S04.E22: Mr. Kaplan: Conclusion

[calipiano81]

4 hours ago, saber5055 said:

 

For those of you who hate this show, why are you watching? It's one thing to discuss a show's faults and inconsistencies amongst fans, but when it's all bashing, it sucks the fun out of it for people who actually still enjoy the show.

4 hours ago, saber5055 said:

 

Edited May 20, 2017 by calipiano81

[calipiano81]

4 hours ago, saber5055 said:

I 

Delete

Edited May 20, 2017 by calipiano81

[calipiano81]

15 hours ago, VinceW said:

The new 'bones in the suitcase' plot portends that the writers are headed there at this point. Watching this finale reminded me somewhat of the Castle series and how the writers did not have a plan to resolve the original premise of the series that Richard Castle became a writer because of something that happened to him as a child in the woods. The original show runner quit the series early and the cleanup season was a mess. IMO.

If the Imposter Theory proves true, I think it would have been a plan in place from the beginning. In the pilot, Red did say to Liz, "Everything about me is a lie." And while the daddy stuff back and forth is annoying, the Imposter Theory facilitates the show to play with it.

Edited May 20, 2017 by calipiano81

[Double V]

re: Imposter Red Clue?

There was an episode a while back (maybe season 2?) when Red is talking with some shady guy poolside and Red casually mentions that he can't swim, and the shady guy calls foul and says "but you were in the Navy, weren't you?" and Red changes the subject.

The Imposter Red had a slight screw up there.

[VinceW]

48 minutes ago, calipiano81 said:

If the Imposter Theory proves true, I think it would have been a plan in place from the beginning. In the pilot, Red did say to Liz, "Everything about me is a lie." And while the daddy stuff back and forth is annoying, the Imposter Theory facilitates the show to play with it.

When Red told Liz about what happened at the house during the shooting, he told her that he was there at the time. So, did Liz kill her real father?   Why then, did he kidnap Masha to take her to US and how did Katarina find them at the house? Did the impostor kill the 'bones-in-suitcase' mother? How does Dembe know about the suitcase unless he knows about the ruse with the Feds? The Impostor theory just ruins the credibility of the entire FBI task group story line. I just don't see that as a viable twist to the series. IMO

Edited May 20, 2017 by VinceW

[calipiano81]

1 hour ago, VinceW said:

When Red told Liz about what happened at the house during the shooting, he told her that he was there at the time. So, did Liz kill her real father?   Why then, did he kidnap Masha to take her to US and how did Katarina find them at the house? Did the impostor kill the 'bones-in-suitcase' mother? How does Dembe know about the suitcase unless he knows about the ruse with the Feds? The Impostor theory just ruins the credibility of the entire FBI task group story line. I just don't see that as a viable twist to the series. IMO

Yes, according to Red, and if we accept that Red does not speak lies to Liz, she killed her real (bio) father the night of the fire. The how, why, and the rest of the story we are waiting to play out. 

As an impostor, Red would be trying to convince the entire world (criminal and otherwise) that he is Raymond Reddington, not just the FBI. Why would that ruin the credibility of the FBI in particular?

Perhaps, to take the theory even further, our Red was working a deep, deep undercover operation for the U.S. government. It went south at one point and Red ended up stuck in his cover. That would explain the statement younger Red said to younger Kaplan in "Requiem," about how he needed to build a power criminal empire that the world already believed he had.

1 hour ago, Double V said:

re: Imposter Red Clue?

There was an episode a while back (maybe season 2?) when Red is talking with some shady guy poolside and Red casually mentions that he can't swim, and the shady guy calls foul and says "but you were in the Navy, weren't you?" and Red changes the subject.

The Imposter Red had a slight screw up there.

Yes! That is a very good example.

[ottoDbusdriver]

16 hours ago, saber5055 said:

Drusilla, you made me laugh. Thanks for the MVP vote, I needed that after waiting two hours Monday night for Kaplan to kill Red. I hope he stays broke (Lizzie's word) and someone, anyone, kills him to vindicate Kate. It would be cool if Masha shoots him after Tom reveals the bones in the suitcase are hers!

I've got it -- Lizzie is the Russian replacement, right down to the scar on her right hand.

