Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[Stallion12]

4 minutes ago, anamika said:

Jon finally petting and hugging Ghost at the end of 3 seasons must be the sweet part of the bittersweet ending.

All things considered, that's really not a bad ending for Jon. In the books, GRRM beautifully describes the lands beyond the wall as Jon falls in love with both the place and Ygritte. Unlike the Jon-Ygritte romcom on the show, in the books, it is melancholy and beautiful as Jon learns about another culture and falls in love - that was the whole point of 'You know nothing Jon Snow'.

Jon ending back there, among people he loves, with Ghost - who is a part of him and free from all the folks trying to use him would be a good ending.

It's just poor Dany. After working so hard all her life for this after a terrible, shit childhood with Viserys - to end this way? That's just tragic and sad and undeserved. 

But I guess, I could take the positive of it as Dany fighting till the end for what she wanted when she started out. And not just setting up house with Jon and little babies. She's been one of those unique characters in fantasy and I guess going out this way, after giving it her all and being a dragon, is better then ending up a housewife.

Guess it depends on how it's done, overall it would be more bitter and not sweet, especially if bran is head of the council.

[nikma]

10 minutes ago, anamika said:

Jon ending back there, among people he loves, with Ghost - who is a part of him and free from all the folks trying to use him would be a good ending.

I agree. 

[Wouter]

1 hour ago, BadAssRobinArryn said:

Indeed. Though this one claimed that he only did so because of the negative comments about the leaks. Which would be a reason.

One comment that struck me as not particularly fleaker-like is his comment that many of the crew served as extras in 8x06. It makes sense (for secrecy) and is probably something only very smart fleakers would think about. The leak could be damage limitation from TPTB.

1 hour ago, absnow54 said:

Drogon armor doesn't seem like that big of a speculative stretch, given Dany's recent loss, and the quantity of ballistas Cersei seems to have. 

But it is at least a specific prediction, so here the (f)leaker is at least sticking his neck out. It may not be a speculative stretch, but AFAIK no one else has predicted this? If it doesn't happen in ep.5, we know he's fake.

1 hour ago, nikma said:

 shooting many different endings never made any sense to me, so I think this is another fleaker. 

HBO probably fooled Friki, which would probably have to be done with a fake ending (Friki seemed to have seen pictures). The (f)leaker claims at least 3 different endings "that make sense" could be edited out of everything shot for 8x06, with the implication that more endings were shot but they don't necessarily make sense (in his opinion).

In one comment (in one of the posts in which he claimed Drogon will be armoured by 8x05), the (f)leaker seems to  imply (though not outright state) that KL will be destroyed by wildfire:

"Q: Who burns Kingslanding? Is Drogon armoured next episode?

A: I don’t know how post handles it but he will have armour. If I told you the other things it would spread like wildfire which I don’t want"

Q: Wildfire, you say...

A: Oops, did I?"

About Dany: "I wouldn’t call it mad Dany. I would call it human reaction Dany with a sprinkle of incest"

About feminist endings: "Some endings do. It’s awful how they wrote the strong women. Except missandei. She died strong"

[BadAssRobinArryn]

Here is a very concrete Information from the new leaker regarding 8x5:

Question: Who is the guy standing next to Tyrion in episode 5 preview in Dragonstone Throne Room?

Answer from leaker: Gendry. They’re talking about Valyrian steel armour. Gendry will have dragonfire to make Valyrian steel and will make armour for Drogon.

If this is true, the information could very well be credible.

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/blf2hx/not_your_typical_leaker/?ref=share&ref_source=embed&utm_content=title&utm_medium=post_embed&utm_name=2270c5d8bd534c8a8463fa64a16904e0&utm_source=embedly&utm_term=blf2hx

[Morrigan2575]

For me, the bittersweet will come from the Pack Surviving but, being separated. I can always pretend that the Siblings/Cousins reunite from time to time over the years but, I really wanted them all back together at Winterfell. 

[stagmania]

21 minutes ago, BadAssRobinArryn said:

Here is a very concrete Information from the new leaker regarding 8x5:

Question: Who is the guy standing next to Tyrion in episode 5 preview in Dragonstone Throne Room?

Answer from leaker: Gendry. They’re talking about Valyrian steel armour. Gendry will have dragonfire to make Valyrian steel and will make armour for Drogon.

If this is true, the information could very well be credible.

