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Season 1 Episodes Talk


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5 minutes ago, ReidFan said:

Sympathy for the Devil (Rolling Stones) and The Funeral (Band of Horses) from Revelations (the latter being absolutely spot on perfect for the scene)

I love the use of those songs in that episode. They fit the mood and tone and set the scene so well.

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Madness (Muse) from Broken

This is an example of one of those favorite bands of mine popping up :D. Good song of theirs, too.

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The Riddle (Five For Fighting) from Fisher King Pt 2

Always smile when I hear this one, 'cause it makes me think of that whole end montage with all the team members from "Fisher King" and I love that part of the episode. 

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and for me, it's fun to have my eyes, er, I suppose more accurately, my ears opened to new bands. I've always known about/liked the Rolling Stones of course. I'd never heard of Band of Horses before, but The Funeral is just one of their awesome tunes. And LOL Muse was the exact opposite. I'd always turned my snobby little music nose up against them previously. Heard that song in Broken and loved it, searched it out, realised it was Muse and ate crow. Love them now LOL :) 

I'd never heard of Elms District (they just recently changed their name too) prior to Red Light but I searched out that song on iTunes and bought it immediately. And played it while driving somewhere with the spouse during the summer. HE loves it too (just not on multi-repeat) and has bought their EP.

so, thank you Music Folks at Criminal Minds, you've broadened my musical horizons and appreciations.

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41 minutes ago, ReidFan said:

and for me, it's fun to have my eyes, er, I suppose more accurately, my ears opened to new bands. I've always known about/liked the Rolling Stones of course. I'd never heard of Band of Horses before, but The Funeral is just one of their awesome tunes. And LOL Muse was the exact opposite. I'd always turned my snobby little music nose up against them previously. Heard that song in Broken and loved it, searched it out, realised it was Muse and ate crow. Love them now LOL :) 

Haha, well, hey, I'm glad you gave them a second chance :D. They're a fun band. I get where they might not always be everyone's bag, be it right away or at all, though. 

And yeah, "Revelations" was the first I'd heard of Band of Horses, too. I too love getting introduced to new music where possible.

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I'd never heard of Elms District (they just recently changed their name too) prior to Red Light but I searched out that song on iTunes and bought it immediately. And played it while driving somewhere with the spouse during the summer. HE loves it too (just not on multi-repeat) and has bought their EP.

so, thank you Music Folks at Criminal Minds, you've broadened my musical horizons and appreciations.

 

And thanks for the info on the group/song from "Red Light", too. I'll make a note to seek them out a bit further.

I second the thanks to the music folks as well. I've always thought that'd be a fun job to have on a TV show-if I couldn't write for the series, I'd be more than happy to handle the music selection side of things :D. 

Edited by Annber03
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17 hours ago, ReidFan said:

deviating from just this episode at this point, but yeah. Besides 'Tears and Rain' in this one:

Sympathy for the Devil (Rolling Stones) and The Funeral (Band of Horses) from Revelations (the latter being absolutely spot on perfect for the scene)

Madness (Muse) from Broken

The Riddle (Five For Fighting) from Fisher King Pt 2

Burden (Foy Vance) from To A Better Place

and the absolute best use of a song on the show ever, Journey On (Elms District) from Red Light

 

I'm sure there are more, but those ones are currently driving my family nuts with the constant repetition O:-) in my house. (he shoulda never bought me a speaker for my iPhone......)

From the moment the discussion of music in CM started, I knew that you were going to say this!! (the part in bold)

I have also discovered a lot of music through CM. And as I don't live in the US, there are a lot of bands and singers I had never heard before listening to their songs in the show.

My favourite at the moment:

-Journey On by Elms District from Red Light

-Amanda's song, by Jason Koiter from Surface Tension

- Broken by Lifehouse from In Birth and Death (season 3) 

- Let it Be Me by Ray Lamontagne from JJ (season (season 6) 

There are a lot more which I like, but these four are being played again, and again, and again... I don't seem to get tired of them!!

Editing to add: Annber, if you want to check on Elm's District, they changed their name, it´s The Pretty Cavaliers now. 

Edited by senin
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21 hours ago, JenJenBosco said:

Yes, I love LDSK for all of your reasons.  Hotch and Reid throughout the entire episode were just fantastic.  Although I do think the music is always spot on...I have never looked into what songs are playing...maybe I should do that.  

I love old seasons threads are active!

Music was great, I got a really long list of songs from this show, I'll have to check names because they are hard to remember in English. Some of the ones already posted here are great, tho

 

Hallelujah - Jeff Buckley

The Riddle - Five for fighting (my favourite scene in the whole show)

Cowboy mouth - always leaving

Broken - Lifehouse

Decoration Day - Drive by Truckers (Hotch being served divorce papers)

Bob Dylan - Shelter from the storm (love this scene, family time, s04e06 The Instincts)
Allman Brown - Ancient light (season 10 Lockdown)

 

These are a few songs which came to my mind right now and I just checked the ones in season 12 I didn't know, "Journey On by Elms District from Red Light" is a beautiful song.

Edited by smoker
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I haven't gotten the chance to watch more episodes of season 1, but I did have some other comments.  

I also love the fade into the next scene thing they have going on.  I really like that slow glimpses into their lives, and light teasing.  Of the first season episodes, I think I enjoyed Extreme Aggressor, Broken Mirror, and LDSK the most.  I also appreciate the idea that they spend time in the office working on paperwork because I feel like that kind of disappears later on.  

I also like that I don't need to see their home lives because it doesn't pertain to the case, and I almost wish that it had stayed that way in the later seasons.  

I found that their music is really good, like all of you have mentioned.  And there are some really awesome moments and conversations.  Like some of the above lines or the moments between Elle and Reid in Plain Sight (only things I liked about the episode) or Morgan tackling Reid to save him when they thought the unsub was that cop in LDSK, or Reid throwing that whistle back at Morgan.  

Also, I just wanted to point out, that although less obnoxious, Garcia always called herself a genius and praised herself from the very first episode, she was just infrequently used that it didn't bother me back then.  Personally, I liked it better that way, but since I went back and read the old TWOP thread, I understand that many people were wanting more of her.  Which the show agreed with, obviously.

Anyway, I'll write more notes when I've watched more episodes.  Also, I hope it's okay to revive the old threads, I was hoping to do the same when I move onto the other seasons.

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On 03/11/2017 at 1:22 AM, JenJenBosco said:

Anyway, I'll write more notes when I've watched more episodes.  Also, I hope it's okay to revive the old threads, I was hoping to do the same when I move onto the other seasons.

I agree with all your observations. Yes its absolutely ok to revive old threads!! Looking forward to more of your comments. I personally have lost interest in the current (13th) season. 

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On 11/2/2017 at 9:22 PM, JenJenBosco said:

Also, I just wanted to point out, that although less obnoxious, Garcia always called herself a genius and praised herself from the very first episode, she was just infrequently used that it didn't bother me back then.  Personally, I liked it better that way, but since I went back and read the old TWOP thread, I understand that many people were wanting more of her.  Which the show agreed with, obviously.

Anyway, I'll write more notes when I've watched more episodes.  Also, I hope it's okay to revive the old threads, I was hoping to do the same when I move onto the other seasons.

Garcia was gloriously snarky at the beginning and, you're right, she had a healthy ego and didn't mind sharing it.  That's the Garcia I might have wanted more of, although I was content to have her play the role she did, with the amount of screen time that she had.

I don't remember if 'Exit Wounds' in season five was her first time accompanying the team in the field, but I think so.  They did a reasonable job of exploring her reaction to being up close and personal with the violence and loss, and we saw how it rocked her foundation a bit.  That would have been appropriate, but it didn't stop there.  Ever since she replaced JJ as the presenter of the cases (in my opinion, one of the worst decisions made by TPTB, at both the FBI and CM), Garcia's revulsion for the work has become her schtick, in a broad, buffoonish way.  I can't remember if I actually read this, or have just imagined it, but it's as though the show is using her to act as the audience's representative, as though they think that's how we would respond to the work the BAU does.  Personally, I think we're a lot tougher than that, which is:  a) why we watch the show and b) part of the reason why I find her reactions to be grating (and inexplicably tolerated by her bosses).  I do remember reading that a benefit of (if not a reason for) having Garcia present is that is affords the actress the opportunity to work directly with the other cast.  But they have an excess of profilers now.  Surely one of them can take on the job of presenting the cases, to keep the mood serious.  I'm not really in the market for comedy in a show about serial killers.

25 minutes ago, ReidGirl said:

I agree with all your observations. Yes its absolutely ok to revive old threads!! Looking forward to more of your comments. I personally have lost interest in the current (13th) season. 

Sorry for that, ReidGirl.  I'm still hanging in, hopeful of more fallout for Reid, and maybe some decent storyline for the more familiar cast members.  I won't watch enjoy the Reidless episodes, but I remain hopeful of the rest---including hoping that Reid and JJ don't climb down into 'The Bunker' and disappear for the rest of the episode!  

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So, I forgot how good the Fox was.  They really got into his pathology, and I loved Morgan's comment, "Everyone thinks that until they find a body in the basement."

I also thought it had an interesting lead into Reid's mom's problems when he mentions everyone being medicated these days.  It's also the first time Garcia breaks into medical records and mentions it.  "Yeah, we'll both go to prison and you'll be someone's bitch."  Reid; "Really?"

The chilling ending with the rings was good.  It definitely hit home at how long some killers can go on for without getting caught.  They only knew about two families, but there were eight rings.

On the other hand, I really dislike Natural Born Killer, the torture is just too much for me.  I like less blood.  However, I do like the way it started...not in the conference room, but on the scene.  I like that they went back to the BAU, and worked from their home base.  I also liked that Garcia didn't cringe from the videos despite the torture.  I also liked the discussion on the normal escalation of crimes and the components that led them to figuring out the undercover guy.  

