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S06.E10: Latching


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While I was disappointed in the finale, I did like how the finale represented three of the phases of a woman's life. Single young woman pre-baby, mother, and grandmother.

I'd like to think that the phases of a woman's life aren't based around when she, or her child, might give birth.      

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I would disagree on Marnie not maturing. She may be floundering still in her own life, but for real, she is very adept at taking care of a newborn that's not even her own and I saw in her this episode a little of what we saw the first season - someone who is very organized, got it together, etc when it came to this screaming baby. Even with nothing to do, for a single late 20 something woman to be living away from busy city life and caring for a friends baby for months is pretty noble IMO. However was she smoking an e cig at the pediatric office ?!

 

I viewed it more as Marnie avoiding her actual problems, and trying to place herself in some kind of "hero" type position as the best friend who rushed in to help her single mother friend (despite not being asked), in an attempt to place herself above reproach to people who might question what she was doing with her life. 

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Well, I liked this ending.  And I was glad Lorene was in it.  I've enjoyed her character.  She spoke some real truth to these girls.  Law school IS boring, because so many people choose that when they don't know what else to do.. But Marnie said she loved rules, so for her it might be a good fit.  

I felt really bad for Lorene when Hannah bitched at her about how it was her fault that she's so screwed up. That was tough to watch. (And possibly not entirely true. )  And when Lorene confessed to Marnie that she no longer loved her best friend, but hated him, that made me really sad.  In my imaginary continuation of the show, she eventually comes to some peace with her exhusband and finds some renewed joy in life. 

I thought it was fitting that Hannah realized (hopefully) that her mother was trying to do her best, just as Hannah was trying and in the end, she succeeded in getting Grover to latch. (Believe me, it feels like a wonderful accomplishment when you're successful at breastfeeding, at least, it did for me.) 

It was a good ending for a show that often drove me nuts.  I started watching it to see if I could gain some insight on my kids' generation, and ended up watching for the entire run.  Not sure I gained a lot of insight, but I did enjoy watching. Thanks, GIRLS. 

Edited by cardigirl
correct spelling is good
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12 hours ago, heavysnaxx said:

 

 

12 hours ago, heavysnaxx said:

 

Ok, I totally messed up the quote-thingy but here's the gist of it:  

Something about Hannah's disability.  What is her disability?  I know this question leaves me open to an abundance of funny replies, but I'm wondering if she had a legitimate disability.

Next, the comments about Hannah wearing just a pair of panties when she is supposedly still bleeding.  Just EW!  And I recoiled that she didn't put on deodorant!  Which brings up my bewilderment at how many adult women take a bath while their mother is sitting there watching?  She barely dried off then put on and sashed her robe to walk just a few feet into her bedroom where she flung off the robe to get dressed.

See, the above are the kinds of things that get me worked up while watching a TV show.

I did enjoy her confrontation with the teenage girl.  I wondered why she didn't ask her what happened before she immediately assumed she was being abused.

Oh, one more thing ... were those really fake boobs?

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I just remembered the one exchange I did really enjoy from this episode, when Hannah was going over her list of poor me woes yet again and her mother screamed in exasperation, something like: "Oh boo hoo, you know who else is in pain? Fucking everybody!!" I have several girlfriends I would love to say that too! 

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So, if Hannah's bare ass as she sat down on the steps of her house is any indication, she wasn't wearing underwear under the pants she gave to the teenage girl. I guess in Hannah's world, only men can be creepy and inappropriate. She offered a distraught teenage girl, a stranger, her pants, thinking that she'd maybe been sexualized by a creepy stepdad...without thinking that maybe the girl would be just as freaked out by a stranger who's naked from the waist down and inviting her into her house? Come on. 

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The episode was really well done from the perspecitve that, final scene aside, it wasn't really about the new beginnings and hope for the future, that Hannah has been trying to find. There was finality to it, which seems appropriate for a shows finale, and like life not all things are good, nor all things bad. There was no big reconciliation with Shosh, and the struggle with maintaining a friendship with Marnie was real, which her mother hit home on. It was heavy.

Thank god for the pants gag for some brevity!

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19 minutes ago, archer1267 said:

So, if Hannah's bare ass as she sat down on the steps of her house is any indication, she wasn't wearing underwear under the pants she gave to the teenage girl. I guess in Hannah's world, only men can be creepy and inappropriate. She offered a distraught teenage girl, a stranger, her pants, thinking that she'd maybe been sexualized by a creepy stepdad...without thinking that maybe the girl would be just as freaked out by a stranger who's naked from the waist down and inviting her into her house? Come on. 

She was wearing underwear. We saw her put them on, and could see them after she took off the jeans. thongs, maybe, so her ass was mostly bare, or else they just, you know, crawled up, wedgie style. It's all still gross, but she was, at least, wearing something under the jeans.

I don't know a single grown woman who would bathe in front of her mother unless they were ill and needed help or something, but Hannah has pretty much been shown bathing in front of...everyone.

Edited by luna1122
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One thing that occurs to me on further thought is that in a very real sense both Hannah and Marnie have adopted their mothers' lives. Hannah's mother is an academic, who raised her kids in a relatively suburban setting with, as she now describes him, her best friend. Marnie's mother is a woman we've seen escape whenever she can into someone else's life, typically someone much younger than she is.

