S04.E08: Sari, Not Sari...

[LIMOM]

  37 minutes ago, LIMOM said:

Meh, if her going thru the steps on my TV can help someone copes with his/her recovery, I am all for this process being on tv.

Why are the women so against her?

There is a hint of jealousy there, imo.

Her recent  Snapchat show was quite something, lol.

I hope she keeps safe...

Why are the women so against Kathryn?? Is this a joke question??

They know all about her poor character and volatile personality disorder-isn't that enough?? 

A bit of jealousy? Of what exactly? I was rewatching Season Two and Landon was very nice to Kathryn initially and very much on her side. Kathryn turned on her-like she always does. 

Why would Cameran ever be jealous of Kathryn? That is laughable! 

Kathryn is ONLY reaching out to Thomas, JD, Elizabeth, etc to remain on Southern Charm/TV! That is IT. I know her type. She is a master manipulator. Did you not see her ice cold treatment of Jennifer? Kathryn cares only about Kathryn. 

Nope. It was not a joke.
I firmly believe that they are all competing for airtime and other resources (in Landon's case) and are somehow threatened by Kathryn.
I actually feel sorry for Cameran and Landon, they need to grow up and become more compassionate with those who hurt.
As usual, JD and his wife gets it.

[MyAimIsTrue]

Cameran's voice seemed so screechy (if that's a word) at the dinner party that I couldn't wait for the next scene.  Her normal speaking voice doesn't bother me but apparently when there's a crowd and it gets noisy her voice is like fingernails on the chalkboard for me and I just can't handle it.

[lunastartron]

9 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

I agree with everything you say.  I don't feel sorry for Katherine.  I don't trust her.  Why is she reaching out to everyone and putting them on the spot?   The only people I feel sorry for are the two adorable kids and Thomas, who has to put up with her for the rest of his life.  She is a heartless wacko and will NEVER leave him alone.

Poor, deceived Thomas, the erudite, cosmopolitan 50-year-old who repeatedly and explicitly told a woman just barely old enough to drink (and in such personal disarray she literally couldn't make it home some nights) that he would take care of her if she produced children for him; waxed rhapsodic about the cache of her storied surname and appraised her like a breeding mare as a "fertile Myrtle"; and, even after getting a day-to-day glimpse of her mental health issues, went back for more and impregnated her again.

He really had the wool pulled over his eyes!

[LIMOM]

This show is giving me migraine. So sick and tired of women defending the disgusting behaviors of Thomas.

I get that he is an old southern boy misogynistic misanthrope but what are Landon and Cameran problem?

I expect better out of thirty years old women.

what a letdown.

as far as Jennifer, yes she has a sick child however it does not excuse her meddling behaviors.

yuck, this show sucks!

Edited May 23, 2017 by LIMOM

[Mindthinkr]

1 hour ago, LIMOM said:

Meh, if her going thru the steps on my TV can help someone copes with his/her recovery, I am all for this process being on tv.

Why are the women so against her?

There is a hint of jealousy there, imo.

Her recent  Snapchat show was quite something, lol.

I hope she keeps safe...

Audition tape for a Charleston tour guide? 

[Major Bigtime]

1 hour ago, LIMOM said:

Meh, if her going thru the steps on my TV can help someone copes with his/her recovery, I am all for this process being on tv.

Why are the women so against her?

There is a hint of jealousy there, imo.

Her recent  Snapchat show was quite something, lol.

 

She's not going through the 12 steps, that's obvious by her behavior. I've been where these folks are, I've had the classic addict manipulation done to me, as Kathryn is doing to them. Bravo disgusts me sometimes by letting her continue on this show, when it's only making her worse. As evidenced by recent behavior. The woman aren't against her, aren't jealous of her. They are sick and tired of always having to pick up the pieces after her tornado blasts through the group. 

[Mountainair]

I live about 20 minutes from Chimney Rock and I took the kids there last summer. The elevator was broken so we had to climb the 500 some odd steps up to the top (I strapped the 5 month old to my body and the older boys walked it). They have a nice lookout that is completely fenced/glassed in. I imagine after the accident involving Austen's sister they upped security a bit (I'm sure they continue to do so). We were actually picnicking at the bottom in the designated picinic area when out of no where the loudest most strangest sound occurred. Instinct told us to get up and run and sure enough, a big ass boulder came crashing down right by where we were eating! 

Living in the Blue Ridge Mountains we hike often and the thought of one of my children falling to their deaths crosses my mind so I tend to be hyper villagant about it. I could not ever imagine the pain and suffering Austen's family went through! 

[imjagain]

19 minutes ago, Major Bigtime said:

She's not going through the 12 steps, that's obvious by her behavior. I've been where these folks are, I've had the classic addict manipulation done to me, as Kathryn is doing to them. Bravo disgusts me sometimes by letting her continue on this show, when it's only making her worse. As evidenced by recent behavior. The woman aren't against her, aren't jealous of her.  They are sick and tired of always having to pick up the pieces after her tornado blasts through the group. 

They are absolutely not jealous imo. They are sick of her! And I freaking get it. If they were friends, then yes, I'm sure they would be have empathy for her.  Kathryn  has treated  Landon like shit because she thought Thomas and Landon were sleeping together, which was none of Kathryn's business. Cam has seen Kathryn's crazy behavior enough to know she wants no part of it. I think it's completely fair that they're not jumping in and being all friendly. They want to keep her arms length, good for them.  

