The Lonely Js Club: Jana, Jason, James, Jackson & Johannah

[Churchhoney]

4 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I don't know. I'm suspect of all organized religions, so I kind of get it. And if you dig back to the original message being sold to these groups, some may find it very appealing. An education doesn't necessarily make someone wiser or even smarter, but is does make me wonder how they're applying their critical thinking skills.

Yeah, exactly. ... All I can figure is that some need or want or issue they have is compelling enough to just override that because they hear something the group puts out as an answer to the issue. 

[JoanArc]

Quote

@JoanArc Even with parental permission, you need to be at least 17 to get married in the state of Arkansas, according to current state laws recently changed by a very conservative administration.

They'd just go to a sate where it's legal (for whatever kid they finally do it to).

The name of the episode is A Quarantine Courtship.....so it's a courtship for SOMEBODY.

[Churchhoney]

7 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

They'd just go to a sate where it's legal (for whatever kid they finally do it to).

The name of the episode is A Quarantine Courtship.....so it's a courtship for SOMEBODY.

Maybe somebody made a typo and it's actually "A Courtship Quarantine." 

So it'll be an episode about how they have no courtships to announce.....Or another episode about Jana....

[Temperance]

10 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

They'd just go to a sate where it's legal (for whatever kid they finally do it to).

The name of the episode is A Quarantine Courtship.....so it's a courtship for SOMEBODY.

I know that. I think it's Jeremiah. 

[madpsych78]

In the Jana-centric one that just aired, Gracie was just one month old and the November babies were three months, so that likely took place in February of 2020, or pre-COVID.

Thus, The Quarantine Courtship seems to be the first episode (aside from that one that aired at the beginning of the season) that is after the onset of COVID. 

IIRC, Jinger announced her pregnancy in the spring, during the early stages of COVID. I remember thinking about how everyone all met up in Arizona and how that was irresponsible, especially for Jinger's unborn child. 

Thus, it would not be far fetched that the timeline of The Quarantine Courtship lines up with the Jinger pregnancy announcement/Arizona pic.

So maybe Justin is a red herring and perhaps it is Jeremiah. 

[PikaScrewChu]

If TLC shows the Arizona footage I will laugh. They've tried to impress upon the viewers the Duggars take COVID seriously even though we all know they don't. Throws a wrench into that narrative.

Those "stay home" messages aged like milk. 

[Patricia07]

I hope she's prepared to share a bedroom with Jed.

[PikaScrewChu]

22 minutes ago, Patricia07 said:

I hope she's prepared to share a bedroom with Jed.

Thanks for reminding me of this.

 

 

[Nysha]

10 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

17 years old and that's all he has to look forward to. It's sad.

He's just looking to get a little action, just like any other 17 year old. It sucks that the only option for him is to get married. Since he probably has no idea what birth control his, the babies will soon show up. 

[VioletWitch]

From the DuggarSnark subreddit, someone messaged the mods there with proof that it’s Jed that’s courting the girl from Arizona. Jinger was Jed’s buddy and they are close so it makes sense as to why they were all randomly in Florida. Jeremiah was just the pilot. 

[GeeGolly]

Did anyone else notice JB calling the house Jer's house, at the Dad-chelor party? Not Jed and Jer's, not Jed!'s, just Jer's.

Maybe they killed two birds with one stone. They got Jed an address in the district he needed and Jer a home for his future bride. 

[PikaScrewChu]

Claire has made her Instagram public and she is following Katey. Someone found Claire's mom on Instagram and Justin has been hanging around the Spivey clan since last November. 👀

They're also IBLP, so full out Gothard. Even if she wears pants. 

[Churchhoney]

Does JB have another giant, once-classy-but-now-semi-collapsing house somewhere that he plans to gradually move the whole pack of newly formed Howler families into after each one's courtship, two-second "engagement," and wedding dominate a season of Counting On? 

That might solve several of his problems at once: put to use a bad-idea real-estate buy he can't otherwise unload; prolong the show for another six seasons without marrying Jana off; and provide multiple accountability partners for the Howlers and Howler-adjacents.

Win win win. 

Edited September 17, 2020 by Churchhoney

[BetyBee]

I don't think people are very interested in the howlers' marriages. For whatever reason, it's the girls' courtships and quick marriages that attract attention. Jana's would bring their biggest ratings yet. She and her betrothed would quickly replace Jeremy and Jinger as the "breakout stars"!

