S04.E13: Whitney Steps Up

[Mojoker]

Just now, Alapaki said:

But we have no indication that she has or plans to, pay off the mortgage quickly.  On the contrary, it appears that she's already taken out a HELOC to turn what equity was into the house (which I'm guessing came mostly from the Daddy Bank) into an ATM.

She doesn't have to pay it off quickly, she just needs to make her payments on time every month. It'll have the same impact. And I don't know why she would necessarily have to get the down payment for the house from her father. The property doesn't look very expensive, and she makes good money.

[Alapaki]

22 minutes ago, Mojoker said:

She doesn't have to pay it off quickly, she just needs to make her payments on time every month. It'll have the same impact. And I don't know why she would necessarily have to get the down payment for the house from her father. The property doesn't look very expensive, and she makes good money.

But then it doesn't make sense for her to have had to start running a HELOC as soon as she purchased the home.  At least not if those Net Worth figures are accurate.  

And, ultimately, I think that needing a co-signer when you're in your 30's is unusual.  In my experience, the most common co-signer scenario is a parent helping a child in their late-teens or early twenties get a car loan.  Or, perhaps, a parent helping a child in their twenties get their first home.  But given that the parent is then committing to 30 years of credit risk themselves, I think having a parent co-sign a mortgage is unusual.

[ClareWalks]

3 minutes ago, Alapaki said:

And, ultimately, I think that needing a co-signer when you're in your 30's is unusual.  In my experience, the most common co-signer scenario is a parent helping a child in their late-teens or early twenties get a car loan.  Or, perhaps, a parent helping a child in their twenties get their first home.  But given that the parent is then committing to 30 years of credit risk themselves, I think having a parent co-sign a mortgage is unusual.

Most people in their 30s who have jobs (...such as the jobs are) and have parents nearing retirement age have the decency and the self-pride to not risk putting their parents at risk of a defaulted loan. I think it's a sign of Whitney's ongoing selfishness that she would ask her daddy to cosign a mortgage (or, if Glenn *offered*, to allow him to follow through on it). There are ways to get a house totally on your own by getting an additional loan for the down payment. This is not a subject I know a tremendous amount about, but I have known people who got two mortgages (ex: an $80,000 one and a separate $20,000 one for the down payment) straight out of college, based on a salary stated in a job offer letter.

[Alapaki]

And we have the further evidence, which must be true because we saw it on this show, that Whitney depends on Buddy's "rent" so that she can make her mortgage payments.  

Assuming Buddy's rent is roughly equal to half the monthly mortgage payment, and assuming the mortgage payment is roughly $1,000/month, Whitney's "net worth" could absorb between 1,500 and 3,000 months of Buddy's missing rent payments.

Now, that's no reason not to have Buddy commit to a written Lease.  But it does put the lie to Whitney's urgency to do so, if that's truly her Net Worth.

[Mojoker]

12 minutes ago, Alapaki said:

But then it doesn't make sense for her to have had to start running a HELOC as soon as she purchased the home.  At least not if those Net Worth figures are accurate.  

And, ultimately, I think that needing a co-signer when you're in your 30's is unusual.  In my experience, the most common co-signer scenario is a parent helping a child in their late-teens or early twenties get a car loan.  Or, perhaps, a parent helping a child in their twenties get their first home.  But given that the parent is then committing to 30 years of credit risk themselves, I think having a parent co-sign a mortgage is unusual.

You're basing all this on the assumption that everything you've been told on the show is true. In fact, there is no record that anyone co-signed on Whitney's mortgage.  She bought the house for $221,000 with $44,200 down, then financed the remaining $176,800 with a 20 year ARM. She is the sole person on the deed and on the loan, and there are no deeds or loans in Glenn's name other than his ownership, with Babs, in their own home.

[Mojoker]

14 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

Most people in their 30s who have jobs (...such as the jobs are) and have parents nearing retirement age have the decency and the self-pride to not risk putting their parents at risk of a defaulted loan. I think it's a sign of Whitney's ongoing selfishness that she would ask her daddy to cosign a mortgage (or, if Glenn *offered*, to allow him to follow through on it). There are ways to get a house totally on your own by getting an additional loan for the down payment. This is not a subject I know a tremendous amount about, but I have known people who got two mortgages (ex: an $80,000 one and a separate $20,000 one for the down payment) straight out of college, based on a salary stated in a job offer letter.

