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Farscape

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Yes, a Farscape section! I missed the original run and only became obsessed with the show in the last year. Sucks that I missed out on so much, including the rewatches and re-rewatches. I'm ambivalent on the possibility of another movie, though. It would have a lot to live up to. I hope that this Farscape section is more busy than the one on TWoP has been. I have no one to talk to about this show.

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I caught the end of the live broadcast and kept up somewhat with what had happened before through TWOP. Checked back in when I started watching from the beginning on Prime, but all the topics were locked. Currently watching Season two and looking forward to new discussions here.

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Pretty much been my favorite show since it aired.  One of those "I notice something new on every rewatch" kind of shows so I'm always down to chat with new scapers. 

EDIT:  Something I thought might be cool here, if the mods don't mind it and if the traffic to the section increases enough to warrant it, are separate episode threads for newbies vs. veterans.  I was thinking of doing another rewatch soon and I know I have a hard time talking about earlier episodes without bringing up stuff that's foreshadowing to me, and spoilers to new Scapers.  I had the idea when we did that big re-watch on TWoP a few years back and seeing how they are doing separate episode threads in the Game of Thrones forums for book readers and non-book peeps, it seems like it might work. 

Just tossing it out there.  It's probably too early to tell if it would even be useful.

Edited by millahnna

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Still my fave show period. I keep thinking I'll do another rewatch but life gets in my way. I still get fan girl goofy about this show.

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I'm currently doing a rewatch. I was worried the show wouldn't hold up, but it does! All the characters are still so strong and interesting. Chiana has just come onboard the ship

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Something I thought might be cool here, if the mods don't mind it and if the traffic to the section increases enough to warrant it, are separate episode threads for newbies vs. veterans.  I was thinking of doing another rewatch soon and I know I have a hard time talking about earlier episodes without bringing up stuff that's foreshadowing to me, and spoilers to new Scapers.  I had the idea when we did that big re-watch on TWoP a few years back and seeing how they are doing separate episode threads in the Game of Thrones forums for book readers and non-book peeps, it seems like it might work.

I don't think that would be a problem, there's a Firefly rewatch going on right now, the SG1 people are planning one as well and we just finished one for Veronica Mars, the way we handled spoilers those was similar to the way we handle them for shows like House of Cards, just spoiler tag anything that's something beyond the current episode. I don't think we'd be opposed to 2 topics per episode but also just spoiler tagging things seems to be working and keeps everyone in the same conversation.

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Farscape currently is on the Pivot network, can be seen nightly and either Monday or Tuesday nights they play 4 shows per night.

I heard a Farscape movie is being discussed, it will continue from the stories in the comics, which I haven't read and need to buy.

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I adore this show, but I confess I've watched it so many times, over the years, that I look up at the DVDs on my shelf these days, and have no desire to stick them on. 

I was also curiously unmoved by the John/Aeryn romance, as it progressed. I found it interesting to begin with, and a pair worth rooting for, but I slowly got bored of it, and by the time the two Crichtons turned up, I was pretty much over the whole thing and preferred to see John in scenes with Chiana, with that wonderfully twisted 'slightly sibling-y but we'd still love to fuck' vibe they had. Or his bromance scenes with D'Argo (a favourite: John asks D'Argo to be his best man and his response is, "...Uh... I'm with Chiana now, John."

As a result, Moya John was always the real, original John, in my eyes. Talyn John was the copy, and so I think I took his death very differently than most viewers did. I was just pleased that original John had been the one to survive. And I know they were both original John, but neither of them believed it. Just your typical Farscape weirdness.

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I adore this show, but I confess I've watched it so many times, over the years, that I look up at the DVDs on my shelf these days, and have no desire to stick them on. 

...preferred to see John in scenes with Chiana, with that wonderfully twisted 'slightly sibling-y but we'd still love to fuck' vibe they had. Or his bromance scenes with D'Argo (a favourite: John asks D'Argo to be his best man and his response is, "...Uh... I'm with Chiana now, John."

As a result, Moya John was always the real, original John, in my eyes.

