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maraleia

When Calls The Heart

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Watching some old episodes on Netflix --

I have long since accepted this show's many historical inaccuracies, at least in terms of things like hairstyle and clothing, as I've read articles that state the difficulties involved in being more accurate. Ok, fine. But does the show not have interns with access to Google? It shouldn't be so difficult for TPTB to realize things like, no, Julie wouldn't be in trouble for driving without a license, because cars were still so new in 1911 that driver's licenses weren't actually a thing yet. 

Google is your friend, show.

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I don't know why Google News felt the need to tell me this (I'm guessing because I've commented here and cookies are a thing), but it looks like filming the next season is starting soon.

This show is never going to end, I'm convinced.  As long as Erin Krakow sticks with it, it's going to continue.  Place your bets on how other main characters will join Jack in meeting their own untimely and somewhat bizarre offscreen ends when the actors decide to leave.  I'm going with, Nathan will get stung by a bunch of bees a la Macauley Culkin in "My Girl," Rosemary will adopt a baby, experience two seconds of happiness, and then fall off a horse, leaving Lee to be a single Dad, and Little Jack will turn into Michael Myers and stab Allie.

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Is it bad that I feel a tiny zing of glee every time I think of the WCTH uber "Halmark" fandom's reaction to DL's gay actor character on the Rookie?  I feel like a bad person, but then again, hehehehe.  He could not have picked a more opposite character and audience.

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On 7/11/2020 at 10:50 AM, dubstepford wife said:

Little Jack will turn into Michael Myers and stab Allie.

I’m kinda thinking maybe Elizabeth will finally snap when Allie comes whinging to her yet again about yet another g-d “Uncle Nathan doesn’t understand me” complaint and stab her herself. This will result in a grateful town not only not prosecuting her, but making her their Supreme Empress.

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On 8/18/2020 at 1:03 PM, ouinason said:

Is it bad that I feel a tiny zing of glee every time I think of the WCTH uber "Halmark" fandom's reaction to DL's gay actor character on the Rookie?  I feel like a bad person, but then again, hehehehe.  He could not have picked a more opposite character and audience.

My main question has long been why did DL leave a show that literally centered on him, in order to join a show where he's just an occasionally recurring character. Did he hate WCTH that much?

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5 hours ago, SnarkySheep said:

My main question has long been why did DL leave a show that literally centered on him, in order to join a show where he's just an occasionally recurring character. Did he hate WCTH that much?

We'll never know for sure but I'm guessing it was a death of a 1000 cuts.  WCtH had probably gotten very boring/monotonous for him, especially considering it had become the Abigail show.  I can't imagine he enjoyed doing paint-by-numbers Christmas movies, and stuff like "Christmas Cookie Matchup" honestly seems very cringey and humiliating.  And the Bill Abbott regime of zero diversity and kowtowing to the One Million Moms might have bothered him.

I haven't seen The Rookie so I can't comment on his character there but if it's a gay actor then at least it's something different and a little more challenging.  And he's only a recurring character on a moderately successful show now but this way he's much freer to go to auditions, or maybe write or try his hand at directing, or do theater.  Actors are artists, they want to do things that feel creative.

It's just a shame that his character had to be killed off.  If he only wanted to appear occasionally then I get why they did -- a Hallmark show can't *not* focus on romance (because that's all that matters in women's lives, right?) -- but still, it's sad.  I've long maintained that the correct thing to do was end the show and just focus on the spinoff.

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On 6/3/2019 at 10:58 PM, dubstepford wife said:

Hey-yo, I'm a noob who just marathoned this show over a sick weekend.  I haven't seen Season 6 yet since I'm a Netflixer and it's not on Netflix yet, but I read episode summaries and...I'm holding out hope that with Lori's departure it means Jack will come back, at least when the series wraps up.  Yes Dan wanted to move on, but coming back for the final season would mean a really nice fat paycheck without any long-term commitment since you know this is it, and you make the fans love you by giving them the ultimate happy ending.  Make it a Christmas special, Elizabeth and Jack's happy conclusion on Christmas, that seems very Hallmark-y.  And Lori's gone, so that's something, if the rumors were true about him being unhappy with it becoming the Abigail show.  It seems like a win-win for him and for the show.  And I know the topic has been discussed to death but it kinda sorta maybe makes sense?  Especially if Season 7 is the last season (and it kind of sounds like they're running out of material anyway), they could totally have maybe Elizabeth and Lucas get together, have a romance, maybe get engaged, and then...Bill gets a telegram about a guy in the mountains who had amnesia for the past year-ish and rushes off to find him.  Of course it's soapy but...this show is kind of a soap opera after all.

Also, having marathoned everything all at once, there were an awful lot of hints during Jack's denouement that left the door open.  When he and Jesse started building the house Jesse was all "I can't imagine you two not together" and talked about his own breakup, and Jack's response was "If you're meant to be together, you'll find your way back to each other."  I'm probably reading too much into it but that seems like a hint.  And speaking of the house, that was just plain cruel to the audience, for them to show how excited Jack was to build the house and start a family.  He was so happy and then boom, he's dead.  Oh and by the way he also has a son now when for the past like, two seasons all he wanted was kids with Elizabeth and now he doesn't even get to know his son exists?  It seems way too tragic for that to be his ending, particularly on a channel that doesn't really do tragedy.  And finally, no body.  Yeah we see a coffin and a grave, but he's killed in a rockslide.  In the pre-DNA days I can easily see that explained away as the body being unrecognizable after getting crushed, and they thought it was him because of the ID tag but tags got mixed up somehow, and the guy they thought was some other guy doesn't have any family so no one actually identified him.  I know it's dumb, but again, soaps do this kind of thing and worse all the time.  Yes, yes, I know it's not a true soap, but...c'mon guys, it kinda is.