[Zella]

The boys are all pretty bland and interchangeable, so they will never be the ratings draw, in my opinion. The older girls were all more photogenic. They also had traits that you could distinguish (Jana was the worker, Jill was the midwife, Jessa was the mean girl, Jinger was the photographer, Joy was the tomboy). They were like their own boy band in that if you were a fundie female viewer you could probably glom on at least one of them to relate to. The younger boys don't seem to have individual personalities (at least none I have detected) and they're not dreamy-looking enough to swoon over. Even the older boys that seem to have more recognizable personalities--I don't think viewers who are actually fans really care about the daughters-in-law the way they do about the Duggar daughters because they've watched the latter grow up and probably feel somehow vested in them. 

[CouchTater]

7 minutes ago, Zella said:

The boys are all pretty bland and interchangeable, so they will never be the ratings draw, in my opinion. The older girls were all more photogenic. They also had traits that you could distinguish (Jana was the worker, Jill was the midwife, Jessa was the mean girl, Jinger was the photographer, Joy was the tomboy). They were like their own boy band in that if you were a fundie female viewer you could probably glom on at least one of them to relate to. The younger boys don't seem to have individual personalities (at least none I have detected) and they're not dreamy-looking enough to swoon over. Even the older boys that seem to have more recognizable personalities--I don't think viewers who are actually fans really care about the daughters-in-law the way they do about the Duggar daughters because they've watched the latter grow up and probably feel somehow vested in them. 

I didn't watch the specials or early episodes of "...And Counting" series, so I'm curious about the bolded in relation to the older brothers.  What were the  older brothers known for, or as, when they were younger?

[Panopticon]

I don’t think the older boys ever stood out as individuals the way the older girls did, with the exception of Josh, the smug future politician and favorite.

The older girls were raising their siblings, running the house, and wearing out-there modest clothing. That was the hook for “a little different.”

While the boys still suffered from being raised in a cult, they didn’t have obscene responsibilities to fascinate and repulse. And while the boys’ clothes weren’t trendy, they were more within the realm of “average” and were only noteworthy because they moved in a matchy-matchy herd. 

[Zella]

15 minutes ago, CouchTater said:

I didn't watch the specials or early episodes of "...And Counting" series, so I'm curious about the bolded in relation to the older brothers.  What were the  older brothers known for, or as, when they were younger?

I didn't watch the show, so I don't know. I assume it was some variation of Josh is the golden boy, JD is the pilot, Joe is the good ol' boy, Josiah is the theater kid, and Jed! and Jer are the twins. I'm not sure the twins really had an identity beyond that until Jer became Sinner Twin, but I could be wrong. Just the impression I get, though, is that the boys were never the draw, and TLC (and I suspect Michelle and JB) knew that, even way back then. There's a reason the girls "wrote" books and the boys didn't. 

Edited September 17, 2020 by Zella

[Tikichick]

2 minutes ago, Zella said:

I didn't watch the show, so I don't know. I assume it was some variation of Josh is the golden boy, JD is the pilot, Joe is the good ol' boy, Josiah is the theater kid, and Jed! and Jer are the twins. I'm not sure the twins really had an identity beyond that until Jer became Sinner Twin, but I could be wrong. Just the impression I get, though, is that the boys were never the draw, and TLC (and I suspect Michelle and JB) knows that. There's a reason the girls "wrote" books and the boys didn't. 

I always felt JD was this silent, lurking figure that was kind of creepy until suddenly he walked in the door holding hands with Abby.  Flying might have been mentioned before this, but Pilot JD was really a character only after they were courting IMO.  

[Zella]

2 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Pilot JD was really a character only after they were courting IMO.  

As someone who doesn't watch the show, I wasn't aware of that. I must confess that was pretty much all I knew about him--he was Jana's twin and he flew Daddy's planes. 

[absnow54]

1 hour ago, Tikichick said:

I always felt JD was this silent, lurking figure that was kind of creepy until suddenly he walked in the door holding hands with Abby.  Flying might have been mentioned before this, but Pilot JD was really a character only after they were courting IMO.  

Constable JD was also a thing pre-courtship. 

