Jump to content
Forums forums
PRIMETIMER
Tara Ariano

S01.E10: Night

Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I don't hate Nick.  I think people don't want this show to have a love triangle, kind of a cliche trope to sink to that level.  For some odd reason though, it's not bothering me as much as I thought it would, IF that is where they go.  They are not in any kind of normal situation here, and I don't have a problem with either of them developing feelings for one another, because after years of insane society and cruelty and pain?  You finally have someone relating to you as a person?  Seems pretty logical to me, for both of them.

The stoning was for endangering a child, not trying to kill herself.

I think the show has shown a nice snapshot of that Martha, and explains it all.  She was distant from June because she had been close to the previous Offred, and was obviously devastated when she hung herself.  Her own child was dead, so having another child born was important to her.  She's, in spite of herself trying to remain distant, become closer to June anyway.

Mainly though?  June had no other options.  Who else could she possibly tell about the letters?  Sooner or later they would be found, so this gamble was worth it.  In spite of everything, she really doesn't know if she can trust Nick.  She doesn't know if this is escape or death right now.  The Martha was the only option to save all those women's words.

All of the Serena/June interactions were stellar in Night!  Major payoffs there. 

Right but Janine would have died in the lake, they rescued her to kill her because they wanted to control the narrative of her death 

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, dmc said:

Right but Janine would have died in the lake, they rescued her to kill her because they wanted to control the narrative of her death 

That was not the reason for her stoning though.

Attempted suicide would probably lose you a body part, they would still want your womb.  Kidnapping and threatening to kill a child though?  You are done.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
6 hours ago, rubinia said:

The girl-power-Nina-Simone-music slo-mo made me cringe.

I feel like the Waterfords would have put up more of a stink about their pregnant handmaid being taken away.

Rita? The Martha? Because Offred is pregnant.

Thank you 

4 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

That was not the reason for her stoning though.

Attempted suicide would probably lose you a body part, they would still want your womb.  Kidnapping and threatening to kill a child though?  You are done.

But why save her to kill her she would have died in the lake

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
8 minutes ago, dmc said:

Thank you 

But why save her to kill her she would have died in the lake

This is the first time the leadership is doing any of this. They have only been in power for a little over 3 years I think. They are just making it up as these things get thrown at them I bet.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post

If Janine was allowed to successfully kill herself, that's a choice she made and something she did under her own power.  The narrative will be that She Did It. Gilead seeks to strip even that from a handmaid.  They're to be utterly compliant wombs with no will of their own.

I too stumbled a little bit on the idea that the Waterfords wouldn't be screaming to everyone that Offred is pregnant.  That surely would have warranted some delay and discussion and maybe some phone calls while whoever actually sent the men in black figured out their next move.

  • Like 21

Share this post


Link to post
5 minutes ago, Kuther2000 said:

This is the first time the leadership is doing any of this. They have only been in power for a little over 3 years I think. They are just making it up as these things get thrown at them I bet.

This makes sense

3 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

If Janine was allowed to successfully kill herself, that's a choice she made and something she did under her own power.  The narrative will be that She Did It. Gilead seeks to strip even that from a handmaid.  They're to be utterly compliant wombs with no will of their own.

I too stumbled a little bit on the idea that the Waterfords wouldn't be screaming to everyone that Offred is pregnant.  That surely would warranted some delay and discussion and maybe some phone calls while whoever actually sent the men in black figured out their next move.

It has to be this because they could have just left her there

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
18 minutes ago, dmc said:

But why save her to kill her she would have died in the lake

It's not unheard of for brutal regimes to nurse an injured "enemy" to health and then to execute them publicly to make an example of them.

I was only surprised that they did it to Janine because she was one of the few Handmaids who's given birth to a healthy baby under the Gilead regime. I thought they'd keep raping her in the hopes of producing more children, and just keep a much closer watch on her from now on.

Edited by chocolatine
  • Like 19

Share this post


Link to post
10 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

It's not unheard of for brutal regimes to nurse an injured "enemy" to health and then to execute them publicly to make an example of them.

I was only surprised that they did it to Janine because she was one of the few Handmaids who's given birth to a healthy baby under the Gilead regime. I thought they'd keep raping her in the hopes of producing more children, and just keep a much closer watch on her from now on.

Maybe to teach the girls a lesson they picked her

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

They probably thought it would serve as a warning to other Housemaids, "Don't try to steal your baby back!"

I agree about the absurdity of not screaming "she is pregnant!" except I think the whole black market pregnancy test thing was supposed to imply they couldn't possibly know that yet.  Ditto when June supposedly lost her baby, why didn't June say, "I think it was the beating?"  instead of silently take the blame and be locked in her room?

  • Like 12

Share this post


Link to post

This is where it would have been really helpful at some point during the season to clue us in whether tests are allowed at all or whether they determine pregnancy simply by a missed period or what.  Other than Nick dealing black market pee sticks at Jezebels (which I guess means they skipped a particular book detail about how they handled that there), we simply don't know.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Just now, nodorothyparker said:

This is where it would have been really helpful at some point during the season to clue us in whether tests are allowed at all or whether they determine pregnancy simply by a missed period or what.  Other than Nick dealing black market pee sticks at Jezebels (which I guess means they skipped a particular book detail about how they handled that there), we simply don't know.

Well, we know now.  June said "probably black market" when she told Nick.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, AnswersWanted said:

Moira was shell-shocked as she was given things that had nothing to do with her gender or sex, that had nothing to do with her diminished social role, that weren't plants or traps that would spell her doom.

Your whole post really summed Moira's final scenes up perfectly. I got choked up again! 

