S08.E02: Down that Route: 2017.07.24

[zenme]

There was  a kid in my  classroom last year (4 yrs old), who threw fits worse than the one Aubrey threw, at least 8x a day! She'd also hurt other kids in the class if I gave them attention. She was an only child in a house full of adults. I took her to our school counselor to find out if there was something really serious going on. She determined, "She's just spoiled!" 

I gave the kid the benefit of the doubt at 4 yrs old, but for a 7 year old Aubrey's too big to be throwing THAT kind of fit. 

I like the way Chelsea handled it, but Aubrey is going to have to get used to not being the center of attention in that house anymore. 

[Rebecca]

Yeah...I really don't understand how Kailyn can act like such an asshole knowing she's being filmed. Even UBT seems to be aware that he doesn't want to deliberately look like an asshole on camera and attempts to adjust some of his behavior accordingly. I guess people like Kailyn and Adam either think they are perfectly fine in how they are acting or they are too narcissistic to care.

Edited July 29, 2017 by Rebecca

[zenme]

It's like Adam and Kailyn are completely feral and have no clue how to behave in civilized society.  

For example, the other day when Kailyn didn't want to discuss issues with Jo and the crew, that's all she had to say. "You know what guys, it's really a stressful topic right now, and at some point I'd be happy to talk about it, but right now's just not good." Done in a polite way, I don't see how that could be bad, but turning off the light and copping  a stank attitude right off? Rude. Classless. She's trash. 

Edited July 29, 2017 by zenme

[leighroda]

1 hour ago, DangerousMinds said:

Anal retreading??.

I have never heard this term before, and now I have, my life is different now.

[ReadMeLattice]

39 minutes ago, zenme said:

It's like Adam and Kailyn are completely feral and have no clue how to behave in civilized society.  

For example, the other day when Kailyn didn't want to discuss issues with Jo and the crew, that's all she had to say. "You know what guys, it's really a stressful topic right now, and at some point I'd be happy to talk about it, but right now's just not good." Done in a polite way, I don't see how that could be bad, but turning off the light and copping  a stank attitude right off? Rude. Classless. She's trash. 

Seriously, just be like "look, that's a sensitive issue right now so I'm not comfortable discussing it until later, sorry." End of story. How is that THAT hard? 

[GreatKazu]

Karl has to be a human in order to understand and give sympathy and empathy. Being that she is a mammal, she can't do either. 

[Mkay]

She always has to be right. So she thinks that she isn't doing anything wrong. 

[CofCinci]

24 minutes ago, Mkay said:

She always has to be right. So she thinks that she isn't doing anything wrong. 

If Kail tells someone she was wrong, you know she's bullshitting them.  

[zenme]

I agree. Kailyn conceding that  she could have been wrong, or even apologizing, would have to be as part of a manipulation. Not earnest in the least.

Edited July 30, 2017 by zenme

[Rebecca]

18 hours ago, GreatKazu said:

Karl has to be a human in order to understand and give sympathy and empathy. Being that she is a mammal, she can't do either. 

Hey! My dog takes offense! 

Question: Does anyone think Kailyn is a sociopath? Jenelle? Adam? Any other possibilities?

Edited July 30, 2017 by Rebecca

[HeySandyStrange]

42 minutes ago, Rebecca said:

Hey! My dog takes offense! 

Question: Does anyone think Kailyn is a sociopath? Jenelle? Adam? Any other possibilities?

Jenelle, in my armchair psychologist expert opinion, definitely has some traits of psychopathy. The flat effect, the seeming lack of complex emotions especially towards/for other people, the lack of self-awareness, the manipulation and the lack of empathy/sympathy for anyone but herself are all pretty telling as far as that goes.  I also find it troubling that even when she is crying about whatever drama is supposedly hurting her feelings, it seems very shallow.

Kail-I don't see psychopathy, per say, but I can certainly believe she is bipolar. Her lack of emotional regulation, control issues, illogical and black and white thinking line up with bipolar people I know. I do think she is capable of emotional attachment and empathy, even  if she is not great at showing it. She does seem to love her kids as best she can considering how screwed up most of her adult relationships are.

Adam-Possible. He definitely lacks impulse control, is manipulative, seems egotistical, breaks laws and seems to lack basic empathy. I could see him on the NPD/APD spectrum, if not fully diagnosable like Jenelle.

David/Nathan-Also possible. Both, I believe, were/are drug/alcohol users/abusers, both have histories of violent behavior, have exhibited controlling behavior, both have rage/anger issues, and both have possible manipulative tendencies. I would also say, by the fact both  were/are most likely with Jenelle for her money, that they are con artists like a lot of Psychopaths.

