S07.E01: Dragonstone

[mac123x]

Just now, Mya Stone said:

I'm super proud of myself for getting that that was Jorah. Although to be honest, it wasn't until he said Dany's name that I recognized his voice. 

I'm glad Ian Glenn's voice is so distinctive, otherwise I wouldn't have gotten it either.

I definitely need to see Euron and Littlefinger die this season. 

I was disappointed that Arya is headed south.  I'd much rather see her head towards Winterfell.  Hopefully Bran will head there at least; it'd be nice to see a Stark reunion again.

[Scarlett45]

7 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

Ian Whyte is credited as Wun Wun on IMDb but they must be wrong.  Jon would have had the good sense to burn all the bodies (including Wun Wun) after the Battle of the Bastards.  Ian must be playing one of the three giant wights (or more likely -- all three.)

While we're on the subject . . . giant wights.   Shit.

And on a related topic, if the show us a re-animiated Summer (Bran's wolf) I'm going to be REALLY upset.

I assumed Jon did have all the bodies burned and that the giant Wright was to demonstrate that the White Walkers had been able to get to giants as well. 

[stagmania]

1 minute ago, mac123x said:

I was disappointed that Arya is headed south.  I'd much rather see her head towards Winterfell.  Hopefully Bran will head there at least; it'd be nice to see a Stark reunion again.

They're totally going to make us wait another year for a Jon/Arya reunion. 

[hypnotoad]

Quote

The scene of the army of the dead on the march with freaking zombie giants was absolutely chilling, and a needed reminder of where the real war is.

Exactly. Ever since the episode Hardhome I barely have patience for the story in Kings Landing! Which is hilarious because for the longest time, I couldn't have cared less about all that tromping around in the snow!

Wait so Euron got 1000 ships built already?!? How and with what?!? Honestly I could so do without Euron and Little Finger.

Arya is a boss. I mean she wiped out the Fray family in one fell swoop. Wow. Great opening scene.

[SeanC]

Just now, anamika said:

Again, why is the onus on Jon to go discuss with her?

Because he's the one who doesn't want her to go against him in meetings, and he's the one who knows what they're going to talk about.

[Conan Troutman]

6 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

Jorah!  That arm is not looking good.  So much for finding a cure.

 

2 minutes ago, saoirse said:

So excited about Jorah! That was unexpected, and I'm really hopeful about his story line...

So it seems Sam will have to find a cure - not that he doesn't have enough on his plate already (well, he probably won't have much on his literal plate after that lovely montage but I digress) but he's probably the best shot Jorah got. I'm curious what Sam will find - we had some hint in the trailer, but I'm sure there's going to be something unexpected as well as we're well beyond the books. 

 

Pretty damn good opener overall. Dany's return was simply great - no more boring Meereen stuff, this is what we all wanted to see and it didn't disappoint. It did look real dusty though, especially for a place that windy, but oh well, who cares. 

Is Arya actually going to KL to kill Cersei or did she just say that just for funsies? Because I certainly didn't expect her to go south, at least not right away. And Cersei's not going to die that soon, either, so I'd think Arya goes to Winterfell first. 

[gbbarb]

2 minutes ago, anamika said:

Sansa is pretending to be all-seeing. That's her problem. She keeps chastising Jon for every decision he makes, despite her being wrong about everything last season. 

Are you saying Jon made the wrong decisions this episode?

Also we got Jon saying how he learned from Ned and Sansa and Arya never got to do that because they were girls. The episode is making a point of saying that Jon knows better.

Maybe she can, oh I don't know, go and ask him? Hey Jon, what's on the table today? Oh you are planning on forgiving those children? I disagree!!

Again, why is the onus on Jon to go discuss with her?

If a Stark has no say is her ancestral home then what does she have?  She has as much right to that throne as Jon.  She didn't fight him for the good of the north but if he ignores her then he diminishes her and that is wrong

[Quickbeam]

Lady Mormont is just the BEST. 

