S03.E07: Expenses

[Ohwell]

4 minutes ago, Jextella said:

I'm trying to remember - and can't seem to.  What kind of relationship did Mike have with Stacey in BB?  I seem to recall that not much was shown beyond him watching Kayley at the park and Stacey giving Mike a stern look from her doorway.  Something like that.  They weren't portrayed as being close the way they are in BCS.

I don't remember seeing her more than a couple times in BB, but even then she just looked sneaky to me.  Wasn't there a scene or two where he was giving her money, or perhaps I'm thinking about early BCS?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong,  but I think in BB all we knew about her was that she was Mike's DIL, but that was about it.  For example, we didn't know the circumstances of her husband's death.

[Tatum]

I don't even remember seeing Stacey at all in BB. All I remember is Mike watching Kaylee in the park. But there's a lot I've forgotten about BB.

 

She sure gave Mike quite the bitchface during an early episode of BCS though. I remember that.

 

ETA: According to BB wiki, Stacey only appeared once during BB, and she was played by an uncredited actress, not the one who plays her now. Can't speak to the veracity of that though. BB Wiki has her listed as appearing in episode 4.13. Actually, looking again, although the check mark is for 4.13, the paragraph lists her as waving from the door during an episode of season 3. I think I was actually under the impression that Stacey was Mike's estranged daughter during her first BCS appearance, when Mike was parked outside her house, and she drove by and gave him a glare.

Edited May 25, 2017 by Tatum

[Bryce Lynch]

48 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

I don't remember seeing her more than a couple times in BB, but even then she just looked sneaky to me.  Wasn't there a scene or two where he was giving her money, or perhaps I'm thinking about early BCS?

Someone correct me if I'm wrong,  but I think in BB all we knew about her was that she was Mike's DIL, but that was about it.  For example, we didn't know the circumstances of her husband's death.

All I ever recall from BB was Stacey waving to Mike when he dropped off Kaylee.  Maybe the fact that Mike stayed by the car, while Stacey stayed by the house gave the impression that something wasn't quite right between Mike and Stacey.  

I also recall Mike telling Kaylee not to tell her Mom that he bought her ice cream.  

Edited May 25, 2017 by Bryce Lynch

[Ohwell]

4 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

All I ever recall from BB was Stacey waving to Mike when he dropped off Kaylee.  Maybe the fact that Mike stayed by the car, while Stacey stayed by the house gave the impression that something wasn't quite right between Mike and Stacey.  

Ok, thanks.  One thing I do remember from BB is that Mike was concerned about leaving the stash of cash for Kaylee, not Stacey, correct?

[Tatum]

Just now, Ohwell said:

Ok, thanks.  One thing I do remember from BB is that Mike was concerned about leaving the stash of cash for Kaylee, not Stacey, correct?

That is correct. I don't think we even knew Stacey's name in BB. It was always just for Kaylee.

[Ohwell]

12 minutes ago, Tatum said:

That is correct. I don't think we even knew Stacey's name in BB. It was always just for Kaylee.

Which I thought was strange, because it seemed to me that he didn't trust Stacey with the money, or maybe he felt he had given her enough, and he wanted to make sure that it only went to Kaylee.  I just got the impression that Mike was tired of Stacey and, if not for Kaylee, he wouldn't have had much, if any, interaction with Stacey.

 

31 minutes ago, Tatum said:

She sure gave Mike quite the bitchface during an early episode of BCS though. I remember that.

I remember that, too.

[Tatum]

As much as I find Stacey annoying, I don't know how much we're supposed to read into it that Mike only wanted the money to go to Kaylee.

It kind of seemed like we were going down that road last season with the house and gunshot thing, but then the storyline was kind of dropped and now all Stacey ever does is simper about how great Mike is and how much his son loved him. Maybe the only intention is to show that Stacey is just trying to be nice and helpful, but in light of her earlier coldness, just rings insincere to me.

[rue721]

2 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Oh, I agree, but he should have swallowed his pride and asked Kim if she could carry the load for a month or two. I believe this was just the sort of thing they had in mind when they opened the shared office, if one was in a dry spell, the other could help him/her through it.  He reminds me of Walt turning down help from Grethen and Elliot and lying to Skyler about it. 

I think Jimmy thinks that when the money is gone, Kim will leave, too -- both the office and the relationship. I think that's why he's so desperate in trying to deny that his money is running out.

I don't think it's because he has a low opinion of her or thinks she's venal or anything -- I think he's just assuming he got really lucky by convincing her to join up with him (both at the office and in the relationship) and thinks he's going to blow it by not being able to hold up his end of the bargain.

I don't think he trusts her (her feelings for him) enough to ask her to carry him financially.