[VioletWitch]

7 hours ago, CouchTater said:

I didn't watch the specials or early episodes of "...And Counting" series, so I'm curious about the bolded in relation to the older brothers.  What were the  older brothers known for, or as, when they were younger?

Duggar historian reporting in, haha.

Jedidiah was described by his siblings as being a lot like JB in that he has really good business sense. Michelle once described him as “one of the kindest men I’ve ever known.” He seems to be one of the more extroverted boys, and was supposedly one of Grandma Mary’s favorites along with Amy and Jinger. 

Jeremiah was always described as the “quiet” twin and I believe Michelle described him as diplomatic. Jessa said on Instagram that he has great memory and that should would often find him reading and making notes on the Bible. He was the Duggar who loved chess and wrote Michelle a poem when the family did the dinner theatre on 19kac. He also helped spearhead the Wedding decorations for Jinger, Joe, Josiah, and Joy.

Jason is obviously notoriously known for falling in the orchestra pit. As a kid, he was the first one who really into gardening, grew his own cucumbers, and made his own pickles. He and Josiah were the two who started the short lived Duggar Studios. Is very close to his buddy Jana, and has even defended her on her own Instagram posts against people who think she just sits around all day. 

James was known for being a rambunctious, high energy kid. He clearly adored Jill growing up and as a kid told one of the producers who was expecting that they should name their first child Jill if it’s a girl. James was described by Michelle as “the fun buddy” (later the fun uncle) which is why he accompanied her on Josie’s hospital visits. He was really close with JD. Spurgeon says James is his favorite uncle. 

Justin was known for his fashion choices on 19KAC as he was seen almost always wearing a newsboys cap. Justin has been described as the most athletic Duggar and loved Basketball. He also has an interest in mechanics and started apprenticing under Kendra’s father several years ago. 

Edited September 17, 2020 by VioletWitch

[PikaScrewChu]

1 hour ago, Zella said:

The boys are all pretty bland and interchangeable, so they will never be the ratings draw, in my opinion. The older girls were all more photogenic. They also had traits that you could distinguish (Jana was the worker, Jill was the midwife, Jessa was the mean girl, Jinger was the photographer, Joy was the tomboy). They were like their own boy band in that if you were a fundie female viewer you could probably glom on at least one of them to relate to. The younger boys don't seem to have individual personalities (at least none I have detected) and they're not dreamy-looking enough to swoon over. Even the older boys that seem to have more recognizable personalities--I don't think viewers who are actually fans really care about the daughters-in-law the way they do about the Duggar daughters because they've watched the latter grow up and probably feel somehow vested in them. 

Had Marjorie actually stuck around, I think she would have captured the viewer's imaginations. Lucky for her, she didn't. 

The daughters-in-law are coming from IBLP families (except Kendra iirc) and well, they don't have many options to explore interests to begin with. TLC doesn't have much to work with and can't really mold them into some niche like they did with the other Duggars.

The two daughters-in-law that do give a reaction are Anna and Lauren. Anna solely because she has been a part of the clan and show for a long time. Lauren, well she's a drama queen.

I'd argue they could easily drum up interest in the Howlers' courtships and weddings with choosing someone who has flair and is savvy enough to fit within TLC's editing niche. But are there any women raised within IBLP to do that? My guess is naw. They could have really worked with the "Abbie is a nurse" angle on the show but nah.

 

[Tikichick]

28 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

Constable JD was also a thing pre-courtship. 

I've seen that mentioned here before, but somehow I never saw that onscreen at all.   Did they actually feature that on the show, and manage to drag a few sentences out of his lips in the process?

I remember seeing stories where they were featuring Josh the wonderful.  My memories of JD was just this lurking, generally silent, seemingly reluctant participant on the show.  And then the rest were either shown occasionally singing somewhere, doing grunt work as part of Duggar Inc. youngest wildly running about either the house or outside, lining up at TTH cafeteria or being lined up as part of the herd to get on the bus or in the RV or simply walk along as part of the demonstration of the Duggar mass of humanity when going anywhere.  Josh was the only male offspring I remember seeing being featured in a way to suggest individual talents or personality.   

[CalicoKitty]

9 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

I've seen that mentioned here before, but somehow I never saw that onscreen at all.   Did they actually feature that on the show, and manage to drag a few sentences out of his lips in the process?