Also also, I could even see the dog kind of being symbolic.  I know the dog "actor" died, hence why Rip hasn't been seen, but there are other basset hounds in the world, and the storyline of Rip Van Winkle fits perfectly with the soapy amnesia plot.  Jack was "asleep" for two-ish years, then wakes up to find Elizabeth involved with another guy, and drama ensues.  

I don't know if I consider myself a watcher at this point, I don't think I'll watch without J&E, I'll just end my flu weekend with assuming the wedding episode was it, but if they can entice Daniel back to fill the Lori Loughlin void (and from what I gather from this forum she had kind of taken over the show so that'll be a massive void) for a season or even just part of a season, I'll tune in.  Could be fun to watch him square off with hot saloon guy.  Other mountie guy doesn't stand a chance...it would make no sense for Elizabeth to get together with a mountie after she spent years worrying about her mountie beau/husband and then finally having those fears come true.

Anywho, sorry for the long post.  I had five years of Heart to post about. 🙂

Im a total newbie here and very, VERY late to the party. For want of something to watch during lockdown here in the UK I finally watched WCTH (not my type of show usually).

I was totally drawn in to J&E story (although to be fair it went on a ridiculously long time, if Charles hadnt proposed it would have been a much quicker wedding so we can blame him) and thats the reason I watched. We only have up to the end of series 5 on Netflix here in the UK and thankfully I was tipped off that Jack died so their story ended at the wedding and they're now living happily ever after in my tiny mind. I thought it was a totally dreadful way to end a relationship we had watched develop for five seasons - very bizarre. I'd even go so far as to say I was angry and totally let down and cheated by the whole thing. To the point that even if I could, I would not watch any further series. I have seen a few clips on YouTube but Im just not buying into any of it. Been there and done that with Elizabeths story. Unless they bring Jack back (in whatever guise ie recasting or Lissing), then I might come round knowing that what they were selling us wasnt complete lies. It can be done, this is Hallmark.

I totally agree with your theory/suggestions, and even if Lissing doesnt want to come back it could be played by another actor.

It is totally ridiculous to find after they courted for 5 seasons and pledged from 'chalkdust to eternity' that she would be out on the hunt for a new man in her life, I just dont buy it at all. It cheapens the 'great love' they spent five years selling us. So, bring Jack back (even if its not Lissing).

First time ever commenting on any tv series - I was just so damned angry about the way it ended I had to vent. Apologies for rambling. x

Edited by UK Lady
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On 10/7/2020 at 7:05 AM, UK Lady said:

Im a total newbie here and very, VERY late to the party. For want of something to watch during lockdown here in the UK I finally watched WCTH (not my type of show usually).

I was totally drawn in to J&E story (although to be fair it went on a ridiculously long time, if Charles hadnt proposed it would have been a much quicker wedding so we can blame him) and thats the reason I watched. We only have up to the end of series 5 on Netflix here in the UK and thankfully I was tipped off that Jack died so their story ended at the wedding and they're now living happily ever after in my tiny mind. I thought it was a totally dreadful way to end a relationship we had watched develop for five seasons - very bizarre. I'd even go so far as to say I was angry and totally let down and cheated by the whole thing. To the point that even if I could, I would not watch any further series. I have seen a few clips on YouTube but Im just not buying into any of it. Been there and done that with Elizabeths story. Unless they bring Jack back (in whatever guise ie recasting or Lissing), then I might come round knowing that what they were selling us wasnt complete lies. It can be done, this is Hallmark.

I totally agree with your theory/suggestions, and even if Lissing doesnt want to come back it could be played by another actor.

It is totally ridiculous to find after they courted for 5 seasons and pledged from 'chalkdust to eternity' that she would be out on the hunt for a new man in her life, I just dont buy it at all. It cheapens the 'great love' they spent five years selling us. So, bring Jack back (even if its not Lissing).

First time ever commenting on any tv series - I was just so damned angry about the way it ended I had to vent. Apologies for rambling. x

I might be hallucinating this, but in Elizabeth's home, on a table near the front door, isn't there a photo of Jack? Thus, if Dan Lissing allows them to still use his photo on the show, I don't think he's totally soured on WCTH. [NOTE: this isn't me speculating about him returning or not. It's more about the way contracts are structured.]  In contrast, when Shannen Doherty left the show Charmed she made it explicit that the show could not use her image in any way - period. (I think they would have had to pay her to use her image.)  Anyway, just throwing this out there...

 

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Yeah I mean, he was the male lead for five seasons (well, five technically, three where he actually did anything), and he's the father of Little Jack, so as much as I'm sure Hallmark wishes they could they can't just make him disappear.  He's definitely not coming back though, certainly not to the show (unless there's a flashback or they do the soap trope where Elizabeth has a near death experience or something), and I don't think to the channel either.  They've released the Christmas movie lineup and this is what, two?  Three years running now?  Where Lissing isn't in any of the movies.  Whether that's his choice or he's been blacklisted, who knows.

Anyway -- I've started watching Dr Quinn, Medicine Woman on Amazon and it's like WCTH (including very questionable historical accuracy) but better.  It's an old show and it shows its age at times -- the male lead is right off of a romance novel cover circa the early 90s -- but it's got decent acting and storylines.  If you like the pioneer aspects of WCTH but are getting sick of flipping the table at Hallmark's stupidity, I recommend it.