LOL didn't mean to turn this into dissertation, guess the Psych student is coming out in me. It takes a lot to slap the NPD/APD aka Psychopath label on someone. We'd have to have a pattern of conduct from childhood usually to really tick off all the boxes of Psychopathy.

[Scarlett45]

@HeySandyStrange with Kailyn I don't see mental illness as much as a lot of personality flaws she doesn't care to work through because she doesn't have to.

I think if Kailyn had been brought up in a family like Chelsea's, she wouldn't be the sweetheart Chelsea is but I don't think she would be as defensive, "a user", "everyone is out to get me" grade A bitch. The TM fame and money did nothing but allow her to indulge in her worse traits, she does have an emotional attachment to her sons (and isn't physically neglectful like Jenelle is), but let's see how good their relationship is once the boys are old enough to have opinions of their own/do something she doesn't like. Issac is a sensitive soul and will probably always be an empathetic person- he will spend his life thinking of how he doesn't want to hurt his Mom's feelings. Lincoln is too little for me to get a read on his personality. 

[HeySandyStrange]

37 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

@HeySandyStrange with Kailyn I don't see mental illness as much as a lot of personality flaws she doesn't care to work through because she doesn't have to.

Well, I will say that being very close to a bipolar person in my life I definitely can believe Kail is bipolar, she displays a lot of the same traits as the person I know. That said, I can agree that if she'd a better upbringing with a better family, both her mental issues and asshole traits would be less pronounced and she would be better at managing both. Going with the nature vs nurture theme, I also think Leah would've turned out far more stable and together if she'd been raised by a Randy and Mary vs the Holler Hillbillies. Chelsea and her seem to be working with about the same amount of intelligence, ambition, and are not too far apart in temperament, so I think it can reasonably be stated that how they've turned out as adults comes down to environment. Though I will say, just on intuition alone, I've always felt there was waaay more to Leah's past then has ever been stated that plays in to her general dysfunction.

Edited July 30, 2017 by HeySandyStrange

[Scarlett45]

@HeySandyStrange Thanks for bringing your personal experiences into it. I don't have intimate knowledge of bipolar disorder so I'm sure you know more than I do!!

I agree with you about Leah and Chelsea- 100%. 

[Christina87]

I think Jenelle definitely is a psychopath. She literally doesn't seem to be able to put herself in anyone else's shoes, ever. Even on the rare occasions when she is single and thanks barb for raising jace, she doesn't seem genuinely thankful, nor does she seem to grasp what she should be thankful for. Her dad just left the family, after beating barb (which shows lack of empathy), and when he heard jenelle was on a show, he shrugged and said, "she can look me up in the phone book." He sounds so cold and detached, just like jenelle. I honestly think if barb, Nathan, Kaiser, and Ashleigh had weights tied to their feet and were lowered into the ocean, she wouldn't give a crap at all. She would spend zero nights crying over never seeing these people again. I think that if jenelle died, even Nathan would actually be sad. 

I can totally see it with Adam too. With him, I'm up in the air between psychopathy and extreme, extreme selfishness. He definitely seemed to delight in torturing Chelsea, when he didn't have a reason to be mad at her at all. I can definitely see it!

kail I think has some disorder and is a horrible person, but I believe she is capable of loving people and being attached. She just usually finds people she can use in the process, which sucks. 

[CofCinci]

As a supervisory-level mental health clinician, I must say: sometimes people are just assholes and not all behavior can be pathologized. 

[HeySandyStrange]

8 minutes ago, CofCinci said:

As a supervisory-level mental health clinician, I must say: sometimes people are just assholes and not all behavior can be pathologized. 

Very true. It could very well be that Nathan, Adam, David, and Kail are mostly just huge assholes and nothing more. Jenelle, though...something has always felt really "off" about her to me. Something is missing in her , some light in the eyes or basic human emotion that even the aforementioned assholes have displayed on occasion. Even Barb, who's a lot like Jenelle in many ways, seems way more capable of warmth and empathy then her daughter. Jenelle imo is a very unsettling individual.

[ReadMeLattice]

1 hour ago, HeySandyStrange said:

Jenelle, in my armchair psychologist expert opinion, definitely has some traits of psychopathy. The flat effect, the seeming lack of complex emotions especially towards/for other people, the lack of self-awareness, the manipulation and the lack of empathy/sympathy for anyone but herself are all pretty telling as far as that goes.  I also find it troubling that even when she is crying about whatever drama is supposedly hurting her feelings, it seems very shallow.

