S04.E22: Mr. Kaplan: Conclusion

[MostlyC]

Season Finale!

Red sets a dangerous plan in motion to save himself and the Task Force as Kaplan engages in the final phase of her assault on his criminal empire; Liz confronts the biggest questions about her past.

 

...like where her dog is?

[TigerLynx]

It's official.  Mr. Kaplan is a badass, and Liz is to stupid to live.

They call that answers?  How lame.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

How does Cooper know with complete certainty that the blood was Red's?

For someone facing a potential indictment, Liz seemed awfully unconcerned about Agnes. Her having a baby just makes the suspension of disbelief with regard to her actions that much more difficult.

So Tom has Katrina's bones, and Brian Dennehy has the answers?

Still wondering about Red's daughter with his ex-wife, about whom he seems to have forgotten. I guess they never bonded.

Before Ressler managed to unintentionally avenge Reven Wright, what was Laurel Hitchens handing him? And had Ressler actually surrendered the bullet at some point?

[paigow]

Ressler is so dumb....call the cleaner that does not really clean...

Cooper: I just spent $2000 of my own money on a private paternity test. Open that envelope or I will kill your dumb ass....

New Blacklister #479: The Baggage Handler

[Chaos Theory]

Honestly I don't know.

There were some things I did like.  I liked Ressler and Hitchens.  I even liked most of the grand jury stuff.  Mr. Kaplan as an enemy was interesting.  However the usual stuff was magnified a bit.  For example Liz and her pathological blindness when it comes to Red.  Normally it doesn't bother me like it does some but here she almost  literally gave Red a license to kill and it didn't even bother her.

Sad to see Mr Kaplan go.  And no Kate Liz doesn't want the truth.  She can't handle the truth.

Not surprised that Red is actually her father.  Wonder what it's gonna do to all the Red/Liz fanfic?  

Well Deputy Dog has his own cleaner now.

Edited May 19, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[paigow]

Ressler was suspended / disavowed.... She was returning his ID...

[Valmarmar]

I'll miss you, Mr. Kaplan !   

[Just my 2 cents]

I liked the show, but I will be really pissed off in the end if they played us.  Liz tested a scotch glass with his recent DNA two weeks after she met him.  Cooper goes and cuts a swatch from a shirt that's 30 years old and yep it's a match.  However, due to some plastic surgeries and some work he's had done over the years no one from his past immediately recognizes him.  After being touted as the next best thing and possibly the youngest Navy man to become Admiral and turning into and infamous international criminal no one from his past immediately recognizes him.  Naomi was married to him and she didn't know.  I will be so angry if they did this reveal only to find out in the final episode that it was an impostor that had a personal stake in Liz's safety.

[Brian Cronin]

Man, Kaplan sure was an amazing adversary.

Edited May 19, 2017 by Brian Cronin

[Mysteyman]

Am I the only one who thinks Hitchens might not be dead?

Her own fixer was the one who took care of the body without Ressler in the room.

[paigow]

3 hours ago, Mysteyman said:

Am I the only one who thinks Hitchens might not be dead?

Then Ressler deserves to die....moron cannot determine if someone is dead...

[Princess Lucky]

7 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

For someone facing a potential indictment, Liz seemed awfully unconcerned about Agnes. Her having a baby just makes the suspension of disbelief with regard to her actions that much more difficult.

Still wondering about Red's daughter with his ex-wife, about whom he seems to have forgotten. I guess they never bonded.

Right? Why bother introducing babies or children when they are irrelevant and always ignored?

Anyway, always trust this show to botch the big reveals. They "revealed" Red is her father (obviously) but the DNA sample they tested was old. No way to know if it matches the current Red (who, and I say this as a viewer of The Blacklist: Redemption, a far better show) could very well be an imposter. A Russian (obviously) sent to replace the real Red, who may or may not be dead. As if it would be difficult for them to get Red's DNA? If Liz could do it, anyone can.

I would have preferred an 100% conclusive reveal, with the bonus reveal of the suitcase. The show probably has one season left. Answer the paternity question conclusively, and then we can focus on the reason why Red was so adamant that Liz not find out the truth. What did Red do (i.e. who do those bones belong to?) that made him so scared of Liz learning he's her father? That's a perfectly acceptable continuation of their story, and it's also perfectly logical. Red had so many opportunities to come clean, but he never did, so he must have had a reason.

As it is now, maybe the bones belong to Red. And our "Red" is not Red. And who cares?

At any rate, the accuracy of the paternity reveal itself is irrelevant now, because Liz believes it, and sees Red as her father. This is the only Red she's ever known (or the only one she remembers) and she sees him as her father. The end. The only potential reveal to trump that would be the Redemption-inspired replicant theory.

Now that I said Redemption, I loved how they brought Tom back into the fold. He really adds something to this show.

As did Mr. Kaplan. I'm holding out hope, both for her and Hitchens, because this show is dumb, but if this was the end, at least she went out on her own terms.

