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The Lonely Js Club: Jana, Jason & James

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On 1/9/2022 at 10:19 PM, Scarlett45 said:

most people (including women) are beings with strong drives for partnered sex, and since Jana lives in a culture where by she can’t meet that drive outside of marriage, that’s a big motivator to marry. 

That doesn't mean she hasn't already had sex with somebody.   Plenty of people she knows aren't married.  And I think she & the others have a LOT more freedom than most people believe. 

I think she likes things just fine the way they are.  I think she does what she wants, when she wants, because she wants and her dad pays for it.  I believe Jana has been driving her own bus for years and has no accountability partners for real, just for an occasional social media post, to keep the believers believing.  

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11 minutes ago, SnapHappy said:

That doesn't mean she hasn't already had sex with somebody.   Plenty of people she knows aren't married.  And I think she & the others have a LOT more freedom than most people believe. 

I think she likes things just fine the way they are.  I think she does what she wants, when she wants, because she wants and her dad pays for it.  I believe Jana has been driving her own bus for years and has no accountability partners for real, just for an occasional social media post, to keep the believers believing.  

Yes you’re right. Jana has a lot more freedom than many of her married peers, and I fully believe that she’s free to do what she wants for the most part so long as she follows JB’s guidelines. I doubt he spies on her. 

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Jana definitely has earned Boob’s trust. She seems to be the accountability partner for various siblings and also Meechelle. Her life isn’t one I would want, but given her childhood and education, she seems happy enough. Obviously we don’t really know how she feels, but she does have more freedom and choices than say, Joy.

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13 minutes ago, SnapHappy said:

That doesn't mean she hasn't already had sex with somebody.   Plenty of people she knows aren't married.  And I think she & the others have a LOT more freedom than most people believe. 

I think she likes things just fine the way they are.  I think she does what she wants, when she wants, because she wants and her dad pays for it.  I believe Jana has been driving her own bus for years and has no accountability partners for real, just for an occasional social media post, to keep the believers believing.  

I would be very shocked if Jana has every romantically kissed a guy never mind have sex.

As far as freedoms, I feel Jana has much more autonomy and opportunities than her now married sisters had when they were single, but I feel its mostly due to trust. Jana's parents trust her to make the 'right' decisions. I do believe though, other than a quick run to Starbucks or a garden center, Jana always has an accountability partner with her. And I certainly think she would not, and could not, date anyone without one.

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1 minute ago, GeeGolly said:

I would be very shocked if Jana has every romantically kissed a guy never mind have sex.

I wasn't referring to a guy. 

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1 minute ago, SnapHappy said:

I wasn't referring to a guy. 

I'd be even more shocked if she romantically kissed a woman. There's still many mainstream folks who have difficulty acknowledging their non-hetero sexuality to themselves. I'd find it very hard to believe anyone raised like Jana could, even for a moment acknowledge it, much less for real, or long enough to act upon it.

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46 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I'd be even more shocked if she romantically kissed a woman. There's still many mainstream folks who have difficulty acknowledging their non-hetero sexuality to themselves. I'd find it very hard to believe anyone raised like Jana could, even for a moment acknowledge it, much less for real, or long enough to act upon it.

I hear what you're saying and I can easily see where you may be correct.   But I also look at the many repressive societies throughout the world and history and recognize many people accustomed to very closed off belief systems have acted on those thoughts so it clearly is possible.  Maybe even moreso in our current American society where she cannot be oblivious to the fact that the idea is widely accepted in society as a whole.   

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I think Jana is not happy, and has been trained to think that means something is wrong with her.  She’s been  trained to think her life under all the rules is supposed to be perfect,  therefore the fault lies with her emotions if she’s not happy.  Sort of like the housewives of generations past that wanted careers and were told no. ( there is nothing wrong about staying at home if that is what works for you ).  
 

I do not think she is allowed to travel alone.  I’m not even sure it would actually be safe for her to do so, sadly.  She’s very sheltered and she is a minor celebrity.  There would be people harassing her about her family, or men seeing if they could be ‘the first’.  You or I would know how to deal with that.  She  doesn’t.  
JB and Michelle have crippled their offspring.   

 

Edited by mythoughtis
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23 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

 She’s very sheltered and she is a minor celebrity.  

What has she ever been sheltered from?   Poverty? Hate? Homosexuality? Starvation? Porn? Drug Abuse? Intolerance? Theft? Natural Disasters? Beyonce? 

At almost 32, she knows they all exist, what they are at their core and how the world in general feels about them. While she may not have fully and comprehensively experienced every single one of them on a fundamental level, she's no sheltered waif, unaware and unknowing.  