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/blf2hx/not_your_typical_leaker/?ref=share&ref_source=embed&utm_content=title&utm_medium=post_embed&utm_name=2270c5d8bd534c8a8463fa64a16904e0&utm_source=embedly&utm_term=blf2hx

And he has added that none of Jon's possible endings do his arc justice, and that the potential Jon kills Dany ending is not justified. Only one possible ending he is aware of would redeem Dany and leave her in a good place, and seems unlikely to be the one.

Mostly what I'm taking from this is to keep my expectations firmly in the gutter. 🙂

[Raachel2008]

4 hours ago, galaxygirl76 said:

I'm annoyed that it looks that this show that was all about girl power is going to end up with a council run by men. 

The show was never about girl power eve if some women found a way to have power - Dany, Cersei, Sansa.

[Wouter]

1 minute ago, stagmania said:

And he has added that none of Jon's possible endings do his arc justice, and that the potential Jon kills Dany ending is not justified. Only one possible ending he is aware of would redeem Dany and leave her in a good place, and seems unlikely to be the one.

Mostly what I'm taking from this is to keep my expectations firmly in the gutter. 🙂

At least this would mean there are 2 potential endings in which Jon does not kill Dany. Anything is a win at this point...

[Constantinople]

The writing's been so bad and implausible, I hope the following happens (though I'm certain it won't)

• Cersei finds out about Jon's parents, the annulment of Rhaegar's marriage to Elia Martel,and Rhaegar and Lyanna's marriage
   
• Cersei broadcasts this information to create maximum havoc, and eventually the Stark and Targaryen forces turn on one another about who rightful heir
   
• The remaining Stark and Targaryen leaders are brought in chains before Cersei on the Iron Throne
   
• Cersei brings the High Septon into the throne rome
   
• The High Septon tells everyone that the annulment of Rhaegar's marriage was invalid because you can't get an annulment, in secret, with no grounds. Therefore, Rhaegar & Lyanna's marriage was invalid
   
• People realize Jon isn't the "true heir" to the Iron Throne because he's bastard after all. Homer Simpson face palms himself while yelling "D'oh!"
   
• Cersei mouths the word "morons" while laughing maniacally
   
• Fade to black

[Jextella]

1 hour ago, anamika said:

Jon finally petting and hugging Ghost at the end of 3 seasons must be the sweet part of the bittersweet ending.

All things considered, that's really not a bad ending for Jon. In the books, GRRM beautifully describes the lands beyond the wall as Jon falls in love with both the place and Ygritte. Unlike the Jon-Ygritte romcom on the show, in the books, it is melancholy and beautiful as Jon learns about another culture and falls in love - that was the whole point of 'You know nothing Jon Snow'.

Jon ending back there, among people he loves, with Ghost - who is a part of him and free from all the folks trying to use him would be a good ending.

It's just poor Dany. After working so hard all her life for this after a terrible, shit childhood with Viserys - to end this way? That's just tragic and sad and undeserved. 

But I guess, I could take the positive of it as Dany fighting till the end for what she wanted when she started out. And not just setting up house with Jon and little babies. She's been one of those unique characters in fantasy and I guess going out this way, after giving it her all and being a dragon, is better then ending up a housewife.

I haven't read the books and probably won't, but the info from the books from forum posters is really helpful to better understand the show, so thank you.

George Martin interviews are also helpful.   He seems to stand by his work, his characters, and their stories - regardless of how fans feel about them...which I love.  The stories are his - not ours.  George Martin said it well in one of the interviews....something like if people aren't having different opinions about it, then the story is no good....something like that.

He has also shared a lot about what it takes to adapt a book to tv.  The mechanics of it all really do require compromise by all sides - the author, the showrunners, HBO executives, the actors, all those involved in design, production, direction, etc.    

To do it perfectly all the while pleasing all fans simultaneously isn't in the cards. 

Having a better handle on his point of view and the nuts and bolts of a book-to-tv adaptation make me feel as if I'll be satisfied with just about any ending - even if it doesn't align with what I hope the ending might be or think it should be. 

Edited May 6, 2019 by Jextella

[Stallion12]

That new leaked says a night queen for Danny is a possible ending. That's interesting.

[Umbelina]

Putting this here because they talk about how the execution scene was filmed to avoid spoilers.

Seems like it was probably either stunt coordinator revealed, or more likely CGI people.

