S03.E05: The House of Special Purpose

[beadgirl]

Quote

Frankly, the murder, preceded by the (extraordinarily well acted) abject terror, of the unfortunate lesbian hairdresser, at the hands of Hanzee last season, was much, much, more disturbing, to me.

Me, too.  She did absolutely nothing to warrant such action, nor did she even make a "mistake" like hanging out with the wrong crowd.  It was wrong and ugly-to-hear that Nikki got beaten, but I'm not hugely upset by it because had she not broken a bunch of laws, ruined a marriage, and killed a guy, it likely would never have happened.  Moreover, she unwisely tried to be tough with the guy.  Again, she didn't deserve it, but I wasn't horrified.

Quote

Sy is not interested in the cash. He wants to unload the company on the Widow Goldfarb so Varga becomes her problem. I don't think they would've even considered her offer if they didn't have the Varga problem. 

What mystifies me is that Sy thinks this plan will work, that Varga will totally let him and Emmit walk away from this.  Especially after the cup incident. (And thank you to those who paid more attention to the scene to determine that it really was tainted water Sy was forced to drink; I was cringing too much to really think about it.)

Finally: I was really intrigued by Sy asking/demanding Emmit "remove the handcuffs" (or whatever metaphor he used).  The later scene with Nikki's beatdown undercuts this, but I wonder if Sy's incompetence was because of the restrictions Emmit placed on his behavior, and he might turn out to be more of a match for Varga (or at least Ray and Nikki) than we've seen so far.  I don't think that's what will happen, but it's interesting to contemplate.

[Razzberry]

I feel like the show just shifted into high gear.  I'm fully on board, strapped in, and braced for any body function or fluid that may be thrown in next.

[welcomerain]

  22 hours ago, welcomerain said:

To bring the viewer into visceral sympathy with people who have just been confronted with things entirely out of their frame of reference, that's why.

Or maybe they give their viewers credit for not being the Church Lady.

One doesn't have to be a "church lady" to be disgusted with some of this OTT material (drinking urine, used tampon, to be specific).  FX gave them free range and, IMO, they've taken way too much advantage of that.

So, isn't it way past time for some shoot-outs?  War in the stairwell of Stussy Lots?  Or is snow required for such a scene?

You're supposed to be disgusted by it. Much as the characters are. That's the point.

[welcomerain]

  20 hours ago, henripootel said:

  Nikki's beatdown also made a nice object lesson for Sy, and anyone who thinks Sy and Nikki are in cahoots will have to explain why Sy left Nikki lying in the snow. 

I'm not sure, still, that they ARE in cahoots, tho some posts here have made me think it makes some sense. Just because they're in cahoots doesn't meant they like each other. They're clearly antagonistic, but that doesn't preclude a partnership of some sort of perceived necessity, tho we don't know what that is yet, if it's a thing. Also, Sy is a douchebag and a coward, so tho he seemed disturbed by Nikki's beating, I'm not surprised he'd just leave here there for dead.

  20 hours ago, henripootel said:

Amazing - can't believe I've not really been aware of her until recently.  I remember seeing her in that Diehard movie a while back and being impressed, but I had no idea what a fine actor she is.  I may have to dig up some of her earlier work, although my dislike of Tarantino is such that I think I'll skip Death Proof, MEW or not.  Sorry Ms. Winstead, but Tarantino's work always leaves me feeling stupider and slightly soiled for having watched it.

  9 hours ago, henripootel said:

Line forms behind me, SlipperyPete.  She even broke up with her spouse a couple of days ago, but alas, I have not.  A luminously beautiful woman and a very good actor, she.  I soldiered my way through Mercy Street mostly for her, and I was hoping she'd get better material to work with.  Glad to see she has.

I've loved her for years, (and Tarantino is one of my fave directors, so there's that, I adore him. Not sure how anyone could feel stupid after watching "Reservoir Dogs or Pulp Fiction, but I won't try to tell you Death Proof will elevate any particular brain cells. But it's a really fun dirty ride). And how nice was her Instagram post announcing her and her hubby's divorce? All splits should be so sweet.

  22 hours ago, welcomerain said:

Well, again, the author of the article said Sy deserved it more. I don't think either deserved it, but if I have to pick a more deserving recipient, it's the blackmailer and scammer, not the victim's lawyer.

True enough, but the thugs that beat her to a pulp weren't there for her. They were there for Sy, who got he and Emmit into the whole mess with Vargas and Co in the first place. That she got HIS beating doesn't seem quite equitable, even if she IS a blackmailer/murderer/scammer. She's not a heroine or an admirable person, but the mob guys were there to teach Sy a lesson, not her. She was just collateral damage. Unless there's more to the whole thing than we know.

