S05.E02: Clutch of Greed

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Captured by Neolution Sarah receives a damning ultimatum from Rachel: come into the fold, or lose your family. Her decision causes a clash with Kira who begins exploring her own maturity. Meanwhile, Ferdinand struggles to get a handle on Rachel’s new velvet glove mandate in pursuit of the clones. With Neolutionists and Ferdinand watching their every move, Felix brings an old ally into the mix to help his family get Kira to safety. On the Island, Cosima struggles to comprehend the reality of the Neolution myth made real.

Promo:

[chocolatine]

I hope Helena or Siobhan get a hold of scumbag Ferdinand soon and make him suffer. Sarah will probably never forgive herself for leading him to MK, especially since it turned out to be for nothing.

I knew Helena's babies were going to be super-healers like she is. Was the doctor supposed to be Neolution? She was very pushy about the amnio, which is supposed to be an elective procedure.

Did anyone else get shades of The Man In The High Castle from P.T. Westmoreland? I don't believe he's just about the science; Cosima is right to be suspicious.

[peridot]

This was the most gruesome episode I've seen in a while.  I can't believe they had MK go out like that, Ferdinand is completely out of his mind.

The scarecrow cop was only in the episode for a minute, but I immediately wanted her off the screen.

I don't get Rachel's zen-thing, but I hope Sarah gets one over her and gets her daughter back.

I really hope we get some answers in this last season, I hate the cryptic shit & cliffhangers.

[AftermathTV]

-Well for a long time Ferdinand felt like a comic relief frenemy, which helped us forget Helsinki. But now that he isn't getting laid, he lets his shitbag flag fly. The stomping on MK was sickening. I didn't expect MK to go this early, and I thought if she was going to die she might take Ferdinand out with her. And when that didn't happen, I expected Rachel to execute him, but it looks like all that happened was him getting fired. Oh well, we know what happened to the last guy Rachel fired. Incoming 3rd revenge fantasy.

-A lot of Kira's story from the past 4 seasons just wove together. She's never liked being on the run, and now she can speak for herself instead of silently accepting all her mother's rashly thought plans. I was irritated with Sarah for ignoring Kira's feeling about MK. If it was any other Dyad guard, then MK would likely be breathing. But you don't leave her with her mortal enemy and not expect sparks to fly. Sarah is finally going to have to learn how to be still if she wants her daughter. Great tie back to that lesson S tried to impart on her.

-PT's a sophisticated cow. Why does Mud live there? Ira's back to his mum as a double agent. So much for Sardinia, Delphine. Even if it starts with an S. 

-JESUS FUCKING CHRIST, HELENA. I get why she was paranoid, but I think that was just an innocent hospital worker. Surely there was an easier way to escape than plunging a needle through her face. Donnie's flight response applies to both clones, not just Alison. At least he has a good excuse to tell Matty for why they're separated and why he "doesn't know" her hidden Helena lair.

Next Time: More garage fiasco, Kira preferring Auntie Rachel, Ramone the rat traitor shows his liar face, and Alison makes a public spectacle of the c word.

Edited June 22, 2017 by AftermathTV

[natyxg]

So, they only brought MK back just so she could die and Kira could say  "i don't feel her anymore!', right? Yikes.

[Glade]

Mk and her backstory was so interesting in S4, and her revenge on Ferdinand was satisfying, though obv she should have killed him at the time.  You know...I really didn't feel her anymore either, Kira, the performance just felt kind of weak, and I really don't like that Ferdinand killed her in this fashion, it was totally unnecessary in every possible sense.  If she had flat out died from the illness like Cosima almost did, that might have at least meant something. 

This season needs to pick up soon, we need to get beyond everyone just going through the motions of a plotline that they themselves acknowledge has already happened too many times to count.  Even that stone staircase up to PT Westmoreland's house looked exactly like the stone staircase to the safehouse at the beginning of S2.  I guess Felix isn't getting his own storyline anymore, no word of his sister(/mother?) and no boyfriend on the horizon?  I need more Felix. 

Edited June 18, 2017 by Glade

[Investment Banker]

It's interesting that Kira favors Rachel. Could this be the result of her having some form of an identity crisis or strong curiosity of her origins, or did Rachel (and her affiliates) somehow brainwash her? I'm not sure brainwashing is too far out there, as it could explain the complete personality change Rachel is showing. 

 

Additionally, what information does Delphine have to deliver that can't be disclosed to the Leda clones? 

[AftermathTV]

41 minutes ago, Investment Banker said:

It's interesting that Kira favors Rachel. Could this be the result of her having some form of an identity crisis or strong curiosity of her origins, or did Rachel (and her affiliates) somehow brainwash her? I'm not sure brainwashing is too far out there, as it could explain the complete personality change Rachel is showing. 

 

Additionally, what information does Delphine have to deliver that can't be disclosed to the Leda clones? 

Kira has empathy for Rachel because Rachel's emotions are a part of her. Rachel's entire story up to this point shows Rachel is the one with the identity crisis.

Kira is the best judge of the character in the series. Think back to Helena. Her power is what tells us Rachel is redemptive.

