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BiP 4: Speculation & Spoilers

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You stop when you're feeling buzzed. No one I've ever known goes from sober to black out drunk instantly. There are stages. Once you feel buzzed you should start incorporating water into your drinking. Corinne is the person who took away Corinne's ability to consent so she really should use this as a wake up call to realize that the lifestyle she is living is could end up killing her. So far I haven't heard DeMario blaming anyone or talk about consent so I can't really speak to him, but yeah, maybe the 20-something crowd, not all but those who think that success is your number of likes or followers and that fame is everything even if it costs you your dignity and control over your own freaking body, could use a lesson in cause and effect. You drink until you can't walk straight and there is a damned good chance something bad is going to happen to you. Did she, or any of them, learn anything from their first time on the franchise? She was made to look like a slutty fool on Bachelor so she comes back and gets even drunker and overly oversexed? It's a bit like burning your hand in a fire and then deciding to stick your whole arm in it.

Edited by Mabinogia
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I have been drunk to the the point where I threatened to stab some outlaw bikers.  In their own club.  Luckily they found me hilarious and were respectful.  I remember everything about that night, including puking on myself while driving.  I don't think that many people get so drunk they don't remember.  I think they are too embarrassed.  But either way, if both were impaired, neither could consent.  

Dumb fucks.  They took show away from us!   How will Amanda find a wallet, em, man before she becomes a shriveled up old woman?  How dare they deny us the right to judge her.  And no Chris Hansen!  He's at his sexiest in Mexico. 

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I have been blackout drunk.  Someone handed me a 16oz plastic bottle of "water" which i guzzled. Greedily.  Straight from the bottle.  Turns out it was soju and they didnt think i was a) that thirsty b) that dumb and c) not going to know the difference.  (With soju, you dont feel the burn til you swallow and it evaporates on your throat, and since i downed the whole thing in one gulp, onc e i realized what it was,  it was too late. To them it was a funny joke.  To me, it was a disaster.  I was lucky that the other people i was with were decent people who took care of me. 

I was drunk before that, but would have been fine had someone not actively sabotaged my wellbeing.  

I thought i had been "so drunk i didnt remember things" before, but it turns out i just had drunk enough that i had hazy and patchy memories. That night, I remember nothing after that bottle of soju, of which i have a clear memory, as with everything before that   

So im sympathetic to Corinne and DeMario. When you think you are around people who are looking out for you, bad things can happen even to well intentioned people. 

 

But im not well versed on blackout drunkeness (never happened again) so i dont know if its normal to remember the pre-wasted memories or if that is unusual.  I feel as though its more likely that they both had patchy and hazy memories of what happened, though who knows.  Im not sure either of their brains work that well in the first place!.  

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1 hour ago, Mu Shu said:

I have been drunk to the the point where I threatened to stab some outlaw bikers.  In their own club.  Luckily they found me hilarious and were respectful.  I remember everything about that night, including puking on myself while driving.  I don't think that many people get so drunk they don't remember.  I think they are too embarrassed.  But either way, if both were impaired, neither could consent.  

Dumb fucks.  They took show away from us!   How will Amanda find a wallet, em, man before she becomes a shriveled up old woman?  How dare they deny us the right to judge her.  And no Chris Hansen!  He's at his sexiest in Mexico. 

Mu Shu, your whole post cracked me up, but the best part is the Freudian slip of Chris Hansen instead of Harrison. Hansen used to do those Dateline NBC or whatever undercover sting operations for child molesters. If Hansen was there, man, he would have saved the day before anything untoward went down!

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10 minutes ago, JenE4 said:

Mu Shu, your whole post cracked me up, but the best part is the Freudian slip of Chris Hansen instead of Harrison. Hansen used to do those Dateline NBC or whatever undercover sting operations for child molesters. If Hansen was there, man, he would have saved the day before anything untoward went down!

I don't think that was a Freudian slip - Chad once called CH "Chris Hansen" to everyone's amusement, and it stuck.