Kathryn met up with Jennifer and still treated her like shit. Why? Because,  Kathryn can't get over Thomas handing Jennifer a handkerchief a year ago. Bitch is crazy! 

I don't really  care about Austin and Chelsea but they are a cute couple. Chelsea,  I don't think was ever really into Shep. She mentioned his reputation 3-4 times to cam. I think was a major problem for her but was going along with storyline. 

I don't think Landon  wants Austin, she's flirty,  big deal.  

[lunastartron]

35 minutes ago, Major Bigtime said:

She's not going through the 12 steps, that's obvious by her behavior. I've been where these folks are, I've had the classic addict manipulation done to me, as Kathryn is doing to them. Bravo disgusts me sometimes by letting her continue on this show, when it's only making her worse. As evidenced by recent behavior. The woman aren't against her, aren't jealous of her. They are sick and tired of always having to pick up the pieces after her tornado blasts through the group. 

Kathryn's behavior hasn't exactly devastated the lives of anyone in the cast so I'm unsure what "pieces" Cameran, Patricia, and/or Landon have ever had to "pick up." As far as the latter two are concerned, Kathryn hasn't interacted with either substantively in over two years. And Landon, despite her insipid insistence that she "has never said anything bad" about Kathryn (except, you know, when calling her a whore for trying to land a rich husband ... just like Landon; or free styling fan fiction about Kathryn fabricating medical scares for her children; or any of the numerous instances in which Landon has editorialized about Kathryn to Craig, Naomi, etc, and actively worked to exclude her from filmed events that others, like Shep with his birthday, have instructed her to invite Kathryn to), does the most she can to participate in and perpetuate a combative dynamic with her. 

Frankly, I'm uncertain as well just how any of Kathryn's volatility has had any more of an impact on this group than Thomas almost assaulting several of them and literally chasing the rest out of his home in a controlled substance-fueled rage last season. You know, that episode after which he was hailed as "a gentleman" by Landon and greeted with a collective shrug by the remainder of the coterie. 

Cameran is just a busybody bitch (see: her off-putting and weird preoccupation with Chelsea's romantic and sexual entanglements) doing a poor job of feigning hands-off maturity. If she wants "to stay out of it," she should take her own counsel and leave the show; problem solved, she's out of it! Likewise, if she has no investment in Kathryn, of what significance is it to her if Kathryn reestablishes communication with Whitney, Shep, and other cast members whose names aren't "Cameran"? It might be shocking to Mrs. Wimberley but all of these people had relationships with Kathryn independent of Cameran.

Edited May 23, 2017 by lunastartron

[SunnyBeBe]

Someone mentioned upthread that Kathryn was not in a twelve step program.....I'm not sure, but, one of the tenants of that program is making amends, as much as possible, with family and friends for prior wrongdoings.  Some write letters and try to do that.  Maybe, that's what Kathryn is doing.  Regardless, one can accept the letter, apology, etc. and then move on.  You can accept the apology AND STILL NOT INVITE THE PERSON BACK INTO YOUR LIFE TO SCREW YOU OVER AGAIN. I'm not sure why they don't seem to get that.  If Thomas had received some professional advice, he's know that the CYCLE of unhealthy relationships is just that.  There are phases.  He and Kathryn have been there before.  STOP the cycle. 

Apparently, many types of recovery programs stress the forgiveness process.

https://www.promises.com/articles/addiction-recovery/forgiveness-a-big-part-of-addiction-recovery/

I was amazed at the tears and emotion when Kathryn spoke of her love for Thomas and his desire to seek the approval of his father.  Well, I don't buy her act, but, I thought it was interesting what made her cry.  Seems that she is not astute enough to recognize that Thomas's failures with his dad are due to THOMAS'S own actions.  He's the one who chose to commit the acts that took him to prison. He's the one who ruined his own campaign by impregnating a young girl and becoming a joke on a reality show.  Thomas CHOSE all of this.  It's not that his dad is being PICKY and having unrealistic expectations.  Oh, Kathryn........she is still so deluded that she sees this as Thomas's DAD's fault.  Not poor little Thomas.  lol 

Why does Chelsea seem to want to needle Austen?  She just gives off this vibe that he is annoying to her.  Does anyone else get that.  I find that annoying. I think he may be too good for her.  Is she just pretending to be that way?  IT's not becoming, imo.  

I have visited Chimney Rock many times since childhood. I can't imagine such a horror.  It is a lovely place. So sad for that to have happened there.  

http://www.chimneyrockpark.com/

[imjagain]

@SunnyBeBe, now that  you mention it. It really does seem like Austin annoys Chelsea lol.  Now you got me thinking,  the vibe I do get is annoying little brother, and that is sort of eww if I think about it. I still think they make a beautiful couple, but yeah. She's not into him. She's probably more into Austin than slutty Shep. But still. 

Edited May 23, 2017 by imjagain

[bichonblitz]

We have seen Austen interact with both Chelsea and Landon. With both women, he seems like a nice guy to be around, rolls with the punches and has a great sense of humor. He has an easy, natural way to make women feel comfortable around him.  He also is good looking in a frat boy kind of way. His personality is way better than Shep's. Another reason for Shep to be jealous of him. Sheppie is positively seething every time he's around him. 