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post
59 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

This is where it would have been really helpful at some point during the season to clue us in whether tests are allowed at all or whether they determine pregnancy simply by a missed period or what.  Other than Nick dealing black market pee sticks at Jezebels (which I guess means they skipped a particular book detail about how they handled that there), we simply don't know.

I think I kind of suspected it the first time when they were all hovering over Offred asking about her symptoms.  At the time I thought, "just pee on a stick" and then realized, "oh yeah..." 

God didn't invent pee sticks so they must be evil.  Anything not biblical as far as reproduction isn't allowed there.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

Well, that was...fine? I found the first half, with the face off between June and Serena Joy, far more compelling than the second. I sense that I was supposed to be very moved and inspired by the rock dropping scene. I was not. Always a bummer when a show displays a smug self-satisfaction over a moment that didn't actually work. Maybe if they'd pelted the rocks at Aunt Lydia and the guards, it would have felt like the big rebellion they wanted it to be. 

I also thought the way they got to the ending was weird. It felt abrupt and disconnected from what came before. Missing some connective tissue. 

I think overall my reaction is kind of a shrug. Which sucks, because I was all in on this show at the start. 

Edited by stagmania
  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post

I really enjoyed this episode and this show as a whole. I'm not bothered by some of the more dramatic "girl power" moments; they were exaggerated, but I think they were supposed to be. I guess I've viewed a lot of this season as June slowly discovering the ways she could regain power and control in a society that wanted nothing more than to control her. Many of them are really small, and aren't really that triumphant to us, but things like figuring out how to manipulate the commander to beat Serena Joy and get out of the house would be monumentous to her. And openly defying Aunt Lydia and the Guardians? I'd be feeling good and strutting down the street, too, even if I knew I'd be horribly punished later. The tiniest sparks of hope, the tiniest displays of defiance, can grow into something much larger. I don't know; that's just my view. :)

I also don't think it makes much sense to show killing men yet. I think that will start next season. This was about June's journey and establishing the broader world of Gilead, but this society is still very new, and everyone is still terrified and disoriented. We only just saw the handmaids discovering they might have power as an "army," though perhaps they won't be a militant one. Plus, it's only a matter of time before the some rung of this society, thirsty for power and thinking they are better, know better, can do better, ousts the founders, and so on, and so on. "There is only power, and those too weak to seek it," to quote movie Voldemort, and this society is just the power hungry seeking power and disguising their greed and hypocrisy in piousness. They rule based on violence, they teach violence, they make violence the norm--and thus violent will likely be their ends. "Impaled on your own sword, eh, Gilderoy?", as it were.

Sorry, been rereading Harry Potter.

At any rate, I thought the show captured the spirit of the novel and I enjoyed getting to know more about the world and the other characters (I'm so, so glad Moira made it out). I was skeptical about season 2 when it was announced--didn't know how they'd do it--but I'm all in after this episode.

  • Like 15

Share this post


Link to post

Re: Moira's family--she was married at some point, I don't recall if we ever learned her wife's name, but Moira mentioned that she'd been declared an "unwoman" and shipped to the colonies. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
51 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

I think I kind of suspected it the first time when they were all hovering over Offred asking about her symptoms.  At the time I thought, "just pee on a stick" and then realized, "oh yeah..." 

God didn't invent pee sticks so they must be evil.  Anything not biblical as far as reproduction isn't allowed there.

I never ever thought of that scene in those terms, but now I can see it.  At the time we knew Serena Joy had never had a child and being a Martha, probably assumed the same thing about Rita.  So to me it read like two women who'd never had the experience but maybe had read about it when that was still allowed nonetheless treating June like a child who didn't know her own body.   I remember mostly thinking how mortifying that had to be for June, since we're schooled from the time we're young that talking about our periods or lack of them is something we only do with the women closest to us, which definitely wouldn't be Rita or Serena Joy.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, Pachengala said:

Thank god for this! I was beginning to think I'm crazy because I thought this ep was the schmaltzy, crap-cherry on top of what's been a rapidly worsening series--a series that started so strong too. It's like the showrunner decided that the source material's just too depressing, darn it, and you know what this Handmaid's Tale needs? Some hope and grrrl power! I was rolling my eyes through the whole thing--'we're an army, yeah!'--and yelling at my poor husband about it. Hope he doesn't have me sent to the Colonies. [/unpopular opinion]

I guess it's you and me. I really did not like the second half of this episode, or the last several weeks. And I feel oddly guilty for not liking it, I think because this show feels important, or at least like it should be. 

Edited by stagmania
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
6 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Speaking of which, I laughed at seeing that the words "Yours to discover" on the licence plate weren't enough to tip her off as to the province. Americans.

I honestly felt like they went with "Ontario" because if she showed up in Quebec and people were speaking French, too many Americans would have been confused.

8 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I can buy Moira making it across the border. I figured she crossed a frozen pond into Canada.

Just to be clear, the "pond" she would have had to cross into Ontario is the St. Lawrence River... or one of the Great Lakes, or Niagara Falls. It's a maritime border. 

  • Like 10

Share this post


Link to post

I'm not sure what to think of this episode.  There were some things I liked, and the non-dark cinematography was excellent, but other parts just didn't work for me.  It felt to me like the writers/show runners were walking a tight rope between trying to finish the story but still wanting to be able to have a 2nd season (I've recently developed a new pet peeve: shows based on books that try to extend past the books.  I'm not saying it can't work, but I don't think it is especially good idea.  I don't think there is anything wrong with telling a story over one season and letting it be).

One other detail that stuck out to me: When Warren was in front of the--what? tribunal?--and he apologized for his "lust" and how it went against God, his country, and his "brothers."  He did not, however, mention how it went against his wife.  Heh.

