All About Eve (1950)

[DisneyBoy]

I watched this movie for the first time a few months ago with no clue about the plot and really enjoyed it. Great atmosphere and great cast. The cameo from Marilyn Monroe was unexpected but fun and I think that writer guy is supposed to be a coded gay character and that was an interesting thing to include, especially considering he's a villain in the story. Well a villain of sorts.

I'm not sure I'm completely on board with the concept of Eve being this sinister conniver. I think I would have rather she retained a bit of humanity as the story went on. Instead the movie kind of feeds into this old school narrative of the young woman being a threat to the older woman. There's still some truth to that today but it feels like a bit of a trope and too cut and dry.

Bette Davis is of course in fine form and I love how fiery her character is in this movie. I kind of wish she as Margo could have encountered Bea Arthur's Dorothy. They might have had an interesting dynamic.

Edited July 15, 2017 by DisneyBoy

[kiddo82]

One of my all time favorite movies.  Bette Davis was a force.  Other than the famous party scene I could watch her blow up at the theater ("All playwrights should be dead for 300 years!") on loop. I never thought of Addison as the villain really.  Definitely a puppeteer and manipulator but not a villain.  I believe George Sanders won an Oscar for that role.  It's interesting because you could make almost the same exact movie today and the theme of being replaced by someone younger and fresher (especially when it comes to actresses) still holds.

Edited July 15, 2017 by kiddo82

[Constant Viewer]

I never thought of Addison as the villain either. I disliked Eve, but I liked Addison who saw through Eve and then beat her at her own game. No one could play smarmy like George Sanders.

 

Besides being fiery, Bette Davis was awfully brave to be filmed while putting cold cream on her face.

[Yokosmom]

My only problem with the film is the "a woman is nothing without a man" trope that it embraces fully.  Definitely of it's time, but still annoying.  Other than that gripe, fabulous film.  Very well written and acted.  So many memorable scenes.

[ChelseaNH]

Jeanine Basinger, A Woman's View: How Hollywood Spoke to Women 1930-1960

She writes about how movies made for women would spend the last five minutes adhering to the party line, but spend the preceding 85 minutes breaking all the rules.  Sure, Margo winds up dutifully married (to a younger man!) but before that, she's the freakin' queen of Broadway.

[Ruby Gillis]

On 7/15/2017 at 2:50 PM, DisneyBoy said:

I watched this movie for the first time a few months ago with no clue about the plot and really enjoyed it. Great atmosphere and great cast. The cameo from Marilyn Monroe was unexpected but fun and I think that writer guy is supposed to be a coded gay character and that was an interesting thing to include, especially considering he's a villain in the story. Well a villain of sorts.

Was Addison supposed to be gay?  The ending where he tells Eve that she belongs to him always confused me.  I wasn't sure if we were supposed to think that he coerced her into a relationship with him.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

20 hours ago, Constant Viewer said:

Besides being fiery, Bette Davis was awfully brave to be filmed while putting cold cream on her face.

My impression was always that while Davis was never a great beauty, she also didn't have much use in her real life for putting on airs. She was in he early forties when All About Eve was made, about the same age Margo was, and like Margo she was gutsy, despite the character occasionally trusting the wrong people.

[Charlie Baker]

IMO Addison was NOT supposed to be gay--we are indeed to think he coerced Eve.  A case could be made that both of them had bisexual tendencies.

Sam Stagg's book called the movie something like the gayest entertainment ever conceived mostly by straights.

All I know is it is a great movie, endlessly quotable and rewatchable.

[Sandman]

This movie is the best evidence we have that Marilyn Monroe was a better comic actress -- a better actress, period -- than she is usually given credit for. Miss Casswell is a fully realized creation; the dialogue is aces, of course, but Monroe's timing is faultless. The party scene is full of some of the greatest lines in film, but Miss Casswell is truly memorable, and stands out in it; it's a small role (Monroe wasn't famous enough in 1950 for it to be a cameo, really) but Monroe more than holds her own. Not everyone can match up against Davis (and Sanders) and say that.

Edited July 19, 2017 by Sandman
Edited to finish a thought properly.

[voiceover]

Sometimes the role of "Villain" is subjective.  