ETA: Lizzie's embryo was created in a lab from multiple parents and implanted into Katarina Rostova to bring to term.  That's why her DNA seems to match everyone.
 

Edited May 21, 2017 by ottoDbusdriver

[saber5055]

You guys are making my head explode with replacement theories, but they make sense after Redemption spent so much time on showing us how they work. Katrina stopped short of saying who Masha shot when she brought her to Kate. Lizzie seems to remember she shot her father, but her memory has been played with. I'm hoping that Mr. Kaplan is only partly dead, that would restore my faith in this show's writers. Did we know Red was that military big shot hero Cooper told us about this week? I did think it odd Red said he had to save Lizzie from Tom when he was the one who hired Tom to "marry" her in the first place. Even though they didn't recognize each other outside of the hospital after Red killed adoptive dad. And yeah, what's up with the scar on Lizzie's hand, the one that matches Tom's go box lid? I guess I agree with Forumfish: "We don't need no stinkin' continuity guys!"

[paigow]

Which idiot goes through the trouble of replicating someone, learning their history, speech patterns, tics...but cannot learn to swim???? Does the android titanium combat chassis prevent flotation?

[saber5055]

Maybe Russian high schools don't teach swimming or have summer parks swim programs like there are in America so yeah, Red can't swim. I do like the theory that Lizzie is a combo of DNA, making everyone her father. Which reminds me: Where is Alexander Kirk these days? My theory is that Lizzie's real dad is the only Red "friend" he hasn't murdered yet ... GLENN!

[Dowel Jones]

Well, if notRed has been the guy this whole time, he sure has had one helluva time spending realRed's money all these years.

[Just my 2 cents]

18 hours ago, Double V said:

re: Imposter Red Clue?

There was an episode a while back (maybe season 2?) when Red is talking with some shady guy poolside and Red casually mentions that he can't swim, and the shady guy calls foul and says "but you were in the Navy, weren't you?" and Red changes the subject.

The Imposter Red had a slight screw up there.

If I remember correctly because it was several years back and I don't remember the episode, Red can swim.  He said he was a lifeguard at a summer pool when he was a teenager.  Some woman almost drowned and he had to give her mouth to mouth resuscitation and she belched up tuna salad or she belched up something.  Then he told the man "Uhhh, never went into the water again!"  The guy with a perplexed and confused face quietly said, "But you were in the Na............... and his sentence trailed off.  That was Red's slight tell.  As Red usually does he continued to talk and deflect away from what he initially said throwing the man off.  One of the first things they do during Naval training, this is what I was told by a female friend of mine that joined several months after high school graduation years ago, is throw you in the water.  They want to know how you measure your fear of drowning and if you can figure a way to bring yourself to the top and float.  He's had several little incidences where he's mentioned something and it doesn't seem to fit.  He's also had several incidences where no one recognizes him initially.  Raymond Reddington was the top graduate at Annapolis and was on his way to becoming the youngest admiral in history when he disappeared one night and resurfaced 2 years later.  People believe he's had some plastic surgeries, although if you have them to remain undetected you wouldn't be going by your old name.  No one knows if it is due to some accident or for some other reason.  Oddly, for a man that was so well-regarded and became a legendary international criminal people from his past don't immediately recognize him.  The show has also made an episode and a few references to who's the real Reddington, because over the years their have been several impostors.  I suppose that could be a clue.

[paigow]

Red is like James Bond / Dr. Who???? Recast every few years??? Interesting theory that some criminals could be in fan denial..."Emilio Estevez is the one true Red"....

[VinceW]

On 5/20/2017 at 6:38 PM, calipiano81 said:

As an impostor, Red would be trying to convince the entire world (criminal and otherwise) that he is Raymond Reddington, not just the FBI. Why would that ruin the credibility of the FBI in particular?

If he is an impostor, FBI team members could be considered guilty of conspiracy to commit murder after the fact on each count. Otherwise, the writers would not have spent so much time showing both sides working to invalidate/validate the immunity agreement.