[chrisvee]

11 minutes ago, Stallion12 said:

That new leaked says a night queen for Danny is a possible ending. That's interesting.

That’s the most plausible reason for Jon to kill her.

[MrsR]

10 minutes ago, Stallion12 said:

That new leaked says a night queen for Danny is a possible ending. That's interesting.

I guess it would have to be Grey Worm to deliver the dragon glass.  Which is fine by me, going to Westeros has been a horrible experience for him.

I hope this is true. I would scream my approval from the rooftops.

[becauseIsaidso]

4 hours ago, NightOwl89 said:

I will not be finishing this show. I couldn’t bring myself to watch the last episode, and once I read up on what happened in it, I’ve decided to quit while I’m ahead and leave the death of the Night King as my own personal series finale. I feel absolutely betrayed by the creators of the show and by GRRM.

I really wish I hadn't watched it either. I don't plan to watch the remaining episodes until after they have aired and I can review the wisdom of these boards. I had such hopes for this season and am desolated at the waste of good characters.

[Chiny11]

That’s a whole lot of multiple endings for a show that always talks about the challenges of managing the budget due to the CGI requirements.  I don’t buy it. That would be a waste and a logistics issue.  That narrative was put out there by HBO to throw people off.

[Wouter]

13 minutes ago, Chiny11 said:

That’s a whole lot of multiple endings for a show that always talks about the challenges of managing the budget due to the CGI requirements.  I don’t buy it. That would be a waste and a logistics issue.  That narrative was put out there by HBO to throw people off.

They don't need to CGI the scenes filmed. Some don't even require CGI, as Friki's trial leak. In other case they simply wouldn't finish the scenes.

[SeanC]

Random aside, I was asking where the scroll Sophie talked about fit into the spoilers, and I think we may have seen it in 804 -- the message about Rhaegal and Missandei that she's reading in the scene with Jaime and Brienne.

[Umbelina]

9 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Random aside, I was asking where the scroll Sophie talked about fit into the spoilers, and I think we may have seen it in 804 -- the message about Rhaegal and Missandei that she's reading in the scene with Jaime and Brienne.

Or the one that got Littlefinger killed.

[SeanC]

5 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Or the one that got Littlefinger killed.

Sophie said the scroll was a huge spoiler for the show, meaning it was from Season 8. 

[Morrigan2575]

19 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Random aside, I was asking where the scroll Sophie talked about fit into the spoilers, and I think we may have seen it in 804 -- the message about Rhaegal and Missandei that she's reading in the scene with Jaime and Brienne.

You think there was something more in the note that comes up later? Or the actual spoiler was Missandei and Rhaegal

Edited May 6, 2019 by Morrigan2575

[LoveLeigh]

I think at the end of episode 6 they will all be dead. Each and every last one of them. The final scene will be George R. R. Martin telling the story of his ancestor, Samwell Tarly, to his own grandchildren.  

[Stallion12]

1 minute ago, DakotaLavender said:

I think at the end of episode 6 they will all be dead. Each and every last one of them. The final scene will be George R. R. Martin telling the story of his ancestor, Samwell Tarly, to his own grandchildren.  

I would actually love that.

[SeanC]

15 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

You think there was something more in the note that comes up later? Or the actual spoiler was Missandei and Rhaegal

I thought the latter.

[LoveLeigh]

1 minute ago, Stallion12 said:

I would actually love that.

I think the entire area will also be destroyed... in ruins from fires and other destruction and all that will remain is debris. In war, everybody loses. There can never be one person sitting on the Iron Throne.

Maybe the only thing that will remain in the next to last shot is a hand-carved stag. 

That toy will be held by one of George R. R. Martin's grandchildren as he is telling them the story of his ancestor in Game of Thrones. 

[MrsR]

4 minutes ago, DakotaLavender said:

That toy will be held by one of George R. R. Martin's grandchildren as he is telling them the story of his ancestor in Game of Thrones. 

Or a snowglobe.

[Raachel2008]

5 hours ago, anamika said:

Jon finally petting and hugging Ghost at the end of 3 seasons must be the sweet part of the bittersweet ending.

All things considered, that's really not a bad ending for Jon. In the books, GRRM beautifully describes the lands beyond the wall as Jon falls in love with both the place and Ygritte. Unlike the Jon-Ygritte romcom on the show, in the books, it is melancholy and beautiful as Jon learns about another culture and falls in love - that was the whole point of 'You know nothing Jon Snow'.

