Kingdom (US) - General Discussion

[BizBuzz]

Editor's Note:

Discuss Kingdom (US) here!

 

 

Quote

Alvey and Lisa are struggling to keep Navy Street afloat. Their best hope is Alvey's son Nate, an up and coming fighter. Jay, Alvey's other son, is on the outs with his father. When Lisa's ex and former MMA champ, Ryan, shows up, complications arise.

 

[BizBuzz]

What are the great quotes of Kingdom (US)?

[Eriu]

I've been pretty excited to watch this show since I first heard about it several months ago. It has MMA (which I've been into off and on for years) and Frank Grillo (who I'll watch in pretty much anything, including Purge: Anarchy in the theater).

The hottness of Mr. Punisher-Light aside, I was pretty pleased with how good this was. I was able to get a good sense of the plot and where it would most likely be going within the first episode. Money troubles, Nate's injury and Ryan's comeback are probably going to be the main things for this first season.

I also liked that of the main characters, none were all good or bad. Alvey is a great trainer, but seems to have a pretty screwed up past. Jay is a druggy, but really cares about his little brother. Ryan massively self destructed back in the day, but seems to be genuinely trying to work his way back.

I could stand to have more women in the show though, Lisa is fine (aside from the hideous shirts they are sticking her in), but the only other women right now is Jay and Nate's mom who at least is pretty much a non-entity, at this point.

When Alvey beat the shit out of the gang bangers in the very beginning, I figured it was just a way to quickly show how much of a bad-ass he is, but when they showed up again, I knew things weren't going to go well. I did not think that they were going put Nate in the hospital though.

On a final note, I thought it was pretty funny that were went straight for the modesty towel at the weigh in without going normal first. Apparently it was a good idea, though, as he came in right at the line.

[Infie]

I had no idea that this show even existed before I watched the premiere... and I only put it on because there was nothing else I was interested in seeing.  I'm so glad I did!!

 

Matt Lauria looks fantastic; Ryan seems to be a great character, too. 

 

I'm a little incoherent tonight, but suffice to say - I thought the initial episode was great and I'm really looking forward to seeing more.

[Infie]

I have the feeling that this show is going to be in the "angsty quotes" realm rather than the witty quotes one!

 

From the first ep:

 

Ryan: "My dad stepped in front of me.  You didn't do that, to me.  The first two years in prison, I tried to slit my wrists..."

Ryan: "Self-destruction is self-obsession."

[Eriu]

Lisa: "we are allergic to making money!"

[Eriu]

Lisa lays out the reality of their finances while Alvey tries to convince her his plan for Ryan is the solution. Ryan adjusts to life in a halfway house. Jay professes his desire to fight again, but Alvey refuses to help until he sees more dedication.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Eriu

[Eriu]

So, Alvey's got some serious issues going on. He's got problems with getting older, seeing his therapist and taking HGH. He also really sucks at running a business. He's straight out stated that he knows how financially insecure the gym is and yet he still would rather be the nice guy than actually take care of his business. He's the hard-ass when it comes to training but not with the money. If I were Lisa that shit would be driving me insane.

God poor Nate. It's great that he's not permanently injured, but still, six months before he can even start training again, which I would guess means 9 months to a year before he can fight again. And that's if all goes well. Just when things were looking up. I'm also worried about the history of addiction in his family and all the pain meds he probably has to take. Though the shot of him flushing them is a good sign.

I'm not sure what to think about the investor lady. Plunking down $20,000 in cash right at the table seems less "we want you to know that we are serious" and more "we're into some shady shit".

Not sure what's going on with Ryan, though. Did I read that scene right in that he stole his roommate's bear key chain? For what purpose?

[Infie]

"Let me dart you like the majestic white rhino that you are!"  -- Jay

[Infie]

Holy smoke, Nate looks beat all to hell.  I'm glad, too, that they haven't glossed over the kind of impact injuries like that can have on someone.  Six months!!

The therapy snippet was interesting.  Alvey actually seemed to be getting into something honest and then ... poof.  Time to go.  Seems like he takes that approach to the rest of his life too.  Fighting time, fighting bankruptcy.  He's an asshole to Jay though I imagine he figures it's tough love.  I think we're getting glimpses though, of why Nate would consistently choose living with his brother over living with his Dad. 