I don't know what most people in their 30s do, but I don't think there's anything indecent about asking your parents to co-sign a mortgage for you (but, again, there's no actual evidence this ever happened in reality). Getting a house isn't quite as easy as you seem to think it is. You can't get two separate mortgages - one for the house, one for the down payment; that simply isn't a thing.

[Alapaki]

6 minutes ago, Mojoker said:

You're basing all this on the assumption that everything you've been told on the show is true. In fact, there is no record that anyone co-signed on Whitney's mortgage.  She bought the house for $221,000 with $44,200 down, then financed the remaining $176,800 with a 20 year ARM. She is the sole person on the deed and on the loan, and there are no deeds or loans in Glenn's name other than his ownership, with Babs, in their own home.

She said on the show that Glenn co-signed, didn't she?  Of does she use "co-sign" the way she uses "dance career"?

[Mojoker]

Just now, Alapaki said:

She said on the show that Glenn co-signed, didn't she?  Of does she use "co-sign" the way she uses "dance career"?

Yes, she did say that on the show. But it's not reflected in public records. If I have to choose between believing something Whitney says on her show and believing the official tax and real estate records for North Carolina, I'm going to be inclined to go with the gov'mint.

[ClareWalks]

10 minutes ago, Mojoker said:

I don't know what most people in their 30s do, but I don't think there's anything indecent about asking your parents to co-sign a mortgage for you (but, again, there's no actual evidence this ever happened in reality). Getting a house isn't quite as easy as you seem to think it is. You can't get two separate mortgages - one for the house, one for the down payment; that simply isn't a thing.

I've known people who have done it. I'm not sure if they called the smaller one a "mortgage" or just some other sort of loan. And we will have to agree to disagree on the decency of making one's parents accrue hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt because the precious kiddo doesn't want to rent.

[Mojoker]

3 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

I've known people who have done it. I'm not sure if they called the smaller one a "mortgage" or just some other sort of loan. And we will have to agree to disagree on the decency of making one's parents accrue hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt because the precious kiddo doesn't want to rent.

The parents aren't even involved unless their child defaults on the loan. And I think most parents who are in a financial position to do so would prefer to help their child get on the property ladder and start building credit and equity rather than have them continue to throw money down a rat hole in the form of rent.

[AZChristian]

16 minutes ago, Mojoker said:

Yes, she did say that on the show. But it's not reflected in public records. If I have to choose between believing something Whitney says on her show and believing the official tax and real estate records for North Carolina, I'm going to be inclined to go with the gov'mint.

The deed is in her name, but on the "Adjustable Rate Rider," he has signed as a Borrower.  Looks like he has some financial interest, based on that.

[Alapaki]

In the Ep 01 thread, when this issue came up, someone posted links to the Loan information, although it appears those links may be dead now.  

People that looked at them while they were live stated that Glenn was listed on both the main loan and the smaller, presumably HELOC loan.

My understanding is that a co-signer doesn't necessarily need to be listed on the Deed itself.

4 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

And we will have to agree to disagree on the decency of making one's parents accrue hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt because the precious kiddo doesn't want to rent.

To say nothing of the fact that, apparently, this house is not ideal for Whitney.  My understanding is that Buddy has the upstairs and Whitney has the downstairs because she doesn't want to walk the stairs.  If that's the case, then she'd be better off in a single-story ranch home, or a condo.  

Look, ultimately the home purchase is just another phony storyline for this bullshit season.  Heroin and Opium addicts call this "Chasing the Dragon": they need stronger and stronger hits to keep their highs going.  That's Whitney this season.  She can't give up the reality-tv-spotlight high, so she "buys" a house, fakes a pregnancy, fakes a lesbian relationship, set-up a phony "dance challenge".  Next season we'll see her getting robbed at gunpoint in a Paris hotel.

[Mojoker]

2 minutes ago, Alapaki said:

In the Ep 01 thread, when this issue came up, someone posted links to the Loan information, although it appears those links may be dead now.  