Delphine trusting S with the info is comical, but Delphine is known for making the dumbest calls when it comes to earning clone trust.

[Gulftastic]

Ferdinand, you utter bastard. He must suffer. And not in the way he likes to suffer.

Kira's desire to find out why she is like she is and get it sorted out is a nice touch.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I continue to love Donnie and Helena's relationship, so I'm bummed that she's hiding on her own again.

At the beginning of the episode when Sarah was video conferencing with everyone, I thought why in the holy hell is everyone cooperating with Rachel/Dyad? So it was good to watch the rest of the episode unfold and see that it wasn't sincere. I think Alison is the one who is cooperating with the least amount of subterfuge or ulterior motive, but that's because (1) she doesn't want Scarecrow beating up Art and (2) she has no idea where Donnie and Helena are. Even so, it's clear that she's just treading water until at least one of those two conditions changes. Until then, there isn't much she can do so she's stuck waiting.

Loved that as soon as the door closed, Mrs. S, Felix, and Sarah sprang into action (complete with the vacuum cleaner in case the house was bugged). I appreciate all the effort they went through to get Sarah and Kira out of Dyad's reach, but they never took into account what Kira wants, which is to go to school like a normal kid and to find out why she's the way that she is. She is old enough to realize that she's different and as much as I loathe seeing her with Rachel's smug face, Kira will never find all the answers she wants on her own. Despite that, of course I understand why Sarah doesn't want them having access to Kira. There's no way she can trust them after everything that's been done to her and her sestras.

Poor MK. She knew that Ferdinand was going to kill her and she accepted her fate. I really wanted her to inflict some damage on him though. I knew that in her weakened state, there was no way that she could overpower or kill Ferdinand, but I was hoping that she'd at least get a few shots in and make him hurt.

Ha, when Charlotte said that everyone on the island takes vitamins, I was with Cosima when she removed the paper cups from their trays and said they wouldn't be taking them. I was already paranoid about Cosima eating the food there and drinking wine with PT. When he offered he full access to the lab so she could go back to doing research, it sounded suspiciously like what Leakey offered her back in S1.  I know I'm probably nitpicking, but when PT used the word "remarkable" to describe the clones right after Helena's neonatal specialist referred to the injured fetus that was no longer injured as remarkable, I thought dun dun duuuuuun. I don't blame Helena at all for being suspicious of everyone at the hospital and all the tests they wanted to do.

I can't wait to hear what Delphine thinks Sarah can't hear (but Mrs. S can).

[Mabinogia]

I'm kind of heartbroken. For the first time ever I turned off Orphan Black. I realized, around the time Helena stabbed the doctor with the syringe that I have no idea what they are all fighting for. I don't understand anyone's motive on this show and for the first time, I just don't care. I wanted to stick it out because I'm so close to the end but what's the point? I don't actually know what the point of the show is anymore.

It was fun while it lasted, and I will be forever grateful that I got to see Tatiana's amazing acting, but this is just one of those shows that feels too much like running on a hamster wheel at this point. Everyone is running around and nothing is really getting accomplished.

[Lady Calypso]

I think MK's death reflects a lot of the deaths that happen on this show. Often they're brutal and unexpected, sometimes for the sake of the shock factor, and sometimes they don't have a real purpose. But I do think MK's death sparked the conflict between Kira and Sarah, in that Kira's now fighting back for herself. Skyler Wexler has become a better actress as she's grown older. She's not great by any means, but they're giving her more to do, especially since there has been mystery surrounding her throughout the series, and she's doing what she can. I'm happy to finally get to the bottom of Kira and her psychic abilities. 

I do think we were leading up to MK's death this season. She hasn't been a big character and she's only appeared in a small handful of episodes, but it almost did circle back with her story. She's been on the run for so long that I knew that she'd probably sacrifice herself for her sestras. It may not have been in the way that I hoped she'd go out, but she's not a fighter, her work behind the computer is her strength, and unfortunately they didn't utilize her enough. Part of me hopes that she did leave Sarah one last important message or some help before her death that we might discover later on. Or maybe this was the end of MK.

Ok, so I'm still suspicious of the true nature of PT. Now Cosima seems on board with him? She was smiling at the end of their scene, which is the second clone that seems to be under PT's influence. I'm going to blame the wine. Maybe it's my paranoia, but I still suspect some mind control influence. I'd like to be wrong, but with Rachel buying completely into PT's philosophy and now is apparently not violent and doing whatever he says, and with him being old as hell, I'll wait until convinced otherwise. Especially with PT feeding the other people there those "vitamins", I have to think that they're contributing to the group-think mentality. Which is why I assume Delphine managed to find a way to not fall under the influence of the mind control and that's why she's with Siobhan now. Yeah, I'm definitely sticking with my theory for now.

Of course Ferdinand decided to roleplay with MK, pretending she was Rachel before he crushed her to death. He has some serious anger issues, all because he isn't getting laid or tortured for sexual pleasure. 

