S05.E22: Missing

[BkWurm1]

On 5/18/2017 at 8:18 PM, Mrs. de Winter said:

I am guessing any Felicity and Slade will be no more than a snarky exchange of a line or two.  But Chase is this season's big villain so I need some exchange between the two.  I know it will be short since it doesn't involve a) fighting/stunts or b) the dumb kid.  

I am also still curious if Chase had any knowledge of Helix given that he was the one who produced the drive that was used to help Diggle. 

Technically he didn't provide the drive.  He just pointed her in the direction of the info she needed but it was supposed to have already been deleted.  Only Helix had done a data dump that included it so she had access still.  Technically Chase gave them a lead that should have been a dead end.  So maybe Helix really was just a curve ball he had to roll with.  Maybe Diggle was never supposed to have been freed.  

Edited May 22, 2017 by BkWurm1
roll not role

[BunsenBurner]

My brother and I kinda of sort of liked this episode. 

I thought the buying of socks was hilarious the 2nd time I watched after it was suggested on twitter that socks were code for condoms.

O telling D & F to spilt up from him was stupid but that is always stupid when going into a fight like they were expecting.

When I saw the cake I thought there was a mistake because to me the GA looked like a 3 along with the 6 and all I could think of was that was SA's actual age and not OQ's.

 

 

[benteen]

Great episode, I really enjoyed it.  If it wasn't for the fact that the show was renewed weeks ago, this definitely could have led into a series finale.

I loved the birthday party as well and am glad they gave them several minutes.  Loved all the callbacks and getting to see Malcolm, Slade and Nyssa.  I agree that KC is better as Black Siren. 

[Featherhat]

re Oliver and William. Too little, too late. Plot Point.

[leopardprint]

This episode really highlighted that Arrow has become more hole than plot. 

 

Edited May 19, 2017 by leopardprint

[bethy]

15 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

This episode really highlighted that Arrow has become more hole than plot. 

 

Since I don't have a Facebook laughy-face reaction choice... ?

[Chaser]

That hiking comment by Felicity seems a lot less random now that I remember the Olicity hiking photo from S4. And did something happen to Oliver's socks on that trail?

Edited May 19, 2017 by Chaser

[tv echo]

At the end of this episode, right before he flies away from Oliver, Chase says, "I'll see you on the boat." What do you think he meant?  Was it a literal clue as to where he stashed William?  Or was it a figurative jab? I mean, Oliver flew to Lian Yu.

Edited May 19, 2017 by tv echo

[Trisha]

28 minutes ago, tv echo said:

At the end of this episode, right before he flies away from Oliver, Chase says, "I'll see you on the boat." What do you think he meant?  Was it a literal clue as to where he stashed William?  Or was it a figurative jab? I mean, Oliver flew to Lian Yu.

MG answered an ask about this and said something along the lines of how Chase is "looking very deeply at the chess board," so I think it's a literal clue.

Also, I was rewatching the party scene (because of course) and did anyone catch what Felicity said before "ruse"? She was really mumbling but it sounded like "dinner at Chez Marc." I would get such a kick out of it if they threw in a shout out to MG and no one noticed, but everyone freaked out over the Lord Mesa one. 

[tv echo]

I heard Chez Mart-something...

Felicity: "So subtle. I guess since the dinner at Chez [unintelligible word-Martin?] was a ruse, they thought we deserved some alone time."

[ComicFan777]

My subtitles say: Chez Marta

[leopardprint]

My CCs said "Chez Marta".

The CCs that finally worked on the CW app. Hooray!

Edited May 19, 2017 by leopardprint

[SmallScreenDiva]

9 hours ago, Chaser said:

That hiking comment by Felicity seems a lot less random now that I remember the Olicity hiking photo from S4. And did something happen to Oliver's socks on that trail?

Which explains the suddenly very interested look Oliver gets :P

I'm watching the episode again and fully enjoying Thea trying to get Oliver to reveal the dinner with Felicity and teasing him. 

[jay741982]

9 hours ago, Chaser said:

That hiking comment by Felicity seems a lot less random now that I remember the Olicity hiking photo from S4. And did something happen to Oliver's socks on that trail?

He didn't have "Socks" AKA Condoms? 

[Delphi]

 I've been known to use a sock for clean up purposes,  just saying.

Upon further reflection,  while Malcolm insulting Oliver was no doubt a great line, I think Nyssa throwing mad shade at Malcolm might have been my favourite part of that episode. 