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On 10/8/2020 at 5:59 PM, norcalgal said:

I might be hallucinating this, but in Elizabeth's home, on a table near the front door, isn't there a photo of Jack? Thus, if Dan Lissing allows them to still use his photo on the show, I don't think he's totally soured on WCTH. [NOTE: this isn't me speculating about him returning or not. It's more about the way contracts are structured.]  In contrast, when Shannen Doherty left the show Charmed she made it explicit that the show could not use her image in any way - period. (I think they would have had to pay her to use her image.)  Anyway, just throwing this out there...

 

Good point. I havent watched it since the wedding episode so I'm really not sure but would be interested to hear what anyone else reads into this.

Its not that Im even a 'fan' of Lissing in particular - maybe its this damned covid where everything is doom and gloom and Im just wanting a happy ending and by that I dont mean Elizabeth waltzing off into the sunset with a bar owner or another mountie. Too much sadness in the world right now.

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On 10/10/2020 at 8:34 PM, dubstepford wife said:

Yeah I mean, he was the male lead for five seasons (well, five technically, three where he actually did anything), and he's the father of Little Jack, so as much as I'm sure Hallmark wishes they could they can't just make him disappear.  He's definitely not coming back though, certainly not to the show (unless there's a flashback or they do the soap trope where Elizabeth has a near death experience or something), and I don't think to the channel either.  They've released the Christmas movie lineup and this is what, two?  Three years running now?  Where Lissing isn't in any of the movies.  Whether that's his choice or he's been blacklisted, who knows.

Anyway -- I've started watching Dr Quinn, Medicine Woman on Amazon and it's like WCTH (including very questionable historical accuracy) but better.  It's an old show and it shows its age at times -- the male lead is right off of a romance novel cover circa the early 90s -- but it's got decent acting and storylines.  If you like the pioneer aspects of WCTH but are getting sick of flipping the table at Hallmark's stupidity, I recommend it.

 

I remember watching Dr Quinn years ago - I actually might give it another go. Im running out of stuff to watch!

I remember reading somewhere that LL (or it could have been someone else) saying that there were lots of relationships developing on the show and that J&E were not the main ones. Rubbish! If thats the case why are they so anxious that Elizabeth should now have two suitors and once again we are focusing on Elizabeth and her love life. She could have had many interesting storylines without having to have a man chasing her.

Its very weird that Lissing 'chose' to leave a show where he was the lead and didnt have anything else lined up.  A quick google doesnt show him doing any other major work. I dont know, did he think he was actually bigger than the show or was it showbiz politics that pushed him out? If it was the former, be careful what you wish for and if it was the latter surely he would have been picked up by someone else by now. All very odd. I remember Dan Stevens doing a similar thing when he left Downton Abbey and while I'm sure he's worked since then I cant say Ive seen him in anything of note and DA had a MUCH bigger audience that WCTH.

Recast the part of Jack I say. Have a huge grand finale where everyone gets their happy ending.

Thank you for recommending Dr Quinn, will definitley give it another go.

Edited by UK Lady
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On 10/8/2020 at 12:59 PM, norcalgal said:

Thus, if Dan Lissing allows them to still use his photo on the show, I don't think he's totally soured on WCTH. [NOTE: this isn't me speculating about him returning or not. It's more about the way contracts are structured.]  In contrast, when Shannen Doherty left the show Charmed she made it explicit that the show could not use her image in any way - period. (I think they would have had to pay her to use her image.)  Anyway, just throwing this out there...

I haven't noticed for sure about the photo, but if it is indeed still there, that would make sense, unlike Sophia Bush leaving Chicago PD and nobody ever again even mentioning her character's name, even her freakin' foster dad who essentially raised her...

On 10/12/2020 at 5:29 AM, UK Lady said:

Its very weird that Lissing 'chose' to leave a show where he was the lead and didnt have anything else lined up.  A quick google doesnt show him doing any other major work

His character on The Rookie is recurring, but a pretty small role to date. Maybe DL is hoping that role will expand? IMO that isn't likely to happen, considering the show already has a large number of regulars.

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On 10/7/2020 at 7:05 AM, UK Lady said:

First time ever commenting on any tv series - I was just so damned angry about the way it ended I had to vent. Apologies for rambling. x

Hello, I'm an older timer with regard to WCTH and I'm still angry about what LL, BIRD and KRAKOW (they are all executive producers) did to this show by killing off the Jack character. I watched in real time, I was so happy for the wedding and then bam, Jack is dead. Krakow and LL were telling fans to move on and they really did not understand that the only thing real about that show was J&E. Now they turned Elizabeth's "chalk dust to eternity" into a women who leaves her baby for any reason, goes off on dates, even one overnight with the saloon owner, and throws herself in the arms of another Mountie. It's just horrible, they did such a disservice to Jack character, and turned Elizabeth into a thirsty women walking down the street flirting with any man who will pay attention. Also the other characters are just as cheesy and bad actors as ever (they even replaced the annoying Cody character with another really bad child actor but a girl this time), which I would fast forward through just to see J&E scenes. 

I did try to watch a few episodes since Jack died but I would get too sad and angry so I have stopped. This is the only board I follow with regard to the show.

On 10/12/2020 at 1:18 AM, UK Lady said:

Im just wanting a happy ending and by that I dont mean Elizabeth waltzing off into the sunset with a bar owner or another mountie. Too much sadness in the world right now.

I so agree and I've been feeling like this since April 2018! Just so horrible for Hallmark to have done.

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On 10/16/2020 at 4:18 PM, SnarkySheep said:

I haven't noticed for sure about the photo, but if it is indeed still there, that would make sense, unlike Sophia Bush leaving Chicago PD and nobody ever again even mentioning her character's name, even her freakin' foster dad who essentially raised her...

