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Mick Lady

S05.E10: The Cord

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That would have been perfect IF the show were coming back next year. 

But for a final episode, a closing the book on the Psycho story, it ended the way it had to.

But, seriously, you should write that down and post it somewhere.  Is there a thread on here for fanfic?  You should develop that idea and write it before someone else steals it from you. It's great.

Of course, it suffers from the problem of the sheriff leaving Norman on the steps.  He's supposed to be under arrest for triple murder.

Edited by smorbie
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7 minutes ago, Hypnocratic Goat said:

So, question - do we believe Norman is really dead?

By that I mean, imagine a final scene like this:

The deputies carry Norman's body out of the house, followed by Dyan. He sits down on the steps. The sheriff walks up to him and says, "I'm sorry. I can't imagine having to kill your brother. Maybe it's... (pauses) Well anyway, I'm sorry." She turns and follows her deputies down to the vehicles. The camera slowly zooms in on Dylan's face. After a moment he says, softly, in a Norman-like voice, "Yes, it's too bad Dylan had to die."

Wait. So now Dylan is Mother?

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31 minutes ago, Hypnocratic Goat said:

So, question - do we believe Norman is really dead?

Yes, he is dead. There is nothing anyone can do to improve on what's already been done. No need to mess up a great ending. ?

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The way I read it, Dylan's crazy, too.  Killing Norman has pulled it out of hiding and now he's becoming Norman.

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2 hours ago, Garden Wafers said:

The article also makes me wonder how long it'll take before Norma and Norman's headstone becomes defaced. I get the feeling that a lot of notorious killers get buried in unmarked graves or cremated in order to reduce the risk of grave site vandalism. And I also wonder if Dylan will ever return to White Pine Bay to pay his respects, or if he'll try to forever leave this part of his life behind.

It's all so sad I would hope the character of Dylan got therapy to talk through it. This episode pulled through for me and did not disappoint. I expected either a sad ending or a creepy one and they pulled through on both. I was so glad i was watching this episode alone in my room because I felt tears kind of burn in my eyes. Not actually at the end of the episode but about five minutes later.

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On 4/25/2017 at 0:40 PM, peacheslatour said:

Right? Gus Van Sant has been quoted saying one of the reasons he made that dismal scene for scene remake was that so  no one else would try to remake Psycho.  This show was a brilliant homage. Kudos to all involved. The production people, the set and costume designers, the make up crew, the directors, writers and most especially the actors made Bates Motel one of the best, if not THE best TV show in the last two decades.

Man, that was just dreadful.

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21 minutes ago, smorbie said:

Bates Motel one of the best, if not THE best TV show in the last two decades.

Blows Breaking Bad out of the water IMO

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34 minutes ago, smorbie said:

Man, that was just dreadful.

I thought Viggo, Anne, Julienne, Macy and pretty much the whole cast did a decent job. But, Vince Vaughn? Just. No.

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There was just no point to it at all.  Vaughn was horrible.  And I promise I had never in my life wanted to see Heche's anus.  Why on earth would they show that?

Van Sant proved once and for all that even shot for shot he can't hold a candle to Hitchcock.

And his stated reason for doing it was BS.  I don't believe that for a minute.  It was hubris on his part plain and simple. He thought people would talk about the dimensions he had brought to story just by refilming it.

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Just now, smorbie said:

There was just no point to it at all.  Vaughn was horrible.  And I promise I had never in my life wanted to see Heche's anus.  Why on earth would they show that?

Van Sant proved once and for all that ever shot for shot he can hold a candle to Hitchcock.

Yeah, but I bet he was right. No one will ever remake Psycho.

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Some things are perfect just the way they are.  They should never be redone.  Psycho is certainly one of those things.

1 hour ago, Rustybones said:

My gosh, it sounds like some of us can't let go.

I'll admit I'm having a hard time with it.  I really, honestly loved this show.

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I guess I'll be the fly in the ointment.  I liked it but didn't love it.  I watched it live, which I rarely do, and it seemed like there were so many commercials.  Maybe a re-watch where I can FF will help the flow. 

