S05.E06: Joy Gets Engaged

[Sew Sumi]

28 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

There is a federal law that guarantees up to 4 days in the hospital for a cesarean, 2 for a vaginal birth.  Presuming Samuel isn't ready to be released today, I wouldn't expect Jill to be discharged until tomorrow.  Most NICU moms want to stay with their baby as long as possible and I am sure Jill is no exception.

My bad, I thought it was three days. It's still strange that no pictures have been released of them, even in the NICU, with the baby. Are they really trying to pawn off a "perfect" delivery situation with no pics released of the baby until he's released from the NICU? Even seeing that baby with all those monitors, leghumpers have already tried to defend the situation as "normal" when it was seemingly anything but. 

[Portia]

I've had 3 vaginal births and mutiple surgeries, and I have ALWAYS been eager to get home just as soon as they released me. My daughter was the same after a difficult c-section. I have the greatest respect for medical personnel, but I love recovering in my own home once it's deemed medically advisable. Picking up a nasty case of c-diff in the hospital only intensified my position! 

[MichaelaRae]

So I watched it on demand and I have to say, between my previous observations around Austin being polite, well-mannered and a hard worker and the way he seems genuinely delighted with Joy - maybe in a very old-fashioned way (it is fundie Gothard world after all) but he seems to genuinely enjoy being in her company, that I honestly got a little choked up when he proposed to Joy. And while she's not...articulate by any stretch of the imagination, or someone who's at all interested in rocking the boat, those aren't necessarily bad qualities (I happen to love several people in my life with the same qualities), I also don't see a young woman who is mimicking what she thinks love is. She seems genuinely happy with her lot (even if it's the only one she's ever been exposed to) and I think these two kids might be better suited than most. Interestingly, it's the latest two sisters to get married - who also had the benefit of knowing the person they were marrying for at least one year (many MORE in Joy's case) - that seem (to me at least) the most naturally in love and not put on. Turns out when you get to know someone for a while before entering this courtship artifice, you might actually NOT seem like strangers upon your engagement - or even on your wedding day. Go figure.

[doodlebug]

17 minutes ago, Portia said:

I've had 3 vaginal births and mutiple surgeries, and I have ALWAYS been eager to get home just as soon as they released me. My daughter was the same after a difficult c-section. I have the greatest respect for medical personnel, but I love recovering in my own home once it's deemed medically advisable. Picking up a nasty case of c-diff in the hospital only intensified my position! 

But, would you have felt the same if your baby wasn't able to go home with you?  Obviously, we don't know the current situation, but, we do know that, at least initially. Samuel needed some extra care and support.  Ask any mom who has had to leave the hospital without her child and I think the vast majority of them would choose to remain hospitalized to be closer to their baby.  Since it is the law, Jill can remain in the hospital at least until tomorrow, presuming she is not having problems requiring her to stay longer.  If the baby couldn't come home today, then I doubt Jill would have left, either.

Of course, this is all speculation based on the little information we have.  It is certainly possible that Samuel is doing well enough that he would've been released today, too.

[Sew Sumi]

With videos from Josie to distract us, I think they're still hospitalized and using the cute kids as a diversionary tactic. It wouldn't be the first time the Duggars have done this, and if this is the case, puts the kibosh on the Jill VSE in a couple of weeks unless they can figure out a way to sanitize this given what we already know (and important information that Derelict deleted from his intital social media posts). 

Sorry, I am one to question everything. If we see happy shiny pictures tomorrow of them going home, I will be relieved. 

[xwordfanatik]

6 hours ago, floridamom said:

I'm so over everything having to be a 'super' this or 'super that' experience. Please, Duggar girls, learn another adjective; perhaps open a thesaurus. Such juvenile vocabulary.

Old Austin wanted to make sure Joy knew that 'her' engagement ring was 'HIS'.

They also overuse "surreal."  I noticed Austin said it on this episode.  He fits right in.

[louannems]

Also, everything is sweet.

[Portia]

2 hours ago, doodlebug said:

But, would you have felt the same if your baby wasn't able to go home with you?  Obviously, we don't know the current situation, but, we do know that, at least initially. Samuel needed some extra care and support.  Ask any mom who has had to leave the hospital without her child and I think the vast majority of them would choose to remain hospitalized to be closer to their baby.  Since it is the law, Jill can remain in the hospital at least until tomorrow, presuming she is not having problems requiring her to stay longer.  If the baby couldn't come home today, then I doubt Jill would have left, either.

