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S03.E19: Heroes Rise: All Will Be Judged

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Temple Shaman reveals his hand to Bruce Wayne and sets up the next phase of training. Gordon and Bullock are put into danger as they come across a crystal owl that reveals the most coveted secrets of Gotham's underworld. Meanwhile, Nygma and Penguin are forced to work together to get out of a tricky situation.

 

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First off Barbara and Tabitha get a commercial but not a storyline?  Just putting it out there.

Oh Lee what have you done?  Called it though that Lee would get infected with the Tetch virus before the season was out.  I am seriously looking forward  to VirusLee.

Ed and Ozwald acted like two people who just broke up and were still very bitter about it.

The Bruce stuff still does nothing for me.

Barnes and his snazzy new suit was fun as usual especially when he kept trying to hold trials.  

Good cop.  Bad Butler.

Edited by Chaos Theory
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How many times is James Gordon's life gonna be in danger? I was surprised that the head of the court of owls was killed.

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Last week held my attention. This week I was bored. Very bored. If it wasn't for some good moments from Bullock and Alfred- and Kathrine getting her head chopped off- I might have rated this "F" for "filler".

Because that's what this obviously was. Filler. Stuff moved forward, but nothing really happened. Lee stabbing herself with the virus was strange...but, hey, if this gives us something useful for Morena Baccharin, I'm all for it.

(Unless she becomes Harley Quinn. Just not seeing how Baccharin can pull that off)

The Bullock Meter:

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Harvey was absent for long stretches in the episode and really didn't get too much until Alfred came in to report that Bruce was missing. Then Bullock really shined, stating "I need to sit down" (to process all the craziness) in order to hit the bottle and see if that would help him make sense of the madness. Donal Logue didn't have to do much, but he was excellent in bringing out the best of Bullock here. This show desperately needs someone to be the smart-mouthed "audience surrogate" and Bullock plays that role perfectly.

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Now can Lee just die?!

If it wasn't for her miserable, whiny, self righteous, bitch-twit ass, I would have loved this episode. So much fun to be had, with Jim trash-talking Barnes, shooting off the ax-handHarvey's exasperation with all hell breaking loose, the gate-man ever with Penguin and Riddler reluctantly breaking out of prison together and promising to kill each other later, Katherine getting beheaded....sigh.

Alfred as always was the MVP. I don't know which part I loved more: him torturing Katherine or calling Selina out on her snotty refusal to help find Bruce. If only someone would put Lee in her place too.

Like I said before, show: either Lee goes or we are through.

Edited by Spartan Girl
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Solid episode! Love it when things go bonkers, because it's usually really fun in those moments.

Good:

  • The fights and stuff. Nice action. Woo, Selina! 
  • I'm pretty sure Harvey is pretty much everyone's spirit animal at this point
  • Savage Alfred!!!!!! Also, MY BOY!!!!!! he called bruce his boy!!
  • Wasn't expecting Kathyrn to be offed this episode, so that was a nice surprise! And Barnes got his hand shot off!
  • Oswald and Ed's petty squabbling in the cages! Enjoying their newfound petty rivalry. Bracing myself for the hate: Probably one of the few people that never shipped nygmobblepot... I enjoyed their scenes together but I always found it one-sided, and Ed basically confirms it again this episode. Glad to see that Ozzy seems to be moving on a bit. Here for them trying to outdo each other! Them being enemies is gonna be great, though. They're both so petty and bitter and I love it! 
  • Ed's very pronounced evil laugh when he shot Ozzy with a dart
  • Lee's scene with jervis was decent, however what happens at the end of the episode...
  • Barnes evil villain costume. So terrible but in the "so cheesy it's good" kinda way. Made me smile, at least. So ridiculous.
  • Alfred and that red jello for MVP

The bad:

  • Lee. Didn't think she was actually dumb enough to inject herself with the virus. 
Edited by HoodlumSheep
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Remember when NBC Universal got the right to Walker, Texas Ranger, and Conan O'Brien would play random insane bits on his show? Really hoping something similar happens with Gotham in the future. This episode alone . . . damn.

So Barnes is KGBeast now? Man, I wish there was a cure to the Tetch virus, so Barnes can get help. And the everybody can bust his balls about him looking like an old man who got abducted by his grandkids and got brainwashed by a cult based in a Hot Topic. I guess they don't make "Daddy's Little Monster" shirts in his size.