People that looked at them while they were live stated that Glenn was listed on both the main loan and the smaller, presumably HELOC loan.

My understanding is that a co-signer doesn't necessarily need to be listed on the Deed itself.

To say nothing of the fact that, apparently, this house is not ideal for Whitney.  My understanding is that Buddy has the upstairs and Whitney has the downstairs because she doesn't want to walk the stairs.  If that's the case, then she'd be better off in a single-story ranch home, or a condo.  

Look, ultimately the home purchase is just another phony storyline for this bullshit season.  Heroin and Opium addicts call this "Chasing the Dragon": they need stronger and stronger hits to keep their highs going.  That's Whitney this season.  She can't give up the reality-tv-spotlight high, so she "buys" a house, fakes a pregnancy, fakes a lesbian relationship, set-up a phony "dance challenge".  Next season we'll see her getting robbed at gunpoint in a Paris hotel.

If Glenn were a co-signer on that mortgage, he would be listed as such in the public record. He's not.

If you look at the house on Google Maps, it does have a "for sale" sign in front. The imagery is from April 2016.

[Alapaki]

Oh, and I forgot the phony "convert the garage into a dance studio" storyline.  

So now she's depreciating the value of the house she couldn't afford in the first place, by setting up commercial space that the house is surely not zoned for, for use that, unless she intends to sit on her ass like Abby Lee Miller, she'll won't be able to actually do for much longer, if at all.  It's a wonder Glenn wasn't the one to stroke out.

[Mojoker]

1 minute ago, Alapaki said:

Oh, and I forgot the phony "convert the garage into a dance studio" storyline.  

So now she's depreciating the value of the house she couldn't afford in the first place, by setting up commercial space that the house is surely not zoned for, for use that, unless she intends to sit on her ass like Abby Lee Miller, she'll won't be able to actually do for much longer, if at all.  It's a wonder Glenn wasn't the one to stroke out.

I honestly don't think the zoning would be an issue.  A home dance studio isn't quite the same thing as wanting to open a 7-11 in your dining room. The area where she lives is already mixed commercial and residential, so a dance studio in her garage wouldn't really be much of a stretch.

[Complexity]

8 hours ago, qqererer said:

Remember, they shoot 2 'seasons' a year

Oh, wow, I hadn't even realized that. But looking at the air dates for the shows, the very first show was aired on Jan 13,2015. That's just 2 years, 3 months ago! 

The changes we've seen in Whitney and Buddy in that short of a timespan are nothing less than shocking.

[AZChristian]

2 minutes ago, Complexity said:

Oh, wow, I hadn't even realized that. But looking at the air dates for the shows, the very first show was aired on Jan 13,2015. That's just 2 years, 3 months ago! 

The changes we've seen in Whitney and Buddy in that short of a timespan are nothing less than shocking.

See what two years of an "exhausting" life does to you?  I mean . . . what do people expect?  She has to spend at least 3 hours a week between her jobs, her dance classes, her hair appointments.  Just being fabulous will wear you out!!!!

[John M]

I've kind of checked out and haven't finished this episode but this was the finale, no? The next episode is just the recap and discussion?

So after all of that bullshit about the dance battle and the dance battle rematch, all of the obsessing over just how critical this rematch was, that Whit will be vindicated once she knows the rules and she doesn't have a fat phobic judge on the panel there is no rematch?

What the fuck was half of this season about if we never get to see the thrilling conclusion to the dance battle?

[ClareWalks]

2 hours ago, John M said:

 

I've kind of checked out and haven't finished this episode but this was the finale, no? The next episode is just the recap and discussion?

 

Yeah, I was totally confused by that. Nothing about this episode screamed "season finale" to me AT ALL. There's usually some sort of "wow, what a crazy 'year' it's been," with clips of hijinks and/or shenanigans. Maybe because Whitney did almost literally nothing this season. Even the manufactured storylines are totally uninteresting. Hell, I'm a stay at home mom with a part-time personal training career and I think MY boring-ass life is more dynamic.