I think it's likelier that they are removing problem areas from the business on which they prey. A blackmailer is a problem area. Sy, they have control of, and have demonstrated this grotesquely. If they had come there to beat Sy, they'd have beaten Sy.

But hey, it's funny to watch people come up with reasons why the homewrecking, blackmailing scam artist is morally superior to the idiot lawyer with bad judgment. Reverse the genders and we'd be seeing none of that here.

[MisterBluxom]

1 hour ago, Razzberry said:

I feel like the show just shifted into high gear.  I'm fully on board, strapped in, and braced for any body function or fluid that may be thrown in next.

If and when they show an "acid attack" where someone throws some acid into the face of their victim causing the nose, ears and parts of the face to be melted away and the result is the most horribly disfigured face you can imagine, I think you will know the show has gone close to the limit of what kinds of terrible fluids may be thrown in. Personally,  I could really do without that and I could even do without about one half of what we've been shown to date. I just don't see any need for it.

[welcomerain]

  21 hours ago, Mumbles said:

There is an ugliness in this season that just seems to cross a line. This show has never shied away from showing human nature at its worst, but the stuff that's going on here is gratuitous in its violence and misanthropy - the cup of urine, the vulgarity and the anti-Semitism, beating a woman nearly to death, the tampon from an earlier episode....it just seems to be thrown in there because the writers lack the patience, creativity, or talent to make the same point in less vulgar ways. And no, I'm not a church lady.

The woman who was beaten is a murderer. In previous seasons we have seen violent criminals, men and women, shot, beheaded, stabbed, etc.. How is the beating of this murderer more excessive? How is the anti-Semitism more vulgar than the racism we have seen in previous seasons? How is a tampon more vulgar than a human head in a box?

To answer the last question: It's the opposite. There's no standard disposal box for human heads in public restrooms.

[shapeshifter]

5 hours ago, luna1122 said:

 . . . I can't wait for someone to throw Vargas off a parking structure, and Sy could go with him.

Except Sy seems to be vulnerable to earthly punishments, like being forced to drink from a defiled vessel or made to watch a brutal beating, whereas Varga seems incapable of any human feelings. So maybe let's have Varga thrown off a parking structure while Sy watches and is warned that this will be his fate too if he doesn't make restitution for all of his misdeeds against all persons, beginning with the Stussy brothers—assuming Sy is responsible for Ray being cut out of his inheritance rather than Emit. And no, I don't think that because a teenage Ray chose the hot car over the valuable stamps that it's his own fault.

 

1 hour ago, welcomerain said:

I think it's likelier that they are removing problem areas from the business on which they prey. A blackmailer is a problem area. Sy, they have control of, and have demonstrated this grotesquely. If they had come there to beat Sy, they'd have beaten Sy.

But hey, it's funny to watch people come up with reasons why the homewrecking, blackmailing scam artist is morally superior to the idiot lawyer with bad judgment. Reverse the genders and we'd be seeing none of that here.

Nikki didn't intend to wreck Emmit's marriage; she expected him to give her money to keep the marriage intact. And she believes Emmit owes Ray the money. Sy, OTOH, I'm pretty sure has made it his mission to make sure Ray does not profit from the business founded on his father's inheritance. And yes, Nikki did murder Ray's parolee, but only after Maurice threatened them with a gun and, IIRC, said they needed to pay his blackmail "or else." So I don't think this is an instance where reversing the characters' genders would matter —although I do think Nikki's physical attractiveness and her charming manner do make her more sympathetic to the audience than any of the not very buff or not very attractively groomed other characters.

 

About Nikki responding to Ray's "I love you" with a Han Solo-esque "You're sweet": 
I'm not sure if this is just indicative of her sociopathy (that she's incapable of loving another human) or if, as has been suggested upthread, that she is just using Ray as a means to a financial gain. And I don't think those two possibilities are mutually exclusive.

 

About Sy being forced to drink from the cup:
When they zoomed in on him not-drinking, I thought it looked like water, but I missed the reveal (mentioned upthread) that it was just (unclean) water, so I was slightly less grossed out, being reassured that the actor was just tasting water, but still thinking the character was drinking urine. 
Does anyone definitively know from an interview whether the audience was supposed to be sure it was "just" tainted water? I mean, I'm sure many looked away after they saw Varga put the cup to his unzipped pants.