I liked the tidbit into Morgan's career.  "I did 18 months deep cover."  It kind of symbolizes that he's good at hiding things, like what happened to him in his past.  There were definitely hints throughout the first few seasons about the character's pasts.  Also, I did like that there was conflict in the agencies working together.  It's clear that not everyone is fan of the FBI.  

Also, knowing that this guy had over 100 unsolved murders in 15 years...is disturbing, but at least they finally caught him.  "A serial killer with a perfect career."  Damn.  I really like Morgan and Hotch as a team in this episode, it feels like they work well together, however, it makes me wonder when that changed.  Also, I liked the three man team of Reid, Elle, and Garcia.  And then there's Gideon, always on his own.  

Also, Garcia breaks the law again.  "Despite the fact that they are probably expungded you can find the faintest echo of deletion, successfully recreate the file, thereby sending us all to prison for computer felony fraud counts."

"We can make bail, Garcia?"

"Already in."

That's two episodes in a row.  I wonder if they were ever...I don't know...audited ...how that would go.  

Also, "Take your tie off for once in your life, huh?"  

"Antisocial personality disorder means never trust anyone with anything at any time."  That's interesting.  I love their dislike of the Baltimore cop wanting to beat the answer out of Vincent, and the hate for the cop that gave Vincent no reason to answer their questions.  Also, "Is it still paranoid if I'm right?"  They know better than that.  Also, interesting was Hotch's comment to Vincent, which I know there's been speculation on.  "Some people grow up to become killers...and some people grow up to catch them."  The look on Hotch's face at the end...it definitely felt that there was a reason he understood Vincent so well.  

Overall, the torture was hard to watch, but I liked the rest of it.  

I love Derailed.  I like Reid and Elle's scenes the most.  They work well together.   I was surprised that JJ questioned Hotch on letting Elle do Custodials so soon.  I liked getting into the other possible victims lives, as well as Bryer.  I thought that Reid's understanding of Bryer was a foreshadow, again, of his mother's issues.  I thought it was funny that Elle called Gideon dad, and I wonder what she was going to say to him before the phone cut out.  

It was interesting the moment that Gideon realizes that Elle is on that train, and Reid's immediate understanding of the Bryer from the facial tick, which I imagine he's used to seeing because of his mom.  "Higher authority" is rather interesting.  He was smart to handcuff Elle to the seat. 

That kid, "He's an example of progress?" I laughed.

Also, that one guy was planning to kill his ex, right?  He had a gun and the scene at the beginning indicated that.

I also loved the quiet way that Morgan told Reid that now wasn't the time for a ramble on a movie.  It compares quite differently to what they do nowadays.  I also liked that, in this episode, and in the past episodes, they ask Reid for his facts and statistics.

I loved the magic scene.  Reid's practicing the trick, Morgan's concern about Reid trying to put himself in danger rather than Reid.  "I'm not about to let you get on that train with an armed psychotic."  "We don't have any other choice, do we?"   Insisting that he doesn't care off the vest, and his frustration that Reid takes it off.  In this episode, I honestly believe that Morgan cares for Reid in a big brother way.

"You told me to believe."  After his speech about doctors and dentists having to 'insert chips on and off since the 1980s.

"Could you guys do me a favor?"

"Anything."

"Could at least one of you look like you're going to see me again."  I laughed.

Morgan looks at Hotch, "See you when you get back."

The look in Elle's eyes when she sees it's Reid, it's a good thing Bryer wasn't looking.  That kid just had to cause more problems for them.  

Again, loved Reid's connection with Bryer, and his slight fear that he might end up like that.  Also, loved the moment at the end between Elle and Spencer at the end.  

His conversation with Bryer was extremely telling.  "A responsibility to use your intelligence."

"Elle, don't ever call me dad again."

"How do you think he'd feel about mom?"

"Let me know when you're going to do that, so I can um...run."

"Um, Reid, you probably saved my life in there..."

"Probably?  I totally saved your life, and I'm pretty certain  thatit was caught on tape."

"You know what you said in there...to Bryer...that you know what it's like..."

"He was a delusional psychotic, I was playing into his fantasy.  Go to the hospital, I'll see you there."

 

Clearly, he wanted to avoid the conversation, but it was interesting, and it's more interesting now, knowing what we know about him.  

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JMO, I like your idea of Garcia, and what they were trying to do, but I do feel that it completely failed in that aspect.  She was perfectly fine in the beginning, even with her ego, it was when things changed to buffonish that she became too much for a lot of people.

ReidGirl, I'm glad you like that I've revived the old threads.  I haven't watched since they announced that Hotch was going into Witness Protection...whichever episode that was because I read spoilers about Reid getting another sad storyline, and decided I would watch it whenever I got the chance or motivation...at the moment, I just read the comments on the episodes.  Someday, I'll watch, but probably not untill the end of my rewatch.

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There's a lot to love about Derailed, and you've just named it. JJB (I'm lazy).  The relationships among the team members were still being delineated, and this went a long way in defining Reid's relationship with Elle and Morgan, and even Hotch.  I wonder how much of Reid's backstory the show had decided upon at that point, or if MGG had to keep things purposely vague.  I was a late (pre-season 7) arrival to CM, so I can't speak to it, but I wonder how the 'early adopters' interpreted Reid's comments to the schizophrenic unsub and to Elle, before knowing his mother's history.  Anyone?

I don't know why, except that there seemed to be a contrast with JJ's relationships with Garcia and Emily, but I've always had the sense that JJ and Elle tolerated each other, but didn't necessarily like, or understand, each other.  

JJB, since you're on a roll, it probably makes sense to go ahead and watch in order until you hit season 12.  You'll miss Hotch, as do many (or most) of us, but there is some goodness in the Reid arc.  Much missed opportunity, as is often the case, but goodness, nonetheless.  

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12 minutes ago, JMO said:

There's a lot to love about Derailed, and you've just named it. JJB (I'm lazy).  The relationships among the team members were still being delineated, and this went a long way in defining Reid's relationship with Elle and Morgan, and even Hotch.  I wonder how much of Reid's backstory the show had decided upon at that point, or if MGG had to keep things purposely vague.  I was a late (pre-season 7) arrival to CM, so I can't speak to it, but I wonder how the 'early adopters' interpreted Reid's comments to the schizophrenic unsub and to Elle, before knowing his mother's history.  Anyone?

I don't know why, except that there seemed to be a contrast with JJ's relationships with Garcia and Emily, but I've always had the sense that JJ and Elle tolerated each other, but didn't necessarily like, or understand, each other.  

JJB, since you're on a roll, it probably makes sense to go ahead and watch in order until you hit season 12.  You'll miss Hotch, as do many (or most) of us, but there is some goodness in the Reid arc.  Much missed opportunity, as is often the case, but goodness, nonetheless.  

Well, I am an extremely late comer, so I have no idea how many people caught his comments.  Also, I agree with you on JJ's relationship with Elle.  I think both JJ and Garcia tolerated Elle, but didn't really like her.  As if, she was the person at work that you sort of like, but won't miss when she's gone.  Also, I always tend to watch or even rewatch shows in order...I don't like skipping episodes for some reason.  And I've read that the Reid arc was good, but I decided to wait until I have finished my rewatch.

I wonder if anyone who was around since the beginning caught the comments?

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Now, onto the Popular Kids.  

I'm not a big fan of this episode.  I didn't like that Morgan broke Reid's trust, even for a good reason.  I didn't like the kid as the unsub or that his father was the lead investigator.  I didn't like the idea that he tried to set up the outcasts, and I didn't like that the police bought it.  I also didn't like that a bunch of kids would go to secret spot and watch a body decompose.  Satanic colt...interesting.  

I did love the interesting conversation of Morgan trying to figure out what would keep Reid awake at night.  That part was cute, and it led Reid to trusting Morgan.  Which was a bad idea.  "You had no right, man.  I confided in you.  You know this is exactly what I get when I trust someone.  It gets thrown back in my face."

It kind of foreshadows his anger at JJ in Season 7.  

However, I did like Morgan sharing with Reid.  Although, I did feel like he should have told him before Reid yelled at him.  Instead of telling Hotch and Gideon, he could have convinced Reid to tell them himself with that story about his nightmares.  I wonder if Morgan had nightmares again since her eyes were wide open, and he closed his eyes, like it was a big deal to him.  

I really liked the back and forth among the team, like Reid and Hotch on the plane talking about satanism issues.  Or the more comfortable switching as they talked through the profile giving it to the police.  They did the switch back and forth during the profile, which is different than it is now.  

I disliked the sheriff for asking "what kind of doctor, are you?" and neither JJ or Gideon saying something to him about the inappropriateness of it.  If you ask for someone's help, you shouldn't be insulting them.  I like Elle offering a hand to Reid up that hill, when no one else did.  Also, liked JJ knowing that bringing in the fact that she is from a small town to get the Sheriff to agree to using the locals, and the misdirect with the reverend and the Dent guy.  I also liked the contrast to Elle, "I grew up in Brooklynn, you couldn't get this many people out for anything less than free money."

I also do like the background change behind Reid as he was talking about the Mason family.  I also liked the tackle ...and I read the old TWOP forum that was archived, so I know that people considered Morgan as the "One who tackles".  I liked the back and forth switch between Gideon talking to the Sheriff and Morgan talking to Cory.  

Reid and Morgan working together to distract Cory to get him taken down, was funny.  Also, "No, I got that, did you have to tackle  us both?"

"You're welcome, Reid."

I did like Gideon's explanation to help with the dreams, and giving Reid the picture.  That's the Gideon I like.

Overall, never been a fan of this episode, and it didn't seem any better this time.  

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Reid used to reply with snarky comments which in later seasons disappeared altogether. Yup I love that scene where Elle gives a helping hand to Reid when JJ just walks ahead. Elle and Reid had such an amazing friendship.

I think Morgan tried to convince Reid about talking to Gideon or Hotch but clearly Reid was not ready to do that. I think that is the reason Morgan goes and talks to Hotch and Gideon so they can help him. He has always been protective of Reid so I think that was his way to make sure Reid gets the help he needs.

