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S01.E01: The Bone Orchard


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8 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

Yeah, that threw me too.  When I've had it I recall it as being golden-colored.  I went out and got a bottle of it once for a Lord of the Rings trilogy-watching party (because I assumed it's what Gimli drinks).  I liked it but the the only way I can describe it is wine flavored with Ricola cough drops (all those mountain herbs).

Yeah, mead is similar to what (British) cider has become - you can still get the real stuff, but most of the stuff you see sold is basically alcohol, water, and flavouring - I've yet to have one of those that is actually good (some can be passable though).

Proper meads can be sweet, or they can be really quite bitter, but you still taste the honey coming through; just... altered (in the same way that in proper cider you can taste the apple, but you really wouldn't call it apple flavoured).

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Fuller has the right sensibility for this material. Ian McShane's casting bothered me before I saw him. I felt he was too old. I wanted Mads Mikkelsen or Viggo Mortensen. But I am convinced. He is a battered God with solid self confidence. No navel gazing, no doubts.

Shadow talks too much but I guess that was inevitable. He is so silent in the book. Like a Clint Eastwood character. But we need to understand him.

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(edited)

The episode was QUITE good. :)
Also, the visual reference in the face of the roommate (hehe) of Shadow in prison. I was confused. But then I got it. :)

Also... duh, obviously the imagery of faceless white men hanging a black man is disturbing. It's completely intentional. A huge part of American history is subtle, not-so-subtle or completely full on racism. NOT showing this and how close to the surface it is, would be insulting to the viewer.
B scene was really, really well-done. And the way they played with the voice was incredible.
I am a bit irritated at the somewhat condescending attitude towards her in the sense "it's good she is not just a sex-worker"... really, injecting present day prostitution hate in reference to something that is a clear omage to quite a different treatment of female sexuality and deity rubs me the very wrong way.
Of course there are some problematic aspects in Gaiman's work. And I remember after rereading the book being irked at some of the tropes... however, I have high hopes for the tv show. :)

Edited by Eneya
typos
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On 5/1/2017 at 9:22 AM, jcin617 said:

Yeah, he was strangely nonplussed by all that.  Maybe it goes along with whatever gizmo plugged him into the VR world.  

My guess: he's thinking "that was some seriously hallucinogenic smoke."

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21 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

Fuller has the right sensibility for this material. Ian McShane's casting bothered me before I saw him. I felt he was too old. I wanted Mads Mikkelsen or Viggo Mortensen. But I am convinced. He is a battered God with solid self confidence. No navel gazing, no doubts.

Shadow talks too much but I guess that was inevitable. He is so silent in the book. Like a Clint Eastwood character. But we need to understand him.

McShane is brilliant and perfect, but I still wish Mr. Wednesday was Mads Mikkelsen.

I saw 'dream casting' lists for this show before it actually happened and Jason Momoa was almost always listed as the number one choice for Shadow Moon, which: swoon. Had Mads and Momoa wound up on the same show, I would have been the happiest girl in the world. But Ricky Whittle is very fine too.

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I haven't read the book yet and haven't watched any of Bryan Fuller's previous shows. So I'm coming in blind, as it were.

For the most part I liked it. Ricky Whittle is pleasing to the eyes and can act, and it was good to see people whose other work I've enjoyed like McShane and Pornstache. The only parts that bothered me were the lynching and that stuff with Bilquis. My immediate reaction was oh of course, have a salacious scene with a naked Black woman right off the bat. That'll likely feed into some unfortunate stereotypes. But if that scene was true to the way events unfolded in the book (not asking for confirmation; I know this isn't the thread for book discussion) then I can deal with it. However, between this show and The Leftovers, watching gory portrayals of spiritual and religious symbolism might be giving me too much of the heebie jeebies.

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5 hours ago, luna1122 said:

McShane is brilliant and perfect, but I still wish Mr. Wednesday was Mads Mikkelsen.

I saw 'dream casting' lists for this show before it actually happened and Jason Momoa was almost always listed as the number one choice for Shadow Moon, which: swoon. Had Mads and Momoa wound up on the same show, I would have been the happiest girl in the world. But Ricky Whittle is very fine too.

Mads is too young and fit.  

Brian Cox (X2's William Stryker) would have been great, but I'll take McShane. 

Also, my ideal Shadow was Coby Bell from Burn Notice.  

That said, I'm very please with the production of the first episode.  It's hitting all of the right notes.

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So I've only read some of the book and gave up due to bordom about halfway through (skimmed the later parts ).  I watched this with my wife and it was just okay.  There was no real hook to get us into the story.  It looked good but plot wise it was very slow.  I'll probably keep up with it but I really hope it starts moving at a better pace.