I only have one wish for the next season. Bring back Julian Gale.

[paigow]

How can Red not know about a classified document library, yet Kaplan knows its location and security weakness????? 

[ottoDbusdriver]

This is the endgame -- Mr. Kaplan is out to help the Justice Dept. to go after Cooper in exchange for immunity ?  Seriously, WTF ?

But first, she needs a day to get her affairs in order, and to conduct some shenanigans to fuck with Reddington.

Henry Prescott -- how is he not the Blacklister of the episode ?

Are we supposed to know who former football player J. J. Brickman is ?  Other than a connection to this Prescott guy. Because that is some weak shit.

And now we are back to calling items by vague terms -- "the document", "the package" -- can the Fulcrum 2.0 be far behind ?  And how come Mr. Prescott doesn't have a neat and nifty nickanme like "The Wizard" -- because he makes your problems disappear.

Meanwhile, we get more court testimony by Aram in front of the Grand Jury looking into Reddington and going after Cooper.  That's just what this show was missing.  FFS !  And Aram remains defiant and gets arrested for obstruction.  And is that true, if the Grand Jury offers you immunity you have to accept it whether you want to or not.

And Ressler finally gets closure on Reven Wright -- inside a drum full of embalming fluid courtesy of Mr. Prescott.  At least it will stop Ressler from whining about her.

Samar gets all bitchy with Aram's girlfriend -- enough with this bullshit already, Aram just pick a side and make sure it is not Samar.  But no, he still thinks he can protect Samar.  SMH.

Really, Mr. Kaplan has limited time to clean up her affairs before testifying so she takes the bus to an old apple farm to find a 'K' shaped carving on a tree that she uses as a marker dig up -- Katarina Rostova.  Oh come on.

Cooper snagged that bloody piece of clothing in order to test it to determine if Red is Lizzie's father -- finally !! -- but who's kidding who we will never get the answer.

NSA Hitchen kills the Grand Jury courtesy of coersion by Red -- so all of the Grand Jury tension was for nothing.  That was an effective waste of time -- well done show.

Seriously, this scene between Lizzie and Mr. Kaplan is just dragging to a halt an already painfully slow show.  Red's men, including Boz, managed to capture Mr. Kaplan, and after Lizzie gets out of the car Mr. Kaplan whips out a hand cannon and shoots Boz.  Seriously, this gun is fucking huge.  So, is Boz dead ?  Because we never see him again.

Somehow the FBI and Red/Dembe trap Kaplan on a bridge, but that that was part of Kaplan's plan all along to commit suicide and release the contents of the package from Tanzi Farms.

Ressler struggles with Hitchens and Ressler hits her and accidentally kills her -- but I'm sure Ressler will be just fine -- since he calls Mr. Prescott to clean up the body for him.

Lizzie pining for her former nanny is just painful to watch.  Even more painful than watching Lizzie get her Maury Povich results (You are the father !!).

Finally, we get discussion of Lizzie's hand scar -- but still no idea where it came from, or why the box under her floor in Season 1 had the same marking -- and DNA evidence that Red is Lizzie's father.  Finally !!!!  But they've fixed DNA evidence before so I wouldn't put too much stock in thses results.  Remember, she had DNA evidence that Alexander Kirk was her father too, and that turned out to be bullshit.  So, I'm not buying this whole "we are family" nonsense with Red and Lizzie, and based on Red's conversation with Dembe it probably isn't true.  Hell, it's getting to the point I'm not even sure that Katarina Rostova is her mother.

Really ?  Mr. Kaplan arranged to give Tom the key to the locker with the suitcase that contains the bones of Katarina Rostova.  So, who is Tom working for now ? Because it ain't Scottie.  Maybe the S5 bid bad will be Glen (seiously, I got nothing).

No mention of Agnes during the entire episode (or the previous episode) -- I guess guess Dom doesn't know he has a great-granddaughter -- and most certainly no mention of the dogs.

ETA:  Because Boz was spelled wrong.

Edited May 20, 2017 by ottoDbusdriver

[paigow]

How long has Dom been in the US? Nobody that was looking for Katerina used him for leverage? Assuming that Red killed her but pretended she was still alive would still make Dom a target for kidnapping...

[Just my 2 cents]

1 hour ago, paigow said:

How long has Dom been in the US? Nobody that was looking for Katerina used him for leverage? Assuming that Red killed her but pretended she was still alive would still make Dom a target for kidnapping...

I also see he's chosen to live off the grid so no tv or radio to let him know that "Masha" aka Elizabeth Keen has been granted a presidential pardon.  Oh and is he even aware she assassinated the AG of the U.S.  He does know he has a great granddaughter thank goodness.  I love Brian Denehy but I know he ain't getting any younger.  It would be nice if Masha would get a chance to meet him sooner rather than later.  Tom finally showed up and sadly I didn't care.  I haven't missed him or Agnes.  I guess this will be how they segue Ryan Eggold back into TBL.  If they wrote in the pregnancy so that Agnes would connect Liz and Tom giving them a reason to keep him on the show it was a waste of writing.