I always used to like Reid and Morgan as partners.

3 hours ago, JMO said:

Sorry for that, ReidGirl.  I'm still hanging in, hopeful of more fallout for Reid, and maybe some decent storyline for the more familiar cast members.  I won't watch enjoy the Reidless episodes, but I remain hopeful of the rest---including hoping that Reid and JJ don't climb down into 'The Bunker' and disappear for the rest of the episode!  

I am also hanging in there JMO, just for Reid at this point. I definitely wont be watching Reidless episodes. 

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1 minute ago, ReidGirl said:

Reid used to reply with snarky comments which in later seasons disappeared altogether. Yup I love that scene where Elle gives a helping hand to Reid when JJ just walks ahead. Elle and Reid had such an amazing friendship.

I think Morgan tried to convince Reid about talking to Gideon or Hotch but clearly Reid was not ready to do that. I think that is the reason Morgan goes and talks to Hotch and Gideon so they can help him. He has always been protective of Reid so I think that was his way to make sure Reid gets the help he needs.

I always used to like Reid and Morgan as partners.

So, you think there might have been a missing scene after the coffee scene, but before Hotch says something to Reid about nightmares?  One that would have shown Morgan trying to convince him, instead of jumping the gun and saying something after that little conversation with the coffee?  

And yes, I definitely forgot that Reid used to be snarky, and he used to get things, not everything, but wasn't blind to things.  Like, he definitely noticed what that Sheriff was thinking, yet, in the later seasons, it seems like he's oblivious to their remarks and such.  

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2 minutes ago, JenJenBosco said:

So, you think there might have been a missing scene after the coffee scene, but before Hotch says something to Reid about nightmares?  One that would have shown Morgan trying to convince him, instead of jumping the gun and saying something after that little conversation with the coffee?  

And yes, I definitely forgot that Reid used to be snarky, and he used to get things, not everything, but wasn't blind to things.  Like, he definitely noticed what that Sheriff was thinking, yet, in the later seasons, it seems like he's oblivious to their remarks and such.  

No, not a missing scene but I think Morgan tells Reid that he should talk to someone and Morgan is not the right person to talk to. But then Reid says that what if they think he is not fit for the job, so he clearly displays no desire to talk to either Hotch and Gideon. I think thats why Morgan goes behind his back and tells Hotch and Gideon. 

Ohh yes Reid used to notice so many things in earlier seasons. Later he was shown just as a fact spouting genius who was oblivious to everything else around him. Also in earlier seasons he used to laugh with the team, but in later seasons the team used to have laugh at his expense.

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Just now, ReidGirl said:

No, not a missing scene but I think Morgan tells Reid that he should talk to someone and Morgan is not the right person to talk to. But then Reid says that what if they think he is not fit for the job, so he clearly displays no desire to talk to either Hotch and Gideon. I think thats why Morgan goes behind his back and tells Hotch and Gideon. 

Ohh yes Reid used to notice so many things in earlier seasons. Later he was shown just as a fact spouting genius who was oblivious to everything else around him. Also in earlier seasons he used to laugh with the team, but in later seasons the team used to have laugh at his expense.

Oh, yes, he does tell Reid that he should talk to Hotch and Gideon, however, they get interrupted, so I feel like he should have at least tried one more time before talking to Hotch and Gideon.  Like, maybe he could be convinced after another conversation.  But that was just my perception, I thought that one conversation wasn't enough to assume that Reid couldn't be talked into talking to them.

And I agree about the rest of your post, they changed him, and not for the better.  It's hard to watch people mock him, and no one on the team says a damn thing.

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3 minutes ago, ReidGirl said:

Ohh yes Reid used to notice so many things in earlier seasons. Later he was shown just as a fact spouting genius who was oblivious to everything else around him. Also in earlier seasons he used to laugh with the team, but in later seasons the team used to have laugh at his expense.

I think it's been inconsistent.  There are times when he is portrayed as being sensitive to what's going on around him, and times when he's portrayed as clueless, even in recent seasons.  It comes across as the writers not having a good handle on the character, and falling back to a caricature.  The other characters have, to one degree or another, suffered from similar lapses in consistency.  My wish, realistic or not, is that, with a writing team of their size, they might have a writer who is deeply familiar with each character, who can adjust the character's actions and reactions to whatever is the given situation.  I think it would make for much more interesting storytelling.  

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9 minutes ago, JMO said:

I think it's been inconsistent.  There are times when he is portrayed as being sensitive to what's going on around him, and times when he's portrayed as clueless, even in recent seasons.  It comes across as the writers not having a good handle on the character, and falling back to a caricature.  The other characters have, to one degree or another, suffered from similar lapses in consistency.  My wish, realistic or not, is that, with a writing team of their size, they might have a writer who is deeply familiar with each character, who can adjust the character's actions and reactions to whatever is the given situation.  I think it would make for much more interesting storytelling.  

I absolutely think you are completely right, JMO.  I just notice it more with Reid, I guess.  On the same note, I really wish they had one person for each member of the team, who could go over what their character is saying and doing, and be like, "that's not consistent" but sadly, that is not the case.  

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Waching since day one, but I can't remember what crossed my mind when Reid made those comments about schizophrenia. It's an interesting question JMO.

I love season 1 deeply. I love the interaction between characters and the way actors played them. Obviously, it wasn't perfect all the time, but it was good enough to let some things slide.

About García, JJ and Elle, you are right, I think they dislike her and I found it very interesting and realistic. Elle had great relationships with her team and I do think she didn't consider JJ or García a part of the team, just accesories. I love Elle more than the other female agents, even above Prentiss 1.0.

Probably Morgan is the one character I've never liked no matter what. There are very few moments where I don't dislike him in the whole series.

Agree about García and her behabior JJB (if you don't mind and thanks JMO), a lot of airtime and turning her in a caricature killed the character. Sadly, this has been a recurrent issue to other characters, I think part of the problem is their friendship with EM, because it's evident JM, KV or  AJ Cook have cooked their characters including a lot of things of their real persona being García the most unpleasant to look at. 

 

1 hour ago, JMO said:

My wish, realistic or not, is that, with a writing team of their size, they might have a writer who is deeply familiar with each character, who can adjust the character's actions and reactions to whatever is the given situation.  I think it would make for much more interesting storytelling.  

Amen.

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Bloody Hungry brings up an interesting conversation:  What is a parent willing to do for their children?  Also, it brings up; What are you willing to do to keep up appearances?  

Self-preservation can really be a problem sometimes, like this case.

Gideon on crutches was hilarious, I liked the conversation when he explained what happened to land him on the crutches, and I liked aspect of the members being helpful even when they aren't in the field.  Gracia's reaction to Gideon in her office was interesting.  She politely suggested he'd be better off in his office, but he wasn't having it.  "You can have him back whenever you would like."

Hey, Lucky wasn't the first time that cannibalism has come up.  For some reason, I forgot that it was part of this episode too.  

I did like the brothers, it was cute the way that the older brother defended the younger brother.  It's nice that they care so much about each other.  

Is this the first time Morgan's not in a suit?  He looks better in a suit.  I liked the switch up between the members.  First, it was Reid and Elle, Morgan and Hotch, then Morgan and Elle, Reid and Hotch.  It's nice that's variation.  

I liked Hotch's shut down of the doctor.  "A Jury might agree with you, but right now he needs to answer some questions because there's a little boy we need to find."  He puts the innocent's needs first, which is more important.  

I like Morgan's comment on GPS, "These things could cause more divorces than internet porn."

"You know, Mary, sometimes it's the things we don't do rather than the things we do."  Interesting statement.  

I do like the last scene.

"Now, i have to go back to the 15 folders on my desk."

"15?  I have 24."

"That's because I slipped you for of mine on Friday."

Do you think Gideon kept in touch with his son after reaching out to him?  Also, I liked that Hotch encouraged him to at least try, it makes me wish that Reid's father had done the same.

Overall, I didn't like this episode either.  What do you guys think?

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10 minutes ago, smoker said:

Waching since day one, but I can't remember what crossed my mind when Reid made those comments about schizophrenia. It's an interesting question JMO.

I love season 1 deeply. I love the interaction between characters and the way actors played them. Obviously, it wasn't perfect all the time, but it was good enough to let some things slide.

About García, JJ and Elle, you are right, I think they dislike her and I found it very interesting and realistic. Elle had great relationships with her team and I do think she didn't consider JJ or García a part of the team, just accesories. I love Elle more than the other female agents, even above Prentiss 1.0.

Probably Morgan is the one character I've never liked no matter what. There are very few moments where I don't dislike him in the whole series.

Agree about García and her behabior JJB (if you don't mind and thanks JMO), a lot of airtime and turning her in a caricature killed the character. Sadly, this has been a recurrent issue to other characters, I think part of the problem is their friendship with EM, because it's evident JM, KV or  AJ Cook have cooked their characters including a lot of things of their real persona being García the most unpleasant to look at. 

 

Amen.

Ahhh, I see.  It's alot to ask what you thought about comments on a TV show from 12 years ago.  And yes, season one is the best for the character interactions, at least I think so.  

I also agree that it's very realistic for Elle not to be close to the other girls because they were accessories to the team.  I feel the same way.  If they had left or been killed off or something, I wouldn't haven noticed.  In episodes where either of them aren't there, I don't even notice.  And that continues even passed JJ's departure in season 6.  Even in season 11, I was more relieved that she was gone than anything.  Actually, in Blood Hungry, I forgot JJ even existed until she showed up towards the end.  

On a different note, I think Elle might be my favorite as well, but I'm not entirely sure.  I know I noticed the lack of her presence when she left even after Emily joined the team.

Also, I don't mind the short version of my forum name at all.

Also, Smoker, out of curiosity, why didn't you like Morgan?  

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4 minutes ago, smoker said:

Its a bit long but I promise I'll further elavorate tomorrow

Okay, Cool.  Thanks, I'm just curious.  I like hearing different reasons for liking or disliking characters, especially long running characters.