Seriously, just once, I want the precinct to go under siege yet again, and I want somebody offscreen to shout, "That's it. I'm out."

Alfred does not shiv. He lost to DoppelBruce, but he made an impression on Katherine.

Really hoping we get a new captain next season. Harvey would probably leave a hole in the wall fleeing when the inevitable next crisis hits.

Oswald and Ed? Still cute. And I'm hoping Bruce is snowballing the shaman.

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Lee...is so dumb. I have hardly ever despised a character so much, because her perspective is, to me, so ridiculously shortsighted. She knows Jim. She's been with him. She still sees him working. She still sees principled to semi-principled people working with and protecting him. She won't listen to ANYONE. Jim is also an idiot, but at least he's trying to be productive. 

 

Lee: JIM IS EVIL!

Harvey: Something bigger is happening...

Lee: EVIL JIM IS DOING SECRET MURDER!

Lucius: The situation is far more nuanced than...

LEE: MARIOOOOOO

Jervis Tetch: I played you! Let me detail my plot to make you hate Jim, showing you how you were manipulated to hate Jim! 

Lee: I DO HATE JIM!

Barnes: Being evil and insane and hopped up on virus sure brings clarity.

Lee: I, TOO, NEED CLARITY!

Jim: Barnes just murdered tons of cops and is working with an evil shadow organization. Are you here to help?

Lee: LOL NO 

Lee: MARIOOOOOOO

Edited by Allie56
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I guess I am the only one who thinks Lee on the Tetch virus is the best thing ever.  Lee has been dabbling in the dark lately but having her go completely down the rabbit hole has the potential to be entertaining as hell.

Edited by Chaos Theory
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11 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

I guess I am the only one who thinks Lee on the Tetch virus is the best thing ever.  Lee has been dabbling in the dark lately but having her go completely down the rabbit hole has the potential to be entertaining as hell.

I don't think it's a bad idea, in principle. It will depend on how well Morena Baccarin plays it- especially if she turns into Harley Quinn- but it could be fun.

The problems I have with it are twofold:

  1. We kind of already have the "crazy, psycho evil queen" in Barbara Keen, who has done absolutely nothing since gaining that role. Is Lee going to be similarly shafted? Do we even need another psycho evil queen character?
  2. It's an annoying trend for these writers to think, "man, we've got this character we don't know what to do with- I know, let's turn them evil!". They did it with Barbara, they did it with Barnes and now they want to do it with Lee? Lazy, lazy, lazy writing.

I've said it too many times, but the show has too many characters and not enough organization. It would have been easy for the show to kill off characters and remove some deadweight, but given that the vast majority of the characters are already in the comics- including all the main characters- the show's hands are tied in this regard. Which means it would behove the show to figure out its narrative focus and organize the characters they do have into those circles, which I don't think the show has ever done.

This show has pretty much been "fly off the seat of their pants" writing and sometimes I wonder if these guys have any clue about what they're doing, especially with the characters.

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I can't help but wonder ........... why 3 cages??

Who were they going to put in the third cage??    Gordon???

Were they planning on some sort of "game"??  "All three of you hate each other, only two of you can escape, if you work together, blah blah blah".

I just seriously want to know what the Court was planning.

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Catherine is NOT running the Court of Owls...She admitted that much to Gordon...She was Riker to an as yet unseen Picard....

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I'm with ya, Harv. Just take a load off and take a drink - it's the only way you'll get through the insanity (good episode for him).

Hey, Lee - why don't you stop by the GCPD and dump on Jim some more because I don't think we've heard in the last five minutes and could use a refresher.

Gaaaaaaah! She's annoying as fuck. I just do not understand why she decided to inject herself with the virus. I mean, what is she trying t accomplish? Is she finally trying to work up the nerve to kill Jim? I hope Lee breaking bad makes her interesting, but I suspect she is just looking for new and interesting ways to dump on Jim.

Did not expect Kathryn to lose her head tonight. That was surprising. I was glad when Barnes was put out of commission so quickly, because...dude. He even had to sit on the bench in a courtroom to pass judgement? Just murder people and scream "GUILTY!" You don't have to go so deep in your cosplay, Nate. I'm bummed that he escaped.

The GCPD is the least secure building in the world. Harvey might want to do something about that.