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10 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

that stuff with Bilquis. My immediate reaction was oh of course, have a salacious scene with a naked Black woman right off the bat. That'll likely feed into some unfortunate stereotypes.

Is that really a stereotype? I am not trying to be argumentative, I just don't remember seeing that kind of thing much in tv shows or movies.

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40 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Is that really a stereotype? I am not trying to be argumentative, I just don't remember seeing that kind of thing much in tv shows or movies.

Not certain what "that" is being referred to but I was mostly thinking of the Jezebel stereotype of Black women. It's an easily searchable topic on the web and has been the subject of not an insignificant amount of academic research.

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(edited)

Really loved it visually (no surprise there after watching Hannibal), but I went in completely blind (no idea what the book's even about, all I know about it is the title) and am hella confused.

- I guess this is something like the American version of Norse mythology (hence the title), with actual gods and not just implied ones. So Mr. Wednesday and weird UFO guy are probably not exactly human. The Vikings at the start all got one eye poked out, so probably an allusion to Odin. Curious how they'll figure in later. 

- Shadow Moon is probably human, or at least was (not sure if he's dead and will be resurrected or simply ascend to some kind of demigod status or whatnot). Same for his wife, who'll probably be coming back from the dead as well - no point in casting someone like Emily Browning and giving her a series regular credit if her entire role is about two minutes of screen time, maybe half of that as a picture or in the coffin, plus there's the magic coin that got sucked into the grave. Just wondering as what both of them will be coming back - I can see a wide range of outcomes from as good as new and fully human to completely fucked up zombies or anything in between. 

- What the hell was that sex scene about? So she's a literal man eating sex goddess (or probably more appropriately, sex demon)?? 

 

Anyway, looking forward to the next one and hopefully some answers. 

Edited by Conan Troutman
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On 5/3/2017 at 3:29 PM, jeansheridan said:

I love Brian Cox too.  The original screen Hannibal.  Mads with a beard...mmmmm.  

Rogue One.  Your dream fulfilled.  

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I always imagined Shadow as very Scandinavian...a blue eyed, solemn, tall, big-but-not-bodybuilder-big blonde with a deceptively placid expression. And then on my screen comes this hot, cut, moody black guy, and I realized exactly how much my imagination sucks. 

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7 hours ago, The Mighty Peanut said:

I always imagined Shadow as very Scandinavian...a blue eyed, solemn, tall, big-but-not-bodybuilder-big blonde with a deceptively placid expression. And then on my screen comes this hot, cut, moody black guy, and I realized exactly how much my imagination sucks. 

FWIW, I read the book three times before I realized he wasn't white.

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On 4/30/2017 at 10:06 PM, bmoore4026 said:

The comment about mead was fantastic.  Has anyone here had mead before?  What does it really taste like?

Mead is not the drink for me. I had a tolerable honey peach mead that wasn't terrible, but I've also had a raspberry mead that tasted exactly like cough syrup. So, if you're really curious, crack the cap off some Benadryl and take a swig.

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52 minutes ago, Zanne said:

Mead is not the drink for me. I had a tolerable honey peach mead that wasn't terrible, but I've also had a raspberry mead that tasted exactly like cough syrup. So, if you're really curious, crack the cap off some Benadryl and take a swig.

XD

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(edited)
On 5/4/2017 at 3:51 AM, Conan Troutman said:

Really loved it visually (no surprise there after watching Hannibal), but I went in completely blind (no idea what the book's even about, all I know about it is the title) and am hella confused.

This is my biggest fear about the series.  I've read the book so I know what's going on but it is such a weird, surreal trip we've started on I'm really a afraid the non-readers are gonna get left behind. 

Then again, maybe they'll be intrigued enough to start reading the book.  That's what happened to me with Game of Thrones.

Edited by WatchrTina
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I rewatched last night. Still a little dark for my tastes  -- not in the content, but in the imagery. I've never thought of the book as brooding, but the firslt episode felt like 60 minutes of sulking. 

I hope they lighten things up a bit, both in cinematography and attitude. 

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One thing I don't understand is how the Biblical Queen of Sheba (known for testing Solomon's wisdom with riddles) got conflated with some devouring sex goddess figure.

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6 minutes ago, Bruinsfan said:

One thing I don't understand is how the Biblical Queen of Sheba (known for testing Solomon's wisdom with riddles) got conflated with some devouring sex goddess figure.

In some Jewish traditions, the Queen of Sheba is seen as a demonic witch or (in related Arabic folklore) a djinn, associated with or the actual incarnation of Lilith. She's also sometimes conflated with various sex temptress figures, like the Germanic Hulda or various fertility goddesses.