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7 hours ago, JenJenBosco said:

I also thought it had an interesting lead into Reid's mom's problems when he mentions everyone being medicated these days.  It's also the first time Garcia breaks into medical records and mentions it.  "Yeah, we'll both go to prison and you'll be someone's bitch."  Reid; "Really?"

I remember last season, I'd seen a gif set somewhere where somebody had put that conversation between Garcia and Reid up against images of Reid in prison. Let out quite the dark laugh at that. 

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I liked the tidbit into Morgan's career.  "I did 18 months deep cover."  It kind of symbolizes that he's good at hiding things, like what happened to him in his past.  There were definitely hints throughout the first few seasons about the character's pasts.  Also, I did like that there was conflict in the agencies working together.  It's clear that not everyone is fan of the FBI.  

I'd always wished the show had done more with Morgan's undercover experience during his time on the show, both in learning more about those 18 months themselves, and seeing him relying on that prior experience while going undercover on a new case. I think that could've made for some very interesting storylines for him. 

Good comment about the BAU constantly going up against other government agencies, too. That sort of conflict makes for a particularly intriguing contrast when you consider the times when the team manages to get on well with the local law enforcement officials of the various towns they go to. 

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Also, that one guy was planning to kill his ex, right?  He had a gun and the scene at the beginning indicated that.

I think so, yeah. Makes me wish we could've gotten some idea of what happened to those people on the train afterward. 

I too love "Derailed", for all the reasons you note. Especially everything with Reid and Elle. I really like the friendship they had in general, and that episode was a great example of that in action. 

As for JJ and Garcia's interaction, or lack thereof, with Elle, I honestly don't think they disliked her. I think she just seemed to click better with the guys in general, and she wasn't really the sort for "ladies' nights out" the way Emily is, and she didn't have as much in common with JJ and Garcia*, so they just didn't bond as much as a result. And then when she closed herself off after the events of "Fisher King", that obviously made it harder for anyone to try and connect with her, too. But they did respect her, and had their friendly moments here and there. 

*Having said that, however, had Elle stuck around longer, I actually could've seen her and JJ forging a bit of a friendship with time. They've both got a tough streak in them (and the job seemed to bring that side of JJ out more and more as time went on), they can both be very blunt in the way they talk sometimes, stuff like that, so maybe with time they might've come to realize they had more in common than they initially thought. 

 

5 hours ago, JenJenBosco said:

I didn't like the kid as the unsub or that his father was the lead investigator.  I didn't like the idea that he tried to set up the outcasts, and I didn't like that the police bought it.  I also didn't like that a bunch of kids would go to secret spot and watch a body decompose.  

See, I found all of that interesting, simply because I've watched more than enough true crime shows where similar things have happened, so it reads as tragically realistic, frustrating, and disturbing. Especially the part where the town was so quick to assume that group of goth-esque kids had to be the guilty people, instead of looking at the preppy, seemingly "innocent-looking" kids. 

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I did love the interesting conversation of Morgan trying to figure out what would keep Reid awake at night.  That part was cute, and it led Reid to trusting Morgan.  Which was a bad idea.  "You had no right, man.  I confided in you.  You know this is exactly what I get when I trust someone.  It gets thrown back in my face."

It kind of foreshadows his anger at JJ in Season 7.  

This is an excellent point. I hadn't really thought about those similarities, but you're right, they're clear as day. I did like that Morgan was so determined to try and help Reid, though, even if I too agree that Reid did have a right to be upset with him. It's a good way to show early on that Morgan's coming to see Reid less as a mere colleague and more as a little brother sort. 

(Re: the whole thing of the team mocking Reid, I honestly don't see their comments towards him in recent years as "mocking" him. I think it's meant to be mere good-natured joshing of the sort they've done with him since the beginning, and I think Reid realizes that's what it is. Just that sometimes, depending on how it's written, it might read harsher than intended. But I don't feel it's being written/done as a deliberate attempt to be mean to him or anything like that.)

And I like Morgan opening up about his own experience with seeing that woman's eyes. Nice bit of honesty and vulnerability from him there, and I especially like how he acknowledges the way it changed his cocky attitude about things. Plus, I just always find the moments when the team discusses the nightmares and haunting memories this job brings fascinating. It gives us such great, poignant insight into them as characters, especially in regards to how they deal (or don't deal) with those traumatic moments and keep forging on. 

And it's also very relateable, because I know if I did this sort of work for a living I'd be having some intense nightmares, too, for sure. 

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Also, liked JJ knowing that bringing in the fact that she is from a small town to get the Sheriff to agree to using the locals, and the misdirect with the reverend and the Dent guy.  I also liked the contrast to Elle, "I grew up in Brooklynn, you couldn't get this many people out for anything less than free money."

Also a great observation that I never really thought about. The "big city/small town" divide and attitudes mesh well with the "This is a God-fearing town, this sort of thing can't possibly happen here! It can't be one of our own!" mindset that runs throughout the episode. 

I love "Popular Kids" myself, largely but I can see where it might not be everyone's bag. 

2 hours ago, JenJenBosco said:

Gideon on crutches was hilarious, I liked the conversation when he explained what happened to land him on the crutches, and I liked aspect of the members being helpful even when they aren't in the field.  Gracia's reaction to Gideon in her office was interesting.  She politely suggested he'd be better off in his office, but he wasn't having it.  "You can have him back whenever you would like."

LOL, yeah, all of that was great :D. Poor Garcia, getting all finnicky about her space-but honestly, I can't say I blame her, really. I wouldn't really like people messing about with my work space, either. 

I love how they continue with Gideon's attempts to make it up to her in future episodes, too. But we'll discuss that when you get to that point :p. 

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Hey, Lucky wasn't the first time that cannibalism has come up.  For some reason, I forgot that it was part of this episode too.  

Yeah, kinda unsettling to realize that topic's come up more than once on here, isn't it? It's not a super common crime, thank god, but one cannibal killer is one too many. 

And on that note, I think that's why I'm not all that bothered by Garcia's freaked out reaction to the cases even to this day. I don't argue that some of her reaction can be chalked up to bad writing and whatnot, yes, but it doesn't surprise me that even after doing this job for thirteen years, there's still cases and images that will ick her out. Real life detectives have said as much after all, talking about how they've worked crimes for 25, 30 years and yet they'll still come across a crime scene that was "the worst they'd ever seen", or something to that effect. I think there are just some types of crimes that, no matter how many times you deal with them, you'll never fully be able to get used to handling them. 

I also feel that Garcia's attitude makes sense when you consider that the changes in her job and what she's been through and witnessed over the years have eroded a lot of the distance between herself and the cases. Early on in the show, she was able to stay back in her little office and that was that, so while she did indeed read about and see video of some really horrible stuff, all she had to do to get rid of it was to shut down her computer. 

But since then, she's moved to actually presenting the cases and having to relay all the initial details right up front alongside whatever further research she does while the case is ongoing, she's actually been out in the field a few times as well, and she's been shot and been a firsthand witness to her friends and their families being put in life-threatening peril as well. There's not as much, if any, of a wall between her and the crimes anymore. So I can totally see that shaking any cool "I can handle this" demeanor she might've once had as a result. 

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Do you think Gideon kept in touch with his son after reaching out to him?  Also, I liked that Hotch encouraged him to at least try, it makes me wish that Reid's father had done the same.

If "Nelson's Sparrow" is any indication, I imagine he did. I like to think so, both because I like the idea of Gideon and his son being able to patch things up in general and Gideon even learning with time to lean on his son as he struggles to deal with all he's been through, and also because after leaving such a dark line of work, I think it makes sense he'd want to focus on something much happier, like reconnecting with a loved one. 

(Plus, if he had any guilt over how he left things with Reid, perhaps that might've added to his motivation to continue to make things right with Stephen. Hm. Getting a possible story idea from that now.)

I like your point about Hotch being the one to encourage Gideon to reconnect with his son. That's so fitting, considering Hotch's own determination over the years to be there for Jack. 

And yeah, I wish Reid had had that same sort of luck, too. I don't expect it to be happening anytime soon, if ever, but it'd be interesting if Reid's dad reappeared on the show sometime, especially given all he and his mom have recently been through. I'd be curious to see how Reid would respond to that. 

Enjoying your thoughts, Jen! Keep 'em coming :D. 

Edited by Annber03
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11 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

I remember last season, I'd seen a gif set somewhere where somebody had put that conversation between Garcia and Reid up against images of Reid in prison. Let out quite the dark laugh at that. 

I'd always wished the show had done more with Morgan's undercover experience during his time on the show, both in learning more about those 18 months themselves, and seeing him relying on that prior experience while going undercover on a new case. I think that could've made for some very interesting storylines for him. 

Good comment about the BAU constantly going up against other government agencies, too. That conflict makes for quite an intriguing contrast when you consider the times when the team manages to get on well with the local law enforcement officials of the various towns they go to. 

I think so, yeah. Makes me wish we could've gotten some idea of what happened to those people on the train afterward. 

I too love "Derailed", for all the reasons you note. Especially everything with Reid and Elle. I really like the friendship they had in general, and that episode was a great example of that in action. 

As for JJ and Garcia's interaction, or lack thereof, with Elle, I honestly don't think they disliked her. I think she just seemed to click better with the guys in general, and she wasn't really the sort for "ladies' nights out" the way Emily is, and she didn't have as much in common with JJ and Garcia*, so they just didn't bond as much as a result. And then when she closed herself off after the events of "Fisher King", that obviously made it harder for anyone to try and connect with her, too. But they did respect her, and had their friendly moments here and there. 

*Having said that, however, had Elle stuck around longer, I actually could've seen her and JJ forging a bit of a friendship with time. They've both got a tough streak in them (and the job seemed to bring that side of JJ out more and more as time went on), they can both be very blunt in the way they talk sometimes, stuff like that, so maybe with time they might've come to realize they had more in common than they initially thought. 