Ryan seems like a really decent guy, which makes everything that happened to put him in prison so terrible.  He sounds like a complete asshat before, even to himself.  I'll be interested in if we see the devil inside peeking out over time.  Huh - I think that might have been a glimpse... whatcha doing with the knife, Ryan?  And then, yeah, I think you called it right - Ryan stole his roomie's keychain.  I have NO idea why though.  O_o  Just to screw with roomie?  I have the feeling there's a longer play in action there.

 

Nate really does seem to be the most fundamentally good of the whole group, doesn't he?  At least they all love him for it.  The look on Jay's face as he sees the scar on Nate's head just broke my heart.  :(   Then he steals some of Nate's pain meds and I just want to punch him.  THEN he's all freaking thoughtful again, and this guy is so completely fucked up. 

 

Nate really hates being high, it seems.  Good on ya, Nate, for not wanting to be your brother or your Dad, but I think you're gonna be regretting flushing those pain meds.

 

*sigh* I have to admit I'm kind of sick of the dumb/uncaring/incompetent police trope - I could do without that part of the storyline, though I do think hunting down the jerks who hurt Nate is an important one.

I'm not sure what to think about the investor lady. Plunking down $20,000 in cash right at the table seems less "we want you to know that we are serious" and more "we're into some shady shit".

 

I know, right?  I'd mostly forgotten that, but that whole scene just screamed 'skeevy'.

[Eriu]

And then, yeah, I think you called it right - Ryan stole his roomie's keychain. I have NO idea why though. O_o Just to screw with roomie? I have the feeling there's a longer play in action there.

I could understand it if he was using it to get his roommate's loyalty. "Yeah man, I found out who took it and got it back for you", but he played it off like he just randomly found it, so the only thing I can think is that he was purposely trying to freak the guy out. I guess for shits and giggles?

[Eriu]

Media thread

Kingdom Renewed by Direct TV

Two episodes in and Kingdom has been renewed for an additional 20 episodes (so two more seasons?). Also, apparently its one of Direct TV's most popular series. I'm not sure what that's worth as Direct TV doesn't release it's numbers and doesn't have a lot of shows. They sure seem happy, though.

[Infie]

One recapper thought that Ryan was getting it back from some other person who'd hid it there, but it really didn't read that way to me at all.

 

On a purely shallow note, Matt Lauria looks fantastic.  Can't wait to see Ryan actually fight. 

[Infie]

Woot!  I'll admit I'm surprised, since it's not getting a lot of attention here. :)  I'm loving it though!

 

Here are two places hosting recaps:

http://tvrecaps.ew.com/recap/kingdom-season-1-episode-2/

 

http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/review-directvs-kingdom-takes-a-swing-at-mma-drama

[Woebegone]

The keychain thing seems to me that either New Ryan is an act and his "reformation" is just a long con back into Alvey and Lisa's lives, or may be a sign that Old Ryan is still very much a part of him and that he'll soon be falling back on his old habits. Or may be a combination of both? He actually does want to turn over a new leaf, but he's playing it up for sympathy?

 

Nate is still a mystery. It's possible that he honestly just doesn't remember what happened to him, but I think the more interesting scenario would be that he does remember, has an idea that it has something to do with his dad, and is keeping his mouth shut to protect him. He seems to be the keeper of the family secrets; remember when Alvey asked Mac to bring his goody bag to the gym once Lisa was out of earshot? Nate was right there and you know he heard, but of course he doesn't say anything. 

 

Then there's Alvey... I kind of got the impression that he might have a clue why Nate got beaten up. There's how he seems completely indifferent to whether or not the police catch the attackers. There's also how he does the fatherly thing and picks Nate up from the hospital, but then just drops him off at home and leaves, almost as if he doesn't want to be around him. Guilty conscience, maybe?

 

Jay is a mess, of course, but he's kind of honest about what he big mess he is. He wants to fight and I think Alvey is right that it has at least something to do with money (Nate's not earning while he's recovering), but I also think it might have something to do with channeling his frustration and anger. Jay's a fighter, but when his loved ones are hurt, there's no one for him to fight. That must be hard for him.

