S02.E03: Mingling Its Own Nature With It

[jaybear1701]

 

I tend to think that Delphine does, ultimately, have Cosima's best interests in mind, but I still wouldn't exactly trust her, particularly where the other clones are concerned.

 

Agreed - though she did try to speak out against the Dyad's persecution of Sarah in 2x01 before Leekie shut her down. But then again, she only helped Sarah at the Dyad party when Sarah implicated Cosima's safety. So yeah, Cosima is wise to keep her out of the Clone Club.

 

As for this episode, I really enjoyed the fact that she isn't coddling Cosima about her illness. She seems respectful of Cosima's feelings, and yet she isn't afraid to prod Cosima into action ("If you can't handle it..."). I also liked her "Dr. Cormier" side during the autopsy - calm, serious, clinical, detached, down to business. On one hand, she can be viewed as trying to be strong for Cosima, who obviously is struggling with her inner turmoil. But on the flip side, it must be jarring for Cosima, even as a scientist, to see how easily Delphine can compartmentalize her feelings and so easily conduct the autopsy and examine the "experiment."

[whyjen8]

If they go there, the follow-up should be Helena going Lorena Bobbitt on him.

 

Let it happen in a club so we can get a sequel to the tail dance.

[CleoCaesar]

I was a tiny bit bored this episode, a first. I really liked Cal (Paul who?!), so that wasn't a problem. Alison's musical made me laugh out loud each time.

 

I did however start to roll my eyes whenever Helena was on-screen. She is by far the most cartoonish of the characters to me and it just makes her less compelling to watch. I've mentally cast Shakira as Helena to help my brain cope with the fact that TM is playing all of the clones, so hearing Angie refer to Shakira made me smile.

 

Felix and Sarah's fight was heartbreaking - he clearly saw himself as the major male figure in Kira's life and Sarah did seem to toss that aside pretty quickly in favor of Kira's babydaddy.

 

I guess my problem with this episode was that it felt too fragmented, like it was divided into neat sections (Big Love Ranch, deranged suburban musical, nerdy lesbian autopsy hour, and Sarah on the run [always and forever]). Clone Club actually has to interact, not be off in separate storylines. 

[LittleIggy]

It was really creepy/insensitive to have Cosima dissect a corpse that had her face. I kept thinking, "At least cover the dead girl's face." I'm sick of Helena, but since she is still around I too want her to go bat shit crazy on the cult guy.

[millahnna]

 

ETA: Paul vs. Cal? Let's all get along because there is more than enough room for eye candy on this show! Can't we keep them both?

 

Here, here.  Besides I still have this huge soft spot for Paul from the latter half of last season.  Dylan Bruce did a lot of nifty stuff in the background of scenes he was not even remotely the focus of (in particular the way he physically reacts to Sarah's presence when she rescues him from that club).  The way he repeatedly leaned into her while she was chatting with Tailless McGee made me a little swoony.

 

He kind of reminds me of Jason Mamoa in that way; perhaps not the strongest actor when he's the actual focus of dialogue and action but does some great active listening stuff hen he's in the background. 

 

Although now I'm totally torn on who I'm shipping with Sarah; I've liked her with both.  I'm not generally an active shipper of the "this couple is my OTP (blegh what an obnoxious phrase)" kind of way but Paul and Sarah hooked me quite a bit last year. 

[jaybear1701]

I guess my problem with this episode was that it felt too fragmented, like it was divided into neat sections (Big Love Ranch, deranged suburban musical, nerdy lesbian autopsy hour, and Sarah on the run [always and forever]). Clone Club actually has to interact, not be off in separate storylines.

This season has kind of reminded me of Season 4 of BtVS, in which all the characters initially are splintered and not really getting anywhere as a result. I have a feeling we'll see the Clone Club slowly come back together as the season progresses. Based on the promo summaries, we might even start to see that as soon as the next episode. Here's hoping!

[bravelittletoaster]

This season has kind of reminded me of Season 4 of BtVS, in which all the characters initially are splintered and not really getting anywhere as a result. I have a feeling we'll see the Clone Club slowly come back together as the season progresses.