To be honest, its kind of crazy how broke he is considering how hard he's been working (and for 10+ years, including the mail room). I kind of wonder if he was coming into this series with such stress over making ends meet because Chuck had been draining him ("letting him" pay the mortgage on Chuck's house and stuff). Man, I think Chuck really took advantage of him.

[PeterPirate]

I don't know of any real evidence that points to improper motives on Stacey's part. Mike had to push her very hard to get her to talk about the gunshot sounds she thought she heard. She doesn't live the wild life and gives everything she has to her daughter. 

The only thing I know about Stacey in BB is that Mike didn't want her to know he bought ice cream for Kaylee. 

It also makes sense for Mike to try to get the money to his granddaughter since putting the money in Stacey's name would implicate her in a criminal conspiracy. 

Edited May 25, 2017 by PeterPirate

[Dobian]

On ‎5‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 8:46 PM, GussieK said:

James Garner and Mariette Hartley paired in a famous series of commrcials for Polaroid cameras in the 70s. I'm dating myself. 

Honk if you remember Polaroid cameras. 

They are actually making a comeback.  People buy them on eBay and at least one company produces film for them, though it is *very* expensive.

I thought this was kind of a dull, move-the-plot-forward episode, but the great thing about BCS is even the sedate episodes are more interesting to watch than many shows' good episodes.  I love Jimmy's film crew, and the bar scene with Jimmy and Kim, Mike and Nacho, and Jimmy screwing Chuck at the insurance office were great.

[ItsHelloPattiagain]

Quote

Maybe, as well as weapons, the Navy is involved in planes, too? I don't know much about it personally, but I remember hearing somewhere that there are a lot of pilots in the Navy, and it has a really strong air fleet.

The Navy has a lot of pilots - both airplane and helicopter pilots - and there are several Naval air stations in the desert. My father worked in security at Lake Mead Naval Air Station about 30 min from Las Vegas in the middle of the desert back in the day (he was a civil servant but used to be CIC in the Army when he was in the military). There used to be underground testing and other "secret" testing out there years ago. 

And before my dad worked at Lake Mead NAS, he worked at Sandia Air Force Base in Albuquerque. There were actually two air force bases there (Sandia and Kirkland). I was born at Sandia AFB hospital in Albuquerque. So there is way more military presence out there in the middle of nowhere than one might think. My ex BIL was born at Kirkland. Ex FIL was stationed as a pilot at White Sands. 

Edited May 25, 2017 by ItsHelloPattiagain

[Gobi]

38 minutes ago, ItsHelloPattiagain said:

The Navy has a lot of pilots - both airplane and helicopter pilots - and there are several Naval air stations in the desert. My father worked in security at Lake Mead Naval Air Station about 30 min from Las Vegas in the middle of the desert back in the day (he was a civil servant but used to be CIC in the Army when he was in the military). There used to be underground testing and other "secret" testing out there years ago. 

And before my dad worked at Lake Mead NAS, he worked at Sandia Air Force Base in Albuquerque. There were actually two air force bases there (Sandia and Kirkland). I was born at Sandia AFB hospital in Albuquerque. So there is way more military presence out there in the middle of nowhere than one might think. My ex BIL was born at Kirkland. Ex FIL was stationed as a pilot at White Sands. 

The deserts in the US are very popular for flight training, due to the all year round flying conditions. Several NATO countries send their pilots there for training.

[shapeshifter]

10 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

All I ever recall from BB was Stacey waving to Mike when he dropped off Kaylee.  Maybe the fact that Mike stayed by the car, while Stacey stayed by the house gave the impression that something wasn't quite right between Mike and Stacey.  

I also recall Mike telling Kaylee not to tell her Mom that he bought her ice cream.  

That rings true with my memory too. 
I'm guessing Stacey knows Mike has a stash of cash but not where it is, and she's hoping he'll soon depart this world, and the money will be hers. I don't think she plans to hurry along his demise, just that she thinks he's old. In the mean time, she's keeping up the relationship. 
Given their chilly relationship in the rapidly approaching BrBa world, I'm guessing Mike soon discovers that Stacey has no respect for him and/or just can't stand him, and maybe she's even a negligent mother.
But I'm just riffing here, so Stacey might be a terrific mom and DIL, and, if so, I apologize for character assassination.

[Tatum]

9 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

That rings true with my memory too. 
I'm guessing Stacey knows Mike has a stash of cash but not where it is, and she's hoping he'll soon depart this world, and the money will be hers. I don't think she plans to hurry along his demise, just that she thinks he's old. In the mean time, she's keeping up the relationship. 
Given their chilly relationship in the rapidly approaching BrBa world, I'm guessing Mike soon discovers that Stacey has no respect for him and/or just can't stand him, and maybe she's even a negligent mother.
But I'm just riffing here, so Stacey might be a terrific mom and DIL, and, if so, I apologize for character assassination.