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

At the beginning of the episode when Sarah was video conferencing with everyone, I thought why in the holy hell is everyone cooperating with Rachel/Dyad? So it was good to watch the rest of the episode unfold and see that it wasn't sincere. I think Alison is the one who is cooperating with the least amount of subterfuge or ulterior motive, but that's because (1) she doesn't want Scarecrow beating up Art and (2) she has no idea where Donnie and Helena are. Even so, it's clear that she's just treading water until at least one of those two conditions changes. Until then, there isn't much she can do so she's stuck waiting.

I knew that none of them were really cooperating because Alison and Cosima were both looking off screen, which meant that they had other people there, keeping an eye on them. Alison's there only because she knows Art is in danger and she doesn't want to risk his death by disobeying. At this point, they know how dangerous Neolution is, and with Donnie and Helena missing, her best bet is definitely doing what they say until she can find a way out with Art. Unfortunately, out of all the sestras (besides maybe Krystal), she doesn't have as many options to get away successfully. She's tough and she's resourceful, and she knows how to hide bodies, but it'll be tougher for her to get away right now.

[natyxg]

14 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

 but this is just one of those shows that feels too much like running on a hamster wheel at this point.

I was as annoyed and bored as Kira was at seeing Sarah freaking out because they wanted Kira and yet again devising a plan to sneak away.  I guess the point was to do it one last time before they decided to stay for real, but my goodness, that got old a while back.

Also, I feel like OB spread its net to wide and liked to throw in everything but the kitchen sink, and now that they're supposed to be wrapping things up it's just not gonna be that satisfying. So many things now feel like they were pointless, others have just been forgotten and the new supposed endgame that was supposed to be part of it all along feels just pasted on at the last minute.

Meh.

[madam magpie]

Whew. Ferdinand is a psycho. That was brutal. RIP MK. 

So...Ferdinand thought he was killing Rachel, not Sarah? Or did he know it was MK when he did it? The reactions of everyone else were bizarre. Do Sarah, etc. all know Ferdinand did it? Rachel seems to, but does she know Ferdinand was basically killing her??

I'm 100% on board for Delphine teaming up with Mrs. S. I've wanted that to happen since season two. I wonder if they've been working together all along, though. It didn't seem like this was new for them; their exchange seemed like they had history, not to mention that I always wondered about Mrs. S's reaction last season when Cosima was crying about Delphine. It seemed like Mrs. S knew something, but I didn't know what. They also both play a similar role here and have similar goals: deep in the conspiracy, working from the inside, totally committed to/in love with the clone they're paired with, and willing to do some crazy stuff to protect her and the others because of the primary connection.

Westmorland certainly knows how to pull Cosima in, doesn't he? Give her a lab and the freedom to experiment.

Count me among those who don't buy Rachel's transformation" or trust Westmorland at all.

How much time has passed since the last episode? Do we know? Ferdinand said Sarah was out for awhile. I wonder if Delphine went to Sardinia and came back already? How did she get away from the island cult people, though?

I can understand Kira'a reaction. She's like Cosima and wants to know who/what she is. 

Edited June 18, 2017 by madam magpie

[natyxg]

3 minutes ago, madam magpie said:

 

So...Ferdinand thought he was killing Rachel, not Sarah? Or did he know it was MK when he did it?

Ferdinand knew he was killing MK, he even called her Vera. She's got the burned face, it's pretty hard to miss. He was acting out a Rachel revenge fantasy against her because she was wearing similar clothes and a wig (and is her clone, of course), while at the same time taking revenge on MK herself because she screwed him over and took his money.

I do wonder if he would have done the same to Sarah if he had found Sarah there.

[madam magpie]

2 minutes ago, natyxg said:

Ferdinand knew he was killing MK, he even called her Vera. She's got the burned face, it's pretty hard to miss. He was acting out a Rachel revenge fantasy against her because she was wearing similar clothes and a wig (and is her clone, of course), while at the same time taking revenge on MK herself because she screwed him over and took his money.

I do wonder if he would have done the same to Sarah if he had found Sarah there.

Ohhhhhh. Got it. I couldn't make out what he said when he saw her face. I don't remember what "Vera" is about, though. So it's likely Rachel doesn't care because she thinks he was just going after MK?

Edited June 18, 2017 by madam magpie

[meep.meep]

Not scarecrow - Olive Oyl

[natyxg]

37 minutes ago, madam magpie said:

Ohhhhhh. Got it. I couldn't make out what he said when he saw her face. I don't remember what "Vera" is about, though. So it's likely Rachel doesn't care because she thinks he was just going after MK?

Vera is MK's real name. Ferdinand knew her from Helsinki, from before she became MK, she was the clone who got away.

[Macbeth]

I am so glad that Kira said stop.  stop the running - let's get down to whatever the mystery is behind Kira.  Although I don't think we will find out.

11 hours ago, Glade said:

 Even that stone staircase up to PT Westmoreland's house looked exactly like the stone staircase to the safehouse at the beginning of S2. 

Yeah it really does look like the same staircase.  I would like to think this was production's knowing symbol that the endless running on the hamster wheel is over and we will find out the truth,  But more likely it is an isolated area that production needed for this part of the story.