And yes: virgin, mother, crone. The three stages of Hollywood. Though we know Marnie is no virgin.

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She was wearing underwear. We saw her put them on, and could see them after she took off the jeans. thongs, maybe, so her ass was mostly bare, or else they just, you know, crawled up, wedgie style. It's all still gross, but she was, at least, wearing something under the jeans.

I don't know a single grown woman who would bathe in front of her mother unless they were ill and needed help or something, but Hannah has pretty much been shown to bathing in front of...everyone.

 

 

She was in need. Could she get in a tub by herself? Yes. Could she run her own water? Yes. But she had a greater psychological need and I see nothing wrong with her mother using that moment which is soothed by water in a warm bath, to get her daughter's ear and help her through this rough time.

If there are any women to take baths and get dressed in front of it's the women in your family, your mother and sisters. Now if they are sitting there staring at you salivating inappropriately, then we've gotta a perverted factor and a problem to say the least. But that is NOT what was shown at all in the scene with Hannah soaking in a tub while her mother spoke with her. She was trying to help her daughter who certainly needed it. I don't get the problem at all. Hannah's done a lot of gross things that I wouldn't do, but having my mother sit and talk with me in the bathroom as I soak in the tub, while she shares  her experiences as a new mother with me, sorry, I don't see anything weird about it.  Now sitting on those steps with her ass hanging out because those panties didn't provide much coverage, now that is a no for me, that's gross to me. Not her mother intent and focused on telling her child, her daughter, who is a new mother, that what she is going through with breast feeding is very normal. 

The girl putting on her pants, well, I didn't think she really needed them for starters. She looked like she had pants on, or were they pajama pants? It's not like she was in her undies, and it wasn't freezing cold out. But if there was a freaking natural disaster and she were left with nothing, yeah, not so much of a big deal to get a pair of jeans from a woman in skimpy undies. The jeans are several sizes too big for you so they won't touch your crotch anyway, but they'll keep your legs warmer.

Edited by Keepitmoving
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4 minutes ago, Keepitmoving said:

 

She was in need. Could she get in a tub by herself? Yes. Could she run her own water? Yes. But she had a greater psychological need and I see nothing wrong with her mother using that moment which is soothed by water in a warm bath, to get her daughter's ear and help her through this rough time.

If there are any women to take baths and get dressed in front of it's the women in your family, your mother and sisters. Now if they are sitting there staring at you salivating inappropriately, then we've gotta an perverted factor. But that is not what was shown at all in the scene with Hannah soaking in a tub while her mother spoke with her. She was trying to help her and daughter certainly needed it. I don't get the problem at all. Hannah's done a lot of gross things that I wouldn't do, but having my mother sit and talk with me in the bathroom as I soak in the tub, while she shares  her experiences as a new mother with me, sorry, I don't see anything weird about it.  Now sitting on those steps with her ass hanging out because those panties didn't provide much coverage, now that is a no for me, that's gross to me. Not her mother intent and focused on telling her child, her daughter, who is a new mother, that what she is going through with breast feeding is very normal. 

 

I didn't say that was gross or perverted or inappropriate, just that I don't personally know anyone who does that so casually, as Hannah does all the time, with family, friends, roommates. I would not, unless I was physically incapacitated. That's all. I also don't spoon in bed with my friends. Maybe I'm the weird one.

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14 minutes ago, luna1122 said:

I didn't say that was gross or perverted or inappropriate, just that I don't personally know anyone who does that so casually, as Hannah does all the time, with family, friends, roommates. I would not, unless I was physically incapacitated. That's all. I also don't spoon in bed with my friends. Maybe I'm the weird one.

No you are not, I don't spoon in bed with friends either. But Hannah seems to be touchy with everyone and there are no boundaries. Well not the boundaries I'm use to. She and Jessa have the least respect for boundaries IMO.It's just that out of all the people she is naked around, being naked in front of her mother is the least strange to me, other than when she naked in front of the significant others that she's been hooked up with. Now if she were a boy then of course no, that would be beyond weird to me. But it's just that mother and daughter connection and who I find it the least weird to be naked in front of other than significant others would be one's mother if you're a woman. Like if I saw something on my breast and I was concerned about it, I would show my mother and ask her what she thought. Just like Hannah called her mother when her urine was bloody.  I mean she was soaking in the tub, and rubbing her arms, I just didn't find that weird given the circumstances. 

Edited by Keepitmoving
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11 hours ago, Lemons said:

I hated the whole tired cliche about breastfeeding and freaking out over it. She has a lot more to think about like daycare, working, the babies father, living alone for the first time, being able to afford all of their needs. 

