Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[ShellsandCheese]

I agree with those who say the recently posted leak just makes no sense for any of the main characters. They'd all have to do things that are really completely out of character when looking at their progression over the course of eight seasons. Especially with Dany. There is nothing to indicate that she would suddenly go mad to the point that she'd have to be killed by Jon.

She just sacrificed her Khalasar to help Northerners who have been nothing but cold to her and her people when she could have just easily took her dragon babies to Kings Landing and been done with that. Let's not forget that Viserion died, because again, she was trying to help Jon get Cersei on board with his plan to fight the AOTD.

Can she be impulsive? Yes. Can she be unyielding? Yes. But she's never been shown to be mad. In fact, the past seven seasons have shown that she is someone capable of change, growth, learning, and considering the advice/counsel of other people. She's never been mad.

Even, when using her dragons she's calm and collected, and its for a very specific reason. It would totally feel out of left field to suddenly have her be just another Mad Queen (with Cersei being the first one); as equally out of left field as those who think Sansa or Bran should sit on the Iron Throne. Or that Sansa and Tyrion are going to live happily ever after.  

[Oscirus]

29 minutes ago, ShellsandCheese said:

I agree with those who say the recently posted leak just makes no sense for any of the main characters. They'd all have to do things that are really completely out of character when looking at their progression over the course of eight seasons. Especially with Dany. There is nothing to indicate that she would suddenly go mad to the point that she'd have to be killed by Jon.

She just sacrificed her Khalasar to help Northerners who have been nothing but cold to her and her people when she could have just easily took her dragon babies to Kings Landing and been done with that. Let's not forget that Viserion died, because again, she was trying to help Jon get Cersei on board with his plan to fight the AOTD.

Can she be impulsive? Yes. Can she be unyielding? Yes. But she's never been shown to be mad. In fact, the past seven seasons have shown that she is someone capable of change, growth, learning, and considering the advice/counsel of other people. She's never been mad.

Even, when using her dragons she's calm and collected, and its for a very specific reason. It would totally feel out of left field to suddenly have her be just another Mad Queen (with Cersei being the first one); as equally out of left field as those who think Sansa or Bran should sit on the Iron Throne. Or that Sansa and Tyrion are going to live happily ever after.  

Other than Missandei, greyworm and two of her dragons, she just lost her entire family to this war. If the north continues to act ungrateful,  I could see her getting pissed. Especially if she continues to get treated as an interloper.

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Oh man, now I'm going to be all emotional with the funerals 😭

I hope the deaths get the proper weight they deserve. Especially House Mormont losing two members including the head of the house! Brutal.

53 minutes ago, Wouter said:

For me, it seems the story is moving towards Jon and Dany marriage and co-ruling, unless one or both don't make it.

I think the writers don’t want us to root for Dany to rule, either with Jon or at all. This whole contrived business with the Tarlys seems specifically calculated to achieve that end. The writers have defended her choice to burn the Tarlys, but I think they knew exactly what they were doing. I had thought Sam would come around, but I really don’t think that’s where they’re going.

50 minutes ago, ShellsandCheese said:

It would totally feel out of left field to suddenly have her be just another Mad Queen (with Cersei being the first one); as equally out of left field as those who think Sansa or Bran should sit on the Iron Throne. Or that Sansa and Tyrion are going to live happily ever after.  

Regardless of her romantic prospects, Sansa’s definitely going to live happily ever after. The writing for her character since her rape has been one big extended apology from the writers. Whether she lives happily ever after with Tyrion remains to be seen, but when two characters with an established history start having meaningful conversations, holding hands and gazing into each other’s eyes for sixty seconds’ worth of show with three episodes remaining in the entire series, well, usually that’s a sign.

More generally, the writing for Sansa/Tyrion on the show was always extremely shippy, as any embittered SanSan shipper would tell you. Sansa and Tyrion living happily ever after would not be out of left field for anyone who picked up on that, as indeed many have. And Sansa and Tyrion ending up together certainly wouldn’t be out of left field for anyone who saw 8x03. 

Edited May 1, 2019 by Eyes High

[Affogato]

12 hours ago, stagmania said:

I completely agree with this and I keep thinking how differently this might have played if they’d set it up properly. All we needed was a scene in ep 2 with Jon and Arya where Jon comes to understand what she has become, they talk about how the NK could possibly be killed and his worry that he won’t be able to do it, and maybe just have an implication that they have a backup plan between the two of them. Then we’ve connected Arya and Jon back together more strongly, Arya has the info she needs to make this play, and it’s more of a shared fulfillment of the prophecy/both their arcs while still giving Arya the ultimate hero moment. It would’ve made so much more sense. 

Arya isn’t a team player. Not a complaint. She has been pretty alone. 

[Affogato]

I keep on thinking that everything is getting cut short. The nightking was a dumb idea IMO because killing him is immediately destroys his armies. It has a built in anticlimax. All of that build up and nothing.  I always thought Arya was going to Ninja him. Still it is a let down and there isn’t any time to find out what the Children of the Forest will do now. Men are still a threat, after all. It seems like a strange time to bring in the Golden Company and Aegon the possibly Targaryon.

The characters are flattening out. Dany was never the strongest character but even Tyrion  is becoming simpler and repeating recognizable quirks instead of thinking and growing. About Dany, I think Jorah was her moral center  and that leaves an opening for her making some bad decisions  

The story also deserves a denouement. Where does the promise of spring fit in?

Edited May 1, 2019 by Affogato

[Minneapple]

2 hours ago, Wouter said:

For me, it seems the story is moving towards Jon and Dany marriage and co-ruling, unless one or both don't make it.

That's a pretty big "unless," but it's a fair speculation. 

[YaddaYadda]

23 minutes ago, Affogato said:

Still it is a let down and there isn’t any time to find out what the Children of the Forest will do now.

The children of the forest are extinct. Besides, the White Walkers became their enemies, so I'm thinking they would cheer with the death of the NK.

24 minutes ago, Affogato said:

It seems like a strange time to bring in the Golden Company and Aegon the possibly Targaryon.

There is no Aegon Targaryen in the story. The character and his entourage have been cut from the show. So thank whatever for small favors.

[Jextella]

4 hours ago, WindyNights said:

Pretty much just luck of the draw. I mean in the books, all his siblings are wargs even Jon so it must be somewhat genetic but Bran seems to be the only one born a greenseer which is why the Three Eyed Raven is interested in him.

Thank you!

[Umbelina]

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In the epilogue, Jon takes the black again for killing Dany. Arya leaves. Sansa rules the North. Bran oversees his council of Tyrion, Davos, Sam, and Bronn.