  • Like 18

Share this post


Link to post
16 minutes ago, LaChavalina said:

I honestly felt like they went with "Ontario" because if she showed up in Quebec and people were speaking French, too many Americans would have been confused.

Just to be clear, the "pond" she would have had to cross into Ontario is the St. Lawrence River... or one of the Great Lakes, or Niagara Falls. It's a maritime border. 

 

Yes I know it's a maritime border. I live in the US, granted I live in Southern California but I have some knowledge of the northeastern borders. There are the Great Lakes and the St Lawrence River  When I say "pond",  I mean more like one of the narrow sections of the river where there are some islands between the US and Canadian side.  She could have crossed the frozen section, and made it a small island. And found another way.

I doubt the Gilead border patrol would think anyone was crazy enough to try crossing a narrow frozen body of water.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Quote

It's not unheard of for brutal regimes to nurse an injured "enemy" to health and then to execute them publicly to make an example of them.

In the US, death row prisoners have been revived from suicide attempts just days before their execution date, eg David Long (TX).

  • Like 18

Share this post


Link to post

Wow... So much to unpack. 

What, to me, is the thing that stands out to me, that I found most compelling, the thing I looked forward to the most: Samira Wiley and her job playing Moira. Less to the writers who did a lot of hand waving in telling her tale. We got a Luke episode, I would have enjoyed a Moira episode. We'll never see it because it has no point in moving the story, but I have a desire to see how much Moira tells him about June. The nightmare existence they both endured. How can you possibly convey that? I want Moira to meet up with the mute refugee. 

Serena, you truly are an evil cunt. The utter depravity of what she did, the callousness of it. How on earth can you do that to another woman and then have the audacity to tell her to not get upset? I want to see her comeuppance and perhaps we will next season... but that ever yawning abyss that is her life: good. Totally brutal of me, but strong schadenfreude to see SJ and Fred, him trying to reconcile and her just grasping at the hope of June's baby - having it so close within their grasp and to have it just disintegrate in their hands. They deserved none of it. 

I loved, loved, loved the scene with Luke and Moira. 

So the big punishment for Commanders that rape their handmaids outside of the martial bed is getting their hand cut off? Unbelievable. Did he lose his position too? His status? 

But my favorite is the all powerful Commander that we've seen a few times - Commander Pryce. The zealot, the one who believes with all his heart. The one who would want to see Jezebel's razed to the ground, who never showed his face in there. Notice the smirking at the table? Some of those people saw Cmmd Putnam at Jezebel's. 

Janine continues to break my heart. "Not too hard." I was expecting June to tell her the passage about throwing the first stone. Nice call back to the lesson of how to apologize to Aunt Lydia. Nice to see them stand up for one another, but I'm curious what the consequences will be for all of them? 

When June was laying there in a sea of other women's words... it was the first time I was genuinely angry at her. She can play it fast and lose with what few choices she has about her life. But her unraveling them all, lying there absorbing them she was essentially silencing them. It was so deeply selfish and thoughtless. What she could have undone if they are found... 

...which they were! Now, some thoughts about Rita. We know that Offred was with SJ and Fred for at least four months. In the beginning she was cold and almost hostile towards June. And we saw how distraught and hurt she was when the first Offred killed herself. But I remember the first time she cracked with real warmth toward June - when June was in the bath and was told that SJ wanted to see her "Awesome." And Rita smiled, then chuckled. At the end I think there was a growing sense of fondness one for the other. 

I'm looking forward to the next season, seeing this world expanded and hopefully seeing more from the other Handmaid's. Not sure how they'll do it, but I've enjoyed this season so I'll trust them on the next one. Just turn up the damn lights. 

  • Like 12

Share this post


Link to post

It looked like to me he lost both hands.

The scene where Serena Joy was waiting for the results was all kinds of awesome. Yes she's a selfish bitch, but the actress killed it in that scene.  When she threatened June, all I could think was she was asking JJune to tdo the impossible - guarantee a healthy baby, and if that baby didn't come out full term and healthy....Hannah would be hurt.  I thought Hannah was at a rich person's house. She wouldn't be being trained to be a handmaid there.  They would raise them to be wives.

That was the first time I liked Nick.  I also think Aunt LYdia knew about the pregnancy and that is why she stopped them.  SJ wouldn't allow a repeat of the situation where Aunt Lydia zapped June and possible caused her to miscarry.

  • Like 10

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

This is where it would have been really helpful at some point during the season to clue us in whether tests are allowed at all or whether they determine pregnancy simply by a missed period or what.  Other than Nick dealing black market pee sticks at Jezebels (which I guess means they skipped a particular book detail about how they handled that there), we simply don't know.

Well, didn't they assume she was pregnant in the earlier episode because her period was quite late? So if she IS pregnant now, her period would have also been late, and they could have used that as their reasoning if they couldn't mention the test.

In any case, I just thought they might be a little more frantic than "After everything we did for you."

Edited by rubinia
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
7 hours ago, Stiggs said:

 I certainly don't feel like he was raping June - even the first time. I think he felt victimized by that as well.

Agree. In this, as she does in her matrimonial bed, SJ was the rapist. 

 

7 hours ago, Stiggs said:

I'm assuming everyone Moira could mark down as "family" is dead. If she had a girlfriend, who knows if she was killed as a gender traitor before or during the red centers. I also think that when she was asked about family, Moira seemed to still be in shock. I don't know if she could remember her own name at that point. 