Yup, and that's what was so unfortunate about not just the episode but the series. There were few, if any, genuine stakes for anyone. Hannah may fuck up left and right but...what? Not much. She eventually stumbles into another job, another guy. The problem is not the stumbles -- it's that she's stumbling ever-upward without any serious falling backward. Even that old standard of "growing up," new motherhood, shows her complaining about isolation -- to two people, one of whom has literally glommed her entire life onto Hannah's and the other who has jumped on a plane because her daughter's support person asked, not because her daughter did. Hannah's not buffered from life, she's The Fricking Girl in the Plastic Fricking Bubble. The show even gave Hannah a home more than large enough to give a newborn his own room plus 1-2 guests at a time. Please. I'd take the story a lot more seriously if she and Marnie actually had to be in the same space simply because they lacked some square footage.

No. Stakes. I mean, look at Marnie. Her horror show of a life is a horror because? She has to live with her mother. THE HORROR. Sure, she had an unhappy relationship but ol' Marn has been doing precisely what she wanted. When she was singing along to "Fast Car," notice she neglected to sing, "Been workin' in a convenience store/managed to save just a little bit of money."

No. Stakes.

And about Hannah's disability: I hate it when a character's disability seems to exist as a gimmick or as a cheat for insight or drama (yeah, I'm looking at you, HOUSE). Hannah's disability has flared up when it served a plot point but she magically went from needing Adam to hand-feed her medication to...what? Has she been taking meds all this time? Was she able to stop at some point? Was ANY of that significant in these episodes that were all about pregnancy and breast-feeding?

Edited by heavysnaxx
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12 hours ago, TrininisaScorp said:

Well...Grover was so damn cute.  That's all I got.

Matias130, they never said in the show, but Riz, the actor that played him, is (I believe) British Pakistani.  Little Grover looks a lot like some of my little cousins (we're of Indian descent).   And I just want to squeeze his little cute face.  On this show, they don't address race much.

I'm glad I read somewhere last week that Lena said that was it for Shosh and Jessa, so I was prepared for a bottle episode, which is almost what that was.  It did, however, feel a bit like filler.  I kept looking at the clock while watching. 

Hannah is as annoying and as unlikable as ever, so that was consistent.  Her encounter with the annoying teen girl was probably my favorite part of the episode. The child was so terrible and Hannah being self righteous, yet the voice of reason, was hysterical.

I'm sorry there was no Elijah b/c I adore Andrew R. 

Marnie is always a little bit of a self-centered mess, but I'll be damned if she wasn't good with Grover.  I couldn't have lived my life without the selfies and her weird ass facetime sexy times. 

While I didn't love that episode, I will miss this weird show.  Even if I hated the characters and the nonsense ppl they were (and that no people of color live in hipster Brooklyn, apparently), I loved that the show had a point of view.  I didn't have to agree with that POV, but I appreciate the show existed. 

You summed up my feelings on this episode and show pretty well; thank you! 

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1 hour ago, slasherboy said:

 

Ok, I totally messed up the quote-thingy but here's the gist of it:  

Something about Hannah's disability.  What is her disability?  I know this question leaves me open to an abundance of funny replies, but I'm wondering if she had a legitimate disability.

 

I thought she was talking about her mental disability (which I wouldn't personally use the term "disability" for that but Hannah did) because she has OCD and I think anxiety too.  

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5 hours ago, DianeDobbler said:

She has said she wants to help other people realize their vision, and doesn't expect to be doing much acting. I now see that as Dunham really begging the industry to prove her wrong and hire her as an actress, or I see that as Dunham developing another project to star herself. We'll see, but I know longer believe what she says about herself and acting.

I think Lena's future is behind the camera.  As another poster said, based on Girls and Tiny Furniture it seems her acting range is limited to an over-the-top version of her true self.  And though it's only fiction, I'm hoping Grover makes it okay despite his Mom - and that Hannah eventually finds her way.  As others have said, it's a never-ending struggle.

Btw - thanks to the poster who referenced Hannah's under-treated or untreated mental illness.  Until the character mentioned it herself, I had actually forgotten it was an issue.  Looking back, it really does explain a lot, if not all, of Hannah's behavior.

Edited by Winston Wolfe
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"Nothing that happens on the show (be it amazing or terrible) can be attributed to Dunham's singular vision, and I certainly don't believe the story is fueled by imagined personal grievances.

I doubt anything on the show was fueled by an imagined personal grievance. A real one, perhaps. That's what I was speculating.

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I didn't love it.

I did love them starting with Hannah in bed with Marnie but I didn't like how lazy the "I'll help you!" to baby born time jump was. 

I watched the Girls ending special before I watched the show and I was reminded how fun and funny the show used to be! It made me sad that the best bits of the show, the togetherness of the somewhat ill-matched friends, the guys, were really absent this season. And as some of you have stated, she really did Jessa and Marnie's characters dirty. They didn't get the enormous country estate.

I get what they were trying to do with the bratty teen but she was too on the nose and her acting was absolutely horrible and took me out of the scene.

I felt it really lacked emotion. Even with the latching drama, I just didn't feel that she even wanted him to love her and connect to her. I would've even accepted one of her annoying lip-wobbling cries.

I almost think the series could have ended with last season's great finale--where she killed the spoken word thing and ran awkwardly into the sunset.

Edited by Kbilly
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1 hour ago, heavysnaxx said:

even gave Hannah a home more than large enough to give a newborn his own room plus 1-2 guests at a time. 

If her academic job had been a tad more realistic,  her biggest housing win would be getting an in-home washer and dryer because of Grover.