I could see Bran being the head of a great counsel, and I don't mind the other names listed as part of it either.  Actually, with his greenseer and warging abilities, as well as his removal from the petty urges of most, ability to know the truths of things, he, in most ways, is removed from the "game of thrones" as well, honestly, who better?  The iron throne being destroyed makes total sense as well. 

As I said earlier, religion will have to play into this conclusion somehow, it was too huge in the books to be completely ignored.  Maybe Bran is able to somehow able to see and convey that they are all part of a whole, the Old Gods (the trees) and the new, like the God of Fire and the others.  The counsel would contain a good mix, frankly, especially Tyrion and Bronn, both smart as hell, one from a "royal family" and one a complete commoner.  Sam, the learned one, also from a "royal family" and the amazing Davos, the Onion Knight, completely honorable and well aware of many things that have happened, formerly very poor and a smuggler.

I can see Jon heading back to the wall and beyond, but more as the PTWP, to become the new NK, which, in the books at least, I hope will be explained in more depth.  Maybe there needs to be a NK for balance in the world, and Jon becomes that PTWP?

I really don't believe the show will just ignore the PTWP.

Quote

Pay attention. One face will change everything.

This really seem like it must be about Arya, maybe Jon "finally sees her" because she's changed faces into something remarkable and Jon either sees that happen, or sees through it somehow...something.

Quote

- Euron's fleet takes down Rhaegal.

This would at least explain the inclusion of the vikings as more than just a GRRM tangent, but I would expect the fleet to be destroyed by the dragons, but Euron himself taking down Rhaegal somehow.  Again, possible.

Quote

- Jaime betrays the North.

This also would not be a shocker to me, even in the books, if they ever come.  However, I do think in the books it would be a MUCH better tale.  Whatever version we get in these last few hours, should this one be true?  Will probably suck.

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Missandei is captured.  - Cersei has Missandei executed.

Someone important will have to be captured, and her capture would be heart wrenching so again?  Not out of the realm of possibility to me.

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- Dany's army captures Jaime. Brienne tries to talk to him but he refuses.

I do not expect a happy ending for Jamie, and I do expect a final and heartbreaking scene between Brienne and Jamie, so again?  Plausible to me, but also could be fan fiction or easily guessed at.

Quote

- Sansa tells Tyrion about Jon's lineage. Tyrion tells Varys.

Um, duh?

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- Varys betrays Dany because he thinks Jon would be a better ruler.

I can see both happening pretty easily.

Quote

- Dany has Varys executed. Dany assaults King's Landing and it's one-sided as hell.

Dany don't play, so if Varys does the first, this is also likely.  Dragons and KL is a tinderbox, so...

Quote

- Tyrion begs her to show mercy but she refuses.

Again, both actions seem in character for both.

Quote

- Tyrion frees Jaime to try to get Cersei out of the city.

Tyrion will have to be involved in something, he pretty much sat out the last battle, so again?  Plausible.  Also, I think Tyrion is pretty honorable, and would save Jamie certainly.  Show Cersei is so different in many ways from book Cersei, this could happen I suppose.

Quote

- King's Landing gets wrecked in the battle. Drogon burns Euron's fleet.

So, does Drogon burn the fleet AFTER Euron's fleet kills Rhaegar?  Hmmm

Quote

- The Hound fights his brother. They both die.

This is likely, book and show.  It will make me sad though, because I love the Hound, and would rather see him on the counsel.

Quote

- Jaime fights Euron and kills him, but Jaime is mortally wounded.

Predictable.

Quote

- Jaime makes it to Cersei and they die together.

I really detest the Jaime/Cersei crap.  I kind of love Jaime, and I detest Cersei, so yuck, but this also seems possible.  All I care about is who kills Cersei!  Come on now.  I hope Jaime at least kills her so they can both die together.

Quote

- Dany is executing everyone in King's Landing. Jon and Tyrion are upset.

Sounds like Dany, and I think Jon and Tyrion would be upset.

Quote

- Dany has Tyrion arrested to be executed for freeing Jaime.

Again, Dany doesn't play with anything even remotely resembling betrayal or hindrance to her taking the throne, so again, very possible.

Quote

- Tyrion tries to convince Jon that his family will never be safe because his lineage makes him a threat to Dany's rule.

Tyrion telling Jon the truth also seems likely, especially if Dany is in her "kill them all" frame of mind after losing another dragon, and again, this would be the culmination of her entire life's work, anyone standing in her way in any way?  Would be an enemy.

Quote

- Jon tries to talk to Dany but she justifies her actions.

This is another "duh" because if the other stuff is true?  I think both would happen.

Quote

- Jon pledges himself to Dany but then stabs her, then surrenders himself.

"Pay attention. One face will change everything."  Will it really be Jon?

Quote

only one dragon is left

fits with the other spoilers

Quote

something to do with a scorpion needle one of the dragons and the lannisters? idk if I heard him correctly.

Maybe this is how Euron kills Rhaegar?

Quote

last three episodes are in front of king's landing

Well Crap.
 

Quote

the undead things are dealt with in the first three episodes

misandai (?) maybe dies? he doesn't know

cersei makes a meat shield of all the innocent people to stop them from coming in

the dragon blasts through all the people/doesn't care

"arya is useless"

there's a scene where a horse gets ripped in half by the dragon

cersei is watching the dragon coming in, and the witch doctor is like 'we should leave'

there's a sort of 'flashback' where she thinks about how she blew up something in her city (I don't know what the fuck he was talking about here, but I recorded it anyway) and the dragon blowing things up reminds her of that?

the hound and his brother fight and they end up both dying in fire by falling in

"he finally takes the helmet off the ugly guy"

cersei goes into the chambers where you first see the "catapult things"

jaime shows up and they're all omg and they hold each other and everything crumbles

the dragon enters the throne room and fucks shit up

the iron throne gets melted by the dragon

I can see Cersei about to use the fire things as well.  I can also see that ugly throne melted by dragons.

I'm not saying I believe the spoilers, just dissecting them a bit.

Edited May 1, 2019 by Umbelina
fixed boo boo

[GraceK]

The meat shield part got me 😂😂😂😂🙄

[GraceK]

17 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Tyrion tries to convince Jon that his family will never be safe because his lineage makes him a threat to Dany's rule.

This right here. Why does Jon care about the Lannister’s? Jaime betrayed the North, Cersei made a meat shield, and clearly Tyrion is shysty 😂😂😂😂😂. But yes, Kill Dany to save the Lannister’s!!!! 😆

Edited May 1, 2019 by GraceK

[GraceK]

I’m wondering if those pictures that leaked of Jon meeting Cersei in Kings Landing was actually Arya?? 😳 that would be awesome!