Unfortunately I wondered all through the episode about where the police were who supposed to be staking out the motel and house.  Even a simple statement from the sheriff about sending everyone to the woods once Regina got back to station would have helped, though any worthwhile sheriff would have left at least one deputy there.  Just..all the lights on, someone actually checks in?  I was annoyed to waste time with that family as well.  I got it - mom with two boys, one named Dylan, triggers Norman to call Dylan...it just felt like time and lines wasted that could have been spent between Dylan and Norman, or more Norman/Norma...Norman could have gotten the "Dylan trigger" some other way.   I just didn't want to waste time talking with this person.  I never thought Norman would harm them, so there was no tension.

I am OK with Dylan not knowing about Caleb and no one knowing about Bradley because WE, the audience know.  I would have liked to have learned about Dr. Edwards - that was a big plot point to just drop.

I also didn't like wasting time for Dylan to get a gun.  Again, I understand why the scene was there, but it's not what I want to see on the last episode of Bates Motel, dammit!

All of the good:

The bit with Regina was hilarious - as soon as she started to loudly cry and Romero got irritated, I was laughing - I think that was some Bates Motel black humor.  Romero telling her "you're wearing a warm coat" when she complained about hypothermia definitely was. 

I wonder if when faced with the deed, Romero couldn't pull the trigger on Norman, knowing how important he was to Norma?  The need for revenge drove him but when faced with Norma;s corpse and his grief; maybe Romero just didn't care and wanted to die.   The Romero we knew pre-revenge quest would never turn his back on someone and leave his gun sticking out of his pocket.  I had thought the only way out for Romero was death so that wasn't unexpected. 

Everything Norman/Norma was first rate; so poignant yet disturbing.   I actually felt hopeful for them, somehow.  I can't praise Freddie Highmore enough for bringing such a sense of bemused wistfulness to those scenes.  I do wonder if somewhere in his mind, when he called Dylan, Norman knew how it was going to end.  I'm sure I'm overthinking it and I know in Norman's mind he and Norma had just arrived at WPB but Dylan was never like Norma - "everything's OK because I want it to be". 

When Norman replied to Dylan that he didn't accept that Norma was dead - just a great little bit between the two of them. 

I did feel badly for Dylan that he can't have a brother and mother the way he wants them to be - but most of my sympathy will be for Norman and Norma, who both had a chance but could just never cut that cord. 

It was nice to see the Dylan/Emma/Katie happy family.  I was surprised that Dylan made it out happy and alive.

We never got a vision at death from Norma - would that have been a happy reunion with Norman?  Or something else?  She couldn't break from him but she did have a brief, happy relationship with Romero, without beatings and rape.  Would her happy vision have included him?

I think Norman's gravestone was blank because apart from Norma, there wasn't anything to say about him.  He lost friends, his brother and mother because he couldn't cut that cord.

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On 4/25/2017 at 10:02 AM, smorbie said:

And all hail to Max Theroit, the often unsung hero of the plot.  For so long he was just another actor, competent, doing his job well.  He didn't often have a chance to shine, but when he did, he was electric.  I think of the scene where Norma asked him to go to Canada with her and Norman and told him how much she loved him.  I cry at the struggle on his face every time.  I'm glad he got a chance to strut his stuff in these last episodes.

We will never know what happened to Dr. Edwards and that's a shame.  The thing is we know Mother had more than one dumping spot.  Bradley was never found and Keith Summers' body never showed up, just his hand.  I'm guessing Bradley and Dr. Edwards are at the bottom of the deep, blue sea.

Like everyone else I was glad Dylan and Emma made it.  Emma is a genuinely kind and good person and eventually she would have figured out what a spot Dylan was in.  And, IMO, letting him go over a mother like Audrey wouldn't have been worth it.

It was a good finale, though, of course, very sad.  But, we knew it would be.  How many times did someone say this was written as a tragedy.  Tragedies rarely have ecstatically happy endings.  It was a wonderful ride, though, wasn't it?  It was beautifully written (by the creator of the dreadful Lost, no less) , gorgeously shot, and brilliantly acted by the entire cast.  I'm so sad it's over.

Hear, hear.  If anyone had told me five years ago that I could trust Carlton Cuse implicitly I would have laughed.  I almost didn't start watching because he was the showrunner!

You would think Max Theriot would coast on his looks, haha, but he's excellent.