 

ETA: Was I the only one who, when they only showed beaten Nikki from the torso-up, dragging herself into the truck, was afraid they had maimed her legs or paralyzed her? It has been noted by some respected film maker (whose name escapes me) that horror is much more effective when things happen off camera and are left to the audience's imagination than when everything is graphically shown. That has happened here (perhaps with the exception of the view of Maurice's corpse), and is why I probably shouldn't keep watching this show, but with Superior Donuts on hiatus, I'm left with this and similar shows. Maybe it's time I took a TV hiatus myself.

Edited May 20, 2017 by shapeshifter
spelling? and grammar and clarity

[Starchild]

Gloria's boss blocking her investigation seemed like a real contrivance to me. Why would any half-decent cop not care about solving a murder, especially with so many coincidences that it's unlikely they're actually coincidences? It isn't realistic.

[MisterBluxom]

13 hours ago, Starchild said:

Gloria's boss blocking her investigation seemed like a real contrivance to me. Why would any half-decent cop not care about solving a murder, especially with so many coincidences that it's unlikely they're actually coincidences? It isn't realistic.

I think you may have provided the answer to your own question. You used the phrase "any half-decent cop". This guy has suffered through a foreign war and may be suffering from PTSD or something similar. In any case, he seems to be somewhat off his trolley.

Edited May 20, 2017 by MissBluxom

[Starchild]

Maybe, but he's been promoted to Chief, so he can't be a complete basket case. Guess I'll just have to suspend my disbelief. Every protagonist needs one or more antagonists, after all.

[MisterBluxom]

10 hours ago, Starchild said:

Maybe, but he's been promoted to Chief, so he can't be a complete basket case. Guess I'll just have to suspend my disbelief. Every protagonist needs one or more antagonists, after all.

I don't like to contradict or quarrel with other members. It almost never seems to lead to anything worthwhile. This may seem like I'm contradicting you. But what I'm really trying to do is to inject some humor into this discussion.

Considering the current state of the world, can you not imagine some people who have become leaders in their fields but, nonetheless, are in many ways basket cases? I'm thinking history is littered with many lunch boxes, basket cases and many other *BLEEP WORDS*.  Looking back and using the advantage of hindsight, it's easy to see how these people came into power. But when it's actually happening - in the moment - it's usually almost impossible to realize what's happening.  I'm not suggesting this new sheriff is much like Hitler - except for the way he may have come into power. It could have been easy for this guy to have been promoted to "new sheriff" for many bizarre reasons. The most likely that comes to my mind is some form of nepotism. If you consider just who is currently in the USA "inner circle of power" today and ask how they got there, it just might be for some reason that is not at all better than this "new sheriff" finds himself as "the boss".  Personally, I find these kinds of developments terrifying. This "new sheriff" has no business at all running the sheriff's department and maybe that is the reason the show writers decided to make the department consist of only 3 people. I wonder why they didn't make it only two people - namely the "new sheriff" and the "old sheriff".  That would have shone a light on just how ridiculous it was to make that goof the "new sheriff".

With any luck and in consideration of all the terrible violence we've been seeing on this show lately, maybe we will have some good luck and some kind of terrible violence will break out that will terminate his stay in office. I think the following ancient advertising slogan just may be appropriate:  "We deserve a break today!"

Edited May 20, 2017 by MissBluxom

[Cherpumple]

I didn't get the impression that Sy and Nikki are working together. I just saw it as Sy going after her aggressively because he desperately wanted to prove to Emmitt that he is still the "fixer". As for why he had her number, this didn't strike me as the least bit odd because it's been a standard TV trope for decades that a character magically knows the number for any person or business they need to call. I think it's just a time saver, like the way characters rarely say "good bye" to end their calls. Once you notice it, you see it all over the place.

So far I'm enjoying this season, but don't really feel invested in who lives or dies so the violence/gross-out factor isn't really registering with me. I like a lot of the main actors, but I'm pretty "meh" on the characters and the plots. And quite frankly, storylines that revolve around corporate money laundering and other financial shenanigans usually confuse me or bore me to tears. I really miss the characters from season two and would love to see the remaining Gerhardt kid show up (freshly released from prison).

[Gobi]

7 hours ago, Starchild said:

Gloria's boss blocking her investigation seemed like a real contrivance to me. Why would any half-decent cop not care about solving a murder, especially with so many coincidences that it's unlikely they're actually coincidences? It isn't realistic.

I didn't find this to be a contrivance. A murder was committed, and the murderer himself is dead. That's going to be case closed in just about every police force in the world. The audience feels differently about it, because  we know there's more to it. Police, like everyone else, have limited resources. Why waste them on what looks like a farfetched theory, when a solution has already been found?

A known criminal with a drug habit breaks into a house, looking for something to steal, and kills the owner. The criminal later dies in an accident. "That's a wrap" is going to be the normal police reaction. Not "I think he was sent by somebody to kill someone else, for some unknown reason, and went to the wrong address." Occam's razor applied, case solved.