[glowbug]

4 hours ago, GraceK said:

This right here. Why does Jon care about the Lannister’s? Jaime betrayed the North, Cersei made a meat shield, and clearly Tyrion is shysty 😂😂😂😂😂. But yes, Kill Dany to save the Lannister’s!!!! 😆

I think you misread this. Tyrion convinces Jon that Jon will never be safe because Jon being a Targaryen is a threat to Dany’s rule. I don’t think either interpretation is believable. I don’t think it’s believable that Dany will be a threat to Jon or that he will believe she is. There is not enough time to set that up given they’re in love and Dany has just saved Jon’s life. 

Edited May 1, 2019 by glowbug

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, GraceK said:

This right here. Why does Jon care about the Lannister’s? Jaime betrayed the North, Cersei made a meat shield, and clearly Tyrion is shysty 😂😂😂😂😂. But yes, Kill Dany to save the Lannister’s!!!! 😆

Jon's family will never be safe, not the Lannister's.  Why would Lannister linage be a threat to Dany?  

Edited May 1, 2019 by Morrigan2575

[GraceK]

6 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Jon's family will never be safe, not the Lannister's.  Why would Lannister linage be a threat to Dany?  

Apparently I misread the original, I thought Tyrion was talking to Jon about his family, but to your Point::

Jon is her family too. And if Sansa stops being a bitch, there shouldn’t be a problem. Sansa right now is the only Stark causing conflict, because so far, Dany has made no problems and Jon doesn’t want the throne. The solution is looking everyone in the face and that’s marriage and then to hand Sansa Winterfell. The only way Dany will ever threaten her Stark relatives is if they plot against her. That’s why this whole leak is stupid. 

[Callista]

2 hours ago, GraceK said:

The meat shield part got me 😂😂😂😂🙄

And Qyburn the witch doctor  😄

[WindyNights]

9 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

The so-called leaks are fanfic and wishful thinking, but it doesn't mean the theories they support come out of nowhere. Fleaks have a common point, they always "make sense" and cater to a part of the fandom; real leaks like Awaysforthelads' don't, they're different in a very subtle way. Had one of those given extremely bold or original particular details like "Lyanna Mormont kills a giant" then it would be some kind of proof now; but everything I've seen is in the range of your typical educated guesses. It's like the lottery, some are luckier than others.

I only gave some credit to the people who had hard evidence of intel or a track record (WoMB, BSB; Frikidoctor) and relied only on filming info, and yet as soon as one steps away from those pure facts, everything goes off base. It's because those facts are too disconnected and we have no context at all. For example I (and others) thought that Cogman was playing coy with the "final battle" in 8x03: I knew there would be other battles on the show because there's another one in 8x05, and a naval battle, too, was filmed outside. Turns out, it was indeed the final AOTD battle (unless Qyburn played apprenti sorcerer and re-created some wights from some Dumb Cunt 2 parts he somehow retrived, LOL). So I'm not going to take the word of a nobody with no track record and no proof, not after the 999 trolls of the off-season.

The theories themselves are another business. One would have to be soft in the head to have missed the Mad Kweeeen Dany "foreshadowing" after watching S7. It was as subtle as, let's say, the Jon vs NK showdown "foreshadowing"...see what I mean? I don't believe in this particular one for reasons I stated upthread (show vs tell re: Daenerys' behavior) more than I believed the SaNsADiEs fleaks during the off season. It doesn't mean those theories aren't out there, like any other speculation.

The guy that leaked Arya kills the NK by getting the drop on him, Theon charging the NK and dying and Lyanna Mormont being turned into a wight also said Jon kills Daenerys (although not for any specific reason that he knows)

[anamika]

7 hours ago, Eyes High said:

I think the writers don’t want us to root for Dany to rule, either with Jon or at all. This whole contrived business with the Tarlys seems specifically calculated to achieve that end. The writers have defended her choice to burn the Tarlys, but I think they knew exactly what they were doing. I had thought Sam would come around, but I really don’t think that’s where they’re going. 

The writing is not clear on what they want the audience to decide. Maybe they want to leave us undecided. After all wise guy Davos mentioned in the first episode -  "What if for the first time in it's shit history Westeros was ruled by a just woman and a honorable man" and Missandei made a justified jab at Sansa about the dragon queen saving them all this episode and Dany was certainly being a hero.  People who don't like Dany and think her entitled and arrogant still think that way and people who like her still like her. The dislike quotient for Dany increased slightly because everyone likes the Starks and she was getting snark and hate from them.

But now that she has saved the North, and we see the North cheering her on in the next episode, and it's going to be Dany Vs Cersei, it will be interesting to see how they write it.

7 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Whether she lives happily ever after with Tyrion remains to be seen, but when two characters with an established history start having meaningful conversations, holding hands and gazing into each other’s eyes for sixty seconds’ worth of show with three episodes remaining in the entire series, well, usually that’s a sign.

There is some basis for Sansa and Tyrion in the books. And GRRM has kept them married.

I would think that logically Sansa would dislike the Lannisters more than she does Dany. Considering they killed her family, abused her, married her forcefully, imprisoned her etc. and all Dany has done thus far is save her home and love her brother. But the show is telling me otherwise and that the major issue Sansa apparently has with Tyrion is only Dany.

It could be that they plot together against Jon/Dany.

[GraceK]

33 minutes ago, anamika said:

would think that logically Sansa would dislike the Lannisters more than she does Dany. Considering they killed her family, abused her, married her forcefully, imprisoned her etc. and all Dany has done thus far is save her home and love her brother. But the show is telling me otherwise and that the major issue Sansa apparently has with Tyrion is only Dany.

It could be that they plot together against Jon/Dany.

It’s very bizarre. I mean, what does Sansa hope to gain? Does she think that Cersei on the iron throne will be more susceptible to Northern independence? Or does she genuinely think she can out maneuver them both and claim the throne for herself?  Because I can’t see any justification for her hardcore distrust and hatred of Dany, especially after the newest  episode, especially when Cersei is still a problem. So yes, I call bull on these leaks.

Edited May 1, 2019 by GraceK

[LadyPenelope]

I don’t think Sansa wants the throne - she just wants to be left alone and for the North to rule itself. Whether it’s Dany or Cersei preventing that doesn’t seem to make much difference to her. I hope that changes next episode after seeing Dany fight, die, and lose the people she cared about most in order to keep Winterfell and its inhabitants safe. 