[anamika]

1 minute ago, SeanC said:

Because he's the one who doesn't want her to go against him in meetings, and he's the one who knows what they're going to talk about.

But he did not know, she was planning on disagreeing with him in public. If she was planning to do so, she should approach him and discuss before hand. Simple as that. Undermining the leader in front of his people is not the done thing. As was seen from the reaction in the room. Either she was deliberately doing it or she was showing her ignorance of how ruling is done once again.

[larapu2000]

Arya!! Girl, slayyyyyyyyyy.  Slayyyyyyy!

Little Lady Mormont for the feminism win!  (Please please please make Sansa want to also train to fight and Lady Mormont gets to help.....)

Sassy Sansa is the best Sansa.  Jon is being a condescending dick to her.  Period.  It wasn't just her "undermining" him in front of others, it was him dismissing her very valid opinion and stance on the treacherous assholes that betrayed their families.  Ugh.  And then him not listening about Cersei.  Jon Snow, you fucking tool.

[SeanC]

Just now, anamika said:

But he did not know, she was planning on disagreeing with him in public. If she was planning to do so, she should approach him and discuss before hand. 

How can she plan on disagreeing with him if she doesn't know what he's going to discuss?  She clearly hadn't heard anything about this before that moment, from the way Sophie played that scene, and voiced her reaction on the spot.  With the decision being made there, there was no other point at which to give input.

[ParadoxLost]

4 minutes ago, anamika said:

Also we got Jon saying how he learned from Ned and Sansa and Arya never got to do that because they were girls. The episode is making a point of saying that Jon knows better about certain things than her.

I think that Jon has to be smarter than Ned and Robb is a fair point and that negates the idea that Sansa is lacking in not having those lessons..

On the other hand, I think having Sansa say she learned from Cersei in an episode where Cessei has is surrounded by enemies on all fronts with no allies points to Jon being right in this instance and Sansa wrong.

I tend to think Robb and Ned would have done what Sansa suggested without her having to prompt it.  I think that not blaming the children for the crimes of the parents is a Jon thing stemming from being a bastard.

[MadMouse]

Kind of a weird episode.

 

Jon and Sansa were both right about dealing with the Umbers and Karstarks. But once it showed the heirs were both a little boy and preteen girl it would be hard to justify Sansa's approach. Really hope they don't use Lyanna Mormont as the put everyone in their place monologue character. Tormund and his guess were the NW now line added just enough humor to the scene. Jon and Sansa have way too much chemistry, once they finished arguing I thought they were going to make out.

Guess they're already setting up the Cersei/Jaime split with the reaction about Tommen. I really hope they pull his character out of the dumpster this season. None of my show watching friends understand why I love him so much.  The new KG armor looks awful, for a show that has been brilliant about costumes the fact they haven't been able to nail this is strange.  The writing for Euron still sucks, he's not threatening at all. He just comes off like a douche, even his line two hand line to Jaime while funny doesn't fit with his character.

The Arya killing the Freys just did nothing for me, even though I didn't like the reveal last season it still had a wow factor that this one didn't. I'll admit my opinion is colored by what I think is going to happen in the books with Stoneheart and friends. Question though, wheres Edmure and Roslin? Did she just leave her uncle locked up or not reveal herself?

Beric and friends was the best scene in the episode. The banter between those three is great.  I've given this show shit about character growth but man have they nailed it with the Hound. His reaction when he realizes that he probably caused the deaths of the little girl and her father was great. They didn't make him into a sap about it but you could the regret was there.

And finally Sam's working adventure. What a waste of time for a show with such a limited amount of time left. Its nice that there was just a map that said there be Dragon glass for them to find. At this rate he'll probably find Jon's birth certificate just laying around. How the fuck did Jorah get there before Dany?

Forgot about Dragonstone, Emila Clarke is really pretty and so was the castle.

[gbbarb]

1 minute ago, anamika said:

But he did not know, she was planning on disagreeing with him in public. If she was planning to do so, she should approach him and discuss before hand. Simple as that. Undermining the leader in front of his people is not the done thing. As was seen from the reaction in the room. Either she was deliberately doing it or she was showing her ignorance of how ruling is done once again.