 

Lisa seems like a decent person, strong-willed and sure-minded, but the directness of her personality probably makes her the least interesting. Everybody else seems to have two or three conflicting motivations they're constantly juggling, but aside from being the in middle of Alvey and Ryan, there's not all that much going on.

[Eriu]

One recapper thought that Ryan was getting it back from some other person who'd hid it there, but it really didn't read that way to me at all.

Me neither. If that's what they were going for, they needed to add a scene of Ryan seeing someone hide the bear. As it was, it appeared that he knew where it was the whole time.

Jay is a mess, of course, but he's kind of honest about what he big mess he is.

Yet he still refuses to admit that it's his fault that he's not getting fights right now, not Alvey's. Being a great fighter isn't enough to cover for showing up for fights drunk or not showing up at all. Good thing for him that he's charismatic as all hell, or no one would be able to stand him. I'm seeing a lot of Dickey from "The Fighter" in him.

Everybody else seems to have two or three conflicting motivations they're constantly juggling, but aside from being the in middle of Alvey and Ryan, there's not all that much going on.

Yeah, I'm hoping that they've got more planned for her than "I'm stuck between two guys". Especially seeing as of right now, she's pretty much the only woman of any consequence on the show.

[Eriu]

He's still in incredible shape — all four male leads look like they haven't so much as looked at a carb, let alone eaten one, since the first Bush presidency

Hahahaha, that's a great line from the Hixfix review.

[Woebegone]

Yet he still refuses to admit that it's his fault that he's not getting fights right now, not Alvey's. Being a great fighter isn't enough to cover for showing up for fights drunk or not showing up at all. Good thing for him that he's charismatic as all hell, or no one would be able to stand him. I'm seeing a lot of Dickey from "The Fighter" in him.

I think he has some legitimate reasons to be pissed at Alvey (not booking fights is not one of them though), but he's not handling it constructively. Like what happened at the police station.

[Eriu]

I'm really liking the freindship that Jay and Lisa have. When he called her to bail him out, I was a bit confused, but after seeing them at the bar, it did make sense. They've probably known each other a long time and are around the same age. It will be interesting to see what happens if she can get him a fight.

On the other side of things for Jay, this whole mess with his mom is just not gonna end well. Pimp-Guy doesn't seem like a guy to mess with and Jay just wont be able to let it go.

I'm not so sure that Ryan teaching his roommate, who had some pretty serious issues (understandably, yikes) how to throw a punch is going to be the best idea. Yes, he needs to stand up for himself, but I think it may need something with more finesse than "hit really hard".

Both Alvey and Ryan were having issues with their worth as fighters. I get it, but it reminded me so much of a scene out of Tropic Thunder: "Wow! The insecurity level with you guys is ridiculous!"

[taragel]

This show is really impressing me. I find all of the leads to be quite good (even though Nick Jonas hasn't done much acting as of yet), but Jonathan Tucker especially is killing it. His scenes with his mom are all just so gutwrenching. I hope the s1 finale is not him killing Terry, because no, that's not going to end well.

 

Frank Grillo (who I used to watch on Guiding Light eons ago) and Matt Lauria are fantastic, too though. Matt's Ryan seems so easily like he could be a darker version of his Parenthood character which is kind of funny--right down to the name and everything (he was Ryan York on Parenthood). I hope we do get to see his paralyzed dad/parents in a future episode. 

 

And props to Kiele Sanchez, whose Lisa could've been so much less appealing in so many ways. She's doing a great job and the relationships she has with each of the men are interesting. I wish there were a few more female characters but I'm enjoying her and Joanna Going quite a bit.

Edited October 24, 2014 by taragel

[Eriu]

And props to Kiele Sanchez, whose Lisa could've been so much less appealing in so many ways. She's doing a great job and the relationships she has with each of the men are interesting. I wish there were a few more female characters but I'm enjoying her and Joanna Going quite a bit

The women do seem to be doing a good job with what they have, and in the few roles there are. It's not too surprising for a story about an MMA gym, but still. I'm hoping that Meaghan Rath (the physical therapist) sticks around for a while. I really liked her on Being Human and I'm glad to see her getting work.

[Infie]

Finally got to watch this week's episode, and I totally agree - it continues to impress.  The charisma of all of the characters singly and with each other is just unreal.