Edited May 21, 2017 by VinceW

[saber5055]

Wasn't there some dinner party some episodes/years back, where "Red" invited all his criminal compatriots, except Spader/Red wasn't invited, so he crashed the party. My memory says he killed everyone there, but that might be a memory colored by the fact that Red usually kills everyone, most after they suffer through one of his tedious soliloquies.

[Drusilla]

On 20/5/2017 at 9:21 PM, saber5055 said:

Drusilla, you made me laugh. Thanks for the MVP vote, I needed that after waiting two hours Monday night for Kaplan to kill Red. I hope he stays broke (Lizzie's word) and someone, anyone, kills him to vindicate Kate. It would be cool if Masha shoots him after Tom reveals the bones in the suitcase are hers!

Mah pleasure Saber5055!

It would be cool if this whole thing just died a sorry death in episode 1 of season 5!

[Lunula]

I just...I don't know where to even begin.

Honestly, Mr Kaplan was pretty much the only compelling part of the show this year and getting her back story, albeit with some dubious history rewrites, was the only thing keeping me interested. For the life of me, I do not see how the writers can dig themselves out this. 

Cons: 

• Mr Kaplan, the best & most interesting character on the show, is gone.
• Red is officially Elizabeth's father. Who cares at this point? Who ever thought differently? What are the chances they'll try and "trick us" again next season with a new daddy?
• Every single person on the team is completely irredeemable. How federal officers, sworn to uphold the laws of this country, could so utterly turn their backs on anything resembling good sense, honesty, integrity or the law for Raymond Reddington, is just unfathomable to me. The ends justify the means? No, not when it comes to a mass murderer, con man, thief and lying asshole.  
• Who the hell is taking care of Agnes?
• What am I missing with the bones in the suitcase? If they are Katarina, how does it prove anything other than she's dead? I guess more compelling would be that they are bones of the "real Reddington" - but even that doesn't interest me. Who cares if this is a "different Reddington" - the whole point of the show was hunting down Blacklisters and FauxRed was doing that just fine. Other than the implications of not really being Liz's daddy (UGH) - why would it even matter?

Pros:

• Tom working for Kaplan.
• Lizzie's hair. 

Edited May 22, 2017 by Lunula

[saber5055]

Great post, Lunula, and I heartily agree with everything you wrote. Real Red, fake Red, who cares, the man is still horrible and irredeemable. The only thing I do not agree with is your second, and last, pro: Lizzie's hair. Hate it! I want to send the girl a scrunchie. Tom working for Kaplan, though, is the only thing that will bring me back next season. I'd watch a whole new show about Kaplan's life and adventures. IMO, she's one of the best tv characters ever. RIP Kate.

[Biggie B]

I, too, must disagree about Liz's hair - it looked horrendous. Greasy, flat, unkempt. Really bad. Run a brush through it once, please!

As for Agnes, Liz did actually mention in the prior episode that Agnes had a nanny. We haven't seen him/her but at least there was actually confirmation of a nanny!!

As for the rest of Lunula's post - agree!! I totally don't get whose bones those are in the suitcase. And as pointed out, if they're Katerina's bones, so what? She's dead, she's been dead for a while. If it's the true Reddington, well...whatever...I find the whole real/fake Reddingtion theory hard to follow, so I'm not really paying it much mind unless or until it is substantiated (and the way this show goes, that will likely never happen).

I want to think that Kate's not dead. She may be gone but...hey, she's dodged death at least once, why not this time as well? Her character was fascinating - truly and utterly compelling. The actress has done a stellar job with that role, so kudos to her for making Mr. Kaplan so riveting.

Edited May 22, 2017 by Biggie B

[saber5055]

Stewed, Redemption doesn't really have much to do with Blacklist. I'd watch Blacklist straight through, then Redemption. In BL you will meet Tom's mom/not-mom, Scottie, and the disgusting Solomon, both of whom continue on with Tom in Redemption. And Biggie, this week someone (Cooper?) said that Agnes was in a safe house. You know, the one Lizzie was heading to when she left her door unlocked and Red's henchman kidnapped her. Not sure who is taking care of Agnes at the house, though, now that Babysitter Boz is out of action. (And I was hoping Kate had rigged up a dummy to float in the water after she dove in ... and swam away underwater like movie characters always do ...)