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I am surprised that so many people are saying that nothing happened. Last week we found out what was going to happen with all of the other characters and this week we saw how Hannah finally found her mom instinct.  We also saw that Marni has grown into a really good friend.  No one who is selfish would give up their life to help their friend take care of a baby.  I disagree with everyone who says that neither of these women have changed since the first episode. 

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30 minutes ago, metalgirl said:

We also saw that Marni has grown into a really good friend.  No one who is selfish would give up their life to help their friend take care of a baby.  I disagree with everyone who says that neither of these women have changed since the first episode. 

See, I don't look at Marnie's actions that way. I view her actions as fundamentally opportunistic. She didn't give up anything she valued; Hannah's situation provides her with free housing, minimal living expenses, and a convenient way to save face. She got her "little brown baby" to give her life meaning and make her look like a good person. And it's not a bad idea, at all, given that Hannah needs help. It's just not an unselfish act, in any way.

I really hope she doesn't pursue becoming a lawyer because lawyers don't like rules. They like finding the loopholes in them. 

1 hour ago, EdnasEdibles said:

I thought she was talking about her mental disability (which I wouldn't personally use the term "disability" for that but Hannah did) because she has OCD and I think anxiety too.  

I was talking about Hannah's magical (to me) mental health conditions, which I believe are anxiety and OCD. Both are considered disabilities, not that Hannah's obligated to use that term in connection with herself. I certainly don't think living with either means living in constant crisis, but Hannah's super-easy access to both talk therapy and the right meds are yet another example of the show's unquestioned Perks of Being Hannah. But somehow I'm supposed to believe Hannah has a pretty darn serious chronic health condition that merited less attention when pregnancy/post-partum period and its hormones entered the picture than her not being invited to someone's party. YEAH.

Edited by heavysnaxx
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Welp, that was that.

i almost started clapping when Loraine told Hannah what time it was. She's right, Hanna can't quit this one. I also found this season disappointing, the shows called Girls so I wanted more of everyone but instead it was extremely Hannahcentric. Plus, I may be in the minority, but I was really disappointed that Lena choose to end the series with Hannah being pregnant and focusing so much time on it. So many shows do this and to me it's just lazy writing. I wasn't expecting that from a show like Girls I thought better of it.

Best line of the night goes to the cop asking Hannah where her clothes were. 

"I just had a baby"

"Sounds about right"

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Please...no one give Allison Williams her own show...

Finale episode was just to end it with some closure or the fans wouldn't obsess endlessly about Grover, her postpartum transition into motherhood, any number of details.

Product placement winner: Bisquick

Best use of connecting a famous person to popular culture : Judge Patricia DiMango going on 5 Christian Mingle dates/week

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Marnie's original motivations for wanting to move in and help Hannah were certainly not unselfish or altruistic, but I think the fact that she stayed for five months, despite being yelled at and taken for granted and probably generally really bored, showed some signs of selflessness and sacrifice, as well as maturity. Marnie isn't exactly someone that sticks things out or takes all that long to bail on something when it's not going the way she wanted, and while she seemed to be a natural with Grover and it probably felt good to be so good at something again, I do think she ended up sticking around for so long because she saw just how out of her depth Hannah was. She called in Loraine when it became too much for her as well, but she had still planned on sticking around until Loraine pointed it out and suggested she needed to go.

So while I don't think Marnie is suddenly some mature adult making some totally selfless sacrifice for her best friend, I don't think she was doing it entirely for herself either. It showed some growth, even if just a little bit.

Edited by colorbars
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Ugh.

OK, let me start by saying I will kinda sorta miss Girls. Not any of the characters in particular, but just as a piece of iconography of its time (if that makes any sense). Sex and the City reflected its time to a degree, and so did Girls.

That being said, I didn't really like the finale, I didn't like this season, and I'll go as far as to say I didn't really like last season either.

First of all, good riddance and fuck right off to the walking mound of tapioca pudding known as Hannah Horvath. God and man is she a pain in the ass, and I can't for the life of me figure out why they wanted to end the series with her being a total fucking bitch to her best friend and mom. This show often conflated flawed characters with unlikable characters. That's why I never understood a lot of Jessa Hate -- she's plenty flawed, but I've found myself liking her to some degree more than I have Hannah...probably because the show doesn't seem to spare her as much as it did Hannah.

Instead of "Fast Car", I wish they would've been riding along to "Ain't It Fun" by Paramore. Hannah? Don't go cryin' to your mama when you're on your own in the real world. Bitch. In reality, when you talk fucked up to people and treat them like shit and yell at them and act like they're fucking up all the time and constantly view yourself as the victim...people tend not to stick around for another face full of shit. When you turn your ass up to people and storm off, they tend...to tell you to go fuck yourself with no lube, give you the finger, and go on about their lives.