Which is precisely why he needs to talk to her prior to make sure they are a united front.  Jon is king the burden is on him.

[Dev F]

2 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

The pre-credit scene was awesome.  The North remembers -- damn straight. I'll just hand-wave past Arya's ability to be a good foot taller while masquerading as Walder Frey.

But that's consistent with the way the faces have always worked on the show. They're not just, like, Halloween masks; they transform the wearer's whole body to resemble the person the face belonged to.

All in all, I thought this was a solid if not mind-blowing episode. I like that they're retaining some of the nuances of the political situation in the North, and that they've found interesting character-based stuff to do with Lord Beric and the Brotherhood, as they force the Hound to confront the question of who deserves to live or die; it's a big improvement over their brief appearance last season, which felt very plotty, as if they knew they had to do something to tie up the unused plot thread and threw them into some random quest.

Euron is still falling really flat for me. I don't know why they'd transform this mysterious, sinister character from the books into a wisecracking thug who insists on telling everyone how untrustworthy he is. As always, nothing bothers me more than boring, half-baked political intrigue on a show that's supposed to be all about the fascinating nuances of political intrigue.

The only other thing that really bugged me was Sam's "Oh, look, Dragonstone is full of dragonglass!" revelation, which felt similarly half-baked. Having Sam admit that Stannis already told him about it doesn't redeem the fact that Stannis already told him about it, as a casual aside, so it's not like it's some big secret. And Dragonstone is a volcanic island, so Sam shouldn't need a top-secret book to realize that it's full of obsidian.

[larapu2000]

8 minutes ago, anamika said:

Sansa is pretending to be all-seeing. That's her problem. She keeps chastising Jon for every decision he makes, despite her being wrong about everything last season. 

Are you saying Jon made the wrong decisions this episode?

Also we got Jon saying how he learned from Ned and Sansa and Arya never got to do that because they were girls. The episode is making a point of saying that Jon knows better about certain things than her.

Maybe she can, oh I don't know, go and ask him? Hey Jon, what's on the table today? Oh you are planning on forgiving those children? I disagree!!

Again, why is the onus on Jon to go discuss with her?

What was she wrong about last season?  "Let's go take Winterfell!"  Great idea.  "Don't do what Ramsay wants."  Also a great idea.  "Let's ask the Vale for help so we have more men before attacking Winterfell!"  Again, also a great idea.   She predicted that Rickon would die because he was a legitimate Stark.  What was she wrong about?

[WatchrTina]

3 minutes ago, larapu2000 said:

Please please please make Sansa want to also train to fight and Lady Mormont gets to help

I just love the fact that Brienne has ended up in a place where her being a doughty fighter is finally looked upon with favor.  I would LOVE to see her giving some stabbing lessons to Lady Mormont.  But I'll be wildly surprised if Sansa agrees to be trained. I'll be pleased, but very surprised.

Edited July 17, 2017 by WatchrTina

[anamika]

Just now, ParadoxLost said:

I think that Jon has to be smarter than Ned and Robb is a fair point and that negates the idea that Sansa is lacking in not having those lessons..

On the other hand, I think having Sansa say she learned from Cersei in an episode where Cessei has is surrounded by enemies on all fronts with no allies points to Jon being right in this instance and Sansa wrong.

I tend to think Robb and Ned would have done what Sansa suggested without her having to prompt it.  I think that not blaming the children for the crimes of the parents is a Jon thing stemming from being a bastard.

How was Jon not as smart as Ned and Robb in this episode? That's the problem. As Jon says, Sansa talks a lot of horseshit. She randomly gives him advice that is the direct opposite of what he has done. Uniting the North and forgiving those have bend the knee is not what Ned and Robb would have done. That's Tywin's philosophy. So telling him that is meaningless.

This episode made a point of saying that Jon understands the North because of Ned (unlike Sansa ) and that Sansa herself was behaving like Cersei.