His character on The Rookie is recurring, but a pretty small role to date. Maybe DL is hoping that role will expand? IMO that isn't likely to happen, considering the show already has a large number of regulars.

Ive never seen him in anything else to be honest - I hope for his sake that he gets regular work but, like you I dont think its likely if the show has a large number of regulars.

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13 hours ago, enduringforce said:

Hello, I'm an older timer with regard to WCTH and I'm still angry about what LL, BIRD and KRAKOW (they are all executive producers) did to this show by killing off the Jack character. I watched in real time, I was so happy for the wedding and then bam, Jack is dead. Krakow and LL were telling fans to move on and they really did not understand that the only thing real about that show was J&E. Now they turned Elizabeth's "chalk dust to eternity" into a women who leaves her baby for any reason, goes off on dates, even one overnight with the saloon owner, and throws herself in the arms of another Mountie. It's just horrible, they did such a disservice to Jack character, and turned Elizabeth into a thirsty women walking down the street flirting with any man who will pay attention. Also the other characters are just as cheesy and bad actors as ever (they even replaced the annoying Cody character with another really bad child actor but a girl this time), which I would fast forward through just to see J&E scenes. 

I did try to watch a few episodes since Jack died but I would get too sad and angry so I have stopped. This is the only board I follow with regard to the show.

I so agree and I've been feeling like this since April 2018! Just so horrible for Hallmark to have done.

Hello - lovely to hear Im not alone in my thoughts. Here in the UK we can only get up to series 5 on Netflix, but like you I wont watch further series anyway, I rarely get so invested in anything like this but it was such a lovely (albeit long) story they sold us with J&E then I felt so cheated and saddened by that horrible end.

Ive read that 'move on' comment on another forum, (it may have been Krakow) and it was also said that J&E werent the only characters and that other stories were playing out that would be interesting. If thats the case then why are they once again playing up the 'will they wont they' storyline of Elizabeth and her suitors?

How would you feel about Jacks character being recast?

I mean really? Another mountie pursuing her? Would she really put herself through that again? And a saloon owner? Nope. Im not buying it.

Edited by UK Lady · Reason: added text
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5 hours ago, UK Lady said:

it was also said that J&E werent the only characters and that other stories were playing out that would be interesting. If thats the case then why are they once again playing up the 'will they wont they' storyline of Elizabeth and her suitors?

Yes, this is exactly true it was always about them the 'town people' just filled in screen time. It sickens me that they turned Elizabeth into a 'next man up' kind of women. Elizabeth's words of love are now just so cheap.

5 hours ago, UK Lady said:

How would you feel about Jacks character being recast?

I would be fine for a recast. I always advocated for the character not the actor. When LL, Bird and Krakow had their YouTube video saying they could not 'recast' because no one could forget Dan's face, that is totally out of character for an actor to say. An actor is not the character and many TV characters get recast and it's fine. But remember, when they fired Dan (and I say this because he had nothing to go too that was a steady job), LL was making the show all about her. Her character Abigail was the mayor, a major business owner, getting her own storyline with Gowan, etc. So by killing Jack, I believe the focus was to be on her and not Elizabeth and Jack. This is just my suspicion but we will never know because LL is now a felon.

5 hours ago, UK Lady said:

I mean really? Another mountie pursuing her? Would she really put herself through that again? And a saloon owner? Nope. Im not buying it.

This show was never about staying true to the time period, but Elizabeth is a wealthy woman and there is no way her family would have abandon her when Jack died and not have had her come home to have the baby. Also, Jack's Mother and Brother don't show up either? This is too crazy to believe. But to now have Elizabeth flirting in the street with a Saloon owner about becoming a Saloon girl (first episode S6), was so jarring to me that I turn it off and felt sick and sad. Then a new Mountie shows up, (why they already have Bill as a Sheriff no need for a Mountie), and once again she is flirting with him too. Just too sad. 

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1 hour ago, enduringforce said:

Yes, this is exactly true it was always about them the 'town people' just filled in screen time. It sickens me that they turned Elizabeth into a 'next man up' kind of women. Elizabeth's words of love are now just so cheap.

I would be fine for a recast. I always advocated for the character not the actor. When LL, Bird and Krakow had their YouTube video saying they could not 'recast' because no one could forget Dan's face, that is totally out of character for an actor to say. An actor is not the character and many TV characters get recast and it's fine. But remember, when they fired Dan (and I say this because he had nothing to go too that was a steady job), LL was making the show all about her. Her character Abigail was the mayor, a major business owner, getting her own storyline with Gowan, etc. So by killing Jack, I believe the focus was to be on her and not Elizabeth and Jack. This is just my suspicion but we will never know because LL is now a felon.

This show was never about staying true to the time period, but Elizabeth is a wealthy woman and there is no way her family would have abandon her when Jack died and not have had her come home to have the baby. Also, Jack's Mother and Brother don't show up either? This is too crazy to believe. But to now have Elizabeth flirting in the street with a Saloon owner about becoming a Saloon girl (first episode S6), was so jarring to me that I turn it off and felt sick and sad. Then a new Mountie shows up, (why they already have Bill as a Sheriff no need for a Mountie), and once again she is flirting with him too. Just too sad. 

I think the show realized that they didn't need two law enforcement characters for such a small town, so that's why Bill is now a judge.  [Not sure if this means he can't perform law enforcement duties anymore....though].