Something about this scene was bugging me and you clued me in on what. The in take officer. Yes, he was warm and gracious and as helpful as he could be. But we're years into this - too many women who ran and survived would be seeking out positions of support for Handmaids who escaped. They would be driven to the work to help them process and provide a better reception, better sensitivity. There would be a network already growing (and perhaps gaining international traction?)... pure speculation. But it just seemed a little off. 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
35 minutes ago, Ripley68 said:

It looked like to me he lost both hands.

The scene where Serena Joy was waiting for the results was all kinds of awesome. Yes she's a selfish bitch, but the actress killed it in that scene.  When she threatened June, all I could think was she was asking JJune to tdo the impossible - guarantee a healthy baby, and if that baby didn't come out full term and healthy....Hannah would be hurt.  I thought Hannah was at a rich person's house. She wouldn't be being trained to be a handmaid there.  They would raise them to be wives.

I don't know how they are going to get more Handmaids if they are raising the children to be wives. Will the commanders want their children to be handmaids? In a system like the one they are creating how will they decide.

3 minutes ago, TheNewJanBrady said:

How did Rita know the letters were behind the tub?

June told her when she hugged her as she was leaving. I get the feeling she trusts Rita. I do too. There is nothing that really shows us she shouldn't.

Edited by Kuther2000 · Reason: Spelling error
  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
34 minutes ago, Ripley68 said:

The scene where Serena Joy was waiting for the results was all kinds of awesome. Yes she's a selfish bitch, but the actress killed it in that scene. 

Ho. Ly. Shit you are right about that. SJ's debasement, just abandoned to that prayer and desperation. Flawless delivery. 

  • Like 11

Share this post


Link to post

When Serena Joy said it wouldn't be their baby, I wanted to pump my hands up triumphantly. I wholeheartedly believe in adoption and adopted parents are real parents but this is not what this is.                I wonder if Serena would have taken Nick into her bed if the commanders could have sex with their wives without the secrecy. She believes wholeheartedly that Fred is the one with the fertility issue. It is quite possible that paired with a fertile male, Serena would have that baby she wanted.

  • Like 11

Share this post


Link to post
7 hours ago, Stiggs said:

Preach! It's been about 25 years for me, but I used to tell my BFF I was going to go to Canada and somehow force Atwood to write a sequel, heh. 

 

Ah - I wonder what the next step is? The other hand, or do they go for a foot? Or a testicle? Hell, why not an ear? Get creative, boys. 

Between Atwood and George RR Martin, I'm excited about follow ups/sequels.  I'm sure we'll have a published follow up book from Atwood before Martin gets The Winds of Winter to his editor.

  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post
22 hours ago, Shaynaa said:

So refugees have better access to healthcare than a hell of a lot of people in the present united states.

Refugees in Canada currently get a health card and drug coverage -- though the drug coverage is a bit controversial since that is something that not all Canadians get (yet - we're working on it!).

12 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Moira just walking into Canada was improbable, but her shell-shocked reaction to finally being treated with kindness and respect just about killed me.

My thoughts exactly. And it was done well enough that I felt unnerved by the kindness too.

7 hours ago, Stiggs said:

 And Moira knows where June is, and she obviously didn't think Luke was alive. That was such a powerful scene.  

Moira knew Luke is alive and in Canada because June told her when they met at Jezebel's. I was surprised she didn't put him down as family, knowing that and presumably wanting to get in touch with him.

5 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

I too stumbled a little bit on the idea that the Waterfords wouldn't be screaming to everyone that Offred is pregnant.  That surely would have warranted some delay and discussion and maybe some phone calls while whoever actually sent the men in black figured out their next move.

I wonder if this will happen in season 2 as a way to get Offred back to the Waterfords.

 

The Ontario license plate confused me at first. My initial reaction was that maybe Moira was near the border - after all, you see cross-border plates all the time. I wondered if this car belonged to someone who could smuggle her out. Then I clued in that there probably wasn't much (any) travel to Gilead from Ontario, but the plates/car looked like they had been there forever so then I thought maybe the car was just abandoned on the US side of the border. Clearly I way overthought things.

Best guess is Moira crossed near Wellesley island? The water is pretty narrow in parts, so I could maybe believe that it froze over. I don't really care though, I thought Samira Wiley was incredible for that whole scene from start to finish. I really do want to see how she got to Canada, though.

  • Like 12

Share this post


Link to post
39 minutes ago, secnarf said:

Best guess is Moira crossed near Wellesley island? The water is pretty narrow in parts, so I could maybe believe that it froze over. I don't really care though, I thought Samira Wiley was incredible for that whole scene from start to finish. I really do want to see how she got to Canada, though.

That's the area I thought about.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

So heaven really IS Canada? My BF was deported to there by his wife, and I'm considering following him. All those GIFTS Moira got just for arriving! I only need a new cell phone!

  The ending was cool. I assume that June was carted away by the Underground and she'll be the new Harriett Tubman! (Eventually she'll even be on money! I call dibs on referring to the upcoming bills as "Tubbies", as in "I've got a Tubby in my wallet and I'm going downtown".) Probably all sorts of miscommunications when Luke and Moira try to rescue her and she has to act as if she wants to stay because she's in the middle of a transfer of someone she cares about, plus her daughter still being around.

  SJ and Fred need to die horribly. Mostly SJ, because she should know better. We're all human, and SHOULD empathize, but there are specific cruelties that each gender and/or subgroup experiences differently, and that commonality SHOULD be a bond.

   I liked the moment of defiance. It was very Spartacus. Again, I take issue with the premise, so it makes the book and series difficult for me to accept. The handmaids ought to be revered for their ability to conceive, and, barring that, at least kept from physical harm/exertion. A throwback Society would likely be one in which a woman who was pregnant would be kept from activity just in case. Feminism pushed for pregnant women to work right up until labor, and encouraged sports and activity further into pregnancy than in "less enlightened" times. SJ knocking June around, and even that gunman punching a woman he did NOT know was NOT pregnant was beyond what should happen given the premise.