For me it's not so much that I can't bring myself to put in the DVDs but I do rarely do entire series rewatches anymore.  I skip fairly large portions of early season one and then episodes here and there throughout the rest of the series, at large.  Truthfully, I just don't have the time.  I'd say I probably end up rewatching anywhere from 1/4 to 2/3 of the episodes, depending on my mood.  Sometimes I just do a Skiffy style themed marathon and only do, say, shipper episodes or a couple of the trilogies.  I find it kind of amusing to pick a theme and try to distill it to 10 episodes or less if I can.  So the ten most important Scorpy episodes... family episodes, freakiest aliens, etc. Hmmm... thread idea?

I'm a die hard John and Aeryn shipper (this is the show that turned me into any kind of shipper to begin with, really) but I love that stuff with Chiana and that's a good description of it.  Also, regarding the Dargo bromance... tell him who his daddy is. 

I've always thought of the two Johns as both being copies.  In my mind, I guess as a fanwank to the dialogue of the dude that made the copies (distinct and original or whatever it was), the original was destroyed to make the two copies.  Do we have a better thread for that (episode, season 3, John as a Character, not sure which would be best here)?  It's kind of an interesting logic train that lead me to that. 

Edited by millahnna
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I know that techincally there has to be an original or "real" John but for me I never thought of it that way.  Generally I would.  In every single case on any tv show where there was a copy, there would always be the the "real" one and the "copy".  For some reason on this show I accepted both of them as the real Crichtons.  My brain fights with itself thinking that though. Even now as I'm trying to explain it part of me is like "NO!  There is a real one and there is a copy.  There can be only one!"  But the way I feel about it is that they were both Crichton.

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Perhaps I had trouble buying Talyn John as real because he was actually happy and had finally got what he wanted, with Aeryn. And that, sir, is  no John Crichton that I'm familiar with!

Moya John was just as messed up and frustrated and occasionally whiny as John always had been, and so felt far more familiar to me.

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So we were talking about the two Johns and copy vs. real one over in social talk and on the off chance we ever get an unspoiled person in there I figured we could use a character thread, since that seemed like the most logical place to talk about our various thoughts on the two Johns and such.

So I've always thought of both Talyn and Moya John as copies of an original who got destroyed when he was "twinned" in Season 3's "Eat Me".   The scientist whackamole who did the twinning made two points that brought me to that.  The first is that bit of dialogue we all know so well when the topic of clones is brought up (distinct and original or whatever it is, this point is echoed by Jool in a later episode when she runs tests on both Johns).  This dialogue really went out of its way to separate the concept of  "twinning" from the more conventional sci fi theme of "cloning". 

The second is when the aforementioned whackamole notes that over time the twinning process caused various genetic defects, which we see in the cannibalistic former Peacekeepers running around like feral chimps all episode.  Now this does go back to the classic sci fi cloning tropes; genetic weakness over time with each cloned generation.  So cloning a clone of a clone of a clone and so could be bad news... It's a pretty common sci fi trope, right? 

One might interpret all of this as general but unspecified Farscape weirdness.  But one thing Farscape showed a knack for on day one and never let up with was taking conventional sci fi themes (and those of more general fiction for that matter) and not just turning them on their ear but, if you will, sling-shotting them to the far side of the galaxy. I think that though it was never really spelled out, that was the intent here.  You tie the "no it's not cloning it's twinning" thing to the "except these genetic issues are kind of like cloning side effects" and what you end up with, if you're me, is that twinning destroys the original to make two copies.

I fully think that the literal, physical John Crichton we met in Premiere is dead by the end of Eat Me leaving his two perfect copies in his place.  And since Chiana and D'Argo were also twinned that episode, I think it's true of them as well. 

 

Emailed David to fix thread title because I apparently can't spell the name of the lead character in my favorite show. Headdesk.

Edited by millahnna

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I didn't watch this show until fall of 2012 and like some of you have mentioned I felt so left out!! I actually joined TWOP wanting to discuss it only to find the topics all locked. Would have loved someone to discuss it while I was watching it the first time, it was a hell of a ride! I had seen season 1 years before and was kind of "YAWWWN" about it. But when Netflix added it to Instant streaming I finally decided to "slog" through it... but got addicted mid season 2.  By season 3 I was just watching one after another after another... WHEEEE!!!!