And what if he did go to the wrong address? The most plausible reason is that it was his idea, that he was hoping to rob the rich Stussy, but being the screwup that he was, well, he screwed up. That his parole officer was the intended victim's brother only helps explain how he knew about the rich brother.

Edited May 20, 2017 by Gobi

[MisterBluxom]

5 hours ago, Gobi said:

I didn't find this to be a contrivance. A murder was committed, and the murderer himself is dead. That's going to be case closed in just about every police force in the world. The audience feels differently about it, because  we know there's more to it. Police, like everyone else, have limited resources. Why waste them on what looks like a farfetched theory, when a solution has already been found?

A known criminal with a drug habit breaks into a house, looking for something to steal, and kills the owner. The criminal later dies in an accident. "That's a wrap" is going to be the normal police reaction. Not "I think he was sent by somebody to kill someone else, for some unknown reason, and went to the wrong address." Occam's razor applied, case solved.

And what if he did go to the wrong address? The most plausible reason is that it was his idea, that he was hoping to rob the rich Stussy, but being the screwup that he was, well, he screwed up. That his parole officer was the intended victim's brother only helps explain how he knew about the rich brother.

Thank you for saying that. IMO, we just don't get enough posts like yours and I think we need more of them.

[Bannon]

7 hours ago, Gobi said:

I didn't find this to be a contrivance. A murder was committed, and the murderer himself is dead. That's going to be case closed in just about every police force in the world. The audience feels differently about it, because  we know there's more to it. Police, like everyone else, have limited resources. Why waste them on what looks like a farfetched theory, when a solution has already been found?

A known criminal with a drug habit breaks into a house, looking for something to steal, and kills the owner. The criminal later dies in an accident. "That's a wrap" is going to be the normal police reaction. Not "I think he was sent by somebody to kill someone else, for some unknown reason, and went to the wrong address." Occam's razor applied, case solved.

And what if he did go to the wrong address? The most plausible reason is that it was his idea, that he was hoping to rob the rich Stussy, but being the screwup that he was, well, he screwed up. That his parole officer was the intended victim's brother only helps explain how he knew about the rich brother.

Yeah, it 's usually a mistake to underestimate the degree to which the bureaucratic impulse to just get the paperwork finished and filed, so the bureaucracy can just move on to the next item to be checked off, can result in the most abjectly stupid management imaginable, with disastrous results. Hell, the phenomena played a huge role in the minor error known as WWI. Somebody gets assasinated, one bureaucracy gives their mobilization plans the green light, the other bureaucracies note this and follow suit. Once the bureaucratic machines start, they just keep moving down their checklists, and the next thing you know, the world spends the next several decades at war, with deaths approaching 150-200 million. Oops.

Yeah, I'll buy the paper shuffling bringing a premature end to a murder investigation in Eden Valley, Minnesota.

[rose711]

Any idea on why Ray didn't deny withdrawing the money from the bank and place the blame on his bother? Why did he admit to the IRS he withdrew it when he didn't?

[rose711]

Any idea on why Ray didn't deny withdrawing the money from the bank and place the blame on his bother? Why did he admit to the IRS he withdrew it when he didn't?

Couldn't edit but I wanted to add: so happy to see Mary McConnell on the show. She's one of my favorites since way back with Battlestar Galactica.

[rose711]

  16 hours ago, Starchild said:

Gloria's boss blocking her investigation seemed like a real contrivance to me. Why would any half-decent cop not care about solving a murder, especially with so many coincidences that it's unlikely they're actually coincidences? It isn't realistic.

I didn't find this to be a contrivance. A murder was committed, and the murderer himself is dead. That's going to be case closed in just about every police force in the world. The audience feels differently about it, because  we know there's more to it. Police, like everyone else, have limited resources. Why waste them on what looks like a farfetched theory, when a solution has already been found?

A known criminal with a drug habit breaks into a house, looking for something to steal, and kills the owner. The criminal later dies in an accident. "That's a wrap" is going to be the normal police reaction. Not "I think he was sent by somebody to kill someone else, for some unknown reason, and went to the wrong address." Occam's razor applied, case solved.

And what if he did go to the wrong address? The most plausible reason is that it was his idea, that he was hoping to rob the rich Stussy, but being the screwup that he was, well, he screwed up. That his parole officer was the intended victim's brother only helps explain how he knew about the rich brother.

Isn't it different when it's the investigating officers stepfather? Usually on tv shows if an officers family member is murdered, no stones are left unturned in solving the crime.
That's the part I find unbelievable in the chief dismissing her ideas.