[Dot]

12 hours ago, M.F. Luder said:

 

For this part, I'm leaning to the side that believes the whole Fitness Marshall situation and Todd's apparent jealousy over it is a complete fabrication. I gotta believe that Todd is smart enough to realize that the ONLY reason Whitney was even invited to dance with the Fitness Marshall was because of the show (not her talent). And even if you believe that Whitney and FM had some sort of connection, I gotta believe that Todd is not delusional enough to think that if Whitney weren't in the picture, he would have the talent and charisma to make FM pick him to go on tour with him out of everyone else who would probably want that job. Todd is not that good at dancing, and he's gotta know that given his work in NYC competing against men who can ACTUALLY dance.

Yes, we all know this show is fiction. Yes, Todd is a part of the fiction & willing to do whatever the script says he must do to keep earning a paycheck. I am just pointing out that Todd's feelings have been ignored twice by Twit. And I think he was more than happy to be allowed to be pissy about it, script or no.

[tdanaher]

3 hours ago, Mojoker said:

Yes, she did say that on the show. But it's not reflected in public records. If I have to choose between believing something Whitney says on her show and believing the official tax and real estate records for North Carolina, I'm going to be inclined to go with the gov'mint.

 

[Alapaki]

I wonder what conditions give the lender the option require immediate payment?  If this is an adjustable rate, it might be one with "negative amortization" (the kind that got a lot of people foreclosed on during the housing crises; I didn't think anyone was writing those anymore).

It also suggests that the house may have been bought as nothing more than a "set" for the show, and that the plan has always been to flip it once the show ends.  In which case, it might be a good idea to buy Proctor & Gamble stock, because there's going to be a run on Febreeze!

[AZChristian]

3 minutes ago, Alapaki said:

I wonder what conditions give the lender the option require immediate payment?  If this is an adjustable rate, it might be one with "negative amortization" (the kind that got a lot of people foreclosed on during the housing crises; I didn't think anyone was writing those anymore).

It also suggests that the house may have been bought as nothing more than a "set" for the show, and that the plan has always been to flip it once the show ends.  In which case, it might be a good idea to buy Proctor & Gamble stock, because there's going to be a run on Febreeze!

I think this clip shows the last paragraph of the Adjustable Rate Rider.  There was lots of legal stuff above this, and a lot of it focused on non-payment or default of the loan.  I think that's the situation which might cause the "immediate payment" option.  And I don't think it's an "interest only" loan; it's just a standard Fannie Mae adjustable rate mortgage.  The contract contains info on limits as to how much the interest can change from year to year, with a cap of something like 9.95% (ish).  

[tdanaher]

8 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

I think this clip shows the last paragraph of the Adjustable Rate Rider.  There was lots of legal stuff above this, and a lot of it focused on non-payment or default of the loan.  I think that's the situation which might cause the "immediate payment" option.  And I don't think it's an "interest only" loan; it's just a standard Fannie Mae adjustable rate mortgage.  The contract contains info on limits as to how much the interest can change from year to year, with a cap of something like 9.95% (ish).  

For context, and if this link works, the whole thing can be tound here...

http://rdlxweb.co.guilford.nc.us/view_image.php?file=0&type=pdf&sessid=8b105cd446005a74e957abf4ef6f72ce

[AZChristian]

3 minutes ago, tdanaher said:

For context, and if this link works, the whole thing can be tound here...

http://rdlxweb.co.guilford.nc.us/view_image.php?file=0&type=pdf&sessid=8b105cd446005a74e957abf4ef6f72ce

"Image not found on file."  I think people have to search on their own, or we'd have to create screen prints of each page.

[tdanaher]

7 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

"Image not found on file."  I think people have to search on their own, or we'd have to create screen prints of each page.

Yikes and owell. Anyway, the relevant site to poke around regarding such matters is http://rdlxweb.co.guilford.nc.us/guilfordNameSearch.php (us public folks have to accept a disclaimer first). 

[ClareWalks]

38 minutes ago, Alapaki said:

It also suggests that the house may have been bought as nothing more than a "set" for the show, and that the plan has always been to flip it once the show ends.  In which case, it might be a good idea to buy Proctor & Gamble stock, because there's going to be a run on Febreeze!

Oh man, there are not enough Febreze or Glade Plug-Ins in the WORLD! They'll need the firemen to go in and just hose the whole place down. With bleach.