On 4/25/2017 at 0:43 PM, Garden Wafers said:

I also thought it odd how the writers immediately undercut the impact of Mother leaving Norman in the woods; whatever epiphany he experienced was apparently short-lived since he was rapidly reconstructing another imaginary version of Norma and trying to reshape history. In my opinion, it would have worked better if the Mother figure left Norman after Dylan confronted him at the dinner table and shattered his delusions once and for all. I also didn't love the fact that Dylan warned off the motel guest by telling her Norman had "mental health issues" - mental health issues are not the reason why the mother of two should be frightened. I know that wasn't the writer's intent, but it still left a bad taste in my mouth.

Still, for all my quibbles, I enjoyed this finale. I'm glad the writers decided to end the story of Norman Bates in a way that was true to the past five seasons' worth of plot and characterization, and didn't just recreate the movie. I'll always be a sucker for a story line that involves two brothers caring for one another, so was glad the climax was focused only on Norman and Dylan. How could I not be touched by Norman reaching out to Dylan and trying to include him in his alternate reality? And how could I not be touched by Dylan, even after all was said and done, trying to reach out to Norman one last time? The dinner table confrontation also addressed one of my biggest issues with Dylan: just as he was exhorting Norman to face reality, I felt like Dylan was finally facing reality himself. There was never going to be a way for Norman to get better, while simultaneously avoiding all the consequences of his actions. 

I agree to some extent about the reset button but then it's also sort of poignant and perfect, that Norman's resolution is to go back to Square One and chase his dreamworld again.  I wondered for a brief moment if Dylan's thought processes took a side trip into wondering if Romero were holding a gun to Norman's head and forcing this delusional spill of words; and I personally thought it was kind of hilarious that Dylan's (heeded) explanation to the lady did not in fact leave her scratching her head, wondering just what kind of mental issues precluded someone from being able to check people into a motel. 

Interesting and consistent that Dylan's choice was to spit some lamely constructed sentence at the Sheriff about how she'd better fix this because Norman hadn't even been convicted, and that he doesn't care about the sheriff's employee, because to me that as good as shrieked in its topical inappropriateness and "Da fuq?"ness of it all, that it is in fact Dylan who is currently channeling Norma, because that's such a Norma-to-Romero-pre-marriage answer (and then Emma had to make it text later in her cell phone conversation with him, which I felt kind of ruined it as they could've let Dylan's actions speak for themselves and let us draw the conclusion).  He was also the de facto Norma surrogate as Norman's imagining himself being embraced by Norma, so that was nice also.

Fare thee well, Bates Motel!  For a minute I in fact thought my DVR had failed to record and felt a pang of loss as the menu told me, "No episodes in the upcoming weeks," sniff.

Edited by queenanne
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9 hours ago, Stringey said:

I get here what you are saying. From what i read though in the above article I thought they were saying the reason was because he was after all a serial killer and Dylan did not want to put something on Norman's headstone. There was a specific line in that interview article. My first impression of why there was no epitaph on headstone when watched was similar to yours. 

I see it now in the interview article.   Sorry!  

It also says in that article that the real gift Dylan gave Norman was putting him next to his mother.  I thought Norman did that himself in the fourth season?  If I'm remembering correctly.  Or no?  Like he was planning ahead and always knew that's where he wanted to be buried.  

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1 hour ago, rollice said:

I see it now in the interview article.   Sorry!  

It also says in that article that the real gift Dylan gave Norman was putting him next to his mother.  I thought Norman did that himself in the fourth season?  If I'm remembering correctly.  Or no?  Like he was planning ahead and always knew that's where he wanted to be buried.  

I guess they could be saying that Dylan consented to it, as next of kin. (Not sure how that works--if I pre-pay for my own funeral arrangements can my next of kin overrule things later?)

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One thing that I thought the finale was going to do but didn't, after Norman had either died or been institutionalized, was have that story that Chick wrote be read to everyone by somebody. But, I guess since Norman died instead of being institutionalized like in Psycho, it wasn't needed for someone to read it.

1 hour ago, rollice said:

It also says in that article that the real gift Dylan gave Norman was putting him next to his mother.  I thought Norman did that himself in the fourth season?  If I'm remembering correctly.  Or no?  Like he was planning ahead and always knew that's where he wanted to be buried.  

I definitely think Norman set up that plot after Norma's death (Dylan was out of town and didn't even know about Norma's death at first) so he could be buried next to her when he died. I think what that article meant was, when it was time for Dylan to decide where Norman should be buried, he was probably told about the joint plot that Norman already set up and he agreed that Norman should be buried there.

