S01.E16: Party Lines

[jhlipton]

Senator Smirky (Bowman) introduced what's known as a "poison pill" bill -- it looks like it's in favor of one issue, but has enough "poison" in it that politicians who should be lining up to vote for it vote against it.  Then their opponent can say "Politician X says they're in favor of [some issue], but why did they then vote against this bill?"

 

On 4/12/2017 at 9:50 PM, Cthulhudrew said:

If anyone ever actually describes why it's flawed, finish the bottle.

They said that it was flawed because on one side, it had far too many loopholes, and on the other was a "slippery slope" bill.

 

On 4/12/2017 at 11:43 PM, Driad said:

When did the third rail of politics become gun control instead of Social Security?

There are more than one "third rails" in American politics.

[legaleagle53]

On 4/14/2017 at 0:57 PM, Tabasco Cat said:

I cringed when Kirkman mentioned, "The great state of Massachusetts". When did it stop being a commonwealth?

Only Massachusetts, Kentucky, Virginia, and Pennsylvania refer to themselves as commonwealths.  To everyone else, they're states the same as any other state.  There's no practical distinction between the two terms as far as those four entities are concerned.

Edited April 17, 2017 by legaleagle53

[OtterMommy]

11 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

Only Massachusetts, Kentucky, Virginia, and Pennsylvania refer to themselves as commonwealths.  To everyone else, they're states the same as any other state.  There's no practical distinction between the two terms as far as those four entities are concerned.

This is true, but it is still--how should I put this?--something that is corrected by a citizen of one of those commonwealths when someone refers to them as a state.  (I'm from a state that calls itself a state, but I have lived in both Virginia and Massachusetts and was corrected every.single.time. I referred to either as a state).

[Tabasco Cat]

10 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

Only Massachusetts, Kentucky, Virginia, and Pennsylvania refer to themselves as commonwealths.  To everyone else, they're states the same as any other state.  There's no practical distinction between the two terms as far as those four entities are concerned.

They are effectively states, as in part of the United States. I was born in Virginia and lived there for a couple of months as an infant. My birth certificate says, "Commonwealth of Virginia", and I don't hesitate to correct people who get it wrong. The writers for a fictional TV show should know this, but they think a video recording has enough contrast and resolution to pick up fingerprints on a glass 10 feet away in dim light, so I'm aware of the fact that they're not very smart.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

 

Riveting Television On Designated Survivor?

Yes, but we're not the ones watching it.

[j5cochran]

13 hours ago, Tara Ariano said:

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

 

Riveting Television On Designated Survivor?

Yes, but we're not the ones watching it.

8   President Pro Tempore of the Senate

So far as I can tell, Senator Bowman of Montana is not the President Pro Temp of the Senate.  The usual setup is that the President Pro Temp is the oldest member of the majority party of the senate.  In real life, the current one is Orrin Hatch of Utah.  Senator Bowman looks far from the oldest senator shown on the screen during the vote.

 

3   Attorney General

"So it looks like the conspiracy isn't done yet. In unrelated news, somebody should tell whoever chose the establishing shot of North Dakota that Badlands National Park is in South Dakota."

Actually, there are three extensive sections of (lower-case) badlands in Theodore Roosevelt National Park in North Dakota.  Not perhaps the best establishing shot on behalf of the show, since most folks who recognized the badlands would assume that it was the Badlands National Park of South Dakota.

[Roseanna]

As I am not an American, there were many things that astonished me. How can a bill that isn't accepted by the former Senate, can be taken anew by the new Senate? Why can't the President present his own bill but must simply accept the Senat's bill? And how can House alter the bill that the Senate has accepted?  

And I couldn't help but roll my eyes when I saw how old-fashioned and time-wasting the voting in the Senate was. One can see in the voting machine who votes yes or no!

As for Kirkman, he is as naive as before which begins to be quite boring. 

And Hannah wants to make all by herself and only accepts Atwood whose instability was clearly shown in the former episode.

Are we really suppose to believe that the private security firm was so much angered after it lost the government's treaties that it killed the President, government and the Congress? A ridiculous motive.    

Edited April 19, 2017 by Roseanna
Correcting the first sentence

[jhlipton]

14 hours ago, Roseanna said:

As I am not an American, there were many things that astonished me. How can a bill that isn't accepted by the former Senate, can be taken anew by the new Senate? Why can't the President present his own bill but must simply accept the Senat's bill? And how can House alter the bill that the Senate has accepted?  

And I couldn't help but roll my eyes when I saw how old-fashioned and time-wasting the voting in the Senate was. One can see in the voting machine who votes yes or no?

This is a long but  good description: How a bill becomes law

This is shorter but only describes House bills: Steps for a House bill

Most bills sent to committee die there.  However, many, like the bill on the show can be tabled.  The bill is still active, but won't go anywhere.  But now Senator Smirky gets the committee to approve the bill, which forces it to the Senate floor.  Once it's approved by the Senate, it gets voted on by the House.  If the two chambers pass different bills, it goes to a combined committee.  It then goes to the President.  If he vetoes the bill, the Senate in this case) can over-ride his veto.