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

I'm kind of heartbroken. For the first time ever I turned off Orphan Black. I realized, around the time Helena stabbed the doctor with the syringe that I have no idea what they are all fighting for. I don't understand anyone's motive on this show and for the first time, I just don't care. I wanted to stick it out because I'm so close to the end but what's the point? I don't actually know what the point of the show is anymore.

It was fun while it lasted, and I will be forever grateful that I got to see Tatiana's amazing acting, but this is just one of those shows that feels too much like running on a hamster wheel at this point. Everyone is running around and nothing is really getting accomplished.

Yes to all of this. Kind of reminds me of the last season or so of Lost with all the pirates and whatnot. Well, unlike many, I was at least satisfied with Lost's final episode, if not all the digressions and shenanigans that led up to it, so maybe the OB finale episode will be worth watching too.

The one thing I appreciated in the episode (beside the acting) was the alley where Sarah was hiding with all the luscious graffiti. Does anyone know about the place where it was shot?

Otherwise I would have preferred this episode if they had just had everyone reading from the phone book, or maybe Shakespeare.

[MissLucas]

Also in the dissatisfied camp - but the show can win me back if Allison gives scarecrow cop a special tour of her crafts room, soon please.

Not much to add except how much I hated Westmoreland's cow-speech. This is a standard for high-concept shows. A character asks the question the whole audience is asking and instead of an answer they get some metaphorical bs. And instead of reacting like a normal person ('What the hell are you talking about. I asked you a simple question - answer!') they just accept it - because the writers are not ready to reveal their cards, characters are forced to act like no normal human being would.

[msani19]

Right there with everyone else in disappointment in this episode. I found myself really irritated watching this because it really felt like the same cycle repeating itself yet again with no payoff. They are desperate to get away from the “bad guys” (pick your faction) and there’s some manufactured tension as they plan is executed and then something...

MK’s death was dramatic and shocking. I did gasp when Ferdinand stomped on her chest. THREE times! Like WTF was that about? He was taking out his Rachel hostilities on MK yet knowing full well that wasn’t Rachel? It was disturbing and creepy.

Rachel’s characterization has been all the place and that's also frustrating me, but then at the same time, I don’t even care anymore. I’m watching because some of the characters are delightful to me and because I HAVE to see what they cobble together to explain this – although I’m preparing myself to be disappointed, but hoping for the best.

Sarah has been driving me crazy for the past few seasons and I’m glad Kira said enough cause that’s how I feel about the way Sarah just barrels through all these situations with little forethought or rationale. Just not trusting “them” is not enough anymore because what is she really trying to do about it? Keep running for the rest of their lives? It’s nonsensical. I couldn't have agreed with Kira more in that moment. 

I genuinely don’t know what’s up or going on at Clone Camp. Delphine with some secret only Mrs. S can know? Shrug. 

Helena and Donnie - I liked until Helena shoved the needle into the doctor's cheek. Come on. I knew she was going to do something insane as soon as that curtain closed. Donnie backing away slowly...hilarious. Allison was amusing in her short scene. Art's partner is annoying in how much she's eating the scenery which I guess is the entire point of her character but *eye roll*.

[Macbeth]

MK all of a sudden showing up to help - made no sense what so ever.  She had been wise to avoid Sarah in the past - why she decided to sacrifice herself for Sarah at this point- I have no idea.  It's not like there is a remote possibility that Sarah and her family would ever be able to find a safe place from all of this.  That story line has been plaid ad nausea.

I am here for the acting and for moments when the sestras come together.

I can't think of any other television show - especially one where the characters are on very dangerous terrain - where I would be happy with the 7 year-old making decisions.

Alas, things have gone so wrong for this show - that I am on the 7 year-old's side.

[Kaboom 2.0]

I seriously thought for the first say, twenty minutes, of this episode that we were watching a clone having an actual nightmare. Rachel/Neolution takes over and the remaining clones and their loved ones just...accept it? 

I've seen some really disturbing shit on tv shows over the years but Ferdinand murdering MK in a (to him) Rachel-induced rage ranks right up there. Here's to hoping she left Scott and/or the Rabbit Hole's proprietor her hard drives, etc, to continue working on behalf of the sestras. 

Art's new partner annoys me to no end. Any guesses as to when she'll end up buried in the Hendrix garage? 

Kira choosing Rachel made me want to retch. 

[Doyounot]

To me the good stuff this episode was the sarah and mk scene swapping clothes and sarah holding her face. Also sarah breaking the tea cup. I had to rewatch those scenes since first time i forget that its anything special (which makes it more special) And mk doing sarahs accent! I totally thought it was rachel picking kira up so i thought it was cool that kira knew. Also just helena and donnie scenes. Him slowly walking away made me laugh pretty hard! 

[Mumbles]

Quote

I don't get Rachel's zen-thing 

It reminds me of Ariana Huffington and her bag of bullshit.

I kinda liked this episode. Any episode where Helena talks about her sistras and her behbehs is okay by me. And yeah, I love watching Donnie with her.  And the psyche-out at the school was fun.

