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S03.E02: Zombie Knows Best


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When Liv, Clive and Ravi arrive at the scene to investigate a fatal car accident, they begin to suspect foul play was involved. Both starving, Liv and Major consume the brains of the accident victims, a well-meaning father and his angsty teenage daughter. Meanwhile, when Clive is brought in for questioning about a family that was murdered, he’s forced to reveal his past history with them. Lastly, Peyton extends an olive branch to Ravi, and Major hits a road block in his search for Natalie.

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Glad to have the humor back, though the brain personalities seemed too forced at first. I appreciated the locker room scene, though that may have been the humor and the beefcake as the humor. Speaking of which, I need Major's underwear selfies for research purposes. Asking for a friend.

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I love that this show actually lets its characters have storylines and consistent personalities (well, except the zombies) and everyone contributes to the story. I was waiting for Clive to comment on having shared food with Liv before; really got a kick out of how he seems even more exasperated with her quirks now that he knows the reasons for it.

The deaths of Wally and his family got me to thinking, though; what happens if a zombie eats another zombie's brain? Will they get visions, or does it just not work?

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36 minutes ago, Cthulhudrew said:

The deaths of Wally and his family got me to thinking, though; what happens if a zombie eats another zombie's brain? Will they get visions, or does it just not work?

Thought that they explained in season one but it wouldn't work because they near live brains and zombies are dad.

Is it weird that after watching this episode we decided to defrost some chili and have chili cheese dogs for dinner tomorrow night?

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If the brains in the tube are all mashed together, how did the next door neighbor guy know they were brains? I'd think that the mashing-together would just make it look something like hamburger meat, no? 

I guess I was wrong about Vivian suspecting Clive. I'm starting to believe what people were saying last week, that she/FG engineered their deaths in order to get Clive on their side; Vivian just seemed too smug when she said that her people would cooperate with Clive better than the other police because they know he's on their side. 

If she did engineer their deaths, I wonder if she just did it by posting Wally's family's location on that message board and a zombie-hating human took the bait, or if she had her own people kill them and she posted the location on the message board in order to cover her tracks?

Still relevant question in either scenario: why did whoever killed them take the fingernails? If they were taken post-mortem, it strongly suggests that whoever who actually physically killed them* are human (ie, can't turn people into Zombies themselves), but want the option of being able to turn other people into zombies? I don't know why zombie haters would want to be able to turn people into zombies, but I'm not sure why else they'd take the fingernails-- research on the bacteria, maybe, but then it seems like they'd take other things than just fingernails. 

The only person I can think of who would want those fingernails, come to think of it, is Blaine. 

If I run with the Blaine hypothesis for a moment, then there are a two main options I see:

1. It could have been Blaine behind the whole thing, who covered his tracks by posting their location on that board, working alone or with random zombie-haters who aren't significant characters (comes down to the same thing really). Viv's smugness in that case would just be me reading too much into an acting choice, or a red herring.

2. Or, Blaine and Viv could be working together-- in which case I would expect Viv's explanation about what happened to her husband to have been a lie to make sure that nobody thinks she might be working with Blaine. (It could also double as a bit of a loyalty test-- when will Liv & co tell her that they know who "killed" her husband?) 

Or, of course, it could be something completely different.


*as opposed to a situation where Vivian indirectly killed them by pointing others in their direction

Edited by Anisky
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4 hours ago, GaT said:

I like Major on teenage girl brains, & I think it's going to take Clive a while to get used to zombies.

Seems you're not alone in liking Major on teenage girl brain:

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Major on teenage-girl brains was a little bit silly but dammit if I didn't giggle like a loon every time he was on screen - and even harder whenever he interacted with Liv on Teenage-girl's-dad brains. And then the stepfather thing was just squicky - they did a good job balancing the humour of the brains with the ickiness of the plotline. 

One thing I love about this show is how all the characters are just great. I remember at the beginning everyone thought Major was the boring beefcake and then he just took a turn, and now Clive is getting his chance to shine. 