[betha]

36 minutes ago, stagmania said:

Is anyone else hung up on how much Euron looks like Evil Pacey?

OMG yes. Couldn't stop thinking that. He looks just like Joshua Jackson and the attitude was all Pacey. I don't mind.

[SeanC]

On another note, apparently Moat Cailin has ceased to exist again, since there's apparently nothing between the Starks and Cersei.  That fortress seems to fade in and out of existence between seasons.

[anamika]

4 minutes ago, larapu2000 said:

What was she wrong about last season?  "Let's go take Winterfell!"  Great idea.  "Don't do what Ramsay wants."  Also a great idea.  "Let's ask the Vale for help so we have more men before attacking Winterfell!"  Again, also a great idea.   She predicted that Rickon would die because he was a legitimate Stark.  What was she wrong about?

Lets see:

Lets go to the Karstarks for help!!!

The North will support us!!

Lord Glover, I demand you help because I am a Stark!

Jon don't fight with less men! But I am going to hide information about LF and the Vale army from you!

Jon don't listen to Davos! Or Tormund! Listen to meeee!

Yeah, she is totally the person that Jon should listen to. The North would not last a day.

Edited July 17, 2017 by anamika

[benteen]

Very good episode.  A set-up like most of the premiers but still very good with some excellent performances.

Arya wiping out the Freys is ludicrous but I'll take it.  It's another classic Westeros tale of revenge although Arya is in some very dark territory.  Very cool opportunity to get David Bradley back and I look forward to seeing him next as The First Doctor in the Doctor Who Christmas special.

Euron is a little Jack Sparrow looking in that new outfit but damn, I found his Jaime digs to be funny and I'm a Jaime fan.  The alliance with him makes sense though and the Iron Fleet was pretty damn impressive.

Ah, Sansa, you don't make the King look bad like that in open court.  For once, Jon comes off as strong as a leader and he was actually 100% right.  The North needs all the help that they can get and if the new Karstark and Umber (adorable kids btw) are willing to bend the knee, then you accept them back into the family.  It was actually what Tywin preached to Joffrey.  When your "enemies" bend the knee, you help them back up.  I think even Littlefinger respected that move by Jon.  More greatness from Lyanna Mormont and liked both Brienne and Davos's looks of pride.

Undermining him in front of his Lords and Ladies aside, Jon was too dismissive of Sansa who was offering him SOME good advice there.  Particularly in regards to Ned and Robb both making bad decisions.

LOL on Podrick being a lucky man.

REALLY could have done without that shit montage of Sam at the Citadel.  Still, Jim Broadbent was great (he always is) and even though a trailer spoiled it, Jorah's appearance there was a surprise.

Hooking back up the Hound with the Brotherhood has been a great decision on the show's part and Rory McCann has been killing it.  Strong acting from him and the scene where he looks into the flames was great.  And the burial scene too.

Dany is at Dragonstone!!!!!!  See, George...THIS is what I want in The Winds of Winter.  Not Dany dancing with Dothraki for over a thousand pages.

[Mya Stone]

2 minutes ago, anamika said:

This episode made a point of saying that Jon understands the North because of Ned (unlike Sansa ) and that Sansa herself was behaving like Cersei.

Juxtaposing the Sansa/Jon scene with the Cersei/Jaime scene definitely works to do this well. 

[WatchrTina]

Small nit -- I don't like Arya telling Lannister soldiers that she's going to kill the Queen.  It does not seem like a sneaky enough move for an assassin trained by the Faceless Men.  I presume the point of that was to show how everyone will underestimate Arya because she's a girl.  But still -- I didn't think it rang true.  Nor did their laughter in response.

[Macbeth]

38 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

did anyone else think a smart thing for Jon to do would've been to bethrothe eligiable heirs from the loyal houses to Karstark and Umber? That way the family keeps ancestral seats but loyal bannermen are rewarded. 

Given how close those castles are to the wall - not really something I would want to have.