Can't wait to see what TRav's letter to Kathryn says. I think he is skeptical of her intentions. About time, TR.  I did think it was cute when TR was driving around Charleston pointing Kensie's legacy out to her. One of the few times he was tolerable.  

[robroy]

Have we actually seen Kathryn making amends? The meeting she had with Jennifer was the exact opposite of making amends. And the way she is basically taking Thomas' inventory and pushing his buttons/triggers is in no way indicative of a 12 step program. I've had someone close to me go though that and it is a messy process that involves a lot of work that you would not see on reality TV. At this stage she should be avoiding drama not locking towards like a moth to a flame. Being sober- or temporarily dried out- is not the same as working the steps. Long term folks in her situation have to work on root causes- the rest of us mostly really see drunk/drugged or not drunk/drugged as opposed to the actual work of how you treat yourself and interact with others. In her case the interactions are not where I think someone really tackling the issue should be.

My take on Cam's comment are is that they were only interacting on television not their real lives. Its obvious several others have carried over into her personal life. I also think Kathryn is much better at manipulating men than women. Women can spot a phony and men a douche more readily than their opposite sex counterparts in most cases.

[seasquared]

  12 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

And the Award for best Dressed tonight goes to .................. MIchael( the butler).

Speaking of dressed...didn't Whitney's date get the memo that it was Indian night? What was up with the black Opera gloves? 

I just realized that she ALWAYS has on opera gloves. Is it possible that she's really a he and she wears the gloves to mask her "man hands?"

[esco1822]

6 hours ago, LIMOM said:

Whatever happened to the scene where Landon told Chelsea to grow up?

This was in the "still to come this season" previews.  It wasn't solely for this particular episode so we still have something to look forward to, I guess. 

[Duke2801]

3 hours ago, LIMOM said:

Meh, if her going thru the steps on my TV can help someone copes with his/her recovery, I am all for this process being on tv.

Why are the women so against her?

There is a hint of jealousy there, imo.

Her recent  Snapchat show was quite something, lol.

I hope she keeps safe...

Yeah maybe "not drinking."  But possibly (likely?) smoking, snorting, huffing, swallowing. 

She's just....not right.

[Bronzedog]

So, Shep's attempt to save his liver is over and he's back to drinking all the time again?  I've always liked him but he's losing me this season.  #teamliver

[RedHawk]

Kathryn hasn't been right from the beginning, pushing herself onto the cameras, so fame hungry.

Edited May 23, 2017 by RedHawk

[SunnyBeBe]

38 minutes ago, imjagain said:

@SunnyBeBe, now that  you mention it. It really does seem like Austin annoys Chelsea lol.  Now you got me thinking,  the vibe I do get is annoying little brother, and that is sort of eww if I think about it. I still think they make a beautiful couple, but yeah. She's not into him. She's probably more into Austin than slutty Shep. But still. 

I didn't pick up on it, until they were in the car going to the hunting trip.  It seemed like she was trying to tell him what he needed to do go get her approval.  Nothing wrong with that, but, it seemed that she was trying too hard to sound all cool. THEN, the way she seemed to poke fun of his "puppy love" while lying in bed. Really? That's rude, imo.  Then, she's acting like his sweat is all icky.  Her body language indicates that she's not into being with him, imo.  Just poor vibes. HIs emotional story touched her, but, if that hadn't happened, I think she might have yawned and left the place.  

[LIMOM]

2 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

Audition tape for a Charleston tour guide? 

The barefoot Southern Charm tour guide featuring Kathlyn Calhoun Dennis.

 

8 minutes ago, Duke2801 said:

Yeah maybe "not drinking."  But possibly (likely?) smoking, snorting, huffing, swallowing. 

She's just....not right.

Yep, she is not well.

4 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I didn't pick up on it, until they were in the car going to the hunting trip.  It seemed like she was trying to tell him what he needed to do go get her approval.  Nothing wrong with that, but, it seemed that she was trying too hard to sound all cool. THEN, the way she seemed to poke fun of his "puppy love" while lying in bed. Really? That's rude, imo.  Then, she's acting like his sweat is all icky.  Her body language indicates that she's not into being with him, imo.  Just poor vibes. HIs emotional story touched her, but, if that hadn't happened, I think she might have yawned and left the place.  

No chemistry there at all!

who talks about sweaty short tryst?

[SunnyBeBe]

Oh, I love the adult way that Thomas talks with his daughter, but, I wish he would get a driver or keep his eyes on the road.  Gesssh......

[robroy]

4 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

Kathryn hasn't been right from the beginning, pushing herself onto the cameras, so fame hungry.

One of the character flaws/traits of an addict is often attention seeking. I don't say that with judgment- because we all have flaws. But there is definitely an element of that with Kathryn in seeking TV, how she acts on social media and her tendency to blow up a gathering/event. That same tendency is why also find Thomas suspect much of the time.

[slowpoked]

So Chelsea basically confirmed that she wasn't too impressed with Austen's bedroom skills. I guess he didn't heed Whitney's advice before they went to their separate cabin. LOL

14 hours ago, RedHawk said:

I thought it was sarcasm. She said it after Shep threw out his f-bomb. He didn't seem that drunk (which would also have been rude at an event hosted by women his grandmother's age) so despite his vocabulary, I guess he just lacks manners.