[TigerLynx]

What these last few episodes have confirmed for me is Mr. Kaplan was the brains of the organization, and way more interesting than the characters that are left.

[misstwpherecool]

11 hours ago, ally said:

I liked the show, but I will be really pissed off in the end if they played us.  Liz tested a scotch glass with his recent DNA two weeks after she met him.  Cooper goes and cuts a swatch from a shirt that's 30 years old and yep it's a match.  However, due to some plastic surgeries and some work he's had done over the years no one from his past immediately recognizes him.  After being touted as the next best thing and possibly the youngest Navy man to become Admiral and turning into and infamous international criminal no one from his past immediately recognizes him.  Naomi was married to him and she didn't know.  I will be so angry if they did this reveal only to find out in the final episode that it was an impostor that had a personal stake in Liz's safety.

On BlackList Redemption one of the first epis was about a KGB camp that surgically altered and trained substitutes. I think they said it was there for decades. My theory is Red was substituted. Didn't Cooper say Red was captured and had to be rescued 10 days later. Plenty of time to finalize the substitution.  That might explain his criminal behavior and aging differently than expected.

[milkyaqua]

That will be the biggest rolling my eyes thing if it turns out the Red is in fact not Liz's father.  Some old DNA?  Liz got results from actual DNA she had and ran but didn't open them?  That woman is stuck on stupid.

So is Ressler.  Like the cleaner won't figure out you're an FBI agent and somehow use that against you?  Why the heck not just call Harold and take your chances?  Idiot.

Aram and Samar...I guess so...

I will miss Mr. Kaplan.

I wasn't completely annoyed seeing Tom so there was that.  I hope they don't spend all of next season focusing on the bones.

Always nice to see Brian Dennehy and was I the only one to scream, "Tripp!", when Mr. Kaplan's hired thief appeared?

For answers about what might next season will look like, I posted an interview with EP Jon Bokemkamp in the spoilers thread.

Edited May 19, 2017 by milkyaqua

[TigerLynx]

Whether or not Red is Lizzie's father or the real Red was replaced, doesn't answer any questions for me.  Red supposedly built a criminal empire to protect/save Lizzie.  He killed Sam, sent Tom to watch over Liz, and then was angry/worried when Tom married her, and shot/tried to kill Mr. Kaplan for helping Liz fake her death, all supposedly because Liz has to be protected/saved, and these people were putting Liz in danger.  Red supposedly turned himself in, and offered up all the people on the blacklist because he thought it would protect/save Liz.  How?  At the end, it seemed Red was agreeing with Mr. Kaplan that he shouldn't have tried to kill her, and he had put Liz in more danger by working with the task force.  Again, how, why, what, when, where?  All of these questions, and others won't be answered on the next episode of Soap.

[slowpoked]

One of the worst season finales I've ever seen. So Red is completely bankrupt, but still gets his way every single time. The task force has now completely bought into the "the end justify the means" concept, AND because they needed to save their own asses too. Worst was Ressler, who was torn between giving Reven Wright the justice she deserves or saving his own ass. Yeah, some boy scout you are. Go ahead, give more facial expressions as if the decision hurts some more. You should just admit that you sold your soul to the devil and own it. Enough of this baloney internal struggle between right and wrong. It doesn't make you any better or noble than Samar who have completely bought into it. And Aram has completely bought into the bullshit too - "We've done great things with Reddington!!!" I'm done with all these people - by the halfway mark of the second episode, I was hoping they would all go down and Mr. Kaplan gets the evil laugh in the end. No characters worth redeeming left.

It would have been more interesting if Mr. Kaplan won this round, and either got the document to the pertinent people, or got to testify in front of the grand jury. It would be interesting to see the show take on how everything falls apart once the huge secret is out. Who else will get subpoenaed? Indicted? How far up in the government does this go. But no, Red always has to get his way. And even if that is a much more interesting storyline, the writers would most probably botch that one too.

[misstwpherecool]

At first I thought they were trying to address the continuing criminal behavior of a criminal informant or the enabling blind eye of the task force. But now I'm not quite sure what the last half season/Kaplan was supposed(will be missed-but contingencies...) to do except be a twisty as they could.  All the dead bodies and Liz's betrayal of Kaplan were a disappointment

I'm wondering if Ressler's tussle and 'clean-up' is the end and that's why agent Gayle was introduced. An ironic twist trying to show how Red got started in the criminal business?

Edited May 20, 2017 by misstwpherecool
correct name

[paigow]

Red rebuilds his empire in the new spinoff - Blacklist: Coupon Redemption 

[gaileygirl]

But what about Boz? Is Boz okay?

As for the rest, eh. I am sorry to see Kaplan go. And I hope they integrate Tom back onto the canvas rather than have him home watching Agnes all the time..