[Shanna Marie]

30 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

I couldn't trust them.  This show has taught me not to trust soldiers.  I assumed they were planning a bit of rape.  Glad that didn't happen.

I was more concerned that Arya was going to slaughter them all. I was holding my breath through that scene, thinking, "Aw, they're just nice, ordinary guys drafted into service. Don't kill them, please!" On this show, they were too nice to live.

[benteen]

1 minute ago, WatchrTina said:

Small nit -- I don't like Arya telling Lannister soldiers that she's going to kill the Queen.  It does not seem like a sneaky enough move for an assassin trained by the Faceless Men.  I presume the point of that was to show how everyone will underestimate Arya because she's a girl.  But still -- I didn't think it rang true.  Nor did their laughter in response.

Yeah, in reality that would have gotten her killed.

[Skeeter22]

 Ned kept a child hostage and was prepared to murder him if his father stepped out of line. Stripping a family of their lands after an egregious betrayal isn't exactly the Reynes of Castamere. 

[ihartcoffee]

Sam is going to send Jon to Dragon stone, where Dany is! That's all I got from his scene's.  

 

Go Arya! Kill Cersi next! 

[mojoween]

I feel like the giant WAS Wun Wun because he had one regular eye and one arctic eye. In the Battle of the Bastards the kill shot was an arrow to the right eye.

It irritated me because how would he have ended up north of The Wall?  I'm pretty sure someone would have noticed a giant coming out of his grave and shambling up north.

[Cheshrkat]

I think the fact that Jon had just won back the Stark's 'ancestral home', which was stripped from them after Ned was declared a traitor, had a lot to do with not wanting to take that away from the young Umber and Karstark heirs.  He saw it happen to his family and did not want to do that to anyone else - I would have thought Sansa could relate to that.

[kittykat]

8 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

 

I tend to think Robb and Ned would have done what Sansa suggested without her having to prompt it.  I think that not blaming the children for the crimes of the parents is a Jon thing stemming from being a bastard.

It's also a parallel from last season with Dany and the Greyjoys when she said children shouldn't suffer from their fathers mistakes. 

Overall great start after so long a wait.  That cold open was everything.

I understand Sansa's warning about Cersei.  If they can get on the same page she and Jon could make a great team.  As she said Jon is the military guy let her figure out the political part of it.  She's also never seen the walkers and it's been shown that anyone who hasn't seen them are skeptical.  

I also liked Arya with the Lannister soldiers.  To her they're the wrong side but that doesn't mean they aren't good people.  We've seen bad Northern soldiers so it's nice to see the good from both sides which I think even threw her a bit.  But yeah when they first called her over I was all DON'T DO IT because the past has been unkind.  

[larapu2000]

2 minutes ago, anamika said:

Lets see:

Lets go to the Karstarks for help!!!

The North will support us!!

Lord Glover, I demand you help because I am a Stark!

Jon don't fight with less men! But I am going to hide information about LF and the Vale army from you!

Jon don't listen to Davos! Or Tormund! Listen to meeee!

Yeah, she is totally the person that Jon should listen to. The North would not last a day.

So any good idea she does have is negated by bad ones?  Jon should be batting -.400 then.

[ajsnaves]

My problem with Sansa was not that she disagreed with Jon.  One of the purposes of holding court like that is to get counsel from his lords and ladies.  He did that.  She gave her position, and the reasons why.  He made a decision.  And then she publicly disagreed with her King's decision and reasoning.  That should have waited until after.  Speak up, but once it's decided, hold your tongue until in private.

The only reason I can think for the Sam montage is to show the passage of time.  During that crap fest, months must have past.

Why exactly was Dragonstone undefended?

[WatchrTina]

12 minutes ago, SeanC said:

On another note, apparently Moat Cailin has ceased to exist again, since there's apparently nothing between the Starks and Cersei.  That fortress seems to fade in and out of existence between seasons.

That bothered me too but remember that Moat Cailin is only a defense against ground invasion and it looks like the danger from the south is going to come by sea this season.