Jon ending back there, among people he loves, with Ghost - who is a part of him and free from all the folks trying to use him would be a good ending.

It's just poor Dany. After working so hard all her life for this after a terrible, shit childhood with Viserys - to end this way? That's just tragic and sad and undeserved. 

But I guess, I could take the positive of it as Dany fighting till the end for what she wanted when she started out. And not just setting up house with Jon and little babies. She's been one of those unique characters in fantasy and I guess going out this way, after giving it her all and being a dragon, is better then ending up a housewife.

I have no problems with Jon *choosing* to live a quiet live somewhere. However, if the spoilers are correct he is banned or decides to leave because he killed Dany, the woman he loves. How is living with all this guilty and pain a good ending?

Jaime killed Aerys and rightfully so; after he had burned the Starks and before he set fire in the entire city. Look what that did do him. You think Jon will be ok?

I read the entire thread of this new leaker. I can buy they shooting 1-2 endings for Dany and Jon, as long as it didn’t add costs - money being the reason I don’t believe they even bothered shooting fake endings for any other character other than those two.

The infos there that got me were a) he says that Dany dying isn’t justified and that none of Jon’s endings do justice to the character. So, basically, it is what we all know: the end doesn’t make that much sense with only 6 episodes - 5 if Dany does in ep 5. That may be GGRM’s ending but there is no development for that. Dany, Arya and Jon are my faves, I’m pissed that two of those will not go as they should - after arcs that does justice to them. 

I LOVED that Arya killed the NK, but reading those spoilers make me wish Jon has done it, so there was some purpose of the character.

Edited May 7, 2019 by Raachel2008

[BooBear]

2 hours ago, Constantinople said:

The writing's been so bad and implausible, I hope the following happens (though I'm certain it won't)

I just want to see one hour and a few minutes of Drogon burning all the people I hate in this show... starting with Cersie, continuing to Euron, and move to Varys and possibly Tyrion. I am heading to my brother's 60 foot tv to watch it all burn. 

Oh dear, hope this doesn't make me "mad" I have to go to work tomorrow. 

[MrsR]

19 minutes ago, BooBear said:

Oh dear, hope this doesn't make me "mad" I have to go to work tomorrow. 

"Fire is the purest death." Some witch said that.

It's all good.

[chrisvee]

30 minutes ago, BooBear said:

I just want to see one hour and a few minutes of Drogon burning all the people I hate in this show... starting with Cersie, continuing to Euron, and move to Varys and possibly Tyrion. I am heading to my brother's 60 foot tv to watch it all burn. 

Oh dear, hope this doesn't make me "mad" I have to go to work tomorrow. 

An hour of Drogon crispy-frying peeps followed by an hour of Jon and Tormund playing in the snow with Ghost works for me. It’s a wrap!

[Diana Berry]

I think Jon hugging Ghost would give me a wee bit of satisfaction ( that's pretty sad after 8 seasons).  I figured something was up when we didn't get a Ghost/Jon goodbye scene in E4.  But I do hate the idea of a depressed Jon at the end.

I'm  so confused by these spoilers.  I have a very basic question.  Who wins the Throne? 

[JennyMominFL]

1 hour ago, Diana Berry said:

I think Jon hugging Ghost would give me a wee bit of satisfaction ( that's pretty sad after 8 seasons).  I figured something was up when we didn't get a Ghost/Jon goodbye scene in E4.  But I do hate the idea of a depressed Jon at the end.

I'm  so confused by these spoilers.  I have a very basic question.  Who wins the Throne? 

When has Jon not been depressed? I have a friend who just started watching . He’s posting daily. Almost every time, it includes some form of “Jon is Brooding”

Edited May 7, 2019 by JennyMominFL

[Bannon]

I do think an ending with a tragically violent  conflict among the anti-Cersei forces, after Cersei's defeat, could have been really interesting, if it had been done well. You have to rewrite the story from Tywin Lannister's death, however, in my opinion, to have the characters develop the right way, and have the right pieces on the board, ending up in the right places. 

It really looks like the whole religious aspect of this story, and some further explanation of the role and importance of the 3ER is going by the wayside. Just totally lazy writing.

Edited May 7, 2019 by Bannon

[AuxArx]

I don't think the Starbucks cup was an accident. I think we've been watching Westworld: Medieval World all this time, and one of the paying guests left his coffee cup on the table after partying with the robots.  Hey, crazier things have happened on this show!