To an actress past her 1st youth, a critic like Addison DeWitt is a creature to be loathed and feared: a poison-pen-wielding bitch.  

[DisneyBoy]

I didn't get the sense that Addison was into her sexually. If they went somewhat in that direction with the I Own You scene, it didn't ring true to me anyways. I got the vibe more that he was essentially saying he made her career and now anything he wanted from her she would have to give. But I didn't see him asking her for sex. Kind of like if Hedda Hopper helped someone get into the industry and make it big. The implication is that it would be held over that person's head forever and many favors would have to be granted regardless of how unpleasant they may be.

Edited July 20, 2017 by DisneyBoy

[Sandman]

1 hour ago, DisneyBoy said:

I didn't get the sense that Addison was into her sexually. If they went somewhat in that direction with the I own you scene, it didn't ring true to me anyways.

I think the scene was about as explicit as it could be in 1950, all things considered. I think the intention behind it is definitely sexual. If they were only talking about a professional or even social debt, Eve's screaming and crying reaction doesn't make a lot of sense to me. It's more than just frustration. I think Eve is, for the first time in the movie, genuinely afraid. For someone who's always as composed and calculating as Eve is throughout the movie, to unravel completely is a major break. I think there are a couple of specific signifiers in the scene that enforce the sexual meaning of "I own you." One is that they begin talking about Eve's relationship with Lloyd and Eve's planned affair with him. Addison pursues her into the bedroom, and Eve is actually on the bed when she has her meltdown. (I also wonder if dis-arranged hair in movies of the 40s and 50s is always code for risqué or promiscuous behaviour. I might be reading too much into that last bit, though.)

[kitmerlot1213]

All About Eve is an absolute classic and I'm nodding my head as I read all of these comments/responses.  I adored Thelma Ritter's Birdie and her wonderfully acerbic line delivery--she loves Margo but she doesn't put up with her crap.  I also like that Margo trusts her opinion of Eve and that Birdie's wariness of the woman helps Margo to see how she was being used.

The one question I always had was if Lloyd and Eve were actually having an affair and if he was really going to leave Karen.  The fact that we saw Karen sitting with Lloyd at the awards ceremony kind of threw me off because I just can't picture Karen turning a blind eye to Lloyd's cheating and Lloyd didn't seem embarrassed around Eve either.

Edited July 19, 2017 by kitmerlot1213

[Constant Viewer]

4 hours ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

The one question I always had was if Lloyd and Eve were actually having an affair and if he was really going to leave Karen.  The fact that we saw Karen sitting with Lloyd at the awards ceremony kind of threw me off because I just can't picture Karen turning a blind eye to Lloyd's cheating and Lloyd didn't seem embarrassed around Eve either.

I always wondered this as well, especially since I really like Celeste Holm in this role. I definitely think Eve made a play for Lloyd, like she did earlier with Bill, but I don't know if he accepted or felt embarrassed or shocked by it. When Eve thanks him at the Sarah Siddons awards he does not look happy, but I can't tell if he looks guilty.  At the awards ceremony Lloyd hands her his statue and says something that it is for"services rendered beyond the whatever it is of duty" which could mean her forgiveness of an affair, but could also just mean he knows he was a less than attentive husband.

[Ruby Gillis]

8 hours ago, Sandman said:

I think the scene was about as explicit as it could be in 1950, all things considered. I think the intention behind it is definitely sexual. If they were only talking about a professional or even social debt, Eve's screaming and crying reaction doesn't make a lot of sense to me. It's more than just frustration. I think Eve is, for the first time in the movie, genuinely afraid. For someone who's always as composed and calculating as Eve is throughout the movie, to unravel completely is a major break. I think there are a couple of specific signifiers in the scene that enforce the sexual meaning of "I own you." One is that they begin talking about Eve's relationship with Lloyd and Eve's planned affair with him. Addison pursues her into the bedroom, and Eve is actually on the bed when she has her meltdown. (I also wonder if dis-arranged hair in movies of the 40s and 50s is always code for risqué or promiscuous behaviour. I might be reading too much into that last bit, though.)

I agree that the movie directs you to believe Addison wants her and makes her break up with Lloyd.  I was only confused because up until that moment, I had assumed he was gay.  I guess he could be a Kelsey Grammar type though.  

