Star Trek: The Next Generation - General Discussion

[John Potts]

On 10/7/2020 at 2:13 AM, schnauzergirl said:

The Kolvoord Starburst had been banned at Starfleet Academy for 100+ years, yet Nick Lucarno convinced Nova Squadron to perform it for Commencement.  Picard even talks about Nick graduating in a "blaze of glory."  Had they been successful, wouldn't there have been repercussions for doing a maneuver expressly forbidden?

That bothered Phil Farrand, Nitpicker No. 1 of the ST-TNG Nitpickers Guild too! Essentially, he came to the same conclusion: had it gone off smoothly, Not!Tom Parris expected he'd be let off with a slapped wrist.

[Quickbeam]

Even though I own all the episodes, I still like to random-watch whatever is on tv. This week I saw Inner Light and tonight, Suddenly Human. They are 2 of my favorites.

[Quickbeam]

Just FYI....since working from home, I’ve been watching the NG episodes on BBC America. Mostly in the background...but when I really paid attention I noticed how very chopped up they are. Key scenes missing from each episode. 
 

I’d recommend streaming them elsewhere if you are looking for episodes. 

[Maverick]

On 10/21/2020 at 4:28 PM, Quickbeam said:

Just FYI....since working from home, I’ve been watching the NG episodes on BBC America. Mostly in the background...but when I really paid attention I noticed how very chopped up they are. Key scenes missing from each episode. 
 

I’d recommend streaming them elsewhere if you are looking for episodes. 

 I saw a bit of Skin of Evil the other day.   They cut out all of Crusher's attempts to revive Tasha.  She just tells Picard the damage was too great and she couldn't save her.  It's a pretty important scene.   

[John Potts]

I was watching 11001001 and there's a scene where Riker is dancing with Minuet that is just hilarious, because Jonathan Frakes is 6'2" and has to lean really awkwardly in to whisper sweet nothings into her ear. Which makes no sense because Minuet is holographically generated and so should be the perfect height for him*. IRL, obviously that's because they didn't cast Carolyn McCormick (who's now in her 60s - boy does that make me feel old) for her height but there's no reason why the computer (or the Bynars) wouldn't.

* OK, if you have a dirty mind, you might imagine there's a reason Riker might want a short woman, but she's not half his height!

[schnauzergirl]

"Cause and Effect" is one of my favorites.  Am I the only one who speculates what happened to the crew of the Bozeman?  

[Maverick]

 If you're curious about Bateson's (non-canon) fate, there's a novel titled Ship of the Line that follows up on the Bozeman. 

[SVNBob]

On 12/1/2020 at 8:03 PM, Maverick said:

 If you're curious about Bateson's (non-canon) fate, there's a novel titled Ship of the Line that follows up on the Bozeman. 

I have a CD with the audiobook of that, that I'm not sure how I acquired (possibly as a freebie with one of the Alien Voices "Spock vs Q" titles).  The blurb on the envelope doesn't mention the Boezman, but I thought it was part of that story.  It's been a while since I've listened to it.  The blurbs mention that it takes place between Generations and First Contact, as it involves the newly constructed Enterprise-E.

There's another audiobook on that disc; "Crossover".  That's also a follow-up on a few episodes; Unification (I and II), Relics, and technically Encounter at Farpoint, as the three TOS Enterprise crew members that had appeared on TNG are part of the plot of that story.  And Frakes is the one that reads that one, so he gets to do his impressions of his castmates.  And you can hear the smile in his eyes as he does so.  And I believe that "Ship of the Line" is also a follow-up to this story as well.

[HunterHunted]

On 3/10/2020 at 2:40 PM, vibeology said:

The other issue is the writers in that episode used Troi as an exposition fairy and made her dumber than what reasonably made sense. The idea that Troi didn't know about the Emergency Bulkheads isolating the bridge? Total BS. Do they not do the 24th Century equivalent of fire drills on the Enterprise? She's been on the ship for years while Ro is maybe a month in. I cannot believe she wouldn't know that, except the writers need someone to ask and it can't be O'Brien so it's her. I'm fine with her not having warp engine expertise, but the writers did her character wrong for large parts of the episode.

I just happened to have seen Allegiance from season 3 on Pluto. One of the ways the crew was able to figure out that something was off with Picard in that episode was because the fake Picard had the crew run safety and security drills. It sounds like Picard treated those drills the same way he thought about his annual physical--something he avoided and had to be forced into doing.

[WinnieWinkle]

I just saw The Naked Now for the first time last night.  And may I just ask "what the hell was that???"  