Really wish I had caught it when it first aired, but I was a freshman in college and while I remember seeing ads for it on Sci Fi, they always seemed kind of weird to me... it just looked crazy, the ads were usually loud with a lot of yelling in strange Aussie accents, I was just like WTF is this? I did see a couple of season 2 episodes and didn't dislike them, but out of context they weren't enough to draw me in. OH WELL! REALLY loved it when I was able to stream it on Netflix.

I've been trying to get some friends tow atch it too but season 1 is kind of a drag and so far nobody has really taken to it. But I was the same way.

I'm deifnitely a John/Aeryn shipper, that to me was the main draw of most of the series, well that and I love the humor most of the time. I started re-watching immediately after I finished but it was removed from Netflix for a time, and I was too lazy to put on the DVDs I had purchased due to that "emergency", so only picked it back up now. I'm in season 4 and find myself kind of losing interest in some of the episodes, I guess because I already know what's going to happen, but when I do give it my attention it's still great!! LOL. The whole John/Aeryn relationship just had me on a rollercoaster and I kept getting punched in the gut over it. It was very well done.. up until about season 4 when I think they sort of went the wrong way and missed some opportunities IMO.

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I really like the idea that neither one of them was a copy. Even though that seems like it can't be true ;) Which is probably why I like it. I thought they were trying to say "don't bother determining which one is THE COPY - because neither one is" to make sure you invested equally in both.

I was surprised when they didn't kill one of the two Johns by the end of the episode. That is ALWAYS what happens in these types of episodes on other series (I'm reminded of a ST:V episode where some creature is created that is an amalgam of 2 of the characters - it is both characters in one, and neither exist independently, and after a while becomes accepted as an individual member of the crew. Until, of course, it inevitably has to be destroyed in order to allow the 2 original characters to "live" again, once they found a "cure", before the credits roll).

So then I settled in and was kind of enjoying the lark of there being 2 Johns in 2 different places, and squee'd with glee when Talyn John and Aeryn became an item. Then a few episodes in I realized hm, they just can't continue like this for the rest of the series. And that's when the terrible truth hit me: only one John could ultimately survive, and IT WASN'T GONNA BE THE HAPPY ONE. Obviously. And thus I just began to wince every Talyn episode waiting for the moment when TJ would bite the dust. OH SO MANY TEARS.

ps: my screen name comes from I think the first Scorpy episode, when Aeryn busts in to save John (and Stark is with him) and I think Stark asks who she is and John says "THAT is the radiant Aeryn Sun".

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I bought the idea that original John was just duplicated, and that there were two original Johns, who had the same memories, life experiences, physcial and mental makeup and everything. For me, the fact that they both survived the episode just proved that they were both 'real'.

But despite that, I still came to see Moya John as the real one, and Talyn John as the copy, due to my preferences. I was kind of bored of John/Aeryn by this point, and while I still sort of rooted for them, I wasn't really invested and tended to find more in John's interactions with other characters. I even enjoyed the bit of flirtation he had with Sikozu (a character I really liked. I may be the only one who did) in the first few episodes of season 4.

Anyway, so I thought Moya John was the real one, because I was more invested in his plight, as the guy left behind on Moya, being grumpy and sulky with D'Argo, Chiana and Jool. Talyn John got all that he wanted, by finally getting together with Aeryn, and by being blissfully happy in... was it Meltdown? Perhaps part of it was, as RadiantAerynSun says, because I knew somewhere that Talyn John was going to bite it, so subconsciously marked him off as temporary anyway.

But I really enjoyed the Moya episodes more. Losing Time and Scratch and Sniff were two completely loopy episodes that really summed up what the show was about, for me. And I frelling loved Avenging Angel, the Loony Tunes episode. In comparison, I found the Talyn episodes a bit dull and a bit too cookie cutter scifi.