But, the thing I never, ever understood is what legal authority does Bill - an American character - have in Canada?  Because there's a Mountie on the show, it's clear the locale is set in Canada, so how does Bill have any right to arrest/investigate anyone? Did the show ever explain this?

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25 minutes ago, norcalgal said:

legal authority does Bill - an American character - have in Canada? 

Actually the Bill character came in as a Mountie Investigator (to investigate Gowan and the mine incident that killed over 40 men) so we are to believe he is a Canadian. This show is all about suspension of disbelief in any case.

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Since it’s been almost two years since Jack’s death and Elizabeth is a young woman who has made clear over and over through the show’s run that she doesn’t want to live on her parents’ money, I don’t think it’s such a bad thing (or unrealistic) for her to finally be open to suitors. It’s not like she’s been parading up and down the street crying “heigh ho for a husband!” (tm Much Ado About Nothing).

The night away without a chaperone to see the author was a huuuuuuge stretch but in a show that still hasn’t acknowledged that there’s a massive war going on, I just have to give it a resounding “meh” even though in the present day that would be an amazing gift.

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1 hour ago, sharifa70 said:

Elizabeth is a young woman who has made clear over and over through the show’s run that she doesn’t want to live on her parents’ money,

No, this is not true. She has accepted money from them many times, season 1 they gave her a journal with lots of money in it, season 2 she went home and had a shopping spree with her sisters. She gladly accepts their money and support, she is just wanting to be a teacher when her parents would rather her do other things. But they are 100% behind her since her marriage and Jack asking for her father's approval and her father coming to help rebuild the church after the fire and then walking her down the isle. So no, I don't recall her ever saying she wants rejects her families money. 

Edited by enduringforce
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16 minutes ago, enduringforce said:

No, this is not true. She has accepted money from them many times, season 1 they gave her a journal with lots of money in it, season 2 she went home and had a shopping spree with her sisters. She gladly accepts their money and support, she is just wanting to be a teacher when her parents would rather her do other things. But they are 100% behind her since her marriage and Jack asking for her father's approval and her father coming to help rebuild the church after the fire and then walking her down the isle. So no, I don't recall her ever saying she wants rejects her families money. 

Yes, that’s how I see it too. 

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14 hours ago, enduringforce said:

No, this is not true. She has accepted money from them many times, season 1 they gave her a journal with lots of money in it, season 2 she went home and had a shopping spree with her sisters. She gladly accepts their money and support, she is just wanting to be a teacher when her parents would rather her do other things. But they are 100% behind her since her marriage and Jack asking for her father's approval and her father coming to help rebuild the church after the fire and then walking her down the isle. So no, I don't recall her ever saying she wants rejects her families money. 

I believe she also asked her father a few times to send her books/supplies for the school. Elizabeth admitted herself that she loves living in her row house in Hope Valley, but shes equally at home in the big house in Hamilton - its all part of who she is.

If the narrative is now different (I havent watched since the E&J wedding) then theyre selling a whole new storyline.

 

Edited by UK Lady
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I concede that she has accepted occasional help from her family. My real point was that a young woman who is nearly two years widowed isn’t wrong for accepting attention from new suitors - not now and particularly not then. The show writers are ridiculous for many (oh, so many) things, but also for introducing one of the suitors as another Mountie and I wonder if Elizabeth would be criticized as much if he had been, say, a farmer or a pastor something.

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1 hour ago, sharifa70 said:

I wonder if Elizabeth would be criticized as much if he had been, say, a farmer or a pastor something.

I think the reason I'm having problems with Elizabeth going after any suitor is because the love story between Jack and Elizabeth was built up for 5 years as one for the ages. Never to be found again and to be held onto for all eternity. A love that does not have to be present to be felt, does not have to be spoken to be known and lasts longer than our mortality on this earth, "from chalk dust to eternity." 

Then they kill off Jack and now Elizabeth is actively pursuing two other men. I don't care if they were farmers, doctors, store keepers, outlaws, the very fact that Elizabeth is pursuing anyone at all just destroys the 'one true love' narrative that this really cheesy show fed us for 5 years. That is very sad and that is why I'm still angry this show went in this direction. 

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16 minutes ago, enduringforce said:

I think the reason I'm having problems with Elizabeth going after any suitor is because the love story between Jack and Elizabeth was built up for 5 years as one for the ages. Never to be found again and to be held onto for all eternity. A love that does not have to be present to be felt, does not have to be spoken to be known and lasts longer than our mortality on this earth, "from chalk dust to eternity." 

Then they kill off Jack and now Elizabeth is actively pursuing two other men. I don't care if they were farmers, doctors, store keepers, outlaws, the very fact that Elizabeth is pursuing anyone at all just destroys the 'one true love' narrative that this really cheesy show fed us for 5 years. That is very sad and that is why I'm still angry this show went in this direction. 

Yep. That about sums it up for me too. What they had can never be replaced, and she shouldn’t even try. 

I haven’t watched seasons 6&7, I have no idea how she interacts with the Mountie or the saloon owner or how she feels about them so maybe I’m not one to judge but I do know that whichever one she chose would never be enough after what she had with Jack. 

It was a cheap shot from Hallmark, they sold us the one true love story and now they’re saying ‘well no actually, he’s replaceable’. He’s just not. He never will be. Elizabeth could have lived her life with so many other stories apart from the narrative that’s now being fed.