[Maverick]

Wait until you get to Code of Honor. 

[Bort]

Heh, I love The Naked Now. It’s so weird.

[SVNBob]

7 hours ago, WinnieWinkle said:

I just saw The Naked Now for the first time last night.  And may I just ask "what the hell was that???"  

A call-back to a classic episode of TOS.  But done/aired way too soon in the run.

[Hiyo]

Quote

And may I just ask "what the hell was that???"  

You'll be asking yourself that for many a season 1 episode.

Edited March 27, 2021 by Hiyo

[SVNBob]

1 minute ago, Hiyo said:

You'll be asking yourself that for many a season 1 episode.

And several from season 2....

[Hiyo]

True, but at least in season 2 you'll be saying to yourself "Wow, that was actually quite good" a few times here and there. Season 1, not so much.

[Chaos Theory]

Just curious.  On the Arsenal Of Freedom Picard buys a war machine.  Is that something he puts on his expense report to Star Fleet?  

[Hiyo]

Yeah but he also needs Tactical to co-sign it.

[schnauzergirl]

5 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Just curious.  On the Arsenal Of Freedom Picard buys a war machine.  Is that something he puts on his expense report to Star Fleet?  

Or went to petty cash.

[Chaos Theory]

Dude.  I hate the episode Skin of Evil.   But is actually a very well done episode but fuck that.   Killing Tasha Yar ruined me.   She was actually my favorite character early on in the series.   I loved her Butchy attitude.  Plus having a female chief of security was really cool to a young me.    And getting killed for sport by a psychopathic oil spill….  I hate that oil spill.  

Also watched The Neutral Zone which was a fun “people from our time”  end up on the Enterprise during a really inconvenient moment.  Hi Romulans!!!!!    

I was working and kinda skipped Conspiracy and We’ll Always Have Paris.    I also kinda ignored the Symbiosis.  Although I always thought it was funny when the crew tries to explain drug addiction to Wesley Crusher.   

 

 

[Browncoat]

I did not like Tasha Yar.  

[Maverick]

 Symbiosis is just one long 80s "this is your brain on drugs" PSA masquerading as an episode of a TV show.  

 While her being killed was on the writers, Tasha's departure is because of Denise Crosby.   She wasn't happy with the development of her character and asked to be released from her contract.   The fact is though, most of the characters weren't well developed in the first season.  Had she stayed, I think both her character and her as an actress would have grown.   One of the criticisms of TNG was that both female characters were in "nurturing" roles and had Tasha stayed I think she would have received much more attention as the show went on because of her unique role.   Troi had already been left out of 4 or 5 first season episodes so over time I think Tasha would have been used more than her, maybe to the point the of them getting rid of Troi.   Which would be a shame, because while the Troi character had some issues, Marina really improved as an actress over the course of the series and I liked how she portrayed the character.    

 

[Lugal]

I remember Denise Crosby saying in an interview that if she had been given a few more little human scenes like she had at the beginning of Skin of Evil, she probably would have stayed.

And Symbiosis (alternate title, Just Say No) is the last episode she actually taped.  Near the end of the episode when Picard walks out of the cargo bay, you can see Tasha Yar in there waving, because that was her last scene.

[marinw]

Does anybody know if Stafleet Academy has more than one campus? Does every single cadet in the entire Federation end up in San Fransico? Seems very Earth Centric.

[SVNBob]

Per Memory Alpha, the main Academy campus was in San Francisco.  But there were various annex campuses and facilities on Earth and other planets, both in and outside the Sol system.

Notable examples: the flight training range is near Saturn, with Mimas one of the designated emergency evacuation centers.

There is also an entrance exam facility on Relva VII.  Wesley took one of his entrance exams here, as did Mordock, the Benzite Wesley befriended throughout the tests.

There's another campus on Psi Epsilon (or Upsilon, depending on which okudagram you read) III.  Daniel Kwan (who committed suicide in "Eye of the Beholder", kicking off the plot of that episode) apparently graduated from that campus.

And while it's not indicated, it's my headcanon that there are campuses on the homeworlds of most other Federation members, like Betazed and Trill.  But specifically not Vulcan; they have their Science Academy.

[Hiyo]

Doesn’t Trill have it’s own science academy, one that rivals the Vulcan Science Academy?

[schnauzergirl]

Boothby talked about the mess after San Francisco beat Minsk, which I assumed was another Starfleet Academy site.

[SVNBob]

16 hours ago, Hiyo said:

Doesn’t Trill have it’s own science academy, one that rivals the Vulcan Science Academy?