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1 hour ago, rollice said:

I see it now in the interview article.   Sorry!  

It also says in that article that the real gift Dylan gave Norman was putting him next to his mother.  I thought Norman did that himself in the fourth season?  If I'm remembering correctly.  Or no?  Like he was planning ahead and always knew that's where he wanted to be buried.  

I don't remember if we saw anything in season 4, but the show definitely revealed the shared headstone earlier this season when Caleb first learned about Norma's death. 

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6 hours ago, Rustybones said:

My gosh, it sounds like some of us can't let go.

I can let go i was responding to the fact that the ending was so sad. But not an unexpected ending.

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That's my ONLY real problem with the Final episode. Overall, it did the job and I believe we reached closure.

But I was watching this episode with my friend. And when Norman tried to stab Dylan and missed, I did not really hear the gunshot. Yes, I know that he brought a gun. But I didn't hear the gunshot, because of the loud music. And Dylan had his gun positioned low, so I didn't see him pull the trigger either. 

So as the commercials came on before the final scene, my friend told me, ''That's it. He killed Norman.'' And I thought he meant that he broke Norman's spirit. That Norman was in shock or something. I asked him what he meant and he repeated that Dylan literally shot Norman. I was like, ''What are you talking about?''

And I had to go back and rematch it and catch it. It's really hard to catch. You have to have great ears. The music was playing so loud. I don't think they showed blood at first, if I'm not mistaking. I thought that Norman was just in shock and confused and was day dreaming about Mother. If only I caught it the first time, it would have been much better.  

I mean think about it. Couldn't they have lowered the music so that I could at least hear the gunshot? Norman is so crazy that how do I know he's not just daydreaming and in a daze? I can't just assume that he was shot. And I know I'm not the only one who failed to catch this. 

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6 hours ago, Living Dead said:

 I mean think about it. Couldn't they have lowered the music so that I could at least hear the gunshot? Norman is so crazy that how do I know he's not just daydreaming and in a daze? I can't just assume that he was shot. And I know I'm not the only one who failed to catch this. 

I thought I could hear it. My issue was that we didn't see it. Only because honestly for a few minutes there I was wondering if the Sheriff was there and had shot him.  So that was distracting.  But it wasn't a deal breaker. I thought maybe they did it that way so we wouldn't have to see Freddy all bloody. 

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15 hours ago, Complexity said:

Yes, he is dead. There is nothing anyone can do to improve on what's already been done. No need to mess up a great ending. ?

Oh I agree. I was just indulging in a bit of fun.

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15 hours ago, smorbie said:

The way I read it, Dylan's crazy, too.  Killing Norman has pulled it out of hiding and now he's becoming Norman.

Exactly. In Norman, it was extreme emotional trauma that caused the emergence of "Mother". Now Dylan has experienced an extreme emotional trauma, and as a result "Norman" emerges.

But yeah, just a fun bit of fanfic. Not to be taken seriously. The final episode was about as damn near perfect as it gets.

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15 hours ago, smorbie said:

 

I'll admit I'm having a hard time with it.  I really, honestly loved this show.

I felt like about "Hannibal", and actually still do. It haunted me for months after the finale, still does. This one, tho I will miss it very much, and really admired it, I don't think will, mostly because I knew the end was coming, and they wrote a thoughtful, complete finale for it. It was satisfying and sad and sweet.

18 hours ago, Hypnocratic Goat said:

So, question - do we believe Norman is really dead?

By that I mean, imagine a final scene like this:

The deputies carry Norman's body out of the house, followed by Dyan. He sits down on the steps. The sheriff walks up to him and says, "I'm sorry. I can't imagine having to kill your brother. Maybe it's... (pauses) Well anyway, I'm sorry." She turns and follows her deputies down to the vehicles. The camera slowly zooms in on Dylan's face. After a moment he says, softly, in a Norman-like voice, "Yes, it's too bad Dylan had to die."

Wow, would I have hated that.

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But as a piece of fanfic, I think it would be great.  And in the future, after I'm dead, if someone wants to revisit the Bates Universe, it would be a good place to start.  :)

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I was watching the after show retrospective.  Bad edit for Olivia Cooke, she had only a couple of comments while everyone else had about ten.  I wish they had done more of a Talking Dead format where the whole cast was together with a host and bounced off of each other.