I soured on Stacey last season when she took Mike's money. I know, he offered, and maybe she legitimately believed her neighborhood was unsafe for Kaylee. But it just seems like once the offer was on the table, she went whole hog on a house she could never afford on her own, thus making an elderly man on a fixed income forever financially responsible for her.

Now, I totally concede there are a dozen explanations that don't make Stacey look bad- perhaps Mike merely made the down payment, and she covers all monthly expenses herself. Maybe she even has plans to pay him back. Maybe she is paying him back each month. But it just seems-to me- like from what little we've seen of her, she's an opportunist out to see what she can get.

[Bryce Lynch]

10 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

That rings true with my memory too. 
I'm guessing Stacey knows Mike has a stash of cash but not where it is, and she's hoping he'll soon depart this world, and the money will be hers. I don't think she plans to hurry along his demise, just that she thinks he's old. In the mean time, she's keeping up the relationship. 
Given their chilly relationship in the rapidly approaching BrBa world, I'm guessing Mike soon discovers that Stacey has no respect for him and/or just can't stand him, and maybe she's even a negligent mother.
But I'm just riffing here, so Stacey might be a terrific mom and DIL, and, if so, I apologize for character assassination.

I'm really not sure if any of that is true.  The scenes in BB could mean nothing.  It is really not uncommon for a child to be dropped off at the curb, when nothing is wrong, though it is also common in visitations where there is conflict between the adults involved.  It could be there was friction between Mike and Stacey, or it could be that Mike was just in a rush, after taking a few hours out of his hectic drug ring enforcer schedule to spend time with his beloved granddaughter.  IIRC, they both smiled and waved.

It will be interesting to see where Mike's relationship with his DIL goes and whether she is playing him, trying to help him get a fuller, happier life, or a bit of both.  

[Clanstarling]

36 minutes ago, Tatum said:

I soured on Stacey last season when she took Mike's money. I know, he offered, and maybe she legitimately believed her neighborhood was unsafe for Kaylee. But it just seems like once the offer was on the table, she went whole hog on a house she could never afford on her own, thus making an elderly man on a fixed income forever financially responsible for her.

But she knew Mike was more than a elderly man on a fixed income before she took any money from him. She knew he was a dirty cop. She probably figured if her husband had five grand (iirc) from the one time he took the money, then Mike must be rolling in it. The house thing was certainly over the top, but given everything, she probably believes (not entirely unfairly) that Mike owes his son's wife and daughter.

Now, I'm not a fan of Stacy, and I have gone back and forth on whether she's deliberately manipulating him, but whatever case, I don't think she was trying to squeeze blood out of a turnip. However, in this particular episode, her actions seemed entirely benign to me. She seemed pleased that Mike was connecting with Anita.

[Juliegirlj]

One thing Jimmy has in abundance, besides chutzpah, is pride. I'm wondering if his pride makes him somehow push  Kim away on purpose, rather than allow her to witness his financial decline. For many men, earning power and financial stability are a large part of their self worth and ego. ( Walter White and even Mike Ermentrout perhaps?) 

I wonder if the actress from Devil's Advocate was chosen as a wink wink- ( the Devil incarnate as an attorney ?!)

Edited May 26, 2017 by Juliegirlj

[rue721]

1 hour ago, Juliegirlj said:

One thing Jimmy has in abundance, besides chutzpah, is pride.

I don't think Jimmy has a lot of pride? If he did, I don't think he would be the kind of salesman he is. He never seems like he thinks he's too good for any job. And if he were prideful, I think he would feel more attached to all his (many) identities, too. I actually think that Jimmy's saving grace in general is humility.

[Bryce Lynch]

1 minute ago, rue721 said:

I don't think Jimmy has a lot of pride? If he did, I don't think he would be the kind of salesman he is. He never seems like he thinks he's too good for any job. And if he were prideful, I think he would feel more attached to all his (many) identities, too. I actually think that Jimmy's saving grace in general is humility.

I think Jimmy has generally been fairly humble.  But, I think pride is starting to creep in.  His not asking Kim for a few bucks to tip the delivery boy, much less to carry him on the office expenses for a month or two until he gets back on his feet, seemed like the result of pride that I am afraid will cause him a lot of trouble.

[LoneHaranguer]

1 hour ago, rue721 said:

I don't think Jimmy has a lot of pride? If he did, I don't think he would be the kind of salesman he is. He never seems like he thinks he's too good for any job. And if he were prideful, I think he would feel more attached to all his (many) identities, too. I actually think that Jimmy's saving grace in general is humility.

He has pride, but he's not conceited like Chuck.