Not an emotional reunion (in the strictest sense), but Ed and Oswald bickering like a couple of children was still entertaining. Those two are great together regardless of the state of their relationship. Also, way to play it cool, Ed, and totally prove that you don't feel a thing for Oswald:

Oswald and Ed's conversation on the dock:

Oswald: Killing me will change you because you'll be killing someone you love.

Ed: Please. I've killed before and I'm fine. Also? I don't love you.

Oswald and Ed this episode

Ed: Don't call me Ed! I'm The Riddler - I changed into him the moment I killed you! Also? I totally don't love you! That's why you came here, right? Because I don't love you? Not because I tried to kill you and destroyed everything you built, which are far more obvious reasons for revenge. It's totally because I didn't love you back. Loser.

The opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference. There's still a strong connection between these two, regardless of whether or  not romantic feelings play into it  or the fact they currently want to kill each other...maybe. I mean, if either of them were truly serious about killing the other, one or both of them wouldn't have made it out of the cages. Their escape plan involved quite a lot of trust between them - it included a moment when Ed had a sharp blade at Oswald's neck (which he could have totally used) and a moment when Ed had to count on Oswald unlocking his cage (Oswald could have easily just walked out the door, all, "So long, sucker"). Now they have a gentlemen's agreement to give each other enough time to shower, rest up, call backup, and then met up again...to totally kill each other. Right. How much you wanna bet they meet up all, "Okay, we're totally going to kill each other this time!" then they find out about the virus (of which is Ed already kind of aware), then they'll be all, "Oh. Well, whoever wins can't rule over a pile of rubble and virus-riddled bodies. Okay, so temporary truce until this virus thing is cleared up. Then we'll totally kill each other!" Until the next distraction comes. 

Though, Oswald, unless Freeze disappeared because he's been off recruiting more freaks, I don't think you can realistically call three people "an army" and you may be overplaying your hand here.

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I jumped for joy when Alfred knifed Ms Owl Queen's hand. Dude! I loved Lee when she was first introduced, but they've completely ruined that character for me. Shut up and die already! Sorry, but I also couldn't see passed Barne's costume and eye shadow. What's up with the hand blade glove thingy? I don't know if he's suppose to be a particular villain from the comics or not, but nothing is working here. 

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7 hours ago, Kostgard said:

The opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference. There's still a strong connection between these two, regardless of whether or  not romantic feelings play into it  or the fact they currently want to kill each other...maybe. I mean, if either of them were truly serious about killing the other, one or both of them wouldn't have made it out of the cages. Their escape plan involved quite a lot of trust between them - it included a moment when Ed had a sharp blade at Oswald's neck (which he could have totally used) and a moment when Ed had to count on Oswald unlocking his cage (Oswald could have easily just walked out the door, all, "So long, sucker"). Now they have a gentlemen's agreement to give each other enough time to shower, rest up, call backup, and then met up again...to totally kill each other. Right. How much you wanna bet they meet up all, "Okay, we're totally going to kill each other this time!" then they find out about the virus (of which is Ed already kind of aware), then they'll be all, "Oh. Well, whoever wins can't rule over a pile of rubble and virus-riddled bodies. Okay, so temporary truce until this virus thing is cleared up. Then we'll totally kill each other!" Until the next distraction comes. 

 

If it hadn't been for that fact that LESLIE INFECTED HERSELF ON PURPOSE WITH THE BLOODY TETCH VIRUS, Oswald letting Ed have access to his neck with a sharp implement would have been my stupidest move of the week. That is really living dangerously, Os. Ed does love a neck.

Although my first thought watching that scene was actually 'hoo boy, this is gonna inspire a boatload of fanfic'. Which I will totally read, not gonna lie.

ETA: Also, I love Alfred. That is all.

Edited by Blackcanary
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The Good:  

The Riddler and Penguin.  I do not "ship" the two of them but I always love to see them in scenes together because they really play off each other well.  Watching them bicker and plot against each other I could totally see the seeds of a long and complicated series of misadventures together over their careers.  They are two of the best actors on this show, in my opinion.

Alfred.  I absolutely love their take on Alfred and the guy that plays him pulls it off well.  This show would do well to feature Alfred more.

Bullock -  Just cause... Harvey.

 

The Average:

Barnes -  I love the actor's willingness to go for it all and I personally appreciate it but it just didn't do it for me.  I don't know quite what it was but where the Penguin comes off as gloriously, hilariously, evilly camp, Barnes just comes off as a buzzkill.  The guy breaks me out of the mood of the show when he's on screen and I can't tell if it's him or the way he's being written.