[Gobi]

41 minutes ago, rose711 said:

Isn't it different when it's the investigating officers stepfather? Usually on tv shows if an officers family member is murdered, no stones are left unturned in solving the crime.
That's the part I find unbelievable in the chief dismissing her ideas.

I think, if anything, that would make the Chief question her judgment even more. She's too close to the case. If the police force was larger, I am sure someone else would have been assigned to the case.

[Starchild]

Y'all make reasonable points.

[rose711]

2 hours ago, Gobi said:

I think, if anything, that would make the Chief question her judgment even more. She's too close to the case. If the police force was larger, I am sure someone else would have been assigned to the case.

Yes that's true if they had a larger force  but dismissing her concerns about her stepfathers murder doesn't really ring true. It's not like a random victim was involved and the murder was brutal which seems to necessitate a closer look.

I guess this entire season is about how idiots (and selfish people - he should have just given back the stamp or the money) screw everything up. 

Im wondering what the next move will be.  

Edited May 20, 2017 by rose711

[Razzberry]

 Molly's boss from season 1 was so dense it drove me nuts,  and I commented on how I've never seen a real cop Gloria's size, but I keep forgetting that expecting realism from Fargo is like  complaining that the Big Bad Wolf in Little Red Riding Hood can talk and dress himself in Grandma's clothes.   Speaking of, was that supposed to be a wolf at the end of the show?

[Gobi]

28 minutes ago, Razzberry said:

 Molly's boss from season 1 was so dense it drove me nuts,  and I commented on how I've never seen a real cop Gloria's size, but I keep forgetting that expecting realism from Fargo is like  complaining that the Big Bad Wolf in Little Red Riding Hood can talk and dress himself in Grandma's clothes.   Speaking of, was that supposed to be a wolf at the end of the show?

I wondered what that was, too. Is there a connection to the Peter and the Wolf theme from the prior episode?

[ghoulina]

22 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

ETA: Was I the only one who, when they only showed beaten Nikki from the torso-up, dragging herself into the truck, was afraid they had maimed her legs or paralyzed her?

That was my thought as well, but then how would she have driven home?

 

And yes, I saw that as a wolf in the black clouds at the end. Varga is the wolf. 

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, ghoulina said:

That was my thought as well, but then how would she have driven home? . . . 

Yes, as soon as she pulled herself into an upright position in the truck, I breathed a sigh of relief that we wouldn't likely be seeing a dismembering injury.

 

20 hours ago, Starchild said:

Maybe, but he's been promoted to Chief, so he can't be a complete basket case. Guess I'll just have to suspend my disbelief. Every protagonist needs one or more antagonists, after all.

Or it could be said that most versions of Fargo are based on The Peter Principle (no real relation to Pete and the Wolf).

[benteen]

What has been this show's fixation with bodily functions this season?  To use a South Park expression, they've literally fallen in love with the smells of their own farts and it's disgusting.

I wasn't into this episode at all and this I'm fading as to this season.  Emmitt's wife falling for that video was ridiculous.  Then you have Sy...you would think with all the times he's been threatened, he would at least start carrying a gun.

[bikebrh]

 Molly's boss from season 1 was so dense it drove me nuts,  and I commented on how I've never seen a real cop Gloria's size, but I keep forgetting that expecting realism from Fargo is like  complaining that the Big Bad Wolf in Little Red Riding Hood can talk and dress himself in Grandma's clothes.   Speaking of, was that supposed to be a wolf at the end of the show?

Well, I've seen female cops Gloria's size before, so I'm not having too much trouble with that.

[beadgirl]

Quote

Molly's boss from season 1 was so dense it drove me nuts

What I appreciated about him is that 1) we got scenes showing that although he was a lousy cop and boss, he was a genuinely decent, caring person, and 2) he came to realize his mistakes and the fact that he was not right for the job.  We don't have anything humanizing yet for this boss, although his experience in war could serve as that.

[Raja]

On 5/19/2017 at 5:54 PM, shapeshifter said:

Except Sy seems to be vulnerable to earthly punishments, like being forced to drink from a defiled vessel or made to watch a brutal beating, whereas Varga seems incapable of any human feelings. So maybe let's have Varga thrown off a parking structure while Sy watches and is warned that this will be his fate too if he doesn't make restitution for all of his misdeeds against all persons, beginning with the Stussy brothers—assuming Sy is responsible for Ray being cut out of his inheritance rather than Emit. And no, I don't think that because a teenage Ray chose the hot car over the valuable stamps that it's his own fault.