Leaving aside Jon/Dany/Sansa for a sec, what do we think Jaime is going to do now? He hasn’t acknowledged Dany as his queen, and surely he won’t join the attack on King’s Landing. But he also can’t waltz back home and pretend everything is cool. So what are they going to do with him?

[BadAssRobinArryn]

37 minutes ago, GraceK said:

1 hour ago, anamika said:

But the show is telling me otherwise and that the major issue Sansa apparently has with Tyrion is only Dany.

It could be that they plot together against Jon/Dany.

This is because Dany is the one Tyrion is currently loyal to and Sansa's and Dany's aims are at odds with each other. It does not mean Sansa has bigger problems with Cersei than with Dany. She spent basically a third her screentime telling everyone, how dangerous Cersei is. But Cersei does not stand between Tyrion and Sansa, Dany does (unwittingly).

[anamika]

1 hour ago, BadAssRobinArryn said:

This is because Dany is the one Tyrion is currently loyal to and Sansa's and Dany's aims are at odds with each other. It does not mean Sansa has bigger problems with Cersei than with Dany. She spent basically a third her screentime telling everyone, how dangerous Cersei is. But Cersei does not stand between Tyrion and Sansa, Dany does (unwittingly).

So Sansa does not hold it against Tyrion that he actively participated in the war against her family which her brother fought, helped in her imprisonment and married her against her will while in KL? And the ONLY issue that she has with him is that he is Dany's hand?

I would think that Sansa and Dany's aims should continue to align for some time yet. Winter is over. Spring is here. The North is decimated and Cersei has a large army ready to go. How is Sansa planning to defend the North?

Their number one goal should be to get rid of Cersei - Tyrion's sister. The sister that Tyrion trusted to help them. The sister that Tyrion was trying to keep alive last season while deliberately hobbling Dany's plans. Jaime too wants his pregnant sister and lover alive and Tyrion loves and supports that brother too. Sansa does not think Tyrion's divided loyalties to the Lannisters is a problem?

Now, coming to the North, Sansa is going to have an issue over who rules the North whether it be Jon or Dany. She has not agreed with a single decision Jon has made so far and has fostered resentment  against him while he was away. She wants to rule the North as opposed to Jon - so even if Dany fucks off, Sansa is still going to have a problem and we would probably get a Stark civil war not too far off into the future.

Because otherwise, what's the issue in being ruled by someone who listens to and takes Jon's advice?

Let's take the Jaime scene.

As usual, Sansa makes it seem like an order - We SHOULD let him go free because I trust Brienne

Then Dany asks Jon - What does the warden of the north think?

Jon:  Well, we need all the men we can get.

Then he leaves it upto Dany to make the decision.

Dany thinks about it and lets Jaime go.

The problem for Sansa here would be if Jon disagreed with Sansa's decision - as he usually does. Because Dany would ultimately listen to Jon and not Sansa.

And that's why she's pissed. Dany lends power and legitimacy to Jon's rule.  As LF told her last season - together, Jon/Dany would be hard to defeat. So it's not exactly Dany she has a problem with. It's Jon.

Gwendoline Christie talked about Sansa's 'irrepressible ambition and desire to rule' and I think if Sansa/Tyrion plot together it's going to be against both Jon/Dany and not just Dany. How can it be otherwise? She clearly knows now that Jon loves Dany.  Once she knows Jon's Targaryen heritage it's only going to get worse.

The next episode should give us a clue as to how all this goes down.
 

Edited May 1, 2019 by anamika

[Affogato]

Of course if Jon kills euron, water, a lannister (lion) and Dany, his beloved, he can bring lightbringer back into the world. Maybe killing the NK wasnt the end of darkness. 

[Happy Harpy]

3 hours ago, WindyNights said:

The guy that leaked Arya kills the NK by getting the drop on him, Theon charging the NK and dying and Lyanna Mormont being turned into a wight also said Jon kills Daenerys (although not for any specific reason that he knows)

Yes, and to me it belongs to the realm of educated guesses: Arya is a stealth assassin, heroïc charge is a trope (NK possibly after Bran, Theon needing to redeem re:Bran) and about every character has been fleak-turned into a wight.

Nothing specific enough to convince me.

[Oscirus]

10 minutes ago, anamika said:

So Sansa does not hold it against Tyrion that he actively participated in the war against her family which her brother fought, helped in her imprisonment and married her against her will while in KL? And the ONLY issue that she has with him is that he is Dany's hand?

I would think that Sansa and Dany's aims should continue to align for some time yet. Their number one goal should be to get rid of Cersei - Tyrion's sister. The sister that Tyrion trusted to help them. The sister that Tyrion was trying to keep alive last season while deliberately hobbling Dany's plans. Jaime too wants his pregnant sister and lover alive and Tyrion loves and supports that brother too. Sansa knows this but seems to not have a problem with it.

Now, coming to the North, Sansa is going to have an issue over who rules the North whether it be Jon or Dany. She has not agreed with a single decision Jon has made so far and has fostered resentment  against him while he was away. She wants to rule the North as opposed to Jon - so even if Dany fucks off, Sansa is still going to have a problem and we would probably get a Stark civil war not too far off into the future.

Because otherwise, what's the issue in being ruled by someone who listens to and takes Jon's advice?

Let's take the Jaime scene.

As usual, Sansa makes it seem like an order - We SHOULD let him go free because I trust Brienne

Then Dany asks Jon - What does the warden of the north think?

Jon:  Well, we need all the men we can get.

Then he leaves it upto Dany to make the decision.

Dany thinks about it and lets Jaime go.

The problem for Sansa here would be if Jon disagreed with Sansa's decision - as he usually does. Because Dany would ultimately listen to Jon and not Sansa.

And that's why she's pissed. Dany lends power and legitimacy to Jon's rule.  As LF told her last season - together, Jon/Dany would be hard to defeat. So it's not exactly Dany she has a problem with. It's Jon.

Gwendoline Christie talked about Sansa's 'irrepressible ambition and desire to rule' and I think if Sansa/Tyrion plot together it's going to be against both Jon/Dany and not just Dany. How can it be otherwise? She clearly knows now that Jon loves Dany.  Once she knows Jon's Targaryen heritage it's only going to get worse.

The next episode should give us a clue as to how all this goes down.
 

Tyrion's a diplomat not a war guy, that's why his war against Cersei sucked because other than defending the castle, he has no experience.  He definitely wasn't trying to keep her alive. But he was right about the Tarleys even if they did bring it on themselves. So he was good with the diplomacy aspect but sucked when it came down to figuring out how to attack.