I remember seeing stories where they were featuring Josh the wonderful.  My memories of JD was just this lurking, generally silent, seemingly reluctant participant on the show.  And then the rest were either shown occasionally singing somewhere, doing grunt work as part of Duggar Inc. youngest wildly running about either the house or outside, lining up at TTH cafeteria or being lined up as part of the herd to get on the bus or in the RV or simply walk along as part of the demonstration of the Duggar mass of humanity when going anywhere.  Josh was the only male offspring I remember seeing being featured in a way to suggest individual talents or personality.   

Not only did they show JD on "patrol", JB went along on a call.

[louannems]

1 hour ago, VioletWitch said:

Duggar historian reporting in, haha.

Jedidiah was described by his siblings as being a lot like JB in that he has really good business sense. Michelle once described him as “one of the kindest men I’ve ever known.” He seems to be one of the more extroverted boys, and was supposedly one of Grandma Mary’s favorites along with Amy and Jinger. 

Jeremiah was always described as the “quiet” twin and I believe Michelle described him as diplomatic. Jessa said on Instagram that he has great memory and that should would often find him reading and making notes on the Bible. He was the Duggar who loved chess and wrote Michelle a poem when the family did the dinner theatre on 19kac. He also helped spearhead the Wedding decorations for Jinger, Joe, Josiah, and Joy.

Jason is obviously notoriously known for falling in the orchestra pit. As a kid, he was the first one who really into gardening, grew his own cucumbers, and made his own pickles. He and Josiah were the two who started the short lived Duggar Studios. Is very close to his buddy Jana, and has even defended her on her own Instagram posts against people who think she just sits around all day. 

James was known for being a rambunctious, high energy kid. He clearly adored Jill growing up and as a kid told one of the producers who was expecting that they should name their first child Jill if it’s a girl. James was described by Michelle as “the fun buddy” (later the fun uncle) which is why he accompanied her on Josie’s hospital visits. He was really close with JB. Spurgeon says James is his favorite uncle. 

Justin was known for his fashion choices on 19KAC as he was seen almost always wearing a newsboys cap. Justin has been described as the most athletic Duggar and loved Basketball. He also has an interest in mechanics and started apprenticing under Kendra’s father several years ago. 

Great descriptions but didn't you forget Jackson?  He was wild, feral really, and later on preferred bow ties and photo- bombing.

[VioletWitch]

4 minutes ago, louannems said:

Great descriptions but didn't you forget Jackson?  He was wild, feral really, and later on preferred bow ties and photo- bombing.

Oh, he is, but I didn’t include him because I figured most would already know him considering he was featured heavily on 19KAC

[dargosmydaddy]

3 hours ago, VioletWitch said:

Justin was known for his fashion choices on 19KAC as he was seen almost always wearing a newsboys cap.

Didn't he also have a sailor's cap at some point, or am I imagining that?

[VioletWitch]

12 minutes ago, dargosmydaddy said:

Didn't he also have a sailor's cap at some point, or am I imagining that?

Yes, he did!

[JAYJAY1979]

Josh even narrated one of the specials..so I think he was intended to be the main focus..but the 4 Duggar sisters ended up stealing the show partly due to distinct personality traits..and also cause people were rooting for them to break free.

Even now, Josie and to a lesser extent Johannah (she's the 15 year old that never smiles, right) get more attention.  

[VioletWitch]

Johannah reminds me so much of Jinger in her looks and mannerisms. She even has the side eye and the “like...yeah”.

I wouldn’t be opposed to seeing more of the middle kids. I’m kind of getting bored of the older ones. 

[dargosmydaddy]

1 hour ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

Even now, Josie and to a lesser extent Johannah (she's the 15 year old that never smiles, right) get more attention.  

Johannah is 15 next month, and, as VioletWitch said, is kind of snarky/ bored looking. Thirteen-year-old Jennifer is the one who always looks completely miserable.

I think Johannah will (sadly) end up marrying young... I think she looks up to Joy the way Joy looked up to the oldest sisters. And Johannah at least got a smidge of parental attention being the first girl after all those Howlers, and she seems deeply enmeshed in the fundie-girl friend group (frequently pictured/ friendly with girls who are several years older than her and possibly courting her brothers). But I could totally see Jennifer and Jordyn, the true Lost Girls, making a break for it, and maybe taking Jackson (who never seemed to fit in with his brothers) with them. And I would love to watch a show about that, but for their sake I hope they get to live fulfilling, non-fundie lives completely out of the public eye.