[tennisgurl]

Oh my God poor MK! That was fucking BRUTAL! Just awful. Ferdinand has kind of been played for comedy in the past, but this episode really hits us again with the fact that this guy is all kinds of evil.

Honestly, I have no idea what is going on at this point, I have no clue who any of these factions are, and I especially cant keep track of which bad guy is working for which shadowy organization. I'm just here because I'm invested in the characters and want to see how it all ends. I love the characters, so I honestly don't mind that the plot is convoluted and pretty stupid, I just like the main cast so much. Also, I'm going to keep watching until they tell me someone tells what the hell Orphan Black actually means.

Also brutal? Helena stabbing the hospital lady in the face. Like, damn Helena. I know she's pretty unstable, but good lord.

I do like that they are letting Kira has some of her own character now. As far as TV kids go, Kira is certainly pretty decent, but she has never had much of an identity outside of Sarah's sweet daughter, so I like seeing that she has some real curiosity about her own origins, and that she is kind of over her moms rash plans. I cant imagine her going full #TeamRachel though. Even a kid can eventually see that Aunt Rachel is super creepy.

[AftermathTV]

47 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Also, I'm going to keep watching until they tell me someone tells what the hell Orphan Black actually means.

We've known that since the Season 1 finale. Sarah's an Orphan who was hidden in the black along with Helena.

[LittleIggy]

I have no problems with what Helena did to that doctor since she was apparently going to do an amnio on Helena without her consent. Helena needed to get out. 

I knew Westmoreland was bad when I realized it was Stephen Mc Hattie playing him. That guy always plays villains.

The girl that plays Kyra sure has a puffy face now. Is she on a cortisone therapy?

[possibilities]

4 hours ago, Kaboom 2.0 said:

Art's new partner annoys me to no end. Any guesses as to when she'll end up buried in the Hendrix garage? 

Well, Alison has firearms. And Helena may come home to do a little family defense massacre. And they'd have to make the body disappear because Art's partner is a cop, and no question her people there and Neo in general would come looking.

Helena stabbing the amnio woman is going to make Alison a wanted woman. They registered under her name, and she assaulted a hospital employee.

I hope they don't shift to having Alison on the run, now that Sarah is grounded.

This show is so much better as something other than a fugitive thriller.

I was very upset by the murder of MK. Not only that she died, which is painful and sad. They've had other deaths on the show which were also painful and sad but I didn't object the way I do to this one. The way it happened was really disgusting. I don't think any of the other deaths on the show have seemed so flatly exploitative and pointless. It's as though they thought it made a juicy scene. Torture porn both literally and figuratively. I strenuously object. Stomping her on the chest while she lay there weak and terrified... unacceptable. And for what?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

13 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Ok, so I'm still suspicious of the true nature of PT. Now Cosima seems on board with him? She was smiling at the end of their scene, which is the second clone that seems to be under PT's influence. I'm going to blame the wine. Maybe it's my paranoia, but I still suspect some mind control influence.

I don't think she's on board with PT, but she's also not going to turn down the opportunity to get answers since she's still on the island. She refused to go with Sarah because she wanted to get to the bottom of things. What PT offered her was the chance to do it with more access to all the data he has collected so that she doesn't have to sneak around to do it (or at least not as much sneaking around since I have no doubt she'll still be breaking into places she's not supposed to be!). I think her smile at the end was not to indicate that she's now under his influence now but that she knows he has a lot of the information she wants and he is giving her access to at least some of it (I am suspicious of him too so I don't think that he's giving her access to everything). They're each getting something they want out of this deal so it's not that Cosima is blindly following him now. She's just happy that it will be slightly easier for her to get her hands on what she wants.

12 hours ago, natyxg said:

Ferdinand knew he was killing MK, he even called her Vera. She's got the burned face, it's pretty hard to miss. He was acting out a Rachel revenge fantasy against her because she was wearing similar clothes and a wig (and is her clone, of course), while at the same time taking revenge on MK herself because she screwed him over and took his money.

Yes to all of this. He definitely know it was MK (he also mentioned how she stole his money) but he was getting two for the price of one revenge when he killed her because she had the Rachel wig on. He said as much before he stomped her (something like "two fantasies in one").

[MissLucas]

Helena stabbing the Doctor should not make Allison a wanted woman for too long as she is obviously not pregnant with twins. She'd have to come up with a good cover story though (husband ran off with unstable twin or something like that).

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

I have no problems with what Helena did to that doctor since she was apparently going to do an amnio on Helena without her consent. Helena needed to get out.…

I thought it was perhaps a highly skilled maneuver to incapacitate (and terrify) the victim (and prevent her from alarming others?) without causing any permanent physical harm, but I don't really know.

[AftermathTV]

Not sure why Matty (yeah nobody confuse me with the Maddie spelling ever again, because I had it right) is being called Scarecrow. Is that a fan nickname I'm missing the meaning behind?