[mandigirl]

This episode was extremely anti-climatic for me. I was interested to know if Red was Liz's father... in Season ONE. Four seasons and 1 spin-off later, the reveal (whether true or not) landed with a thud. Given that Liz, Cooper and really the entire task force had multiple opportunities to find out this information (didn't the task force have samples of Red's blood when he got poisoned, like a month ago??), the fact that they trot this out as some big reveal in the finale was laughable. 

1 hour ago, TigerLynx said:

Red supposedly built a criminal empire to protect/save Lizzie.

 I'm right there with TigerLyn. I was hoping that the finale reveal would be why Red became a criminal, then turned himself into the FBI.   As other posters have pointed out, Red has another daughter! I guess because her mother isn't a Russian spy, she didn't merit building a criminal enterprise for. 

1 hour ago, gaileygirl said:

But what about Boz? Is Boz okay?

They showed Boz with an injury to his arm, but apparently ok. 

15 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Sad to see Mr Kaplan go.  And no Kate Liz doesn't want the truth.

This was the most disappointing moment of the show, no doubt. Liz walking out on Kaplan was the lowest point for the Liz character in the entire series, IMO. Remember last season when Liz was acting-out like a tween and mewling that she wanted Red out of her life? Now remember how Kaplan literally risked her life to make that a reality? Liz knew that the second she walked out of the truck, it was over for Kaplan. So her (feigned?) concern about Kaplan later on just seemed bizarre. The only thing worse than Kaplan gone, is that she gave her life to help someone who totally didn't deserve it. 

[Just my 2 cents]

I'm too lazy to quote on my lunch break, but here are some of my thoughts.  I think deep down in her psyche Liz does know exactly what happened, but she's blocking it out.  I think that's why she keeps choosing Red over looking for the real truth even when it's offered to her by Kaplan.  Katerina seemed to have the ability to make people fall in love with her and fight for her.  I believe she was a ruthless sociopath, who would have loved to turn Masha into another her, but would have sacrificed her to save herself.  Maybe that's the really bad secret and why she was killed.  Now we have to watch the entire final season to find out whose bones those are and why they are so important.  Sorry, the winter half of the season.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

10 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

So, is Box dead ?  Because we never see him again.

 

2 hours ago, gaileygirl said:

But what about Boz? Is Boz okay?

 

1 hour ago, mandigirl said:

They showed Boz with an injury to his arm, but apparently ok. 

According to Jon Bokenkamp, Baz is dead: http://ew.com/tv/2017/05/18/blacklist-red-liz-father-finale-spoilers/?xid=entertainment-weekly_socialflow_twitter

"Baz was killed, Mr. Kaplan is gone."  Unlike some people,  Kate knows what she is doing.

Funny way to say it, because it could be interpreted that Mr. Kaplan is not dead, just gone, but that's not what he says further in the interview.

Red is not Liz' father.  Dembe said something about Red allowing her to believe it after she told Red that she knew he was her father.  The blood on that shirt is not from the Red we have now. Perhaps when Masha killed her father, Red took over his identity to protect Katarina. I assume that the bones belong to Katarina, but they could belong to Liz's father, which Katarina and Red buried.  Not sure why that would devastate Liz, though, so probably Katarina's bones.

Haven't the show runners also told us that Red hasn't lied to Liz? He's certainly denied being her father in the past.

[VinceW]

4 hours ago, mandigirl said:

This episode was extremely anti-climatic for me. I was interested to know if Red was Liz's father... in Season ONE. Four seasons and 1 spin-off later, the reveal (whether true or not) landed with a thud. Given that Liz, Cooper and really the entire task force had multiple opportunities to find out this information (didn't the task force have samples of Red's blood when he got poisoned, like a month ago??), the fact that they trot this out as some big reveal in the finale was laughable..........................This was the most disappointing moment of the show, no doubt. Liz walking out on Kaplan was the lowest point for the Liz character in the entire series, IMO. Remember last season when Liz was acting-out like a tween and mewling that she wanted Red out of her life? Now remember how Kaplan literally risked her life to make that a reality? Liz knew that the second she walked out of the truck, it was over for Kaplan. So her (feigned?) concern about Kaplan later on just seemed bizarre. The only thing worse than Kaplan gone, is that she gave her life to help someone who totally didn't deserve it. 

The episode was a big letdown after finally getting the backstory on Mr Kaplan in 4x17 "Requiem".  I thought viewers might get a reconciliation. Red tried to console at the bridge, but that effort was too late. Instead, a jump off the bridge without any further explanation about why the need to keep Liz safe. You have to wonder if the writers really have any idea yet how to end this story or we have a Red impostor all along..

Edited May 20, 2017 by VinceW

[calipiano81]

This finale further cements my belief in the Red Imposter Theory (the theory that Raymond Reddington is Liz's father, but our Red is not the real RR) that is circulating in the BL fandom. 

IMO, it makes perfect sense from the show's perspective. It appeases both the yes-father and no-father camps. They are also able to maintain the "Red does not lie to Liz" principle while still giving themselves leeway for different story angles.