I've never understood a lot of Marnie Hate, either, to be honest. She's been kind of annoying at times too, but I've always thought Allison Williams has a certain tenderness and grace and modesty to her that makes it hard for me to completely hate Marnie. Plus, I know a lot of people have said she looks emaciated, but uh...I gotta say those lingerie selfies were kinda doing it for me. And here's the thing, too: instead of flailing around all "my baby hates me!" why couldn't Hannah do what we saw Marnie doing which was READ A FUCKING BOOK ON PARENTING? That's why she was "better at it" than Hannah. I mean, that's what I'd do if I was going to have a baby. I'd get as many books and read as many articles as I could about what to expect and what to do. It wouldn't answer everything, but I would be able to be more focused and patient if I was armed with basic pre-natal information. But Hannah sitting there cussing Grover out like they're waiting for a good table at Cheesecake Factory because he's so over her tits is just...ugh. Stop being a basic bitch and read a book, Hannah. Jesus.

Loreen telling Hannah what she needed to hear was nice, but of course Hannah would get the last word. Why do these characters keep letting her hurt them? No, Hannah, if your dad wasn't gay and was still with your mom you'd probably still be a narcissistic piece of shit because apparently you've never had to worry about losing anything as a result of it. And by the way, Hannah? What does your dad being gay have to do with you spreading for a laidback surfer/stoner (but I repeat myself) who wanted nothing to do with your motherfucking ass when you told him your were pregnant with his baby? You're a grown ass woman when your dad came out and your mom has had to bare the brunt of it, but neither of them had anything to do with that decision. And by the way, neither did Marnie, Jessa, Adam, Shoshanna, or Elijah. Just you, bitch. #FOH. I wish that police officer would've arrested your stupid ass for indecent exposure or something.

Good luck to Marnie and Loreen. You will both be happier when you're not in Hannah's circumference. Hannah please go fuck yourself.

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1 hour ago, metalgirl said:

I am surprised that so many people are saying that nothing happened. Last week we found out what was going to happen with all of the other characters and this week we saw how Hannah finally found her mom instinct.  We also saw that Marni has grown into a really good friend.  No one who is selfish would give up their life to help their friend take care of a baby.  I disagree with everyone who says that neither of these women have changed since the first episode. 

I'm with you, in that I think everyone got where their story line begins as they step into adulthood, and that was a wrap for Girls. It's just that we won't be able to see those story lines play out. We

I don't know if I'm surprised unless you were a viewer who was looking for more scenes with each of the other girl's in terms of their individual lives and then all four of them interacting together. I wasn't necessarily looking for that, so having it focus more on Hannah was fine with me. I felt like Lena Dunham was down low saying this show is my show. I created it, it's my vision, and the vision is going to end with not all, but most of the focus on me.

I like that it didn't end like SATC, which was IMO cliche' satisfying. Where those four friends remained close, but then it actually made sense that those four women would remain close because they were 30/40 somethings. I think by the time the show ended Samantha at least was supposed to be in her 40's. These women were way ahead in every area of mature adulthood. Meanwhile, I find it very believable that these young twenty somethings on Girls would drift apart and not end up together. So a dance party where they are all in the room together dancing around yet, not really together, all fit well for me.  They still have a lot of maturing to do and that's why I would love a movie somewhere down the line to see if that continues to happen because as I see it, they are just beginning. I agree that Marnie, was just there with Hannah because she can't figure out what the hell to do with her life next, that was clear to me. Yes, plenty of work still ahead for all of these Girls IMO. I mean everyone is always a work in progress, but they all still seem particularly unstable to me, because they are just beginning. I know I've heard Lena say repeatedly that the show gets these girls at the stage in life where they are in between that period where you're not a girl, but you are still not an adult. I see the end of the series, these last few episodes, showing them just stepping into adulthood. That's where it ends and therefore, left me wanting more than I wanted from SATC in terms of follow-up. 

Edited by Keepitmoving
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I've avoided this show like the plague since I saw the pilot episode in 2012; for me it was a porn-y, Millennials version of Seinfeld and I hated Seinfeld when it was on. But there's not a whole hell of a lot of new tv on right now between Feb sweeps and May sweeps and how many repeats of Fixer Upper can you watch, so I decided to binge-watch Girls and see if it had gotten any better over the last 5 years. Overall impression, still a porn-y, Millennials version of Seinfeld, but this finale beats the finale of Seinfeld all to hell.

 

Now, off to watch Season 2 of Fortitude....

Edited by NeenerNeener
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Oh, when Marnie called Hannah a ghost buster because of that breast pump, I died laughing. I looked and thought, yes, that does look like the contraption they where.

Then the cop, saying something to the effect of 'seems about right' when Hannah says that she just had a baby as the reason why she was walking around barefoot in her undies, hilarious.

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2 hours ago, luna1122 said:

She was wearing underwear. We saw her put them on, and could see them after she took off the jeans. thongs, maybe, so her ass was mostly bare, or else they just, you know, crawled up, wedgie style. It's all still gross, but she was, at least, wearing something under the jeans.

Yeah, they were gray cotton briefs, we saw her put them on and I thought they were visible in her pants-less scenes.

2 hours ago, luna1122 said:

I didn't say that was gross or perverted or inappropriate, just that I don't personally know anyone who does that so casually, as Hannah does all the time, with family, friends, roommates. I would not, unless I was physically incapacitated. That's all. I also don't spoon in bed with my friends. Maybe I'm the weird one.