[MarySNJ]

6 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I could see them shooting multiple endings on scenes that require no CGI, for example, scenes that take place in one room/set with the same people.  All that would require is a change of dialogue and action, not costume changes, etc.  They could bring different extras in, leave them completely out, things like that.

It could be done cheaply, if sets, make up, costumes remained the same, and the only change was in words and action.  These could also be small but important scenes, which last only a few minutes.

Didn't Emilia say she shot a fake scene in one of her interviews? 

[anamika]

I will say that if people know about Jon killing Dany, then it has to be leaked by someone who has seen the episode or was one of the filming crew and not an extra. Considering how they shot even Missandei's death and CGI'ed it onto the scene later on to avoid spoilers, I doubt they would film something as important as Jon killing Dany in front of extras.

[tvduser93]

Perhaps Dany's main personal reason among many others to not even consider the co-ruling option with Jon, is because of Jon's half-stark blood/upbringing/mindset.

Unfortunately he is more than just a targareyn, unlike her.

[Clawdette]

Ever since we got the “Jon kills Dany” leak, I’ve been trying to imagine under what circumstances he would do this. I’m not convinced that burning down Kings Landing would be enough, horrible though it would be. 

But if Dany threatened one of his sibling/cousins, that would be a whole new ballgame. It would have to be a real threat, not a vague one. Something along the lines of, “When I finish with Kings Landing I’m headed north to wipe that red-haired sister of yours off the face of the earth. 

And last night totally set up a Jon & Ghost reunion in Episode 6. 

[TarotQueen]

If Jon does kill Dany, an interesting interaction would be the aftermath between him and Tyrion.

Tyrion loves Dany right now, true, but he also knows what it is to be compelled to kill the woman you love.

Of course, there might not be enough time for that, or the writers might prioritize differently.  But I would like to see a few lines between them about it.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

What is the implication of Night Queen?

[LadyChaos]

Personally, IMO, that list of spoilers for 804-806 had some truths and a lot of crap....here's why

If Dany does go on a rampage and starts killing people left and right, even if we the viewers side with Dany, the people in KL will view her as mad....even the Lords....who she will likely want to kill first.  In their eyes,  she is mad.  So if Jon does kill her then, in the eyes of the people and the Lords, Jon is justified in killing her.  So why would he need to surrender himself for her murder?  She is not Queen of the Seven Kingdoms yet, no matter what she calls herself, until she conquerers the Red Keep she is not really the Queen of the Seven Kingdoms. So it is not treason to kill her.  If Dany and Cersei are both dead, who is going to execute Jon, who has the only legitimate claim to the throne left, outside of Gendry.  

If the NK is dead, which him still being alive is only rumor, why does their need to be a Nights Watch? If they reestablish the NW to stop the Wildlings, Jon would never join up to fight against them again. 

If Bran were going to slowly turn into the new NK bc the NK touched him, then why would they make him King of the 7K? If he is turning into the NK, and he ends up on the throne, then everything was northing and there is no bitter or sweet ending, just a huge loss. Not to mention, that if he is not turning, he still creeps everyone out. And most people will believe that it probably isn't good to have someone on the throne, who is somewhat emotionless, cold, and has no wants, desires, or needs for himself or the kingdom. Not to mention that he can never have children, so in so many years they would need to find a new King without green sight anyway. Westeros functioned for 100's of years thinking green sight didn't exist, they probably would be happy to continue doing so, or at the very least not depending on it.

Didn't EC say she filmed an alternate ending her last day.  What if the 'leak' is the wrong ending.

Edited May 7, 2019 by LadyChaos

[WindyNights]

3 hours ago, Diana Berry said:

I think Jon hugging Ghost would give me a wee bit of satisfaction ( that's pretty sad after 8 seasons).  I figured something was up when we didn't get a Ghost/Jon goodbye scene in E4.  But I do hate the idea of a depressed Jon at the end.

I'm  so confused by these spoilers.  I have a very basic question.  Who wins the Throne? 

God-King Brandon Stark 

Edited May 7, 2019 by WindyNights

[rmontro]

I've avoided season 8 spoilers until today.  Seeing episode 4 upset me so much in the direction that it was going, I figured it couldn't get any worse.  The spoilers just confirm my worst suspicions.