 However, accepting the premise, that was a rough scene. I have no empathy for Frau Lydia. She sold out, and harmed a lot of women in the process. Janine, though, had become so childlike that it was made even worse, if that is possible. Even worse, the scene is a reminder that stoning still occurs in parts of the world NOW. And, yes, it's often women.

  Anyway, hope next season is more taking down Gilead, and everyone in it.

  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Kuther2000 said:

When Serena Joy said it wouldn't be their baby, I wanted to pump my hands up triumphantly. I wholeheartedly believe in adoption and adopted parents are real parents but this is not what this is.                I wonder if Serena would have taken Nick into her bed if the commanders could have sex with their wives without the secrecy. She believes wholeheartedly that Fred is the one with the fertility issue. It is quite possible that paired with a fertile male, Serena would have that baby she wanted.

 

These people rape the mothers and then steal the babies that the assaults produce, if possible. They are not fit people let alone fit parents. They are monsters, driven by their own inadequacies and selfishness to get what they want at any cost, not caring about the the true terror, agony, torment, and torture they inflict on the most vulnerable and helpless of victims.

The Gilead system is an affront to humanity and to the god they claim to serve and worship.

I wish it would be revealed that Serena is infertile as well, a proven revelation that I would like to end up having her lowered in status, especially if Fred ever goes down (here's hoping).  Let her be turned into a Martha, a lowly servant in the house of one of the wives she's often lorded herself over to be constantly humiliated.

Or, since she can't serve as a Handmaid herself, I wouldn't mind seeing them give her a whole new role that we've yet to see: a disgraced and "humbled" wife that has lost her husband and has everything else taken away from her. Let her stand in front of that farce of a courtroom and be sentenced as Emily was, muzzled and cuffed.

Normally I wouldn't want such hardship and cruelty to befall a character, especially a totally fictional one, but after watching what she did to June concerning Hannah, I want the character brought down fast and hard. I want her to truly have to face up to the world she helped create, to be fully subjected to the female hell she crafted and shaped and has yet to actually live in.

 

Quote

Something about this scene was bugging me and you clued me in on what. The in take officer. Yes, he was warm and gracious and as helpful as he could be. But we're years into this - too many women who ran and survived would be seeking out positions of support for Handmaids who escaped. They would be driven to the work to help them process and provide a better reception, better sensitivity. There would be a network already growing (and perhaps gaining international traction?)... pure speculation. But it just seemed a little off. 

 

Perhaps it might have been a bit too "cheesy" as it were, but I could envision the Handmaid, still nameless unfortunately, that Luke has been with since their escape working at the center and she could have been the one who intercepted Moira.

It could have been a cool moment, I think, for her to have had no clue who Moira was by looking at her, as Luke probably had lost all access to any family photos or documents, but when taking down Moira's information and hearing her name the woman could have realized the connection and asked Moira if she had even known a couple by the names "June" and "Luke". Then they could have had the Luke and Moira reunion.
 

Edited by AnswersWanted
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, LaChavalina said:

I honestly felt like they went with "Ontario" because if she showed up in Quebec and people were speaking French, too many Americans would have been confused.

Just to be clear, the "pond" she would have had to cross into Ontario is the St. Lawrence River... or one of the Great Lakes, or Niagara Falls. It's a maritime border. 

They speak non stop Russian in long subtitled scenes on The Americans on every episode.  I think we Americans could handle it. 

Aside from that, I'm sure they have their Gilead refugee program down in Canada after years of this issue.  They would have English speakers available, perhaps even refugee volunteers for those first steps.  I think they wanted the slogan on the license plate.  They must know geography, they are fricking filming in this series in Canada. 

Thanks for that though!  I've been in Canada a couple of times, but not in that area, you sent me to Google Maps, and I kind of did a straight N W line from Boston to Ottawa, trying to avoid the lakes, realized she wouldn't go through huge cities to avoid capture and ended up in a place called Johnstown, or near Red Mills on the US side.  Still, I'd have to believe there would be guardians near every single bridge... Also, even the US side is chock full of bodies of water for a great deal of that trip.

Odd that we saw every single inch of Luke's escape, but Moira?  We didn't see her kill the guard, or wound him, we didn't see her drop off the package, we get one silly shot of her in a frozen wasteland with nothing but a thin blanket, which she unaccountably abandons before getting to the old vehicle.  I think I'd be holding on to any blanket I had.

 

4 hours ago, Ripley68 said:

It looked like to me he lost both hands.

The scene where Serena Joy was waiting for the results was all kinds of awesome. Yes she's a selfish bitch, but the actress killed it in that scene.  When she threatened June, all I could think was she was asking JJune to tdo the impossible - guarantee a healthy baby, and if that baby didn't come out full term and healthy....Hannah would be hurt.  I thought Hannah was at a rich person's house. She wouldn't be being trained to be a handmaid there.  They would raise them to be wives.

That was the first time I liked Nick.  I also think Aunt LYdia knew about the pregnancy and that is why she stopped them.  SJ wouldn't allow a repeat of the situation where Aunt Lydia zapped June and possible caused her to miscarry.

I only saw one hand go, but I did close my eyes at one point. 

Anyone else?

I don't think the founders have thought this through.  Just what is the plan here?  I think handmaids only go to the elite ruling families.  Maybe they would marry off the children to other children eventually, or marry off the girls to very deserving soldiers "be issued a woman" as they so charmingly put it on the show.  But then, where would they find handmaids?  Possible book answer that hasn't been covered on the show yet, but may next season (I hope!)