On another John Crichton related topic, I have to say, this character must have had one of the most extreme, convoluted and yet satisfying character arcs in all of science fiction television (and probably most other types of television too). Remember what he was like in the pilot? The goofy, beige flightsuit wearing goober who was goggling at everything and was just generally lost and helpless? Then think about him as the black leather wearing badass, capable of getting two great, warlike civilisations to stand down and shut up. Then think of everything that happened in between. Amazing stuff.

Edited by Danny Franks
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Haha I am the total opposite, I found the Moya John episodes tedious! but that's the shipper in me I guess LOL.

And yeah, he definitely went through some MAJOR character development.

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I adore this show, but I confess I've watched it so many times, over the years, that I look up at the DVDs on my shelf these days, and have no desire to stick them on. 

I was also curiously unmoved by the John/Aeryn romance, as it progressed. I found it interesting to begin with, and a pair worth rooting for, but I slowly got bored of it, and by the time the two Crichtons turned up, I was pretty much over the whole thing [..]

I'm in S3 of my rewatch, and I know what you mean! I enjoyed the romance in the previous seasons, but it's become too much. Though so far I think S3 is weaker overall. It seems like they ran out of ideas. I don't even remember Jool. Maybe I blocked it out, but her inclusion has changed the show's tone and quality. I can't stand all the bickering and childishness. Yes it was there before, but it's really been ramped up, and the characters seem more infantile. She doesn't have much of a role and isn't a well defined character.

I miss Zhaan :( Her loss really changed things imo, and I wasn't expecting that. The crew seems unbalanced.

Maybe it'll pick up but tbh, I can see why it was cancelled. Though like Firefly, it's an interesting world that could be resurrected with new characters.

Edited by greenbean

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I didn't think either was a copy either. I think the show went to that point when they showed the dead-John hologram playing rock paper sissors with live-John. It was an important scene and more importantly that Aeryn saw this too. 

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I used to *run* home for 5 pm to watch Farscape because the network didn't have a west coast feed back then. When the show was cancelled before its time, starting a trend on the network that they had no clue how to manage and produce shows; cf., every show ever after Farscape, I always thought that this could be a Star Trek-like franchise. Star Trek I didn't come out till long after the tv show ended, even though the fan base remained strong, and that was way way back then. I don't see why this couldn't happen here. The show universe is pretty rich and fully formed, with as many sentient beings out there, surely, as least as much as Star Trek. 

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I didn't watch this live and had the sort of weird experience of being a Stargate and a Farscape fan.  I still am and find a lot of value in both shows, they aren't the same, but I value them for different reasons.  

The thing with FarScape and why my rewatches are less frequent is that it benefits so much from total immersion.  Just being there with the story.  In the Uncharted Territories, shutting out all other forms of escapism and just hanging with these character, in that world.  It's an all-encompassing, completely engrossing thing.  

Unfortunately life doesn't often lend itself to "And for the next four weeks, I am going to watch FarScape! I'm going to dive down the wormhole.  I'm going to remember how I felt like someone had kicked me in the chops when Aeryn went striding past Moya John, even though I also really thought of Moya John as the "original recipe" ...I was a shipper, but it wasn't my sole reason for watching and then....ow, the story just clocked me right in the stomach. 

I think the stories I loved on that really "Yes, I have allowed this show emotional access to me that isn't entirely about me giving permission for it to have that access" are the hardest ones for me to rewatch, because I'll never be able to feel quite the same way again.  

Battlestar Galactica....sure it fell off a quality cliff, but I loved that show when it was good.  Loved it.  Bawled my freaking eyes out on occasion.  Can still tear up thinking of the most emotional moments.  I won't even go into them because I'll make myself cry if I start thinking about them too much.  Never completed a full rewatch of BSG since the finale.  

Breaking Bad.  Oh god, that show could be so funny and so incredibly painful.  Just stunningly painful.  But it was so, so good. 

FarScape is in that same league.  When I watched it that first time, my emotional well-being was on the line for these people, these characters.  Whenever I try to get back there, I have my shields up to an extent.  

But FarScape is one of the few shows that ever completely got them down in the first place and so it's precious to me.  

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FarScape is in that same league.  When I watched it that first time, my emotional well-being was on the line for these people, these characters.  Whenever I try to get back there, I have my shields up to an extent.