[Sandman]

Oh, I hear you.

[ennui]

7 hours ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

The one question I always had was if Lloyd and Eve were actually having an affair and if he was really going to leave Karen.

My impression was that yes, Lloyd and Eve had an affair, but I don't think he was going to leave Karen. I think Lloyd may have been seduced and regretted it.

I don't think Addison was gay -- I think he was refined and sophisticated, a different type of masculine behavior. He was angry that Eve would dismiss him because of it, that she didn't take him seriously. 

[TigerLynx]

I was never sure how far Lloyd and Eve's relationship went.  I thought Karen might have forgiven Lloyd because she also got drawn in by Eve.  Karen betrayed Margo by arranging for Margo not to be able to get to the theater so Eve could do the performance instead of Margo.  Unfortunately, this is a long running theme of "It's always the woman's fault, poor helpless men aren't responsible for anything" which has been going on for thousands of years.

[DollEyes]

   My verdict: A classic. One of the best movies ever made. Everything about it is perfect, whether it's the acting, the writing or the direction.

However, as great as the other actors are, All About Eve belongs to Bette Davis. Her Margo Channing is a diva personified. She's bitchy one moment, tender in another. Underneath Margo's meanness, there's a warm, vulnerable and compassionate woman who loves her man & her friends, even though they get on her nerves sometimes & vice versa. 

 As for Eve, I've got no sympathy for her. Margo opened her heart, her home & her life to Eve,  who in turn, betrayed her & tried to destroy her. Eve deserves to be stuck with Addison for the rest of her life. That "Phoebe" will do to Eve what she did to Margo is karma, as far as I'm concerned.

Edited July 20, 2017 by DollEyes

[Crisopera]

About as close to perfect as a movie gets.  One of the best scripts ever written.  Joseph Mankiewicz was uneven (his filmography before 1953 is pretty amazing; after 1953, not so hot), but this is genuinely great.  BTW, it's on TCM this coming Saturday, as one of "The Essentials," discussed by Tina Fey and Alec Baldwin.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

13 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

I was never sure how far Lloyd and Eve's relationship went.  I thought Karen might have forgiven Lloyd because she also got drawn in by Eve.  Karen betrayed Margo by arranging for Margo not to be able to get to the theater so Eve could do the performance instead of Margo.  Unfortunately, this is a long running theme of "It's always the woman's fault, poor helpless men aren't responsible for anything" which has been going on for thousands of years.

Except it isn't as simple as that. Let's leave out Lloyd for a minute. Whether he willingly cheated on Karen or was somehow "lured in" by Eve, Eve was still a conniver who lured in both Karen and Margo at first by playing on their sympathy for her as the naive newcomer. That she was willing to twist Karen against Margo doesn't have anything to do with whether or not she wanted Karen's husband, except maybe as an afterthought. It is possible for two things to be true; for Lloyd to be an easily led idiot and for Eve to be a backstabber who would do anything to anyone if it meant getting what she wanted, if it was a part in a play or an easily led idiot.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Cobalt Stargazer

[TigerLynx]

Margo was taken in by Eve, but she realized her mistake, and it didn't take Margo stabbing her friend in the back to do so.  Eve made a play for Bill, but he turned her down.  Eve was a conniving backstabber, but Lloyd could have turned her down just like Bill did.  So Eve's bad, Karen betrayed her friend, and Lloyd is just an easily led idiot.  I don't think so.  It's the same old theme of blaming women for everything.  Bill gets credit for not taking Eve up on her offer, but poor Lloyd doesn't have to take responsibility for what he did?  {Face Palm}  Some things never change.

[Constant Viewer]

6 hours ago, Crisopera said:

BTW, it's on TCM this coming Saturday, as one of "The Essentials," discussed by Tina Fey and Alec Baldwin.

Thanks for the heads up

Edited July 20, 2017 by Constant Viewer

[Sandman]

On 2017-07-20 at 0:10 PM, TigerLynx said:

So Eve's bad, Karen betrayed her friend, and Lloyd is just an easily led idiot.  I don't think so.  It's the same old theme of blaming women for everything.  Bill gets credit for not taking Eve up on her offer, but poor Lloyd doesn't have to take responsibility for what he did?  {Face Palm}  Some things never change.