Spoiler

The children of the econowives? 

3 hours ago, TheNewJanBrady said:

How did Rita know the letters were behind the tub?

June told here as they were taking her out.

3 hours ago, Kuther2000 said:

I don't know how they are going to get more Handmaids if they are raising the children to be wives. Will the commanders want their children to be handmaids? In a system like the one they are creating how will they decide.

June told her when she hugged her as she was leaving. I get the feeling she trusts Rita. I do too. There is nothing that really shows us she shouldn't.

Yeah, can't remove quotes anymore here.  Sorry.  I don't think June trusts anyone, but Rita was the only option, and she was the most likely person to be moved by those letters and try to do the right thing.

3 hours ago, Kuther2000 said:

When Serena Joy said it wouldn't be their baby, I wanted to pump my hands up triumphantly. I wholeheartedly believe in adoption and adopted parents are real parents but this is not what this is.                I wonder if Serena would have taken Nick into her bed if the commanders could have sex with their wives without the secrecy. She believes wholeheartedly that Fred is the one with the fertility issue. It is quite possible that paired with a fertile male, Serena would have that baby she wanted.

Maybe if she did that long ago before she helped create this mess.  She should have tried after she finally had sex with Fred a few episodes ago.  I sort of expected that.  Still, as I said at that time, she was willing to risk Nick and June's life on that gamble, but probably not her own.  It's not like she had other options.

 

For non book readers, just so you know, they've pretty much covered everything in the books now on the show.  They've chosen to leave one aspect completely out of the story

Spoiler

econwives who act as a regular wife to non important men and haven't broken any rules but they may show up next season who knows?

Also the book contained an epilogue from the future, which was very revealing, so they haven't covered that either.  

So, that's it as far as book spoilers. 

I read a pure speculation about next season in Sepinwall's review of this episode (linked in Media thread here.)  He speculated that if Mayday did take her away, or even if it really was the Eyes, they may want June to return as a spy on the Waterfords.  We know Nick is an Eye, and also undercover as a spy for that guy who actually seems to believe in all of this for real on the council.  If they decide to keep June in Gilead, that would be one way to do it, make her a "Nick."  Or, if it was Mayday, have her get concrete dirt on Waterford so that true believer guy could have him removed?  The more I think about it, if she is returned to that house, it would have to be real EYE's stuff if the spec ends up being true.

That seems logical, TV show-wise anyway.  It may also fit with the book as it's mentioned there that (HUGE book spoiler!)

Spoiler

Waterford is executed eventually because he harbored a traitor or some words like that.

Edited by Umbelina
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
41 minutes ago, NorthstarATL said:

So heaven really IS Canada? My BF was deported to there by his wife, and I'm considering following him. All those GIFTS Moira got just for arriving! I only need a new cell phone!

  The ending was cool. I assume that June was carted away by the Underground and she'll be the new Harriett Tubman! (Eventually she'll even be on money! I call dibs on referring to the upcoming bills as "Tubbies", as in "I've got a Tubby in my wallet and I'm going downtown".) Probably all sorts of miscommunications when Luke and Moira try to rescue her and she has to act as if she wants to stay because she's in the middle of a transfer of someone she cares about, plus her daughter still being around.

 

I don't understand a thing you said here.

  • Like 12

Share this post


Link to post
9 hours ago, Pachengala said:

Thank god for this! I was beginning to think I'm crazy because I thought this ep was the schmaltzy, crap-cherry on top of what's been a rapidly worsening series--a series that started so strong too. It's like the showrunner decided that the source material's just too depressing, darn it, and you know what this Handmaid's Tale needs? Some hope and grrrl power! I was rolling my eyes through the whole thing--'we're an army, yeah!'--and yelling at my poor husband about it. Hope he doesn't have me sent to the Colonies. [/unpopular opinion]

Right there with you.

The only thing I enjoyed was Ann Dowd. I thought the episode was predictable, overblown, and horribly melodramatic.

On the up side, I'll have a lot more free time next season.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

I thought the middle section of this series had serious issues, and I still don't understand a few choices this show has made.

However, the finale?  Considering they way they set things up in the rather disappointing middle section, I think it was about as good as it could possibly be.

Last episode should have shown more of Moira's escape, not to Luke levels, but still, something to make it more believable, including removing the damn false eyelashes, but given all that middle section crap this was IMO a great finale.  I wasn't expecting much since the show has foundered a bit lately.  I was pleasantly surprised.

The "girl power" thing didn't bother me.  It wasn't some fantastical planned revolution among handmaids, or even overtly disrespectful or blatantly revolutionary (which would have been completely unbelievable for me.)  They didn't raise fists, or throw rocks, or even scream profanity.

They simply couldn't kill the obviously mentally broken girl, one of their own, in such a painful, horrific, personal way.  I think many of them were also there when Janine gave birth, at the very least, they all knew her baby had been born, and probably knew of the suicide attempt and Warren's sickening promises to her that he would take her and the baby away, and the side-sex as well.  Janine came in, waving at people, asking them not to throw too hard.  They couldn't do it.  OfGlen stood up and said that, and I believe ONE of them would have.  After her beating and being removed, June, at the very end of her rope after what she'd been through earlier, followed suit, completely, outwardly at least, respectfully.   They know Janine will still die, but not slowly, not with so much pain, and not by their hands.