Oh, Stewed: In Redemption you'll learn about the soviet person-switching scheme that has been discussed here.

[Biggie B]

I do recall the scene in which Lizzie was taken away by Red's folks, and I'm quite sure she said that both the nanny and Agnes were at the safe house. It really jumped out at me for that very reason - she actually mentioned a nanny! I commented to that effect in the other thread pertaining to Part I, that we finally knew Agnes had someone watching her, which was a good thing, what with Liz and Tom running all over the country and facing death every day.

[Lunula]

3 hours ago, saber5055 said:

The only thing I do not agree with is your second, and last, pro: Lizzie's hair. Hate it! I want to send the girl a scrunchie. 

Hah! I hated, with the passion of a thousand suns, what they did to her hair around the time she was pregnant, when it was just straight around her face. SO unflattering and awful. But I like the soft waves she has now, and they've somehow made her hair look silky, too - not hard & scrunchy like so many with beachy waves. I find myself looking at her hair and wondering how I can accomplish the same and getting annoyed & distracted by the dialogue.

Pretty much exactly how I feel when I watch Blindspot. I freakin' love Jane's hair...

[Princess Lucky]

3 hours ago, Biggie B said:

As for the rest of Lunula's post - agree!! I totally don't get whose bones those are in the suitcase. And as pointed out, if they're Katerina's bones, so what? She's dead, she's been dead for a while. If it's the true Reddington, well...whatever...I find the whole real/fake Reddingtion theory hard to follow, so I'm not really paying it much mind unless or until it is substantiated (and the way this show goes, that will likely never happen).

I'm not entirely sure, but I think Katarina killed herself? By drowning? Which would (I assume) not be evident if one were to examine her bones? So, if those are her bones, maybe they prove that Red killed her some other way? Blunt force trauma to the head? If, say, her skull was caved in? Then again, how would Red be implicated, just from a bag of bones? That would only prove Katarina was murdered. Wait, I guess Liz would automatically suspect him?  Because he's Red? Either way, that's still a weak reveal. "Oh no, Red (a known murderer) killed Liz's mother! Who saw that coming?" Like, so what? The writers seem to think we care about this more than we actually do. To me, that's just another way to have Liz tell Red "we are OVER!" until she inevitably hugs him again and calls him Papa.

On the other hand, if the bones belong to the real Red (i.e. Liz's actual biological father, which a DNA match would confirm), at least it explains why "Red" is so terrified of Liz finding them.

[Just my 2 cents]

I just had a stupid thought.  When Red went to Dom's to dig up the box.  He told him that Masha was actually alive.  He obviously hadn't gotten around to going back and letting the poor old man know his granddaughter was alive.  I'm assuming he doesn't have a television or radio since it was announced on the news that she was given a presidential pardon, unless he doesn't know she's going by Elizabeth Keen.  He told Dom that Kaplan never knew he existed for safety reasons. He also told Dom that if anything happened to him he was to find Masha and explain everything to her.  How would Dom know if anything happened to Red and how is he going to find Masha.  He didn't even know she was alive until Red came for the box.    If it's dire that Masha not know what happened now, why is it important for her to know after Red is dead.  Since she didn't know she had a grandfather why would she trust or believe him and how long is Red expecting grandpa Dom to live and have the energy to go searching for his granddaughter?

[VinceW]

9 hours ago, ally said:

I just had a stupid thought.  When Red went to Dom's to dig up the box.  He told him that Masha was actually alive.  He obviously hadn't gotten around to going back and letting the poor old man know his granddaughter was alive.  I'm assuming he doesn't have a television or radio since it was announced on the news that she was given a presidential pardon, unless he doesn't know she's going by Elizabeth Keen.  He told Dom that Kaplan never knew he existed for safety reasons. He also told Dom that if anything happened to him he was to find Masha and explain everything to her.  How would Dom know if anything happened to Red and how is he going to find Masha.  He didn't even know she was alive until Red came for the box.    If it's dire that Masha not know what happened now, why is it important for her to know after Red is dead.  Since she didn't know she had a grandfather why would she trust or believe him and how long is Red expecting grandpa Dom to live and have the energy to go searching for his granddaughter?