[buttercupia]

per the bcs podcast in season one, the woman who played stacy in bb was an extra. they cast kerry condon partially because she resembles her in stature etc.

i don't ascribe ill intent to stacy. she's on her own. her husband is dead. she's raising a child on her own. if i had received offers of help from my deadbeat ex's family, i would certainly have taken them, and also jumped at the chance to have my kids know that part of their family. mike is her only connection to kaylee's dad. so i'll take it at face value until other evidence presents itself.

[RealReality]

On 5/24/2017 at 9:32 PM, LotusFlower said:

This is focusing on one thing she said in the meeting, and ignoring what she said next.  Plus, the two aren't mutually exclusive.  It's possible to make a step towards "moving on," and still need resolution.

Not really, you can still want to know something and be actively "moving on."  So no, I'm not ignoring one thing in favor of another.  There is no big reward in knowing, there is, at best an incremental reward given the fact that Anita is moving forward with her life.  She doesn't need resolution as she is moving forward without it.  And it certainly isn't worth the risk to Mike, his family, and maybe even Anita.

[RealReality]

On 5/25/2017 at 8:14 AM, Bryce Lynch said:

Oh, I agree, but he should have swallowed his pride and asked Kim if she could carry the load for a month or two. I believe this was just the sort of thing they had in mind when they opened the shared office, if one was in a dry spell, the other could help him/her through it.  He reminds me of Walt turning down help from Grethen and Elliot and lying to Skyler about it. 

He should have, but I thought Kim was pretty clear that she wanted to get rid of the office since she didn't think Jimmy would be able to help with the rent.  I think Kim/Jimmy had the one hand helps the other idea in mind when one of them wasn't facing a six month loss of all business.  I do think that Kim knows Jimmy is struggling, but she wants to let him keep his pride even though I think she would be perfectly fine without the office.  And honestly, she never really needed it, it was more for Jimmy.

[LotusFlower]

54 minutes ago, RealReality said:

Not really, you can still want to know something and be actively "moving on."  

That's what I said.  Two things at once.

[JFParnell]

In less serious BCS discussion, I forgot to mention this amusing tidbit  ... Jimmy quoting from "Ferris Bueller"! (Or, well, the writers arranging for Jimmy/Bob to quote from it.) "I weep for the future" he said of his young camera crew ... same as the snooty maitre d' in Ferris Bueller.  In BB Saul did remark, after all:  "God I miss the 80s," though I don't think the context was movies :)

Sorry if this was mentioned up yonder someplace, but, man, it's EIGHT pages of yonder now...

"4,500 restaurants in the downtown area -- I pick the one my father goes to."

[Gobi]

5 minutes ago, JFParnell said:

In less serious BCS discussion, I forgot to mention this amusing tidbit  ... Jimmy quoting from "Ferris Bueller"! (Or, well, the writers arranging for Jimmy/Bob to quote from it.) "I weep for the future" he said of his young camera crew ... same as the snooty maitre d' in Ferris Bueller.  In BB Saul did remark, after all:  "God I miss the 80s," though I don't think the context was movies :)

Sorry if this was mentioned up yonder someplace, but, man, it's EIGHT pages of yonder now...

"4,500 restaurants in the downtown area -- I pick the one my father goes to."

Good catch. I've never seen Ferris Buehler (don't blame me), so that escaped me.

[rue721]

I don't think it's pride that keeps him from taking Kim's money. If he really had plenty of pride, it wouldn't mean anything to him to ask her for money or to cover him, I think. Like how Chuck really didn't care about Jimmy's money worries about covering him in S1. It really didn't seem to make Chuck think any less of himself -- his self-regard is too powerful and stable for that. If Jimmy were really arrogant, I think he would outright act entitled to Kim's help or like he's too good to let a lack of money stop him. Arguably, that's more like how Chuck acts, too.

I think that Jimmy doesn't want to mooch off of Kim because he wants to continue being her partner (or as close to a partner as she will let him be). He wants to work WITH her, not take advantage of her. So he's got to do his share, bring in his share.

I think that Jimmy was afraid he was a born loser, so he's been busting his ass to make something of himself for 10~ years, and now that he finally has something -- clients, (quasi-)partnership with Kim, he's apparently even living with her (sleeping in a real bed) and is no longer crashing in the furnace room of a nail salon or on his brother's couch FFS -- he is desperate not to lose it. I think he was proud of himself for getting his shit together to this extent (and IMO if he's not, he should be), and his life burning down to the ground now is genuinely devastating to him. Especially since it was Chuck who poured the gasoline and lit the match.

Plus, I think he thinks he has something of a responsibility to Kim, because he agreed to go in with her on the office. Just like he didn't want to let Francesca go, he wouldn't take the camera crew girl's money, etc. In general, I don't think that Jimmy is a deadbeat. He can't follow the rules for the life of him, and he can be a callous asshole when he wants, but IMO he does take his responsibilities pretty seriously. I mean, he actually is good to his clients and works hard for them, too. Even in BB, from what I remember, that was still even true of Saul Goodman. Which is why I think it's interesting that in '92~, he latched onto Chuck and seemingly didn't even go back and see his elderly mother until her death. IMO it's interesting that they didn't have a better relationship, makes me curious about her. But I digress.