 

Yeah, I think you're right.  I find their separation frustrating, but it feels both intentional and temporary to me [and season 1 had a similar dynamic].  

[Kaboom 2.0]

Add me to Club Why Can't We Have Both Paul AND Cal Around. Yeah I'm shallow, so what? lol I know we were just introduced to Cal but as millahnna just posted, DB's performance as Paul is imho layered, the way he reacts to things around him, etc. I'm actually hoping to see what his reaction will be to Sarah latching onto Cal.

 

Cosima's Leekie impression? Best part of the episode. Felix returning to support Alison after finding out Sarah's been lying to him about Kira's father was a close second, I love those two together. As others have already posted I love how Sarah is no Mary Sue, she has faults and problems and can be selfish, which I love.

 

My boyfriend turned to me and asked how the hell Art had a photo of creepy ass Big Love Ranch and I turned to him and said "I honestly don't know...did we miss something?!" We were also trying to figure out what vehicle hit Sarah and Daniel's car, was it a car, a pick up truck, etc. I blurted out that if it wasn't Art then maybe it was Mrs. S.

 

Helena annoyed me by the end of last season but boy do I want that girl to somehow bust her way out of that creepy ass Big Love Ranch, if she can't then maybe Art can rescue her, who knows, just get her OUT. The second she woke up in that old timey wedding gown (it reminded me of Geena Davis' wedding gown in Beetlejuice), turned her head and saw those weirdos lined up staring at her, I actually gasped and said "oh NO" aloud. And Creepy Cowboy carrying her at the end, to what many of us think awaits her? SHUDDER. I remember mentioning that I did not want to see Helena turned into a broodmare after last week's ep and I certainly do not want to see her raped. I'm wondering, hoping, that somehow she'll use Grace, somehow, to escape.

[Enigma X]

 

Add me to Club Why Can't We Have Both Paul AND Cal Around

 

I am joining this club too!

[hardy har]

This season has kind of reminded me of Season 4 of BtVS, in which all the characters initially are splintered and not really getting anywhere as a result. I have a feeling we'll see the Clone Club slowly come back together as the season progresses. Based on the promo summaries, we might even start to see that as soon as the next episode. Here's hoping!

I haven't been too worried about the separate storylines so far. In one of the maaaaaany promo interviews leading up to S2 Graeme Manson and John Fawcett said the beginning of the season would be the clones away from each other trying to fix their individual situations due to the events of the finale, but eventually they'd realize they need one another/are better as team. It looks like we're getting that next ep.

 

Damn, those ladies have a lot to fill each other in about don't they?

 

My boyfriend turned to me and asked how the hell Art had a photo of creepy ass Big Love Ranch and I turned to him and said "I honestly don't know...did we miss something?!" We were also trying to figure out what vehicle hit Sarah and Daniel's car, was it a car, a pick up truck, etc. I blurted out that if it wasn't Art then maybe it was Mrs. S.

 

It was definitely a pickup. I actually went back to watch it because I thought it was the truck Sarah & Co. ditched before they went to Cal's, but it was a different color. I thought it might be Cal, but I could see it being Mrs. S too. I'm not sure it would be Art because he's busy with the Creepy-Ass Big Love Ranch . . . .unless it turns out CABLR is in the same area.

[shapeshifter]

trying to figure out what vehicle hit Sarah and Daniel's car, was it a car, a pick up truck, etc. I blurted out that if it wasn't Art then maybe it was Mrs. S

It was definitely a pickup. I actually went back to watch it because I thought it was the truck Sarah & Co. ditched before they went to Cal's, but it was a different color. I thought it might be Cal, but I could see it being Mrs. S too. I'm not sure it would be Art because he's busy with the Creepy-Ass Big Love Ranch . . . .unless it turns out CABLR is in the same area.

Does Art have a truck? I was thinking it was Art To The Rescue *cue Lone Ranger or other appropriate music.*

Probably overthinking here: Maybe Helena got a jealous vibe from Grace, and that's why she offered her the drumstick.