You're not the weird one. I've long accepted it as part of the world of this show, but the characters are comfortable with nudity in ways I've never seen in real life, and have very few physical boundaries. I know some people are more touchy and open about their bodies, and if it was only Hannah that was like this, that would be one thing. But it's all of them.

1 hour ago, nosleepforme said:

I don't get the negative response to the episode at all, I thought the finale was a pretty good episode in its own right and I don't think this episode was a filler episode, since it was an episode that showed Hannah struggling with early motherhood and slowly adjusting to the idea of what it means to be a mother, which is a pretty major development for her.

It's growing on me as an episode the longer I sit with it. I think I had some higher than usual expectations because it was the Series Finale, and that kept me waiting for something more. If I remove it from those extra expectations, I think it's a solid episode.

1 hour ago, DianeDobbler said:

I doubt anything on the show was fueled by an imagined personal grievance. A real one, perhaps. That's what I was speculating.

What I meant was that the audience sometimes imagines personal grievances that may not even exist when they go looking for ulterior motives behind the writing. Sorry, that was my awkward phrasing. 

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I chuckled at the cop scene, which was my favorite. His answer  "Sounds about right" was the summation of a cop whose probably heard every excuse there is (mostly lies and tales to get out of whatever) and finally knowing when the truth hits him. 

Marnie's chest actually looked concave when she was driving...not the best I've seen her. 

I really felt Hanna do an about face on her views of motherhood and life when she heard what was griping the teen in angst. She went into responsible adult mode versus single me mode. 

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I guess I am shallow and not able to interpret this correctly - because I found this to be the WORST finale of a show that I personally have ever seen.

I am going to remember last week's episode as the finale.  It made more sense.  Totally phoned in show last nite.  What a insult to fans that have followed this show since the beginning.

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14 hours ago, lidarose9 said:

 at one time or another all of us had found ourselves with a dick in our hand that we hadn't planned on.

That's one of the funniest things I've ever read.  Probably because it's true!  Thanks for the laugh, Lidarose9.

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Ugh.

Maybe it would be one thing if the "oh no the kid won't suckle, I am a terrible mom and therefore fail at life" storyline hadn't been done to death ...

... nope, I'd still be annoyed at the message that only motherhood confers adulthood and/or gives a woman's life meaning; and at the lack of the rest of the cast in the series finale of an ensemble show. 

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44 minutes ago, kieyra said:

Ugh.

Maybe it would be one thing if the "oh no the kid won't suckle, I am a terrible mom and therefore fail at life" storyline hadn't been done to death ...

... nope, I'd still be annoyed at the message that only motherhood confers adulthood and/or gives a woman's life meaning; and at the lack of the rest of the cast in the series finale of an ensemble show. 

Exactly. I was totally expecting more/different from Lena. 

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Okay.  I liked it.

I agree that it wasn't the most exciting finale, but I was okay with that.  I thought the penultimate episode wrapped up the friendships between the girls rather nicely, so I was fine with not seeing Jessa or Shoshanna or Elijah.  I thought Marnie latching (heh) herself onto Hannah and her baby as a way to avoid doing something with her own life was true to the character, and I loved how her control freak issues shined through that new age, super chill facade.  Marnie as a judge makes perfect sense, given how judgmental she is as a person.  Other career prospects for Marnie: yoga instructor, doula, or preschool teacher who sings "Fast Car" to the kids while playing an acoustic guitar.  I think she realized she is not that person, though, when she started talking about how much she loves rules.  I can see her going back to school and embracing her type A personality after she's had her fill of Hannah and Grover.

Hannah and Grover...that baby was adorable.  I liked the realistic portrayal of breastfeeding and how a mother looks and feels right after giving birth.  Hannah probably isn't getting any sleep, so it makes sense to me that she would be bitchy and snap at the people closest to her.  I liked the fight Hannah had with Loreen, and I liked Loreen telling Marnie that she never let her best friend go, and how she hates him now, because things went sour for them.  I thought there was actually some pretty powerful stuff in this episode. 

I know some people don't like the angle they took with Hannah having a baby and considered it a copout, but I didn't mind it.  And I say this as a happily childfree woman.  I don't know, it just didn't bother me.  I thought the last scene where Grover finally latches and Hannah has this look of astonishment and peace wash over her face was beautiful.  I personally don't find fulfillment or happiness in having kids, but a lot of people do, and I don't think this show romanticized it or held it up as the only way a woman can mature.  I think Marnie and Jessa matured without going the motherhood route.  Shoshanna is a different story, but only time will tell if she is truly happy with her decisions.

All in all, I enjoyed the series and I'm a little sad that it's gone.  I really want a movie in the future, but not a theatrical release.  An HBO movie would do just fine.  We could see Hannah moving back to the city when Grover is five, and trying to get him into a crunchy, progressive kindergarten, or something.  That would be fun.

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Truthfully, for me, this was the only character that had any character, Elijah. He made no pretenses about who he was. He was a friend that didn't use Hanna for selfish reasons.

7AKrzmhjgLly8.gif

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6 minutes ago, Hrairoo said:

Okay.  I liked it.