I think that, right now, Jimmy generally is trying to fight back by giving everyone a taste of their own medicine but even worse. Like how when he thought Howard hated him and was blocking him from coming into HHM as an associate, he said he was going to hate Howard back -- but harder. IMO he's giving everyone what they're dishing out but even more so.

One thing that still gives me hope for him, though, is that when he was in the insurance office telling the agent about his clients, he seemed to have some pride in saying that they loved him and he trusted them not to turn on him (and file suits against him). It was hearing from his clients that made him come back to ABQ in the first place, too. I think that he kind of needs to be needed. It'll be interesting to see how his relationship with his clients evolves as his clientele changes.

[Mick Lady]

On ‎5‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 9:33 PM, peeayebee said:

I like the crew working with him. It was a funny scene when they were all trying to get into his car with their equipment.

I thought for sure that Jimmy and Kim would pull a con (or try to) on one of the obnoxious guys in that bar. But then I also worried it would backfire.

Wow. Jimmy is a good actor. Those tears! But the whole thing was an act! I like Jimmy, but he's a vindictive bastard at times.

Mike giving advice to Nacho was good to see. I don't know how Nacho is going to pull it off, switching the pills back and forth. That'll be tense to watch.

"Gonna make you look like James Garner and Mariette Hartley." Blast from the past! Raise your hand if you know what Jimmy was talking about.

Long time lurker, I live on the Supernatural threads, but couldn't let this pass! peeayebee, you've bought back some great memories! I knew what you were referring to immediately, now I have to see if they are on YouTube!

As for this episode, I don't think Jimmy realized Chuck used the same insurance company as he did until the agent asked if he was Charles. I believe his plan was off the cuff, for payback when he realized he'd lose all the insurance money he paid. Just another way Chuck screwed him, and it was too much!

[RealReality]

5 hours ago, rue721 said:

I don't think it's pride that keeps him from taking Kim's money. If he really had plenty of pride, it wouldn't mean anything to him to ask her for money or to cover him, I think. Like how Chuck really didn't care about Jimmy's money worries about covering him in S1. It really didn't seem to make Chuck think any less of himself -- his self-regard is too powerful and stable for that. If Jimmy were really arrogant, I think he would outright act entitled to Kim's help or like he's too good to let a lack of money stop him. Arguably, that's more like how Chuck acts, too.

 

I think pride can keep people from getting the help they need.  I remember watching a short story on food pantry's and how a number of people will starve and actively avoid them out of pride.  Unless they have children, in which case they will go.

I don't remember Jimmy covering Chuck monetarily in S1.  But I don't think pride necessarily leads people to entitlement, I think maybe arrogance does, but I'm not sure I think pride and arrogance are the same things.  

I think its Jimmy's pride that won't let him humble himself to admit to Kim that he needs the financial help right now.  And because he knows that the minute he asks, she will just want to go with her original plan of getting rid of the office.....which makes the most logical sense.  She really doesn't need an office, and with a few adjustments I think she would be fine working out of her house (to my knowledge there are attorneys that do this -- PTV attorney network weigh in if I'm wrong!)

6 hours ago, Gobi said:

Good catch. I've never seen Ferris Buehler (don't blame me), so that escaped me.

This feels like some sort of generational crime.  I think its on Netflix, and I recommend watching it, if for no other reason than to understand the references people make to the movie.  There is a pizza hut/dominos commercial out there right now that makes so much more sense if you've seen the movie.

Edited May 27, 2017 by RealReality

[Gobi]

1 hour ago, RealReality said:

I think pride can keep people from getting the help they need.  I remember watching a short story on food pantry's and how a number of people will starve and actively avoid them out of pride.  Unless they have children, in which case they will go.

I don't remember Jimmy covering Chuck monetarily in S1.  But I don't think pride necessarily leads people to entitlement, I think maybe arrogance does, but I'm not sure I think pride and arrogance are the same things.  

I think its Jimmy's pride that won't let him humble himself to admit to Kim that he needs the financial help right now.  And because he knows that the minute he asks, she will just want to go with her original plan of getting rid of the office.....which makes the most logical sense.  She really doesn't need an office, and with a few adjustments I think she would be fine working out of her house (to my knowledge there are attorneys that do this -- PTV attorney network weigh in if I'm wrong!)

This feels like some sort of generational crime.  I think its on Netflix, and I recommend watching it, if for no other reason than to understand the references people make to the movie.  There is a pizza hut/dominos commercial out there right now that makes so much more sense if you've seen the movie.