“Have you ever been in love? Horrible, isn't it? It makes you so vulnerable. It opens your chest and it opens up your heart and it means that someone can get inside you and mess you up. You build up all these defenses. You build up this whole armor, for years, so nothing can hurt you, then one stupid person, no different from any other stupid person, wanders into your stupid life… You give them a piece of you. They don't ask for it. They do something dumb one day like kiss you, or smile at you, and then your life isn't your own anymore. Love takes hostages. It gets inside you. It eats you out and leaves you crying in the darkness, so a simple phrase like "maybe we should just be friends" or "how very perceptive" turns into a glass splinter working its way into your heart. It hurts. Not just in the imagination. Not just in the mind. It's a soul-hurt, a body-hurt, a real gets-inside-you-and-rips-you-apart pain. Nothing should be able to do that. Especially not love. I hate love.”

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I'm saying they pursued her, not the other way around, and she has come around (slowly) to the idea. Hence my comment about her not running down the street crying out for a husband. I don't think it's disrespectful to the original love story and I also don't think they're setting Lucas or Nathan up to be the Replacement Great Love Story. If there's anything at all realistic and consistent about this show, it's the running theme of renewal, change, and growth. They don't always do it well, but it's always been there. It was a mistake and a disappointment to kill off Jack for sure, but it would be an even bigger mistake, and contrary to the show's one consistent idea, for Elizabeth to just freeze right there and be the one widow in town who doesn't find a way to move on.

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1 minute ago, sharifa70 said:

I'm saying they pursued her, not they other way around, iand she has come around (slowly) to the idea. Hence my comment about her not running down the street crying out for a husband. I don't think it's disrespectful to the original love story and I also don't think they're setting Lucas or Nathan up to be the Replacement Great Love Story. If there's anything at all realistic and consistent about this show, it's the running theme of renewal, change, and growth. They don't always do it well, but it's always been there. It was a mistake and a disappointment to kill off Jack for sure, but it would be an even bigger mistake, and contrary to the show's one consistent idea, for Elizabeth to just freeze right there and be the one widow in town who doesn't find a way to move on.

I know. And I totally understand your point of view. But she didn’t need to freeze in time, she could have been a strong single parent, an advocate for women’s rights - anything really. Her story could have continued down a different path. 

Its just that for me there will only ever be Jack for Elizabeth.  There are obviously two different camps and for those that continue to watch the show then I suppose they want her to move on. But for me it ended when they married and they now live happily with lots of little Thornton’s running around 🙂

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2 minutes ago, UK Lady said:

I know. And I totally understand your point of view. But she didn’t need to freeze in time, she could have been a strong single parent, an advocate for women’s rights - anything really. Her story could have continued down a different path. 

Yes, exactly. Jack's mother 'moved-on' as a single parent, raising two strong boys and living an active and enjoyable life. She lived by her own rules and kept the love of Jack's father in her heart forever. 

Neither Charlotte nor Elizabeth need a man and to make the show all about Elizabeth and two men is horrible. They literally had a commercial with Elizabeth walking down the center of the street looking left and right 'seeking out' two men. That is what this show is about now, who is the next one up for Elizabeth and it's horrible. 

 

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12 minutes ago, UK Lady said:

But for me it ended when they married and they now live happily with lots of little Thornton’s running around 🙂

OMG! I know right. I only read fanfictions now about J&E and they have many kids, build their house on the hill and still have adventures and town issues (cars, women's rights, equality, etc.) to deal with but they love each other and grow old together. 

I guess that's the one thing I'm grateful for this show is that they gave us the fantastic characters of Jack and Elizabeth. 

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Just in case anyone in the UK is interested series 6 is now available on Netflix - I couldnt watch it but others might like to watch.

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Came across a quirky You Tuber called Bernadette Banner who is into vintage clothing, makes a lot of her own, and was a costume designer.  She did an episode on costume design misses and this show came up and she was speechless about the lack of authenticity.  Like they weren't even trying.  Was enjoyable.

 

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@lookeyloo Thanks for the laugh! She was a few years off in her assessment (their costumes should be more Downton Abbey: the WWI years and less right at 1900), but she was spot on with “They did have grass. And faces.” 😂

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On 11/3/2020 at 4:29 AM, UK Lady said:

Just in case anyone in the UK is interested series 6 is now available on Netflix - I couldnt watch it but others might like to watch.

I'm super jealous.  I'm about done with this show if they don't release it soon.  In my world, Jack & Elizabeth just got married and that is that, end of story.

 I think Hallmark is just going to move it to the Hallmark app instead of putting on Netflix at this point, so if you're someone like me that didn't start watching till this year then tough.  

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Oh I love me some Bernadette.  She has mythical status in the online sewing community, especially among historical sewers.

And it's interesting, she has another video where she talks about movies/TV series where they got the costumes right, and she makes a point to mention that if you sacrifice historical accuracy in the interest of "modern beauty aesthetics" you aren't even giving the viewer a chance to appreciate other ideas.  She loves the series "Gentleman Jack" for this reason, because it takes place in the 1830s, when hairstyles were wacky and sleeves were practically floatation devices.  The costume department embraced all of that and it has the result of normalizing it.  The hairstyles don't look so crazy once you get used to them.  With time you start to see how this could have been considered beautiful in its own time.

WCtH, like Reign, or The Tudors, doesn't give the viewers a chance.  It just puts the women in long skirts and thinks that's enough.  Part of me thinks it's just laziness.  I can find the "costumes" of WCtH in stores, I doubt they even make them, they're probably just off the rack clothing.  (Not including Season 1, where the costumes actually seemed sort of okay.)

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On 11/25/2020 at 8:07 PM, Callietwo said:

I'm super jealous.  I'm about done with this show if they don't release it soon.  In my world, Jack & Elizabeth just got married and that is that, end of story.