The girl knows what's what.  

 

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33 minutes ago, SnapHappy said:

What has she ever been sheltered from?   Poverty? Hate? Homosexuality? Starvation? Porn? Drug Abuse? Intolerance? Theft? Natural Disasters? Beyonce? 

At almost 32, she knows they all exist, what they are at their core and how the world in general feels about them. While she may not have fully and comprehensively experienced every single one of them on a fundamental level, she's no sheltered waif, unaware and unknowing.  

The girl knows what's what.  

 

Really?  You think she’s got the smarts to not accept a sketchy ride if her car breaks down?  Or to get a hotel room in the right hotel  if her flight gets delayed overnight?  And how to get there safely? Or to decide whether it’s safe to get on an elevator if she’s  the only female? 
Remember Gothard abused people like her in his office building full of other people and they just accepted it.  Their families didn’t give them the background to prevent it. 
I’m referencing her personal safety.  I would feel perfectly safe getting in a vehicle and driving halfway across the country without a companion.  I don’t Jana is capable of safely doing that especially with all the Josh publicity. 

Edited by mythoughtis
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37 minutes ago, SnapHappy said:

What has she ever been sheltered from?   Poverty? Hate? Homosexuality? Starvation? Porn? Drug Abuse? Intolerance? Theft? Natural Disasters? Beyonce? 

At almost 32, she knows they all exist, what they are at their core and how the world in general feels about them. While she may not have fully and comprehensively experienced every single one of them on a fundamental level, she's no sheltered waif, unaware and unknowing.  

The girl knows what's what.  

 

I would have to respectfully disagree about this.

She has no access to news -- except tidbits that her parents filter from what they watch on Fox News. She has never read a book -- other than a few novels approved by Gothard. She hasn't read a magazine, watched a television show (other than Chip and Joanna Gaines), or been to a movie.

The knowledge that she has of the world outside the cult is heavily editorialized. It's WILD out here: children are sexually assaulted in public schools; women aren't safe on the streets; etc.

She may know that poverty exists (among people who don't believe in the right Jesus). "Hate" is something that is directed at her family because they believe in the right Jesus. Homosexuality is a sin of people who have not accepted Jesus. Starvation (see "Poverty" above). And so on . . .

Suggesting that she knows about these things implies that she has access to the same media that we do, and she doesn't. She may have more "freedom" than her sisters did when they were at home, but I don't think she's using that relative freedom to access anything interesting -- she was given that freedom only when her parents were sure that they had squeezed every bit of independence out of her.

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21 minutes ago, cmr2014 said:

She has no access to news -- except tidbits that her parents filter from what they watch on Fox News. She has never read a book -- other than a few novels approved by Gothard. She hasn't read a magazine, watched a television show (other than Chip and Joanna Gaines), or been to a movie.

The knowledge that she has of the world outside the cult is heavily editorialized. It's WILD out here: children are sexually assaulted in public schools; women aren't safe on the streets; etc.

She may know that poverty exists (among people who don't believe in the right Jesus). "Hate" is something that is directed at her family because they believe in the right Jesus. Homosexuality is a sin of people who have not accepted Jesus. Starvation (see "Poverty" above). And so on . . .

Suggesting that she knows about these things implies that she has access to the same media that we do, and she doesn't. She may have more "freedom" than her sisters did when they were at home, but I don't think she's using that relative freedom to access anything interesting -- she was given that freedom only when her parents were sure that they had squeezed every bit of independence out of her.

Not a single one of those things has been proven about Jana.  

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well according to Jason, Jana has a very full life and can travel alone anytime she wants....

that was his response to comments about him appearing to be a chaperone for Jana somewhere a while back. we have yet to see any evidence of that, as she is always shown traveling with JB, the fam, a brother or 2. Even if Laura is along there is always JB or Jason, James etc. next year it will be Jackson.

way, way back on the show on "trading jurisdiction day" the 5 older girls were taught about all things auto related 🤣🤣 like changing a tire, checking oil and all. I remember little Joy being the only one interested. The others just pretended for the show.  https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3anccm

 my memory fails sometimes, but wasn't there some story about Jana or some of the girls being stranded on the side of the road with a broken down vehicle and waiting for one of the brothers to come rescue them?

 

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She has such a smug and punchable face. What’s the deal with these pictures/videos of a certain type of woman with smug expressions sitting in cars? It’s the female equivalent of the bearded , hat wearing men sitting in their cars making loud, ranting videos. 
 

 

69B488F9-2B90-4F0D-B368-03A576F617EF.jpeg

Edited by Cinnabon
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17 minutes ago, lilwhitelion said:

Yikes that's a lot of wrinkles on her forehead!