As for Sansa, believe it or not, at the moment her goals align with Cersei's. As long as Cersei doesn't fuck with northern independence,  Sansa's not bothered about Cersei's rule. The dragon queen on the other hand wants the North underhand and has the political capital to do so. So her biggest opponent is Dany.  

Jon's aligned with nobody at the moment. His feeling on Dany are conflicted at best and he just became a threat to her. North aint the happiest with him (  his most vociferous supporter being dead) either.  No need for Sansa to turn on him it would only piss off Arya, and that's a headache she don't need.

[anamika]

10 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

He definitely wasn't trying to keep her alive.

He was. He admitted as much to Cersei - that the only reason she was still alive was because of him holding back Dany.

11 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

As for Sansa, believe it or not, at the moment her goals align with Cersei's. As long as Cersei doesn't fuck with northern independence,  Sansa's not bothered about Cersei's rule.

You think Cersei is not going to fuck with the North?

12 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

Jon's aligned with nobody at the moment. His feeling on Dany are conflicted at best and he just became a threat to her.

Jon bend the knee to Dany. He is allied with her. Dany saved Jon's life last season and loves him. I doubt she sees him as a threat that needs to be taken out.

13 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

No need for Sansa to turn on him it would only piss off Arya, and that's a headache she don't need. 

Arya now thinks that Sansa is the smartest ever and warned Jon in episode one that it's all about the Starks now and he better remember that or else!

[Wouter]

There is no indication whatsoever that Sansa and Tyrion would plot against Jon/Dany. Tyrion is, by all appearances, loyal to Dany and stands to gain (for example, Casterly Rock) if she becomes undisputed ruler (or even co-ruler, with Jon). Now with Jaime alive in the north, there is no angle for betrayal there either, unless Jaime ends up switching back to Cersei's side (but with Cersei having put a price on his head, even though it was in private, this seems unlikely).

Sansa does not like being under the thumb of the Targaryens, but she did pledge to Dany that she/the north would help fight Cersei, who is an enemy of the north in general and Sansa in particular.

Friki's leak is probably by far the most important reason why people think Tyrion would betray the Starks, or Dany, or the Stark/Dany alliance. It's either true or not. If not, the case for Tyrion being a traitor at all is thin. If true, that Friki also explicitly says that Sansa is alive and kicking and part of the jury. So it seems very unlikely that they plot together, in that case.

The expected outcome of ASOIAF for me is still that Dany and Jon will rule together. Now that they have both survived the army of the death, without the need for a heroic sacrifice, those chances have only increased. I don't think they will clash with each other, Dany will probably accept the truth (about his parentage) at some point and Jon has every reason to work together with her.

It's possible that one of them would still fall in the war against Cersei, but I doubt it after they survived the NK. The war against Cersei is more like the scouring of the Shire, a rearguard action after the main threat has been dealt with.

One thing that must still be addressed, once they are firmly together, is heirs/children. There is still no definite indication if either can get children, with Dany supposedly barren and Jon's magical resurrection.

Edited May 1, 2019 by Wouter

[merrick715]

I see we've moved on from Dark Dany, and returned back to a classic, Dark Sansa. Why should female characters be the only ones to turn to evil, and betray everyone? In the interest of equality, I think Jon's going to turn dark. Think about it, has Jon ever been, as big as a flop, as he was the last episode. Last week, he truly had the reverse Midas touch. What if Jon using the Dothraki as cavalry was just a means for him to take out a large amount of Dany's army. The same army that was only loyal to her.

[Eyes High]

4 hours ago, anamika said:

The writing is not clear on what they want the audience to decide. Maybe they want to leave us undecided. After all wise guy Davos mentioned in the first episode -  "What if for the first time in it's shit history Westeros was ruled by a just woman and a honorable man"

But in that same episode, the idea that Dany was in fact a "just woman" was questioned by Sam.

Quote

But now that she has saved the North, and we see the North cheering her on in the next episode, and it's going to be Dany Vs Cersei, it will be interesting to see how they write it.

Yeah, Sansa's ally Lord Royce was one of the rowdy men cheering on Dany. It will be very interesting. I'm also interested in the empty chairs next to Dany. Did Jon bail early on the party?

Quote

There is some basis for Sansa and Tyrion in the books. And GRRM has kept them married.

While their relationship is much colder in the books, GRRM has left just enough wiggle room in the books for Tyrion and Sansa ending up together to not be the craziest thing ever. Just enough.

I know it's a Jonsa fan theory that the writing for Jonerys' romance in S7 was rushed and terrible because the writers didn't want the audience to get overly invested. I and I think a lot of people concluded at the time that D&D are just bad at writing romance and that's why the writing for the Jonerys relationship fell a little flat.

Now that we're well into S8, though, I think that it seems more likely that the Jonsa shippers were right on this one, although not for the reasons they thought. Grey Worm and Missandei's love scene and overall relationship are incredibly romantic. Jaime knighting Brienne is incredibly romantic. Tyrion kissing Sansa's hand before facing what he thought was certain death is incredibly romantic.

D&D can write great romance just fine. They just chose not to with Jonerys.

Quote

But the show is telling me otherwise and that the major issue Sansa apparently has with Tyrion is only Dany.

Yeah, it seemed to be Sansa low key spelling out that she doesn't care about Tyrion's name or his height anymore.

On another note, I really hope 8x04 doesn't skip all the reunions between people who weren't sure if their loved ones had died--Starklings, Lannister brothers, etc.--and people learning about their friends dying (Theon/Sansa, Jon/Edd, etc.). Those seem like really important emotional beats, and I hope the show doesn't just skip to the mass cremation.

Edited May 1, 2019 by Eyes High

[anamika]

4 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Grey Worm and Missandei's love scene and overall relationship are incredibly romantic. Jaime knighting Brienne is incredibly romantic. Tyrion kissing Sansa's hand before facing what he thought was certain death is incredibly romantic.

D&D can write great romance just fine. They just chose not to with Jonerys. 

Well, it's all subjective and I thought Jon/Dany were rushed but fine last season. The writing this season for them has been incredibly cheesy and terrible - 'Cold for a southern girl. Then keep your queen warm' - not even good actors can make that line work in the freezing cold of Iceland. 

Besides GW/Missandei, Jaime/Brienne, Sansa/Tyrion etc. have seasons of history between them. D&D themselves admitted to having rushed this relationship - these guys met and fell in love in the span of 7 episodes and that's all we have.

I doubt D&D intentionally wrote Jon/Dany badly because it's going to end badly. That makes no sense. If Jon is going to kill Dany - they need it to be as tragic and sad as possible. Which means they need it to make it as good as possible. Emilia called them - star crossed lovers.