 I think Hallmark is just going to move it to the Hallmark app instead of putting on Netflix at this point, so if you're someone like me that didn't start watching till this year then tough.  

That’s the best place to be. He doesn’t die and all is right with the world. ❤️

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Just rewatched a few episodes around the time Jack and Elizabeth got married...and was quite surprised to look closely at the people assembling in the pews for the ceremony, and see Henry Gowan. WTF? In the previous episode he had been essentially the only guy in town not invited to Jack's bachelor party (like, he hadn't even known about it, judging by the way he entered the saloon and seemed totally baffled to see the group). And IMO the only reason Jack invited him to stay was to be the bigger person and not have people cause a scene on his day of celebration; otherwise, he would've invited Gowen in the first place.

But...to suddenly be invited to the wedding? The same guy who had just the previous year tried to ruin Elizabeth's existence by taking her job? Huh.

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I just saw a promotion for the latest season and it seems Elizabeth will finally choose between the two guys this season. Just my gut feeling, but I think she chooses 

Spoiler

Lucas because the show won't go the Mountie route again.   If correct, too bad because I think she and the Mountie are a more visually appealing couple.

 

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On 2/9/2021 at 9:47 PM, norcalgal said:

I just saw a promotion for the latest season and it seems Elizabeth will finally choose between the two guys this season.

 

3 hours ago, lookeyloo said:

I still wish a third man would show up, be totally appropriate, and sweep her off her feet. 

I just wish Elizabeth would pull a Kelly Taylor and say "I choose me"  Really - why does the show feel the need to give her a replacement husband and baby daddy for little Jack right away?  I'm just awed by the fact that with possibly so many other widows in Hope Valley (or even Fiona who I really liked and am saddened they wrote off) that two new dashing, eligible bachelors to the town both fall for a young,widowed mother.  Yeah - hope for every young, widowed mother out there.  But the fawning and weener swinging between Lucas and Nathan is nauseating.

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1 minute ago, ctlady said:

 

I just wish Elizabeth would pull a Kelly Taylor and say "I choose me"  Really - why does the show feel the need to give her a replacement husband and baby daddy for little Jack right away?  I'm just awed by the fact that with possibly so many other widows in Hope Valley (or even Fiona who I really liked and am saddened they wrote off) that two new dashing, eligible bachelors to the town both fall for a young,widowed mother.  Yeah - hope for every young, widowed mother out there.  But the fawning and weener swinging between Lucas and Nathan is nauseating.

I would agree in more modern shows, but, this one being a vintage Hallmark romance type, they will find her a new husband.  If the third dashing fellow appears, maybe Fiona can catch the eye of the other bachelors.  Because, in those times, in general, marriage is what its about for the women.  Even the modern Hallmark movies are matching up the couples.  I gave up on them.

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On 2/11/2021 at 3:15 PM, lookeyloo said:

I would agree in more modern shows, but, this one being a vintage Hallmark romance type, they will find her a new husband.  If the third dashing fellow appears, maybe Fiona can catch the eye of the other bachelors.  Because, in those times, in general, marriage is what its about for the women.  Even the modern Hallmark movies are matching up the couples.  I gave up on them.

Right on both counts.

Not that WCTH is big on historical accuracy, but IRL a woman in Elizabeth's situation during that time would most likely have made a choice already long ago. The marriage would have been way less about love than simple practicality, e.g. having a husband provide financially so Elizabeth could be home with the baby instead of working and farming him out all over town.

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So frustrating that they've not released season 6 or 7 on Netflix (and they've removed 1-5!) but they also don't offer them on Hallmark Movies Now, either.  They only have season 1 on HMN.  WTF.  I'd actually buy HMN to at least see those seasons, if nothing else.  I'm not paying for each season separately.. they can take a hike.  

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Netflix has licensing agreements with the creators of series, and when those agreements are up, they reevaluate the cost vs. benefit to keeping those series available.  If there isn't enough interest in a series, they drop it from the platform.  So I can kind of understand Netflix's position -- seasons 6 and 7 had a very obvious and very precipitous drop in viewership on the channel itself (for understandable reasons) so Netflix probably saw that and decided it wasn't worth it to pay for the licensing for those seasons.  And now that the contract is up for 1-5, they drop the rest of the show.

I don't get not having it available on HMN though.  The show does still have a die hard fanbase and seasons 1-5 are well loved (and season 1 I'd call legitimately good), so you'd think they'd at least make those available -- unless they think they'll make more money by making you buy each season individually?  I don't have the platform so I don't know how it works.  Isn't the point of paying for the streaming service itself though that you don't have to pay for individual movies/seasons?  Disney+ certainly doesn't charge me extra for individual seasons of The Mandalorian.

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4 hours ago, dubstepford wife said:

I don't get not having it available on HMN though.  The show does still have a die hard fanbase and seasons 1-5 are well loved (and season 1 I'd call legitimately good), so you'd think they'd at least make those available -- unless they think they'll make more money by making you buy each season individually?  I don't have the platform so I don't know how it works.  Isn't the point of paying for the streaming service itself though that you don't have to pay for individual movies/seasons?  Disney+ certainly doesn't charge me extra for individual seasons of The Mandalorian.

Its only available through Amazon Prime, iTunes or Vudu and even though I pay for AP, it is not a show that is included for free under their agreement. 

iTunes & Vudu are charging $14.99 for each individual season & AP is charging $9.99 a season (on top of the streaming service I already purchased!)  Hell no, I'm not paying $20 to $30 dollars extra for one show.  If they put it on HMN, I'd be willing to pay for that, as at least there are other shows I could watch.  