They do.  However, I can see Trill also having a small Starfleet Academy campus in their system, if not on the homeworld itself.  I can also see that the Starfleet campus would give credit to "transfer students" for classes taken at the Science Academy, much like colleges and universities do today.

But even though several Vulcans do join Starfleet and attend the Academy (one of the other contenders on Relva VII with Wesley and Mordock was a Vulcan), they would not have an Academy campus on Vulcan itself.  Whether because of an illogical "arrogance" about the superiority of the Science Academy, or because of the actual logic of having cadets living off-world and interacting with people of other species and other worlds to learn about their cultures as opposed to remaining relatively cloistered within Vulcan culture, even in a Starfleet setting.

 

[Hiyo]

I dunno, to me, having a Starfleet academy outpost on Vulcan (or not) makes about as much sense as having one on Trill (or not). Interestingly enough, as per the Memory Alpha page, it was never confirmed one way or another whether Trill was a member of the Federation/Starfleet.

[marinw]

So I just rewatched "Chain of Command, Part 2." I have always had very complicated feelings abut this epsisode I kind of like Jellico and Troi looks great in a normal uniform. I'm always happy to see Ronnie Cox and David Warner. Loved the scene where Riker stands up to Jellico while remaining seated. Cardassian postureing in always fun. But, the torture porn is...a lot. I say that as someone who loves 24.

IIRC this was a Very Special Episode that was making a big important statement: Torture is bad! Even so,the Maldred/Picard scenes feel voyeuristic and gross.

It also bugs that the Cardassians can get away with tortureing Federation People, even Starship captains, with no consequences whatsoever. The incident insn't even mentioned for the rest of the series,

Edited August 18, 2021 by marinw

[John Potts]

On 8/18/2021 at 12:09 AM, marinw said:

It also bugs that the Cardassians can get away with tortureing Federation People, even Starship captains, with no consequences whatsoever. The incident insn't even mentioned for the rest of the series

Except he wasn't acting as a Starfleet Captain. The Cardassians ask if he was on an official mission and Jellico flat out denies it (OK, they both knew it was a lie, but that's not the point). Officially, Starfleet was claiming they didn't send him, he was just on a private jaunt into Cardassian space, for reasons unknown to them.

IRL, it would be the difference between detaining a POW (covered by the Geneva Conventions) and capturing a spy (who aren't).

(Which works as a theory, but it is somewhat contradicted by DS9's Tribunal)

[Hiyo]

Quote

Even so,the Maldred/Picard scenes feel voyeuristic and gross.

I would say they were interesting and entertaining to watch.

[Fool to cry]

I always liked that Dr. Brahms switched her hair from Edwardian to 1940s:

[Hiyo]

Talk about peeking behind the curtain...

 

[Fool to cry]

Having 20+ episodes a season means the writers could one day go "What if we have Laxanna Troi be like "Auntie Mame" to Worfs son?

[JTMacc99]

So, Pluto TV is an app on my TiVo streamer hooked up to the TV in my bedroom. At the moment I have it tuned to the 24/7 Star Trek: The Next Generation channel.

That means I turn on the TV when I walk in the room, and some point of some episode is playing for the 5 -15 minutes I'm in that area, getting changed after work, folding laundry, and so on.

It's an interesting way to watch this show, given that I've seen every episode but haven't really revisited it in a long time. It creates new one-off observations that might just be a product of how I'm only catching snippets, or they may be something I just didn't notice/appreciate.

Two things that popped into my head so far:

1. Sometimes they're a little casual about casualties. At one point Geordi was walking with two other crew members looking for damage caused by the ship phasing in and out of existence (or whatever the problem ended up being) when he sent one of the other two down a different hall. She screamed, and the next we see of her is that she's dead, and that her torso is sticking out of the floor. Geordi and the other crew member's reaction: (No words, just facial expressions) "Wow. Interesting."
2. The Doctors, mostly Beverly, are frequently right in the middle of mayhem, if not the cause themselves of said mayhem. This is especially true when the mayhem is Picard centric.

[Hiyo]

 

[DisneyBoy]

Been revisiting Next Generation, just random episodes, and watched season 7's "Attached" and it makes me ask again...what was up with the refusal to give Picard and Crusher a real romance?? Did the actors object or dislike each other? Did they not want this Captain to get laid or something?

I really shipped them together back in the day...but it's as if they were set up to go nowhere. Maddening. Gates is gorgeous and the "my dead friend's widow" angle is a petty classic set-up for forbidden romance.

What's the story?