Selena -  Was nice to see her and I get that her one scene advanced her personal plot a bit in a  direction it needed to go but much like Alfred, I think the showrunners should consider down grading other characters to offer Selena some more airtime.  She's an asset and that one scene just left me wanting more.

 

The Bad:

Gordon:  I believe that he is the weakest character on the show and, bluntly, the weakest actor.  Their commitment to maintaining him as the primary protagonist is ultimately hurting the show and detracting from the many good things about Gotham.  James Gordan, as much as I love the character in the Batman mythos, is and was always intended to be a supporting character.  Trying to force him into the lead role is why Gotham so often comes off uneven and confusing.

Lee:  For god's sake, you have a great actress here.  Do something with her.  I sincerely hope that her taking the virus is a catalyst for something interesting but seriously... stop wasting that talent.  The way you've used her this season is just criminal.  

Overall Grade:

B-

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I am not sure I am following Lee's reasoning for infecting herself.  She is not stupid and that was such a stupid act.  I think part of the problem is that a lot of her actions are stemming from the death of Mario, and despite how they are trying to make it come off now, she and Mario never came off as a great love.  When he was alive, there was always a part of her drawn to Jim.  Maybe it is more out of guilt, because deep down she knows that Mario had a legitimate reason to be jealous which helped lead to his madness.

I agree, while an evil Lee sounds interesting, it is rather lazy writing, since we have seen it done with Barbara, and thenn both the Captain and Jim via the virus.

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The Barnes/Executioner stuff was entertaining enough, though yet again he was pretty much outsmarted by Gordon before escaping once again.

Kathryn lost her head and got her hand stabbed. Not surprised we lost her, though she was a decent enough antagonist.

The Bruce/Shaman scenes were decent enough but at least he's back in Gotham now. Selina should've had more to do in this one though.

Loved the Oswald and Nygma grudging team up scenes in this one.

Leslie taking the Tetch virus was all kinds of stupid though, 7/10

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5 hours ago, Blackcanary said:

If it hadn't been for that fact that LESLIE INFECTED HERSELF ON PURPOSE WITH THE BLOODY TETCH VIRUS, Oswald letting Ed have access to his neck with a sharp implement would have been my stupidest move of the week. That is really living dangerously, Os. Ed does love a neck.

I don't think it was that stupid. Oswald does know Ed fairly well. And the one thing the Riddler/Ed always does is play by the rules. It's one of the central tenets of his character. He might make the rules impossibly skewed in his favor, but once set he always abides by them. Once he agreed to the truce and the 6 hour "No Murder" window, Oswald could feel secure in trusting him.

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26 minutes ago, Maximum Taco said:

I don't think it was that stupid. Oswald does know Ed fairly well. And the one thing the Riddler/Ed always does is play by the rules. It's one of the central tenets of his character. He might make the rules impossibly skewed in his favor, but once set he always abides by them. Once he agreed to the truce and the 6 hour "No Murder" window, Oswald could feel secure in trusting him.

I'd struggle to place trust in the person who shot me last time I saw them. 

I do see what you're saying, but it seems to me that such a level of trust would have to be won back gradually. It wouldn't be there automatically after what happened, given Oswald sees it as such a betrayal and must make him question what he really does know of Ed.

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So much for hoping that Lee would just leave town.  

Now that she has injected herself, I wonder if she will be anymore watchable than she was before?  Probably not.

The best part of the episode were the scenes with Ed and Oswald.   Too bad they couldn't have been caged up for awhile longer.   

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Personally I think Lee is just going down a deep dark rabbit hole and is right now conflicted about her love for Mario and for Jim. Who was to blame?  Was Jim correct and Mario was already a lost cause long before he shot him or is Barnes correct and the virus is something that focuses instead of destroys you?  

If I didn't know better I would see this as an early Two Face storyline.  A woman tearing herself apart by love and hate.   The need to save people and wanting them to suffer.  I know I will ultimately be wrong and the show will botch it (the show still refuses to write for Barbara or Tabitha) but Lee on the Tetch virus has a lot of potential. An angry woman obsessed with a man she both loves...and hates.

Edited by Chaos Theory
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Questions:

1) So who is the leader of the Court of Owls?