And I don't think Sansa and Tyrion are going to end up all happy together either because Tyrion kissed Sansa's hand in the crypts. She's more ruthless now and if he's the soppy fool they have written him to be thus far, it will be interesting to watch if she indeed plays him. Now THAT would actually make her out to be the smart character everyone talks about.

[QuinnM]

19 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

On another note, I really hope 8x04 doesn't skip all the reunions between people who weren't sure if their loved ones had died--Starklings, Lannister brothers, etc.--and people learning about their friends dying (Theon/Sansa, Jon/Edd, etc.). Those seem like really important emotional beats, and I hope the show doesn't just skip to the mass cremation.

If they just skip to , later the next day I will be pissed.  I know the song is Cersei’s statement, Power is power, but knowledge is power.  I think who knows what will determine how people go forward for the throne.

Jon is the rightful heir.  So Bran, Sam, and Dany know this.

Arya is a lethal weapon.  So Bran, Sansa, Gendry, Brienne, Pod, and now Davos knows this.  It’s quite possible that the Hound knows as well.

Arya killed the NK.  Bran and Arya.  But I have to think that the second the dead fell Jon continued to Bran.  So it’s very possible he knows.  Again quite possible that the Hound knows as well.

[SeanC]

Seeing Royce in the 804 trailer, as well as that Unsullied column, would suggest to me that there’s going to be a suspiciously large number of Team Stargaryen soldiers left over compared to what you’d think based on 803, where Winterfell looks to be inhabited almost exclusively by main characters at the end.

[Eyes High]

25 minutes ago, anamika said:

And I don't think Sansa and Tyrion are going to end up all happy together either because Tyrion kissed Sansa's hand in the crypts. She's more ruthless now and if he's the soppy fool they have written him to be thus far, it will be interesting to watch if she indeed plays him. Now THAT would actually make her out to be the smart character everyone talks about.

Sansa has never lied to Tyrion about how she felt about him. That could change in S8, but I haven't seen any indication of that thus far, even when it would have served Sansa's interests to do so. In fact, the writing for 8x03 seemed calculated to ensure that viewers would believe that Sansa was being sincere, given just how bad things got.

And it's not just "oh, a hand kiss means they're endgame," it's the surrounding context. As I said upthread, when characters with an established history have a long, emotional moment with gazing into each other's eyes and hand kisses and such with only three episodes to go, it's usually a sign. It may not be in this particular instance (Tyrion trial Friki information, Bran's inscrutable looks at Tyrion, etc.), but usually that's a sign. The fact that the writers and cast aren't saying anything about that particular moment in the BTS videos also strikes me as very odd given how chatty they usually are about big emotional moments on the show.

14 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

If they just skip to , later the next day I will be pissed.

I also want to see Arya mobbed by grateful Northerners, lifted on someone's shoulders and carried around reverently like the saviour she is. Basically, a "Mhysa" moment without the racist overtones.

Edited May 1, 2019 by Eyes High

[Wouter]

12 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Seeing Royce in the 804 trailer, as well as that Unsullied column, would suggest to me that there’s going to be a suspiciously large number of Team Stargaryen soldiers left over compared to what you’d think based on 803, where Winterfell looks to be inhabited almost exclusively by main characters at the end.

Lord Royce himself was nowhere to be seen during the fighting. Must have been protecting the food stores, which probably were also untouched, together with a sizable force of Dany's and Jon's armies.

It did annoy me a little that the walls of Winterfell seemed to be barely defended during the battle (the dead broke through in like one minute), but named characters just continued to mow down wights while completely surrounded or even crushed by them.

I know its fiction and we have to expect compromises on TV, but I think Helm's Deep was done better as a high stakes fictional battle, even with Gimli and Legolas as non-stop killing machines.

[QuinnM]

13 hours ago, ShellsandCheese said:

Even, when using her dragons she's calm and collected, and its for a very specific reason. It would totally feel out of left field to suddenly have her be just another Mad Queen (with Cersei being the first one); as equally out of left field as those who think Sansa or Bran should sit on the Iron Throne. Or that Sansa and Tyrion are going to live happily ever after.  

She was fairly calm and collected when she watched Kahl Drogo pour molten gold over her brothers head.  Simply brushed it aside that a dragon would not have been burned.  So that makes the case that she has some crazy going on.

[anamika]

37 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

And it's not just "oh, a hand kiss means they're endgame," it's the surrounding context. As I said upthread, when characters with an established history have a long, emotional moment with gazing into each other's eyes and hand kisses and such with only three episodes to go, it's usually a sign

I am not seeing it really. It could be with this show, who knows. But I don't think it is. Sansa was basically like you were a better husband that Ramsay and Tyrion rightfully calls that terrible. To be better than Ramsay Bolton is a pretty low bar I would say. Then Sansa brings Dany into the picture because she's still pissed and Missandei shuts that down. Nothing more to chat about. Then think they are going to die and hold hands and Tyrion kisses it saying goodbye to each other.

Like I said, I think if there is more to Sansa and Tyrion - it's either one of these characters using the other for their own personal reasons/plotting together to get rid of Jon/Dany or Sansa and Tyrion working against each other.

If Sansa survives till the end, there is no reason for her to remarry Tyrion. And she does not love him like that. Not in the books or the show.

[Callista]

32 minutes ago, QuinnM said:

She was fairly calm and collected when she watched Kahl Drogo pour molten gold over her brothers head.  Simply brushed it aside that a dragon would not have been burned.  So that makes the case that she has some crazy going on.

Sansa was fairly calm and collected when she watched Ramsay being eaten by his dogs.

Arya was fairly calm and collected when she watched the Freys dropping dead from the food she'd poisoned.

Tyrion was fairly calm and collected as he shot Tywin dead.

So, following your logic, that makes the case that Sansa, Arya, and Tyrion (just to mention a few) also have some crazy going on. So many crazy characters! Dany's in great company. 🙂

Edited May 1, 2019 by Callista

[tangerine95]

I'm honestly not sure what I think about the Sansa and Tyrion scenes.They definitely had some romantic vibe happening but idk if it's necessarily a sign they'll end up together or even that their feelings about each other will be relevant going forward.I could see it both way.As set up for them deciding to get married again.Or I could also see it as a way to bring up Tyrion's divided loyalties when it comes to Dany and just an emotional scene,brought on by the fact that they might die, between basically the only two main characters in the crypts.