I was just going to say that she’s starting to show her age, at least in that picture.

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27 minutes ago, farmgal4 said:

I was just going to say that she’s starting to show her age, at least in that picture.

Eh, she's making a face. Look at how high her eyebrows are. I can conjure up some forehead wrinkles if I do that. 

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7 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

She has such a smug and punchable face. What’s the deal with these pictures/videos of a certain type of woman with smug expressions sitting in cars? It’s the female equivalent of the bearded , hat wearing men sitting in their cars making loud, ranting videos. 
 

 

69B488F9-2B90-4F0D-B368-03A576F617EF.jpeg

It’s part of Duggar DNA to be smug.

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On 1/11/2022 at 12:08 PM, mythoughtis said:

I think Jana is not happy, and has been trained to think that means something is wrong with her.  She’s been  trained to think her life under all the rules is supposed to be perfect,  therefore the fault lies with her emotions if she’s not happy.  Sort of like the housewives of generations past that wanted careers and were told no. ( there is nothing wrong about staying at home if that is what works for you ).  
 

I do not think she is allowed to travel alone.  I’m not even sure it would actually be safe for her to do so, sadly.  She’s very sheltered and she is a minor celebrity.  There would be people harassing her about her family, or men seeing if they could be ‘the first’.  You or I would know how to deal with that.  She  doesn’t.  
JB and Michelle have crippled their offspring.   

 

I think it's also quite plausible that she is one of the siblings quite likely to recognize the disconnect between what she has been trained and what is factually true about certain things.   Josh's case had to trigger off many questions in the mind of at least several of his siblings.   I'd imagine some of them have had conversations over the years, and wouldn't be surprised to find that Josh's situation triggered a bunch more.  

It's not impossible that several of them are in a state of stasis right now, seemingly going along like normal while thoughts are percolating in their head.   It's entirely possible that one, or more, eventually make moves to take their lives in a different direction.   For most of them no doubt the first steps will be the hardest, because the part of parenting JB & M have made absolutely certain to do a bang up job with is stunting their childrens' educations and therefore their abilities to pursue gainful employment or independent income producing opportunities outside the fold in any meaningful way.  Considering how many abused women stay trapped in horrible situations because they can't figure out a way it will be possible to survive if they leave it's not incredibly surprising 19 Duggar offspring purposefully handicapped by their parents would find it daunting to step out on their own.   

It might take a long time, but I wouldn't be surprised to see one or more eventually step away, especially if the family coffers begin to slim down while offspring keep on coming.     

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I don't see any of the Duggar 19, including Jana, wanting to leave the fold. I don't think the trial has changed that.

Even Jill, who was basically dragged and pushed away, hangs tight to much of what she was taught growing up.

Not one Duggar, besides the Felon, looks unhappy to me. Not even angry Jessa.

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My reading is that most of the Duggarlings are happy/relieved that Josh is in jail, but I fully admit that this might be me projecting.

Edited by quarks
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22 hours ago, Tikichick said:

It might take a long time, but I wouldn't be surprised to see one or more eventually step away, especially if the family coffers begin to slim down while offspring keep on coming.  

What's going to be interesting is what happens when the parents shuffle off this mortal coil.  In theory the eldest son would become the king of the castle but the reality here is that this isn't going to happen.  Does the next son step up?  Or will the family start living the way most families do and move on to lives and families of their own?  Staying close, presumably, but not cult close.

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1 hour ago, SusannahM said:

What's going to be interesting is what happens when the parents shuffle off this mortal coil.  In theory the eldest son would become the king of the castle but the reality here is that this isn't going to happen.  Does the next son step up?  Or will the family start living the way most families do and move on to lives and families of their own?  Staying close, presumably, but not cult close.

Absolutely the loss of the parents will likely cause seismic change.   Even if some of them start moving into their own lives separately it doesn't have to mean they break away from the family entirely or abandon all thoughts of their faith.   That seems to be the idea whenever breaking away is discussed.

Jill has a separate life, still maintains contact with family members and still lives according to a faith-based lifestyle.   She wears some different clothing now, changes her hair occasionally, has a piercing and has imbibed in alcoholic beverages.   Those aren't very meaningful changes in my book.   So far the best thing I see is her child attending an actual accredited school.   The lack of education her parents insisted on really stymied her and her siblings, and continues to do so.

 I really hope most of that generation of grandchildren also have the opportunity for a real education, along with exposure to some other ideas and perspectives outside of a very closed set of controlled beliefs and lifestyle.   I think it's so sad that Spurgeon is put out there as bait for comment about ridiculous sayings when, if he was given a chance at education and stimulation for his curiosity and imagination his real potential might be unlocked -- and he might genuinely be an entertaining conversationalist even at his current age to boot.       