[John M]

1 hour ago, Alapaki said:

I wonder what conditions give the lender the option require immediate payment?

That's a standard part of a home loan and part of the foreclosure process. If you default on your home loan they will eventually send you a notice of intent to accelerate letter, it's basically the final demand that unless you get your payments current they will accelerate the loan and the entire amount becomes due. Then you get a notice of acceleration, Sometimes you can still work out a deal I think but it's basically the final, final demand, either you pay us every penny you owe right now or we are going to foreclose.

Part of pretty much any contract like a mortgage is what happens if you breach the contract, in the case of a home loan it means eventually the entire balance of the loan becomes due immediately and if you fail to pay that they foreclose. 

Edited April 25, 2017 by John M

[Nancypants]

Is this the the home loan thread?

[Morgalisa]

5 hours ago, tdanaher said:

 

It's amazing how similar Whitney and Glenn's signatures are. I am not suggesting anything shady as I am sure they had to sign in front of a lending officer. It just jumped out to me how similar they are.

[aliya]

10 hours ago, Alapaki said:

But then it doesn't make sense for her to have had to start running a HELOC as soon as she purchased the home.  At least not if those Net Worth figures are accurate.  

And, ultimately, I think that needing a co-signer when you're in your 30's is unusual.  In my experience, the most common co-signer scenario is a parent helping a child in their late-teens or early twenties get a car loan.  Or, perhaps, a parent helping a child in their twenties get their first home.  But given that the parent is then committing to 30 years of credit risk themselves, I think having a parent co-sign a mortgage is unusual.

I'm a widow with a grown son. We share passwords when needed. I've given him my debit card to use for me when I couldn't leave the house (he should have bought the items for me on his own, but that's another issue...), we share a lot of financial / personal info that maybe parents don't normally share with children, but since he is my 'emergency contact, ' as it were, it is sometimes necessary. I trust him implicitly. I know him to be a man of honorable character and high credit rating. : )

All that said, I would not co-sign on a house or car for him. I don't want to be responsible for someone else's financial issues, especially now that he's married and there is another person in the picture. I would give him whatever money I could spare, but co-sign. Nope. Not gonna happen. Listen to some of the calls that Dave Ramsey gets and hear how people have been screwed by their loved ones.

[Complexity]

1 hour ago, Morgalisa said:

It's amazing how similar Whitney and Glenn's signatures are. I am not suggesting anything shady as I am sure they had to sign in front of a lending officer. It just jumped out to me how similar they are.

I noticed the same thing. The signatures are very strangely similar. But as you said, they would have had to sign them with a lending officer so they must be genuine signatures. Still, it's creepily uncanny how similar they are.

[Dot]

I re-watched part of this episode before "The Skinny" came on & was reminded of what I think is one of the meanest, most insensitive things she's ever said to one of her barnacles. Not long after Tal was hugging Twit & telling her Babs was one of the finest people he had ever known, he was visiting Babs at the hospital. And, while guffawing loudly, Twit reminded both how Babs had disliked Tal to the extent of her even saying, "Don't let that boy in my house," thinking Twit had said "Tal" rather than "towel." Babs was embarrassed; Tal was stricken; Twit, as usual, was oblivious to their feelings.

[John M]

On 4/25/2017 at 6:39 PM, Morgalisa said:

It's amazing how similar Whitney and Glenn's signatures are. I am not suggesting anything shady as I am sure they had to sign in front of a lending officer. It just jumped out to me how similar they are.

Ehhh......

I don't know, I'm Twit's age which was right during the transition phase between cursive/print/typing phase where when you were young you opened a bank account to learn about money management and had to come up with a signature (again, learning to be an adult).

I vividly remember both my parents teaching me how to develop a signature in my tweens, just like they help me learn to write in cursive which helped developed my signature style which is almost the same as I signed things when I was 13.

I give this a pass, my signature is actually very similar to my mother's a very distinctive first letter and very distinctive and uniform series of seemingly random strokes in the approximation of the rest of my name if someone was having a seizure while writing them.

[Irate Panda]

*moved

Edited September 12, 2019 by Irate Panda