[kieyra]

This was the first episode of the show where I was actually bored.  I even started surfing the net instead of paying my usual rapt attention.  I like Sarah but I agree with the earlier poster who said this was TOO much of her.  And I have to think that her dragging Cal into this was an ill advised plan and probably means he'll be dead by season's end.  Not that I care because, if he is indeed Kira's dad, I was underwhelmed.  Overall, I found myself hoping Daniel would succeed in getting away with either Kira or Sarah...or both. At least that would get things moving.

 

My feeling about the last two episodes is that it's not so much a matter of too much Sarah focus (although we got that this week), it's the way all the clones have been split up into their own storyline...none of which are particularly riveting compared to last year, when the stakes seemed higher.

 

Also, Cosima working for Dyad and acting casual about it, while not interacting with any of the other clones (even a clandestine Skype call to let us know she's still doing a long con) is really pulling the fangs from several storylines for me. 

[LoneHaranguer]

 

Probably overthinking here: Maybe Helena got a jealous vibe from Grace, and that's why she offered her the drumstick.

Offering food is a pretty basic way to try to make a friend, so I don't think it's overthinking at all. Helena could use some friends in her situation.

[DropTheSoap]

I got the feeling that the Child of the Corn that wheeled Helena from the hospital was jealous that she wasn't going to be his big bunch of crazy.

The last video of Swimmer-clone, right around the time Delphine is asking Cosima if she could handle this, has the clone saying something about how Leekie was never going to cure her. Anyone catch that? Is it because she was incurable? Alternatively, is there another explanation? Did she figure out DYAD was not her friend? Her boyfriend was not her boyfriend? Possibly that watching her die was just a way to gather more data on the clones.

[joshleejosh]

There wasn't any indication that she knew what Dyad was really about. I think it was just despair at the realization that no one was going to find a cure and that she was on her deathbed. Good times!

[Captanne]

In a way, Cal reminded me of any cute character I see in a nature show.  Whenever cute baby animals show up on Nature or National Geographic, I say to myself, "Uh oh.  This one is going to die.  It's just a dead critter walking.  It's much too adorable and likeable and it has emotional ties to the main storyline.  It's toast."

 

That Cal is still alive makes me even more suspicious of him.

Edited May 6, 2014 by Captanne

[bravelittletoaster]

If Cal is planning something nefarious he must be master of the long con, considering he never expected to see Sarah again and she sought him out.  This doesn't strike me as the kind of show to pull non-sensical double-twists out of its ass, which that most certainly would be.  But I am forever amused that tv has us trained not to trust untrained civilians who opt not to take head shots from a distance with a shotgun.  snerk.

 

Seriously though, kids, please don't try that at home.

Edited May 6, 2014 by bravelittletoaster

[Captanne]

It worried me that I am so indoctrinated that I didn't bat an eye the guy had a shotgun in the first place -- let alone taking kill shots at other human beings.

[kieyra]

It worried me that I am so indoctrinated that I didn't bat an eye the guy had a shotgun in the first place -- let alone taking kill shots at other human beings.

 

I think I've seen you pursuing this line of thought on another forum (I guess reddit or TWOP?) and I'll just echo what people said there: he's alone in a cabin in the woods. I don't think the writers intended it to be a political statement or an indicator of Cal's overall character. It's not unreasonable for him to own a long gun in that situation, and I don't think the audience's lack of shock means we are 'indoctrinated'. There's been absolutely no lack of guns on this show, including a ton of them in Alison's storylines. Even a gun bouquet. 

 

Edit: Oh, apparently I saw you posting the same thing on page 1 of this thread, not another site. 

Edited May 6, 2014 by kieyra

[DropTheSoap]

Is that something Mrs. S. says she likes about being in the country in the first season -- the fact that guns are easily obtained.

[Athena]

Is that something Mrs. S. says she likes about being in the country in the first season -- the fact that guns are easily obtained.

 

I think there was a pointed remark about class and her nationality about that since they came from Great Britain. In the context of Canada and US, the US is easier to buy guns. Based on the fact Mrs S was coming from Britain and Ireland where cops don't even have guns and the only people who owned shotguns in the past were rich, upper class, it is easier in Canada (or wherever they are in North America).

[Riful]

  But I am forever amused that tv has us trained not to trust untrained civilians who opt not to take head shots from a distance with a shotgun.  snerk.