I agree that it wasn't the most exciting finale, but I was okay with that.  I thought the penultimate episode wrapped up the friendships between the girls rather nicely, so I was fine with not seeing Jessa or Shoshanna or Elijah.  I thought Marnie latching (heh) herself onto Hannah and her baby as a way to avoid doing something with her own life was true to the character, and I loved how her control freak issues shined through that new age, super chill facade.  Marnie as a judge makes perfect sense, given how judgmental she is as a person.  Other career prospects for Marnie: yoga instructor, doula, or preschool teacher who sings "Fast Car" to the kids while playing an acoustic guitar.  I think she realized she is not that person, though, when she started talking about how much she loves rules.  I can see her going back to school and embracing her type A personality after she's had her fill of Hannah and Grover.

Hannah and Grover...that baby was adorable.  I liked the realistic portrayal of breastfeeding and how a mother looks and feels right after giving birth.  Hannah probably isn't getting any sleep, so it makes sense to me that she would be bitchy and snap at the people closest to her.  I liked the fight Hannah had with Loreen, and I liked Loreen telling Marnie that she never let her best friend go, and how she hates him now, because things went sour for them.  I thought there was actually some pretty powerful stuff in this episode. 

I know some people don't like the angle they took with Hannah having a baby and considered it a copout, but I didn't mind it.  And I say this as a happily childfree woman.  I don't know, it just didn't bother me.  I thought the last scene where Grover finally latches and Hannah has this look of astonishment and peace wash over her face was beautiful.  I personally don't find fulfillment or happiness in having kids, but a lot of people do, and I don't think this show romanticized it or held it up as the only way a woman can mature.  I think Marnie and Jessa matured without going the motherhood route.  Shoshanna is a different story, but only time will tell if she is truly happy with her decisions.

All in all, I enjoyed the series and I'm a little sad that it's gone.  I really want a movie in the future, but not a theatrical release.  An HBO movie would do just fine.  We could see Hannah moving back to the city when Grover is five, and trying to get him into a crunchy, progressive kindergarten, or something.  That would be fun.

I believe that Shoshanna is truly happy with her decision, because she's slowly distanced herself from Hannah, Jessa and Marnie for the past couple of years now. I think the past year (or this season) just pointed out how much she really hasn't made the effort to keep in the loop with everyone. There are times when folks purposely stay away and not make folks aware that they're over the relationship.

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1 hour ago, kieyra said:

Ugh.

Maybe it would be one thing if the "oh no the kid won't suckle, I am a terrible mom and therefore fail at life" storyline hadn't been done to death ...

... nope, I'd still be annoyed at the message that only motherhood confers adulthood and/or gives a woman's life meaning; and at the lack of the rest of the cast in the series finale of an ensemble show. 

I don't think that was the message of this episode or this season. I think there is something to be said about showing a portrait of a woman's life and it including a baby, because Women Have Babies. It's one thing if it's more-or-less agitprop, but we're not in the 1950s. I think it's a stark reality for many women when they have a kid. The kid isn't going anywhere and you can't just bail on them when they don't do exactly what you want them to do. Some women, like Hannah, are used to doing that with every other aspect of their lives and that makes them ill-equipped to handle being a parent. For some women, having a kid does teach them a lesson that they probably wouldn't have gotten anywhere else, because of that exact reason. You do, in effect, have to grow up in order to be a parent. You can't be a temperamental little girl who throws hissy fits and storms off into the street just 'cuz.

Of course, the only way to become a mature adult is not to have a baby, but it's not a false message, either. I also think there's a version of it for men that doesn't really get explored on TV.

Edited by 27bored
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18 hours ago, Adultosaurus said:

Seems like you wanted unlikeable women to be somehow likeable afterall.  I know I did...and they weren't

I'm  a fan of shows that manage to pull off unlikeable but sympathetic. I adored 'Six Feet Under' and found myself wanting the Fishers and friends to succeed even though I hated every major character on the show at one point or another. And loved 'Please Like Me' even when the main characters seemed to draw straws for who got to be the biggest ass in a given episode. (Okay, it doesn't hurt that, unlike Lena, Josh Thomas really does his homework when he maps out an episode)

I was along for the ride on 'Girls' because my husband liked the show. And for me, the sympathetic just wasn't there for the most part. I think my husband got sick of my complaining that Adam needs to call in a Death Star strike and vaporize everyone but Shosh and possibly Elijah. 

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27 minutes ago, 27bored said:

Some women, like Hannah, are used to doing that with every other aspect of their lives and that makes them ill-equipped to handle being a parent. For some women, having a kid does teach them a lesson that they probably wouldn't have gotten anywhere else, because of that exact reason. You do, in effect, have to grow up in order to be a parent. You can't be a temperamental little girl who throws hissy fits and storms off into the street just 'cuz.

I have watched way too many episodes of "Teen Mom" to believe that for a minute. 