-When Liz confronts Red at the end with the DNA test you'll notice that Red stays silent almost the entire time. If Red is an imposter, to confirm would be lying, but to deny would require him to do a lot of explaining. 

-Cooper ordered a DNA test using a blood sample from 30 years ago. Meanwhile, the DNA test results Liz ordered two weeks after meeting Red were conveniently thrown away.

-The bones in the suitcase that Tom picked up could belong to Katarina (although Red told Liz that Katarina walked in to the ocean and was never seen again), but they could also belong to the corpse of the real Raymond Reddington.

However, even without the Imposter Theory, I am still firmly in the no-father camp. Red flat out said "No" when Liz directly asked him in Season 1 and he has repeatedly said that Liz shot and killed her father when she was a little girl (a memory which he even tried to have erased).

ETA: I wanted to get my thoughts out before reading the other comments. Sorry for the repeats!

Edited May 19, 2017 by calipiano81

[ItCouldBeWorse]

4 minutes ago, calipiano81 said:

This finale further cements my belief in the Red Imposter Theory (the theory that Raymond Reddington is Liz's father, but our Red is not the real RR) that is circulating in the BL fandom. 

IMO, it makes perfect sense from the show's perspective. It appeases both the yes-father and no-father camps. They are also able to maintain the "Red does not lie to Liz" principle while still giving themselves leeway for different story angles.

-When Liz confronts Red at the end with the DNA test you'll notice that Red stays silent almost the entire time. If Red is an imposter, to confirm would be lying, but to deny would require him to do a lot of explaining. 

-Cooper ordered a DNA test using a blood sample from 30 years ago. Meanwhile, the DNA test results Liz ordered two weeks after meeting Red were conveniently thrown away.

-The bones in the suitcase that Tom picked up could belong to Katarina (although Red told Liz that Katarina walked in to the ocean and was never seen again), but they could also belong to the corpse of the real Raymond Reddington.

However, even without the Imposter Theory, I am still firmly in the no-father camp. Red flat out said "No" when Liz directly asked him in Season 1 and he has repeatedly said that Liz shot and killed her father when she was a little girl (a memory which he even tried to have erased).

I agree with all of this. Cooper suddenly, "definitively" providing DNA results after all this time makes me think that the results are the opposite. Whether the bones are male or female should be settled quickly, I hope. I'm still wondering what Red told Kirk.  Perhaps that he killed the original Red?  Not sure why Kirk would care.

[calipiano81]

Other thoughts:

-Was it really necessary to remove that guy's eye for the biometric scanner? Couldn't they have just forced him to open the door for them?

-I kind of figured Kaplan would have to kill herself. It was the only way to have her die but not put the blame on Red.

-I agree that "Why is Liz so important?" would be much more interesting than running the dad tease over and over.

[Brian Cronin]

6 minutes ago, calipiano81 said:

Couldn't they have just forced him to open the door for them?

I imagine he's so dedicated to his job that he wouldn't go through with it. 

I can't believe Baz is dead. That's such horseshit. 

[Just my 2 cents]

31 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I agree with all of this. Cooper suddenly, "definitively" providing DNA results after all this time makes me think that the results are the opposite. Whether the bones are male or female should be settled quickly, I hope. I'm still wondering what Red told Kirk.  Perhaps that he killed the original Red?  Not sure why Kirk would care.

Maybe "Not the Real Reddington" is a fellow spy/agent or comrade and he explained the dire situation to Alexander Kirk?  I noticed Red and Dom seem to know each other well, during the breakfast scene.  He did tell him in the final episode he never liked him and he wished he could get away from him like Masha tried.  Maybe he's Katarina's handler or Real Reddington's.  Who is this super secret Russian spy that was on to Raymond Reddington and had him tortured?  Did he and Katarina betray this spy and that's why Liz is in danger or maybe he's fake Reddington and feels the need to protect a child that never should have been born to a couple of spies? 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

2 minutes ago, ally said:

Maybe "Not the Real Reddington" is a fellow spy/agent or comrade and he explained the dire situation to Alexander Kirk?  I noticed Red and Dom seem to know each other well, during the breakfast scene.  He did tell him in the final episode he never liked him and he wished he could get away from him like Masha tried.  Maybe he's Katarina's handler or Real Reddington's.  Who is this super secret Russian spy that was on to Raymond Reddington and had him tortured?  Did he and Katarina betray this spy and that's why Liz is in danger or maybe he's fake Reddington and feels the need to protect a child that never should have been born to a couple of spies? 

For some reason, though, Red has never given me the impression that he could actually speak or understand Russian.  I know that doesn't prove or disprove anything, but he doesn't even pronounce "Masha" like a native speaker when he is talking to Dom.

Edited May 19, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Just my 2 cents]

Sorry for being technologically challenged I just wanted to do a reply without quoting.  I've noticed that too.  Of course the writer's could think they're clever and have purposely done this since he seems to know other languages. 