Of course, this is all speculation based on the little information we have.  It is certainly possible that Samuel is doing well enough that he would've been released today, too.

You make good points throughout your post. I was just reacting to another poster's seeming wistfulness for the good old days of long hospital stays, but I wasn't considering the position of a mother being sent home with empty arms. 

The Dullards are my least favorite of the kid couples--I regularly fast-forward through their segments--but I'm sincerely worried for them. I've been checking theit threads obsessively.

Edited July 12, 2017 by Portia

[Marigold]

Question:

Derick said he was cutting his hair for what reason?  He recently found out how long hair is a distraction in Central America???  Any clues on this?

(I work with a huge Hispanic population in NYC.  I am not aware of any of this so I'm extra interested) 

[Sew Sumi]

Austin's phrasing was off, but I attribute that to fundiespeak. 

My engagement ring is a gorgeous deco piece bought in 1922 in New Orleans. Not so many generations, though, as my husband's family is rife with later in life marriages. We are old enough to have Austin as a son, although he would have been conceived out of wedlock, since we married in '94. HA!

[Marigold]

6 minutes ago, Portia said:

You make good points throughout your post. I was just reacting to another poster's seeming wistfulness for the good old days of long hospital stays, but I wasn't considering the position of a mother being sent home with empty arms. 

The Dullards are my least favorite of the kid couples--I regularly fast-forward through their segments--but I'm sincerely worried for them. I've been checking this thread obsessively.

I got discharged after a vaginal delivery of 35 weeks.  My son had to stay and I slept on a pull out chair in the parents lounge in the NICU.  There were a lot of moms doing that, pumping or breastfeeding.  I can't even IMAGINE doing that after a C-section.  I have had multiple C-sections.  No way.  I don't love Jill but I do feel for her if she is separated from her son.

However, with my full term C-sections?  I was rushing out the door!!!!  I just wanted to get home and have my husband take care of me! 

Edited July 12, 2017 by Marigold

[Sew Sumi]

4 minutes ago, Marigold said:

Question:

Derick said he was cutting his hair for what reason?  He recently found out how long hair is a distraction in Central America???  Any clues on this?

(I work with a huge Hispanic population in NYC.  I am not aware of any of this so I'm extra interested) 

Sounds like gender assignments in Danger America. Boys have short hair, girls have long. He might have gotten some pushback from the top brass about that. 

[Marigold]

Just now, Sew Sumi said:

Sounds like gender assignments in Danger America. Boys have short hair, girls have long. He might have gotten some pushback from the top brass about that. 

I thought of that; it was an order from SOS. That's logical. 

Or was Derick referring to the people he is attempting to work with? Like a cultural bias against men with long hair?

Why can't these people freaking SAY what they mean?  ;(  So damn vague.  It could've been an interesting point to discuss. 

[Sew Sumi]

I think the vauge aspect DOES have to do with SOS. Notice that they've never been mentioned by name on teevee, as if Jerick are down there on their own. People really think that. And as a result, I truly believe that people think that Derelict cut off the manbun of his own volition. 

NOT! 

[Marigold]

Ha! The only thing I agree with SOS about.  bye, bye manbun! 

[Sew Sumi]

Hubby has a crew these days. I prefer it when he has the pretty waves. TWO INCHES IS ALL I ASK. 

[floridamom]

My suspicion is that the Dullards are in Central America as INFORMAL missionaries, working for their own...Dillard Family Ministries. If you noticed in earlier posts, Jill and Derick used the terms 'work along side with' and 'assist' quite a bit. SOS isn't their employer to my knowledge. If they were, why would they need Dillard Family Ministries; other than for THEIR OWN PERSONAL income. I'm not very well versed on missionaries in general, as it's mostly done by clergy and nuns in my religion. Lay people don't mission in other locations...we have church ministries that stem from the parish church and are done locally by the parishioners who volunteer to do them. Anyhow, back to the Dillards....When have any of them ever answered a question or stated something straight up? They don't. They 'respond' they don't 'answer'. It's their way, I think, to generate even MORE discussion and buzz about them. That's what makes them money.