 

I really like Ryan, but he's confusing me.  I don't get last week's teddy bear theft, but I really appreciate how he is with his roommate.  The '...' look on his face after roomie told how his mom died was hilarious. 

 

The training part was great too - I'm glad that even though Ryan's kept himself in shape, he's lost most of his fighting technique is great and I think pretty true to life.  Awesome stuff.

 

Lisa getting drunk at the bar, and getting rid of her unwanted attention was my favourite part though.  I wasn't sure about whether or not I liked her to start because she seemed so unformed, but I like her more every episode.

 

Nate's list of injuries was hilarious.  The PT's reaction was priceless. 

[Woebegone]

I really like this show too. I think it just has some really good characters -- they're all very complicated and flaws, but still completely sympathetic. There's really not one that I don't root for in some way. I still worry that the female characters are getting short shrift though.

 

Take Christina, for example. It feels like she has no control over her destiny; it's turning into a fight between her son and her pimp, but she herself is just a bystander, watching from the sidelines. I would like her to be more like Lisa, who made it clear that Alvey didn't "steal" her from Ryan, like she was a possession being passed along. She chose Ryan back in the day and now she's choosing Alvey. She's the one making the call.

 

Did anyone notice that Jay was all, "I'd never let Ryan near you" to Lisa at the bar, but back in episode one, he was all, "Alvey stole Lisa from you" to Ryan? I guess it doesn't much matter to Jay as long as Alvey is the bad guy, eh?

 

This episode had a lot of people trying to help someone else less fortunate. We had Jay trying to help his mom; Alvey trying to help Ryan; and Ryan trying to help his roommate.

[Eriu]

Oh. My. God. Jay, you are a giant CHILD. You mean well, but holy shit, you have the impulse control of a 12 year old. When I watched the opening montage, I made a joke to my roommate about Jay planning some weirdo 9 to 5 scheme, and I was right. Even if she does make it through this, she will got right back to the drugs because she has to be the one who wants this, not you.

Lisa continues to impress. She gets Jay the fight, explains that this is the best that he's getting and calls the sponsor lady on her shit.

On a completely shallow note, hello Ryan's ass. I was pleasantly surprised that we got fully naked Ryan and kept the woman fully clothed. Also, way to check yourself out in the mirror. I see that giant ego isn't totally gone.

Judging from the previews, next week looks completely insane.

[taragel]

I like that, for as much of a sausage party as this show is, this is the second week in a row that Lisa got an awesome feminist/anti-sexism speech in a bar. <3

 

I was surprised Jay was able to get the upper hand in the fight with Terry and didn't end up getting shot or something. I hope that's the last we see of Terry. Joanna Going looks so young (she's 51) that sometimes it's hard to believe she could be Jay's mom. I hope they do a little more exploration of the relationship between her and Nate, too.

 

Ryan's just a time bomb at this point, eh? I really like the mix of repentance and old bravado that he's rediscovering and I hope it's a slow rollout with that and he doesn't become the destroyer again overnight.

 

[Eriu]

Glad that Alvey going after the gang bangers was just a dream. From the previews I was afraid that we were suddenly gonna get Sons of MMAnarchy, which would be a totally different show.

Well I knew it would only so long before Ryan flipped out. He had a pretty good reason for it, but shit man, not the way to handle things. Not surprising that Lisa knew how to get control of his shit quickly.

I knew something was gonna go badly wrong with Ryan's friendship with Keith. Especially when he didn't clarify that he didn't mean "take your dick out" literally.

My god, I'm really loving Lisa. Shitty dad, insano ex boyfriend, handling eeveryone's shit AND making sure Jay got paid. She can handle just about any situation ever. I want to be friends with her. Please don't ruin this by having her hook up with Ryan. PLEASE.

Speaking of Lisa's dad, going out to the strip club with your girlfriend's dad is just so many kinds of wrongness and will never end well.

[NorthstarATL]

My god, I'm really loving Lisa. Shitty dad, insano ex boyfriend, handling eeveryone's shit AND making sure Jay got paid. She can handle just about any situation ever. I want to be friends with her. Please don't ruin this by having her hook up with Ryan. PLEASE.

 

 Just had to agree with this! With the show being so testosterone heavy and the mother being SO very weak, I was afraid we'd see Lisa as the prize that Ryan and Alvey eventually wind up competing for, but Lisa is a compelling and complex character all on her own, and I like her a lot.