[leopardprint]

28 minutes ago, Delphi said:

Upon further reflection,  while Malcolm insulting Oliver was no doubt a great line, I think Nyssa throwing mad shade at Malcolm might have been my favourite part of that episode. 

While I would certainly never begrudge anyone insulting Oliver's intelligence, Merlyn really lost me this episode with his child devotion spiel given the entire S3 storyline was his child suffering the consequences of his actions because he didn't want to. 

Edited May 19, 2017 by leopardprint

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Arrow Is One Episode Away From Retirement

Team Arrow is all set for some offseason fun, but it turns out Prometheus isn't done with them yet.

[statsgirl]

1 hour ago, leopardprint said:

While I would certainly never begrudge anyone insulting Oliver's intelligence, Merlyn really lost me this episode with his child devotion spiel given the entire S3 storyline was his child suffering the consequences of his actions because he didn't want to. 

Not to mention Tommy suffering for most of his life because of Daddy Dearest and eventually dying because of his actions.

Just like with Joe and Barry on The Flash, I think Oliver is Malcolm's favourite child.

Edited May 19, 2017 by statsgirl

[leopardprint]

Only boy children and fathers matter on Arrow. Daughters are for forced marriage, brainwashing, erasing and abandoning. 

Edited May 19, 2017 by leopardprint

[TwistedandBored]

I really love the episode. Love everything Olicity. I actually like the OTA moment where they all walked to the computer...very season 2 OTA. I just hate everything William though. 

Also, the whole "that is my boy" line. That line should be nominated for the worst line of the season. Yikes. 

Edited May 20, 2017 by TwistedandBored
grammar

[icandigit]

So here is my socks theory. One of my all time favorite shows was Haven on Syfy. In a rare moment when the characters had downtime. One of them got new socks and it was a big deal. I think it was written into Haven because one of the writers or crew never bought new socks or something like that. One of the writers on that series Speed Weed.  So there is my conspiracy theory. Total Haven shout out.

Edited May 19, 2017 by icandigit

[SmallScreenDiva]

1 hour ago, icandigit said:

So here is my socks theory. One of my all time favorite shows was Haven on Syfy. In a rare moment when the characters had downtime. One of them got new socks and it was a big deal. I think it was written into Haven because one of the writers or crew never bought new socks or something like that. One of the writers on that series Speed Weed.  So there is my conspiracy theory. Total Haven shout out.

I watched Haven and I seem to recall that but for the life of me can't come up with the scene or the characters. Are you on Twitter? Ask Speed Weed :)

[Doyounot]

Sorry im repeating other posts too much to read. Loved seeing black siren again! Some people were saying she doesnt show any emotion but i disagree especially when playing black siren i think this type of character is more in her wheelhouse than pretending to be the goody goody that laurel was supposed to be. She can play a "good person" its just gotta be written believably so the whole "redemption" arc of black siren i think will be good (even if i dont think she needs to be "good" but i get it for her to stay on the show she cant be a villain). I bought her scenes with quentin maybe because i assume she feels like the other characters do when they see her that in their head they know shes different but it looks just like her so its hard not to see "their laurel" in her. Very effective villain cause she knows she can get away with so much.

Loved seeing nyssa malcom slade yao fai even pre island laurel i thought was good (thats totally what oliver would think of her being like). At this point bringing characters back/referencing things that happened before giving me flashbacks to when i enjoyed this show so much more is the only thing that keeps me enjoying myself! Next season could be better though what with the black siren hopefully coming back full time and no more flashbacks from those 5 years added on. Also curtis made me laugh recapping his thoughts on oliver and felicity interactions at the party and it is a soap opera just mixed with some fight scenes.

[leopardprint]

The William stuff really fell flat on its face for me because Oliver DID NOTHING to prevent it. He has known for 6 episodes Chase is gunning for the kid and he DID NOTHING. I can't take this storyline seriously because there was also a minor child custody storyline taking place and Oliver said boo about his situation. 

I don't know how genius a villain is if they have to paralyze the hero for the plans to work. That's basically how Oliver has been this entire season about everything, totally feckless. 

[statsgirl]

To be fair, once Oliver clued in that Chase knew about William, he asked Felicity to find him.  Felicity reported that she couldn't find him and Samantha so they concluded that Spawn and Bad Parent were so well hidden Chase wouldn't be able to find them.  And then Chase was captured so the emergency was over.