Even though I haven't seen it, it feels like I have, due to all the clips, etc. I've seen. I immediately recognized the reference in the Deadpool stinger, for example.

[RealReality]

1 minute ago, Gobi said:

Even though I haven't seen it, it feels like I have, due to all the clips, etc. I've seen. I immediately recognized the reference in the Deadpool stinger, for example.

fair enough.  Its a pretty good movie though....a classic that has held up so if you get a chance and you feel like it might be vicariously fun to watch a bunch of teens have a wacky adventure as they ditch class for the day you should check it out.  Also, Jennifer Grey as someone other than Baby in Dirty Dancing.

[queenanne]

On 5/23/2017 at 3:09 AM, Lonesome Rhodes said:

Because her authentic self loves Jimmy, the criminal, the jerk deserved it, and most importantly - she knows good and darn well Jimmy is broke and needs the cash.  She is not smart enough to handle the self-parsing of truth and refusal to ask reasonable questions/demand answers of Jimmy.  

She has no business whatsoever retaining any ties with Jimmy if her prime concerns are such as those to which you allude.

 

On 5/23/2017 at 3:03 AM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Why would Kim take part in  a scheme to commit fraud (sell a fake credit card) which, if she were caught, would lead to a felony charge and disbarment?  For kicks?  She's acutely aware of the outcome if the plan were to go south.  It's not just fun and games anymore; there are real consequences.  Besides, someone has to pay the electric bills.

 

On 5/23/2017 at 0:00 PM, rue721 said:

I don't think that she was really sitting in judgement of Jimmy, though. Just like when she saw the Saul Goodman commercial, I think that when she heard Jimmy talk about the con so seriously and bitterly, it startled her and made her think, "do I even know this guy?"

I don't think she *dislikes* Saul at all, but I think she realizes that he's a stranger to her. And I think that what really freaks her out is the idea that even if she feels like he's a stranger, they're already entangled and wrapped up together (and have even run cons together!) -- which IMO makes her feel like she's a stranger to herself. Or that she's not who she thought she was.

Yes, agree with all of this.  I think that's clearly why Kim veered away from discussing it once she observed Jimmy's actual seemingly sincere bitterness.  Ultimately though I'm not as clever as Vince Gilligan by half, it wouldn't surprise me if that was the breaking point for Kim - she either actively or secondhandedly is solicited in with a "Slippin' Jimmy" scheme, and/or takes the fall for being in the driver's seat on one of Jimmy's cons.

[JudyObscure]

So there's only one more episode and they aren't showing it Monday night? Instead they're showing a marathon of the first seven episodes? Is this the final season?  Why do I let AMC jerk me around like this?

[Gobi]

33 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

So there's only one more episode and they aren't showing it Monday night? Instead they're showing a marathon of the first seven episodes? Is this the final season?  Why do I let AMC jerk me around like this?

Better call Saul!

[rue721]

37 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

So there's only one more episode and they aren't showing it Monday night? Instead they're showing a marathon of the first seven episodes? Is this the final season?  Why do I let AMC jerk me around like this?

There are three more episodes. I think they're just skipping Monday because it's Memorial Day and everyone is out of town.

It hasn't been renewed S4 yet. *crosses fingers*

[ComtesseCrumpet]

On 5/24/2017 at 10:37 PM, Bryce Lynch said:

I think Gilligan has great legal, chemical and law enforcement consultants, but needs a better accounting consultant.  On BB, with Beneke Fabricators, they conflated "cooking the books" by showing revenue with no back up with tax evasion.  If he was booking fake revenue, he would have overpaid on his taxes, not underpaid.

From an accounting standpoint, revenue is recorded during the period in which it is earned (not necessarily when payment is received, although that can coincide, but when earned). Skyler says that she checked the bills of sale for several clients and found that revenue reported did not match sales. It was under-reported by 10% for every quarter for two years. Under-reported revenue would lower the companies tax obligation. She also found that some of the bills of sale were xeroxed and had their dates changed which indicates to me that he was holding off recording some of the revenue to a future quarter so as to lower his tax liability in another quarter. When Skyler meets with the tax auditor she plays the ditz and pretends to completely misunderstand how revenues, cash and AR are recorded to hide the fact that Beneke was committing tax fraud.

At any rate, the accounting bit made sense to me. The scheme was stupid and easy to trace by an auditor but it made sense in that the fraud would artificially lower the companies tax liability, not raise it.

Edited May 28, 2017 by ComtesseCrumpet

[rue721]

13 hours ago, RealReality said:

I don't remember Jimmy covering Chuck monetarily in S1.

It was alluded to back when Jimmy was desperate for Chuck to take the payout. I think it might have been all the way back in the pilot episode. Jimmy says that Chuck needs to take the payout because Chuck is out of money, and Jimmy can't support them both. Chuck says that nobody ever asked Jimmy to, and Jimmy says that Chuck didn't have to ask.