   I really want/wanted Alvey to get revenge, though. It's probably just personal, but I was attacked while jogging a couple of years back, and still haven't recovered fully, so Alvey's initial retaliation warmed my heart. That it resulted in Nate's beating infuriate me, and I need to see justice.

     The only weak link for me is Nate. It might just be that Nick Jonas is not a great actor, but I don't get his motivations. He has the same blank expression when he's doing anything, even when his mother is detoxing a few feet away or his love interest is (wisely) breaking things off with him. With Matt Lauria or Jonathan Tucker you can see the inner processes even if they are below the surface. With Jonas, it's as if there's nothing there at all.

[Eriu]

That it resulted in Nate's beating infuriate me, and I need to see justice.

Oh I totally understand that, shit who wouldn't? But when you go after dudes like that, you better kill them or they'll just come after you later. And then you'd have to hide the bodies, and blah, blah, blah. Which would take the show in a completely different direction, ha.

As for Jonas, I'm not sure if it's his acting or if his character just doesn't have much to do right now. Ryan and Jay are both fighting their way back and dealing with family stuff, while Nate has yet to get to the point where he can start coming back (which I'm betting will be a second season thing). That doesn't let the writers off the hook though, he's needs more to do than mope around and kill time before they decide its time for his story to start.

[NorthstarATL]

But that's just it. He has a ton of story right now and he's kind of sleepwalking through it! His brother is detoxing his mother behind a locked door in his house! Nate is healing, but has to be wondering whether he'll get back to "normal", yet the only thing we get from his rahabbing is that he's attracted to the PT. (I've been watching him do things, like dismount a bike, or just walking, and he shows no sign of injury; a first year acting student would MILK that!) I guess i'm just disappointed, and find myself wondering what a better actor would do with the part.

[taragel]

The actors (with the exception of Nick Jonas) really are killing it. I mean, Grillo, Tucker, Lauria and Sanchez are all doing amazing work here, and all of them are playing such differently drawn powderkegs--which is so compelling. That dream/monologue at the beginning was the highlight for me this week. 

 

I'm so, so happy Lisa is not a cliche. She could so easily have been, and she's actually just really awesome. I'm really pleased at the portrayals of all the (few) women we have -- they're just as fresh and complicated as the men, even down to the Megan Rath cameo as physical trainer girl. 

 

As for Jonas, I'm not sure if he's just a blank as an actor or they just haven't given him a direction yet. The person who mentioned he's not bubbling under the surface is right--but to be fair...I'm not sure what would be bubbling? The show hasn't etched out any goals/motivation for him than keeping his head down and fighting. Perhaps that's intentional.

 

Can't wait till Dad sees Mom next week!

 

 

 

 

[Eriu]

Well that was an ending. I knew things with Keith would go badly but holy shit, Keith stabbing the hell outa that asshole was not what I was expecting. I really can't imagine that the self defense story will hold up, even if the guy dies and can't give his side. I just can't see Keith being able to maintain the lie.

On a less terrifying note, we finally get a Frank Grillo sex scene, and it just has to be all awkward and lacking in ass. Booooooo.

Despite what she was claims, Christina was definitely gunning for some pain pills. It took me a while to realize what she was doing, but practically demanding pain pills is not just being overprotective. And really, it's not surprising, she didn't want to clean up, she was forced to.

No wonder Ryan's parents don't want to see him if he put his dad in a wheelchair. Though, I gotta say, it went way better than it had any right to. And Ryan's mom? The only place Lisa and Ryan would be if they had gotten married, is currently divorced. It wouldn't have "saved" Ryan and placing even a little bit of guilt on Lisa, intentionally or not, is not OK.

[NorthstarATL]

Well that was an ending. I knew things with Keith would go badly but holy shit, Keith stabbing the hell outa that asshole was not what I was expecting. I really can't imagine that the self defense story will hold up, even if the guy dies and can't give his side. I just can't see Keith being able to maintain the lie.

On a less terrifying note, we finally get a Frank Grillo sex scene, and it just has to be all awkward and lacking in ass. Booooooo.