2) Will Lee become a villainess?

3) Is the man that is training Bruce being honest about everything he is telling Bruce?

 

LOL lines:

1) Mario: Me, jealous of Jim Gordon?

  Lee: I'm sorry. You were.

Mario: But I'm taller than he is.

 

2) Harvey: Oh, Lucius says the basement. Then I guess we should check out the basement.

Jim: What is your issue with him?

Harvey: He's smarter than me.

 

3) Harvey: Wait, back up, I-I thought I heard you say "clone."

  Alfred: That's 'cause I did.

  Harvey: I got to sit down.

 

4) Harvey to Alfred: I can't even do a jigsaw puzzle. I just smash the pieces in with my fists till they fit.

 

5) Alfred: The woman from the Court of Owls?

  Harvey: Yeah. Right

Harvey: I mean, no! No. Not the woman from the Court of Owls! Oh, God, no. Not her.

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10 hours ago, Traveller519 said:

This week on Gotham, Alfred tells Selena to stay away from Bruce forever. And this time he REALLY means it!

To be fair, this was the first time he was 100 percent justified in kicking her out. It's one thing to be mad about Bruce not telling her about her mother. But to hold such a grudge that she won't lift a finger to help save him unless there's "something in it for her"? That's low. We already have one hateful, petty bitch on this show. We don't need another.

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Alfred slamming a knife through Katherine's hand and wiping that smug look off her face was awesome.  Barnes decapitating Katherine was more awesome.  Just not a good day to be Katherine.

They should make a drinking game out of every time a villain strolls right through the front door of the GPD and lights the place up, LOL.

You just knew Lee was going to infect herself.  That's one of the running jokes of this show, right?  All of Jim's exes go crazy town.

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16 hours ago, Writing Wrongs said:

Why don't they shoot Barnes in the head instead of repeatedly shooting his armor?

For the same reason that nobody so much as tried shooting Undead!Galavan anywhere but the chest or switched to armor piercing ammunition even after having witnessed dozens of bullets harmlessly bouncing off, because Barnes wasn't supposed to die yet.

Lee has become WORSE than Barbara ever was at this point, at least Barbara never tried to hide her stupid and vindictive actions beneath a veil of righteousness like Lee does. Might as well make Lee evil, the writers have more than proven that they are utterly incapable of writing anyone who isn't a total psychopath decently.

Edited by immortalfrieza
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Barnes evil villain costume. So terrible but in the "so cheesy it's good" kinda way. Made me smile, at least. So ridiculous.

God, who did poor Michael Chiklis piss off? I keep seeing him in roles where there's potential to do a lot and he always ends up in some "Mom bought my Halloween Costume at the knockoff Party City on Oct. 30th" outfit with  a bizarre axe hand the show never bothers to explain. Did Strange kit him out? Heaven forfend we actually have a scene connecting one site of craziness with another--these storylines are like playing Clue but you aren't allowed to move any of the pieces around the mansion.

Speaking of! Here's a riddle: What building in Gotham is less secure than the GCPD? Answer: Wayne Manor and its crazed adherence to fresh air and open windows while a fire blazes constantly in the hearth! God, Alfred! I love you, I will always love you, but seriously, to quote Harvey "You have ONE JOB."

The scene in said Wide Open Library, C'mon In And Just Abduct The Shit Out Of Us was very good--the fight between Selena and Thomas was excellently choreographed and really showed how Selena may be tough, but she's not used to going up against a trained fighter. Street kids and thugs, sure, but this one's out of her wheelhouse. Same with the tussle with Alfred and Thomas, even though I really have to call time on the amount of punishment we can expect Alfred to endure. He's not some Strange creation, he's just a regular human. A tough human, yes, but at this point he shouldn't be able to put shoes on, let alone go haring off to stab Katheryn in the hand (awesome as that was.)

In fact, this particular episode really should have been titled "Featuring the band Closed Head Injury with their opening act, Hand Damage." The sheer level of beatings, stabbings, blowings-up and limbs sheared off by shotgun was topping off even my "It's Gotham" acceptance level. 

The Good:

Katheryn's "You think I'm the leader? You really don't know anything, do you?" I was waiting for Gordon to just burst out laughing and say "Have you met me? That's my whole M.O.! Oh, and crazy exes. Yep. Being a dummy and crazy exes, that's me."