 

 

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Looking at other “heartie” groups people are melting down over Elizabeth not choosing her new true love in the first episode of the season.  They’ve teased what the season is...it’s just the love triangle.  She’ll or one of the two guys will make their choice in the finale, that’s how this works.

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5 hours ago, scenicbyway said:

Looking at other “heartie” groups people are melting down over Elizabeth not choosing her new true love in the first episode of the season.  They’ve teased what the season is...it’s just the love triangle.  She’ll or one of the two guys will make their choice in the finale, that’s how this works.

Who do most Hearties think Elizabeth will choose?  (I don't frequent any WCTH social media except this forum).  Speaking for myself, I've stated that I think it will be Lucas, because the show will probably not want to go the Mountie route again, and based on this Season 8 opening episode, I still see it that way.

More thoughts on this first episode:

Isn't Lucas's last name Bouchard?  Why was Elizabeth so surprised to find out "Helen Bouchard" was his mom?

I love the fake-out involving Nathan and his skeevy brother-in-law. I like it when law enforcement is shown as clever and competent. Although I did laugh that the Mounties needed so many guys just to arrest the one guy!

Fiona continues to be my fave female character. She's smart, spirited, ambitious and pretty!  WCTH is so stupid not to feature her more, although hopefully that will change this season.

Everyone/thing else was snooze-ville.

 

 

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24 minutes ago, norcalgal said:

Everyone/thing else was snooze-ville.

Agreed. I fast-forwarded all of the Clara/Jesse stuff because there is literally nothing that can make me care about these characters and their Newlywed Problems. Faith/Carson is also a pair that’s kind of a waste of screen time and they get the fast-forward treatment too. They have zero chemistry and Faith’s personality...just...isn’t a thing that exists. You know who should get more screen time with a meaningful storyline? Fiona!

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2 hours ago, norcalgal said:

Who do most Hearties think Elizabeth will choose?  (I don't frequent any WCTH social media except this forum).  Speaking for myself, I've stated that I think it will be Lucas, because the show will probably not want to go the Mountie route again, and based on this Season 8 opening episode, I still see it that way.

More thoughts on this first episode:

Everyone/thing else was snooze-ville.

 

 

The groups I see think she'll end up with Nathan because he's a Mountie and apparently in the books the teacher ends up with the Mountie.  I think they could easily not go this route because she did marry the Mountie, they just immediately killed him off after the honeymoon.

I think Elizabeth and Lucas have better chemistry and the character seems to actually care about Elizabeth.  I don't think they've done a great job in pairing her with either one so far.  Elizabeth and Jack had amazing chemistry but they took way to long to put them together, to the detriment of the other characters.  The only other interesting couple is Lee and Rosemary but even their story has been stuck since they got married.  Who cares about Clara and Jesse?  

I wonder if Lucas would've even been a possibility if Lori aka Abigail had stayed on the show.  In those first few episodes of intro before the reshoots it looked like he was fairly shady with the guns hiding in the shipments, etc.  Once Abigail was gone so was the dark side of Lucas.

The worst couple is Carson and Faith.  They had some chemistry before they were a couple and now it's just awkward and has been awkward since their first kiss.  They should've written Faith off and brought in a new nurse. Ugh

I hope Elizabeth ends up with Lucas, but this show is far from exciting so she'll probably choose sulky Nathan with built in babysitter Allie.

 

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It feels like there are too many characters in a show with too few episodes per season.  I enjoy the main characters, but it felt like they were bouncing around too much to make sure everyone was included in the episode. 

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58 minutes ago, scenicbyway said:

The groups I see think she'll end up with Nathan because he's a Mountie and apparently in the books the teacher ends up with the Mountie.  I think they could easily not go this route because she did marry the Mountie, they just immediately killed him off after the honeymoon.

I never read any of the books, but don't the book readers know Elizabeth DID end up with the Mountie - Jack?!  Do they think Jack and Nathan are the same person?!

I think Elizabeth and Lucas have better chemistry and the character seems to actually care about Elizabeth.  I don't think they've done a great job in pairing her with either one so far.  Elizabeth and Jack had amazing chemistry but they took way to long to put them together, to the detriment of the other characters. The only other interesting couple is Lee and Rosemary but even their story has been stuck since they got married.  Who cares about Clara and Jesse?  

ITA to all this!

I wonder if Lucas would've even been a possibility if Lori aka Abigail had stayed on the show.  In those first few episodes of intro before the reshoots it looked like he was fairly shady with the guns hiding in the shipments, etc.  Once Abigail was gone so was the dark side of Lucas.

Yes, I've mentioned before that it's a shame they reformed Lucas because there are no ambiguous characters left, now that even HENRY has been reformed.  

The worst couple is Carson and Faith.  They had some chemistry before they were a couple and now it's just awkward and has been awkward since their first kiss.  They should've written Faith off and brought in a new nurse. Ugh

This is a situation of "be careful what you wish for". Before the show made them a couple, I 'shipped them, and now - maybe not regret - don't care about them either as a couple or as individuals.

I hope Elizabeth ends up with Lucas, but this show is far from exciting so she'll probably choose sulky Nathan with built in babysitter Allie.

I've posted here more than once that aesthetically speaking, I think Elizabeth and Nathan "fit" more as a couple. Their physical features when viewed together just look more pleasing to me.  (Shallow, I know...)  Speaking of Nathan, did the actor just return from vacation (or a tanning bed) before they filmed the first episode?  He looked tanned.

At this point, I'm watching WCTH only because I've been there from the very beginning (I even watched the 2 hour movie that kickstarted the tv series) so I want to be able to say I watched to the bitter end.

 

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