+100. Most viewers have good memories and they can think logically through conflicting events when they realize continuity has been somewhat lost.

Edited May 23, 2017 by VinceW

[Biggie B]

OMG, this show is going to drive us all to drink, if it hasn't already. We were shown Katerina walking herself into the ocean to drown, which would indeed not jive with her body/bones being available to dig up...unless SOMEHOW SOMEONE fetched her body from the sea? If that's even how she died??? And now the excellent point made by ally about elderly Dom? For crying out loud. The writers' right hands need to meet their left hands.

[saber5055]

Speaking of Dom, all these seasons in, did we even know there WAS a Dom? He's more secluded than was Kate's Leon Rippy. Do I assume he was Katarina's dad? Or Red's dad? Or Lizzie's dad? Or Agnes's dad? Okay, I'm stretching that last one, but I wouldn't put it past this show's writers, all of whom seem to have written scripts "under the influence." And Biggie, I'm all up for a drinking party. Maybe then things will make more sense. But then again ... probably not.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

5 hours ago, Lunula said:

Red is officially Elizabeth's father. Who cares at this point? Who ever thought differently?

I don't know if I care, but I don't think he's her father.  On a show like this, if someone goes and compares DNA from a 30 year-old bloody shirt and considers the results to be conclusive, it all but guarantees to me that there will be a twist.

 

1 hour ago, Lunula said:

Hah! I hated, with the passion of a thousand suns, what they did to her hair around the time she was pregnant, when it was just straight around her face. SO unflattering and awful. But I like the soft waves she has now, and they've somehow made her hair look silky, too - not hard & scrunchy like so many with beachy waves.

Her hair looks crimped to me. Braid your wet straight hair, and then sleep in it.  Unbraid in morning and brush gently.  You could also try a crimping iron.

[Princess Lucky]

29 minutes ago, stewedsquash said:

Thank you for the answer and updates!  And to the part I bolded, Yay! because I absolutely love Solomon for some reason. There is just something about the actor and how he portrays the character that has made me want more of him from the very beginning.  The Solomon and Tom actors could completely win me over with a Sonny/Crocket, Starsky/Hutch or any kind of buddy type show if they ever move on to something else. Good guys or bad guys, they just click for me.

Then you're really gonna love Redemption! They had a lot of fun moments together on that show.

1 hour ago, Biggie B said:

And now the excellent point made by ally about elderly Dom? For crying out loud. The writers' right hands need to meet their left hands.

Right? Red goes to a man (let's say) 30 years his senior and says "if anything ever happens to me, do X"? What the hell?

Edited May 22, 2017 by Princess Lucky

[calipiano81]

1 hour ago, saber5055 said:

Speaking of Dom, all these seasons in, did we even know there WAS a Dom? He's more secluded than was Kate's Leon Rippy. Do I assume he was Katarina's dad? Or Red's dad? Or Lizzie's dad? Or Agnes's dad? Okay, I'm stretching that last one, but I wouldn't put it past this show's writers, all of whom seem to have written scripts "under the influence." And Biggie, I'm all up for a drinking party. Maybe then things will make more sense. But then again ... probably not.

We were introduced to Dom in one of the episodes after Liz "died" in Season 3. He is Katarina's father.

[ottoDbusdriver]

2 hours ago, calipiano81 said:

We were introduced to Dom in one of the episodes after Liz "died" in Season 3. He is Katarina's father.

Or is he ?  Maybe he's been switched as well.  Dun, dun, dun, dun.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Lunula said:

 

• Every single person on the team is completely irredeemable. How federal officers, sworn to uphold the laws of this country, could so utterly turn their backs on anything resembling good sense, honesty, integrity or the law for Raymond Reddington, is just unfathomable to me. The ends justify the means? No, not when it comes to a mass murderer, con man, thief and lying asshole.  
•  

I don't see this as unfathomable.  We have made deals with Iran, Iraq, the Taliban, the Russians, and the Contras. 

[No 2 in our Hearts]

The task force has stopped extinction level events using the Red's intel. Anyone that Red has killed is a drop in the bucket compared to the lives that have been saved.