Quote

Why exactly was Dragonstone undefended?

Because Stannis abandoned it when he took every man he could to the North to defend the Wall against the Wildling invasion.  Surely he left small folk, women, and children behind -- but it looks like they all ran off when they heard of Stannis' defeat by the Boltons.

Edited July 17, 2017 by WatchrTina

[mac123x]

2 minutes ago, kittykat said:

I understand Sansa's warning about Cersei.

I don't think they were communicating very well there.  Sansa said, "She won't stop until she murders you".  Jon pointed out that the Lannister army wouldn't come north during the winter.  He missed that Sansa said "murder" not "send her army".  Sansa knows Cercei, and knows what Cercei did to Ned and to King Robert.  Cercei is the kind of person who would send an assassin.

[anamika]

4 minutes ago, Mya Stone said:

Juxtaposing the Sansa/Jon scene with the Cersei/Jaime scene definitely works to do this well. 

Yes. Sansa was paranoid this episode, sort of like Cersei with her us vs them mentality.

4 minutes ago, Skeeter22 said:

 Ned kept a child hostage and was prepared to murder him if his father stepped out of line. Stripping a family of their lands after an egregious betrayal isn't exactly the Reynes of Castamere. 

Jon was doing something different to Ned. Funnily enough, he was following the philosophy of the person who orchestrated the Rains of Castamere

Quote

"Joffrey, when your enemies defy you, you must serve them steel and fire. When they go to their knees, however, you must help them back to their feet. Elsewise no man will ever bend the knee to you.

That's why Sansa asking him to not be like Ned, made no sense.

[CofCinci]

The Ed Shernan cameo was a low-point for the series. Which producer has a spoiled daughter that needed the pop star meet and greet?  When I read the spoiler, I was hoping that it was a lie or that he was just a quick cameo. I'm embarrassed for this series. Totally Fonzie vs. the Sharks moment.  

[SeanC]

Just now, CofCinci said:

The Ed Shernan cameo was a low-point for the series. Which producer has a spoiled daughter that needed the pop star meet and greet?  When I read the spoiler, I was hoping that it was a lie or that he was just a quick cameo. I'm embarrassed for this series. Totally Fonzie vs. the Sharks moment.  

According to the producers they did it for Maisie, because she loves Ed Sheeran.

The series finale will feature the Stark court being serenaded by the minstrels of DNCE.

Edited July 17, 2017 by SeanC

[Brn2bwild]

26 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

On rewatch, nice acknowledgement by Sansa that the dead Starks made stupid choices and that's why they're dead.

Still, Jaime?  So even the last dead kid and smoking hole where the sept was wasn't a deal breaker for you?  You're making it hard to remember how much I love your book counterpart.

Why are we now dependent on the Hound for flame vision?  That feels wildly off for him.

I weirdly enjoyed skeevy Euron and I normally detest the Ironborn.

I wonder how Sansa knew Ned and Robb made stupid mistakes, though.  Was the intel so good she knew Ned warned Cersei before they could all flee, or that Robb married a non-Frey for love and broke the alliance?

I liked this overall, but way too much time spent with Sam's Grossout Montage and the Brotherhood Without Banners.  At least there was no nudity.

Some spoilers proved to be incorrect -- there was no sneaking into Dragonstone and taking Stannis's remaining forces unawares.  I almost wish there were, because I find it unrealistic that Dany could just sail to Dragonstone and find it wide open and unoccupied despite Cersei knowing she was coming. 

[anamika]

2 minutes ago, CofCinci said:

The Ed Shernan cameo was a low-point for the series. Which producer has a spoiled daughter that needed the pop star meet and greet?  When I read the spoiler, I was hoping that it was a lie or that he was just a quick cameo. I'm embarrassed for this series. Totally Fonzie vs. the Sharks moment.  

But he really did not do much other than sing. I though Arya with the Lannister men was a nice moment. It humanized the Lannister soldiers and Arya herself was enjoying a nice, quite moment - missing home, sympathizing with the soldier etc. I liked it.