I do think they would probably be perfect for each at this point tho.They both think they're smarter than anyone else and can just judge people together lol

[Constantinople]

In the Season 5 premiere, after Tyrion and Varys take their boat ride to Pentos, Varys tells Tyrion where they are

Quote

The home of my colleague. Ilyrio Mopatis. A merchant. He and I met many years ago, through mutual friends. A group of people who saw Robert Baratheon for the disaster he was. We tried to do what was best for the realm by supporting the Targaryen restoration.

I can understand TV Varys's concern about the realm since he already lived there. But as far as I recall, the TV show never has explained why TV Ilyrio gives three shakes of a rat's ankle about the (Seven Kingdoms) realm. And I doubt it will be explained

[MarySNJ]

43 minutes ago, anamika said:

I am not seeing it really. It could be with this show, who knows. But I don't think it is. Sansa was basically like you were a better husband that Ramsay and Tyrion rightfully calls that terrible. To be better than Ramsay Bolton is a pretty low bar I would say. Then Sansa brings Dany into the picture because she's still pissed and Missandei shuts that down. Nothing more to chat about. Then think they are going to die and hold hands and Tyrion kisses it saying goodbye to each other.

Like I said, I think if there is more to Sansa and Tyrion - it's either one of these characters using the other for their own personal reasons/plotting together to get rid of Jon/Dany or Sansa and Tyrion working against each other.

If Sansa survives till the end, there is no reason for her to remarry Tyrion. And she does not love him like that. Not in the books or the show.

I don’t object to the idea of a Sansa/Tyrion endgame at least on the show, but I don’t think that scene was Tyrion demonstrating his love for her. More like “have courage, we’re in this together” and a goodbye, as they expected to die. 

They can be fond of each other without being in love. I could see Sansa and Tyrion staying married as a good political match, if it weren’t for Sansa’s reluctance to give up being de facto Queen in the North. 

[anamika]

3 minutes ago, MarySNJ said:

 I could see Sansa and Tyrion staying married as a good political match, if it weren’t for Sansa’s reluctance to give up being de facto Queen in the North. 

Yeah, pretty much. Show Sansa is being written as someone who wants to be the top dog of the North. How would getting together with Tyrion make that happen? And she currently does not think too highly of Tyrion's intelligence, plus he is working for her enemy.

Whether they become enemies working against each other as Friki suggests or together against Dany as some other leaks suggest, I think they have separate endgames.

I think show Tyrion still wants Casterly Rock if I am not wrong.

[MarySNJ]

Just now, anamika said:

Yeah, pretty much. Show Sansa is being written as someone who wants to be the top dog of the North. How would getting together with Tyrion make that happen? And she currently does not think too highly of Tyrion's intelligence, plus he is working for her enemy.

Whether they become enemies working against each other as Friki suggests or together against Dany as some other leaks suggest, I think they have separate endgames.

I think show Tyrion still wants Casterly Rock if I am not wrong.

After she took a crack at Tyrion’s intelligence for believing Cersei, she defended him to Daenerys. He wasn’t the only one to make that mistake. 

All I’m saying is, if it weren’t for Sansa and Tyrion supporting different political goals at the current time, I could see them being compatible. I don’t ship them as a romantic pairing, but I think they would make a good team if they were to end up on the same side.

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, tangerine95 said:

I do think they would probably be perfect for each at this point tho.They both think they're smarter than anyone else and can just judge people together lol

Ha! There's a great quote from Cougar Town "My only interests are drinking wine and judging people," and that's Tyrion in a nutshell. I dunno about the wine part, but Sansa would definitely be down with judging everyone. She does that already.

We'll have to see about Sansa/Tyrion. My opinion is that the writing for the TV version of the relationship has always been shippy as fuck, the whole crypt moment hand kiss was shippy as fuck, and that introducing such scenes this late in the game is usually a sign of an endgame pairing. Also, anyone who claims that the hand kiss was platonic or a sign of deep friendship and respect is being willfully blind at this point. There's nothing platonic whatsoever about that shit.

In Band of Brothers, a 10-episode miniseries about a closely bonded group of ostensibly straight male soldiers facing peril and almost-certain death over and over and over again, there was no hand kissing before rushing into battle. Why? Because hand kissing is not a platonic expression of deep friendship or admiration. 

And for those who doubt my powers of TV prognostication when it comes to predictable storyline beats, when @Constantinople asked about how the Hound would deal with fire in the upcoming battle, I said this on Friday:

Quote

He will heroically overcome his fear of fire at a crucial moment to do what must be done, redeeming himself for his past cowardice. That's usually how these things go.

And what happened? He overcame his fear of fire at a crucial moment to save Arya.

D&D are not particularly subtle, mysterious writers, and they follow the same rules most TV writers follow. Once you've watched enough TV, the patterns tend to emerge, and romantic storyline writing usually follows certain specific, predictable beats. I've seen those beats in the writing for Sansa/Tyrion in previous seasons, and I'm seeing them now, too.

I mean, it's simple and superficial to look at Sansa's comment about how it wouldn't work between them and assume that to be the writers giving Tyrion and Sansa some closure, but is that really what's going on, or is it the writers signaling that Sansa no longer considers Tyrion's dwarfism and family a dealbreaker? It's simple and superficial to look at Sansa and Tyrion holding hands as a meaningless moment of friendship between two main characters, but is that really what's going on, or is it that the writers went to a lot of trouble to create a situation where Tyrion and Sansa are driven to a point where they have this moment of connection? 

If you really want an example of a book ship that's been sunk in S8, look no further than SanSan. They have had not a single scene together in S8, and all of Sandor's meaningful interactions in S8 have been reserved for Arya. Even the most hopeful of SanSan shippers have grudgingly conceded that their ship is not going to happen in the show. SanSan has been methodically excised from the show in favour of Sandor's surrogate father relationship with Arya, while Sansa and Tyrion's relationship has been played up. Even as early as S2, the focus of big SanSan scenes was being shifted to Tyrion (the throne room scene, the riot scene). If SanSan has been sunk in S8, whatever's happening with Sansa and Tyrion is the opposite of that. 

Edited May 1, 2019 by Eyes High

[Advance35]

Quote

I'm honestly not sure what I think about the Sansa and Tyrion scenes.They definitely had some romantic vibe happening but idk if it's necessarily a sign they'll end up together or even that their feelings about each other will be relevant going forward.I could see it both way.As set up for them deciding to get married again.Or I could also see it as a way to bring up Tyrion's divided loyalties when it comes to Dany and just an emotional scene,brought on by the fact that they might die, between basically the only two main characters in the crypts.

I do think they would probably be perfect for each at this point tho.They both think they're smarter than anyone else and can just judge people together lol

I'm pretty much with you on your reading.  However, I thought their scenes were more romantic than the majority of the couples the show has tried to sell.