If he's a Russian doppleganger it might explain why he likes and trusts Tom's father so much. 

So I'm wondering if Katerina was playing both sides and Red's an American handler or if he's the real Reddington's handler.  I cannot figure how he plays into the Russian family dynamics.  Whatever it is does it play into Dom living in America now is he persona non grata in Russia?  It's not like he's here to be near his granddaughter that has no idea he exist.  Maybe in the end Katerina screwed the Russians putting everybody's lives in danger and that's why Dom is off the grid and Masha needs protection.  

This is annoying and exhausting.  I'm now remembering why I stopped watching Lost.

[milkyaqua]

57 minutes ago, calipiano81 said:

Other thoughts:

-Was it really necessary to remove that guy's eye for the biometric scanner? Couldn't they have just forced him to open the door for them?

-I kind of figured Kaplan would have to kill herself. It was the only way to have her die but not put the blame on Red.

-I agree that "Why is Liz so important?" would be much more interesting than running the dad tease over and over.

On another blog someone said they don't buy that the eye scan would have worked with an eye that wasn't attached.

Yes, the "why is Liz important" thing would be interesting because this show has done nothing to make the character interesting in the least.  Especially why she has these people so devoted to her.  It is mind boggling and I don't trust Bokenkamp to not keep screwing it up.  Anyone looking for any legit answers is going to continue to be disappointed.

Although I give credit to the diehards.  I've seen at least a few people on different blogs tick off all sorts of inconsistencies and retcons (I think one listed almost two dozen of them) and while I appreciate the dedication, I can't work up that kind of interest in it.

[paigow]

43 minutes ago, milkyaqua said:

On another blog someone said they don't buy that the eye scan would have worked with an eye that wasn't attached.

 

It worked in The Avengers for Loki and temporarily evil Hawkeye....

[milkyaqua]

I know but this person was going for logic...

[nurse1]

23 hours ago, Valmarmar said:

I'll miss you, Mr. Kaplan !   

ditto!...She was such a awesome, badass...don't know if I keep watching now, I kept yelling @ liz, especially when she got out of Mr. Kaplan's car and then on the bridge her concern about Reddington killing Mr. Kaplan! (then why did you get out of the car, dumbass!!)

[mandigirl]

5 hours ago, calipiano81 said:

IMO, it makes perfect sense from the show's perspective. It appeases both the yes-father and no-father camps. They are also able to maintain the "Red does not lie to Liz" principle while still giving themselves leeway for different story angles.

-When Liz confronts Red at the end with the DNA test you'll notice that Red stays silent almost the entire time. If Red is an imposter, to confirm would be lying, but to deny would require him to do a lot of explaining. 

Interesting theory for sure. But if they want to, they'll be able to get around the 'Red doesn't lie to Liz' and still have Red be her father:

-- This whole time, we've assumed that Red actually knew who Liz's father was. Maybe he didn't know. Kirk spent his whole life convinced that Masha was his daughter. If Katarina was sleeping with Red, she probably had other lovers as well. Red truly might have thought some one else was Liz's father-- either from assumption or from Katarina lying to him.  

Red might have hoped that Liz was his daughter, just never confirmed one way or the other.

-- He could also have been speaking metaphorically. Like "Red" (in his current state) isn't her father.  The man he used to he was her father. 

All I know is that I will be extremely annoyed if there's some 'Red imposter' reveal next season.  It's just a ridiculous plot-twist IMO. I might be able to buy identity theft, but spy body double? Also, not everyone who watches Blacklist watched BL:Redemption so the whole Russian 'body double' thing would come out of nowhere. 

[VinceW]

16 hours ago, mandigirl said:

All I know is that I will be extremely annoyed if there's some 'Red impostor' reveal next season.  It's just a ridiculous plot-twist IMO. I might be able to buy identity theft, but spy body double? Also, not everyone who watches Blacklist watched BL:Redemption so the whole Russian 'body double' thing would come out of nowhere. 

The new 'bones in the suitcase' plot portends that the writers are headed there at this point. Watching this finale reminded me somewhat of the Castle series and how the writers did not have a plan to resolve the original premise of the series that Richard Castle became a writer because of something that happened to him as a child in the woods. The original show runner quit the series early and the cleanup season was a mess. IMO.

Edited May 20, 2017 by VinceW

[Brian Cronin]

I think I would have paid at least $50 cold hard cash if, when Ressler was telling his story about how he realized that Laurel Hitchin was the killer, if Red or someone else had said, "Oh, you mean like in L.A. Confidential!" "Huh?" "Your story. That's exactly how Ed Exley realized that Dudley Smith was the killer in L.A. Confidential." 

[ottoDbusdriver]

6 hours ago, iheartET said:

3) I am SO sick of this on and off game of Is Red Liz’s father?  From the beginning it has always seemed that way, but now I am not too sure.