This. Money and name lineage (just like Kathryn) cannot buy decency. And it's not just manners - there's a nasty streak inside of that apparently "good heart" that hides behind the smile and chuckle. So it looks like he's just kidding around. But it does seem like he actually enjoys putting people down - Craig, Landon and then Austen. What is that jab about Austen being a "hippie loser"? What kind of a good friend would say "so, has she seen you for the loser that you really are?!" I love it when Austen said that they had a good talk the morning after - implying heavily to Shep's face that he closed the deal, and that Shep could not, therefore, Shep's the loser - and that Shep was just like "eh, whatever, lots of yachts in the ocean. Someone who mentioned he's becoming that rusty, dirty dinghy boat above is completely on the mark.

10 hours ago, LIMOM said:

Whatever happened to the scene where Landon told Chelsea to grow up?

Happened on Cam's birthday getaway to FL, so probably one of the last couple of episodes this season.

5 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Why does Chelsea seem to want to needle Austen?  She just gives off this vibe that he is annoying to her.  Does anyone else get that.  I find that annoying. I think he may be too good for her.  Is she just pretending to be that way?  IT's not becoming, imo. 

There is a preview for next episode on the Bravo website where Austen and Craig go golfing:

Spoiler

In one of his THs, Austen mentioned Chelsea already being engaged twice before (and obviously both failed), therefore the reason why she has put up so much walls and space between her and any potential romantic partner. So I guess her saying "weary of relationships" in the last episode is correct on her part and not a confusion between wary vs. weary.

I wonder if one of her engagements was to that pro baseball player. He played for the Angels, can't remember his name now. They dated for a few years.

Austen's story about his sister is definitely heartbreaking. I think he put it perfectly when he said at that age, he hasn't understood the concept of death yet and thereby was just waiting for his sister to come back from the hospital after being treated for scrapes and bruises. And later on, he slowly learned that that wasn't the case. Innocent mind suddenly traumatized about the hard facts of life.

Edited May 23, 2017 by slowpoked

[SunnyBeBe]

I'm no mental health professional, but, there are a couple of personality disorders that really mesh with Kathryn's behavior.  I wonder if she's been told that before.  

 

Here are some things they look at:

Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment

A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationshipscharacterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation

Identity disturbance, such as a significant and persistent unstable self-image or sense of self

Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating)

Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior

Emotional instability due to significant reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days)

Chronic feelings of emptiness

Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights)

Transient, stress-related paranoid thoughts or severe dissociative symptoms

Based on what Kathryn has said HERSELF about HERSELF, it looks like she has most, if not all of these.  It's concerning.  I'd be very cautious with the kids.  People with this kind of thing, don't necessarily have to be substance abusers, based on what I have read. 

Edited May 23, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[LIMOM]

37 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I'm no mental health professional, but, there are a couple of personality disorders that really mesh with Kathryn's behavior.  I wonder if she's been told that before.  

 

Here are some things they look at:

Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment

A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationshipscharacterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation

Identity disturbance, such as a significant and persistent unstable self-image or sense of self

Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating)

Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior

Emotional instability due to significant reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days)

Chronic feelings of emptiness

Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights)

Transient, stress-related paranoid thoughts or severe dissociative symptoms

Based on what Kathryn has said HERSELF about HERSELF, it looks like she has most, if not all of these.  It's concerning.  I'd be very cautious with the kids.  People with this kind of thing, don't necessarily have to be substance abusers, based on what I have read. 

So what is the diagnostic Dr Sunnybebe?

[SunnyBeBe]

23 minutes ago, LIMOM said:

So what is the diagnostic Dr Sunnybebe?

LOL I'm no professional.  Not diagnosing. Just observing and asking questions.  

[Sun-Bun]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I didn't pick up on it, until they were in the car going to the hunting trip.  It seemed like she was trying to tell him what he needed to do go get her approval.  Nothing wrong with that, but, it seemed that she was trying too hard to sound all cool. THEN, the way she seemed to poke fun of his "puppy love" while lying in bed. Really? That's rude, imo.  Then, she's acting like his sweat is all icky.  Her body language indicates that she's not into being with him, imo.  Just poor vibes. HIs emotional story touched her, but, if that hadn't happened, I think she might have yawned and left the place.  

I think Austen's strictly in Chelsea's Friendzone despite their forced Showmance---there's just no real chemistry there, despite their occasional flirtations and implied sexual tension. If she did indeed sleep with the dude, it was probably just nothing more than a random romp/s a'la Shep and his overnight conquests. Nothing wrong with a gal simply enjoying a convenient fuck buddy without a real relationship being pushed, so I wish the show would just focus on that realistic aspect and be done with any pretense of promoting another potential couple. Women can happily sleep around and enjoy multiple conquests without "monogamy monotony" too, after all!

[slowpoked]

14 hours ago, Major Bigtime said:

Here is an old news article about her death.

http://www.greensboro.com/year-old-falls-from-cliff-area-slippery-from-rain/article_a5bf26f8-7a2e-542c-badb-5ef748b61e7a.html

Here is another article that adds some more details:

http://www.goupstate.com/news/19940820/9-year-old-dies-in-fall-at-chimney-rock

Apparently, Austen's family just moved to Charlotte just four days before the accident.