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I do think this is an interesting talk piece if she was indeed super drunk and also the sexual aggressor.  The reason men are often held responsible in a both parties are drunk situation is because the men are aggressive (via penetration) but if she was shoving her lady bits in his face and he was going along with what she was putting out there I don't think you can say that she was a victim of sexual assault even if she was very close to being fall down drunk because she was the aggressor and she was continuing to further the sexual activity (as opposed to if she wasn't lucid and was just lying there) and he wasn't pushing sexual activity on her that she couldn't agree to (it will also obviously be an episode of law and order SVU next season, you know the writers of SVU are just jumping up and down in joy over this.

If Corrine was the sexually aggressive one and DeMario was a drunk participant going along with what the pretty girl he was hooking up with was pushing him towards I truly hope that he is fully vindicated with a full transcript of what is on tape being released to the public (because unless that happens he will always be branded a date rapist).

On the other hand if it was true that she was so drunk she was almost to the point of passing out and he continued to try to have sex with her then that's a completely different story, however with the narrative in all the cases being that she was the receiver of oral sex it's pretty hard to imagine that happened without her asking for it.  I can't imagine many guys would get off on giving a girl oral sex when the girl was unable to react (but who knows. . . . . odder things have happened).

From meshing all the reports together it sounds like the real issue wasn't one of consent between the couple but the fact that they got totally naked and made porn by the pool.  If the producer was one of Corrine's real life friends (as opposed to just being a "friend.") and she knew Corrine's daddy I wouldn't be surprised if what happened was that the producer saw or heard what happened and what was on tape, called Corrine's Daddy who told her to make sure that tape never saw the light of day, gave her the idea to sue to Corrine got the hell out of there and make sure the tapes were never seen, not expecting that DeMario would tattle and say exactly what happened.

Our Buddy Chris Harrison (but not Chris Hanson, he would have shut everything down with a girl asking for Lemonade) said that we would get the entire story after everything was "investigated" and there were "sources" on the entertainment shows tonight telling the "Corrine was the sexual aggressor, both were very loud and looking for attention and Corrine made out with other guys after the DeMario hookup happened story and it was all the rogue producer that shut everything down.  Chris even said that he was looking to get back to work which I guess could mean that everyone will fly back next weekend and then we really will have the MOST DRAMATIC ROSE CEREMONY EVER.

Evan and Carly are still getting their wedding though.  It could end up being a three night extravaganza now that the network will have so much time to fill. 

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6 hours ago, ByTor said:

I've been pretty much saying the same thing, but then someone on this board  made an analogy to a real-life bartender being liable if he/she continues to serve a visibly intoxicated patron

Yes and no. In the bartender example, that person was supplying the patron with drinks, meaning the bartender was the only way for that patron to get more alcohol. 

At the Bachelor/ette mansion/resort alcohol is freely available, yes? There is beer and wine and liquor in the fridge and they serve themselves (sure, Jorge existed in BiP but I don't think he was playing gatekeeper to the alcohol so much as playing a character) and the contestants serve themselves.

The difference is in availability. The Fleiss might have foot the bill for having the alcohol around, but those contestants still went to the fridge and grabbed a beer or poured that glass of wine themselves.

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8 hours ago, McManda said:

At the Bachelor/ette mansion/resort alcohol is freely available, yes?

Hmmm I don't know, I always assumed they had to go to the bar to get it.  Please don't tell me Jorge isn't a real bartender...we've been duped!!!

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8 hours ago, meatball77 said:

I do think this is an interesting talk piece if she was indeed super drunk and also the sexual aggressor.  The reason men are often held responsible in a both parties are drunk situation is because the men are aggressive (via penetration) but if she was shoving her lady bits in his face and he was going along with what she was putting out there I don't think you can say that she was a victim of sexual assault even if she was very close to being fall down drunk because she was the aggressor and she was continuing to further the sexual activity (as opposed to if she wasn't lucid and was just lying there) and he wasn't pushing sexual activity on her that she couldn't agree to (it will also obviously be an episode of law and order SVU next season, you know the writers of SVU are just jumping up and down in joy over this.

 

It is interesting.  In my opinion, the difference is Demario's state.  If he were sober I'd hope, even with that opportunity right in front of him, that he'd shut it down with the old "I don't want you to do something now that you'll regret in the morning."  If the accounts are true that they were both intoxicated, then IMO all bets are off.