Edited September 17, 2020 by dargosmydaddy

[VioletWitch]

Jordyn’s undoing might be her bond with Jessa. Jessa is practically the Duggar Family spokesperson, and with her other buddy Justin courting so young I could see her following suit. She seems happy and giggly in her TH’s now, she reminds me a bit of Jill in the 19KAC days. 

I think Jeremiah will probably court later than the other guys but probably before Jackson. He just seems really introverted and I think he’s probably the brightest out of the boys. Jason will go for someone he can build his business with, either a Jana type or an Erin Bates type. 

[kaleidoscope]

Rumors about possible courtships  (taken from another site)

- Jed with Katey N. She’s 22 years old, lives in Arizona. Her family is involved with IBLP. Her father likes the idea of children being betrothed. The Duggars are also a fan of that, Josh was betrothed to a girl when he was 14, but ended because of the molestation.

- Jer with Olivia Collingsworth. She’s 22 years old. The Collingsworth family are most known for their gospel singing family music group. Jana, James and Jer were at one of their show in Arkansas this week

- Justin with Claire Spivey. She’s 19 years old. She’s from Texas and her family is part of IBLP. They are together for over a year.

- Jason or James with Lauren Caldwell

 

I have no idea about how true any of this is.  But, it's fun to speculate anyway.  Maybe JB is hoping for a double wedding with the twins.

Edited September 19, 2020 by kaleidoscope

[madpsych78]

There's a good chance there will be one courtship, based on the episode title. However, I wouldn't be surprised if there is more than one courtship.

[Nysha]

Many posters on the TWoP forum swore JD was on the autism spectrum because he rarely engaged with his siblings on the show. I think he didn't like being on the show or being in Josh's shadow all the time.

It didn't take any time at all for Josh to get the smug reputation. At that time having someone so obviously naive and inexperienced spout off how much holier and exceptional their family's life style was compared to "most people/families" was kind of fascinating and cringy at the same time.

 

[VioletWitch]

2 hours ago, Nysha said:

Many posters on the TWoP forum swore JD was on the autism spectrum because he rarely engaged with his siblings on the show. I think he didn't like being on the show or being in Josh's shadow all the time.

It didn't take any time at all for Josh to get the smug reputation. At that time having someone so obviously naive and inexperienced spout off how much holier and exceptional their family's life style was compared to "most people/families" was kind of fascinating and cringy at the same time.

 

I remember that! People thought JB and Michelle were purposely hiding him away because of a disability. I always believed they trusted him and sort of let him do his own thing within limits, of course. When Josie was born and the family moved away JD and Joe stayed in the big house. I think there is a lot of trust there. 

And yes, Josh has always been smug. I really feel like he was Michelle’s favorite growing up. 

[GeeGolly]

It does seem that Josh cast a fairly big shadow, especially over JD & Joe. And Josiah seemed to cast a smaller shadow over the younger boys down to Justin, which Jackson photobombed his way out of.

Then there was the golden girls, plus Joy. And then Josie.

To me that shows that Michelle has really been the one heading this supposed patriarchal family.

JD certainly came into his own after Josh was permanently knocked off his throne. I still don't think JB is over his disappointment having 10 boys and the one son who had some political potential screwed it up. 

A really telling scene showing JB's feelings about JD was when JB was describing when JD and Abbie met. Its hard to describe the tone, but it was like JB was surprised JD actually found a love interest and he made JD kind of look like a desperate creep. They were standing in the church, I think in OK, and JB pointed to the spot they met. JB said JD was very smitten right away. JD popped right in and said so was Abbie. JB kind of chuckled and said something like, well yes. It was kind of JD's fuck-you moment.

So here we are, some 5 years after Ashley Madison and 3 sons later, and JB is trying to make Jed! happen. I think JD will try and turn Justin into a politician as well.