 

 

About Sy being forced to drink from the cup:
When they zoomed in on him not-drinking, I thought it looked like water, but I missed the reveal (mentioned upthread) that it was just (unclean) water, so I was slightly less grossed out, being reassured that the actor was just tasting water, but still thinking the character was drinking urine. 
Does anyone definitively know from an interview whether the audience was supposed to be sure it was "just" tainted water? I mean, I'm sure many looked away after they saw Varga put the cup to his unzipped pants.

 

ETA: Was I the only one who, when they only showed beaten Nikki from the torso-up, dragging herself into the truck, was afraid they had maimed her legs or paralyzed her? It has been noted by some respected film maker (whose name escapes me) that horror is much more effective when things happen off camera and are left to the audience's imagination than when everything is graphically shown. That has happened here (perhaps with the exception of the view of Maurice's corpse), and is why I probably shouldn't keep watching this show, but with Superior Donuts on hiatus, I'm left with this and similar shows. Maybe it's time I took a TV hiatus myself.

I guess we all bring our own experiences into the scene. Part of the not seeing the beating lets our imaginations run with just Sy's reaction. With this is the next step after the cup warning. And then the cup scene. It was so long that I didn't think urine, trying to force a little out and then stop without dripping being a trick that if failed would ruin the intimidation factor. I was thinking it was a  rape threat position myself. Like the police interrogators in the movie Sicarrio and to a lessor extend on Hawaii 5-0 standing over the suspect and pushing their crotch towards the face. while trying to get information.

When Nikki turned up at home instead of a hospital I was sure that she would be dead in that bathtub.. That she drove herself took away any thoughts of paralysis.

[henripootel]

15 hours ago, Raja said:

When Nikki turned up at home instead of a hospital I was sure that she would be dead in that bathtub.. That she drove herself took away any thoughts of paralysis.

Not any thoughts of organ damage.  It'd be impressive if Nikki had some and still managed to get home, but she's not out of the woods by any stretch.  If Ray has any brains he'll take her to the hospital immediately.  I mean Nikki's tough and I get the feeling that this isn't her first rodeo, but better safe than sorry.  

[ALenore]

On 5/18/2017 at 7:34 PM, iMonrey said:

Not only was that one weird restaurant, but when he walked outside, the sign over the door said "Bears Lounge" or something with "Bears." Which made me wonder if it was supposed to be a gay club.

I really liked art on the walls of the interior of the restaurant.   I checked it out on Google. It's called The Bears Den, and is in Calgary, Alberta Canada. https://www.bearsdencalgary.com It looks like a regular restaurant, not a gay club.  It's on "Bearspaw Road", so I think the restaurant name probably just has to do with actual bears.  

I think it's possible that the reason the IRS was checking out Emmitt was not just the $10,000 withdrawal.  Could The Widow Goldfarb have given anonymous tip to the IRS in order to bring down the business?  

[Eulipian 5k]

About the $10k notification, here's a comment that got swallowed and lost. If you Google "Former House Speaker Dennis Hastert goes to prison", you'll see that not only will the IRS be notified for any $10k or greater withdrawal, but the Bank will report you  for regular withdrawals that are $9k or more. They got Denny Hastert ~ 20 years after the fact because the bank reported him to the IRS for trying to evade the $10k notification. Turns out he was making regular blackmail payments to hush up child abuse. Some Civil Libertarians today are pushing back with the same question Emmit asked; "It's my money, what's it to you G-man?"

[benteen]

The $10,000 notification also is what got the ball rolling on Elliot Spitzer when he was governor of NY.  He called a bank and asked for $10,000.  He called back shortly thereafter because he realized it would trigger an investigation.  The bank thought he was being blackmailed and started an investigation that would eventually lead to Spitzer resigning as Governor of New York (and being the inspiration for the show The Good Wife).  It's amazing when politicians don't remember this thing.

Ray is a dumbass but being a parole officer, should know about the $10K notification.

[Eulipian 5k]

Ray is the most irritatingly dense person on this show. He demanded first dibs and chose the Corvette over  the stamp. Emmet built a business, and still kept the stamp unsold. Ray would have traded that stamp for an eight track deck and whitewalls for the 'Vette or put the money whole hog into Betamax futures. Yet he still feels he was cheated out of his birthright.

They were both born with the same genes and look at Emmet vs what Ray did with the same body.

[ChipBach]

On 5/20/2017 at 0:45 AM, Starchild said:

Maybe, but he's been promoted to Chief, so he can't be a complete basket case. Guess I'll just have to suspend my disbelief. Every protagonist needs one or more antagonists, after all.