 

See, I found all of that interesting, simply because I've watched more than enough true crime shows where similar things have happened, so it reads as tragically realistic, frustrating, and disturbing. Especially the fact that the town was so quick to assume that group of goth-esque kids had to be the guilty people, instead of looking at the preppy, seemingly "innocent-looking" kids. 

This is an excellent point. I hadn't really thought about those similarities, but you're right, they're clear as day. I did like that Morgan was so determined to try and help Reid, though, even if I too agree that Reid did have a right to be upset with him. It's a good way to show early on that Morgan's coming to see Reid less as a mere colleague and more as a little brother sort. 

(Re: the whole thing of the team mocking Reid, I honestly don't see their comments towards him in recent years as "mocking" him. I think it's meant to be mere good-natured joshing of the sort they've done with him since the beginning, and I think Reid realizes that's what it is. Just that sometimes, depending on how it's written, it might read harsher than intended. But I don't feel it's being written/done as a deliberate attempt to be mean to him or anything like that.)

And I like Morgan opening up about his own experience with seeing that woman's eyes. Nice bit of honesty and vulnerability from him there, and I especially like how he acknowledges the way it changed his cocky attitude about things. Plus, I just always find the moments when the team discusses the nightmares and haunting memories this job brings fascinating. It gives us such great, poignant insight into them as characters, especially in regards to how they deal (or don't deal) with those traumatic moments and keep forging on. 

And it's also very relateable, because I know if I did this sort of work for a living I'd be having some intense nightmares, too, for sure. 

Also a great observation that I never really thought about. The "big city/small town" divide and attitudes mesh well with the "This is a God-fearing town, this sort of thing can't possibly happen here! It can't be one of our own!" mindset that runs throughout the episode. 

I love "Popular Kids" myself, largely but I can see where it might not be everyone's bag. 

LOL, yeah, all of that was great :D. Poor Garcia, getting all finnicky about her space-but honestly, I can't say I blame her, really. I wouldn't really like people messing about with my work space, either. 

I love how they continue with Gideon's attempts to make it up to her in future episodes, too. But we'll discuss that when you get to that point :p. 

Yeah, kinda unsettling to realize that topic's come up more than once on here, isn't it? It's not a super common crime, thank god, but one cannibal killer is one too many, really. 

And on that note, I think that's why I'm not all that bothered by Garcia's freaked out reaction to the cases even to this day. I don't argue that some of her reaction can be chalked up to bad writing and whatnot, yes, but it doesn't surprise me that even after doing this job for thirteen years, there's still cases and images that will ick her out. Real life detectives have said as much after all, talking about how they've worked crimes for 25, 30 years and yet they'll still come across a crime scene that was "the worst they'd ever seen", or something to that effect. I think there are just some types of crimes that, no matter how many times you deal with them, you'll never fully be able to get used to handling them. 

I also feel that Garcia's attitude makes sense when you consider that the changes in her job and what she's been through and witnessed over the years have eroded a lot of the distance between herself and the cases. Early on in the show, she was able to stay back in her little office and that was that, so while she did indeed read about and see video of some really horrible stuff, all she had to do to get rid of it was to shut down her computer. 

But since then, she's moved to actually presenting the cases and having to relay all the initial details right up front alongside whatever further research she does while the case is ongoing, she's actually been out in the field a few times as well, and she's been shot and been a firsthand witness to her friends and their families being put in life-threatening peril as well. There's not as much, if any, of a wall between her and the crimes anymore. So I can totally see that shaking any cool "I can handle this" demeanor she might've once had as a result. 

If "Nelson's Sparrow" is any indication, I imagine he did. I like to think so, both because I like the idea of Gideon and his son being able to patch things up in general and Gideon even learning with time to lean on his son as he struggles to deal with all he's been through, and also because after leaving such a dark line of work, I think it makes sense he'd want to focus on something much happier, like reconnecting with a loved one. 

(Plus, if he had any guilt over how he left things with Reid, perhaps that might've added to his motivation to continue to make things right with Stephen. Hm. Getting a possible story idea from that now.)

I like your point about Hotch being the one to encourage Gideon to reconnect with his son. That's so fitting, considering Hotch's own determination over the years to be there for Jack. 

And yeah, I wish Reid had had that same sort of luck, too. I don't expect it to be happening anytime soon, if ever, but it'd be interesting if Reid's dad reappeared on the show sometime, especially given all he and his mom have recently been through. I'd be curious to see how Reid would respond to that. 

Enjoying your thoughts, Jen! Keep 'em coming :D. 

I like your thoughts.  It's interesting to have a different perspective on both Garcia and Reid above.  I am not sure I agree on Garcia, however, I have my moments where I am not sure if the team is mocking him, but I also have my moments where I think they are.  I guess it just depends on the scene reads to me, and you're right, I don't think it's supposed to come across as the team treating him poorly, but it can come across that way.  Depending.

I also agree on your notes regarding Elle and the girls.  With time, I could see that happen.  

As for Gideon, I do think that Nelson's Sparrow could support the theory that Gideon kept in touch with his son.

I also think William Reid coming back would be interesting for Spencer, but I think it would have been better if that had happened while he was in prison.  Somehow, coming back to support him when he needed it the most.

I also appreciate that people have different opinions on the show and the episodes.  It's what makes discussion interesting.  Also, you're right about the disturbing-ness of having more than one episode on that subject.  

Thanks :) I don't know if I'll be able to do much until the weekend, as I commute a long way every day, but I will.

Also, If anyone wants to join me, the next episode is "What Fresh Hell".

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48 minutes ago, JenJenBosco said:

I like your thoughts.  It's interesting to have a different perspective on both Garcia and Reid above.  I am not sure I agree on Garcia, however, I have my moments where I am not sure if the team is mocking him, but I also have my moments where I think they are.  I guess it just depends on the scene reads to me, and you're right, I don't think it's supposed to come across as the team treating him poorly, but it can come across that way.  Depending.

Yeah, that whole thing with Garcia was mainly just a potential theory that came to mind that I threw out there. I won't say that it's THE explanation or anything like that, and I can see where that would have its own flaws as well that people might object to (after all, given all she's witnessed, one could argue that should harden her more than anything else, too). But I dunno. It's something to think about, at least. 

And yeah, I think context can definitely factor into how people view some of those comments as well. Was the person already in a bad mood about other things when they said something harsh? Were they trying to be playful and crossed a line? Stuff like that. It can be tough to tell sometimes, sure. 

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I also think William Reid coming back would be interesting for Spencer, but I think it would have been better if that had happened while he was in prison.  Somehow, coming back to support him when he needed it the most.

Agreed. That would've proven his desire to really change, and be there through the tough times. If he came back now, I could definitely see Reid being wary, and wondering why he didn't respond sooner. 

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I also appreciate that people have different opinions on the show and the episodes.  It's what makes discussion interesting.  Also, you're right about the disturbing-ness of having more than one episode on that subject.  

Thanks :) I don't know if I'll be able to do much until the weekend, as I commute a long way every day, but I will.

Also, If anyone wants to join me, the next episode is "What Fresh Hell".

 

And sadly, that's how it is in real life, too. I think it's near impossible to find one lone example of a certain type of crime, unfortunately. The police procedural genre as a whole will certainly not run out of real life cases and situations to be inspired by anytime soon :/. 

On a significantly lighter note, glad to be in agreement on some stuff here :D! And I like that even in the moments when people disagree here, we can all still be respectful in sharing our opinions. And I like when people can get me to consider points I might not have otherwise thought about, and see things in a new or different way. 

And LOL, yeah, totally understandable! Whenever you've got the time free is fine :). 

Edited by Annber03
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On 6/11/2017 at 1:55 AM, JenJenBosco said:

Also, Smoker, out of curiosity, why didn't you like Morgan?  

At the begining Morgan was only the less attractive character. We said something about Reid and schizophrenia yesterday and I couldn't remember a thing about it. However, I remember when they started to give away intell about Morgan's past and I never bought it. I get some characters in these type of series are vague and writers build up their personality adding traits here and there, season by season even.  Although this show seems to have an urge to switch its characters inside out (sorry, I had to say it).

Coming back to Morgan, I think season 2 was Morgan's season. My problem is I never saw anything in season 1 which gave me a clue about Morgan's background and Shemar More isn't so good of an actor that I could buy he was just keeping a facade to cover his troubled past. If you add his acting skills to Morgan's personality during season 1 plus some really ugly behavior towards others, specially Hotch.  I just can't stand the character.

Firstly, I liked when he wore a suit to work, I'm ok with a more relaxed attire from time to time, Rossi isn't wearing suits, but he isn't wearing t-shirts either. I don't think a BAU team needs muscle guys or girls, it's great they are/were young and capable but they are specialized analysts, they used locals and SWAT teams often in first seasons. And don't get me wrong, I liked he was a cop and all that, but his attitude was perfect to the QB 1, that story he gave Reid about being frail in High school I can't swallow it.

I really hate his partnership with JJ. She became some kind of minion. Sorry, I am rambling.

Anyway, some examples of his attitude:

-there are several cases which he despises and his attitude towards his coworkers is mean, rude and childish when they want to work those cases,. Moreover, he never apologizes when it's obvious he was wrong. Prentiss (demonology), Reid, JJ (Legacy, Mosley Lane, the case where several people commit suicide - episode 3x15) and Garcia were treat badly by him more than once.

-He insist on Hotch calling Haley and tell her about a bomb when it's evident Hotch is uncomfortable about it. I don't know why but it went under my skin.

-Insubordination and disloyalty: Lo-Fi and Mayhem; Hopeless, Cradle to Grave, season 6 premiere, the one in Miami with Tia Texada.

-Hypocrisy: The Eyes Have It, season 6 premiere

I haven't could search all the titles but those episodes are the most representative anyway.

Edited by smoker
some grammar mistakes, sorry
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On 05/11/2017 at 2:23 PM, JMO said:

I don't remember if 'Exit Wounds' in season five was her first time accompanying the team in the field, but I think so.