Despite what she was claims, Christina was definitely gunning for some pain pills. It took me a while to realize what she was doing, but practically demanding pain pills is not just being overprotective. And really, it's not surprising, she didn't want to clean up, she was forced to.

No wonder Ryan's parents don't want to see him if he put his dad in a wheelchair. Though, I gotta say, it went way better than it had any right to. And Ryan's mom? The only place Lisa and Ryan would be if they had gotten married, is currently divorced. It wouldn't have "saved" Ryan and placing even a little bit of guilt on Lisa, intentionally or not, is not OK.

I think I actually jumped when the attack happened! It had been such a non-action episode, relying heavily upon emotion, and I was kind of whincing thinking that Ryan would be pissed off that Keith had shared information that he had no business sharing, so what ACTUALLY occurred floored me! Then even though I knew what Ryan was doing, it was difficult to watch!

    ITA about Christina and the pain pills! I had a "friend" pull that with a clinic visit I made last year. As a recovering addict, I didn't want any pain killers, but she was trying to get some for me in the same manner as Christina, all concerned and everything!

     Now I want to know what really happened to the family! That was some manipulative BS Jay pulled there with Alvey, and I can't blame him for leaving, but relationships are rarely black and white like that. I may have given Nick Jonas a hard time thus far, but he played uncomfortable this episode perfectly.

    Still liking Lisa quite a bit. I love that her reaction to Christina's return was "what does she want?", which indicates quite a bit already, and that she didn't take the bait with Alvey or Ryan showing jealousy, or Ryan's mother guilting her.

[Eriu]

I think I actually jumped when the attack happened!

I defintly had a "hands over the mouth, oh my god!" reaction.

[ribboninthesky1]

I've just watched the first 3 episodes.  I don't completely get Lisa. She's buddies with Jay, who seems to be a more charismatic, slightly less destructive version of Ryan.  She's fine with him coming into the gym, fine with him fighting, etc.  But Jay seems as self-destructive and entitled as Ryan was. Primary difference is that he hasn't ended up in prison.  Perhaps the only thing keeping him from laying Alvey out is the latter is an experienced fighter and sober.  I'm not sure it's intentional, but her insistence on Ryan not being around seems more like fear of latent feelings than genuine distrust.  Especially when she was all, "He  apologized, he has no one, no family, I feel sorry for him" to her husband.  I mostly understand her concerns, but going off to get sloppy drunk because she couldn't deal with Frank and Ryan training together for two hours seems a bit much.      

 

Maybe future episodes will delve more into Lisa's background, but for all of her "I take no shit, I won't even acknowledge your presence if I don't like you" attitude, she has certainly made it a point to surround herself with some fucked up dudes.  Not sure if it's the writing or actress, but she comes off self-righteous, and it bugs me.  That's often an issue with characters who are supposed to be the moral compass in the midst of some grey characters, and I'm seeing it here as well.  I think it's important to establish a balance between being centered/self-possessed and coming off superior.  I do like the relationship between Alvey and Lisa - the actors play against each other well.      

 

Whoever thought to cast Jonathan Tucker and Frank Grillo as related is genius.  Tucker is fantastic. Jay is definitely his father's son.  As a side note, it's hilarious to me that Jay is wild and free with the booze and drugs, hasn't fought in a year, clearly doesn't train, but is still sporting 12-pack abs and guns for biceps.    

 

In general, the actors are elevating the material - something about the writing seems off. Or maybe it's the editing.   I'm not that impressed with Matt Lauria yet.  I'll see what the other episodes bring.

[Eriu]

I don't completely get Lisa. She's buddies with Jay, who seems to be a more charismatic, slightly less destructive version of Ryan. She's fine with him coming into the gym, fine with him fighting, etc. But Jay seems as self-destructive and entitled as Ryan was. Primary difference is that he hasn't ended up in prison.

I think the real difference is that Jay is just her freind. She loved Ryan and was going to marry him and then he went and fucked everythig up. Jay's just her freind and her boyfreind's son, he may be a fuck up, but as far as we know, he's never done anything bad directly to her. Sometimes it can be harder to forgive someone you love than someone you are just freinds with.

[ribboninthesky1]

I've not watched beyond episode 3, but I thought Ryan physically assaulted his father, which presumably had nothing to do with Lisa.  According to Ryan, she was there when it happened, but I've not seen or heard anything to indicate he did something to her.  Granted, that would be more than enough to put me off of a relationship as well, so I have no problems believing that was the nail in the coffin of their relationship.