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We watched the pilot right before watching the finale, just for a comparison and it struck me how little most of the girls had changed at all except for Hannah. And I only say that about Hannah because she got rid of Adam. He's pretty bad in the pilot and  it seems that he changed a little for the better throughout the seasons.  In the pilot, Marnie was stringing that guy along who got super successful at the dot com before losing it all and becoming a junkie and the more he likes her, the more she runs. In the finale, she still is going after unattainable guys (online or the drug addict she briefly married). Shoshanna gives in to her shallowness by marrying a guy she barely knows so she can throw a party and flash a ring at everyone and Jessa is still an impulsive jerk. One of the first scenes in the pilot has Marnie and Hannah waking up together and spooning, so the finale opening scene was a nice call back I would have missed if I hadn't watched the pilot again.

Hannah was experiencing normal anxieties that are a part of early motherhood and responding in typical Hannah fashion. "My baby hates ME" as opposed to "Oh well, at least he's getting the nutrition he needs. Who cares how he gets it?" I found it annoying that we spent most of the episode on that.

My husband, who is an adjunct teacher, just could not get past her fancy house, cushy full time job with insurance and all without an MFA. I agree and I would have preferred her moving back home to her mother's house. That's a more realistic portrayal of the types of sacrifices that single mothers often have to make.

I'll miss this show. It was clever even when it was annoying. It was one of the few shows my husband and I watch together.

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53 minutes ago, 27bored said:

You do, in effect, have to grow up in order to be a parent. You can't be a temperamental little girl who throws hissy fits and storms off into the street just 'cuz.

I so wish this were true. But it so isn't. Hannah's gonna Hannah, and fortunately for her child, she is positively awash in unpaid, 24/7 childcare and has zero economic problems. She's the fricking upstate Lady Mary. She can -- did -- throw hissy fits throughout the episode.

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Well, that was girls. It ended as it began, with Hannah wandering around without her pants on. But, after giving it some thought, I found it to be a decently fitting finale to the show. Lots of rambling on about not much, with some funny lines, brief moments of clarity, and Lena's bare ass.

Hannah ending is a little cliché, but its not as bad as the end of Sex and the City, where literally everything ends as perfect as humanly possible, just short of Carrie discovering the cure to cancer. I'm not counting the movies, because...they sucked. This at least left some thing vague or unfinished. Especially here, considering we only saw three characters in the whole damn episode. We did at least see some real growth and self awareness from Hannah, and while the rest of the Girls haven't changed very much, our main Girl has actually made a few teeny, tiny steps towards adulthood, even if she still ends up inevitably wandering around her neighborhood half naked. Some things will never change.

Hannah's baby was pretty cute, and I'm not normally a huge baby person (I know, I'm an ice queen, I just think they look kind of weird until about age 2!) but he was a pretty adorable little thing, especially when Marnie was wrapping him up like a baby burrito. It figures Marnie would like babies and be good with them. A human who totally depends on and worships her!

I've always had a complicated relationship with this show, mainly because its usually been treated as some kind Millennial Manifesto, and, as an actual Millennial Girl who is about the same age as Hannah and the gang (I'm a few years younger), I occasionally get a bit...offended by how often people who aren't that age look at this show and say "yes, this is what The Young People are like, these damn kids etc" because, to me, its really more of a parody of millennial "types" than any real commentary on 20 somethings coming of age in the modern era. There are definitely some things about this show and its characters that ring true, but it seems to mostly focus on the worst aspect of this generation, while mostly ignoring the more positive aspects, by focusing on these unbelievably privileged assholes. Which I get, because its a comedy and its more funny to focus on those aspects, but still, its annoying to meet so many people from older generations who act amazed that I can have a conversation with them without talking about myself the entire time, or awkwardly making sex jokes. So, I was frequently frustrated by the show, while also enjoying it for what it was. I think I'm actually going to miss it, no matter how much it makes me want to smack its characters in the head.

So, this episode was kind of boring, but I thought it worked alright as a coda to the whole series, although I would have liked a few small updates on everyone else (is Elijah's play a success? Did Shosh actually get married? Are Adam and Jessa still a thing? How's Rays new coffee empire fairing?) but I guess its alright that its left hanging. Most everyone left in an alright place, even if they didn't really change very much.

Actually, for a show called Girls, its the male characters that have had real character development. Adam became less of a deranged asshole, Elijah decided to follow his dreams, Ray found some purpose in life, and Hannah's dad came out and is living as a gay man. While the Girls are basically the same as always, just a little more stable.

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1 hour ago, vixenbynight said:

I believe that Shoshanna is truly happy with her decision, because she's slowly distanced herself from Hannah, Jessa and Marnie for the past couple of years now. I think the past year (or this season) just pointed out how much she really hasn't made the effort to keep in the loop with everyone. There are times when folks purposely stay away and not make folks aware that they're over the relationship.

I didn't blame Shosh at all for cutting ties with the girls, but the way she went about it at the party came off as condescending and smug.  I know she was annoyed that Hannah showed up unexpectedly, but if she were really mature, she would have handled it better.  Instead, she just went off on this, "Here are the reasons I'm better than the rest of you" rant.  So, to me, it's still a question mark on whether she is truly happy, or if she is running this imaginary race against everyone.

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On the same vein of the Ray and Abigail's "Would you rather" question...

Would you rather be the person with the unplanned dick in your hand or the person attached to that dick....

 

(posted in homage to lidarose9's adage)

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