I hear you on that! I have been rewatching, but it's never the same as it was the first time. I wish I could forget it all and go back and watch it again.

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The closing of TWOP has led to me re-reading the old Farscape recaps there, and also over on Farscape World, during part of my lunch hours. From that, I've come to one conclusion - I miss Aeryn Sun.

 

All these years, and I've still not come across a character like her on TV/movies. Just a triumphal melding of character design, writing, and performance for the ages.  So how much of it was the writing and how much of it was the actress?  I tend to the performance being a larger part of it, but you have to have the character and the writing to give the performance.

 

My favorite Aeryn episodes?  From the drama side, DNA Mad Scientist and The Way We Weren't. Those blow me away every time. For Scientist, it's the horror of trying to deal with what's happening to her, while TWWW is the soldier's dilemma - I did bad things when I was following orders, how do I make it right, now? Can I make it right, now?  From the lighter side, I love Out of Their Minds - "You were in my shoes, I was in your pants!"

Edited by Rhondinella
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Not so much Aeryn, but more just Claudia Black having the time of her life, but Won't Get Fooled Again and John Quixote were wonderful episodes for her. 

 

Apart from those, I have to say that I think Aeryn Sun has one of the most complete and satisfying character arcs that I can ever remember on television (alongside John himself, of course). She goes from an emotionally stunted warrior who "hates" compassion to the most human of aliens, finding a new family that she never wanted, and just becoming an entirely new person. It was wonderful to watch, even if I did get tired of the John/Aeryn roller-coaster.

 

I think my favourite moments would be those early exhibitions of vulnerability, because they were so surprising. The scenes in the motel room in A Human Reaction, her weakness in Nerve. And when I think of her moments of vulnerability, I tend to go right to that moment at the end of Look at the Princess, Part 3, where John turns around and she's holding the vial of... stuff, determined to see if they're compatible, but still unable to actual voice her feelings. Great non-verbal acting from Claudia, in that scene. And then the kicker when we see them both react to the result of the test.

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Some of my favorite Aeryn stuff comes from some of the episodes that I like the least (relative to Farscape, anyway) early on in season one (basically the episodes that are before you realize the show is about to go super serialized on you).  DNA Mad Scientist is a great episode in a lot of ways; it showcases the general Scape Weird, and though you don't know it yet, it's a little bitty drop in a big old continuity bucket.  But Aeryn in that episode... god she just breaks my heart.  And on my last rewatch I had this weird idea that her encounter with the crazy labrat gone amok might have been a teeny contributing factor in her resisting her feelings for John for so long.  After all, both John and the critter essentially told her the same thing (while meaning wildly different things by it); you can be more. 

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Of course I would never turn my back on anything  new from the world of Farscape but I'm not sure how I feel about this. Happy but it's been how many years since we've seen these characters, 10? What would bring these characters back together, what characters would we get? Will BB be able to lose some weight before the start? I know that's shallow but he doesn't seem to have aged well from what I've seen.

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SO far the script work that's been discussed has focused on D'argo (their son).  SO the fact that they've aged is probably fine, if they'd even be able to appear at all. 

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That makes sense. But I have to admit I'm not sure I'd be that invested in a Farscape movie that didn't have any of the original Gang.

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Yeah I'd expect at least some token appearances.  It would be easy to still have the puppets (someone has to be able to mimic Rygel's voice since the voice actor died) and that would be a welcome reason to have Lani Tupu back since Crais is dead (Talyn, Starburst, sniff).  But I'd hope to see Chiana, Chricton, and Aeryn at least briefly to help establish stuff. 

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I'm excited if a little wary, but there's no way I'll miss it. It's Farscape & it's still me favorite show ever.

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I'd like to take full credit for this, since I posted that I think it could be a movie franchise in the other thread just prior to the announcement.

 

From what I learned, this takes place after the comic series (not comic ha ha, comic book). The story line from what I read seemed pretty interesting and shook up the UT landscape (so to speak). 