Lots of what-ifs. Heartbreaking...

[Luckylondon]

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

LOL I'm no professional.  Not diagnosing. Just observing and asking questions.  

Well, I am and Kathryn absolutely meets those criteria and presents as personality disordered. She is not my patient, however, we all have observed a lot and everything about Kathryn screams borderline personality disorder to me. Of particular note, how disorganized she makes others. Just bringing up her turned that party of adults in to yelling at each other (none of whom were Thomas) and told to go home. And she wasn't even there. I have seen this happen to treatment teams many times. Kathryn's personality structure is very broken, and dysfunctional in accomplishing any effective social, relationship, occupational functioning. To me, the substance use is a symptom and needs treatment as she will never get better without it, but the personality disorder is the larger issue and they complicate each other. 

Edited May 23, 2017 by Luckylondon
Spelling

[LIMOM]

So borderline personality disorder is the new bipolar?

Amazing how every so often an ailment becomes the disorder du jour.

[Emmeline]

12 hours ago, RedHawk said:

 

12 hours ago, RedHawk said:

I hope Kathryn will NOT focus on Kensie having some modeling career. I would applaud Thomas if he said "no" to that. IMO getting children into modeling is not good for their self-esteem in the long run. Plus, we know Kathryn would only be doing it to try to create some career for herself as well. What a stage mother she would be!

I completely agree with you on this.  I can't imagine why Thomas would ever allow his children to model.  How in the world would that benefit them?  As far as Katherine's modeling potential goes, it's not going to happen.  Who would want her name attached to their brand.

Still, Katherine need to have some kind of focus in life and it is clearly not now or ever been her children.  I have gone through five shoulder surgeries in six months and have been on medical leave.  I never thought I would say this but, all this time doing nothing is not good for anyone.  I actually want to go back to work.  I've looked at her instagram and she appears to be leading a very lonely life.

The kids will be fine.  There are plenty of single parent homes getting by paycheck to paycheck turning out wonderful, productive, loving individuals.

[lunastartron]

20 minutes ago, Luckylondon said:

Well, I am officially Dr. Lucky London and Kathryn absolutely meets those criteria and presents as personality disordered. She is not my patient, however, we all have observed a lot and everything about Kathryn screams borderline personality disorder to me. Of particular note, how disorganized she makes others. Just bringing up her turned that party of adults in to yelling at each other (none of whom were Thomas) and told to go home. And she wasn't even there. I have seen this happen to treatment teams many times. Kathryn's personality structure is very broken, and dysfunctional in accomplishing any effective social, relationship, occupational functioning. To me, the substance use is a symptom and needs treatment as she will never get better without it, but the personality disorder is the larger issue and they complicate each other. 

So Kathryn is not only responsible for her own conduct and bad behavior but that of others (specifically, those more than a decade older than she) as well? (I thought Cameran didn't even know her)

Wow. As an earnest and straight-faced contention, this is really kind of scary. 

[iloveit]

I think Kathryn wants to do modeling because she has no other viable skills to get a job. 

It is fine if Cameran doesn't believe that Kathryn's intentions are good and if she doesn't want turmoil. But, if she doesn't want to get involved, then she shouldn't get involved by telling people who should and shouldn't be talking to Kathryn. Everyone can decide on their own. 

Craog was generally awful this episode but I agreed with him when he told Landon she never takes the high road. That is true.

if I were Naomie, I'd probably dump Craig. I liked Craig up until the past couple episodes. Hopefully, his douchy-ness was attributable to studying for the bar, finishing school, and filming and he is treating her better now.

Austen seems like a nice person who is on a different show altogether. 

Edited May 23, 2017 by iloveit

[Luckylondon]

1 hour ago, lunastartron said:

So Kathryn is not only responsible for her own conduct and bad behavior but that of others (specifically, those more than a decade older than she) as well? (I thought Cameran didn't even know her)

Wow. As an earnest and straight-faced contention, this is really kind of scary. 

No. However, the behavior of someone with this personality, this often is the result. Typically, people become disorganized, frustrated, and annoyed with others who don't agree on how to respond to the personality disordered persons behaviors-- especially if they don't understand this is a personality disorder. That disorganization that can disrupt a room of people or a treatment team meeting of doctors on how to best handle or respond to their behaviors because many  get very triggered by what they feel is manipulative, horrible avoidable behavior that should not be rewarded with attention and others who see the self destructive-Ness as a reaction to wounds and pain that their fragile sense of self cannot sustain and that it is a symptom created by the internal emotional storm that drives the behavior and that needs to have a very specific standardized response. That disorganization felt inside the person, yes, it can affect how others feel about the person, and they feel disorganized and frustrated and upset and don't like it. They either want to help or run away, which is exactly how Kathryn presents when distressed. The "I hate you! Wait don't leave me!" dichotomy.  So no, Katheryn is not an all powerful guru; however, anyone deeply involved with a person with this disorder may have witnessed how just discussing them and how to respond to them can whip a family system or a group (like this dysfunctional group) in to hysterics very quickly and like no other. Because the behavior is baffling and frustrating, manipulative and terribly self-destructive, and completely exhausting; yet it is often coming from a place of complete internal disorganization. So for those who are unaware of how to deal with this disorder, some will have empathy for the pain that they see and others feel that the person is very aware of their behavior and it is manipulative and intentional and this can cause disagreement at in how to deal with the person, just as it did last night.