The President can urge and encourage bills but can't originate them.  The Affordable Care Act for example is called ObamaCare but was passed under H.R. 3590, a House bill.

As far as the vote, most votes are done by voice; most of the rest by electronic vote.  However, any member can ask for a "roll call" vote, which is what we saw here.

[Roseanna]

5 hours ago, jhlipton said:

This is a long but  good description: How a bill becomes law

This is shorter but only describes House bills: Steps for a House bill

Most bills sent to committee die there.  However, many, like the bill on the show can be tabled.  The bill is still active, but won't go anywhere.  But now Senator Smirky gets the committee to approve the bill, which forces it to the Senate floor.  Once it's approved by the Senate, it gets voted on by the House.  If the two chambers pass different bills, it goes to a combined committee.  It then goes to the President.  If he vetoes the bill, the Senate in this case) can over-ride his veto.

The President can urge and encourage bills but can't originate them.  The Affordable Care Act for example is called ObamaCare but was passed under H.R. 3590, a House bill.

As far as the vote, most votes are done by voice; most of the rest by electronic vote.  However, any member can ask for a "roll call" vote, which is what we saw here.

Thank you very much!

I suppose that if the bill that rises controversy there would be very long speeches before voting. Is there any time limit how long braking can go?

I could believe that in the state of national emergency, partylines wouldn't matter or at least mattered less. The trouble in the show is that people seems to have no sense of emergency.  

[Roseanna]

On ‎13‎.‎4‎.‎2017 at 5:15 PM, Princess Lucky said:

So true about the MacLeishes. They were such fun, interesting characters and no one mentions them anymore. What does the general public think about their deaths, again? I think something about marital problems? Is that enough? Is the press buying that? Why? And what about Hannah? Why not dig into their past (some more) to get some leads on the conspiracy, now that Miss Kidnapper is gone?

Maybe Mr Pulitzer-winner is doing it? Unfortunately we haven't seen him anew. I think that when a new charcater is presented, he/she shouldn't just be forgotten in the next episodes.

Even more frustrating is that the enemies are killed in the moment they they are revealed. 

The strangest thing is that Hannah, Mike and the POTUS seems to have forgotten that there is a mole inside the White House who had so high security rights that he/she could cancel the General's rights to see the Capitol blowing-up scheme. Somebody should focuse on trying to identify him/her.

[jhlipton]

4 hours ago, Roseanna said:

I could believe that in the state of national emergency, partylines wouldn't matter or at least mattered less. The trouble in the show is that people seems to have no sense of emergency.  

We're getting into the realm of Real World politics here.  Suffice it to say that there are plenty of examples where Congress-Critters let party lines over-ride what needed to be done for an emergency.  If you want to know more, please send me a message.

[TedisnotTed2]

When the heck did this show become The West Wing? And they send two people to North Dakota when they have absolutely no idea who is there -- other than this mysterious cabal who up to this point has totally kicked their asses at every turn? Can't this show just commit to being absurdist fantasy? They don't seem to understand what any of their characters are supposed to be doing. Maggie Q should be kicking someone's ass every episode -- what's more realistic than a 98 pound FBI agent beating up some special forces goon? Reed Diamond has to be evil -- hope he's evil in real life too. President Bauer has to lose it at some point to show he's not a total wimp. At least they kept the annoying family stuff off. That's the worst. Bring back that general -- at least he had some spine.

[Roseanna]

20 hours ago, jhlipton said:

We're getting into the realm of Real World politics here.  Suffice it to say that there are plenty of examples where Congress-Critters let party lines over-ride what needed to be done for an emergency. 

I know that, but also the opposite is sometimes true (at least in my country).

In any case, the problem in the show that Kirkman knows that there is blowing-up Capitol and his own assassination attempt weren't isolated happenings but there is a conspiracy and the VP and his wife were members and there is also a mole inside White House and what does he do? He orders Hannah to investigate but he himself concentrates on doing "politics as usual" which, worst of all, simply isn't interesting. 

[Roseanna]

17 hours ago, TedisnotTed2 said:

When the heck did this show become The West Wing? And they send two people to North Dakota when they have absolutely no idea who is there -- other than this mysterious cabal who up to this point has totally kicked their asses at every turn? Can't this show just commit to being absurdist fantasy? They don't seem to understand what any of their characters are supposed to be doing. Maggie Q should be kicking someone's ass every episode -- what's more realistic than a 98 pound FBI agent beating up some special forces goon? Reed Diamond has to be evil -- hope he's evil in real life too. President Bauer has to lose it at some point to show he's not a total wimp. At least they kept the annoying family stuff off. That's the worst. Bring back that general -- at least he had some spine.

I agree. I wouldn't mind to watch a "unrealist" show if its world was consistent and there was real excitement. 