[Jeeves]

16 minutes ago, floridamom said:

My suspicion is that the Dullards are in Central America as INFORMAL missionaries, working for their own...Dillard Family Ministries. If you noticed in earlier posts, Jill and Derick used the terms 'work along side with' and 'assist' quite a bit. SOS isn't their employer to my knowledge. If they were, why would they need Dillard Family Ministries; other than for THEIR OWN PERSONAL income. I'm not very well versed on missionaries in general, as it's mostly done by clergy and nuns in my religion. Lay people don't mission in other locations...we have church ministries that stem from the parish church and are done locally by the parishioners who volunteer to do them. Anyhow, back to the Dillards....When have any of them ever answered a question or stated something straight up? They don't. They 'respond' they don't 'answer'. It's their way, I think, to generate even MORE discussion and buzz about them. That's what makes them money.

Yep, the Duggars/Dillards are aces at evading pertinent questions and hiding information.

I believe it's been established - even if the Dillards/Duggars are coy about it - that the Dillards work for SOS by escorting groups that SOS brings into the country for those brief "mission trips" aka missioncations. I also think that eagle-eyed members of this forum have determined that when in CA these days, the Dillards live in a house built/owned by SOS Ministries. Whether they are technically employees, or independent contractors, IMO they do work for SOS in CA. 

I think they are coy about it because they want to give the impression that they are doing all their CA trips as Dillard Family Ministries and need funds for that. Without disclosing the amount of involvement/support by SOS Ministries in the Dillards' activities in CA. And therefore ---> DONATE! to Dillard Family Ministries.

Hey, I could be wrong and if I am, I'm sure someone will post the correct information. 

Edited July 12, 2017 by Jeeves

[floridamom]

Yes, that's it, Jeeves...I think the Dillards are contracted by SOS for their services to the SOSS actual missionaries/employees when down there. So, perhaps SOS pays them for their services also? How many paychecks are the Dillards collecting here? Being independent contractors would give Jill and Derick more freedom to fly back and forth 'at will' as they seem to be doing, wouldn't it?

[Guest]

Did Jill cut Derelict's hair with regular scissors? EW

[Jeeves]

51 minutes ago, floridamom said:

Yes, that's it, Jeeves...I think the Dillards are contracted by SOS for their services to the SOSS actual missionaries/employees when down there. So, perhaps SOS pays them for their services also? How many paychecks are the Dillards collecting here? Being independent contractors would give Jill and Derick more freedom to fly back and forth 'at will' as they seem to be doing, wouldn't it?

I'm sure that SOS wouldn't want to carry Derick as a full time employee, when they only need his services periodically to escort/guide the missioncation trips. So he's probably either a part-time, as-needed, employee, or an independent contractor who provides services as required by SOS. The use of the SOS house is probably a negotiated part of the compensation regardless of the technicalities (employee vs. independent contractor).

I'm going to assume he's an independent contractor. 

[Marigold]

I assumed the Jill and Dill were independent contractors.  I have nothing to back that up other than life experience.  :)  Just a guess. 

[Sew Sumi]

Didn't someone post an article here the other day that stated that the SBC had yet again turned down the Dullards as official missionaries of their church due to lack of education? I agree that they are likely independent contractors for SOS, and their house down there is free for them to use like the Duggar Pool House. 

They are missing the summer missioncations this summer but will certainly be back there for the December visitors. UNLESS there's something wrong with Jill or Sammy. In that case, they'll be professional American grifters. I don't even think Derelict has the skill set to work for his slimy FIL. 

[queenanne]

33 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Didn't someone post an article here the other day that stated that the SBC had yet again turned down the Dullards as official missionaries of their church due to lack of education? I agree that they are likely independent contractors for SOS, and their house down there is free for them to use like the Duggar Pool House. 

They are missing the summer missioncations this summer but will certainly be back there for the December visitors. UNLESS there's something wrong with Jill or Sammy. In that case, they'll be professional American grifters. I don't even think Derelict has the skill set to work for his slimy FIL. 

Yes, and sadly the comments for those articles were thronged with leghumpers saying, 'Well, *I* have missioncated and therefore it counts just as much as real embedded missionaries!  All you have to do to be considered one is show up and talk about our Savior!'  They don't seem perturbed that presumably they themselves paid FOR the missioncation, even as folks are pointing out the Dills expect the polar opposite, with facts and figures included.

[kokapetl]

I don't understand a formal marriage proposal that's planned with the input from both parties. It makes the formal proposal redundant. If you agree to be proposed to, there's no doubt that you'll be saying "yes, yes! A thousand times yes!"  

And damn it looked cold on that cliff. 