I never had the sense (from the movie or from this discussion) that Lloyd was absolved from responsibility for his own behaviour, or that he is an easily led fool. What's unclear to me (maybe because I haven't watched it in a while) is how much of her affair with Lloyd is in the planning stage, or just in Eve's head, in other words. It's clear that Lloyd takes no responsibility for Eve's behaviour. The movie explicitly gives Karen more direct responsibility than anyone else for Eve's initial success in her "understudy" role -- because Karen arranges for it. But ultimately, Karen's betrayal of Margo on the professional level doesn't matter -- because Margo declines the new role that Eve has been so desperately contriving for. At the end of the movie, Karen and Lloyd are clearly together -- whether it's because Karen, having been forgiven for her betrayal, is better able to forgive Lloyd in turn, or because Lloyd never was unfaithful in the first place. Eve's success is assured, and she has the statuette, and the sparkly grand dame du theâtre wardrobe, to prove it. But it's also hollow, because she's betrayed people who would otherwise have been her genuine friends, making herself in the end irrelevant to them, and because it's a trap -- she's inextricably in a relationship with the poisonous Addison De Witt, and she's herself the target of another Eve in the making. Character is fate.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Sandman

[ennui]

7 minutes ago, Sandman said:

Karen, having been forgiven for her betrayal,

Was her betrayal ever discovered? I know she started to confess, but I don't think she completed it. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

4 hours ago, TigerLynx said:

Margo was taken in by Eve, but she realized her mistake, and it didn't take Margo stabbing her friend in the back to do so.  Eve made a play for Bill, but he turned her down.  Eve was a conniving backstabber, but Lloyd could have turned her down just like Bill did.  So Eve's bad, Karen betrayed her friend, and Lloyd is just an easily led idiot.  I don't think so. It's the same old theme of blaming women for everything. Bill gets credit for not taking Eve up on her offer, but poor Lloyd doesn't have to take responsibility for what he did?  {Face Palm}  Some things never change.

But I don't think Eve should get no blame. That Bill has more character than Lloyd goes against the point you seem to be trying to make, that he could have told her, "Sorry, but I'm with Karen and I don't want to risk that relationship." His lack of character matches hers in a way, IMO, because as @Sandman says she willingly betrayed people who were trying to help her at first, and most likely would have kept on helping her if she hadn't been trying to get to the top by using their backs as stepping stones.

[Constant Viewer]

58 minutes ago, ennui said:

Was her betrayal ever discovered? I know she started to confess, but I don't think she completed it

I don't think it ever was because Margo decided she did not want to do the play anyway at the dinner. 

[TigerLynx]

3 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

That Bill has more character than Lloyd goes against the point you seem to be trying to make

No, it doesn't.  I was responding to you saying that Lloyd was easily lead by Eve.  All of these people made choices.  I didn't say Eve should get no blame.  Eve is a backstabbing user.  However, that doesn't mean Lloyd isn't responsible for what he did.  Eve, Lloyd, and Karen were all wrong.  I don't know how far Lloyd's relationship went with Eve, but Karen might have forgiven him because she loved him, and because she also made mistakes.  Ironically, Margo, the woman who was supposedly such a selfish diva, turned out to be a good friend and person.  Margo had flaws, but she was loyal to her friends, and she was willing to help a young girl (Eve) until she realized what Eve was really like.

[Sandman]

So, see you all Saturday, I guess?

[voiceover]

On 7/19/2017 at 6:33 PM, TigerLynx said:

Unfortunately, this is a long running theme of "It's always the woman's fault, poor helpless men aren't responsible for anything" which has been going on for thousands of years.

A successful film can double as a Rohrschach; baggage an audience member brings can affect how she interprets the movie.

Having said that, I'm at a loss to understand this reading.  There's some strong, clever people of both sexes in this story.  Every single character could rightly be declared "manipulative"; some are more successful at this, in the parameters of the plot, but even Lloyd (arguably the weakest) is no pushover.  He comes back hard at Margo (their fight after Eve's audition) by making the eternal Writer's Argument: Do it the way I wrote it, because I know this story better than you, because I wrote it, bitch.