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5 minutes ago, Dobian said:

I was watching the after show retrospective.  Bad edit for Olivia Cooke, she had only a couple of comments while everyone else had about ten.  I wish they had done more of a Talking Dead format where the whole cast was together with a host and bounced off of each other.

I thought it was funny when vera was playfully making fun of Freddie complaining about the show having to be done with a English accent.

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1 hour ago, smorbie said:

But as a piece of fanfic, I think it would be great.  And in the future, after I'm dead, if someone wants to revisit the Bates Universe, it would be a good place to start.  :)

The ending was so great I can't imagine taking anything from there. If someone out a gun to my head and forced me to write a fan fiction it would revolve around Dylan's daughter. The first indicator would be when she is around seven and Dylan has taken her to the park. Emma is away shopping or something. Dylan sees at one point his daughter is away from the main area of the park by herself and has her back to him and she appears to be rocking herself. When he approaches her he sees she is holding a dead bird in her arms and is petting it. "Daddy the birdie died but if it take him home and believe hard enough he will be alive again"  Lol yes I know it's awful

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9 minutes ago, Stringey said:

The ending was so great I can't imagine taking anything from there. If someone out a gun to my head and forced me to write a fan fiction it would revolve around Dylan's daughter. The first indicator would be when she is around seven and Dylan has taken her to the park. Emma is away shopping or something. Dylan sees at one point his daughter is away from the main area of the park by herself and has her back to him and she appears to be rocking herself. When he approaches her he sees she is holding a dead bird in her arms and is petting it. "Daddy the birdie died but if it take him home and believe hard enough he will be alive again"  Lol yes I know it's awful

Well, her grandfather is a taxidermist so it wouldn't be that weird for a young child to think that way. :)

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18 hours ago, smorbie said:

Blows Breaking Bad out of the water IMO

I have them on par with each other, just different.  I also loved the BB finale, it was very satisfying.  The finales had parallels in how they ended.  BB also had Walter slipping back into town unnoticed by the cops similar to how Norman was freely moving about between the woods and the motel when the cops were on the hunt.  I chalk it up to serendipity.  Not really plausible, but in this reality every cop turned off the highway and up a side road right before a bloodied Norman coasted past with Norma in the car, the cop watching the house got a call to investigate another location right before Norman arrived.  A little harder to explain the cops not noticing an suv parked in front of the motel all afternoon, but whatever, they were all up the highway searching the woods until nightfall.  The sheriff stayed in her office all day monitoring the hunt by radio.  Maybe they could have spliced in a shot or two of the near misses.  Still not plausible, but oddly fitting.

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I meant the show, not just the ending.  I think the show was a much better show than BB.  I loved BB, but Bates found a place in my heart.

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I meant the whole show too comparing BB to Bates Motel.  The story and setting and style of BB was so unique, just as Bates Motel was unique.  They both had unforgettable characters.  They both reveled in dark humor.  They were completely different though, I can't compare them other than in terms of quality.

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You're probably right, and to each his own, of course.  BB didn't have many sympathetic characters, though.  That's okay the first time or two through, but after that I really began to hate all of them.

And that doesn't make for entertaining viewing.

In this show, though, there are sympathetic characters showering down on us all the time.  They are so caught in this tragedy and no one can escape.

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35 minutes ago, smorbie said:

You're probably right, and to each his own, of course.  BB didn't have many sympathetic characters, though.  That's okay the first time or two through, but after that I really began to hate all of them.

And that doesn't make for entertaining viewing.

In this show, though, there are sympathetic characters showering down on us all the time.  They are so caught in this tragedy and no one can escape.

Yeah, I was caught up in How To Get Away With Murder the first year.  Then after I knew everyone had committed murder and there was not one redeeming character, I  didn't watch it after that.

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That's the way I was about the Sopranos.  The story lines didn't matter after awhile.  I just didn't care about the characters; they were all too despicable to waste my time on.  I guess my favorite one was the bear that was in the backyard while Tony and his wife (Camilla?) were separated.

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OMG, all I have to say is... that was effing amazing!  I'm not even sad it's over, because it was just so good and so well done.

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1 hour ago, Canada said:

OMG, all I have to say is... that was effing amazing!  I'm not even sad it's over, because it was just so good and so well done.