 

I am pretty sure Cal was not holding a shotgun but something like a bolt action riffle? There was a small scope on it and he shot at the ground and then reloaded the single bullet out. I remember it like that because it reminded me of those at carnivals.

 

Edit (or attempting to. can't get the picture coding working): This is a pic of Cal with his weapon 

 

http://i.imgur.com/VsuwkqD.png

Edited May 7, 2014 by Dougal
Fixed image to show up.

[shapeshifter]

...The last video of Swimmer-clone, right around the time Delphine is asking Cosima if she could handle this, has the clone saying something about how Leekie was never going to cure her. Anyone catch that? Is it because she was incurable? Alternatively, is there another explanation? Did she figure out DYAD was not her friend? Her boyfriend was not her boyfriend? Possibly that watching her die was just a way to gather more data on the clones.

There wasn't any indication that she knew what Dyad was really about. I think it was just despair at the realization that no one was going to find a cure and that she was on her deathbed. Good times!

Or, sort of a corollary to DropTheSoap's musings: She believed they discovered a cure, and also found about the clone program, and overheard that if they tried the cure, it would skew their clone experiment results.

If Cal is planning something nefarious he must be master of the long con, considering he never expected to see Sarah again and she sought him out....

They could have paid him off to impregnate her and then stay out of the picture. Maybe he has some rare blood type that is conducive to clone fertilizing. Heh. If so, the cult guys would want to borrow him.

[DioxinBlues]

They could have paid him off to impregnate her and then stay out of the picture. Maybe he has some rare blood type that is conducive to clone fertilizing. Heh. If so, the cult guys would want to borrow him.

 

 

Well, he is a professional pollinator so...

[bravelittletoaster]

Given the way Sarah behaves [and I'm not judging] I wouldn't think it would be necessary to pay someone to impregnate her.  Odds are it was going to happen eventually [given she seems to have normal fertility.]

 

ETA: DioxinBlues said it funnier

Edited May 6, 2014 by bravelittletoaster

[Joystickenvy]

I am pretty sure Cal was not holding a shotgun but something like a bolt action riffle? There was a small scope on it and he shot at the ground and then reloaded the single bullet out. I remember it like that because it reminded me of those at carnivals.

 

Edit (or attempting to. can't get the picture coding working): This is a pic of Cal with his weapon http://imgur.com/VsuwkqD

I believe you are correct that it is a rifle and not a shotgun.

I also agree that unless you are talking about some kind of sharp shooter, there's no real reason to expect someone to be comfortable trying to shoot a guy that is struggling with someone you don't want to get shot. Even a police officer would probably not take that kind of shot in real life.

Course we all know what Keanu Reeves would have done.

[bravelittletoaster]

I may be unduly influenced on Cal's "untaken shot issue" by something I read once in this Idiot's Survival Guide that had a moment in the late 90s.  They said if anyone ever points a gun at you to run away in a slightly zig zag fashion, because unless that person is a SEAL sniper they're probably not going to hit you.  It ain't as easy as the movies make it look.

[Ankai]

If Cal is planning something nefarious he must be master of the long con, considering he never expected to see Sarah again and she sought him out.  This doesn't strike me as the kind of show to pull non-sensical double-twists out of its ass, which that most certainly would be.  

I don't know. I am still trying to wrap my head around the notion that the Proleathians got to the Birdwatchers either right after Mrs. S. contacted them to take Kira away or at some random point in the past on the off-chance that Mrs. S. would do that.

 

I am not sure what to think about Cal. He seemed a lot more comfortable in letting Sarah back into his life even after he received confirmation that she was still stealing stuff. As for why he didn't shoot, perhaps he does not usually use that gun on people and had trouble really wrapping his mind around it. Maybe. Did Felix simply not know that Cal was Kira's father or did he seriously not know about Cal at all? Was this one of those times when Sarah was off on her own?

 

I am hoping for more in-person clone interaction. There was some in the previous episode, but all that we got here was a phone call from Alison to Cosima. On the other hand, I am not sure that we had ever seen them interact without Sarah there.