I was actually surprised Tyrion was so blase about Sansa's aversion to Dany.  Missandrei was pissed.  But after her outburst, it looked like Tyrion was giving Missandrei a look of exasperation, not Sansa.

I don't for one moment think Tyrion agrees with Sansa about Dany but he's not one to appreciate Sansa being chastised either.  It'll be interesting to see his reaction when Dany has to press the issue with Sansa, in terms of where she fits in on the hierarchy and all that comes with it.

[anamika]

So for the next episode, we know that Jon/Davos/Dany etc. , Dany's boats and armies leave for Dragonstone. What if Sansa, Arya and Bran are left behind and then the GC attack WF? The Starks try to defend it with their meager resources and Sansa sends a scroll via raven warning Jon of treachery?

Considering Dany is marching her armies south, it should be possible for Cersei to march her armies north now that spring has come.

There's also Bronn. I don't know if he is going to wait till Jaime/Tyrion get to KL.

[Bannon]

12 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I could see Bran being the head of a great counsel, and I don't mind the other names listed as part of it either.  Actually, with his greenseer and warging abilities, as well as his removal from the petty urges of most, ability to know the truths of things, he, in most ways, is removed from the "game of thrones" as well, honestly, who better?  The iron throne being destroyed makes total sense as well. 

As I said earlier, religion will have to play into this conclusion somehow, it was too huge in the books to be completely ignored.  Maybe Bran is able to somehow able to see and convey that they are all part of a whole, the Old Gods (the trees) and the new, like the God of Fire and the others.  The counsel would contain a good mix, frankly, especially Tyrion and Bronn, both smart as hell, one from a "royal family" and one a complete commoner.  Sam, the learned one, also from a "royal family" and the amazing Davos, the Onion Knight, completely honorable and well aware of many things that have happened, formerly very poor and a smuggler.

I agree that religion seems to be something that needs to be addressed in the remaining episodes. I'm starting to suspect that Bran's purpose is, at it's core, theological. We see all the characters of different religious backgrounds having redemptive or fulfillment arcs. Lord of Light followers like The Red Woman, or Beric. Theon was born in a society that worshipped The Drowned God, then raised in the religion of The North. Brienne is Knighted with the rhetoric of southern Westeros' religion. The Hound, in an interesting manner, made his near death comeback first with a group that worshipped as southern Westerosi (I've always thought the Ian McShane episode is very interesting), then of course he has most closely fought with devotees of the Lord of Light.

Then we have how the fundamental corruption (via love of power) of The High Sparrow shaped this story. It just makes me think that Bran, the repository of all knowledge of the history of Westeros, is to play a role in uniting all these different religious groups, and that is why the NK, who is Death personified, had, as his top priority, the destruction of the 3 Eyed Raven.

Then again, maybe I'm clueless. Just hoping for some good writing to end this story.

[Jextella]

Going against the grain, but the spoilers add up for me. 

Jaimie and Tyrion are family-first (now that the NK is dead anyway).  Likely neither wants Cersei ruling, but they don't want her dead either.  Especially not her unborn child.  Through Brienne, Jamie found humanity and is reminded of what it means to be a knight.  But his heart will always be with Cersei.  You can't help who you love.

Dany has lost a ton and she's not going to sit down and take it.  The Iron Throne is all she has left to live for and she'll fight for it. 

I think the Hound is spent and could care less about who rules what, etc. He has one thing to live for - and that's exacting revenge on his brother.  Even if it means his own death - and perhaps he's ready for that now.

Arya only has Jon and Sansa and she's not meant for a ruler's life.  She's been gone so long, too, that she doesn't have the same experiences or the deep loyalty Sansa does.  

Sansa rules the north on behalf of all that came before, especially Ned and her brothers, and maybe even Theon.

Bran is the logical choice to rule given his skill set.  

I guess the one thing that is unclear is why Jon would go back to the wall since the NK is dead.  Maybe "just in case" or maybe Bran foreshadows things to come.

The spoilers leave Grayworm, Tormund, Brienne/Podrick, and Theon's sister, Yara, unaccounted for.  I suppose Brienne sticks with her oath to protect the Stark girls and heads north.  Tormund likely follows.  Yara probably rules the Iron Islands. 

I hope the practice of making men eunichs is abandonded.  It'll mean Grayworm needs a job, though.  Perhaps he dies fighting Dany in retaliation for Missandei's death.

Edited May 1, 2019 by Jextella

[Minneapple]

Someone at Freefolk posted a roundup of all the "will Jon kill Dany" theories, leaks and interviews. Both pro and con.

People have posted additional links in the thread, so browse away.

[chrisvee]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

Ha! There's a great quote from Cougar Town "My only interests are drinking wine and judging people," and that's Tyrion in a nutshell. I dunno about the wine part, but Sansa would definitely be down with judging everyone. She does that already.

Sansa’s tutelage at the hands of LF has made her the intellectually perfect partner for Tyrion.  Her suffering at the hands of RB makes her appealing to him emotionally. He’s clearly carrying a torch for someone and I refuse to believe it’s Dany since we already been there/dine that with Jorah.

I think they are a legit endgame ship assuming they both survive (a big of). The conflict for Tyrion will come IMO not from Dany but from Jaime bc Tyrion will be loyal to him and the baby Cersei is (supposedly) carrying.

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, anamika said:

So for the next episode, we know that Jon/Davos/Dany etc. , Dany's boats and armies leave for Dragonstone. What if Sansa, Arya and Bran are left behind and then the GC attack WF?

I thought that, but Harry Strickland's filming time was in December (interior scenes with Cersei in the throne room, I think), May and June, which sounds like KL-only stuff. WIth that said, 8x04 did have a violence warning, so it's not going to be all toasts and speeches. Isaac also made it sound as if the last four episodes are a big rollercoaster ride, so any reflecting, ruminating and speechifying in 8x04 will be of short duration.

I find it hard to believe that D&D would pass up the opportunity for one last confrontation between Sansa and Cersei, but it really doesn't make any sense for Sansa to leave Winterfell. I think 8x05 is the KL equivalent of the 8x03 Winterfell battle--more or less nonstop action--so it seems possible that Sansa will skip 8x05 and appear again in the epilogue. I'm still waiting on that scale dress, which didn't appear in the 8x04 promo.

Quote

There's also Bronn. I don't know if he is going to wait till Jaime/Tyrion get to KL.

I have no idea what's going to happen with that plot, beyond knowing that Bronn and Cersei won't have any scenes together.

Edited May 1, 2019 by Eyes High