Alfred just getting fed to the tits and heading off for hand stabbings and frenzy while Harvey flails about inside his raincoat.

Thomas's switchup when he tells Alfred that Bruce is "playing his part." David Mazouz is such a great actor. 

The Bad:

The whole Executioner thing. Please stop trying to make this happen, show writers. It's not chiming and it's never going to.

The Endless Lee Bummer. I really had a pang of crazy hope that Mario was kept alive somehow and was controlling Lee during that opening scene, that's how pathetically eager I am that they quit writing her as such a drag-ass bint. But no, as usual, the writers A) have her double down on her idiocy and B) decide to trod that very well worn path and take her down the Bitches Be Crazy rabbit hole;  the phrase that comes to mind is "diminishing returns." 

If they had done anything else with Lee this whole season this storyline might have made some kind of sense or at least not been so infuriating. DanielG342 had a great idea of the idea of love and hate fighting it out inside a guilty psyche, but we aren't going to get anything that good.  Lee-vil is just going to be more of the same. 

Edited by Snookums
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7 minutes ago, Snookums said:

God, who did poor Michael Chiklis piss off? I keep seeing him in roles where there's potential to do a lot and he always ends up in some "Mom bought my Halloween Costume at the knockoff Party City on Oct. 30th" outfit with  a bizarre axe hand the show never bothers to explain. Did Strange kit him out? Heaven forfend we actually have a scene connecting one site of craziness with another--these storylines are like playing Clue but you aren't allowed to move any of the pieces around the mansion.

The Bad:

The whole Executioner thing. Please stop trying to make this happen, show writers. It's not chiming and it's never going to.

 

I think he's okay with it, and not because of the paycheck. Remember, he played a rock monster in two movies, and I don't think that was CGI. I will say that he probably kept cracking up. "Judge! Jury! AND EXECU- . . . oh, God. I'm sorry, I can't keep a straight face. I just can't. I never had this problem on The Shield."

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5 hours ago, Snookums said:

DanielG342 had a great idea of the idea of love and hate fighting it out inside a guilty psyche, but we aren't going to get anything that good. 

I should say that was @Chaos Theory not me who said it, but I'll concur that it would have been a great storyline for her. It's why I wish this show was a bit more patient in introducing canon characters- for situations like this.

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Ed & Oswald will take turns as Roadrunner & Coyote, avoiding increasingly elaborate Acme death traps and portable holes....

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Gordon: Fox, are you sure that Lee injected herself??

Fox: Yes, the empty syringe is over here

Gordon: Well she does not seem different from before..... 

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From last week's thread:

Quote

So there was a car commercial in the middle? So confused...

On ‎5‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 9:05 PM, Chaos Theory said:

First off Barbara and Tabitha get a commercial but not a storyline?  Just putting it out there.

Remember Longmire??

That show also had these stupid commercials (that would come on immediately at the start of the commercial break so at first you thought the show was continuing)

I also remember Revenge having these commercials in which the "secondary" characters were getting ready to go to a party hosted by Nolan.

Of course, we can hardly say that this is anything "new".  TV actors and actresses have been plugging cars during their shows for quite a while now.

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8 minutes ago, Twilight Man said:

From last week's thread:

Remember Longmire??

That show also had these stupid commercials (that would come on immediately at the start of the commercial break so at first you thought the show was continuing)

I also remember Revenge having these commercials in which the "secondary" characters were getting ready to go to a party hosted by Nolan.

Of course, we can hardly say that this is anything "new".  TV actors and actresses have been plugging cars during their shows for quite a while now.

That isn't what bothers me.  What bothers me is that Barbara has been relegated to a secondary character in the first place.   I don't need her to be the star of the show but she has been on the show since the pilot and I just think she deserves better.

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Bold prediction for the future:

Jim Gordon is appointed Police Commissioner when he comes up with the revolutionary idea of posting an armed guard station with an armored door blocking entrance to the main building at the front of the GCPD, saving the lives of hundreds of red shirts from random psychopaths just walking in the front door and killing everyone.

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4 minutes ago, Blackcanary said:

I think you disliked this one almost as much as I did...

Yeah, I hate reviewing installments like this one. I hate giving the haters of the show more ammo, but that doesn't mean I can allow myself to be dishonest about the show's failings.