 

[Maverick]

 The writers didn't want the Captain saddled with an ongoing romance so that they had flexibility to write romance-of-the-week stories for him (and I think that was true of all the characters).   Many episodes focused on Picard having a relationship (Captain's Holiday, The Perfect Mate, Lessons) and they couldn't do those with Picard in a relationship with Crusher.  I think that's part of why they never put Janeway and Chakotay together despite a segment of the fans wanting that pairing.  

[KatWay]

1 hour ago, Maverick said:

 The writers didn't want the Captain saddled with an ongoing romance so that they had flexibility to write romance-of-the-week stories for him (and I think that was true of all the characters).   Many episodes focused on Picard having a relationship (Captain's Holiday, The Perfect Mate, Lessons) and they couldn't do those with Picard in a relationship with Crusher.  I think that's part of why they never put Janeway and Chakotay together despite a segment of the fans wanting that pairing.  

I don't think Picard had THAT many romances of the week, that was more Riker's territory and the reason why he and Troi didn't get together until the films. Plus they could have easily put him with Crusher in the last season, they almost went there and then didn't.

Same goes for Chakotay/Janeway.

I just think that the Star Trek writers always had a terrible track record with romantic storylines. Fans wanted Chakotay/Janeway, instead they got a last minute Chakotay/Seven storyline that came out of nowhere. Also people liked Riker/Troi, and they got Worf/Troi for no reason cause they then literally broke up off screen and were never spoken of again. So many bizarre choices.

I give credit to DS9 here in that Worf/Jadzia was an actually well-suited couple with a good build up and pay off and they built up Odo/Kira for a long time before they got together (not that they were that popular as a couple but at least it wasn't some weird out of left field swerve like suddenly having Kira date Bashir - I know the actors were involved but it would have made no sense for the characters - or Sisko).

[JTMacc99]

On 2/24/2022 at 3:44 AM, KatWay said:

I don't think Picard had THAT many romances of the week, that was more Riker's territory

Heh. Yes, with my new random moments of random episodes watching that I talked about above, another thing I find myself saying frequently to the TV is "OMG, Keep it in your pants Will."

 

[Bort]

My favorite rando hookup of Riker’s was Bebe Neuwirth and her “I’ve always wanted to make love to an alien” pickup line.

[schnauzergirl]

Today (March 23'22) is the 30th anniversary of the debut of my favorite STNG episode, "Cause and Effect."

[starri]

3 hours ago, schnauzergirl said:

Today (March 23'22) is the 30th anniversary of the debut of my favorite STNG episode, "Cause and Effect."

"At first, I thought the catwalk was spinning...."

[Hiyo]

 

[marinw]

I've seen that Video already @Hiyo Pure awesomeness.

[Hiyo]

These intake edited videos are awesome.

 

[Chaos Theory]

Rascals was on BBC today.  It was a stupid and silly episode but and enjoyable one.     You know the kind of episodes where the crew is inexplicably incompetent but then suddenly so are the fergengi who took over a galaxy class ship with only six people.  But I guess the point is watching the suddenly young bunch of crew members outwitting the witless fergengi which was fun.  And young Picard and Rijervabd the #1 dad was priceless.    Yes the O’Brien Keiko stuff was awkward and not in a good way.   And Ro and Guinan didn’t quite work.   I would have also liked Picard to acknowledge to Worf his helpful Alexander had been.   Any fun episodes even if it relies too much on random incompetence..   

[marina to]

On 2/24/2022 at 3:44 AM, KatWay said:

Also people liked Riker/Troi, and they got Worf/Troi for no reason cause they then literally broke up off screen and were never spoken of again. So many bizarre choices.

We got Worf/Troi because Rick Berman fell in love with the idea of it playing a "Beauty and the Beast". Can't remember where I read it but it said that the staff writers wanted to bring Imzadi home that final season but had to do this shit instead. And of course, it was so unpopular that Peter David had to write a sequel to his great Imzadi to try to make sense of this crap. Because a decision hadn't been made at that point, he had to end it with them still apart. I always thought it a shame he didn't get to write them getting together.

[PurpleTentacle]

I'm rewatching from the beginning. I'm towards the end of season 1 and man haven't they nailed down the prime directive yet. When in  later seasons any interference with species not sufficiently advanced is forbidden, like even showing yourself to them, here they interact with those species willy nilly and then draw some arbitrary lines of how they will fuck those species over this week, by refusing very specific things that could help them.

I actually like most episodes from season one fine. I was even surprised by how many. But still, I can't wait for this show to grow the beard.