Excepting Eve, who's got sociopathic tendencies, all of these people are willing to own their actions.  Doesn't seem to me that Mankiewicz is blaming the women & painting the men as victims.  I think when he cut this pie, it was divvied up fairly.  

And that's one of the reasons All About Eve is a classic.  

[DollEyes]

9 hours ago, voiceover said:

A successful film can double as a Rohrschach; baggage an audience member brings can affect how she interprets the movie.

Having said that, I'm at a loss to understand this reading.  There's some strong, clever people of both sexes in this story.  Every single character could rightly be declared "manipulative"; some are more successful at this, in the parameters of the plot, but even Lloyd (arguably the weakest) is no pushover.  He comes back hard at Margo (their fight after Eve's audition) by making the eternal Writer's Argument: Do it the way I wrote it, because I know this story better than you, because I wrote it, bitch.

Excepting Eve, who's got sociopathic tendencies, all of these people are willing to own their actions.  Doesn't seem to me that Mankiewicz is blaming the women & painting the men as victims.  I think when he cut this pie, it was divvied up fairly.  

And that's one of the reasons All About Eve is a classic.  

ITA. For all Margo, Bill, Karen & Lloyd's faults, at least they not only owned their mistakes, they learned from them; Eve, OTOH, did neither, which is why she ended up stuck with Addison & "Phoebe, " which serves her right.

Edited July 21, 2017 by DollEyes

[kitmerlot1213]

I rewatched this awesome film and I truly think that Eve was lying about her affair with Lloyd--I think she was making up the entire story, just like she made up the story about her husband and their life in San Francisco--this also explains her having her fit of crying and freaking out because Addison figured it all out and called her out on all of her lies.

[DollEyes]

ITA. Given Eve's track record with the truth, the chances of her lying are way above average.

[TigerLynx]

If Eve was lying about her affair with Lloyd, that would also explain what Lloyd said to Karen when he handed her his award.  Karen had tried to talk to Lloyd about Eve a few times, and Lloyd dismissed Karen's concerns.  It's interesting how as the SL goes along each person (Margo, Bill, Karen and Lloyd) one by one comes to the realization of what Eve is really like.  Once Eve has gotten what she wants from someone and no longer has any use for them, or once Eve believes she has power over someone or has won, her mask slips and the real Eve is revealed.

Edited July 23, 2017 by TigerLynx

[SlovakPrincess]

On July 20, 2017 at 4:04 PM, ennui said:

Was her betrayal ever discovered? I know she started to confess, but I don't think she completed it. 

I think Karen's betrayal of Eve is never discovered -- one of my favorite movie scenes of all time is when she bursts into hysterical, relieved laughter when she finds out Eve will no longer have a reason to blackmail her.

Also, of course, almost everything Margo does during the party scenes.  "Fasten your seat belts, it's going to be a bumpy night!"  Drunk, irritable party-host Margo is one of my favorite things ever.

I also am unsure whether Lloyd really cheats with Eve, or if Eve is exaggerating or getting ahead of herself because she plans to get him for herself. 

[tennisgurl]

I always thought that Eve never actually had an affair with Lloyd, or it was very much exaggerated on her part. She might have flirted, and he might have flirted back, but I don't think it went any further than that. Eve has zero problem lying to advance her manipulations, and I think that's where she got the affair from. I'm sure she was planning to try and seduce him, but I'm not she ever got around to it, before her awfulness was discovered by Karen. Or, maybe she did try, and he wasn't into it. He didn't strike me as acting guilty in the end, just pissed off like everyone else was.

This is such a classic movie, it never gets old. The sharp dialogue, the great performances, and the excellent character work is all just so wonderful. I could watch the entire party scene a million times, there's just so much going on. We have Marilyn, we have drunk, snarky Margo, we have industry backstabbing, its just awesome. Plus, its classic Bette Davis, probably the most Bette Davis role she ever had, and that makes me love it all the more.