[Ailianna]

6 hours ago, possibilities said:

I was very upset by the murder of MK. Not only that she died, which is painful and sad. They've had other deaths on the show which were also painful and sad but I didn't object the way I do to this one. The way it happened was really disgusting. I don't think any of the other deaths on the show have seemed so flatly exploitative and pointless. It's as though they thought it made a juicy scene. Torture porn both literally and figuratively. I strenuously object. Stomping her on the chest while she lay there weak and terrified... unacceptable. And for what?

As upsetting as MK's death was, I think it 00% fit in with several of the themes of this show, whcih has been so much about not only diversity and acceptance, but about the struggle of women to own their own lives and their own bodies.  If she were at full strength, she probably could have fought him longer, but his strength and size would probably have beaten her down--and possibly with a lot more nastiness and violence.  This was a scene that didn't have to be in a show about clones or genetic testing--it could be a scene in any show that depicts an abusive relationship (even when they were happy, Rachel and Ferdinand weren't too healthy).  This is the kind of violence that Vic might have used (remember season 1?), and that many real women face.  The producers and writers ave always said that this show is about women struggling to control their own destinies and their bodies, but in this case, MK wasn't able to maintain that control, and she lost.  In some ways, it ups the stakes, because it wasn't some strange genetic disease that killed her, and it wasn't the shadowy conspiracy that killed her--it was one man's anger and desire to prove he was stronger than the women he felt had wronged him.  And that's part of the female experience too.  Not a good part, but I'm glad the show didn't shy away from it or gloss it over as something less horrible than it was.  And I think that was the point.

Helena's objection to forced medical treatment "for her own good" (I'm still undecided if the doctor was Neolution or just thought she knew better than her patient) was part of the same theme.

On a different note, every time (EVERY time) I watch the credits, I see Tatiana Maslany, Jordan Gavaris, Kevin Hanchard (The Sarah crew), then Kristian Bruin comes up, and for a second I wonder why Alison won't be in the episode(!), then Ari Millen and Josh Vokey come up and I wonder why Rachel and Cosima--and then I remember they were all the first credit I read.  Five years in, and part of me STILL forgets it's all one actress!

[TaraS1]

14 hours ago, msani19 said:

Art's partner is annoying in how much she's eating the scenery which I guess is the entire point of her character but *eye roll*.

I kind of get the feeling she was a student at the Evie Cho School of Acting.

12 hours ago, Kaboom 2.0 said:

I've seen some really disturbing shit on tv shows over the years but Ferdinand murdering MK in a (to him) Rachel-induced rage ranks right up there. Here's to hoping she left Scott and/or the Rabbit Hole's proprietor her hard drives, etc, to continue working on behalf of the sestras. 

I thought I'd watched enough Game of Thrones to be desensitized to most brutal deaths, but I had to look away when he was stomping her.  I didn't even care about MK, but that was awful.

Count me in with everyone else who just wants to see our sestras (and Felix!) together one of these days.

[Captanne]

Is there an unpopular opinion thread yet?  I cant' stand Kira.  Yeah.  No.

Also, Jesus, show, I could take the needle through the face because -- Helena.   But having Ferdinand stomp MK to death?  On her sternum?  With his foot and leg like a pile driver through her?  And the anger was off the charts.  (Well done, actor?)  

Rachel's wig went through bouts of ter-ri-ble.  Wow.  Awful wig.  (It was intended to be fake looking on Sarah.  That's not what I mean.)  

LOVE the actor who is playing Professor Westmoreland.  He was Gabriel in the 1980s Beauty and the Beast.  He's wonderfully creepy and seductive.  

 

ETA:  Maslany's range never fails to impress me.  She's sexual (Rachel), she's being torn away from her daughter at her daughter's behest (Sarah), she's being beaten to death (MK), she's being smarty smart and cunning (Cosima), and she's being defensively both maternal and utterly ruthless (Helena.)  All in 45 minutes of airtime.  

Edited June 19, 2017 by Captanne

[Macbeth]

1 hour ago, Ailianna said:

As upsetting as MK's death was... The producers and writers ave always said that this show is about women struggling to control their own destinies and their bodies, but in this case, MK wasn't able to maintain that control, and she lost.  In some ways, it ups the stakes, because it wasn't some strange genetic disease that killed her, and it wasn't the shadowy conspiracy that killed her--it was one man's anger and desire to prove he was stronger than the women he felt had wronged him.  And that's part of the female experience too.  Not a good part, but I'm glad the show didn't shy away from it or gloss it over as something less horrible than it was.  And I think that was the point.

Helena's objection to forced medical treatment "for her own good" (I'm still undecided if the doctor was Neolution or just thought she knew better than her patient) was part of the same theme.

 

I agree 100% - and while the doctor represented herself as a caring person at first - the fact that she was insisting on the amnio, even after saying the baby's wound was gone, against Helena's will, was also part of a woman's experience that her body is not her own. 

I don't think she was neolution - I think she wanted to figure out, for her own intellectual needs, what was going on with Helena's babies, without any respect to Helena's boundaries.

The doctor, unlike so many of Helena's victims, lived.  She just had what she was about to do to Helena done to her.  And the fact we saw the needle in the doctor's mouth after Helena punctured her cheek - was to show the audience how invasive that needle really was.