[kokapetl]

4 hours ago, floridamom said:

Yes, that's it, Jeeves...I think the Dillards are contracted by SOS for their services to the SOSS actual missionaries/employees when down there. So, perhaps SOS pays them for their services also? How many paychecks are the Dillards collecting here? Being independent contractors would give Jill and Derick more freedom to fly back and forth 'at will' as they seem to be doing, wouldn't it?

I think the Dillards visit El Salvador on 3 month tourist visas (which is why they're back and forth so often), so they can't lawfully be paid for any work they do in the country. I bet they receive nothing from SOS, and TLC is their source of income. El Salvador wants El Salvadorans to have those tourist guide jobs. 

[Sew Sumi]

They managed about 8 months once. I can't figure that one out.

[bichonblitz]

On 7/10/2017 at 10:53 PM, mythoughtis said:

Jessa is just being honest. Two is a lot more work than 1.

I'm waiting for one or all of the new mommies (and Jinge and Joy when it happens) to admit they are not willing to "have as many children as god will give them".  Jessa is already realizing how difficult it is after only 2.  They also don't  give themselves a break, they just keep pumping them out one after the other, they don't even have a chance to breath. Just look at Anna. I can't imagine having a house full of toddlers. It's a new generation, Jimbob and Michelle!

[kokapetl]

42 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

They managed about 8 months once. I can't figure that one out.

Was Guatemala part of that stint? 

[Sew Sumi]

8 minutes ago, Kokapetl said:

Was Guatemala part of that stint? 

And Honduras. 

[MV713]

On ‎7‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 3:14 PM, trose said:

 

----

Re: Joy's words about her upcoming "surprise" proposal were "I was trying just to talk myself out of it. Like, 'No this is not happening. This is not happening.'"

Specifically what did you not want to happen Joy?

 

I took that to mean, she wanted to be surprised, but she totally wasn't, so she was trying to talk herself out of knowing what was happening.

Except they talk about it every damn 2 seconds.  So DUH.

I was totally annoyed by how often they switched scenes and Jill's stomach was different sizes.  Totally poor editing.

[doodlebug]

28 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

And Honduras. 

I think the 90 day visa rule is per country and I am not sure they needed to return to the US to reset the clock.  Therefore, as long as they stayed in each country 90 days or less, they wouldn't have a problem.  Visas are issued by each individual country  visited, not their home country.

I think they were also attending language school during that time and it is possible that they were able to get student visas which would be more flexible as far as length of stay, even though its pretty clear that neither of them learned any more Spanish than my 3 year old niece would've gotten from an episode of Dora.

[humbleopinion]

Did Terry giving Joy a kiss on the forehead beat his son to giving Joy a kiss?

If so, that's hilarious...way to go Dad...stealing Austoon's thunder

Was Terry the first person not a family member to give Joy a kiss...

Again, ha!

[Mindthinkr]

Good catch HumbleOpinion!! 

[floridamom]

I know it varies from country to country, but why are the Dillards (who claim to be missionaries, but US citizens) going back and forth as they have been but the Shraders, also US citizens, are missionaries in Africa and are there for years at a time? Shouldn't they also be traveling 'to and fro' like the Dillards?

[sATL]

3 hours ago, Kokapetl said:

I think the Dillards visit El Salvador on 3 month tourist visas (which is why they're back and forth so often), so they can't lawfully be paid for any work they do in the country. I bet they receive nothing from SOS, and TLC is their source of income. El Salvador wants El Salvadorans to have those tourist guide jobs. 

I found a .pdf info doc on the SOS trip ( link ).. It was on this site: http://www.soshope.org/about/

the pastor that married Jessa & Ben is in the pix.

"Q - How much does a trip cost?

A- In addition to airfare, in country expenses (food, housing, transportation) are $650 for the first week and $300 for each additional week (Central America only). "

Speaking of which - I guess in a future episode Austin & Joy will be on a mission trip. that seems to be a requirement for a Duggar son-in-laws-to-be. I like Gil Bates requirement better - spend time helping in the tree business.

Edited July 12, 2017 by sATL

[BitterApple]

6 minutes ago, floridamom said:

I know it varies from country to country, but why are the Dillards (who claim to be missionaries, but US citizens) going back and forth as they have been but the Shraders, also US citizens, are missionaries in Africa and are there for years at a time? Shouldn't they also be traveling 'to and fro' like the Dillards?