Stupid for Plot, but not entirely negligent.

[leopardprint]

Except that was still 4 episodes where he did nothing and then they just sort of shrugged their shoulders and forgot about Talia? 

I can handwave Felicity since she got right on it, but Oliver has no excuse. 

Edited May 20, 2017 by leopardprint

[Midnight Lullaby]

Oliver found out Chase knew about William in episode 17..he mentions it to Felicity in episode 20..it should have been the first thing after he let him go.

[leopardprint]

If they want us to accept William as the "purest part" of Oliver, maybe he should have shown some concern for him at any point in the last 28 episodes. 

He showed more concern for Susan's Job (not Susan just her job). Oliver has been proactive on four things this season, Susan's job, covering up Billy's murder, freeing Diggle and judging Thea/Felicity. A Hero. (and Bratva, forgot about that)

Geez, I was seriously triggered by that entertainment monthly review. ?

Edited May 20, 2017 by leopardprint

[bijoux]

9 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

Oliver found out Chase knew about William in episode 17..he mentions it to Felicity in episode 20..it should have been the first thing after he let him go.

Well, he did plan to swiftly have Chase executed after his release, thereby eliminating him as a threat. I think it was a dumbass plan to fall in with the Bratva without having any clue about what they would ask him in exchange, but still, it was proactive.

[way2interested]

I think by the time he let Oliver go, Oliver thought that Chase had "won" and that Chase wouldn't do anything anymore, thus giving Oliver a chance to sic the Bratva on him. Then, during 518, he disbanded the team and didn't want them involved with anything. During 518, Chase was pretty much cornered into protection and didn't have a chance to go after William (and Talia's part could have been seen as "done" since she trained Chase and Chase made Oliver suffer in 517). By the end of 518, Felicity was able to clear the footage of Chase being Prometheus for him to be arrested, giving them a "win," until Chase got away. Going into 519, Oliver then should have brought up that if Chase is in the wind, he might end up going after them/William, but I guess the problem there is that the only person who could have physically done anything on the protecting William front (Felicity) wasn't keen on talking to him at the moment and was only hyper-concerned on getting Chase rather than figuring out what Chase would be doing. Then, after getting through that plot and going into 520, Oliver figured that Chase, by locking them in the bunker yet not actually doing anything to him, was doing something besides just avoiding arrest and finally brought up that Chase mentioned looking for William to Felicity who was a bit more receptive to listen to him in that moment and quickly replied that William was off with a different identity so that there was no way that Chase could find him. 

So, arguably, I can kind of see why he didn't mention in in 518 and he probably should have mentioned it in 519, but opportunity-wise I kind of get why they didn't have him mention it until 520.

[leopardprint]

@way2interested, I agree that there was a lot going on but my argument is that the show is saying Chase taking William is so unconscionable, Oliver's breaking point, but at no time was securing William's safety the priority. When did Chase debut his catchphrase? 

I think they could have fixed this by at least having Oliver say, I called the Bratva because Chase threatened William. 

I think my overall point is that the whole Chase revenge plan is based on a) Oliver accepting everything he says at face value b) Oliver doing nothing until something blows up in his face. 

(I hope that makes some kind of sense?)

Edited May 20, 2017 by leopardprint

[Midnight Lullaby]

21 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Well, he did plan to swiftly have Chase executed after his release, thereby eliminating him as a threat. I think it was a dumbass plan to fall in with the Bratva without having any clue about what they would ask him in exchange, but still, it was proactive.

IMO when a child is threatened the first instinct of a parent is to check on him. To make sure he is safe, then he can think about getting rid of the threat. He didn't even know how long it could take the Bratva to get rid of Chase and he didn't tell Diggle that he had to do it for William. And after that he still waited until he was trapped in the bunker with Felicity to mention that Chase knows about it. With William Oliver suffers from selective amnesia..when he isn't in front of him, he doesn't exist,

.

[insomniadreams88]

The problem with the William part of it is simply that they wanted him part of Chase's play in the final 2 episodes, but they also wanted Chase to taunt him with him in episode 17, so we're left trying to reason why it took until episode 20 for William to be mentioned again. 

Hey, Oliver still hasn't told anyone that Chase broke into Felicity's and took her glasses. 

[way2interested]

Just now, leopardprint said:

I agree that there was a lot going on but my argument is that the show is saying Chase taking William is so unconscionable, Oliver's breaking point, but at no time was securing William's safety the priority.