So if Dany had never met Jon Snow, if she hadn't agreed to go with him and fight for the living, she would have been able to begin her campaign into Westeros with the full strength of her armies, her advisers still firmly on her side, and all three dragons.  It irritates me to no end that she sacrificed everything she had, only to get this crap ending which destroys her character, and destroys her personally, completely.

So what about Maggie the Frog's prophecy about Cersei being replaced by a younger, prettier woman?  Supposedly the spoilers say Westeros will be ruled by a council of men.  But if anyone gets the Iron Throne, my guess would now be Sansa (although the council idea rings true to me).

Barring some sort of pleasant surprise or redemption, this ending kills all my enthusiasm for Game of Thrones, and that enthusiasm was considerable.

[ShellsandCheese]

1 hour ago, WindyNights said:

God-King Brandon Stark 

Please no. That would be so bad. I just mentioned in the Sansa thread that what in my opinion, has been a lackluster final season, could have been easily avoided. It’s so obvious that the ending of the story should be that Cersei is destroyed along with the Iron Throne. Sadly, I don’t think that D&D knew how to get there without making most of the main characters make dumb as fuck decisions. 

I’m a Dany stan and initially I wanted her to take the Throne. I realized around season six that it wasn’t going to happen, because it was obvious that the end game is no Iron Throne. What I didn’t expect what the mess that is going on now.

I’ll even throw people who don’t like Dany a bone and admit that she probably isn’t fit to rule Westeros. Not because she mad or crazy but because she isn’t what Westeros needs and because through no fault of her own, she’s an outsider. 

That being said, the reason I think the endgame of no Iron Throne has been foretold is because none of the remaining main or secondary characters are fit to rule. None. (Maybe except Davos) They are all too deeply flawed, bitter, angry, hurt, tired, damaged, and set in their ways to be the new kind of leader that Westeros will need after a long period of instability and the end of some of their noble / great houses. 

Edited May 7, 2019 by ShellsandCheese

[Callista]

5 hours ago, BooBear said:

I just want to see one hour and a few minutes of Drogon burning all the people I hate in this show... starting with Cersie, continuing to Euron, and move to Varys and possibly Tyrion. I am heading to my brother's 60 foot tv to watch it all burn. 

Oh dear, hope this doesn't make me "mad" I have to go to work tomorrow. 

Not just in the show. I want Drogon to appear in the BTS video after the episode and burn D&D as well.

[Callista]

1 hour ago, rmontro said:

So what about Maggie the Frog's prophecy about Cersei being replaced by a younger, prettier woman?  Supposedly the spoilers say Westeros will be ruled by a council of men.  But if anyone gets the Iron Throne, my guess would now be Sansa (although the council idea rings true to me).

The prophecy doesn't really say that the YMBQ is going to sit on the throne after Cersei. It just says that she will cast Cersei down and take everything that Cersei holds dear. So that's essentially what Dany will do in the next two episodes, and since Dany considers herself a queen, she does fit the role of the YMBQ. 

[anamika]

2 hours ago, rmontro said:

So if Dany had never met Jon Snow, if she hadn't agreed to go with him and fight for the living, she would have been able to begin her campaign into Westeros with the full strength of her armies, her advisers still firmly on her side, and all three dragons.  It irritates me to no end that she sacrificed everything she had, only to get this crap ending which destroys her character, and destroys her personally, completely.

And this is the problem with the show destroying and undermining it's entire premise in episode 3. Dany was a fool to put the threat Jon was talking about above Cersei's threat. The threat up North was no big deal and all it needed was ninja Arya. Cersei did the right thing by staying put.  The whole thing was so inconsequential that it makes characters look foolish for worrying about the army of the dead in the first place. Even worse, it makes us the viewer feel foolish for ever having cared at all.

And now Dany is losing everything and the people she went up North to help are scheming against her and her advisers are treacherous and Jon is useless. Her attacking KL now with all she's got actually makes sense - but the show is trying to frame that as her being 'mad' for some reason via Varys/Tyrion and I don't know why the hell the audience would chose to listen to these idiots considering they have been useless for the past two seasons.

From what I can see online, this episode has pretty much turned most of the online fans into Dany supporters and against the Starks and that's something I am sure the show was not intending. Even ASoIaF Reddit which usually hates Dany and is pro-Stark is now the other way around after this episode.

That's what happens when you use bad writing to push the 'mad Dany' narrative when everything she has done and will do in the future is justified as right by the books and the show's own mythology in past seasons.