Probably the logistics. They've got something like 11 kids and to get from Africa to the US you usually have to connect via Paris, London or Dubai. It's a pretty strenuous trip and they don't have a rich daddy like Jill does to help foot the bill.

[kokapetl]

A person on a tourist visa generally doesn't need to return to their home country after three (or whatever) months, they can just leave the country they're visiting for a single day, and while abroad for a day, they can apply for and usually receive another tourist visa for another three months. 

[queenanne]

2 hours ago, floridamom said:

I know it varies from country to country, but why are the Dillards (who claim to be missionaries, but US citizens) going back and forth as they have been but the Shraders, also US citizens, are missionaries in Africa and are there for years at a time? Shouldn't they also be traveling 'to and fro' like the Dillards?

That's the way missionaries I grew up around worked.  They were embedded for years, and you would not see them for years at a time (specifically one group in Irian Jaya, but we sponsored a bunch from other countries and their schedules were loosely commented upon in the church bulletin from time to time, including a lot of observations about "This will be the first furlough for So and So in six years.  Show up to next week's service to shake their hands and hear their testimony.").  Hence the ongoing disgust with the Dillards.  They are missioncationing like tourists, i.e. fake missionaries closer to what we would call "vacation"; no sooner do they "get used to" being there, than they are gone again like flibbertigibbets.  Whatever the Shraders' faults, they are committing to being knit into the heart of the community in their country, which I can't help but think makes more of an impression on the locals.

Edited July 12, 2017 by queenanne

[Guatemama3641]

As a US citizen who resides in Guatemala for around 6 months a year (not as a missionary), I just weekend in El Salavador to "reset" my 90 days. That seems to be what most people do. No need to pay for a flight back to the US.

As far as D's hair/manbun, you don't see a lot of man buns or long hair in Guate, mostly on tourists. I could see SOS asking him to cut it.

Jill and her ring... I wear simple jewelry, but I know it is suggested that tourists be careful of being too flashy, which I think is just common sense anywhere. Luckily, I have never been robbed, but a friend of mine always seems to be. She keeps some cash in her pocket, throws it, and the robber goes after that instead of her purse. The perp wants to get away fast, so while I'm sure it has happend, I don't think people having their fingers cut off is all that prevalent. 

They annoy me with their "it's so dangerous" schtick. Of course most countries in CA are dangerous- they are developing countries that are still recovering from civil wars. But dang Dillard's, shut up already! 

[doodlebug]

3 hours ago, Guatemama3641 said:

As a US citizen who resides in Guatemala for around 6 months a year (not as a missionary), I just weekend in El Salavador to "reset" my 90 days. That seems to be what most people do. No need to pay for a flight back to the US.

As far as D's hair/manbun, you don't see a lot of man buns or long hair in Guate, mostly on tourists. I could see SOS asking him to cut it.

Jill and her ring... I wear simple jewelry, but I know it is suggested that tourists be careful of being too flashy, which I think is just common sense anywhere. Luckily, I have never been robbed, but a friend of mine always seems to be. She keeps some cash in her pocket, throws it, and the robber goes after that instead of her purse. The perp wants to get away fast, so while I'm sure it has happend, I don't think people having their fingers cut off is all that prevalent. 

They annoy me with their "it's so dangerous" schtick. Of course most countries in CA are dangerous- they are developing countries that are still recovering from civil wars. But dang Dillard's, shut up already! 

Thanks for the clarification, I thought it was pretty simple to renew a tourist visa.

I agree, staying safe in El Salvador or elsewhere in CA is mostly a matter of common sense.  People are extremely poor there, it makes no sense to tempt them by wearing flashy jewelry or clothing or flaunting things like cameras or Ipads.  Staying in a group, being accompanied by a native who speaks the language and avoiding high crime areas, especially after dark; is not that hard to do.  I know a couple of people who've been robbed or had their pockets picked, but no non-Salvadoreans who were victims of violence.  Jill's concern about losing a finger in a robbery is mainly imaginary.  If her ring is that flashy, don't wear it out in the countryside.  If you do wear something like that and a robber approaches, give them the danged ring before they decide to take it themselves.  She is overly dramatic in her exaggerated descriptions of the risks there.

Edited July 13, 2017 by doodlebug

[Jynnan tonnix]

16 hours ago, Kokapetl said:

I don't understand a formal marriage proposal that's planned with the input from both parties. It makes the formal proposal redundant. If you agree to be proposed to, there's no doubt that you'll be saying "yes, yes! A thousand times yes!"  