 

But Jay has very similar issues, so it strikes me more than a little hypocritical for her to be so against Ryan coming back to the gym for training and fighting vs Jay.  As far as I know, Ryan didn't have the unreliable reputation that Jay has, which seems to be source of Alvey's obstinance.  Also, given how the gym is hanging on by a thread, their resistance to investors, Alvey's sabotage of the business by playing the nice guy and not enforcing contracts, and Nate being out of commission for a long time, Ryan seems to be the best immediate opportunity for income. I know next to nothing of MMA, but I can imagine the guys that come through aren't exactly emotionally stable.  So her reluctance is more personal, which is fine.  But Alvey is the same way about Jay, yet she doesn't seem to get that. 

[ribboninthesky1]

If Lisa and Ryan don't hook up again, I'll be pleasantly surprised.  It's no accident that her relationship with Alvey seems to be struggling a bit while she and Ryan seem to be making amends.  I agree that Ryan's mom should lay off the guilt trip. 

 

I don't see Christina as weak, just sad.  Seems like Alvey more or less abandoned her, perhaps long before her drug issues, which is why I assumed Lisa's dad throwing that in his face didn't sit well.  She's the other female character on the show, but we've not seen much of her before this episode. Joanna Going is doing well with what she has - I saw a spark of inner strength, though I doubt it will last. 

 

I think the actor playing Keith is doing a fantastic job.  Keith has major personality/behavioral/boundary issues, along with r******* emotional development (he's stuck at 10 in most ways).  I'm surprised it took this long for him to lose it with Michael.   

 

Not that impressed with Nick Jonas, but Nate is supposed to be the emotionally closed off Kulina, so maybe the blank slate stuff is intentional.  I keep hearing how sweet he is, and I feel like it's more telling than showing.  Compared to the other men, he's not self-destructive.  But that's kind of a low bar, in terms of expectations.

 

I've been trying to figure out where I knew the male PT from. And it hit me - Queer Eye for the Straight Guy! Totally random to see him on this show.

[taragel]

Really digging this show and its multitude of ticking time bombs. So glad it's already renewed for a bazillion more episodes. 

 

Lisa and Ryan getting back together seems inevitable now (and probably sooner than I expected originally). 

 

Jay's heart's gonna be broken by his mom. Sigh.

 

And oh dear, that final scene. Ryan didn't put Michael's fingerprints on that knife and he hadn't gotten his gloves on yet! That smells trouble to me!

[Eriu]

And oh dear, that final scene. Ryan didn't put Michael's fingerprints on that knife and he hadn't gotten his gloves on yet! That smells trouble to me!

 

 

Not only that, but there's no way that Keith is going to be able to maintain the lie. It'd be like asking a 10 year old to maintain a huge and stressful lie. Convincingly. I don't see anything but badness coming out of this.

[Eriu]

Alvey, what are you doing? I don't care if Ryan has the "beast" back or whatever. That was a spectacular break down/freak out and at this point I don't think Ryan can have the aggression without the ego. No amount of money he can make for you is going to be worth this. It will end badly.

I've been typing that for this show way too often.

What's going on with Nate? He's either totally flat or hulking out, which I could see if he were on something, but that doesn't seem to be the case. And what was with the old "friend" while they were out shopping? They seemed to be implying that Nate was somewhat experimental back in his younger days, but that was really out of nowhere.

Alvey and Christina still being married is yet another big mess to be dealt with. They keep saying that she would get half, but doesn't Lisa own a part of the gym? For her sake I sure hope she hasn't thrown a ton on money into something that she doesn't legally own.

Everything is just a giant pile of crap.

[Eriu]

A particularly good one from last night, that the Entertainment Weekly recap remindeed me of:

"With me it's not so much the wine as it is the heroine." -Christina

I literally laughed out loud.

[joelene]

I think the Nate situation makes sense and it's been building for a while (if they're going gay/bi). Then again I was kind of ready for it 'cuz I saw an interview with Jonas where he said his character would struggle with his sexuality, or something, but I wasn't sure if he was queer baiting or not. Anyway, him being so closed off, his rage issues (though they all have that issue, obviously), not having ladies around and when he finally does he dumps her after one shag. And then the gay hipster dude shows up, so, yeah. Looks like his mother got it straight away.