9 hours ago, fib said:

Someone handed me a 16oz plastic bottle of "water" which i guzzled. Greedily.  Straight from the bottle.  Turns out it was soju and they didnt think i was a) that thirsty b) that dumb and c) not going to know the difference.

That was awful, I'm glad nothing serious happened to you.

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2 hours ago, ByTor said:

It is interesting.  In my opinion, the difference is Demario's state.  If he were sober I'd hope, even with that opportunity right in front of him, that he'd shut it down with the old "I don't want you to do something now that you'll regret in the morning."  If the accounts are true that they were both intoxicated, then IMO all bets are off.

 

Yep, two drunks behaving badly.   Nothing more that I see with what is out there now.   I don't think anything will come of this. 

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On 6/13/2017 at 10:18 PM, JenE4 said:

Mu Shu, your whole post cracked me up, but the best part is the Freudian slip of Chris Hansen instead of Harrison. Hansen used to do those Dateline NBC or whatever undercover sting operations for child molesters. If Hansen was there, man, he would have saved the day before anything untoward went down!

I wish I could take credit for it.  There was a pre Chad meat head contestant who was ordered to see Chris Harrison because he was too rowdy,  and answered "who is Chris Hansen? ".  I think it was the Kaitlyn season, and he was a drunk guy who heckled some other idiot from the bushes.  

Crap, was it Chad?  Maybe it was Chad.  Either way, it was a big fuck you to Chris Harrison who I love, but it was hilarious. 

Edited by Mu Shu
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So just a recap of who was in Mexico when things were shut down and who MIGHT be back for part 2:

Guys from JoJo's season: Alex, Saint Nick, Robby, Derek, Vinny

Guys from Rachel's season: DeMario, Iggy, Diggy, Dean, Matt,  Jack

Ben Z from Kaitlyn's season.

Wells was the bartender and it was planned for him to have the opportunity to ask someone out on a date.

Girls (all from Nick's season except Amanda): Alexis, Raven, Jasmine, Lacey, Taylor, Kristina, Danielle M, Amanda and Corinne

Lacey left day one when her grandfather died and according to RS four Nick girls, Astrid, Dominique, Danielle L and Sarah were in Mexico and suppose to come in after the first rose ceremony.

"Couples" that had briefly formed include:

Taylor & Derek, Kristina & Dean (went out on a date and seem to have been seeing each other during hiatus), Danielle M & Jack, Raven & Ben Z, and Matt & Jasmine (went on a date).   Robby went on a date with Raven but nothing happened.

As to who is coming back, Danielle M is out for returning, according to reports as she's going on a medical mission trip and Raven has tweeted that she'll be back.   I guess we'll see in the coming days who is in and who has a real life and can't take off of work to go back.  

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Seeing Taylor's name just made me think...I wonder what she thinks of this whole Corinne mess.  Emotional intelligence indeed!

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I just read RS latest blog and he says EVERYONE is going back to start filming this weekend.   Well he doesn't expect Corinne or DeMario to be there but everyone else will be there to resume their quest for a Neal Lane ring.   I guess Danielle M was able to make a change to her mission plans.  Or she's not going and RS just doesn't have that info yet.

Stay tune!

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5 hours ago, CindyBee said:

I just read RS latest blog and he says EVERYONE is going back to start filming this weekend.   Well he doesn't expect Corinne or DeMario to be there but everyone else will be there to resume their quest for a Neal Lane ring.   I guess Danielle M was able to make a change to her mission plans.  Or she's not going and RS just doesn't have that info yet.

Stay tune!

I feel bad for DeMario IF he wanted to be there. However, with everything he went through with the ex-girlfriend confrontation on The Bachelorette and then a possible rape allegation on this show, um, yeah--lesson learned! I picture DeMario backing slowly away from the set. Two strikes from this show against him is enough!

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Considering how this all started with Reality TV, maybe DeMario should go back on BiP and do a Nick-style redemption?

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23 hours ago, ByTor said:

Seeing Taylor's name just made me think...I wonder what she thinks of this whole Corinne mess.  Emotional intelligence indeed!