Your personality does affect how others feel around you, and my point is that how disorganized and crazy they get in a hot second just discussing Kathryn's behavior is likely the disorganization she feels internally most of the time. Which is why they can look to destructive behaviors to escape the internal discomfort. 

To me, Kathryn's behavior is manipulative, she is erratic, impulsively emotional, especially at ANY perceived slight or wound to her. However, I don't think she is in control of her behavior and can just stop it or she would. No one wants to feel or act like that, especially on TV. It is her PERSONALITY. That is why these disorders are extremely difficult to treat because your personality is how you interface with the world and the filter through which you make all of your perceptions and arrive at conclusions and the way you know to interact with others. If you are told to just change your personality, you can't. There are some successful treatments for borderline personality disorder-- because there are many who desperately want to stop acting destructively when they feel that pain-- and it sounds like Kathryn was exposed to some of it from the language I noticed her using when she came back from treatment. 

I don't want to derail this. I am not her doctor. I was agreeing with Sun Bun's observation. I have worked inpatient with long term patients, including some severe borderline personality disorder, and in my opinion only, that is what Kathryn is dealing with in addition to heavy substance abuse. Yes, others have mentioned that it looks like any of the Cluster B personality disorders, histrionic, narcissistic, anti-social, yet in my opinion, it is very much borderline personality behavior. I hope that she continues with the "mindfulness" approaches she mentioned at yoga as coping mechanisms as these will help keep her feeling grounded and feel she can handle things when the emotional storm hits. 

Edited May 23, 2017 by Luckylondon
Spelling, paragraphs

[RedHawk]

1 hour ago, Sun-Bun said:

Women can happily sleep around and enjoy multiple conquests without "monogamy monotony" too, after all!

Sure, they can, but like Shep sending off his "night-before", Chelsea's "oh, you got puppy love?" treatment of Austen didn't make her look like a nice person. Austen did many things to treat Chelsea well and show his interest, then she hits him with a morning-after "hey, I don't want this to actually mean something". To me, that's not scoring one for equality, it's being shitty to a guy you just had sex with for the first time after he's shown a great deal of interest in you aside from sex. If she wants to sleep around and enjoy multiple conquests, then she should have let him know up front that she was only making him jump through dating/building relationship hoops for the cameras. I now don't like Chelsea for many of the same reasons I don't like Shep. It appears that they both use and discard others sexually. Is that why Cameran thought they'd be a good match? Heh. 

Edited May 23, 2017 by RedHawk

[Vivigirl10]

Quote

Have we actually seen Kathryn making amends? The meeting she had with Jennifer was the exact opposite of making amends

THANK YOU!  If that meeting with Jennifer was an example of how she asks for forgiveness, I'd continue to stay far, far away.  

I can't quite put my finger on what it is about Chelsea that bugs.  She seems a bit rough around the edges.  But I'm wondering if she's the type of gal who shoves down a guy's throat how cool, laid-back and not into commitment she is, and then becomes the worst type of stalker/stage five clinger.

I'm starting to think Patricia can't move.  She can only sink back into a couch, propped up by pillows and sip a drink.  It's weird because her face looks young (good doctoring) but her movements (or non-movements) are that of a 100 year old.   

[HunterHunted]

4 minutes ago, Kiki620 said:

I'm starting to think Patricia can't move.  She can only sink back into a couch, propped up by pillows and sip a drink.  It's weird because her face looks young (good doctoring) but her movements (or non-movements) are that of a 100 year old.   

So you're saying that Patricia is Hedonism Bot from Futurama.

[bichonblitz]

Just now, Kiki620 said:

I'm starting to think Patricia can't move.  She can only sink back into a couch, propped up by pillows and sip a drink.  It's weird because her face looks young (good doctoring) but her movements (or non-movements) are that of a 100 year old.   

I was thinking the same thing! She's always sitting. she doesn't even get up to greet her guests. Then I remembered she did actually get out of the house to go to Jennifers Sip and See or am I imagining that? Or maybe it was TRav's polo party that Landon hosted for him. One of those. 

[RedHawk]

2 minutes ago, Kiki620 said:

I'm starting to think Patricia can't move.  She can only sink back into a couch, propped up by pillows and sip a drink.  It's weird because her face looks young (good doctoring) but her movements (or non-movements) are that of a 100 year old.   

Pat is 79, and I think in her thread sometime back there was mention of ongoing hip problems. 

[slowpoked]

1 hour ago, RedHawk said:

Sure, they can, but like Shep sending off his "night-before", Chelsea's "oh, you got puppy love?" treatment of Austen didn't make her look like a nice person. Austen did many things to treat Chelsea well and show his interest, then she hits him with a morning-after "hey, I don't want this to actually mean something". To me, that's not scoring one for equality, it's being shitty to a guy you just had sex with for the first time after he's shown a great deal of interest in you aside from sex. If she wants to sleep around and enjoy multiple conquests, then she should have let him know up front that she was only making him jump through dating/building relationship hoops for the cameras. I now don't like Chelsea for many of the same reasons I don't like Shep. It appears that they both use and discard others sexually. Is that why Cameran thought they'd be a good match? Heh. 