It wasn't- Garcia accompanied the team into the field in "Risky Business", eight episodes prior. Her only role in that episode (from a narrative perspective) was to gain rapport from the UnSub's kid, which she did since both were "weirdos".

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21 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Yeah, that whole thing with Garcia was mainly just a potential theory that came to mind that I threw out there. I won't say that it's THE explanation or anything like that, and I can see where that would have its own flaws as well that people might object to (after all, given all she's witnessed, one could argue that should harden her more than anything else, too). But I dunno. It's something to think about, at least. 

And yeah, I think context can definitely factor into how people view some of those comments as well. Was the person already in a bad mood about other things when they said something harsh? Were they trying to be playful and crossed a line? Stuff like that. It can be tough to tell sometimes, sure. 

Agreed. That would've proven his desire to really change, and be there through the tough times. If he came back now, I could definitely see Reid being wary, and wondering why he didn't respond sooner. 

And sadly, that's how it is in real life, too. I think it's near impossible to find one lone example of a certain type of crime, unfortunately. The police procedural genre as a whole will certainly not run out of real life cases and situations to be inspired by anytime soon :/. 

On a significantly lighter note, glad to be in agreement on some stuff here :D! And I like that even in the moments when people disagree here, we can all still be respectful in sharing our opinions. And I like when people can get me to consider points I might not have otherwise thought about, and see things in a new or different way. 

And LOL, yeah, totally understandable! Whenever you've got the time free is fine :). 

21 hours ago, Annber03 said:

 

I like your theory, I don't agree with it, but I like the idea of the possibility.  However, my problem is that I honestly believe her inability to deal with the cases is a problem, I honestly think if she's having that much of a problem ALL of the time, she needs help and a new job.

I do think my mood has something to do with it, but I also think that it depends on Reid in the scene.  If he is clueless, and they are laughing at him, then it's mocking him because he isn't laughing and it's usually about something that is part of who he is.  If he's seen acknowledging it (I.E. a scene with Kate taking the bait for some fact he wanted to talk about in season 10) then it's light teasing and playful.  If Reid looks upset or doesn't respond at all, (i.e. the "He's so lifelike" scene), then it's mocking.  If Reid is seen getting back at them (i.e. Reid throwing the whistle back at Morgan) it's playful and teasing.  The problem I have is that in the later seasons, he seems clueless and it comes across as them mocking him because he's unaware. However, I understand your point of view.  

Also, I am glad we can be in agreement as well :) I like hearing different point of views, and the same point of views as well.

Edited by JenJenBosco
double of same qoute
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1 hour ago, smoker said:

At the begining Morgan was only the less attractive character. We said something about Reid and schizophrenia yesterday and I couldn't remember a thing about it. However, I remember when they started to give away intell about Morgan's past and I never bought it. I get some characters in these type of series are vague and writers build up their personality adding traits here and there, season by season even.  Although this show seems to have an urge to switch its characters inside out (sorry, I had to say it).

Coming back to Morgan, I think season 2 was Morgan's season. My problem is I never saw in season 1 anything which gave me a clue about Morgan's background and Shemar More isn't so good of an actor that I could buy he was just keeping a facade to cover his troubled past. If you add his acting skills to Morgan's personality during season 1 plus some really ugly behavior towards others, specially Hotch.  I just can't stand the character.

Firstly, I liked when he wore a suit to work, I'm ok with a more relaxed attire from time to time, Rossi isn't wearing suits, but he isn't wearing t-shirts either. I don't think a BAU team needs muscle guys or girls, it's great they are/were young and capable but they are specialized analysts, they used locals and SWAT teams often in first seasons. And don't get me wrong, I liked he was a cop and all that, but his attitude was perfect to the QB 1, that story he gave Reid about being frail in High school I can't swallow it.

I really hate his partnership with JJ. She became some kind of minion. Sorry, I am rambling.

Anyway, some examples of his attitude:

-there are several cases which he despises and his attitude towards his coworkers when they want to work the case he is mean, rude and childish the whole time. Moreover, he never apologizes when it's obvious he was wrong. Prentiss (demonology), Reid, JJ (Legacy, Mosley Lane, the case where several people commit suicide) and Garcia were treat badly by him more than once.

-He insist on Hotch calling Haley and tell her about a bomb when it's evident Hotch is uncomfortable about it. I don't know why but it went under my skin.

-Insubordination and disloyalty: Lo-Fi and Mayhem; Hopeless, Cradle to Grave, season 6 premiere, the one in Miami with Tia Texada.

-Hypocrisy: The Eyes Have It, season 6 premiere

I haven't could search all the titles but those episodes are the most representative anyway.

I agree with you on alot of your points about Morgan.  I don't know if  I am a fan or not of him, in the sense that, he has his moments, mainly with Reid.  Alot of times, I feel like it depends on who he is paired with.  When he's with JJ, I definitely don't like him.  When he's with Garcia...early seasons...maybe ...later seasons, god no.  I noticed the insubordination and disloyalty though, for me, it bugged me that he didn't support Reid in Proof because there is no way in hell he didn't understand how hard it was for someone with trust issues (just like him) could be struggling.  But I'll get there.  

I also agree that I saw him as the possibility of being one of the high school football team bullies that picked on Reid, which is why it took a while to see that possibility of big brother...I see it better now.  I definitely did not see any signs of Morgan's background that was exposed in season 2 in the first season, and it honestly barely shows up later on...when it should show.  I feel like with Reid (I should probably come up with another team member to use since I always use him) it was pretty obvious with little things throughout season 1 that he had some sort of connection to the illness of his mother.  Every time it comes up, it's obvious.  Whereas with Morgan, I don't see his past showing through, even on cases where it should.

I also dislike Morgan forcing Hotch to make the call was wrong as well.  They have a job to do, protocol, and to me, it was wrong that he tried to get Hotch to break that.  Especially, when Reid, who was dying, still put protocol first in Amplification.  He didn't hesitate.  As an agent of the law, that's what is their responsibility to do.

I am curious though, what are some of the most ugly behavior for you that Morgan has done?  I can think of some bad decisions, but never thought...ugly.  Although, I'll keep an eye out in the episodes you mentioned.

Also, thanks for replying!

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Quote

I think she just seemed to click better with the guys in general, and she wasn't really the sort for "ladies' nights out" the way Emily is, and she didn't have as much in common with JJ and Garcia*, so they just didn't bond as much as a result.

I really liked Elle and Morgan’s friendship in S1, actually. I think they were squabbling in the car in Charm and Harm, and then of course their ill-fated vacation in The Fisher King. (Although I don’t understand why people would spend their time off with co-workers. I get along with mine very well but if I had to spend vacation time with them, I would probably turn into an UNSUB myself.) 

I also liked Elle and Reid’s friendship. 

I guess I just really like pre-PTSD!Elle. 

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This thread is becoming more and more interesting!! Thanks for "reopening" it JJB,and everybody else for sharing your opinions. Only problem, you write so much, when I want to comment on something I can't find it and it feels old already!!

I agree with some things, I don't agree with some other things but it is always very interesting to look at episodes, characters, plots ... through different eyes. 

Anyway, someone said that the first time Garcia joined the team in the field was in season 5, and I don't think that is correct, she joined them in Revelations, and that is season 2. I don't remember if we had seen her outside of her "lair" before, but she was in Hankel's house with the rest of the team.  

Second problem with this thread: it makes me want to rewatch the episodes you are commenting on all the time, and I just can't, days have got only 24 hours!!

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I think relationships with Elle were always good. Moreover I've remembered Prentiss had to make an effort to gain people's trust. Hotch and Gideon didn't want her there, and this is my particular view, she couldn't talk to them the same way Elle did in season 1. They knew there was something wrong about her promotion, and they were right hehe. 

One thing I didn't like about Elle was she and Morgan had a too-similar background, I am not sure (about Elle), but I think they were both cops before joined the FBI, both of their parents were city cops and killed in the line of duty at young age...  I would like to know if it was done on purpose or  writers were a bit lazy.

Edited by smoker
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18 hours ago, JenJenBosco said:

I agree with you on alot of your points about Morgan.  I don't know if  I am a fan or not of him, in the sense that, he has his moments, mainly with Reid.  Alot of times, I feel like it depends on who he is paired with.  When he's with JJ, I definitely don't like him.  When he's with Garcia...early seasons...maybe ...later seasons, god no.  I noticed the insubordination and disloyalty though, for me, it bugged me that he didn't support Reid in Proof because there is no way in hell he didn't understand how hard it was for someone with trust issues (just like him) could be struggling.  But I'll get there.  

I also agree that I saw him as the possibility of being one of the high school football team bullies that picked on Reid, which is why it took a while to see that possibility of big brother...I see it better now.  I definitely did not see any signs of Morgan's background that was exposed in season 2 in the first season, and it honestly barely shows up later on...when it should show.  I feel like with Reid (I should probably come up with another team member to use since I always use him) it was pretty obvious with little things throughout season 1 that he had some sort of connection to the illness of his mother.  Every time it comes up, it's obvious.  Whereas with Morgan, I don't see his past showing through, even on cases where it should.

I also dislike Morgan forcing Hotch to make the call was wrong as well.  They have a job to do, protocol, and to me, it was wrong that he tried to get Hotch to break that.  Especially, when Reid, who was dying, still put protocol first in Amplification.  He didn't hesitate.  As an agent of the law, that's what is their responsibility to do.

I am curious though, what are some of the most ugly behavior for you that Morgan has done?  I can think of some bad decisions, but never thought...ugly.  Although, I'll keep an eye out in the episodes you mentioned.

Also, thanks for replying!

You're welcome! It's been a pleasure :D

 

maybe ugly isn't the right word, I don't know if it sounds weird or like child talk xP 

those episodes aren't about a bad choice, on Morgan's part at least, they are about him being a dick. Although there are some episodes where we can see both things.

His behavior towards Prentiss in Demonology was awful, you don't treat a friend or a trusted coworker like that. He tends to do that, he treats people like shit when they are in a vulnerable place, emotional (Prentiss, Garcia, Hotch, Reid) or professional (JJ, Hotch, local cops).