It's like one of the writers was watching the Maury Povich show one day when they were coming up with the show and thought "how can we drag this baby daddy DNA determination nonsense out over 4 or 5 TV seasons, and get the least talented actress available to play the person of interest ?"

No one cares anymore.  I know I certainly don't.

[paigow]

Blacklister #367: Rollo Tomassi

Red is actually Ethan Hunt...wait for the peeling......

3 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

It's like one of the writers was watching the Maury Povich show one day when they were coming up with the show and thought "how can we drag this baby daddy DNA determination nonsense out over 4 or 5 TV seasons, and get the least talented actress available to play the person of interest ?"

No one cares anymore.  I know I certainly don't.

They could have picked an actual "Maury mother" and ended up with a better show....

[misstwpherecool]

16 hours ago, ally said:

Maybe "Not the Real Reddington" is a fellow spy/agent or comrade and he explained the dire situation to Alexander Kirk?  I noticed Red and Dom seem to know each other well, during the breakfast scene.  He did tell him in the final episode he never liked him and he wished he could get away from him like Masha tried.  Maybe he's Katarina's handler or Real Reddington's.  Who is this super secret Russian spy that was on to Raymond Reddington and had him tortured?  Did he and Katarina betray this spy and that's why Liz is in danger or maybe he's fake Reddington and feels the need to protect a child that never should have been born to a couple of spies? 

 

16 hours ago, ally said:

 

After it was revealed that Liz came from a Russian spy I was thinking Red was like  Kevin Costner in the movie No Way Out who was a Russian mole sent to the Naval Academy to get the resume to get him deeply planted in the US government.  For what ever reason he went rogue on the KGB. But then the camp on BL Redemption fits a little better especially with all the who is daddy issues. A plant wouldn't pass the dna test. Also the grandfather is part of a large group of KGB plants from early Cold War days?

Also in the Kaplan backstory epi they kept talking about the affair Katerina was having with the American-OR fellow agent?

[saber5055]

I thought I couldn’t hate Red anymore after last week, then guess what, now I REALLY hate him. This is Spader’s show and he’s made his own character completely despicable with no redeeming qualities. Agent Gale dug up 85-plus bodies, yet Red has added at least 10 if not more just in the past couple of weeks. He was dropping bodies everywhere, including in front of that crack FBI team, and no one seems to care. Do those cleaner kids we saw many episodes ago get a text to come pick up the carcasses? Then he killed my boyfriend Aldis Hodges just for the fun of it. I hate Red, and hope he dies ... after being tortured for a few months. And his “mission” to protect Lizzie, who is such a dumbass she’s not worth protecting. None of it makes sense to me.

RIP Mr. Kaplan, the best character ever on any teevee show. If Ressler had killed Laurel Hichin a little sooner, Kaplan’s plan could still be in play. Heck, I don’t even remember who Reven Wright was. Plus with everyone tossing that bullet in a bag around, that evidence was so tampered with, how could it ever stand up in court. Oh yeah ... because Cooper’s FBI team is a bunch of lying liars who lie to save their own asses.

When Dembe and Red got the drop on Gale in his car and Red asked Gale when was the last time they saw each other, I was dying for Gale to say, “Why, I saw you just last week, when I pulled that shot over your head at that cabin in the woods.”

Aram and Samar kissing made me want to vomit. I hate Aram now, too, the little pansy pants. “Wah wah, I can’t live for 10 minutes in jail ... ” Geesh. And Red is the greatest thing to ever happen to you. Right ... just wait until he doesn’t need you any more, you’ll get to meet his cleaner, whoever that is now. Aram is a little bitch, so I guess it’s okay he’s with a big bitch instead of the hottie girlfriend.

The whole DNA thing was so stupid, this after so many years of not caring? And was Cooper wearing glove when he cut that shirt? If not, maybe he is Lizzie’s father since he breaks almost as many laws for her as Red.

Then Lizzie crying about is she a criminal because Red is her father? Of course you are, deary, you killed the AG in cold blood, and don’t forget that policeman you shot and maybe killed while you were on the run ... AS A CRIMINAL.

The only redeeming thing about this show that I now hate is Tom working for Mr. Kaplan. I hope the bones are of the real Reddington. Give them to Gale so he can put Spader’s Red in prison and take down Cooper’s task force, including Lizzie. They can all share a cell as far as I’m concerned. Or maybe the bones are the real Masha, and Lizzie is the fake one all along. Surprise!

Wow, I'm really cranky today.

[ottoDbusdriver]

I love the fact that Ressler was brainwashed to kill Hitchin, doesn't succeed (but we never find out if he was really completely de-programmed) but then ends up killing Hitchin accidentally.  Honestly, that fall didn't even look that bad to be fatal -- Ressler backhanded her, Hitchin turned her ankle and fell down (thankfully she wasn't going commando that day) but she didn't hit her head on the countertop or a chair on her way down, so I was surprised when the pool of blood appeared under her head.  Did her head land on an upturned golf tee ?