I can't wait for Taylor to get on her high horse and start psychoanalyzing Corinne. Is that mean of me? I don't even like Taylor but their "feud" was hilarious.

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2 minutes ago, waving feather said:

Is that mean of me?

Kind of...but that's what makes it fun!! :)

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On 6/21/2017 at 4:19 PM, aw86 said:

Ugh.  They have proven themselves to be boring twice now.   I wonder if Ambers sorry ass will dust off her ratty wig and be back for more humiliation?  

We can only hope!  Though I do actually like Amber.

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The twins? It's so hard to imagine that anyone anywhere has any more interest in seeing more of those 2 boring, barely-attractive-enough women.  uuggghh

I don't have a clear opinion on what I think happened with Demario and Corrine, but I basically hope that A) they're both okay and B) neither ever shows up on my screen again. I have no interest in watching either of them put on their weird, unpleasant little shows.

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So TMZ has some pics up on their webiste from when filming resumed last weekend.

Really only see two "couples" hanging out, Jasmine & Matt and Taylor & Derek, two couples that formed before filming was halted.   Didn't see Kristina & Dean together so who knows if they decided to keep going as a "couple" but won't be surprised if they did. 

Raven is in the pool with pretty much every other guy there.  And there's  been a recent picture of her on a date with Adam (no idea if Adam Jr went too) so its not looking good for her to get her Neal Lane bling as if she's not in a "couple" by now, a proposal probably isn't happening.

Edited by CindyBee

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So RS had a short blurb on his blog this morning that the final "couples" are still down in Mexico and that he expects one or more engagements and that who ends up engaged will be a surprise.

For me,Taylor & Derek and Kristina & Dean are the most likely to be getting engaged and would be a surprise to the general watcher.  Now watch it be neither of those two couples and be something really surprising!  Can't wait to find out!!

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3 minutes ago, CindyBee said:

For me,Taylor & Derek and Kristina & Dean are the most likely to be getting engaged and would be a surprise to the general watcher.  Now watch it be neither of those two couples and be something really surprising!  Can't wait to find out!!

I think it's a surprise that anyone wants to put up with Taylor, because she was such a wet blanket on the Bachelor.

Edited by chocolatine
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I'm excited for Kristina and Dean- both seem like genuinely nice people and hope they find happiness together.

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RS mentioned that the filming duration this time is only 11 days. That's just crazy to me. I thought 14 days was short but this is...

On the flip side, these people probably spend more time with each other than the couples on the main franchise show. But seriously, people on Survivor knows each other much better than these fools on these shows. Lol.

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wait, so people are getting engaged after spending 11 days together? It has taken me longer than that to decide if I really want to buy that new dress or pick a new hairstyle. Though in fairness, I knew the second I saw him that I wanted to adopt my puppy Buster, so I guess there is love at first blurred, drunken, double visioned sight.

Hahahah!!! Is there like only one Neil Lane ring so they are all racing to get it? Ooh, that could be the new version of the show. Sort of Amazing Race meets Married at First Sight.

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39 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

wait, so people are getting engaged after spending 11 days together? It has taken me longer than that to decide if I really want to buy that new dress or pick a new hairstyle. Though in fairness, I knew the second I saw him that I wanted to adopt my puppy Buster, so I guess there is love at first blurred, drunken, double visioned sight.

Hahahah!!! Is there like only one Neil Lane ring so they are all racing to get it? Ooh, that could be the new version of the show. Sort of Amazing Race meets Married at First Sight.

That actually would be amazing. Couples /  men duking it out to get the one and only NL ring. 

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21 hours ago, JenMcSnark said:

I'm sure with Kristina there, Amanda was no longer the "prize" that all the guys went gaga over. And is it just my laptop screen, or do her hair extensions look green in the TMZ video? A natural beauty Amanda is not.

2 hours ago, waving feather said:

RS mentioned that the filming duration this time is only 11 days. That's just crazy to me.

Is that 11 days total, or 11 days post-scandal? I thought RS said that some people who coupled up before everyone was sent home continued seeing each other at home. It's still very fast if they got engaged at the end of filming, but at least that would put the timeline at 3-4 weeks vs 11 days.