I'm also a huge fan of George Sanders as Addison, he might be one of my favorite awesomely smarmy characters in any movie ever. But, what makes his smarm work is that he really is a really smart, astute guy, and you feel like when he says really bitchy, biting things, he isn't wrong, even if he's an asshole about it. He is just a great narrator to have around, narrating everything with cynical witticisms. I also always find it interesting how offended he got by Eve making up a sob story about a dead military lover. He really seemed to find the idea of making up a story about loving someone who died in the war to be disgusting, even to a guy like him. Its an interesting character beat, even if it goes by really quickly.

I also just adore the ending. Yeah Eve technically "won", in that she got her big award and her fancy wardrobe, and she's on top...but she has no one in her life that actually cares about her, she's chained to Addison until he gets bored with her, and now she has Eve 2.0 sneaking up on her, to continue the cycle. However, while Margo had love and friendship and the respect of the industry to fall back on when Eve showed up, what does Eve have, when the new Eve strikes?

Edited July 24, 2017 by tennisgurl

[kiddo82]

On July 17, 2017 at 4:37 PM, ChelseaNH said:

Jeanine Basinger, A Woman's View: How Hollywood Spoke to Women 1930-1960

She writes about how movies made for women would spend the last five minutes adhering to the party line, but spend the preceding 85 minutes breaking all the rules.  Sure, Margo winds up dutifully married (to a younger man!) but before that, she's the freakin' queen of Broadway.

I never thought of Margo's engagement as a sign of her settling.  I think she chose that of her own volition.  There's nothing wrong with her adhering to the party line if it's what she really wanted.  What I love about the film is that, aside from whatever machinations would have gone down between Eve, Karen, and Lloyd, Margo still got the chance to choose not to do Footsteps on the Ceiling as opposed to having it taken from her.  She knew it was a great role but she was ready for the next stage of her career as well as her life.  And if she wasn't?  Heaven help whoever dared to stand in Margo Channing's way.

[Miss Dee]

On 19/07/2017 at 10:02 PM, Ruby Gillis said:

I guess he could be a Kelsey Grammar type though.  

If this movie were to be made today, Kelsey Grammar is the only actor with a hope in hell of matching George Saunders.

[DollEyes]

36 minutes ago, Miss Dee said:

If this movie were to be made today, Kelsey Grammar is the only actor with a hope in hell of matching George Saunders.

I respectfully disagree. George Sanders is brilliant as Addison DeWitt, but I think that Ralph Fiennes, Kevin Spacey, Michael Fassbender or with colorblind casting, Chiwetel Ejiofor, could pull it off.

[Sandman]

On 2017-07-24 at 3:54 PM, tennisgurl said:

I'm also a huge fan of George Sanders as Addison, he might be one of my favorite awesomely smarmy characters in any movie ever. But, what makes his smarm work is that he really is a really smart, astute guy, and you feel like when he says really bitchy, biting things, he isn't wrong, even if he's an asshole about it. He is just a great narrator to have around, narrating everything with cynical witticisms. I also always find it interesting how offended he got by Eve making up a sob story about a dead military lover. He really seemed to find the idea of making up a story about loving someone who died in the war to be disgusting, even to a guy like him. Its an interesting character beat, even if it goes by really quickly.

Addison really is the perfect narrator, because he is cynical, but insightful; he really does see more than the other characters. He is the realist among them. I agree, he's very astute. He might even be as smart as he thinks he is. Certainly, he's one of only two who see through Eve right away, the other being Birdie. And you're right: his disgust for Eve's lie about being a war widow appears quite genuine, and it seems to be opposed to his general cynicism.

I'm not sure a remake could be made;  a modernized "reboot" brought into the 21st century would almost certainly fail. The cast is ideal, so that recasting just seems like asking for trouble. But I'm intrigued by the idea of recasting Addison in particular: I'm having trouble coming up with Americans. I don't think Grammer reads as quite dangerous enough, though he could certainly handle the archness and cynicism (probably with his eyes closed). But Brian Cox could do a nice job. I'd want to see Patrick Stewart before Kevin Spacey, but I've never been much of a fan of Spacey. Fassbender or or Ejiofor, I could see. Or Michael Sheen, maybe. 

[Constant Viewer]

7 minutes ago, Sandman said:

his disgust for Eve's lie about being a war widow appears quite genuine, and it seems to be opposed to his general cynicism.