Peter Principle most likely.  Being in the military does not in and of itself make one a good manager or administrator.  This guy just wants a quiet post, earn toward retirement, and this murder comes along.  He acts as though he is intimidated by Gloria as she appears confident, well respected, and successful (and female?).  I have worked for people like that.  They will do anything to insist they are the only people with a solution.  He would probably take a contrary argument to any suggestion, idea, or theory she has regarding anything from the case, to policy, to the weather...

[AzureOwl]

4 hours ago, benteen said:

Ray is a dumbass but being a parole officer, should know about the $10K notification.

I don't think that's fair. Remember that Ray has no idea about the Varga situation, so he has no reason to suspect the kind of unholy trouble an IRS investigation would cause at that point.

Ray doesn't know that his brother is involved in shady dealings.  As far as Ray is concerned, taking $10K would just saddle his brother with the hassle being audited. Hell, he may have even done it on purpose. 

The fact that Ray thinks he only has to deal with Emmit and Sy would be funny if not for the danger they're unknowingly putting themselves in, as Nikki painfully found out.

3 hours ago, Eulipian 5k said:

Ray is the most irritatingly dense person on this show. He demanded first dibs and chose the Corvette over  the stamp. Emmet built a business, and still kept the stamp unsold. Ray would have traded that stamp for an eight track deck and whitewalls for the 'Vette or put the money whole hog into Betamax futures. Yet he still feels he was cheated out of his birthright.

They way I understood it, their father left a whole sheet of those stamps, and Emmit sold all but one to start his business. 

[rur]

1 hour ago, AzureOwl said:

They way I understood it, their father left a whole sheet of those stamps, and Emmit sold all but one to start his business. 

I thought it was a stamp collection, but regardless, Emmit realized the value of the stamps and used them. Ray didn't see the value and opted for the instant gratification of the 'Vette.

[AzureOwl]

1 hour ago, rur said:

I thought it was a stamp collection, but regardless, Emmit realized the value of the stamps and used them. Ray didn't see the value and opted for the instant gratification of the 'Vette.

That is correct. But even so, it is likely that Ray is not without cause in assuming that Emmit knew the value of the stamps before proposing the trade.  

The fair thing to do would've been to sell both the corvette and the stamps and split the money evenly.

[Eulipian 5k]

17 hours ago, AzureOwl said:

That is correct. But even so, it is likely that Ray is not without cause in assuming that Emmit knew the value of the stamps before proposing the trade.  

The fair thing to do would've been to sell both the corvette and the stamps and split the money evenly.

I thought they were both given a choice and Ray said since he was the eldest he gets first dibs and thereby chose the Lil Red Corvette, (Maybe he was a Prince Fan). What a dumb ass! The stamps were already over 50 years old and worth a fortune; now his 10 yr old Vette is a beat up POS. (The stamp he kept is still worth a lot of money which is why Ray and Swango are still trying to get it)

Edited May 23, 2017 by Eulipian 5k
The saved stamp.

[AzureOwl]

32 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

I thought they were both given a choice and Ray said since he was the eldest he gets first dibs and thereby chose the Lil Red Corvette, (Maybe he was a Prince Fan). What a dumb ass! The stamps were already over 50 years old and worth a fortune; now his 10 yr old Vette is a beat up POS. (The stamp he kept is still worth a lot of money which is why Ray and Swango are still trying to get it)

That's not how it went. Despite appearances Ray is the younger brother. From their conversation in the season premier...

Quote

Ray: How about you just give me back my stamp and we'll call it square.

Sy: Ray...

Ray: No. I'm talking to my brother. Look, you are lucky I don't sue. I mean, a legal document which delineates things... bequeaths them to specific parties... a father, dead in a driveway... and older boy, taking advantage of a younger playing...

Emmit: Nobody took advantage! It was a trade. If I had a time machine, you see, I'd play back the tape. "Emmit come on! I'm begging ya. Take the stupid stamps already. Give me the car"

Ray: No, that's not... that was you tricking me.

Emmit: Ray...

Ray: How much did you get for them anyway? The whole collection? I never asked. What? Two, three dozen stamps? Vintage.

I interpret that conversation to mean that their father's will (the legal document bequeathing things that Ray mentions) left the corvette to Emmit and the stamp collection to Ray. Then the brothers decided to trade.

And since nobody would be stupid enough to trade a few dozen stamps for a car unless they knew beforehand they were valuable, I'm inclined to believe Ray's version that the trade was Emmit's idea. 

Edited May 23, 2017 by AzureOwl
Spelling.

[ghoulina]

Yea, I kind of assumed that Emmit knew about the stamps, but tried to act all benevolent about giving Ray the car, like he was really losing out. Ray then came to find out, after the fact, just how valuable the stamps were. 