[crazy8s]

and while JED! is running for office and Jeer is the "campaign manager" Jeer managed to get his flight instructor's license, have 5 LLCs formed in his name by JB and Jimmy Burns,/accountant. train Lawson and Nathan Bates in flying so Lawson could get his pilot's license, be available for TLC filming. etc

 

 

 

[awaken]

Am I the only one who doesn’t understand why the nickname is Jeer, when his name is “Jer”emiah?  

[Zella]

Just now, awaken said:

Am I the only one who doesn’t understand why the nickname is Jeer, when his name is “Jer”emiah?  

No, you are not alone. I've always read it as Jer and was confused when I heard them calling him Jeer. 

[awaken]

1 minute ago, Zella said:

No, you are not alone. I've always read it as Jer and was confused when I heard them calling him Jeer. 

I was thinking maybe they pronounce Jeremiah differently or something. Jeeremiah!  

[Temperance]

10 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

It does seem that Josh cast a fairly big shadow, especially over JD & Joe. And Josiah seemed to cast a smaller shadow over the younger boys down to Justin, which Jackson photobombed his way out of.

Then there was the golden girls, plus Joy. And then Josie.

To me that shows that Michelle has really been the one heading this supposed patriarchal family.

JD certainly came into his own after Josh was permanently knocked off his throne. I still don't think JB is over his disappointment having 10 boys and the one son who had some political potential screwed it up. 

A really telling scene showing JB's feelings about JD was when JB was describing when JD and Abbie met. Its hard to describe the tone, but it was like JB was surprised JD actually found a love interest and he made JD kind of look like a desperate creep. They were standing in the church, I think in OK, and JB pointed to the spot they met. JB said JD was very smitten right away. JD popped right in and said so was Abbie. JB kind of chuckled and said something like, well yes. It was kind of JD's fuck-you moment.

So here we are, some 5 years after Ashley Madison and 3 sons later, and JB is trying to make Jed! happen. I think JD will try and turn Justin into a politician as well.

I remember during the announcements the way Abbie told us "I love John".  It was clear that she had picked up on the fact a lot of the family, particularly his parents, thought he was hopeless. 

Jed! seems the right combination of smug and koolaid drunk on their beliefs. 

[MichaelaRae]

2 hours ago, iwantcookies said:

I doubt any of JB offspring will become politicians. People will see the puppet strings attached to daddy and the fact that all of the offspring are uneducated. 

I ADORE the optimism you have about America voters seeing puppet strings and not being fooled by them. I WISH I still believed that. ❤️ 

[Nysha]

9 hours ago, VioletWitch said:

I think Jed has much more polish and I know this isn’t saying much, but is probably more mature and a better person all around. 

He might be a better person all around, but he's immature enough to think it's a good idea to show the world that he's sleeping in a twin bed with his twin in a matching bed 3 feet away. 

[Zella]

2 minutes ago, Nysha said:

He might be a better person all around, but he's immature enough to think it's a good idea to show the world that he's sleeping in a twin bed with his twin in a matching bed 3 feet away. 

God that episode of them showing off their abode was so cringe-inducing. And I don't think any of them were aware of how sheltered and pathetic it made them look. I actually sort of felt sorry for them.

[VioletWitch]

29 minutes ago, Zella said:

God that episode of them showing off their abode was so cringe-inducing. And I don't think any of them were aware of how sheltered and pathetic it made them look. I actually sort of felt sorry for them.

I don’t think any of these kids have ever slept alone in a room in their lives 

[Zella]

1 minute ago, VioletWitch said:

I don’t think any of these kids have ever slept alone in a room in their lives 

Agreed. I think that's a big part of why Jill was so clingy when she first got married to Derick too. I think she literally had no idea how to be in a house by herself for any length of time. 

[VioletWitch]

1 hour ago, Zella said:

Agreed. I think that's a big part of why Jill was so clingy when she first got married to Derick too. I think she literally had no idea how to be in a house by herself for any length of time. 

I remember her pictures of sitting in a car outside of Derick’s work waiting for him with James! She always had her buddies over. But I would have people over too if I was in that big house alone all day 

[GeeGolly]

Going from the chaos of the TTH to solitude must be deafening for some of them. I remember Alyssa Bates being asked if she missed the environment of the Bates household. She said misses her family, but no, she doesn't miss being around all of them all the time.

The Duggar family seems to have a harder time adjusting. Gothard really wove enmeshment throughout his entire program(ing), and the Duggars blindly fell for it all.