 

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@Tikichick, it's really sad that with the way Jessa has exposed her children on SM, we've seen how Spurgeon is not being given the stimulation and activities, and education, that would help him develop his potential. Jill's been - certainly compared to Jessa - more limited in how she's put her kids on social media in the last few years. But it's clear that Izzy has enjoyed school activities and seems happy and genuinely smiling in Jill's posts on SM where he's featured. 

Spurgeon may be no more bored and under-educated than many of his home-schooled cousins, but their parents don't seem to be putting them out on SM in ways that show it. And their parents don't attribute sometimes downright creepy "sayings" to those kids. 

Yeah, Jessa's a mess.

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9 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Absolutely the loss of the parents will likely cause seismic change.   Even if some of them start moving into their own lives separately it doesn't have to mean they break away from the family entirely or abandon all thoughts of their faith.   That seems to be the idea whenever breaking away is discussed.

Jill has a separate life, still maintains contact with family members and still lives according to a faith-based lifestyle.   She wears some different clothing now, changes her hair occasionally, has a piercing and has imbibed in alcoholic beverages.   Those aren't very meaningful changes in my book.   So far the best thing I see is her child attending an actual accredited school.   The lack of education her parents insisted on really stymied her and her siblings, and continues to do so.

 I really hope most of that generation of grandchildren also have the opportunity for a real education, along with exposure to some other ideas and perspectives outside of a very closed set of controlled beliefs and lifestyle.   I think it's so sad that Spurgeon is put out there as bait for comment about ridiculous sayings when, if he was given a chance at education and stimulation for his curiosity and imagination his real potential might be unlocked -- and he might genuinely be an entertaining conversationalist even at his current age to boot.       

 

I understand what you are saying about the changes Jill has made not being meaningful  to us but for HER the probably are very meaningful. She has made some small steps. Hopefully this will lead her to making bigger steps. She probably will always lead a faith based life but she has made a start , yes a small start, to leading a more open, compassionate  accepting life.  No one knows what the future holds.

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17 hours ago, crazycatlady58 said:

I understand what you are saying about the changes Jill has made not being meaningful  to us but for HER the probably are very meaningful. She has made some small steps. Hopefully this will lead her to making bigger steps. She probably will always lead a faith based life but she has made a start , yes a small start, to leading a more open, compassionate  accepting life.  No one knows what the future holds.

Oh those types of changes are no doubt significant for someone raised in the restrictions Jill was.   Absolutely I was referring to how the changes are rather insignificant at the end of the day to those not used to that kind of constriction.

I don't have a problem with someone leading a faith based life and definitely don't advocate everyone giving up their faith as if faith itself is something negative.   Where I have a problem with those who practice fundamentalism is when it looks to restrict, isolate and control others.  Even going back through history it's most often women who are subject to most of the restrictions.   

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18 hours ago, crazycatlady58 said:

I understand what you are saying about the changes Jill has made not being meaningful  to us but for HER the probably are very meaningful. She has made some small steps. Hopefully this will lead her to making bigger steps. She probably will always lead a faith based life but she has made a start , yes a small start, to leading a more open, compassionate  accepting life.  No one knows what the future holds.

I'm thinking immigrants, the LGBTQ+ community and women seeking to terminate their pregnancies, among others, might not find Jill any more compassionate or accepting than her siblings are.

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13 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm thinking immigrants, the LGBTQ+ community and women seeking to terminate their pregnancies, among others, might not find Jill any more compassionate or accepting than her siblings are.

Yep, that’s when it becomes dangerous and intolerable. And it’s extremely dangerous IMO.

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38 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm thinking immigrants, the LGBTQ+ community and women seeking to terminate their pregnancies, among others, might not find Jill any more compassionate or accepting than her siblings are.

Yes, as I said her small steps may lead to her becoming more compassionate, and if not her children may have a more compassionate viewpoint. 

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3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm thinking immigrants, the LGBTQ+ community and women seeking to terminate their pregnancies, among others, might not find Jill any more compassionate or accepting than her siblings are.

I'll try again on this one.  That isn't the dividing line for being fundie, IMO.  Fundies are generally a subset of people with those views.  

Jill has seemed to show acceptance and interest in the foreign students she has run into.  I'm not sure how she feels about immigrants.  But she has been shedding most of the defining characteristics of true fundamentalism.  

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5 hours ago, Tikichick said:

Where I have a problem with those who practice fundamentalism is when it looks to restrict, isolate and control others.  Even going back through history it's most often women who are subject to most of the restrictions.   