At that point, Aunt Lydia blew it and rushed it to stop the soldiers from killing her.  Actually the entire stoning was a huge mistake on the part of Gilead.  They obviously intended to scare the handmaids into never becoming attached to their babies again, but it backfired.  The others found their true selves after that, and the whole power in numbers thing (they wouldn't kill all of them,) and that Lydia was stopping the soldiers.  They came forward as well.

It all seemed completely believable to me, not overblown.  ???

Lydia implied punishment was coming, and it will.

Anyway, the rest of the episode, including Moira in Canada (once she was there) had such amazing scenes.  Rita and the papers.  Every single thing Serena Joy did, including smacking down Fred.  Fred and the council.  The black van pulling up and the real words of Margaret Atwood ending the episode.

I really liked it all.  It was more than I'd hoped for really.  I appreciate that some others didn't, and I even understand it though.

ETA

I think the whole "Feelin' Good" song was about a moment.  They don't get long to feel good, but leaving that stoning and finally saying no?  They got a moment.  They knew retribution would come, they weren't deluded about that tiny amount of power they briefly had. 

Edited by Umbelina
  • Like 15

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, secnarf said:

Refugees in Canada currently get a health card and drug coverage -- though the drug coverage is a bit controversial since that is something that not all Canadians get (yet - we're working on it!).

My thoughts exactly. And it was done well enough that I felt unnerved by the kindness too.

Moira knew Luke is alive and in Canada because June told her when they met at Jezebel's. I was surprised she didn't put him down as family, knowing that and presumably wanting to get in touch with him.

I wonder if this will happen in season 2 as a way to get Offred back to the Waterfords.

 

The Ontario license plate confused me at first. My initial reaction was that maybe Moira was near the border - after all, you see cross-border plates all the time. I wondered if this car belonged to someone who could smuggle her out. Then I clued in that there probably wasn't much (any) travel to Gilead from Ontario, but the plates/car looked like they had been there forever so then I thought maybe the car was just abandoned on the US side of the border. Clearly I way overthought things.

Best guess is Moira crossed near Wellesley island? The water is pretty narrow in parts, so I could maybe believe that it froze over. I don't really care though, I thought Samira Wiley was incredible for that whole scene from start to finish. I really do want to see how she got to Canada, though.

Honestly I just figured she just drove and drove and then ran and ran and ran and ran, and could of been in Canada for awhile, but didn't look until she finally did. My guess is for fear when she did finally look she was still in the states, so she just went way further then necessary and then finally found a place where she could look, I had that thought because she wiped away the bottom part of the license first and we all know the top part is where you can see the state- so she was bracing herself. 

Edited by SiobhanJW
  • Like 16

Share this post


Link to post
Quote

I guess it's you and me. I really did not like the second half of this episode, or the last several weeks. And I feel oddly guilty for not liking it, I think because this show feels important, or at least like it should be

Throw me on the pile. This last episode was particularly disappointing. The Handmaids marching triumphantly at the end was contrived and didn't ring true at all. American Girl was a poor choice in music as I associate it with Silence of the Lambs-a senator's daughter headed toward being beaten and kidnapped by a serial killer.

There are a great many things God didn't invent and it's a little pat to say a pee stick is evil. Giliead is being selective about what it considers evil, as do all governments or autocrats. God didn't invent cars or guns either. It would have been nice for the series to expound a little on some of the rules. Four sex scenes in one episode, but no rules?

The acting, as I've said, is uneven. The actress who played the original OfWarren and Jeanine were terrific, however.

I'm probably not going to be here next season. Can't make me watch over wrought SJW pablum.

So I can end on a positive note. The series was beautifully shot and the visuals were striking. The subject matter was interesting and some of the

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

I don't think June realised how much power she had in that situation in front of the "orphanage". She could have told Serena "If I don't get to hold my child, you'll never get to hold yours either.". I doubt Serena would have had the balls to gamble with "her Baby's" life.

The scene where June found the letters was extremely well acted and emotional. So it seems most handmaids think like her, which really isn't that surprising when you think about it, but you'd probably forget after a while under this opressive regime where everybody plays a part to not get killed.

Also very emotional and well acted was the scene where Moira got to the refugee center in Canada. You could tell how unreal everything there felt to her.

I was afraid that the death penalty victim this time would be Janine, once aunt Lydia talked about endangering a child. Really did not see that open act of rebellion coming though. But when it started I thought it was genius. If all the handmaids unite there isn't much anybody can do. They are precious and can not be replaced. Also some of them are pregnant. If you were to harm them, you'd endanger a child.

I'm also pretty sure that June being taken away at the end is somewhat of a red hering. I think she is taken by the eyes to testify against Fred.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post

Right up until Luke appeared I was watching the Canada scenes as if they were a trick. The thing with the dirt over the license plate felt so staged, as did the big Canadian flags tacked up all over the refugee centre. The pile of lovely things she was handed by the overly cheery man all felt too good to be true and designed to lull her into a false sense of security. Added to the fact that if she was in Canada, she should almost certainly have been in Quebec. I was sure that she had found her way to a centre run by the Eyes designed to get potential escapees to give up information about the underground female road. That fact that she really did get from Boston to Ontario definitely suggests she had help from a network of resistors who were at least able to share information that would help her avoid the Guardians because otherwise it makes no sense for her to have gone so far west when the shortest and geographically easiest route would have been as straight north as possible.

Also once it was clear she really had escaped I couldn't help but wish she had taken the package with her instead of magically managing to make it show up in June's local butchers. The letters couldn't have ended up in a more perfect pace than over the border with Moira.

Edited by AllyB
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

I thought this was a satisfying season finale. It wrapped up a lot of things but there are still stories to tell next year.