Please, show, give Bruce and Selina back to us... :(

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On 5/23/2017 at 0:51 AM, Richness said:

I jumped for joy when Alfred knifed Ms Owl Queen's hand. Dude! I loved Lee when she was first introduced, but they've completely ruined that character for me. Shut up and die already! Sorry, but I also couldn't see passed Barne's costume and eye shadow. What's up with the hand blade glove thingy? I don't know if he's suppose to be a particular villain from the comics or not, but nothing is working here. 

There is a Villian called The Excutioner in Batman Comics. 

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Well, I guess it's been too long since The GCPD gets its ass handed to it by some random nutcase.  Again, I really don't understand why anyone would ever join the force.  It never ends well, unless your names in Gordon or Bullock.

So, basically, Lee now blames herself for Mario's death (but still blames Jim as well!), so she decides to punish herself by.... taking Tetch's blood and making herself go all crazy as well.  That was a hell of a head-turner.  I have no idea what in the hell is going through her head, but she might have finally out-crazed Barbara.  Seriously, even at her most nuttiest, there was a bizarre logic to Barbara's motivations and feelings.  Lee's just completely off her rocker now.  This could be very good or very bad.

Hell has no fury then a vengeful butler, I see.  Alfred just stabbing Katherine in the hand was insane!  And I love how Jim and Bullock's reaction was less "Holy shit!" and more "Oh, come on, Alfred!", like that was a minor inconvenience.  Gotham's crazy, y'all!

Bruce finally gives into Shaman Arlo/Arlo Al'Ghul, and locks away all of his emotions, including his parents deaths.

Oswald and Edward already break out, and now both are gunning after one another with their respected armies.

Bullock had a lot of great lines and reaction shots in this one.

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12 hours ago, Kathemy said:

Yeah, I hate reviewing installments like this one. I hate giving the haters of the show more ammo, but that doesn't mean I can allow myself to be dishonest about the show's failings.

Please, show, give Bruce and Selina back to us... :(

This Bruce storyline has been such a crushing disappointment. I was really excited when it started, but now I find myself groaning every time we cut to him.

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21 hours ago, Kathemy said:

Yeah, I hate reviewing installments like this one. I hate giving the haters of the show more ammo, but that doesn't mean I can allow myself to be dishonest about the show's failings.

Please, show, give Bruce and Selina back to us... :(

I don't think the show failed with this episode. I enjoyed it.

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On 5/22/2017 at 9:05 PM, Chaos Theory said:

Ed and Ozwald acted like two people who just broke up and were still very bitter about it.

Isn't that who they are?

On 5/22/2017 at 10:16 PM, Lantern7 said:

And I'm hoping Bruce is snowballing the shaman.

I believe he is.

On 5/22/2017 at 10:46 PM, Allie56 said:

Jim: Barnes just murdered tons of cops

This one time, it was knock-out gas.

On 5/24/2017 at 8:46 PM, Twilight Man said:

Of course, we can hardly say that this is anything "new".  TV actors and actresses have been plugging cars during their shows for quite a while now.

On the radio shows of the 30s and 40s, ads were part of the show and the actors would be part of the hawking.

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No, Bruce isn't snowballing the Shaman. From all the comments by David and others, this is a legit case of brainwashing.

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How many times has Bruce been hit with the magical memory acupuncture needle? No way he can be faking...The Court may want to review its HR policies given that so many members are betraying them...[Gordon family, Ras Ar-Lo...]

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On 2017-05-22 at 9:15 PM, Spartan Girl said:

Now can Lee just die?!

If it wasn't for her miserable, whiny, self righteous, bitch-twit ass...

Yesssss!

Thank you so so much!

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This episode was a bit of a letdown after the last one.  It was frustrating watching Bruce do exactly what that old man wanted him to do.  It was disappointing Alfred didn't notice himself that Bruce wasn't Bruce.  All the Executioner stuff just felt like violent filler.  

I cannot think of any reason why Lee would think she should inject herself with the virus, other than plot.  The actress did a great job as the main evil villainness in "V", so I'm sure she can do a great job as a psycho creep, but that isn't Lee.  

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"My boy is still alive!" I am such a sucker for the parental substitute's declaration that that's their kid. I love Alfred. He's a badass. I also really liked that his speech to Selina about what a good and loyal friend Bruce has been to her was just the reverse of the speech he gave Bruce last season (I think? This binge watch is out of control) about not putting Selina in danger after all she'd done for him. Sean Pertwee is now my favorite Alfred ever. 

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