It bothered at me because I really doubt that Chuck is actually out of money. He's the founding partner of a huge firm, so he must have been making a lot of money for a lot of years, and he's been living as a hermit and spending practically nothing for a long time now. To be fair, he probably spent quite a bit on their mother's medical bills, but come on. And also, how would Jimmy even know whether Chuck has any money or not? Why would Jimmy have access to Chuck's bank information?

I think that Chuck probably got some past due notices from the mortgage company, the gas company, whatever, and Jimmy paid his bills, assuming that Chuck wasn't paying them himself because he was broke. Which makes me suspicious of Chuck. Maybe he thought that leaving out notices/bills and letting Jimmy pay them out of guilt was a way of getting back the $14,000 that he thinks Jimmy stole way back when. Or actually, maybe he did give Jimmy some bank information, thinking/hoping that Jimmy would steal from him like he supposedly did their parents, and he would have Jimmy dead to rights. I don't know.

Or maybe my suspicion is misplaced, and Chuck is just too sick to keep up with stuff like paying his own bills, and had no scheme in the works. This is a man who Jimmy had a sew a space blanket into clothes for. So I honestly think that's pretty possible, too.

Anyway, my point is ultimately that that is such a different dynamic than what Jimmy and Kim have going on. I mean, the dynamic between Jimmy and Chuck when Jimmy thought Chuck was broke, versus the dynamic between Kim and Jimmy now that Kim thinks that Jimmy is broke.

[peeayebee]

17 hours ago, Mick Lady said:

Long time lurker, I live on the Supernatural threads, but couldn't let this pass! peeayebee, you've bought back some great memories! I knew what you were referring to immediately, now I have to see if they are on YouTube!

Lurk no more! And, yes, I'm sure those commercials are on YouTube. I'm surprised when anything isn't. :)

 

16 hours ago, RealReality said:

This feels like some sort of generational crime.  I think its on Netflix, and I recommend watching it, if for no other reason than to understand the references people make to the movie.  There is a pizza hut/dominos commercial out there right now that makes so much more sense if you've seen the movie.

Gah. I hate that commercial. The guy in is a 4th-rate Matthew Broderick. Extremely annoying.

[Jextella]

11 hours ago, rue721 said:

It hasn't been renewed S4 yet. *crosses fingers*

Yikes!  I'd be pretty angry if we didn't get to see the show through  to where BB picks up - minimally.

On 5/25/2017 at 1:54 PM, PeterPirate said:

I don't know of any real evidence that points to improper motives on Stacey's part. Mike had to push her very hard to get her to talk about the gunshot sounds she thought she heard. She doesn't live the wild life and gives everything she has to her daughter. 

The only thing I know about Stacey in BB is that Mike didn't want her to know he bought ice cream for Kaylee. 

It also makes sense for Mike to try to get the money to his granddaughter since putting the money in Stacey's name would implicate her in a criminal conspiracy. 

I don't think we've seen motive but the night Mike parked in front of her house to see if he heard gunshots, there weren't any.  She said there were.  So, conflicting stories for sure.  Mike went so far as to ask her if she may have been dreaming.

Edited May 29, 2017 by Jextella

[Tatum]

1 hour ago, Jextella said:

Yikes!  I'd be pretty angry if we didn't get to see the show through  to where BB picks up - minimally.

I don't think we've seen motive but the night Mike parked in front of her house to see if he heard gunshots, there weren't any.  She said their were.  So, conflicting stories for sure.  Mike went so far as to ask her if she may have been dreaming.

Yeah I think the split is whether Stacey truly believes she heard gunshots and told Mike a lie unintentionally, or actually cooked up the scheme to get money out of Mike. 

 

I personally think Stacey believes she heard gunshots, was sincerely frightened, and had no idea Mike would offer to help her buy a house. I mean, yeah, he gave her cash, but a big difference between a couple hundred bucks and a house. That said, once he offered, I think she picked a house well out of her price range when a less expensive one would have sufficed. 

[Mick Lady]

On ‎5‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 11:29 AM, rue721 said:

I think that Jimmy was afraid he was a born loser, so he's been busting his ass to make something of himself for 10~ years, and now that he finally has something -- clients, (quasi-)partnership with Kim, he's apparently even living with her (sleeping in a real bed) and is no longer crashing in the furnace room of a nail salon or on his brother's couch FFS -- he is desperate not to lose it. I think he was proud of himself for getting his shit together to this extent (and IMO if he's not, he should be), and his life burning down to the ground now is genuinely devastating to him. Especially since it was Chuck who poured the gasoline and lit the match.