And damn it looked cold on that cliff. 

I've never quite understood that either...Also makes me think of my daughter, who, when her then-boyfriend proposed, told us that she told him to get her father's approval before she agreed. So they came to visit us and have the official "talk". My husband gave his blessing, then my daughter got all huffy because it was now assumed that she was engaged while she hadn't had the chance to say "yes". 

[floridamom]

I found it irritating that Austin's father kissed Joy on the forehead, but Austin can't do that himself. Was Joy 'spoiled' for Austin by his father? Gross to think about, but I would think Mr. Forsyth should have not kissed Joy at all before his son had the opportunity. Their courting 'rules' are completely made up by the families and not biblical or Godly in the least.

[Totally]

A couple of quick thoughts after watching this ep

 

Izzy is adorable, and he clearly loves Dericks family and they seem to love him too

Cathy seemed truly upset to be missing Izzy while the Dill's are away.

Three kids and I've never had snot on my couch... I was :-0   

Jill seemed to be interacting comfortably with Izzy... I didn't see any of the coldness I see people talking about here. I could do with never hearing 'YAY' again, but I know with Jilss non education she doesn't have the vocab to express herself any other way

The informal relationship between Joy and Austin's Dad was lovely to see, gives me small hope

I still don't see why people think Jinger is anything different to watch than the other Duggars. She went shopping and interacted with staff. Nothing out of the ordinary even for a Dugg

I didn't seem Jessa close to Spurge at all this episode or the last episode.  I feel for Spurge having his Mum taken away so suddenly. Jessa it is TOTALLY possible to love and and nurture more than one child at a time. 

 

Im sure I have more thoughts!

[Maya]

3 hours ago, Totally said:

Jill seemed to be interacting comfortably with Izzy... I didn't see any of the coldness I see people talking about here. I could do with never hearing 'YAY' again, but I know with Jilss non education she doesn't have the vocab to express herself any other way

I HATE the barely audible yet high-pitched "Yaaaaaayyyy!!!" accompanied by the tiny clapping hands that don't make noise. 

[saylubee]

I asked one of my friends who grew up in El Salvador about the hair thing.  She couldn't remember any particular meaning, good or bad about long hair.  She did say that some of the Native tribes have specific spiritual rules about growing hair out, so it's possible that if Derick was working with one of the groups they thought the growth was a poor attempt at bonding.  Usually though she said they don't care about what an outsider's hair looks like.  Someone might have complained to Derick or SOS that he was having trouble converting people because they rightly felt he was fake.

[mjstrick]

3 hours ago, Maya said:

I HATE the barely audible yet high-pitched "Yaaaaaayyyy!!!" accompanied by the tiny clapping hands that don't make noise. 

This is the one I was just getting ready to post about.  Gah.  THE most annoying.

[Marigold]

I have never heard of anyone having snot on their sofas. No tissues, Jessa?

Ya know, Joy could hustle!!! She worked quickly and she looked like she was getting something done!  I think she was the first Dugg that I have seen actually putting some energy into work.   Usually they are sauntering around and in no rush whatsoever...Duggar Time!  Joy entered Jessa's house and was ready to work. She wanted a list of what needed to be done and then she got up and did it. 

Joy is not the sharpest tool in the shed but I liked that she can hustle. Austin did say she was a "diligent worker".  I thought that was a throw away phrase because he didn't have anything else to say but after seeing her clean Jessa's house efficiently and work on the house flip, it appears Joy is the only one who is not lumbering around all day like a hippo in mud. 

Joy was always boring to me but she is perking up! 

[TresGatos]

My 10th grade economic teacher had 4 of his fingers on his right hand cut off in a robbery to get the diamond rings he always wore on every finger. This happened in Louisville, Kentucky.

Also it let to a very important lesson in economics: diamonds are easier to replace than fingers (though the did re-attach his).

[floridamom]

This episode confirmed my suspicions that Jessa's house is filthy. I had two little boys and never had snot, etc on the couch. Every time you turn around there is a post from the Duggar TTH in which Jessa IS THERE. That girl has never separated herself from her parents, their lives and their house. No wonder her house is filthy, she's never there to clean it...and with 2 babies, she CAN find the time to clean up a small house like that while they're napping. They both should be still be taking 2 naps a day...Henry, sleeping more hours than Spurge at this point.  No reason for snot on the sofa. Disgusting.