Kail-I don't see psychopathy, per say, but I can certainly believe she is bipolar. Her lack of emotional regulation, control issues, illogical and black and white thinking line up with bipolar people I know. I do think she is capable of emotional attachment and empathy, even  if she is not great at showing it. She does seem to love her kids as best she can considering how screwed up most of her adult relationships are.

Adam-Possible. He definitely lacks impulse control, is manipulative, seems egotistical, breaks laws and seems to lack basic empathy. I could see him on the NPD/APD spectrum, if not fully diagnosable like Jenelle.

David/Nathan-Also possible. Both, I believe, were/are drug/alcohol users/abusers, both have histories of violent behavior, have exhibited controlling behavior, both have rage/anger issues, and both have possible manipulative tendencies. I would also say, by the fact both  were/are most likely with Jenelle for her money, that they are con artists like a lot of Psychopaths.

LOL didn't mean to turn this into dissertation, guess the Psych student is coming out in me. It takes a lot to slap the NPD/APD aka Psychopath label on someone. We'd have to have a pattern of conduct from childhood usually to really tick off all the boxes of Psychopathy.

Agree with all. Kailyn's diagnosis is, I think, very accurate. I don't think it's why she's an asshole but I think it makes her negative feelings more difficult for her to manage and express. And certainly her upbringing didn't help. 

Adam seems to really have some kind of deep seated problem, he cares about nothing and no one but doesn't seem to have a chaotic upbringing that would even begin to explain it, which is frightening. 

Weirdly I think Kieffer had actual empathy and kindness in him, unlike Jenelle's later dudes? Not saying he wasn't trash because yeah he was trash, but Courtland, Nathan and David are a whole different ball game. 

Edited July 30, 2017 by Lm2162

[Rebecca]

My abnormal psychology degree and I agree that Jenelle is the most likely candidate for sociopathy. I really feel it with her. It's thought that there is a genetic component to it...I wish we knew more about her father...

I agree that Kailyn has major issues but doesn't express sociopathy. I was curious to see if anyone could make an argument for her being a sociopath. Adam confuses me. 

I agree that Keifer seemed pretty empathetic, especially compared to most on this show. I think he's a messed up person, who has led a messed up life but he does almost seem like a kind person, regardless of the wrong he has done.

Edited July 31, 2017 by Rebecca

[Christina87]

Adam confuses me, because like a poster said, he cares about no one. I feel like if we saw him around his family, he would make a lot more sense. I'd love to see if his parents are permissive, selfish, strong personalities, shrinking violets...we could tell a lot about him from observing their dynamic with him. Just imagine how much more of a mystery Jenelle would be if we'd never met barb!

We've never seen him around people except people he hates, really. We never even saw the honeymoon period of his relationship with Chelsea, or even really with Taylor. I remember the latter being a whole lot like jenelle's "relationships," where all he talked about on camera was how much better Taylor was than Chelsea. I would love to see him around someone he actually values. It would be interesting if there was a spark. I think he is the most selfish person I've ever seen, but he doesn't have dead eyes and scare me to the extent jenelle does. 

[Mkay]

We are getting two episodes tomorrow. Two! One is supposed to be a special but regardless, I'll need extra blood pressure pills for 2 hrs worth. Hahaha

[Calm81]

7 hours ago, Mkay said:

We are getting two episodes tomorrow. Two! One is supposed to be a special but regardless, I'll need extra blood pressure pills for 2 hrs worth. Hahaha

I may just "watch" the two episodes on here. I can only handle one crapisode a week (I will probably force myself later in the week lol) as it's kinda boring these days and not the same. Adding the new Becky threw the show off and it doesn't jive with me. 

I'd rather the original girls get their full time slot or have the show cancelled altogether. They're still ratings gold so I don't see the latter happening which pisses me off.

Seeing Kailyn and Jenelle live the good life off of MTVs tit erks me. Most of us on here have college degrees and will not see that type of money and we're kind to other people.

Edited July 31, 2017 by Calm81

[FlowerofCarnage]

2 hours ago, Calm81 said:

I may just "watch" the two episodes on here. I can only handle one crapisode a week (I will probably force myself later in the week lol) as it's kinda boring these days and not the same. Adding the new Becky threw the show off and it doesn't jive with me. 

I'd rather the original girls get their full time slot or have the show cancelled altogether. They're still ratings gold so I don't see the latter happening which pisses me off.

Seeing Kailyn and Jenelle live the good life off of MTVs tit erks me. Most of us on here have college degrees and will not see that type of money and we're kind to other people.

I agree that it is irksome but just think, the gravy train won't last forever.  When MTV finally pulls the plug, Kail with that face made for radio and of-putting personality can forget thst dream career in front and behind the camera. She'll also have to downsize to a smaller home and kiss the BMW goodbye. As, for Jenelle, we all know that once the checks stop, she descend right into poverty and drug addiction. 