[calipiano81]

54 minutes ago, No 2 in our Hearts said:

The task force has stopped extinction level events using the Red's intel. Anyone that Red has killed is a drop in the bucket compared to the lives that have been saved.

I agree. Red has killed a lot of people, but they were all guilty of one thing or another, which makes it a lot easier to turn a blind eye. Kaplan might have been the first "innocent" Red tried to kill (and Red even admitted it was wrong of him to do so), which is why we got the divide among fans for the first time into Team Red and Team Kaplan.

Edited May 23, 2017 by calipiano81

[Princess Lucky]

10 hours ago, No 2 in our Hearts said:

The task force has stopped extinction level events using the Red's intel. Anyone that Red has killed is a drop in the bucket compared to the lives that have been saved.

I agree, but it's one thing to tolerate Red for the greater good, and it's another to be proud to be working with him. He's a murderer. I don't think any person who has taken an oath to uphold the law would ever be "proud" of that. Aram is a sap, so maybe that's understandable, but it still annoys me. Glossing over murder, for any reason? These are supposed to be the good guys? And here I thought Hawaii Five-0 was bad, with the way it tramples all over the US constitution.

As always, when someone props up Red, I don't know if it's the writers telling us what to think, or just the characters, being flawed. Just because I can enjoy Red as a viewer (even when I disagree with him, just because Spader is amazing), it doesn't mean that I will accept law enforcement officials actively enjoying their time with him. That makes no sense. Ressler was the only one who ever had a normal reaction to Red (and Cooper, I guess), but now he's mixed in his own criminal activity, so he lost the moral high ground. In many ways, Red (and Tom, actually) are "better" because they're criminals, and it's their job to do these things. But the FBI agents? There's no excuse.

[TheGreenWave]

On ‎5‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 5:28 PM, VinceW said:

When Red told Liz about what happened at the house during the shooting, he told her that he was there at the time. So, did Liz kill her real father?   Why then, did he kidnap Masha to take her to US and how did Katarina find them at the house? Did the impostor kill the 'bones-in-suitcase' mother? How does Dembe know about the suitcase unless he knows about the ruse with the Feds? The Impostor theory just ruins the credibility of the entire FBI task group story line. I just don't see that as a viable twist to the series. IMO

Agree - there are just too many questions to resolve and I'm bored.  Completely agree to your last point - if Red is an imposter because the real Red was murdered and replaced...well, what good did that do (I thought the original imposters story from BL:R was to do some sort of defined task?) for the entire purpose of the series and the taskforce?  I know storylines often twist and move off an original premise, but this would be just too much.

[Lunula]

16 hours ago, Swim mom said:

I don't see this as unfathomable.  We have made deals with Iran, Iraq, the Taliban, the Russians, and the Contras. 

However, a nation's government (the US) making deals with entire governments, or entities within those governments, is very different than individual FBI agents within a team striking a deal with one individual (I can sorta buy that) and then systematically allowing said individual to break a mountain of laws within their own country - including murder. Mass murder. I don't have any fairy-tale ideas that FBI agents, police officers, etc. are saintly and only stand for justice and good, but the situation on the show is pretty ridiculous.

I can only ask myself, "Would I be okay with letting a master criminal who murders, lies, cheats, steals and causes general mayhem in my country get away with those crimes because he was leading me to other criminals?" Taking it a step further, if I were on the team tasked to work with that criminal, could I turn a blind eye to his crimes? Could I participate in those crimes? Holy hell - no way. 

Edited May 23, 2017 by Lunula

[TigerLynx]

I'm not sure what the original premise was for Red, or if the writers knew, remember or care, but dragging out the is Red Lizzie's father SL for years was a bad idea.  Whatever the answer is, and I never cared either way, at this point, it still doesn't explain anything.

I'm baffled as to how they could have such a great backstory for Mr. Kaplan, and yet totally drop the ball on everything else.

With Hitchins dead/disappeared does that mean Gale's investigation is still shut down?  It's hard to blackmail a corpse.

[12catcrazy]

Well I finally got around to watching the 2 hour finale last night and have to say that the badass Mr.. Kaplan arc was one of the best things this show ever did.  So, now, Mr. Kaplan is presumably dead and we're back to..... Red is (or maybe isn't!), Lizzy's father.  Rolling my eyes here.  