Kohli and Buckley are my OTP though. I adore their every interaction. 

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(edited)

The name of the nursery was Tori Pines (named after the wife, Tori Sutcliffe), which I took as a Veronica Mars shout out because one of the places they used to shoot on location for VM was Torrey Pines.

Loved that Wally tricked Clive into letting him watch Game of Thrones (and that Clive's defense was he covered Wally's eyes during nudity or beheadings).

Major on teen girl brain was hilarious. His conversation with Ravi was the best! "Are we best friends?"

When Liv presented the two different victims' brains to Major, I already wondered what would happen if a zombie ate two different brains at the same time. Would they get visions from both people? And would they get personality traits from both people? The tube mash is at the opposite end of the spectrum, but how many brains do you have to mix together in order to get rid of the mood swings and visions?

I remember during S1, they said that Liv's food preparation usually reflected the victims so how did chili dogs reflect a teenage ice skater and a bank manager?

Do 15 year old girls still think Katy Perry is cool? I'd buy 15 year old girls thinking she was cool in, say, 2010 but now?

I'm still undecided about the whole Fillmore Graves storyline, but one thing I like about it is that it has opened up the zombie world beyond Liv, Blaine, Major, etc. It must have been such a relief for Major to be able to honestly tell the other mercenary guys that he was just freaking out about their abs because he was on teenage girl brains.

Poor Clive. Now he knows that the real reason Wally's mom disappeared was because she didn't want him to know that she got turned into a zombie.

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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3 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I remember during S1, they said that Liv's food preparation usually reflected the victims so how did chili dogs reflect a teenage ice skater and a bank manager?

Ice (and thus ice skating rinks) are chilly? That's all I've got so far...

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So glad this show is really back--not just first episode "setting things up" back. I absolutely loved the combination of humor (especially Major on teen brain), emotion, and mystery and can't wait to rewatch to catch all the little things that fly by. My only small complaint is that it wasn't clear how Liv reflected the bank manager brain, aside from the dad-like admonitions to Major; for example, where did Liv's sudden mechanical aptitude come from? Maybe something was said about the dad having that skill in an earlier scene, but I don't remember. 

3 hours ago, Anisky said:

elevant question in either scenario: why did whoever killed them take the fingernails? If they were taken post-mortem, it strongly suggests that whoever who actually physically killed them* are human (ie, can't turn people into Zombies themselves), but want the option of being able to turn other people into zombies? I don't know why zombie haters would want to be able to turn people into zombies, but I'm not sure why else they'd take the fingernails-- research on the bacteria, maybe, but then it seems like they'd take other things than just fingernails. 

The only person I can think of who would want those fingernails, come to think of it, is Blaine. 

Never thought of Blaine, but it makes sense that he would want the ability to turn people into zombies.

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Do 15 year old girls still think Katy Perry is cool? I'd buy 15 year old girls thinking she was cool in, say, 2010 but now?

If you are referring to the song Major was singing, wasn't that Taylor Swift? But don't trust my musical knowledge--I am in my 60s, though I do still like a lot of today's music.

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how did chili dogs reflect a teenage ice skater and a bank manager?

 

 

I assumed it was related to 'hot dogging' in terms of skating and showing off tricks... but idk.

I also loved the little throw away line that Major wanted the bank manager brain because he was hoping to get his finances in order. 

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33 minutes ago, Paloma said:
2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Do 15 year old girls still think Katy Perry is cool? I'd buy 15 year old girls thinking she was cool in, say, 2010 but now?

If you are referring to the song Major was singing, wasn't that Taylor Swift? But don't trust my musical knowledge--I am in my 60s, though I do still like a lot of today's music.

It was definitely Katy Perry:

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Major on teenage-girl brain was very funny, and Robert Buckley did an excellent job with it. Liv on dad-brain was good, too.