[JJ Hall]

So Euron's gone to pick up a gift for Cersei.  Hrm.

 

Tywin Lannister had three children:  Jaime the master swordsman,who no longer has a sword hand; Cersei the great beauty, who was shorn and stripped in full public view, shattering her old persona; and Tyrion the master wordsmith, known throughout the land for his wit.

 

It may soon be relevant that it was established in Euron's introductory scene that he's famed for cutting out people's tongues. . . .

[SeanC]

1 minute ago, Brn2bwild said:

I wonder how Sansa knew Ned and Robb made stupid mistakes, though.  Was the intel so good she knew Ned warned Cersei before they could all flee, or that Robb married a non-Frey for love and broke the alliance?

Robb's screwup is public knowledge (Glover talked about it to her face last year, for instance).

I don't know what she's referring to re: Ned.

[TaurusRose]

47 minutes ago, gbbarb said:

Sansa was told to speak up last season instead of talking to Jon privately.  She speaks up this season and is promptly told to shut up.  She can't win with GOT fans

She was told to speak up when opinions and strategies were being offered in a war council.  Disagreeing with the leader in the setting she chose was inappropriate and would have been insubordination if it had been any of the house heads/bannermen and women.  Dany would have done the same.  I don't disagree that Jon should consider her counsel, but that girl needs to  learn how to read the room.

[ajsnaves]

8 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

Because Stannis abandoned it when he took every man he could to the North to defend the Wall against the Wildling invasion.  Surely he left small folk, women, and children behind -- but it looks like they all ran off when they heard of Stannis' defeat by the Boltons.

That was months if not a year or more ago.  They knew she was coming. Dragonstone is not that far from King's Landing.  Euron would have had to pass it to get there.  She could have sent his fleet back to defend it.

[ParadoxLost]

The more I think about, Sansa's advice is completely not viable and worse the reasons he could give are not ones he can voice when publically challenged by her.

Who would Jon give the castles to?

Those from the North that joined him in the fight don't seem t o have the resources to handle infighting from the displaced houses and the WW threat.

Those that are "deserving" from the battle are probably LF/Vale and the Wildings.  Giving each a castle would go over fabulously :sarcasm;

Everyone else just got shamed into making him KITN.

This way the houses that are going t o encounter the WW first owe Jon something.

[gbbarb]

1 minute ago, taurusrose said:

She was told to speak up when opinions and strategies were being offered in a war council.  Disagreeing with the leader in the setting she chose was inappropriate and would have been insubordination if it had been any of the house heads/bannermen and women.  Dany would have done the same.  I don't disagree that Jon should consider her counsel, but that girl needs to  learn how to read the room.

Jon needs to learn to listen to her.  They BOTH need to do better in their communication.

[ParadoxLost]

6 minutes ago, Brn2bwild said:

I wonder how Sansa knew Ned and Robb made stupid mistakes, though.  

I just assumed that they were dead was enough.

[larapu2000]

3 minutes ago, taurusrose said:

She was told to speak up when opinions and strategies were being offered in a war council.  Disagreeing with the leader in the setting she chose was inappropriate and would have been insubordination if it had been any of the house heads/bannermen and women.  Dany would have done the same.  I don't disagree that Jon should consider her counsel, but that girl needs to  learn how to read the room.

But she didn't disagree with him, straight away, she suggested that the closest strongholds NOT be torn down, but given to other lords.  Then Jon shot her down.  Then she stood up for herself.

[screamin]

10 minutes ago, anamika said:

Yes. Sansa was paranoid this episode, sort of like Cersei with her us vs them mentality.

 

With Cersei's genuine talent for assasination, a modicum of paranoia toward her is healthy. Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you...and it's terribly unsafe to assume that  a viciously unbalanced opponent like Cersei - who STILL believes Sansa killed her favorite child - is just going to sit on her rump at KL with her hands folded till spring and let Jon fight the Night King undistracted. Sansa appreciates Cersei's threat in a way Jon does not.