So here we have FBI agent Elizabeth Keene who is supposed to be "all that" and you'd think from the get-go of Red coming into her life, she would've really wanted to know WHY.  Most people would have done that DNA test with blood from the pen she stabbed him with, in what, the 2nd or 3rd episode?  Not our Liz!  Ah, but she got DNA from a glass, sent it off, and then couldn't bring herself to find out the truth - IS HE OR ISN'T HE???   So I guess no surprise that when Liz had the chance to hear the truth out of Mr. Kaplan's mouth, she got out of the truck.   Way to go Liz!

Now we've got her thinking Red is her Daddy from the blood off of a 30 year old shirt from an evidence box.  Oh, clever TV show - no real proof the blood is from "our" Red (unlike, say, using the blood from the pen stabbing).  And now a suitcase full of bones intended for Liz.  But her beloved husband Tom has the bones, and want to bet that when he sees Liz so crazy about Daddy Red, those bones are gonna go missing....   Dem bones, dem bones...  (my bet they are the REAL Red Reddington and Lizzy's bio Dad, but is that too easy?).  

[saber5055]

Supposedly, Red turned himself into the FBI so he could "protect" Lizzie, for whatever reason. But how has he accomplished that? All the blacklisters he's turned into the team have been so he could benefit from their demise in some way or another. He's used them every week for his own gain. I don't see where Lizzie needs any protecting ... and protecting from whom or what? I'm with TigerLynx, I don't care about the daddy-issue story line. And yeah, Mr. Kaplan was such a great character, well written with a super back story. That must have been a totally different writing team to create those episodes. I also agree with Lunula: Hell no, I don't condone any of Red's multiple murders. If Red's murders are okay because the dead people are criminals, why bother to catch serial killers who murder homeless or drug addicts or hookers since those people contribute nothing to society. Now that Kaplan is gone, I'm on Team Agent Gale all the way.

[Ottis]

Ridiculous. Ressler accidentally kills Hitchens? What would make her think she had any more leverage over Ressler? Kaplan jumps off a bridge, after all that? And Red is Lizzie's dad? She finally asked a good question.. "what was the point" of coming back to her life, giving up what he had and lying to her? And then she hugs him because he is family?

At least we have the suitcase. And Tom!

Edited May 24, 2017 by Ottis

[TheGreenWave]

14 hours ago, Ottis said:

And then she hugs him because he is family?

This evoked a monumental eye roll from me.  I guess she does not take the Luke Skywalker/Empire Strikes Back view on "dads who are bad."

[paigow]

On 5/22/2017 at 5:11 PM, stewedsquash said:

 The Solomon and Tom actors could completely win me over with a Sonny/Crocket, Starsky/Hutch or any kind of buddy type show .

FYI. Sonny / Crockett is the same guy. The Miami Vice team is Crockett & Tubbs. AKA Sonny & Ricardo / Rico; Burnett & Cooper

[Chaos Theory]

This show has never been especially gritty or well written but it has been fun and on occasion there have been storylines I have genuinely liked.  I really enjoyed Liz gets framed/goes on the run dual storylines.  I also really like the Mr Kaplan storyline.  As a matter of fact I have always liked the Mr. Kaplan character.  

My big problem with the show is something that show has actually dabbled with but seems to be outright ignoring.  Red has gone too far way too often.  I don't care that the entire premise is a bunch of FBI agents work with a criminal mastermind to catch other criminals.  My problem is that they turn a blind eye as h murders and kidnaps people right in front of them.   I've been one of the people who have always like Liz Keen and thinks she makes a good pair for Red but honestly this last season or since the birth of her kid she has made zero sense.   Which is a function problem for the show.

[Ottis]

On 5/20/2017 at 2:50 PM, calipiano81 said:

For those of you who hate this show, why are you watching? It's one thing to discuss a show's faults and inconsistencies amongst fans, but when it's all bashing, it sucks the fun out of it for people who actually still enjoy the show.