Edited by chocolatine
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36 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

Is that 11 days total, or 11 days post-scandal? I thought RS said that some people who coupled up before everyone was sent home continued seeing each other at home. It's still very fast if they got engaged at the end of filming, but at least that would put the timeline at 3-4 weeks vs 11 days.

 

If Kristina & Dean and Taylor & Derek did see each other during the hiatus of filming or even if they just were in contact via phone, then the time they spent together was indeed more than either Jade/Tanner or Carly/Evan so them getting engaged isn't that big of deal when you consider past seasons. 

What would be surprising is if Raven or some other original girl got engaged to a late arrival, someone who got there when the show resumed filming as that would only 10-11 days. 

I was hoping that RS would release the end couples today but dropping news on a Friday afternoon isn't a good thing for blog traffic so I guess he'll sit on what he has to next week.  

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I think everyone within Bachelor Family knows that a Final Rose Ceremony engagement doesn't REALLY mean let's start planning a wedding, it just means let's date each other in real life and see where this goes. The Neil Lane ring is like a "pin" a guy used to give a girl on say, Happy Days or that one episode of Who's the Boss when Mona went back to college.

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Quote

Hahahah!!! Is there like only one Neil Lane ring so they are all racing to get it? Ooh, that could be the new version of the show. Sort of Amazing Race meets Married at First Sight.

I'd watch that show in a heartbeat! Imagine them wearing backpacks with their tuxes and wedding gowns all while doing some crazy task to get one step closer to the ring. 

Poor Amanda. So does an early out mean men didn't fight over her affection? It probably crushed the squeaky-voiced imitation of Cousin Itt. 

Edited by ramble · Reason: Wonky quote
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7 hours ago, chocolatine said:

Is that 11 days total, or 11 days post-scandal?

What I'm wondering is if it's 11 days total, or they are there longer but only film for 11 days.

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Reality Steve has his spoilers up!   Its too much to recap so read if you can as its quite detailed and quite fun.

Random stuff:

Says there was 14 days of filming total, so only 4 less than "normal".

Dean/Kristina/Danielle L are the big love triangle of the season

Only three couples end up on overnight dates:

Derek/Taylor, Daniel/Lacey, Adam/Raven

No engagements (yet, RS expects Derek & Taylor to get engaged at the reunion)

Couples that are still "together" post show:

Derek/Taylor, Daniel/Lacey, Adam/Raven even though he hooked up with Sarah Vendal during the hiatus of filming; Amanda/Robby (though they didn't go on an overnight date), and maybe Jasmine/Jack

Love triangle between Dean/Kristina/Danielle is STILL going on post show. 

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2 hours ago, CindyBee said:

Love triangle between Dean/Kristina/Danielle is STILL going on post show. 

I went to read the full RS post just to see what that was all about. Dean has really gone down in my estimation. Kristina can do so much better.

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30 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

I went to read the full RS post just to see what that was all about. Dean has really gone down in my estimation. Kristina can do so much better.

 

Kristina was this year's "IT girl" and she ends up in this mess!   

If you are reading this Kristina, just pick up your phone and where you have Dean's number stored, just hit "BLOCK".  And then hit the reject circuit hard as maybe there is someone you missed out on cause you were too busy with boy-child Dean.  Or better yet, find someone outside this dumb franchise.  Your shilling opportunities will be less but it can work out quite well.

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I love what Steve said about the twins:  "Haley and Emily are set to go on a double date with Jack and Tickle Monster, but Jack ends up cancelling at the last minute. The twins are furious, go off on everybody, tell the whole group to f**k off, then leave."  *ROFL*

I'm also looking forward to weird, Canadian Daniel.  Looks like he kept the love flowing with Lacey.  Until the end, that is  

Strange that out of 4 seasons of BIP, there's been 2 Lacey's and 1 Lace.  

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49 minutes ago, leighdear said:

Strange that out of 4 seasons of BIP, there's been 2 Lacey's and 1 Lace.  

Strictly speaking it was Lacy, Lace, and Lacey. :D

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Lol. I love it. Some viewers think Dean is this precious special snowflake during this season of the Bachelorette. But doing more than one series always exposes someone's character, because you may not always get a favorable edit. 