Plus, I think he thinks he has something of a responsibility to Kim

Wow Rue! I know you from Supernatural, so first "Hi!" : )

Your post is a lot to digest, but I think you're spot on. Your insight to his feelings about Chuck explains a lot. I can't imagine the betrayal he must feel. All the more reason for him to stand by Kim. Deep down, (or maybe not so deep) Jimmy's a good guy. I love how he treats his "elder" clients. I know, some is manipulation, but there's some genuine concern there, and I love that side of him!

Edited May 29, 2017 by Mick Lady

[Dev F]

22 hours ago, Jextella said:

I don't think we've seen motive but the night Mike parked in front of her house to see if he heard gunshots, there weren't any.  She said there were.  So, conflicting stories for sure.  Mike went so far as to ask her if she may have been dreaming.

But it's not like Mike stayed there all night and didn't hear anything; he discovered that the early-morning paper delivery resulted in some loud banging sounds as the papers hit the walks. I don't know why the show would bother to show us that unless the point was this is what Stacey was hearing, and in her troubled mind she legitimately thought they were gunshots.

[Clanstarling]

2 minutes ago, Dev F said:

But it's not like Mike stayed there all night and didn't hear anything; he discovered that the early-morning paper delivery resulted in some loud banging sounds as the papers hit the walks. I don't know why the show would bother to show us that unless the point was this is what Stacey was hearing, and in her troubled mind she legitimately thought they were gunshots.

I went back and forth on it for a little while, but I eventually came to the same conclusion.

[Jextella]

31 minutes ago, Dev F said:

But it's not like Mike stayed there all night and didn't hear anything; he discovered that the early-morning paper delivery resulted in some loud banging sounds as the papers hit the walks. I don't know why the show would bother to show us that unless the point was this is what Stacey was hearing, and in her troubled mind she legitimately thought they were gunshots.

Stacey said she heard the gunshots at around 2 am-ish (can't recall exactly...maybe 2:30...yes, I have no life and rewatched).  The papers weren't dropped until sunrise - several hours later.  I sort of think the opposite in that the producers wouldn't want nor need to take up so much screen time to show us it was just newspapers.  I think they showed us Mike staking out the house and having conflicting stories with Stacey to build up to something more.  Who knows what, but... something more.

I also wonder why in both BCS and BB, it's all about Kayley.  On the one hand, I get it.  She's Mike's granddaughter, his son's daughter.   But Stacey seems like a good person, mom, and wife.  I would think Mike would at least express having her interests in mind on occassion, but it never comes off that way.  There seems to be a bit of a disconnect.

Edited May 29, 2017 by Jextella

[Dev F]

4 minutes ago, Jextella said:

Stacey said she heard the gunshots at around 2 am-ish (can't recall exactly...maybe 2:30).  The papers weren't dropped until sunrise - several hours later.

No, the papers were delivered in the dead of night, then there's a dissolve to the next morning.

[Jextella]

I don't think so.  Sun was up - or rising.  I'll rewatch to be sure.

[ShadowFacts]

2 hours ago, Jextella said:

I also wonder why in both BCS and BB, it's all about Kayley.  On the one hand, I get it.  She's Mike's granddaughter, his son's daughter.   But Stacey seems like a good person, mom, and wife.  I would think Mike would at least express having her interests in mind on occassion, but it never comes off that way.  There seems to be a bit of a disconnect.

One possibility is that he senses that she is a little too eager to accept his monetary help.   That said, I think he comes off as reasonably caring about Stacey, too, not just Kaylee.  He's said words to the effect, "whatever you need, honey."  He's doing the grief support group things for Stacey.

[Bryce Lynch]

2 hours ago, Dev F said:

No, the papers were delivered in the dead of night, then there's a dissolve to the next morning.

This is 100% correct.  It was totally dark when the papers were delivered.  Also, the thuds of the papers hitting the pavement were very loud.  Mike took his pistol out of the glove compartment and loaded the chamber when he heard them.

[Bryce Lynch]

46 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

One possibility is that he senses that she is a little too eager to accept his monetary help.   That said, I think he comes off as reasonably caring about Stacey, too, not just Kaylee.  He's said words to the effect, "whatever you need, honey."  He's doing the grief support group things for Stacey.

It is also possible that on BB the writers were not putting a whole lot of thought into Stacey's character and her relationship with Mike.  They had an extra play Stacey, so she was a very minor character.

I think Mike was putting the money in Kaylee's name for 2 reasons:

1) To show that he was a doting grandfather.

2) More importantly, to create a reason why Mike didn't get arrested along with all his guys, when the offshore bank accounts Fring had been depositing the hazard pay into were discovered by law enforcement.

Edited May 30, 2017 by Bryce Lynch

[Bryce Lynch]

I noticed in the bar scene, Jimmy was drinking Old Fashioneds.  With him currently being an ad man, I wonder if this was a nod to Don Draper.