I wouldn't mind a faceless enemy, either - but this show was better when Catalan, the VP and his wife and the Mysterious Lady were alive and scheming. 

[Roseanna]

One more thing: are suppose to believe that there was no survellaince camera in the underground stock when even Mysterioys Lady had one?

[Dowel Jones]

2 hours ago, femmefan1946 said:

By any chance, was that the Diefenbunker?

"It served as Canadian Forces Station Carp until 1994."    Ah, those Canadians and their obsession with fish....

[femmefan1946]

<giggle> It's actually the name of the nearby town. An exurb of Ottawa. And pronounced 'Kayrp'.

[Superpole2000]

On 4/20/2017 at 10:25 AM, TedisnotTed2 said:

When the heck did this show become The West Wing? And they send two people to North Dakota when they have absolutely no idea who is there -- other than this mysterious cabal who up to this point has totally kicked their asses at every turn? Can't this show just commit to being absurdist fantasy? They don't seem to understand what any of their characters are supposed to be doing. Maggie Q should be kicking someone's ass every episode -- what's more realistic than a 98 pound FBI agent beating up some special forces goon? Reed Diamond has to be evil -- hope he's evil in real life too. President Bauer has to lose it at some point to show he's not a total wimp. At least they kept the annoying family stuff off. That's the worst. Bring back that general -- at least he had some spine.

Yes. This show is very strange. How on earth is this new President at all comfortable enough with security that he is proceeding to discuss bills? Gun control isn't the problem here. The problem is that the Capitol was blown apart, the VP was just killed, and the President himself was just shot. Priorities #1, #2, and #3 are to find who is doing all of this. Nothing else matters. Every person in the USA would be focused on assassinations and bombings.

So I find it outrageous that the FBI has dedicated TWO people to investigate this overwhelming crisis. They should have a team of thousands working on this. There is no way two people should be sent into this bomb silo...and certainly no way that anyone important should be sent into this unknown area. Where are the expendable red shirts? And why is this show not connecting the FBI investigation to the President? Bauer should be in on all of this investigation because this should be his entire job right now.

[John Potts]

Yes, Mrs Kirkman, Seth spoke to you in case you screwed things up by intervening. Well, I think her intervention was pretty much a wash, but it's not like her intervention was welcome by the President's staff.

Take backup? Have you been watching the same show!? Nikita works alone! Though when they arrived in the field, I couldn't help being reminded of 24 (Season 1).

Oh no you DIDN'T! You don't threaten Kimble Hookstraten!
But el Presidente really should have determined the price he was going to pay for her support.

I know we're in an imaginary world - but a Democrat carried Texas by 60 points? WTF!?
I'm not up on all the political processes, but is there a reason why the Senate can't amend a "flawed" Bill? It's not as if they had a Bill the House had passed (which would have led to possibly long delays as the Bill went through negotiations between the two Chambers) and, as far as I can tell, Senators are allowed to amend Bills before them, so why was it all, "Yeah, we'll ix that when it gets to the House"?
Sorry, NOBODY ASKED the Senator's widow!?

On ‎4‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 1:49 AM, marinw said:

So Kimble dosn't want to be VEEP? I can't figure out what her end game is, and that's a good thing.

She's already said she plans to run against him come the next election. It would be hard to run against somebody if you were their VP.

On ‎4‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 4:06 AM, Danielg342 said:

Side point- is it legal for President Kirkman to offer an administration position to a Senator in exchange for her vote? Seems like an ethics concern to me.

Pretty sure it's standard Washington horse trading (which doesn't mean it's actually legal!) - it's not that different from what happened on The West Wing.

On ‎4‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 3:15 PM, Princess Lucky said:

So true about the MacLeishes. They were such fun, interesting characters and no one mentions them anymore. What does the general public think about their deaths, again?

I'd love to know if they've actually sweated out the guy McLeish was actually there to meet. OK, we know they were both involved in a (probably CIA sponsored) war crime, but was there anything else? Was he blackmailing Mr Vice President? Was it just sentiment? Were they responsible for any other illegal actions? You'd think these would be the sort of things they'd be tearing into, but apparently nobody in the FBI cares.

On ‎4‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 3:26 PM, waving feather said:

They spent a bloody good 10 minutes showing the "live" vote. Is that supposed to be suspenseful?

As soon as they started showing the vote, it was obvious somebody was going to flip. Or rather, vote the way she was always going to vote, because nobody had asked her (I know I've already mentioned that, but it's so dumb, it bears saying twice)!

On ‎4‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 7:20 PM, blackwing said:

I do have a question... why were some of the Senators address as "Mr." or "Ms." and why were some addressed as "Senator"?

I wondered that too!

On ‎4‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 6:29 PM, tvfanatic13 said:

Who is the actor playing Bowman and where have I seen him?

On ‎4‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 6:39 PM, Princess Lucky said:

His name is Mark Deklin.

I could have sworn it was Casper van Dien (but I checked and you're correct)!