But wasn't it during their initial meeting where Austen said that he just broke up with a long-term girlfriend and therefore is not looking for any serious relationship as well? I think Chelsea took that as a sign that Austen is just also casually looking for someone to hang around with to have fun, not be serious about anything. She probably just preferred Austen because he treated her better and talks to her better than Shep. Plus I still stick to my theory that Chelsea knows something about Shep that she talked to with Cameran (STD perhaps) and that's why he hasn't been able to close the deal with her nor does she want to.

And let's not forget that Austen's introduction to the show is him telling his one-night stand that her walk of shame isn't too far from where he lives. And that he essentially broke up with his long-term girlfriend because he has an opportunity to be on a show that will get him laid all over the country. He's on Bumble, so it's not like he's waiting nobly for when Chelsea wants to get serious with him. He's still the frat boy type kind of guy, he just knows how to talk to women a little bit better than Shep, who literally pounces on the prey like they're just meat. And the good boy persona may just be for show too, just like Chelsea being laidback about sex.

Edited May 23, 2017 by slowpoked

[sadie]

I officially cannot stand Craig at all. 

What is wrong with these idiots that they can't behave at a dinner party nor refrain from using the f word? I've met felon paroles with better manners.

Kathryn, mental illness/no mental illness? Don't care. She's just not a nice person and I don't blame anyone that doesn't want to be in her presence. 

The scene with Thomas and his father was the most uncomfortable thing I've witnessed in a while. Sad. 

[olivia1]

Quote

I'm starting to think Patricia can't move.  She can only sink back into a couch, propped up by pillows and sip a drink.  It's weird because her face looks young (good doctoring) but her movements (or non-movements) are that of a 100 year old.   

I thought this too. She can't even pick up Chauncey.  Her body seems much older than her face.  

[corter20]

3 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I'm no mental health professional, but, there are a couple of personality disorders that really mesh with Kathryn's behavior.  I wonder if she's been told that before.  

 

Here are some things they look at:

Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment

A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationshipscharacterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation

Identity disturbance, such as a significant and persistent unstable self-image or sense of self

Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating)

Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior

Emotional instability due to significant reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days)

Chronic feelings of emptiness

Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights)

Transient, stress-related paranoid thoughts or severe dissociative symptoms

Based on what Kathryn has said HERSELF about HERSELF, it looks like she has most, if not all of these.  It's concerning.  I'd be very cautious with the kids.  People with this kind of thing, don't necessarily have to be substance abusers, based on what I have read. 

This is actually very true, and to and on to your last sentence, people with personality disorders are often very sober when they display these characteristics, which often come off as drug induced. I 100% believe that Kathryn has a personality disorder (and a severe one at that). I feel for her because I feel like she is being let down by the people around her. When you have such an intense personality disorder, you do not recognize it. It is basically left up to the people around them to say something is wrong and seek help for that person. It is not like drug or alcohol addiction (which intensifies personality disorders) where he person has to see they are doing wrong and seek help. She needs help and the people around her are failing her. Her parents and Bravo may have set up that drug rehabilitation center in California, but those rehabs are known to be fraudulent and do not help. Helping the drug addiction is not going to help the underlining mental issue. 

Thomas is a smart man. He has been around the block a few times. He got exactly what he wanted and he is playing a game with Kathryn that very well might end her life one day. He got the children he wanted while pushing the mother out so he could continue to live like a bachelor while the nannies raise the babies and he has his heirs. He lied to Kathryn about taking care of her because he knew that she would hang on to his every word because she was a gold digger (and he knew it). He continued to string her along until he got what he wanted, and then when the time was right, he dropped her knowing she would ruin herself. I have no doubt in my mind that money was pushed under the table and with Kathryn's record, (and might I say that women have done far worse and kept their kids) he got the kids. Kathryn totally thought she was using him to get the marriage, but at the same time, he was using her to get everything he wanted. 

People with personality disorders tend to be very manipulative. Kathryn got played at her own game and you can tell she isn't dealing well with it. She needs an insane (no pun intended) amount of help and these idiots don't see it. 

[Misslindsey]

I missed a bit during the Cam, Shep and Craig disagreement about Kathryn, which I do not care much about, if people want to hear Kathryn out they can do so and those who would rather not do not have to. Anyway, Landon seemed to be telling Craig that he needed to apologize to her. I was wondering what the hell for? Was it about Landon thinking that she has not said anything bad about Kathryn? I mean Kathryn (for the record I cannot stand her or Thomas) is no saint, but neither was Landon during all that drama. Like I said I missed the beginning of that disagreement, so I am probably wrong. I could do without Kathryn, Thomas, and Landon in this show.

[sadie]

11 minutes ago, corter20 said:

Thomas is a smart man. He has been around the block a few times. He got exactly what he wanted and he is playing a game with Kathryn that very well might end her life one day. He got the children he wanted while pushing the mother out so he could continue to live like a bachelor while the nannies raise the babies and he has his heirs. He lied to Kathryn about taking care of her because he knew that she would hang on to his every word because she was a gold digger (and he knew it). He continued to string her along until he got what he wanted, and then when the time was right, he dropped her knowing she would ruin herself. I have no doubt in my mind that money was pushed under the table and with Kathryn's record, (and might I say that women have done far worse and kept their kids) he got the kids. Kathryn totally thought she was using him to get the marriage, but at the same time, he was using her to get everything he wanted. 