[ReadMeLattice]

I don't know, I really don't think Adam has much capacity for empathy, we just haven't seen as much of him interacting with others. He & Jenelle would really be a good match, they seem highly similar. 

[GreatKazu]

Adumb is a meth user. Who knows what kind of personality existed before the drug use. I don't think he will ever clean up. 

[ReadMeLattice]

4 hours ago, GreatKazu said:

Adumb is a meth user. Who knows what kind of personality existed before the drug use. I don't think he will ever clean up. 

That's true, he does seem like his brain is very very fried on drugs. In the permanent neurological sense. 

[Rebecca]

Was Adam doing meth at like 18 when we "met" him on 16 and P? Yikes.

[SheTalksShit]

On 7/28/2017 at 3:16 PM, GreatKazu said:

I don't agree. She put the blame on him. 100 percent of the blame. I can't get behind someone who thinks the predicament they are in is due to someone else when it took two of them to conceive that child. Briana made that choice to have unprotected sex with a dude she didn't even know. And then she has the audacity to get mad at him for cheating? 

She didn't yell and scream at him, though, she just told him she doesn't wanna be w/him and asked how he felt about adoption. And they'd been together a couple months at that point and he made it seem like he was planning to stick around, so I can see why she was upset. She didn't go psycho or ghetto or yell and scream. she just told him how she felt. 

Edited August 2, 2017 by SheTalksShit

[SheTalksShit]

On 7/31/2017 at 10:20 PM, Rebecca said:

Was Adam doing meth at like 18 when we "met" him on 16 and P? Yikes.

I don't know, but I don't THINK he was doing it much throughout most of his time on the show bc he was so into bodybuilding and maintaining it, etc. EXCEPT maybe the last season, when he suddenly started avoiding the cameras. meth is big up in SD, from what I've heard, bc it's the perfect place to operate meth labs there. meth labs are typically operated in the middle of nowhere, since they stink, if you wanna go undetected, it's best to be somewhere without any nearby houses or businesses in site. and pretty much everywhere in South Dakota is the middle of nowhere! lol 

[SheTalksShit]

On 7/31/2017 at 8:10 AM, Calm81 said:

I may just "watch" the two episodes on here. I can only handle one crapisode a week (I will probably force myself later in the week lol) as it's kinda boring these days and not the same. Adding the new Becky threw the show off and it doesn't jive with me. 

I'd rather the original girls get their full time slot or have the show cancelled altogether. They're still ratings gold so I don't see the latter happening which pisses me off.

Seeing Kailyn and Jenelle live the good life off of MTVs tit erks me. Most of us on here have college degrees and will not see that type of money and we're kind to other people.

i mean, MTV's made billions of dollars by making entertainment out of the lives of all these girls, so if you ask me, i think they deserve a healthy cut of it. 

salaries have never been about about how kind you are or how many degrees you have, it's about how much money your services are worth to the company you work for/how much money your services can bring in. 

[GreatKazu]

8 hours ago, SheTalksShit said:

She didn't yell and scream at him, though, she just told him she doesn't wanna be w/him and asked how he felt about adoption. And they'd been together a couple months at that point and he made it seem like he was planning to stick around, so I can see why she was upset. She didn't go psycho or ghetto or yell and scream. she just told him how she felt. 

Just because she didn't do a Jenelle or Kail by yelling and cursing, it doesn't take away from my initial opinion that I didn't care for what her not taking ownership of the consequences she found herself in and was all butt-hurt because the father of her baby was not faithful. To put the blame on the guy when there is just as much blame that can be assigned to her, is what bothered me. Whether she yelled it at him or said it in a whispery voice doesn't change that fact. 

I also don't believe she had any plan to go the adoption route. I believe she was testing Luis. By mentioning adoption, she was hoping to drag him back to her, in her bed. I may have a cold heart, but that is how I viewed that scene. I didn't feel the sincerity in her words. 

I would feel differently if she didn't mention the adoption and if she had taken ownership of her part in all of this. 

[teapot]

On ‎7‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 1:02 AM, zenme said:

Well, she needs to quit worrying bout her "favorite doctor" the plastic  surgeon, and make sure she's visiting her gyno for some birth control. Seriously. 

I'm thinking she should visit a dermatologist as opposed to a vag rejuvenation doctor;  you don't see your vag every time you look in the mirror (bad teapot!  that wasn't nice at all!)

[teapot]

On ‎7‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 2:38 PM, Scarlett45 said:

 Lincoln is too little for me to get a read on his personality. 

he's a genius, you know!!