If Vivian did set up Wally and his family to be killed, wouldn't she be concerned the zombie stuff would come out? I know she said they thought they had three years, but this is America: Land of Conspiracy Theories. There's no way to know when stuff like this is going to pop. And killing Wally and his family seems an extreme way to get Clive on their side. He already knows and trusts Liv. The personal connection has already been established. I don't doubt Vivian will do what she needs to do, but it seems like an overly complicated, somewhat dangerous way to get one cop on their side.

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Man, Major has come a long way since the early days of season 1. It's impressive when they can take a show's main male lead who may not be likable by the audience, and turn it completely around in a short amount of time. Though I've actually liked Major since late season 1, when he became a Zombie Hunter, he's gotten a lot more interesting and a lot funnier since then. 

I think it was interesting that we got to see the whole process of being on brains from Major. With Liv, we kind of skipped some steps because the show needed to get to the main plot. But with Major, we actually got to see the switch from not being on the brains to them kicking in. This episode really highlighted Major on teenage girl brains, which I found fascinating. It's going to be fun watching Liv and Major on brains together for a while, that's for sure. Major on teenage girl brains might be the funniest brain personality a zombie has had on this show. I barely even questioned Major in the interrogation room because I was laughing really hard at him in the background. Usually, I find some of those interrogation scenes awkward and a bit cringey, just because of my second hand embarrassment. But it's why I excused very little of Liv on Dad-brains (there was still a good amount, but it wasn't as highlighted) because this was meant to be Major's Big Zombie Brain Episode. 

I also loved that this was Clive's episode. We don't get a whole lot on Clive, so I love that he's getting his own storyline this season. It is well deserved, and I enjoyed the flashbacks, and the flashbacks within the flashbacks. Those transitions were also neat. I love that Wally tricked Clive into letting him watch Game of Thrones, and Clive's stuttering as he was trying to explain it to Anna (I think that's her name?)

Good, Ravi's finally going to talk to Peyton. Hopefully he doesn't continue to be mopey and hopefully he doesn't turn into a raging jerk when Peyton most likely chooses Blaine. Which shouldn't happen over Blaine being nice to Peyton once or twice, mind you, but she'll conveniently put aside all the bad he's done.

I'd love if Blaine was the one behind the zombie killings. Part of me still doesn't think that Vivian is behind it and it's just someone in her company, but it's not unlikely that it's her. However, I'm still on it being someone else because Vivian seems intent on keeping zombies a secret for a while longer, since they're still building Zombie Isle. Killing Wally and his family does not ensure the safety of their kind. If anything, it speeds up the revelation. 

Also, next door neighbour of Wally has a camera. Couldn't they ask him to see the camera footage of the day Wally was killed, to see if they can spot any unusual activity? Maybe it won't capture much, but I do think it catches the street a little bit. 

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42 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I love that Wally tricked Clive into letting him watch Game of Thrones, and Clive's stuttering as he was trying to explain it to Anna (I think that's her name?)

I know she wasn't really that upset, but the whole premise bugged. Lady, you dumped your kid on your neighbor at the last minute to baby-sit, and now you have the nerve to disapprove of how he did? Sit the fuck down.

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55 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:
1 hour ago, Paloma said:

If you are referring to the song Major was singing, wasn't that Taylor Swift? But don't trust my musical knowledge--I am in my 60s, though I do still like a lot of today's music.

It was definitely Katy Perry:

Thanks for the link! But to my old ears it does sound a lot like Taylor Swift's style, especially the beginning.

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Especially since Clive is not familiar with this kid or what his mom lets him watch AND he hasn't been shown around kids in the past either, so he has no way to judge what this kid should or shouldn't be watching. There are some parents who let their kids watch R-rated stuff (my parents let me watch all kinds of movies with nudity and violence when I was even younger than Wally) and on the other end of the spectrum, I remember this Mormon girl I knew in high school who wasn't allowed to watch rated R movies. You never know what parents allow and you can't expect a last minute babysitter who doesn't really know you or your kid to automatically know what the rules are. 

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Fun and heartbreaking episode!