If I were JJ I wouldn't have worked by his side 5 minutes, he is a D-bag and a bully, I'm thinking of him and Rossi laughing at Reid... :(

I am not going to say I hate everything about Morgan, but I hate a lot.

I liked Zugzwang, not the whole episode but I love Hotch and Morgan scenes with Reid. I think it was a missed opportunity for Hotch and Reid friendship (but that's another story). The way Morgan   

Spoiler

cut Diane Turner off when she was playing the worried girlfriend was great, he saw her a mile away and

watched over his friend and gave him his support.

Edited by smoker
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7 hours ago, senin said:

This thread is becoming more and more interesting!! Thanks for "reopening" it JJB,and everybody else for sharing your opinions. Only problem, you write so much, when I want to comment on something I can't find it and it feels old already!!

I agree with some things, I don't agree with some other things but it is always very interesting to look at episodes, characters, plots ... through different eyes. 

Anyway, someone said that the first time Garcia joined the team in the field was in season 5, and I don't think that is correct, she joined them in Revelations, and that is season 2. I don't remember if we had seen her outside of her "lair" before, but she was in Hankel's house with the rest of the team.  

Second problem with this thread: it makes me want to rewatch the episodes you are commenting on all the time, and I just can't, days have got only 24 hours!!

You're more than welcome to address the other stuff, it's not that old!  Also, I can try to write less and I don't have much time to watch, so I can watch my slowly...so you can get caught up.  I don't mind!

 

6 hours ago, smoker said:

I think relationships with Elle were always good. Moreover I've remembered Prentiss had to make an effort to gain people's trust. Hotch and Gideon didn't want her there, and this is my particular view, she couldn't talk to them the same way Elle did in season 1. They knew there was something wrong about her promotion, and they were right hehe. 

One thing I didn't like about Elle was she and Morgan had a too-similar background, I am not sure (about Elle), but I think they were both cops before joined the FBI, both of their parents were city cops and killed in the line of duty at young age...  I would like to know if it was done on purpose or  writers were a bit lazy.

I agree.  Elle's relationships were great, she had the most interesting relationships with everyone.  I also get that she was a little too much like Morgan.  They were like the same person.  Also, I loved that Prentiss struggled so much to gain their trust, it felt realistic.  

5 hours ago, smoker said:

You're welcome! It's been a pleasure :D

 

maybe ugly isn't the right word, I don't know if it sounds weird or like child talk xP 

those episodes aren't about a bad choice, on Morgan's part at least, they are about him being a dick. Although there are some episodes where we can see both things.

His behavior towards Prentiss in Demonology was awful, you don't treat a friend or a trusted coworker like that. He tends to do that, he treats people like shit when they are in a vulnerable place, emotional (Prentiss, Garcia, Hotch, Reid) or professional (JJ, Hotch, local cops).

If I were JJ I wouldn't have worked by his side 5 minutes, he is a D-bag and a bully, I'm thinking of him and Rossi laughing at Reid... :(

I am not going to say I hate everything about Morgan, but I hate a lot.

I liked Zugzwang, not the whole episode but I love Hotch and Morgan scenes with Reid. I think it was a missed opportunity for Hotch and Reid friendship (but that's another story). The way Morgan   

  Reveal hidden contents

cut Diane Turner off when she was playing the worried girlfriend was great, he saw her a mile away and

watched over his friend and gave him his support.

Hmm, maybe I need to play more attention to Morgan's dickish behavior.  I definitely understand what you're saying about the things that he says.  I definitely wouldn't be a big fan of working with the guy, and I hate them every time they laugh at Reid, it's awful.  I guess most of the time, Morgan is just there for me, if Hotch hadn't have left, I wouldn't have even noticed Morgan being gone in season 12, but losing Hotch, too, suddenly I noticed.  Also, I really hate that he keeps coming back...the same way I hated Prentiss coming back.  You left, stay gone.  

However, he has his moments, like you said with Zugzwang, Morgan can be a good friend.  

 

Note for anyone: Should I be spoilering some comments about future seasons?  Because I have no idea how to do that.

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21 hours ago, JenJenBosco said:

Note for anyone: Should I be spoilering some comments about future seasons?  Because I have no idea how to do that.

I don't know.  I was writing that line and thought I was giving more info than I should in this thread.

It's easier in recent threads because we can post in every episode separately, but I guess we can comment anything about season 1 here. Just like every week threads.

I have heard in a program spoilers should have an expire date, it was said because someone was  complaining about  a talk show focused on Casablanca you know.

I want to be careful with future seasons intell, I don't wanna say anything  imporant, but being honest it's difficult.

To hide sensitive info  you can use the lightning icon, just clic on it before writing the text you wanna keep out of sight ;D

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1 hour ago, smoker said:

I don't know.  I was writing that line and thought I was giving more info than I should in this thread.

It's easier in recent threads because we can post in every episode separately, but I guess we can comment anything about season 1 here. Just like every week threads.

I have heard in a program spoilers should have an expire date, it was said because someone was  complaining about  a talk show focused on Casablanca you know.

I want to be careful with future seasons intell, I don't wanna say anything  imporant, but being honest it's difficult.

To hide sensitive info  you can use the lightning icon, just clic on it before writing the text you wanna keep out of sight ;D

I definitely agree that spoilers should have an expiration date, which is why I haven't thought about it.  But maybe it's because I don't care about spoilers.

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What Fresh Hell:

I'm not sure that I am a big fan of this episode.  However, I did like the discussion on Stranger Danger, the interaction between Hotch/Gideon/Garcia and the interaction between JJ and Hal, the idea of looking for a witness to make the people more likely to come forward with information, I also like the presentation of the profile in this one, and Spencer's explanation about the statistics with the background changing, along with Gideon's explanation during the profile.  I also liked the side hug that Gideon gave Spencer at the lake.

I don't know what it was about Billy and her parents, but i just didn't like them. I also wasn't particularly happy about Gideon's lack of care over the warrant and getting lucky.  It honestly felt like a lucky shot.   He was also very ...I don't know...arrogant or something when talking to the father the first time.  I also disliked the woman, who caused more problems with mentions of the registries.  "There are a lot of ways to get on that list."  

I also disliked Garcia's pause to ask Morgan if he knew about the flowers because it was an emergency and they didn't have time.  Why ask about the flowers when you know they only have two hours left to find her alive.  

Fun question:  How did they get Billy out of Melinda?

Also, liked Morgan referring to Reid as Agent Reid. honestly I feel like that establishes his authority more than the Doctor thing, and the splash from the station to the neighbor, but I missed Morgan's suit.  Also liked the scene on the plane at the end, with the cards, and Spencer's card counting skills.  It was cute.  Also, the reveal of the pictures being passed victims.

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Poison:

I forgot about this episode.  It's not a very good episode.  I don't really like poison cases.  

Morgan's suit is back, somewhat.  Not the whole episode, but part of it.  Speaking of Morgan, Gideon's look at Morgan when he said. "Talk to me, Hot Stuff" clearly says, he's not a fan of that language.  I can't imagine he'd be okay with it if he'd stuck around, however, it was mild, and easily dealt with.

However, I did like the way they narrowed down which profile they were supposed to be looking at.  I also liked the profile presentation, and the change of the background behind Hotch.  I also liked that the last two episodes focused on JJ's job in regards to how the investigation is impacted.  I also like their discussions throughout the episode.  Their "I'll check this" or "I'll do that" was interesting, as if they knew what they'd be good at, the members of the team don't need Hotch to tell them what to do.  It's certainly different to recent seasons.

However, overall, the episode is rather uninteresting.  Not a fan.  Although, again, I liked the end.  Everyone passed out, except Hotch and JJ.  The conversation between them was great.  Why does Hotch do this job?  It was great, and I know in a later episode, JJ answers him, why she does her Liaison job.  

Riding the Lightening:

Also, not a fan.  Garcia's in the field, and freaked that the couple slaughtered young girls with blond hair, meanwhile Spencer is excited about this opportunity to interview the first serial killer couple for Vicap (sp?).

I did like seeing the affects of the other part of their job (the questionaire) trying to understand more to build a better profile.  Seeing the women of Jacob was also interesting.  Still liked the background changes.

Why make a statement of innocence, if, in the end, you'd rather die to stop your son from knowing the truth?

Jacob: "Do you ever smile?  It's hard to trust a guy who never smiles."  "Oh, I know, I know, one day these are going to kill me.  Oh, come on, Hotch, that was funny!"  He made me laugh...although I shouldn't have laughed.

I never realized that Gideon's son, is 25 in season one, which means he could be less than a year older than Spencer.  Very interesting.  Explains a lot about Gideon and Spencer's relationship.  

Loved Hotch's "Riley!" at right before Jacob dies.  "You lose!"

However, I didn't like the ending.  An innocent women spent her life in prison (her fault, obviously) and was killed by old sparky, and even knowing the truth, Gideon allowed it to happen.  It just doesn't quite sit right with me.  I get it, but I don't.  

Up Next, "Unfinished Business", now that one, I remember liking, but it'll have to wait.

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Unfinished Business:

I loved this episode for a number of reasons.  I loved the reprofiling of the case.  I loved seeing how sometimes cases are hard to let go of…we see it with Max, Gideon, Rossi…it’s interesting that both Rossi and Max write books about cases they’ve done.  I feel like this episode really delved into the effects of the job…of the ones they don’t catch right away.  Just like with Reaper in a few years for Hotch and the detective that made the deal with the Reaper.

I think it’s interesting that Max is a lot like Rossi is when he first comes back.  It shows that sometimes not everyone is a team player and it took Rossi time before he moved on from the case that got away and being a team player.  It was interesting that Gideon, who was less of a team player, was the man to make him see that the team is better than just two of them. “You’ve got a team of the best agents in the world out there, and you’re standing here alone.  If you let us, we’ll help you find him.”

