germane. The Targaryens were overthrown. Robert Baratheon was King of the Seven Kingdoms before Jon (Targaryen) was born. Declared and also anointed King, I'm sure, in the Sept of Baelor by the same authority and in the eyes of the same gods who previously blessed the Targaryens. 

But it does add a little muted-brass-wah-wah to Dany's declaring to Jon, "I was born to rule the Seven Kingdoms," and even to Davos's stout rejoinder, "Birthright-schmirthright. He's a mensch."

And, "That's not you..."  Already heading north, Arya meets Nymeria again; love awakens more, along with pain. Arya remembers what she once said about herself, and who she said it to. With that, Arya may have realized that the "me" she is not, is a lone wolf assassin. There was Nymeria, at peace with her own nature and thriving within her pack. And there was Arya, headed home to hers. Nymeria is not A Wolf; she is not faceless, family-less. Neither is Arya, or so she told Jaqen (who hid his knowing smile): she is Arya Stark, of Winterfell. 

[Anothermi]

6 hours ago, Pallas said:

But it does add a little muted-brass-wah-wah to Dany's declaring to Jon, "I was born to rule the Seven Kingdoms," and even to Davos's stout rejoinder, "Birthright-schmirthright. He's a mensch."

I love your way with words. (Also wearing the biggest grin at the thought of Davos, plain speaking Davos, saying "birthright-schmirthright" let alone "mensch". But the shoe fits.)

 

6 hours ago, Pallas said:

And, "That's not you..."  Already heading north, Arya meets Nymeria again; love awakens more, along with pain. Arya remembers what she once said about herself, and who she said it to. With that, Arya may have realized that the "me" she is not, is a lone wolf assassin. There was Nymeria, at peace with her own nature and thriving within her pack. And there was Arya, headed home to hers. Nymeria is not A Wolf; she is not faceless, family-less. Neither is Arya, or so she told Jaqen (who hid his knowing smile): she is Arya Stark, of Winterfell. 

OH! OH! OH! OH!

Also loving where your mind went with that one. It could happen. I'd really like it to. But I'm hedging my bets on this one.

Edited August 6, 2017 by Anothermi
spelling

[janjan]

Quote

Pallas by way of Anothermi: Davos, saying "birthfight-schmirthright" let alone "mensch". But the shoe fits

If the foo shits, swear it. What a wonderful way for Auntie Dany to wah-wah into oblivion and Jon Targaryan to sit on the Iron Throne. Dany has hardened into her father's daughter (metaphorically), but Jon has remained Ned Stark's son (totally metaphorically). Betray Dany and she burns you alive; betray Jon and he comes back to life and keeps on Starkin'.

I'm hedging, too, on Arya's arc. Even though she's Arya Stark of Winterfell, as she told Ja'qen, she is also a lone-wolf assassin, and Arya Stark owes Cersei her come-uppance.. The "moment" with the Lannister soldiers showed her that they are not enemies, just lonely boys fighting someone else's wars. That softened her -- when was the last time we saw her smile? But the "moment" with Nymeria was ambiguous. You have to be who you are, it said. But who is she really? She's probably still working on that one. We shall see when she decides which way to turn on the road.

Bran, on the other hand, is firmly set on his road. I watched again the scene were he first comes into Winterfell. Sansa rushes to him and hugs him, but he is looking over her shoulder stone-faced. All feeling gone. This raven'ing shtick is all-consuming. I hope it's at least useful. Sansa had better listen to him and not to LF.

Is it Sunday yet?

[Pallas]

5 hours ago, janjan said:

I'm hedging, too, on Arya's arc.

Room for three in that hedge? -- can you and Anothermi scootch over?  My read on Arya's choice is partly a wish tossed out into the cosmos. I can see how she may have been melted down into a sword that, re-forged, seems even stronger. Some things don't heal right. 

 

5 hours ago, janjan said:

Sansa had better listen to him and not to LF.

I worry too. Sansa was obviously disquieted by his strangeness, then upset by what her younger brother knew about her and dispassionately recited. She once had a problem seeing past appearances (and who doesn't, especially when young, and as someone judged almost entirely on her own appearance), seeing monsters as princes and potential allies as monsters. But she learned. Not only Iearned, but held herself accountable as someone prone to that mistake. I hope that after a spell where Littlefinger makes his best pitch yet to subvert her judgment, and she appears to be swayed by it, Sansa will put her learning to work.

[Anothermi]

3 hours ago, Pallas said:

I hope that after a spell where Littlefinger makes his best pitch yet to subvert her judgment, and she appears to be swayed by it, Sansa will put her learning to work.

Her mother made the mistake of trusting him (due to lack of interaction in the years following her marriage to Ned) at the beginning of this saga, but by the time he brought her Ned's bones she'd learned to be wary.

Sansa may have been a slow learner, but she got to spend much more time observing his machinations - and getting caught in them. She should be able to put her learning to work, but we all have our blind spots, our weaknesses.

[janjan]

4 hours ago, Pallas said:

My read on Arya's choice is partly a wish tossed out into the cosmos. . . . Some things don't heal right. 

Yes! And remember that Bran was touched by the WW. Maybe that's what changed him. He didn't see Summer and Hodor die to protect him -- he would only know that abstractly, so it probably wasn't that that chilled him to the bone. Maybe the WW's touch is like the Frodo's Nazgul wound --it never heals, and he could never be one with his mates again. Maybe that's true of Arya, too.

Now I'm worried about Jon, speaking of wounds. Beric said there's a little less of him every time he comes back. Yikes!

Jeez. And all this because Ned couldn't tell Robert to stuff it and go find another Hand.

Edited August 6, 2017 by janjan
I can't spell.

[janjan]

Interesting article about GoT and trauma. No spoilers in it.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/06/health/game-of-thrones-trauma-season-7-trnd/index.html

[Pallas]

8 hours ago, Anothermi said:

Sansa may have been a slow learner, but she got to spend much more time observing his machinations - and getting caught in them.

Very true. Sansa was cool as could be in all their recent audiences, and when she pronounced, "I know what he wants." I guess I'm more worried that what will disturb Sansa is Bran's strangeness: this summer's child become clairvoyant and other-worldly, with both a priest's and a brothel-keeper's intimate knowledge of human nature.

And into that vulnerability, into Sansa's susceptible unease, will ease Littlefinger. Suddenly comfortingly unchangeable, predictably opportunistic, familiarly self-interested Littlefinger. Saying all the right practical, cautious, perhaps even compassionate things about what has happened to her brother (who he never met before). But we'll see; Sansa, listen to she who might have been your grandmother-in-law: be a wolf. A wolf who knows a wolf is always a wolf -- and a jackal, still a jackal.

[janjan]

5 hours ago, Pallas said:

her brother (who he never met before)

whom

 

5 hours ago, Pallas said:

listen to she who might have been your grandmother-in-law:

Very good!

Note to self: Must stop channeling Ser Davos. Must stop. Must stop now. Please, somebody, stop me before I kill again!!

[walnutqueen]

3 hours ago, janjan said:

Note to self: Must stop channeling Ser Davos. Must stop. Must stop now. Please, somebody, stop me before I kill again!!

Shush - lest Arya hear your plea and add you to her list  ...