[Wilson Cat]

Having binge watched S1, I may have missed something in the blur of episodes.  Help me out here.  The bad guy who pretended to be FBI, who grabbed Kira and then took Sarah....who is he with?  Is he part of Dyad?  Or is there yet a 3rd group of baddies out there threatening the clones?

Edited May 7, 2014 by Wilson Cat

[Ceeg]

Having binge watched S1, I may have missed something in the blur of episodes.  Help me out here.  The bad guy who pretended to be FBI, who grabbed Kira and then took Sarah....who is he with?  Is he part of Dyad?  Or is there yet a 3rd group of baddies out there threatening the clones?

He works for Rachel. He is the one who grabbed Alison in the first episode, and who told Paul he wanted to shoot him, and who was running around looking for Sarah in 2.01. He's also the guy who stopped Art from interviewing Sarah in 1.10.

Edited May 7, 2014 by Ceeg

[Bort]

I think there was a pointed remark about class and her nationality about that since they came from Great Britain. In the context of Canada and US, the US is easier to buy guns. Based on the fact Mrs S was coming from Britain and Ireland where cops don't even have guns and the only people who owned shotguns in the past were rich, upper class, it is easier in Canada (or wherever they are in North America).

I just spent the last four months in the UK, the cops there definitely have guns. Especially the ones at the airport with the drug dogs, dressed in full-on SWAT body armor and packing assault rifles.

At any rate, Cal has chickens, he needs that rifle to keep predators away from his coop at the very least. He wouldn't have any chickens left if he didn't have it.

[bravelittletoaster]

I just spent the last four months in the UK, the cops there definitely have guns. Especially the ones at the airport with the drug dogs, dressed in full-on SWAT body armor and packing assault rifles.

I think cops carrying guns in Britain is a relatively recent development and varies widely according to jurisdiction. Obviously an international airport is one thing. I don't think beat cops in smaller jurisdictions are armed there. Things have changed because of terror attacks, I think. Anyhow, point is, in Mrs. S's day it was different.

Edited May 9, 2014 by bravelittletoaster

[Ghost]

I just spent the last four months in the UK, the cops there definitely have guns. Especially the ones at the airport with the drug dogs, dressed in full-on SWAT body armor and packing assault rifles.

At any rate, Cal has chickens, he needs that rifle to keep predators away from his coop at the very least. He wouldn't have any chickens left if he didn't have it.

 

No, with the exception of Northern Ireland, we don't arm our regular police in the UK. Not yet, anyway. It's an ongoing debate. Police specially authorised to carry guns will be called out in the event of a crime involving firearms, but the regular bobbies on the street do not have them.

 

Airport security is another matter. The guards there are indeed very well armed.

 

I can't really say terror attacks have changed anything in this regard. Terrorism isn't as new to the UK as it is to the US. We lived with the IRA for years.

Edited May 10, 2014 by Rumpelstiltskin

[bravelittletoaster]

London police aren't armed? I'm sure there at least I have seen them carrying. But yeah, we agree on the main point, it was a big deal to Mrs. S because it was a significant departure from where she's from.

[Ghost]

London police aren't armed? I'm sure there at least I have seen them carrying. But yeah, we agree on the main point, it was a big deal to Mrs. S because it was a significant departure from where she's from.

 

No, not unless they're AFOs. Though you are more likely to see them in London than elsewhere I suppose, they can certainly be seen guarding Downing Street and whatnot. :)

[bravelittletoaster]

Ah, yes, so the areas where tourists like me are most likely to be.

Edited May 10, 2014 by bravelittletoaster

[beeble]

QUOTE

Add me to Club Why Can't We Have Both Paul AND Cal Around

 

I am joining this club too!

 

I too, would like to be a charter member of this club. However, if I am forced to choose, I choose Cal because he can sing, he likes animals, he's nice to Kira, and he looks hot holding his gun, whereas Paul (so far) only looks hot holding his gun (and when he's naked in the shower). See? I'm not shallow at all.

 

I assumed he didn't take a shot because Sarah and bad guy were squirming around and there wasn't a clear shot. Maybe you all saw something I didn't. 

 

Is the group that has Helena connected to the religious whack-job group that raised her? How do they know about her? Poor Helena and her constant brutalization. I don't know what can be done to help her.