[Eulipian 5k]

Thx, AzureOwl, but I believe Emmit. Ray has lied in every-single-episode of the show. From the whole reason for the conversation you  quoted, to the bank, to the sex tape they made. I haven't seen Emmit lie once.

[AzureOwl]

19 minutes ago, Eulipian 5k said:

Thx, AzureOwl, but I believe Emmit. Ray has lied in every-single-episode of the show. From the whole reason for the conversation you  quoted, to the bank, to the sex tape they made. I haven't seen Emmit lie once.

That's fair. We really don't know the who initiated the trade.

But I think we can all agree that in his will the Stussy's father left the stamps to Ray and the car to Emmit and then the brothers traded. Right?

5 minutes ago, Diamond Dog said:

The wife, Stella, is an idiot. She opens a package addressed to her husband (For Your Eyes Only) and it's a blackmail letter and tape. Would she clue in that possibly the only person capable of this would be Ray, and his floozy?  She saw them both at the anniversary party.  Duh?? Then to see that sad looking wig and STILL not figure it out shows what a dimwit she is.  And after 20+ years of marriage wouldn't one stick around to confront the husband about the tape?  Total moron. 

But the daughter and the son-in-law also saw the tape and had the exact same reaction. I also doubt that Stella paid any kind of attention to Ray or who he brought to the party as his +1. 

The idea that Ray would have the brains to come up with a scheme like that probably never crossed their minds. And they would have a point.

[ghoulina]

I think Stella is very naive. I don't see her as the type to sit and scrutinize a tape like that. She has such an innocent mind, I can't see her being able to conceive of someone concocting such a scheme. Plus, she became immediately emotional and wasn't likely capable of rational thought. 

[Razzberry]

I believe that Ray most likely initiated the trade for the shiny new 'Vette.  Emmit strikes me as honest, almost to a fault, and according to Sy he's also been carrying Ray off and on through the years.  Ray's made some bad choices.

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, Razzberry said:

I believe that Ray most likely initiated the trade for the shiny new 'Vette.  Emmit strikes me as honest, almost to a fault, and according to Sy he's also been carrying Ray off and on through the years.  Ray's made some bad choices.

Quite likely. And then it seems it's been Sy whispering in Emmit's ear all these years —whenever Emmit wants to help Ray—telling Emmit that Ray already got his portion.

 

On May 22, 2017 at 4:31 PM, AzureOwl said:

. . . Ray doesn't know that his brother is involved in shady dealings.  As far as Ray is concerned, taking $10K would just saddle his brother with the hassle being audited. Hell, he may have even done it on purpose. . . .

Thanks for this explanation, @AzureOwl, it actually makes sense to me, because I keep thinking everyone (including Ray) has learned the $9,999 rule from Lenny Briscoe or some other L&O-type.

[henripootel]

9 hours ago, AzureOwl said:

The idea that Ray would have the brains to come up with a scheme like that probably never crossed their minds. And they would have a point.

And besides, Nikki kept saying 'Emmit' over and over in the tape, so why would she do that if that wasn't Emmit?  Seriously though, I found that detail hugely amusing, exactly the kinda thing you'd expect to fool dumb people.  It was a nice touch.

[VCRTracking]

Jeez, why is there so many gross stuff this season?

I like seeing Gloria and Lopez working together.

Ewan McGregor continues to be great as both Ray and Emmit. Playing two different versions of someone way over their head.

Yay! Mary McDonnell! Thinking about Jean Smart last season I remembered that short lived mid-90s show "High Society" starring both of them.

Mary Elizabeth Winstead in those boots... Did not expect Nikki to be alive but I'm glad she is.

[shapeshifter]

4 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

Jeez, why is there so many gross stuff this season? . . .

No kidding. We are so far beyond a little artsy blood on the snow— more like what I imagine chainsaw massacre territory looks like.
I wonder if the writers and/or directors were influenced by world and/or family trauma at the time of writing and/or filming.

[SunnyBeBe]

On 5/19/2017 at 9:48 PM, Starchild said:

Gloria's boss blocking her investigation seemed like a real contrivance to me. Why would any half-decent cop not care about solving a murder, especially with so many coincidences that it's unlikely they're actually coincidences? It isn't realistic.

Unless, they show another motivation, the Chief's refusal to allow Gloria to get to the bottom of these murders is just based on a  predictable, CANNED formula from the 1970's tv show and movies.  I didn't buy it then.  Recall how competent and effective detectives would be put on a short leash, taken off a case just because their boss felt like it.   Then, they ignore the boss, precede with the investigation, solve the crime and are the hero.  Rinse, Repeat.  It doesn't amuse me anymore.

Edited May 24, 2017 by SunnyBeBe