Wow! A dark scenario I had not considered. It's a good theory. Kathryn had the "physicality" he wanted, tall,  attractive, white, some prestigious leniage but the added bonus would be knowing she was unstable she would be easily swept aside. I hope that's not the case as he is playing with fire with her life. I have long thought this problem falls equally on them both. She is manipulative but he should have known better but under your theory he DID know better and did it tactically. Hmmmmmm.....

[cameron]

It will be interesting how the whole T Ran scenario plays out as he has just put his newest Charleston home on the market.

Edited May 23, 2017 by cameron
should read T Rav

[slowpoked]

10 hours ago, LIMOM said:

Meh, if her going thru the steps on my TV can help someone copes with his/her recovery, I am all for this process being on tv.

Why are the women so against her?

There is a hint of jealousy there, imo.

Her recent  Snapchat show was quite something, lol.

I hope she keeps safe...

 

Why? Why would you put that on out there to live forever in social media infamy when you are publicly fighting to get some kind of custody on your kids? WHY????

2 hours ago, Misslindsey said:

I missed a bit during the Cam, Shep and Craig disagreement about Kathryn, which I do not care much about, if people want to hear Kathryn out they can do so and those who would rather not do not have to. Anyway, Landon seemed to be telling Craig that he needed to apologize to her. I was wondering what the hell for? Was it about Landon thinking that she has not said anything bad about Kathryn? I mean Kathryn (for the record I cannot stand her or Thomas) is no saint, but neither was Landon during all that drama. Like I said I missed the beginning of that disagreement, so I am probably wrong. I could do without Kathryn, Thomas, and Landon in this show.

Craig told her that she never took the high road regarding Kathryn. So Landon asked Craig to apologize to her because according to Landon that's not true at all.

Landon and Kathryn are still going at it today on Twitter. Bring out the popcorn. Should be an interesting reunion:

Edited May 23, 2017 by slowpoked

[Nancypants]

I have always thought the exact same thing. I believe Thomas is The Big Bad Wolf.

Also shut UP Landon. What is the Point of You?

[zoeysmom]

1 hour ago, corter20 said:

 

Thomas is a smart man. He has been around the block a few times. He got exactly what he wanted and he is playing a game with Kathryn that very well might end her life one day. He got the children he wanted while pushing the mother out so he could continue to live like a bachelor while the nannies raise the babies and he has his heirs. He lied to Kathryn about taking care of her because he knew that she would hang on to his every word because she was a gold digger (and he knew it). He continued to string her along until he got what he wanted, and then when the time was right, he dropped her knowing she would ruin herself. I have no doubt in my mind that money was pushed under the table and with Kathryn's record, (and might I say that women have done far worse and kept their kids) he got the kids. Kathryn totally thought she was using him to get the marriage, but at the same time, he was using her to get everything he wanted. 

People with personality disorders tend to be very manipulative. Kathryn got played at her own game and you can tell she isn't dealing well with it. She needs an insane (no pun intended) amount of help and these idiots don't see it. 

Kathryn made her choices they are not Thomas' responsibility.  My guess is if Kathryn were given a million dollars she would go away and not look back at her children until the money ran out. Kathryn's personality, disorders and all are hers to own.  There isn't a competent court in the world that would hold Thomas or anyone else responsible for Kathryn's choices.  Kathryn was the one failing drug tests or refusing to take them and had she not been so greedy and pushed things into court, she would probably be enjoying some sort of relationship with her children. She is a petty, mean, vindictive individual who did not hesitate to use her children for financial gain.    

I don't buy that Thomas wanted to have children and have a nanny raise the children.  I would concede that Thomas probably thought between Kathryn's six figure salary and some child support he could enjoy co-parenting after it became obvious that he and Kathryn could not live under the same roof. Kathryn held the children for ransom, it would be irresponsible as a parent to continue to partially fund her drug fueled lifestyle.  There is just too much testimony and evidence that indicates Kathryn is not terribly interested in her children and has serious substance abuse and mental health issues. 

Having said all that, I do think Thomas should have shut Cameran down and stood by his friends.  It really isn't up to Thomas to run interference with the others when it comes to Kathryn.  Whatever issues Thomas and Kathryn have should not dictate who talks to Kathryn or Thomas for that matter.  Whitney, Craig, Shep, JD, Elizabeth are all allowed to have interaction with Kathryn and it is not  Cameran or Landon's business.   

[Natalie68]

6 hours ago, seasquared said:

I just realized that she ALWAYS has on opera gloves. Is it possible that she's really a he and she wears the gloves to mask her "man hands?"

Track marks?

I think I have said a kind thing or two about Craig but this episode was it for me.  I HATE the way he speaks to people when he gets angry.  He gets mean and condescending and I think he is a huge douchebag.  Even though he may have some handy skills around the house, his attitude makes it not worth it.    When they kept flashing to him calling Naomi 'child' it made me seethe.  That would be the LAST thing he ever said to me if he were my boyfriend.  One of us would be packed and out of the house by morning.  

As mentioned earlier, I am glad that even with Georgette in attendance there was no political talk.  Who by the way has really fucked up her face with a visit or two too many with her plastic surgeon.