He kind of made it a priority even though Felicity told him it shouldn't be an issue in 520 (that he was in hiding so Chase couldn't find him), and then in 521 and 522 he brought it up to Felicity who repeatedly mentioned how she couldn't find him, so Chase wouldn't either. Even if Oliver figured that Chase found him even though Felicity couldn't, there's not much he could have done at that point except worry, which he still did. The only options at that point would be find William and protect him (which Felicity couldn't) or find Chase and stop him (which is what they were doing). There's only so much he could have done to make William a priority until he found out that he was actually kidnapped.

1 minute ago, leopardprint said:

I think they could have fixed this by at least having Oliver say, I called the Bratva because Chase threatened William. 

I agree, although at that point he was shutting the team out of his decision in calling in the Bratva and thought that he made everyone around him worse off, so ehh? 

4 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

I think my overall point is that the whole Chase revenge plan is based on a) Oliver accepting everything he says at face value b) Oliver doing nothing until something blows up in his face. 

That's fine, and I agree to a certain extent (but that's a different talk or whatever). I was just arguing against the idea that Oliver did nothing regarding the William thing until his over-emotional reaction in 522. He was concerned but just couldn't do anything either literally (520/521/522) or because plot (518/519). I didn't like how it was executed in 522 either, but I think it wasn't "doing nothing," which you were saying before.

[leopardprint]

For me, at least, I agree with @Midnight Lullaby, not immediately attempting to contact Samantha and telling her that there is an explicit, viable, ongoing threat is doing nothing even moreso after his attempts to neutralize the threat failed, repeatedly. It was too little, too late. I think his reactions fit the "an innocent" kid not the "my boy" or "the purest part of me". 

My charitable read (now that I have calmed down from that review) is that William is more like the final straw rather than the lynchpin for that weird overemotional reaction, but his shock just made no sense. That whole final conversation made Oliver look like Merlyn really shouldn't let him handle sharp objects. 

Edited May 20, 2017 by leopardprint

[Midnight Lullaby]

10 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

For me, at least, I agree with @Midnight Lullaby, not immediately attempting to contact Samantha and telling her that there is an explicit, viable, ongoing threat is doing nothing even moreso after his attempts to neutralize the threat failed, repeatedly. It was too little, too late. I think his reactions fit the "an innocent" kid not the "my boy" or "the purest part of me". 

My charitable read (now that I have calmed down from that review) is that William is more like the final straw rather than the lynchpin for that weird overemotional reaction, but his shock just made no sense. That whole final conversation made Oliver look like Merlyn really shouldn't let him handle sharp objects. 

He should have been freaking out the moment Chase let him go imo. You can't rationalize after a psychopath threatens your kid..it's an emotional reaction. It was an easy fix really..have him ask Felicity right away to find him and show us in 520 Chase took him already..it would have also been a way to make the audience connect with this story..to make us feel the urgency to find this kid. Instead they look for him when we know Chase has him already so we know it's a waste of time..there's not even the curiosity to see if they will find him in time.

And the exact same thing happened last year with MM. He told Oliver he knew about William, threatened him and Oliver did absolutely nothing.

The writers are lazy.

[leopardprint]

13 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

The writers are lazy.

I don't even know if it's even entirely just that, it's like they put extra effort and relish making Oliver stupid. How many times this season and in this episode was his response to a plan not working to then double down on it?  He ignored his instincts about Chase so he then ignores his instincts about keeping Felicity/Diggle close?  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Edited May 20, 2017 by leopardprint

[TwistedandBored]

17 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

The writers are lazy.

That should be one of Arrow's tag line for many things really. 

[way2interested]

1 hour ago, leopardprint said:

 

For me, at least, I agree with @Midnight Lullaby, not immediately attempting to contact Samantha and telling her that there is an explicit, viable, ongoing threat is doing nothing even moreso after his attempts to neutralize the threat failed, repeatedly.

 

All I'm saying is that not immediately doesn't equal "doing nothing." Literally by trying to find them in general, even later than some people want, is by definition "doing something about it."  Plot and then inability to contact/find Samantha and the kid prevented him from preventing Chase from kidnapping the kid.