If Tyrion frees Jaime to go rescue Cersei after everything Cersei has done and Dany wants Tyrion executed, she is entirely 100% justified. And if Jon then kills Dany to prevent this, Jon is the mad, bad guy here, not Dany. Jon is the villain who murders this person he supposedly loves because two faced Tyrion asked him to. So if these spoilers are right

then Jon's character is simply the worst. They would have destroyed him.

Probably Kit Harington did end up reading the scripts and was so pissed that he did not bother to email the Ds and then just lied when meeting them about how he wanted it to be a surprise.

And apparently the last episode got one of the lowest ratings for GOT on IMDB.

Edited May 7, 2019 by anamika

[LoveLeigh]

5 hours ago, AuxArx said:

I don't think the Starbucks cup was an accident. I think we've been watching Westworld: Medieval World all this time, and one of the paying guests left his coffee cup on the table after partying with the robots.  Hey, crazier things have happened on this show!

I love this! Who within that world was a robot and who was a paying guest? 

[Oscirus]

Don't want to believe the Bran as King spoiler but between Tyrions conversations with Bran and those looks they've been sharing, I'm starting to get scared.

Some things are off. Or at least appear to be. Brienne  would have to break her vows to Sansa which would be way out of character. Jaime didn't leave until he heard that  Cersei was winning which seems to indicate he's not betraying the north. But yea too much of that is right for me to chalk it up to fan fiction. Perhaps some fake scenes are mixed in with the real. But it's not looking that way.

[LadyChaos]

3 hours ago, rmontro said:

I've avoided season 8 spoilers until today.  Seeing episode 4 upset me so much in the direction that it was going, I figured it couldn't get any worse.  The spoilers just confirm my worst suspicions.

So if Dany had never met Jon Snow, if she hadn't agreed to go with him and fight for the living, she would have been able to begin her campaign into Westeros with the full strength of her armies, her advisers still firmly on her side, and all three dragons.  It irritates me to no end that she sacrificed everything she had, only to get this crap ending which destroys her character, and destroys her personally, completely.

So what about Maggie the Frog's prophecy about Cersei being replaced by a younger, prettier woman?  Supposedly the spoilers say Westeros will be ruled by a council of men.  But if anyone gets the Iron Throne, my guess would now be Sansa (although the council idea rings true to me).

Barring some sort of pleasant surprise or redemption, this ending kills all my enthusiasm for Game of Thrones, and that enthusiasm was considerable.

The problem with this, is that meeting Jon isn't what started her downfall.   Before she fell in love with Jon, she already lost the GreyJoy fleet, the Dornish, the supplies and armies from High Garden, and her unsullied were dispatched to take an abandon castle where all the supplies were taken or burned so if they had stayed there they would have starved to death.  She was already taking serious blows to her allies, armies, and supplies.

1 hour ago, Callista said:

The prophecy doesn't really say that the YMBQ is going to sit on the throne after Cersei. It just says that she will cast Cersei down and take everything that Cersei holds dear. So that's essentially what Dany will do in the next two episodes, and since Dany considers herself a queen, she does fit the role of the YMBQ. 

One could argue that Queen Margery still was the one that ruined Cersei.  Her marriage to Joffery, got him killed, her marriage to Tommon drove Tommen away from Cersei, the death of Joffery unknowingly by Margery's family lead to Tyrion's trail by combat that Killed Oberon that led to the retaliation of the death of Marcella.  Cersei's hatred towards Margery and her attempt remove her from Tommen's life, led to her own incarceration by the faith Militant which 'cast her down' from her place and left her nearly friendless, broken, and afraid.  Essentially destroying the last of her humanity. Technically, Cersei's prophecy was self- fullfilling, she created the circumstances that led to her own self-destruction. It could be that Maggie the Frog, just left out that she would rise again after being cast down.

9 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

Don't want to believe the Bran as King spoiler but between Tyrions conversations with Bran and those looks they've been sharing, I'm starting to get scared.

Some things are off. Or at least appear to be. Brienne  would have to break her vows to Sansa which would be way out of character. Jaime didn't leave until he heard that  Cersei was winning which seems to indicate he's not betraying the north. But yea too much of that is right for me to chalk it up to fan fiction. Perhaps some fake scenes are mixed in with the real. But it's not looking that way.

EC said she filmed at least one fake scene.....so the question is, whether she was telling the truth or not.