I liked the discussion on them not having lives…and Elle questioning their ability to drop everything on a Saturday night.  It brings an interesting thought to me:  I always figured that the reason I didn’t care about their home lives wasn’t just because the cases were more interesting, but because I always believed that they were married to the job…which makes sense.  None of the characters need love interests because they are married to the job.  In the later seasons, that seems to change. 

However, I do like the idea that they might be weaving the way for Elle’s eventual exit…and it shows it’s a completely viable reason without trauma to leave the BAU. 

On another note, I liked that they saved someone they weren’t looking to save because Scott wasn’t the guy they were after.  I also liked them realizing that he had a kill list.

It was interesting that Max thought he was the cause of bringing the end of his spree, but it was also interesting that he gives in and uses the team.  I liked the way they figured out the unsub as well.  I also liked that at the end, Max says, “We got him.  Let’s go bring him in.”  Inviting everyone to be a part of it instead of trying to do it alone.

Overall, I really liked this episode, I feel like it was done better than Rossi’s unfinished business update.

Up next: The Tribe.

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The Tribe:

I really liked the beginning of this episode, the thing with Shawn and Hotch, as well as the conversation with the girls.  I also enjoyed the professional attire for the team, and the thought that they are a stronger pack than going after the pack that killed.  Also, I liked that Hotch referred to Reid as Agent.  For whatever reason, I like it better that way.

I also liked the dynamic of Blackwolf with Hotch.  It was very interesting.  I also liked the conversation with Blackwolf about the 21 feet thing with guns. 

I still really enjoy the change in scenery behind someone talking to explain things as well as the slides into the next scenes.  I also liked the discussion on cults, and the blood feud that the cult was trying to start.  Thought control, brainwashing, ect…was interesting when talking about cults. 

I liked the conversational sense of the profile scene, and their attempts to see reactions from Ingrid and Blackwolf at the crime scenes when the team was trying to figure out what they knew.

Interesting note, they are pretty good about making the team have equal time, but in this episode, I noticed it was big on Hotch.  The idea of each team member needing a centric seems weird to me on this type of show, but this is the first time it seems like it was a centric.  Although it was a good centric, and still includes plenty of the other characters. 

I definitely liked the ending, the people tied up and the conversation at the end with Hotch dubbed as ‘Captain America’.  I also enjoyed Hotch realizing that Shawn has to do things his own way.  Also, interesting the Hotch clearly seemed to take care of Shawn, and I think it sheds light on his relationship with Reid over the years.  Maybe it’s just because I know though.

Anyways, I enjoyed it overall.

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A Real Rain

I like this episode.  It brings up an issue that some people struggle with.  They want to believe in the system, but it isn’t infallible.  There are failures.  Some people get away with it, while some people get punished unfairly.  I found it interesting that some people believed that he shouldn’t be caught since he was going after bad people, and it made sense that Hotch felt he had to kill the unsub.

I feel like Hotch was questioning that it might be necessary, also one of the guys mentioned to Reid that he’d give him six years before he questions whether or not the guy was doing the right thing.  Both of these things are interesting to me.

Do you think any member of the team ever think that?

I loved the team scenes, the roundtable, the plane scene, the dinner scene.  It was all really great.  Interesting that Gideon, like Rossi later on, shrugs and says, “What’s vacation time?”  I liked that JJ was so nice to Reid, offering to show him around, and helping during the dinner.  I liked their friendship here.

I like that Reid mentions something from before he’s born, and Gideon says, “You weren’t even born.”

Reid shrugs, “I read a lot.”

I thought Elle bringing up how many rapists walked during her sex crime days, and then she ends up killing a rapist…is very interesting.  As if the idea of vigilantism was already a thought in her mind…well possibly.

It was kind of a sad ending.  The song at the end, made it sadder.

 Overall, it was a very thought provoking episode.

Up Next: Somebody’s Watching…which I love because of Spencer.

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14 hours ago, JenJenBosco said:

I think it’s interesting that Max is a lot like Rossi is when he first comes back.

I actually think when they came up with Rossi the writers took Max Ryan and simply renamed him, perhaps adding a few peripheral things like Rossi's predilection for hunting. The similarities between Ryan and Rossi are far too close to be a mere coincidence, which makes me think that perhaps the writers wanted to bring Ryan back but were stymied somehow- and hence they created Rossi.

I still hope one day they do bring Ryan back, because I think it would be fun to have Rossi and Ryan meet up again. Those two are so similar that they'd butt heads, and they're both so headstrong that their arguments would be epic.

Plus...can't say no to Geoff Pierson back on my screen again. He played Ryan perfectly.

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8 hours ago, JenJenBosco said:

A Real Rain

I like this episode.  It brings up an issue that some people struggle with.  They want to believe in the system, but it isn’t infallible.  There are failures.  Some people get away with it, while some people get punished unfairly.  I found it interesting that some people believed that he shouldn’t be caught since he was going after bad people, and it made sense that Hotch felt he had to kill the unsub.

I feel like Hotch was questioning that it might be necessary, also one of the guys mentioned to Reid that he’d give him six years before he questions whether or not the guy was doing the right thing.  Both of these things are interesting to me.

Do you think any member of the team ever think that?

I loved the team scenes, the roundtable, the plane scene, the dinner scene.  It was all really great.  Interesting that Gideon, like Rossi later on, shrugs and says, “What’s vacation time?”  I liked that JJ was so nice to Reid, offering to show him around, and helping during the dinner.  I liked their friendship here.

I like that Reid mentions something from before he’s born, and Gideon says, “You weren’t even born.”

Reid shrugs, “I read a lot.”

I thought Elle bringing up how many rapists walked during her sex crime days, and then she ends up killing a rapist…is very interesting.  As if the idea of vigilantism was already a thought in her mind…well possibly.

It was kind of a sad ending.  The song at the end, made it sadder.

 Overall, it was a very thought provoking episode.

Up Next: Somebody’s Watching…which I love because of Spencer.

A Real Rain is one of my favorites too. I always loved that comment about when Spencer was 30, he would change his mind. I think he always thought, at least up until Haley was killed, that every unsub deserved to have a fair trial be treated with human compassion. The flip side of that is Rossi, who believed Evil needed to be stopped. 

I, too, loved the team interaction, the way the profile is given and the crime reconstructed. And, yes, the foreshadowing of Elle's eventual meltdown was very sad.

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6 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

I actually think when they came up with Rossi the writers took Max Ryan and simply renamed him, perhaps adding a few peripheral things like Rossi's predilection for hunting. The similarities between Ryan and Rossi are far too close to be a mere coincidence, which makes me think that perhaps the writers wanted to bring Ryan back but were stymied somehow- and hence they created Rossi.

I still hope one day they do bring Ryan back, because I think it would be fun to have Rossi and Ryan meet up again. Those two are so similar that they'd butt heads, and they're both so headstrong that their arguments would be epic.

Plus...can't say no to Geoff Pierson back on my screen again. He played Ryan perfectly.

You know, now that you mention it, maybe they wanted to bring Max Ryan in instead of Rossi, but couldn't get the actor?  I wonder what it would be like if it had been Ryan all of these years instead of Rossi?  

Anyway, I would be interested in seeing those two react because they are a lot alike, and especially now that Rossi's learned to be a team player.  Either way, I like both of them, and it would be fun to see Max again.

2 hours ago, normasm said:

A Real Rain is one of my favorites too. I always loved that comment about when Spencer was 30, he would change his mind. I think he always thought, at least up until Haley was killed, that every unsub deserved to have a fair trial be treated with human compassion. The flip side of that is Rossi, who believed Evil needed to be stopped. 

I, too, loved the team interaction, the way the profile is given and the crime reconstructed. And, yes, the foreshadowing of Elle's eventual meltdown was very sad.

This was the first time the subject was brought up, but I do wonder if any of the characters consider it.  We know that poor Elle did, we know that Hotch gave in once because of killing the Reaper.  Has anyone else?  I do wonder about the other characters, especially Spencer, because around his 30th birthday he does question why he's on the team, I wonder if this question came up, too.

I think you're right about Hotch, this is the first time he mentioned it (wondering about it) to Gideon, who's prompt reply about not letting the unsubs get into his head, which I think would be different than if the conversation had been with Rossi, who, as you stated, believes that Evil needs to be stopped at all costs...

Overall, I really liked this episode, glad you do, too.

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4 minutes ago, JenJenBosco said:

This was the first time the subject was brought up, but I do wonder if any of the characters consider it.  We know that poor Elle did, we know that Hotch gave in once because of killing the Reaper.  Has anyone else?  I do wonder about the other characters, especially Spencer, because around his 30th birthday he does question why he's on the team, I wonder if this question came up, too.

I think you're right about Hotch, this is the first time he mentioned it (wondering about it) to Gideon, who's prompt reply about not letting the unsubs get into his head, which I think would be different than if the conversation had been with Rossi, who, as you stated, believes that Evil needs to be stopped at all costs...

Overall, I really liked this episode, glad you do, too.

Rossi, we are lead to think, took the law into his hands with Gideon's killer. 

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Just now, normasm said:

Rossi, we are lead to think, took the law into his hands with Gideon's killer. 

That's true, I kind of forgot about that since it's been awhile, and I have only seen it once.  Although, I do remember the conversation about whether or not Rossi took the law into his own hands by egging the killer to pick up the gun.  I was going to mention him, but forgot.  

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It would have been interesting, at some point along the way, to have seen what happened at trial for some of their unsubs, what it was like for the BAU, for the families of the victims, the effect of pleading out vs. pleading insanity, vs. an actual murder trial.  I suspect an agent's experience with that would impact how he or she felt about what to do in the field, and when 'justice' needed to be imparted before trial.  I know we had Tabula Rasa, but that case was too specific a circumstance to count.

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JMO,

I definitely agree.  I would love to see a couple of trial episode, ala Tabula Rasa.  I really wish that we had seen a few more of those kinds of episodes and really get into the effects of the victims, their families, the agents, the killer, at a trial, how they feel seeing justice play out in the court room.  

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