[rur]

10 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

The girl that plays Kyra sure has a puffy face now. Is she on a cortisone therapy?

Lots of times children get . . . rounder before a growth spurt. I think the young actress is around the right age for that.

[Bouffe]

On June 18, 2017 at 10:04 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I continue to love Donnie and Helena's relationship, so I'm bummed that she's hiding on her own again.

At the beginning of the episode when Sarah was video conferencing with everyone, I thought why in the holy hell is everyone cooperating with Rachel/Dyad? So it was good to watch the rest of the episode unfold and see that it wasn't sincere. I think Alison is the one who is cooperating with the least amount of subterfuge or ulterior motive, but that's because (1) she doesn't want Scarecrow beating up Art and (2) she has no idea where Donnie and Helena are. Even so, it's clear that she's just treading water until at least one of those two conditions changes. Until then, there isn't much she can do so she's stuck waiting.

Loved that as soon as the door closed, Mrs. S, Felix, and Sarah sprang into action (complete with the vacuum cleaner in case the house was bugged). I appreciate all the effort they went through to get Sarah and Kira out of Dyad's reach, but they never took into account what Kira wants, which is to go to school like a normal kid and to find out why she's the way that she is. She is old enough to realize that she's different and as much as I loathe seeing her with Rachel's smug face, Kira will never find all the answers she wants on her own. Despite that, of course I understand why Sarah doesn't want them having access to Kira. There's no way she can trust them after everything that's been done to her and her sestras.

Poor MK. She knew that Ferdinand was going to kill her and she accepted her fate. I really wanted her to inflict some damage on him though. I knew that in her weakened state, there was no way that she could overpower or kill Ferdinand, but I was hoping that she'd at least get a few shots in and make him hurt.

Ha, when Charlotte said that everyone on the island takes vitamins, I was with Cosima when she removed the paper cups from their trays and said they wouldn't be taking them. I was already paranoid about Cosima eating the food there and drinking wine with PT. When he offered he full access to the lab so she could go back to doing research, it sounded suspiciously like what Leakey offered her back in S1.  I know I'm probably nitpicking, but when PT used the word "remarkable" to describe the clones right after Helena's neonatal specialist referred to the injured fetus that was no longer injured as remarkable, I thought dun dun duuuuuun. I don't blame Helena at all for being suspicious of everyone at the hospital and all the tests they wanted to do.

I can't wait to hear what Delphine thinks Sarah can't hear (but Mrs. S can).

We pretty much saw the episode the same way.

I just didn't get why all the sestras were collaborating so easily and willingly with Rachel. And then it became obvious they were just playing along so that Sarah could be freed. I also am not sure Art's new partner is to be trusted, and how Art's involvement with the sestras has changed.

I hated, hated, HATED how they killed MK. And all for nothing. I couldn't even watch the scene. Rachel needs to punish the guy. And not the way he likes to be punished.

The whole Charlotte, Cosima and PT stuff had me on the edge of my seat, for some reason. I was suspicious of the vitamins, the wine and the same words PT and the hospital worker tending to Helena spoke stood out to me.

Speaking of Helena, I think she was justified in being suspicious. An amnio is an elective procedure, and Helena knew that. I think the hospital worker Helena stabbed in the cheek is Neo. Not Neonatal, but Neolution.

Oh forgot to mention:

I don't blame Kira for wanting to explore her relationship with Rachel and maybe get some answers. She must "feel" her like she did all the sestras. I understand why an how it breaks Sarah's heart, but what else can she do?

I still don't trust Delphine and her "you can't tell anyone" stuff.

Helena busting out of the hospital in her hospital gown with her butt showing was hilarious (and so Helena!)

[Bouffe]

19 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

The one thing I appreciated in the episode (beside the acting) was the alley where Sarah was hiding with all the luscious graffiti. Does anyone know about the place where it was shot?

 

That's Graffiti Alley, in Toronto, Ontario. The whole series was shot in and around Toronto.

[LittleIggy]

4 hours ago, Captanne said:

Is there an unpopular opinion thread yet?  I cant' stand Kira.  Yeah.  No.

Not unpopular with me. I can't stand her either. Doesn't help that the kid is not a good actress.

[Bouffe]

12 hours ago, possibilities said:

I was very upset by the murder of MK. Not only that she died, which is painful and sad. They've had other deaths on the show which were also painful and sad but I didn't object the way I do to this one. The way it happened was really disgusting. I don't think any of the other deaths on the show have seemed so flatly exploitative and pointless. It's as though they thought it made a juicy scene. Torture porn both literally and figuratively. I strenuously object. Stomping her on the chest while she lay there weak and terrified... unacceptable. And for what?

I didn't like it either. I actually couldn't watch after the first blow. But after reading your comment, I wonder if the fact MK's death was pointless was why it had to happened, in this horrible way? Maybe the fact that MK sacrificed herself for Sarah and the rest of her sestras, when it really wasn't necessary, will finally help Sarah open her eyes and make her stop running? That and Kira? Who knows.