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Since this is a Starz show, I know it's going to be nuts. I know of the books, but haven't read them, and I'll probably wait. 

I don't know if this episode was that good of a tv pilot because it didn't really give much of a narrative direction, although I'm confident there will be one. 

The shooting style kind of reminded me of the first few episodes of Spartacus. 

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On 5/1/2017 at 4:37 AM, WaltersHair said:

This is a deeply, deeply weird series. Yet, somehow, it has more logic and clarity than three seasons of the Leftovers.

Yes. At least I feel like TPTBs here know what they're actually doing. 

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Finally got to see this! Woo hoo! So glad to know what everyone is talking about. 

I savored this episode, watching it in small batches. From the opening to the end, so many lovely details. I'm so glad they are taking their time rolling out the story. 

Ricky Whittle is doing a fine job as Shadow, and is so scrumptious to look upon. He is portraying the emotions just right. I especially loved the airport scene where Shadow kept his temper in check with the counter clerk.

Loved the before and after of Bilquis. She was looking at that guy like a starving woman looking at a steak, and she glowed with satiation after she got what she needed. Did anyone else notice that when she implored him to worship her the first time, he moved like he was going to go down on her? I gotta giver her date props for his marvellous acting, first with disbelief and trepidation, then with great fervor and intensity.  The only thing that would have made her devouring him even more absurdly awesome would have been for her to burp with satisfaction after pushing him in. 

LOVE THIS, and can't wait to devour the rest. All the wonderful discussions here have really whetted my appetite.

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I've tried to read the book about three times and failed to finish it each time so I was so happy it was getting a TV adaptation with Bryan Fuller. This was everything I could have wanted in a first episode of the show. Intriguing, provocative, disturbing, dark-as-fuck and Ian McShane is amazing. 

Doing a binge watch this weekend.

I will refrain from discussing the treatment of women. Mythology has not been kind after all.

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A few things are puzzling about this episode. Why did Technical boy pick up Shadow and try to get info from him in the limo about what Mr. Wednesday is up to? If he knew Shadow just agreed to work for him, then he knew he just  agreed to work for him! He has no idea what Wednesday is  up to.

 

When Technical boy tells the "Children" to kill him and announces "we're not just going to kill you, we're going to delete you", why do they leave the virtual limo to do it? Why cover that much of a field with blood? Why give anyone a chance to come along and witness it or possibly involve themselves? Why use a tree and rope? What was it, 8 or 10 on one?  It all seems so unnecessary. He doesn't know anything yet!

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On 3/17/2021 at 3:58 PM, T Summer said:

A few things are puzzling about this episode.

Okay, I'll take a whack at responding.

 

On 3/17/2021 at 3:58 PM, T Summer said:

Why did Technical boy pick up Shadow and try to get info from him in the limo about what Mr. Wednesday is up to? If he knew Shadow just agreed to work for him, then he knew he just  agreed to work for him! He has no idea what Wednesday is  up to.

I think the answer is that Tech Boy is "just following orders" (though we don't know that for SURE at this point).  He might be doing all this for his own reasons but it seems more likely that he was TOLD to interrogate Shadow and so that's what he's gonna do.  Maybe Shadow doesn't know anything useful yet.  Maybe Shadow knows a LOT more than he's letting on.  Tech Boy doesn't seem to care which answer is correct -- he's just going to perform the task (question, intimidate, terrorize) that he's been assigned.

 

On 3/17/2021 at 3:58 PM, T Summer said:

When Technical boy tells the "Children" to kill him and announces "we're not just going to kill you, we're going to delete you", why do they leave the virtual limo to do it? Why cover that much of a field with blood? Why give anyone a chance to come along and witness it or possibly involve themselves? Why use a tree and rope? What was it, 8 or 10 on one?  It all seems so unnecessary. He doesn't know anything yet!

If it had really been Tech Boy's intention to kill Shadow AND he had been capable of killing Shadow then I think it's clear Shadow would be dead. So you have to assume that either:

  1. Tech Boy didn't really intend for Shadow to die (no matter what he said to his henchmen), OR
  2. Tech Boy was not actually capable of killing Shadow (for reasons yet to be revealed), OR
  3. Both.

Whichever it was, I think the hanging, the henchmen, the shear spectacle of it all makes clear that Tech Boy was sending a message to . . . someone.  Maybe he was trying to scare Shadow away from assisting Wednesday (but had reasons not to kill him.)  Maybe he was trying to warn  Wednesday that whatever it is he's up to, he's being watched and anyone who helps him is at risk.  We just don't know at this point. 

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