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After watching the PKW, I'm done with Aeyrn and John. Enough has been said about them, it's time for Farscape to move on. It needs to establish itself as a world in its own right, that can continue to create and sustain new characters, like Star Trek. This is an opportunity. Maybe if the film does well, a tv series will be commissioned.

 

I can see Scorpius continuing to appear, because Wayne can wear the make-up and not look too different. He'd also easily fit into a new story with new characters. Chiana also, but to a lesser degree. Regardless, the film should expand the Farscape story, not rehash John and Aeyrn's tired relationship. I'd also prefer it to concentrate on non-Sebaceans creatures.

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A place to discuss particular episodes, arcs and moments from the show's run. Please remember this isn't a complete catch-all topic -- check out the forum for character topics and other places for show-related talk.

Edited by stacey · Reason: Updating Topic Info

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I always thought it could, sustain itself beyond John and Aeryn, like Star Trek. I've been saying it for years. They've done a good job with world-building to be sure. And, really, looking at Star Trek, TOS still got in several movies before Next Generation.

 

I mean, everything is a megafranchise in movies nowadays, but they're the same thing. How many Spiderman movies are there? Oh, look there's a Batman *and* Superman movie. Farscape is still pretty original and fresh imo and there's all sorts stories to tell. 

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I hope the movie goes ahead, just so I can watch more Scorpius.

 

I was watching an interview with Wayne, and I agreed with his dislike of the hero-fication of Scorpius towards the end. And that having him aboard Moya deflated the character somewhat.

 

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Hated this character when he first appeared (good job by WP) and I hated it when he was bought onboard Moya. But I never thought he was a good guy. He was the perfect villain when you realized Crais wasn't enough of a threat, Scorpius bought real menace. How he ended up in the PKW just didn't seem to make sense.

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He was the perfect villain when you realized Crais wasn't enough of a threat,

 

Am I the only one who thought Crais never seemed intimidating at all?

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 I have to say, this character must have had one of the most extreme, convoluted and yet satisfying character arcs in all of science fiction television (and probably most other types of television too).

 

Agreed in every way. So many writers could learn from Farscape's fearless character growth.

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It was a mistake to make Scorpius a regular. Because in between his appearances on the show, you can buy that he's off scheming somewhere. Having him be a regular meant having to "give him something to do." I do hope he's in the movie though.

 

Crais wasn't intimidating, but he wasn't going away until he got over himself. He was way cooler once he went rogue. 

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I agree on the both counts. Crais became much more interesting when he went rouge, and there was too much of Scorpius at one point. It's like writers knew they had something good, but then overcooked it. I thought Wayne did so well with what they threw at him, the character could have lost all stature by the end. I wish they had cut down on the scenes of Scorpius in John's head.

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Not sure where to put this but it looks like the PIVOT channel is airing the PK Wars tonight at 8/7 c. It's also airing the series finale an hour before. They've even got a countdown clock on screen for the movie like it's a huge deal. I love that network, I really do.

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Oh cool. A new Farscape board, well relatively that is. I've been obsessed with this show since I discovered it back in 1999. Eleven years of cancellation have not diluted my passion for it. What I find great about this show is that it's only now starting to catch on among the general public, with the much easier access to the episodes than existed 15 years ago. Fantastic.

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Farscape is all on Netflix, yeah. Well, it's definitely on British Netflix, so I assume it's on the US and Canadian sites too.

 

I'm not sure if the Peacekeeper Wars is on there, though. Like I've said before, I've seen most of the episodes so many times over the years that I have no urge to rewatch it at all, right now.

 

I remember watching the pilot episode and being... unimpressed. The puppets felt a bit too whimsical and there was a very rough-around-the-edges feel. I watched a few more episodes, here and there, but never really got into the show. Then I happened to catch Nerve, and everything clicked. Seeing Chiana for the first time (so damned sexy and borderline inappropriate), seeing Aeryn so vulnerable and the connection between her and John having grown so much, seeing Scorpius for the first time, after finding Crais a rather anaemic bad guy. Yes. The show worked, and I was hooked from that episode onwards.

 

All that's really a long-winded way of saying, 'if it doesn't grab you right away, stick it out until the back third of season 1, and I'm sure you'll be in for the long-haul'.

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