[apinknightmare]

Oliver's never really given much of a shit about William's safety - he did nothing about Malcolm knowing about him, even after Malcolm vowed to make Oliver pay for chopping off his hand and taking Ra's away from him. He wasn't super pressed about Chase knowing about his existence, either. It's why the emotional stakes in these last two episodes are pretty non-existent. William's nothing but a body to kidnap - someone who ~matters to Oliver only when the plot demands it. Objectively I know that Oliver cares about him and of course he's scared and wants him safe - but the show hasn't ever shown that. It's why the "He's my boy!" and Oliver being unwilling to cave to Chase's demands when the lives of people we know he cares about (because we've seen it), but willing to free Adrian immediately when HIS BOY is threatened falls so flat. 

[Angel12d]

What's really frustrating is if the writers knew William was going to be the emotional crux of these last couple of episodes, they easily could've shown a few moments here and there throughout the season where Oliver, you know, even remembered he had a son. Maybe even a single mention would've helped. Anything to show that he thinks about him or that not being in his life is difficult for him. But they did nothing. Quelle surprise.

[AudienceofOne]

2 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

What's really frustrating is if the writers knew William was going to be the emotional crux of these last couple of episodes, they easily could've shown a few moments here and there throughout the season where Oliver, you know, even remembered he had a son. Maybe even a single mention would've helped. Anything to show that he thinks about him or that not being in his life is difficult for him. But they did nothing. Quelle surprise.

This is the season where they gave Felicity a random boyfriend, then killed him, then had her forget about that for about 8 episodes. Also, apparently there was this character called "Susan" who seems to have disappeared???

Emotional resonance is not their strong suit.

[Angel12d]

3 minutes ago, AudienceofOne said:

This is the season where they gave Felicity a random boyfriend, then killed him, then had her forget about that for about 8 episodes. Also, apparently there was this character called "Susan" who seems to have disappeared???

Emotional resonance is not their strong suit.

Haha, I know. I agree. It's just annoying how so many things could be so easily fixed!

[calliope1975]

I like to think that Oliver thinks about Spawn the way I do - out of sight, out of mind. Well, I prefer to believe he's been erased from existence but Larry can't even get that one thing right. 

Seriously, though, it's flat out bad writing.

[icandigit]

I would comment on the episode outside of the bday festivities. But, unfortunately I haven't figured out how to convey my audible groans of misery on a message board. I do have a question for the Felicity and Olicity whispers out there. I apologize if I have the wrong thread. As a viewer I can see that Felicity is Oliver's sun, moon and stars. Why did she inquire about his other reason for keeping her close in the bunker? Its not reassurance or insecurity. So what is it?

[Carrie Ann]

I think she was confirming his ulterior motives but also challenging them. To make sure he was suggesting this course of action for the right reasons and not just to keep her where he thought she was safest. 

[leopardprint]

2 hours ago, Carrie Ann said:

I think she was confirming his ulterior motives but also challenging them. To make sure he was suggesting this course of action for the right reasons and not just to keep her where he thought she was safest. 

There were a lot of references to intuition/gut feelings in this episode, I'm wondering if they are going to tie it into Oliver not trusting himself and Chase mindgames in the finale, like Oliver will have to stop second guessing himself and trust himself to beat Chase (through a peptalk from Felicity). 

[Cthulhudrew]

On 5/20/2017 at 1:55 PM, leopardprint said:

For me, at least, I agree with @Midnight Lullaby, not immediately attempting to contact Samantha and telling her that there is an explicit, viable, ongoing threat is doing nothing even moreso after his attempts to neutralize the threat failed, repeatedly. 

Speaking of Samantha, do we think that Chase killed her or otherwise kidnapped her, too? Because if not, why the hell hasn't she contacted Oliver about her missing son?

It looks like the Vigilante sub-plot has been completely ditched for the season (along with Susan). I recall reading where the showrunners said the Vigilante's identity probably wouldn't get revealed until next season, but for the moment, the character's involvement in anything at all seems entirely pointless so far. 

Let's just hope they don't make him one of Ollie's "Time Remnants."

[EmilyBettFan]

They love to tell but not show for a lot of aspects concerning the show.

Sometimes I wonder though if they don't want to go too overboard with this bmd storyline because of all the backlash from before. You know the actual right backlash of the stupid storyline of the dumb mom and kid. Not the Oliver and Felicity part.

[lemotomato]

3 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

Speaking of Samantha, do we think that Chase killed her or otherwise kidnapped her, too? Because if not, why the hell hasn't she contacted Oliver about her missing son?

Spoiler

In the promotional stills for 523, Samantha is on Lian Yu with the others.