DLo, really? She's very pretty but so vapid and can't hold a conversation. I thought Dean went back to Kristina's hometown during the production break? I am excited to watch how DLo came into the picture. I think Dean will be the next Jared. I can already imagine the flip flopping. 

And who knew Adam would be such a playa. I hope he brought Adam Jr. along. 

Edited by waving feather
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4 hours ago, waving feather said:

DLo, really? She's very pretty but so vapid and can't hold a conversation. I thought Dean went back to Kristina's hometown during the production break? I am excited to watch how DLo came into the picture. I think Dean will be the next Jared. I can already imagine the flip flopping. 

And who knew Adam would be such a playa. I hope he brought Adam Jr. along. 

 

Yes Dean went to Kentucky during the hiatus to be with Kristina and left Paradise professing his love of Kristina to Danielle, after Kristina left.    Now that everyone is back home, looks like he's back to spending time with Danielle--see Reality Steve's twitter feed today--so who knows who he will be "in love" with when the Reunion films in few months.   Maybe neither of them!

And yeah, Adam has turned into quite the player.   Hooks up with Sarah Vendal during the hiatus, arrives in Mexico and immediately takes Raven out then when Sarah arrives, she asks him out thinking they were a thing already but then he's back to Raven.  

Fleiss must have done the snoopy dance of joy at all these "love triangles" forming as he had to have known that a coupling of Taylor/Derek wasn't going to carry the season AT ALL.

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Since I don't watch this crap for love I would much rather see a playa flip flopping between desperate love interests. It is so boring when they all hook up right away and stay together just to stay in front of the cameras longer.

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How weird for Rachel that the men who were pursuing her a few months ago, her "sloppy seconds", are now hooking up with her friends/ squad. Bachelor nation is super weird. 

3 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

Since I don't watch this crap for love I would much rather see a playa flip flopping between desperate love interests. It is so boring when they all hook up right away and stay together just to stay in front of the cameras longer.

Oh yes, this is the best drama IMO. 

Edited by waving feather
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On 7/13/2017 at 11:39 AM, CindyBee said:

And yeah, Adam has turned into quite the player.   Hooks up with Sarah Vendal during the hiatus, arrives in Mexico and immediately takes Raven out then when Sarah arrives, she asks him out thinking they were a thing already but then he's back to Raven.

So, Sarah got played by Robby Hayes (vom) before Paradise and by Adam during the hiatus. Just as surprising as Adam being a player is that Sarah turned out to be a dope.

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On 7/13/2017 at 7:27 AM, waving feather said:

DLo, really? She's very pretty but so vapid and can't hold a conversation. I thought Dean went back to Kristina's hometown during the production break? I am excited to watch how DLo came into the picture. I think Dean will be the next Jared. I can already imagine the flip flopping. 

And who knew Adam would be such a playa. I hope he brought Adam Jr. along. 

So many yeses to all of this, but especially the Jared part. I think you nailed it! FWIW, I still really like Jared!

As far as Dean flip flopping, it doesn't bother me. He is young, and that is what Paradise is about. And besides, Kristina was dating Jef Holm when she signed up for Paradise.

Edited by nutty1

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On 7/11/2017 at 9:33 AM, CindyBee said:

Reality Steve has his spoilers up!   Its too much to recap so read if you can as its quite detailed and quite fun.

Random stuff:

Says there was 14 days of filming total, so only 4 less than "normal".

Dean/Kristina/Danielle L are the big love triangle of the season

Only three couples end up on overnight dates:

Derek/Taylor, Daniel/Lacey, Adam/Raven

No engagements (yet, RS expects Derek & Taylor to get engaged at the reunion)

Couples that are still "together" post show:

Derek/Taylor, Daniel/Lacey, Adam/Raven even though he hooked up with Sarah Vendal during the hiatus of filming; Amanda/Robby (though they didn't go on an overnight date), and maybe Jasmine/Jack

Love triangle between Dean/Kristina/Danielle is STILL going on post show. 

Thank for the gist.  I won't know who any of these people are until I see them with the exception of Dean and Taylor.  14 days, wow.  How can all of this happen in that short amount of time.  I used to look forward to this show but it seems such a weak effort this time.  

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