[tennisgurl]

I don't at all think anyone is cooperating with the Rachel and her new bunch of weirdoes. I didn't think they were even being that subtle about the fact that they were all just biding their time until they get the advantage against them, or to keep each other safe. These guys don't know who they're messing with.

[beedub]

16 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

I knew Westmoreland was bad when I realized it was Stephen Mc Hattie playing him. That guy always plays villains.

Or morally grey characters. He was the original leader of the vampire hunters (under a ton of makeup) in The Strain. But if you want to see him at his best, check out the great, underrated Bruce McDonald psych/horror film Pontypool. (Yes, it's Canadian.)

5 hours ago, Bouffe said:

That's Graffiti Alley, in Toronto, Ontario.

It's just behind Queen Street. Here it is on a map. Come visit!

8 hours ago, Captanne said:

 Rachel's wig went through bouts of ter-ri-ble.  Wow.  Awful wig.  (It was intended to be fake looking on Sarah.  That's not what I mean.)  

Yeah, in the scene at Dyad, I was saying how there was all kinds of daylight showing through the back of that wig. What up??

8 hours ago, Captanne said:

Is there an unpopular opinion thread yet?  I cant' stand Kira.  Yeah.  No.

It's a classic case of casting a very young "actor" (required only to look cute and deliver a smattering of lines) who then has the audacity to get older and still be in the show. It's not like they were originally chosen for their thespian skills, but as time goes on their talent or lack thereof becomes more apparent. Kudos at least to OB for not committing the heinous crime of recasting the child between seasons (see The Strain above).

I too found MK's manner of death repulsive and perhaps too much. But storywise, the rage makes sense, as the last time we saw these two characters together MK had Ferdinand tied to a chair that was about to explode while he was forced to transfer a large amount of funds to her account (if I'm not mistaken). So apart from the weirdness of including Rachel in his assault, there's a basis there for directing so much anger at MK. Still, unforgivable. Comeuppance, please.

On a personal note, at least the bear logo I did for MK made one last appearance, on her shirt (apparently available at Hot Topic), but I kind of feel bad that it ended up functioning as a target for Ferdinand.

Edited June 19, 2017 by beedub

[shapeshifter]

If this episode had aired in time to be included, it would have easily won Worst Death Scene in the Previouslies.

[Bort]

16 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

If this episode had aired in time to be included, it would have easily won Worst Death Scene in the Previouslies.

Best Death. Worst Death is for one that makes you feel nothing. But we can jot it down for next year. 

[thuganomics85]

Late for this episode, but I didn't miss much, I see.  I didn't hate it, but it basically felt like filler mainly, with the entire A-plot being Sarah, Mrs. S., and Felix trying to get Kira and themselves out of Rachel's clutches, only for it to all far apart, because Kira wants to stay and "find out who she is", and throws a fit over it.  Eh, I get why she is curious and I can understand why she doesn't want to leave her life, but I just can't trust Rachel.  Not in the slightest.  Kira is probably going to regret this decision.  And even though Sarah was her normal overtly-aggressive self, I still felt bad for her at the end, especially after Kira barely acknowledge her when she left with Rachel.

Well, I guess something significant did happen, with them bringing M.K. back, only to kill her off.  Then again, I figured she was doomed as soon as I saw how sick she was.  But that was brutal.  Ferdinand (James Frain!) is a twisted motherfucker.  I get that it sucks when your lover suddenly isn't interested in your kink anymore, but that doesn't mean you need to stomp a poor woman to death, asshole!  At least Rachel booted his ass, but there is no way this is it for him.  The question is how is he going to effect things as a wildcard.  Still, it sucks about M.K.  They better not harm a hair on my beloved Krystal if/when she returns!

Donnie and Helena were the highlight again.  Bummed that they are already separated, but I loved Helena's escape and Donnie slowly backing out of the room, once she saw what she did. 

Poor Allison being forced into house arrest and not even being able to do her normal activities.  And Art better get a chance to shoot his obnoxious, Dyad partner, before this season wraps up.

Not sure what to make of the Westmoreland stuff, except it's always good to see Stephen McHattie.

Hopefully they'll move things forward next week.  Delphine showing up to Mrs. S.'s house was a good way to end things, at least.

Edited June 20, 2017 by thuganomics85

[kieyra]

I'm not good at following this show anymore, but every time someone says "P.T.", I immediately think of PT Barnum, as in "there's a sucker born every minute", so I'm expecting he'll turn out to be a sham/snake oil salesman sooner or later.

I just remembered Kira's dad existed in this show before he went off to be Daario in GoT, so I guess I'll go find out what happened to him and why Kira couldn't just live with him ... a long time ago. (Not a fan of magical-child stories.)

Edited June 20, 2017 by kieyra

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, kariyaki said:

Best Death. Worst Death is for one that makes you feel nothing. But we can jot it down for next year. 

Cool.
Meanwhile, in the Bizzarro world of the Shapeshifterlies, it will be classified as and win the award for Worst Death
—although the centipede that was still wiggling after it left a smear mark in my bath tub might have disagreed.