Did anyone else notice that Hitchin's body (and white carpet below it) was moved from when Ressler killed her to when Prescott showed up ?
When Hitchin went down hard, her head was clearly shown to be on the white carpet beyond the end of the kitchen island, but when Prescott showed up she was beside the kitchen island.  Also, Hitchin knocked over 2 chairs on her way down, but when Prescott showed up only one chair was knocked over.  I guess the continuity guys had already checked out for the season, and were letting the interns finish up the finale for them.

At least now Resseler is on equal footing with both Lizzie (the AG) and Red (Diane Fowler) in killing a senior government official -- welcome to the big leagues Donny Boy !!

And then there is the irony about his outrage over Reven Wright's murder that was covered up by a 'cleaner', and now he's doing the exact same thing with Hitichin.

Edited May 20, 2017 by ottoDbusdriver

[Drusilla]

21 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

 

 

 

Red is not Liz' father.  Dembe said something about Red allowing her to believe it after she told Red that she knew he was her father.  The blood on that shirt is not from the Red we have now. Perhaps when Masha killed her father, Red took over his identity to protect Katarina. I assume that the bones belong to Katarina, but they could belong to Liz's father, which Katarina and Red buried.  Not sure why that would devastate Liz, though, so probably Katarina's bones.

Haven't the show runners also told us that Red hasn't lied to Liz? He's certainly denied being her father in the past.

Problem is, the writers never seem to remember what they said in previous episodes....

2 hours ago, saber5055 said:

I thought I couldn’t hate Red anymore after last week, then guess what, now I REALLY hate him. This is Spader’s show and he’s made his own character completely despicable with no redeeming qualities. Agent Gale dug up 85-plus bodies, yet Red has added at least 10 if not more just in the past couple of weeks. He was dropping bodies everywhere, including in front of that crack FBI team, and no one seems to care. Do those cleaner kids we saw many episodes ago get a text to come pick up the carcasses? Then he killed my boyfriend Aldis Hodges just for the fun of it. I hate Red, and hope he dies ... after being tortured for a few months. And his “mission” to protect Lizzie, who is such a dumbass she’s not worth protecting. None of it makes sense to me.

RIP Mr. Kaplan, the best character ever on any teevee show. If Ressler had killed Laurel Hichin a little sooner, Kaplan’s plan could still be in play. Heck, I don’t even remember who Reven Wright was. Plus with everyone tossing that bullet in a bag around, that evidence was so tampered with, how could it ever stand up in court. Oh yeah ... because Cooper’s FBI team is a bunch of lying liars who lie to save their own asses.

When Dembe and Red got the drop on Gale in his car and Red asked Gale when was the last time they saw each other, I was dying for Gale to say, “Why, I saw you just last week, when I pulled that shot over your head at that cabin in the woods.”

Aram and Samar kissing made me want to vomit. I hate Aram now, too, the little pansy pants. “Wah wah, I can’t live for 10 minutes in jail ... ” Geesh. And Red is the greatest thing to ever happen to you. Right ... just wait until he doesn’t need you any more, you’ll get to meet his cleaner, whoever that is now. Aram is a little bitch, so I guess it’s okay he’s with a big bitch instead of the hottie girlfriend.

The whole DNA thing was so stupid, this after so many years of not caring? And was Cooper wearing glove when he cut that shirt? If not, maybe he is Lizzie’s father since he breaks almost as many laws for her as Red.

Then Lizzie crying about is she a criminal because Red is her father? Of course you are, deary, you killed the AG in cold blood, and don’t forget that policeman you shot and maybe killed while you were on the run ... AS A CRIMINAL.

The only redeeming thing about this show that I now hate is Tom working for Mr. Kaplan. I hope the bones are of the real Reddington. Give them to Gale so he can put Spader’s Red in prison and take down Cooper’s task force, including Lizzie. They can all share a cell as far as I’m concerned. Or maybe the bones are the real Masha, and Lizzie is the fake one all along. Surprise!

Wow, I'm really cranky today.

You are the MVP in this thread actually!

[Just my 2 cents]

Quote

1 hour ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

At least now Resseler is on equal footing with both Lizzie (the AG) and Red (Diane Fowler) in killing a senior government official -- welcome to the big leagues Donny Boy ! !

 

And now I can "ship" team Keenler!  Now Ressler's as bad and as f*cked up as Red, Tom, & Liz.  He's graduated to being an immoral killer.  This is how this shipping crap works isn't it?  By the way when did this shipping stuff start on procedural and crime shows?  I must be getting old.  I remember back in the day although it didn't have a name, shipping was reserved for daytime and nighttime soaps like The Young and the Restless and Dynasty.

[saber5055]

Drusilla, you made me laugh. Thanks for the MVP vote, I needed that after waiting two hours Monday night for Kaplan to kill Red. I hope he stays broke (Lizzie's word) and someone, anyone, kills him to vindicate Kate. It would be cool if Masha shoots him after Tom reveals the bones in the suitcase are hers!