For me, it's because I love Spader and I like much of the foundation of this show. I've never liked Lizzie, nor how the actress portrays her, and have often posted the show would be fine without her character. That's especially true now, after whatever that was about Red being her dad. It's never mattered, and still doesn't, and only served as a plot device to bring Reddington in to work with the FBI. He can do that without Lizzie. Hell, kill her off and do it in her memory. The show suffers from not having a larger arc that means anything. Save the cheerleader, save the world? Got it. Who's my real dad? Whatever.

On 5/22/2017 at 8:48 PM, calipiano81 said:

I agree. Red has killed a lot of people, but they were all guilty of one thing or another, which makes it a lot easier to turn a blind eye.

Plus it's TV. I don't mind the bodies in the ice. I'm more bothered by innocent security guards and others who are collateral damage. 

Edited May 25, 2017 by Ottis

[saber5055]

As for why I watch BL, I've been here since its first episode. Lizzie, meh, I don't care, but I've always enjoyed Red, Tom, Dembe, Ressler. Look back at old posts when so many of us wished for a spinoff show featuring those guys (and no Lizzie). But, IMO, Red has made himself 100-percent hateful the last couple of episodes, killing anyone who was standing near him. I now DO hate him and Dembe, who is all in with whatever Red does. I saw Spader on a talk show last week and now can't even stand him, he didn't stray from Red having the same mannerisms as Spader. So, now I don't care for one of my formerly favorite actors. I've quit many shows I had been with since S1 E1 once they go a direction I don't like or don't care about. I'll turn into BL next season to see what's up with Tom and if anyone, including Red, gets "Redemption." (Or if Mr. Kaplan isn't really dead, that would rock.) But if not, then I will be out. As for expressing our opinions on this thread, that's what it's here for, whether our opinions match anyone else's or not. Of course, as always, YMMV.

[skermac]

On ‎5‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 11:14 PM, paigow said:

Ressler is so dumb....call the cleaner that does not really clean...

Cooper: I just spent $2000 of my own money on a private paternity test. Open that envelope or I will kill your dumb ass....

New Blacklister #479: The Baggage Handler

Ressler is the dumbest FBI agent Ive seen in any show or movie.

[Just my 2 cents]

Quote

1 hour ago, skermac said:

Ressler is the dumbest FBI agent Ive seen in any show or movie.

 

He's not the brightest bulb in the box, but I assume you never had the misfortune of watching Fox's The Following.  The entire FBI was dumb.

[ottoDbusdriver]

On 5/25/2017 at 0:26 PM, saber5055 said:

As for why I watch BL, I've been here since its first episode. Lizzie, meh, I don't care, but I've always enjoyed Red, Tom, Dembe, Ressler. Look back at old posts when so many of us wished for a spinoff show featuring those guys (and no Lizzie). But, IMO, Red has made himself 100-percent hateful the last couple of episodes, killing anyone who was standing near him. I now DO hate him and Dembe, who is all in with whatever Red does. I saw Spader on a talk show last week and now can't even stand him, he didn't stray from Red having the same mannerisms as Spader. So, now I don't care for one of my formerly favorite actors. I've quit many shows I had been with since S1 E1 once they go a direction I don't like or don't care about. I'll turn into BL next season to see what's up with Tom and if anyone, including Red, gets "Redemption." (Or if Mr. Kaplan isn't really dead, that would rock.) But if not, then I will be out. As for expressing our opinions on this thread, that's what it's here for, whether our opinions match anyone else's or not. Of course, as always, YMMV.

Well said @saber5055 -- plus some of us are pot-committed (to borrow a poker phrase) and will hang in to the very end because we've stuck with it so long hoping it will get better, and if anything just to see if we ever get answers to some long lingering, unexplained questions.  And to see if the dogs ever make an appearance again -- or if the dogs, much like Richie's brother Chuck on 'Happy Days', have walked upstairs never to be seen or mentioned ever again.  :)

Edited May 27, 2017 by ottoDbusdriver

[saber5055]

Thanks Otto. I might add that another reason to watch BL is because I enjoy the witty and insightful posts here and in other threads, whether we agree or not. Big Bro Chuck Cunningham indeed. Maybe he is Agnes's babysitter/dog walker in that safe house. How cool would THAT be?