This. No matter what you call such people (fundamentalists or otherwise), they are dangerous and must be called out at every turn. So far, I have yet to see a Duggar who doesn’t want to control others in this way. Even Jill.

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4 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm thinking immigrants, the LGBTQ+ community and women seeking to terminate their pregnancies, among others, might not find Jill any more compassionate or accepting than her siblings are.

Jill has a right to hold and express her own opinions on these subjects, including in her social media.  These topics are controversial because some people hold opinions for and others against it.  I have not seen anyone posting information  about her making robocalls, standing in protest lines outside clinics, speaking at county board meetings, running for office on a platform against people,  or otherwise taking actual actions to prevent people living their lives.   
 

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4 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm thinking immigrants, the LGBTQ+ community and women seeking to terminate their pregnancies, among others, might not find Jill any more compassionate or accepting than her siblings are.

Jill grew up in a world where she she was taught that she, herself, had no rights and no control over her own life or her own body.

Therapy might help her to understand that she does, in fact, have value as a person and does, in fact, have the right to control her own body. The fact that she is using birth control suggests that she is making some steps forward in this area.

I think that believing that she is an individual with her own rights is the first step in understanding that other people also have fundamental value as they are, and have their own rights to their own bodies. Whether she ever makes this next step remains to be seen, but I don't think there's any way she could get there without taking this first step.

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1 hour ago, Absolom said:

I'll try again on this one.  That isn't the dividing line for being fundie, IMO.  Fundies are generally a subset of people with those views.  

Jill has seemed to show acceptance and interest in the foreign students she has run into.  I'm not sure how she feels about immigrants.  But she has been shedding most of the defining characteristics of true fundamentalism.  

3 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

Jill has a right to hold and express her own opinions on these subjects, including in her social media.  These topics are controversial because some people hold opinions for and others against it.  I have not seen anyone posting information  about her making robocalls, standing in protest lines outside clinics, speaking at county board meetings, running for office on a platform against people,  or otherwise taking actual actions to prevent people living their lives.   

I was responding to a post talking about Jill's compassion and acceptance. Nothing she has done leads me to believe she has edged forward in this area. Fundy, uber Christian or whatever else Jill and Derrick may be, is irrelevant to me. Derick was shown "building a wall" (his words) with baby Izzy. Jill's reaction of amusement was quite telling to me.

I agree @mythoughtis about crossing the line from beliefs to interfering with others' rights. Its a big deal changer for me. Derick has spouted openly against those who live differently than him and Jill has backed him. Derick crossed the line, Jill walked right up to the line. 

 

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2 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

Jill has a right to hold and express her own opinions on these subjects, including in her social media.  These topics are controversial because some people hold opinions for and others against it.  I have not seen anyone posting information  about her making robocalls, standing in protest lines outside clinics, speaking at county board meetings, running for office on a platform against people,  or otherwise taking actual actions to prevent people living their lives.   
 

True, but supporting those who DO take part in those things makes them just as responsible.  JMHO.

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Jana posted another story today, driving in the snow storm. She has been posting a lot lately (for her).  I wish she would get out and live her own life but don't see that happening.  

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Wow, those are some nice shots. Wasn't James the one who decorated the Christmas gift bags? It's sad to think he has artistic talent that never had a chance to be developed. 

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1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

Wow, those are some nice shots. Wasn't James the one who decorated the Christmas gift bags? It's sad to think he has artistic talent that never had a chance to be developed. 

I was thinking the same thing.  Jason also had some nice shots of the snow and he puts most of his insta pics videos to music (ebil secular music). Though sadly his last insta video is of him putting a hat rack for all his caps which is fine but it is of course in the "boys'" room.  Both seem to have some skills and talents, they should move out together and work for themselves (ambition). Just a baby step. Hilary would be glad to help them. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, auntieminem said:

I was thinking the same thing.  Jason also had some nice shots of the snow and he puts most of his insta pics videos to music (ebil secular music). Though sadly his last insta video is of him putting a hat rack for all his caps which is fine but it is of course in the "boys'" room.  Both seem to have some skills and talents, they should move out together and work for themselves (ambition). Just a baby step. Hilary would be glad to help them. 

 

 

Maybe they can requisition Jert and Jernie's twin beds when they leave.  

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Scarlett45

Discussing the charges against Jana is fine, but do not post any information that reveals her address/contact information- even if said documents are public (i.e. a part of court proceedings.)

Discussing charges against Jana is NOT a jumping off point to speculate on other instances abuse/neglect etc towards the M-children or to elaborate on Josh's conviction and potential victims.  

 

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