I loved that part. The thought it was so abhorrent that even Addison is shocked by it.

I hope they never remake this as a major film, but my choice for recasting Addison might be a younger Jeremy Irons or Patrick Stewart. I have no idea who could pull off Margo. Meryl Streep perhaps?

[Sandman]

Margo, of course, is the deal-breaker. I have no idea who could bear comparison with Davis. I think you'd have to go in a completely unexpected direction. Streep has the charisma, but she's not the right age now to play a woman on the cusp of forty, or even fifty, if we were to shift the age bar a bit. Glenn Close doesn't quite work as a stage diva, I don't think (see Heights, though I actually like it quite a bit). Yeah, I have no idea. Joanna Gleason? Regina King? Viola Davis is so great -- and if we cast her in this, does that mean we could get her away from How To Get Away With The Stupidest Show Ever?

[GreekGeek]

There was a musical version of AAE in the 1970's called Applause, which might make a fun adaptation, with Idina Menzel as Margo.

In a straight remake, Cate Blanchett could probably handle Margo. She's going to be playing her in a stage adaptation in London in 2018. Story here.

As for Addison, how about Mark Pellegrino, #3 on this list.

[kiddo82]

While it's a tall task to ask anyone to stack up against Bette Davis as Margo I'm picturing Viola Davis in that role and nodding in approval.  The problem is that role is so iconic in people's minds that anyone would probably be set up for disappointment.  Even if the performance was every bit as good, you can never win when you compete with people's memories.

With all due respect to Judy Holiday, in a world where the 1950 Best actress race was only between Davis for Eve and Gloria Swanson for Sunset Boulevard, the Oscar would have gone to....?*

*I'm omitting Baxter because while she more than held her own against Davis and Sanders, the marquee performance of the film belongs to Bette Davis, IMO.

Edited July 28, 2017 by kiddo82

[Sandman]

3 hours ago, GreekGeek said:

As for Addison, how about Mark Pellegrino

Can I just say "Oh, HELL no!" in the politest, most respectful tone possible? That guy annoys the snot out of me. I do like the idea of Blanchett as Margo, though.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Sandman

[Miss Dee]

Thinking about it, if I'd had to cast "the best choice" out of all the actresses I've seen for the role of Margo, then (assuming they'd be magically 1) alive and 2) age-appropriate), it would be Gloria Foster (The Oracle from the first Matrix movie).

[amaranta]

This movie is pretty darn close to perfect so I'm not sure if it should ever be remade. That said, for some reason I flashed on Julianne Moore's face when I thought about a modern day Margo.  I have no idea why; it just happened.  Especially since I love Cate Blanchett and think she's been wonderful in everything I've seen.  But it's Moore who popped into my head.

When I think about the musical version, Applause, to me that part will always be associated with Lauren Bacall.

I have got to re-watch this movie - it's been too long.

[NutMeg]

I'd see Julianne Moore too before Cate Blanchett... Not sure exactly why either, maybe the mix of strength and vulnerability seems better in the first case?

[Sandman]

I like the idea of Moore, but then I'm longtime fan of hers. The discussion of recasting the part of Margo made me think of the movie Being Julia, which covers some of the same territory. Annette Bening is great in it, though Julia isn't as sympathetic as Margo, as I recall.

[David LeVack]

On 7/15/2017 at 2:50 PM, DisneyBoy said:

I watched this movie for the first time a few months ago with no clue about the plot and really enjoyed it. Great atmosphere and great cast. The cameo from Marilyn Monroe was unexpected but fun and I think that writer guy is supposed to be a coded gay character and that was an interesting thing to include, especially considering he's a villain in the story. Well a villain of sorts.

I'm not sure I'm completely on board with the concept of Eve being this sinister conniver. I think I would have rather she retained a bit of humanity as the story went on. Instead the movie kind of feeds into this old school narrative of the young woman being a threat to the older woman. There's still some truth to that today but it feels like a bit of a trope and too cut and dry.

Bette Davis is of course in fine form and I love how fiery her character is in this movie. I kind of wish she as Margo could have encountered Bea Arthur's Dorothy. They might have had an interesting dynamic.

This was an award winning film,  if it seems like a trope, it's because lesser writers phoned in their work afterwards.