Serena and Fred suuuuuuuuck. He takes no responsibility for his actions and continues to manipulate those around him. When he told Serena that it was HER fault that he was fucking around with June, I just rolled my eyes. When she told him that everyone answers to God, his response was to remind her that she is now inferior to him by saying, "And you answer to me. Go to your room." He really thought he was untouchable. Ugh, why is it that everyone tries to lord it over others by treating them like children?

Later Fred thought he could joke around about Warren fucking Janine only to find that the other commanders were all business about it. When he learned that Warren's wife requested the harshest possible punishment for him, he realized he had to go kiss Serena's ass to make sure that he will keep all of his extremities. He is despicable.

But Serena is just as horrible in her own way. She had the nerve to blame Offred for her husband's behavior, as if Offred could have said no to anything Fred wanted to do. Torturing Offred with the sight of her child and then threatening her safety to keep Offred in line was just fucking disgusting. Incredible how Serena could so easily say, "Nothing will happen to your child as long as nothing happens to mine." Uhh, lady, the baby you're referring to as YOURS is actually Offred's child which you intend to steal from her.

Later when Offred was being taken from the house and Serena said, "What did you do? After all we've done for you!" I just shook my head. All you and your husband have done for her? You held her arms down while he raped her. You smacked her around. You blamed her for your husband's infidelity, knowing that she had no choice in the matter. You told her that you arranged to have someone else rape her because you suspect your husband is infertile. Your husband snuck her out, putting her life in danger, so that he could rape her in a different building. You locked her in her room for weeks. You trotted her out like a prize pig to lie to your guests about how wonderful it is to be raped every month in the hopes that she can give you her rape baby. Yes, you guys have done so much for her!

When the handmaids were called for a stoning, I was afraid it might be Nick because Serena no longer had any use for his penis and had reported him. Poor Janine. She really can't catch a break. I guess I should just be glad that they didn't keep her as a comatose baby incubator, but asking the handmaids to stone one of their own? Did they really think that would go over well?

I'm so happy that Moira escaped and made it to Canada. Her shell shocked response to being treated like a normal human being was sad to see. I loved that one of the options that her liaison guy offered her was sitting and reading quietly. I'm sure there must be some people who take him up on that just on principle after years of not being allowed to read. People always talk about the first thing they'll do when they are free but when you're actually in that situation, you never know what your reaction will be.

When the guy asked if she had any family she wanted to put on her notification list in case they crossed the border, I was surprised she didn't says June. I guess she figured the chances of June ever escaping were slim to none.

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
  • Like 21

Share this post


Link to post
On 14.6.2017 at 9:03 AM, Umbelina said:

No mention of Mexico and this could have been the finale of the series. YUP, that entire plot line was simply to give Luke a boffo, "he's a freedom fighter!" reintroduction.  My minor quibble.

I'm pretty sure the show runners knew a loooooong time ago that they would get a second season, considering the viewer count, cultural impact of the show and the billions of awards it will get.

On 14.6.2017 at 9:33 AM, The Mighty Peanut said:

Lydia can can shove her cattle prod where the sun don't shine. Wtf did she do to June? Shock her with an electric staple? What was that machine? And why would they keep Janine alive just to kill her? Power, I know. But she IS a healthy, viable womb. 

They implanted a GPS tracker in her ear. Why they used something that needed pneumatic preassure for that is beyond me, though. A little gun that just works with the preassure you apply with your hand would be more than enough for that.

19 hours ago, dmc said:

They were going to have to stone Janine...your punishment for trying to kill yourself is death...why save her to begin with...to be able to control her death...so f*cked up

I sadly can't find a source (too many similar but not quite it), but I've heard a story where a prison guard in the US took out his gun and killed a death row inmate, who'd just gone through hours of a botched execution and would probably have had to suffer hours more. That guard was willing to put that guilt on himself to put that poor guy out of his misery and of course he didn't get thanks for it, but was prosecuted for murder.

Only the state is allowed to murder people, you see.

On 14.6.2017 at 7:17 AM, Shaynaa said:

How come she doesn't have a family?  Not a single relative out there?  Nobody?  Emily had a family that got away.  Why does Moira's identity have to just be June's friend?  POC being treated like this isn't new but I always hate seeing it. 

Moira doesn't have any family in Canada. She certainly has some in Gilead. Also don't forget that Luke and Hannah are black too and they certainly have a family.

36 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

When the guy asked if she had any family she wanted to put on her notification list in case they crossed the border, I was surprised she didn't says June. I guess she figured the chances of June ever escaping were slim to none.


He said "Do you have any family in Canada? We have an alert system in case anybody comes in."

It is worded a bit confusing, but what he meant was, that if Moira had family in Canada, that family would have been alerted by her arrival.

Edited by Miles
  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
10 minutes ago, Miles said:

They implanted a GPS tracker in her ear. Why they used something that needed pneumatic preassure for that is beyond me, though. A little gun that just works with the preassure you apply with your hand would be more than enough for that.

It was just a red tag. I don't think there has ever been any indication that it has a tracker in it. If it had, it would have been used to capture her and Moira within minutes of their attempted escape.

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, AllyB said:

It was just a red tag. I don't think there has ever been any indication that it has a tracker in it. If it had, it would have been used to capture her and Moira within minutes of their attempted escape.

I think it was mentioned in previous episodes and in this one it was at least heavily implied. Aunt Lydia said "This is will be painfull, I am sorry to say. But you are so very precious, we wouldn't want to... lose you."

Also Moira was caught relatively swiftly. Probably took them a while to notice they were gone.

It might not be GPS, as that would be problematic considering it would need a power source, but it certainly has an electronic component, similar to what you chip pets with nowadays and probably can be read form a few meters away.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×