Monday night I watched it on a smaller tv screen and today got the chance to watch it on a large one. Amazing and when you watch something a second time sometimes you pay attention even more to certain things. Good God Norman's blue dead hands that show a close up of when he puts her in a night gown for a nap. This episode really took the cake with all its creepiness. I said it before but in will say it again the dinner scene was beautifully creepy. I was so hoping at some point we would see Norman actually interacting with the corpse.  And watching this again the ending was so good and well done but darn so depressing. Not depressing because show is over although yes that sucks. Depressing because how it had to end for Norman. Still not unexpected though.

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I rewinded the part on my DVR where Dylan shoots Norman in self defense or mercy kills him.  I want to believe it was a mercy killing.  However I saw Dylan shift to his right and avoid the knife.  How did Norman know Dylan would shoot him?  Did he think Dylan would bring a gun to a dinner with family?  Did he think Dylan was still in the drug business and so always brought a gun with him?  Because otherwise, Dylan would have to dodge the knife and Norman be killed with the knife in order for Norman to succeed in his suicide-by-brother plan.  

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Two things I liked about the finale.

Norman/Norma not  hesitiating to kill Romero when he had the gun. That is what Romero should have done to Norman but instead turns his back on him!

When Dylan discovers Norma at the table...the way it slowly rotates to see her...that echoed Vera Mile as Lila Crane getting the mother reveal in the original movie. Well done!

What I didn't like was Norman dying....closes the door for ever revisiting Highmore portraying the character again somehow in the future.

Loose ends....so on that eneviatable day when what was her name....Bradly? When her car is discovered and pulled to the surface and they find her body...will they connect her death to Norman?

Congrats all around to BATES MOTEL....no matter what they tried to launch in the slot after it....well..they always failed and never lived up to BATES. Sucessful endeavor all around.

Edited by North of Eden
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12 minutes ago, North of Eden said:

Loose ends....so on that eneviatable day when what was her name....Bradly? When her car is discovered and pulled to the surface and they find her body...will they connect her death to Norman?

I don't think Bradley is a loose end because unfortunately for her, she faked her suicide before leaving town. So to everyone but Norman and Dylan, Bradley's been dead for years. I guess if the body is in tact enough, medical examiners can deduce she died from blunt force trauma to the head and then yeah, they might suspect it was Norman, who then faked her suicide. But since he's dead, it's not like they can do anything about it. But maybe it would be somewhat comforting to her mother to know she didn't kill herself. 

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Killing Norman kind of closes the loose ends.  Maybe a body or two will turn up and get connected to the motel (and did Miss Watson's death ever get officially solved?).    

There was no way to close every storyline but the show closed the majority of them and did it in a believable beautiful and tragic way.

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3 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Killing Norman kind of closes the loose ends.  Maybe a body or two will turn up and get connected to the motel (and did Miss Watson's death ever get officially solved?).    

Romero, the sheriff at the time, charged some bad guy (I forget his name) with Miss Watson's death.  Romero later found out from DNA test results that Norman had sex with Miss Watson the day of her murder.  Norman agreed to a polygraph test.  During administration of the test, Mother showed up right after Norman was asked if he killed Blaire Watson, and he "heard" Mother telling him that she killed Miss Watson, so then he passed the test. 

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There was an air of melancholy through most of the finale episode. It was a very fitting mood for the story.

I thought the car ride to Norma's body was interesting in showing the contrast between Norman and Romero, both of whom were killers. It was Romero who came across as the monster not Norman. Romero was violent and vulgar. He slapped and punched Norman at will, and he called Norman names, like "piece of shit" and "sick fuck". In contrast Norman was gentle and submissive.

Anyway, it was a great series. And it ended with an emotional bang.

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On 4/27/2017 at 7:29 AM, ganesh said:

Hopefully, Dylan will go to therapy to work through all this. 

Me too. He'll be there forever though,  bless his heart.  

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Tossing the stuffed dog Juno down the stairs in the after show was creepy and funny at the same time! Stuff like that....the cast having fun goofing around is what I like the most about this show. You could tell they all clicked and loved working with each other. They all brought out the best in each others talents! Love when Vera said she played the shit outa Norma too!

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I had to rewatch it again On Demand to pick up on some details I'd missed.  When the entire series is available I plan to buy that as well.  I do have the  original Psycho series, but other than I and 2 they stink.  Another thing, Freddie beats the shit out of Perkins IMO.

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