Edited November 21, 2014 by joelene

[Eriu]

Then again I was kind of ready for it 'cuz I saw an interview with Jonas where he said his character would struggle with his sexuality, or something, but I wasn't sure if he was queer baiting or not.

That is true, he's certainly been courting his gay fans lately. It will be interesting to see where they go with it, exploring the issues of a gay/bi MMA fighter could be very interesting.

[NorthstarATL]

So THAT'S why Jonas has been doing all the gay media lately! I thought HE (the actor) was coming out, but that's some dedication the character and to publicity right there! I had almost forgotten the female PT!

  Speaking of gay, Matt Lauria's after hours training session was incredibly hot at first, until it went south. Between his physical trashing of the place and Christina's assessing earlier on I think Lisa and Alvey might have to take on those backers at some point just to keep afloat. Ryan is really an interesting character. He and Nate are really similar I think, just everything waiting to explode all the time. With Nate, it's probably partly sexuality. With Ryan it's definitely rage issues. Everything he does has an ulterior motive. Just like Christina. Maybe that's why I like Lisa so much. She doesn't hold anything back, and lets you know exactly what she's thinking.

  Once again, a scary scene to end the episode! I was worried as to what Jay would find, but I kind of felt that Christina and Nate, having just begun being fleshed out, were more or less safe.

Edited November 22, 2014 by NorthstarATL

[Eriu]

Once again, a scary scene to end the episode! I was worried as to what Jay would find, but I kind of felt that Christina and Nate, having just begun being fleshed out, were more or less safe.

Yeah, I was surprised that it appears to have just be intimidation and not more physical violence. Kinda makes me wonder if these guys are as hardcore as they think they are.

[NorthstarATL]

Yeah, I was surprised that it appears to have just be intimidation and not more physical violence. Kinda makes me wonder if these guys are as hardcore as they think they are.

I went back and watched that last scene to see what I might have missed, and there's no real clue as to what went on in the house. I hope we get an answer next week. The gang thing is really the weakest of the storylines for me. It served its purpose and can be done now.

[Eriu]

Lisa seems to be handling the destruction of the gym rather well...or not. She's got some serious self restraint however. If that was my gym he fucked up, I'd have a hard time not going after him myself. I'm sorry but, being drunk doesn't make you do things, it just makes it easier to do the things you really want to do.

That scene with Jay trying to get the gangster's address shows what a charismatic bullshitter he is.

I can't say I'm surprised that nothing is in Lisa's name. It's very stupid, oh so very understandable. You get involved with someone, move in with them, your finances are intwined but nothing is legally yours. Lisa needs to sell that ring and take care of herself.

The dueling Lisa/Ryan and Alvey/Christina scenes were so very tense and stressful. I just waiting for something bad to happen. When Lisa waked away from Ryan, I was hoping that was going to be it, but of coarse not. Alvey, you are such an asshole.

I gotta say that drunk Christina has some serious boundary issues, but some surprisingly good advice.

[MorbidPet]

I'm not a big fan of Alvey right now. But the show is great and it's just so nice knowing there will be not one but two more seasons to come. Makes it sorta okay to get invested in the show.

So now that Alvey f*cked up I won't be so hard on whatever it is going on between Lisa/Ryan. I have to say I kinda liked seeing Ryan go mental on the club, somewhat liberating to see someone actually go full out, but no it's not very constructive but then again it doesn't seem to be a trait either character possess on this show. 

And I'm curious to where they are going with Nate and this bi/gay storyline.

[Eriu]

And I'm curious to where they are going with Nate and this bi/gay storyline.

I'm curious about this as well. It seemed to come kinda out of nowhere last episode, but Nate definitly didn't seem overly excited to be having sex with whats-her-face this episode either. More like this was something he thought he should be doing, but not something that he really wanted to be doing. Maybe they are just laying the seeds for a major storyline in season 2?

[joelene]

I think Nate set it up to show his mother just as she creepily told what's-her-face. I'm thinking he's gay rather than bi. If he was bi he would still enjoy himself with women and not have to take a shot for strength just before consummation.