Poor Clive. He's lost a lot, sacrificing for his work. Did the timeline mentioned at the end mean that Wally, Anna, and her brother (brother right) were infected at the beginning of the outbreak? Were they somehow part of ground zero at the lake party? Or was there some other chain of transmission?

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Vivian explained last week that everyone at the party was infected which is why Wally was at FG Elementary School. The timing of the party (21 months and 21 days) was mentioned because it meant the real reason Anna sent Clive that letter breaking things off was because she had just been turned into a zombie (not because she lost interest in him, met someone else, etc).

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7 hours ago, Anisky said:

Still relevant question in either scenario: why did whoever killed them take the fingernails?

Three nails = three victims. Whether that's how a zombie hunter is tallying his kills, or an old-fashioned way for guns-for-hire to send their boss an "it's done" message remains to be seen.

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4 hours ago, Paloma said:

Never thought of Blaine, but it makes sense that he would want the ability to turn people into zombies.

Is Blaine not a zombie again? I distinctly recall him getting apparently killed and buried last season, then freaking people out on public transportation after he dug himself out of the grave.

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1 hour ago, Bruinsfan said:

Is Blaine not a zombie again? I distinctly recall him getting apparently killed and buried last season, then freaking people out on public transportation after he dug himself out of the grave.

He reverted, BUT the reversion came with a potentially deadly side effect, so he tried Ravi's experimental cure and is supposedly cured but has amnesia. 

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10 hours ago, MissEwa said:

remember at the beginning everyone thought Major was the boring beefcake and then he just took a turn

Still not one of Major's biggest fans, but the writers (seemingly) dropping the epic/twu wuv relationship of Liv/Major and giving him a chance to do funny stuff, like in this ep, has made me like him more. 

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So, Wally is who introduced Clive to Game of Thrones!  That was a fun callback, because I remember an episode where Clive said he liked that show, much to Ravi's delight.  The stuff about the family and Clive was nice, if tragic at the end.  Malcolm Goodwin did a great job throughout it all.

Nice to go back to a "brain(s) of the week" episode, and I'm glad to see that Clive being on the know is not going to change the dynamics or stop Goodwin's awesome facial expressions.  Because even thought he knows they are zombies, his WTF? reactions to both Major and Liv were still priceless as always.  Fun seeing Liv as a goofy dad, but Major was MVP with the teenage girl brains.  Robert Buckley was clearly having a blast.  I could watch an entire episode of Teenage Girl Major being BFFs with Ravi.  The case itself was creepy, although I suspected the mother once she showed up.

Still wondering what is the deal with Vivian and Fillmore Graves.  And I think the whole "brains in a packet" thing they give their soldiers will end up being too good to be true.

Glad Ravi is finally going to suck it up and actually talk to Peyton, even if I suspect it will end with her deciding to try something with Blaine. Which would be a bad idea on so many levels....

If these zombie hunters really exist, I wonder how long it will take someone to be suspicious of Liv, since she still isn't trying to change her look.

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12 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

The name of the nursery was Tori Pines (named after the wife, Tori Sutcliffe), which I took as a Veronica Mars shout out because one of the places they used to shoot on location for VM was Torrey Pines.

 

The way the camera rested on the name of the nursery, I knew that had to be a reference to something but I could NOT figure out what! I was driving myself crazy trying to make it into some sort of pun. Thank you so much for the explanation.

I also still don't fully trust Filmore Graves lady. I'm maybe less certain this week that she was behind Wally's killing than I was last week, but I do think she's up to something. I mean, if she had the means to set up this entire zombie headquarters, complete with schools and fitness centers and apparently some kind of food production, what is the hold up on relocating to that island? And did they clarify where the brain melange for their tubes come from?

I was very glad that Clive got an episode - he's been my favorite for a while. Well, it's usually tied between him and Ravi, but Ravi's pratty broken-heartedness is wearying. For me, it was especially nice to see Clive cooking with Wally - I think there was a reveal last season that the food he brought to Liv he cooked himself, since he knew she liked it spicy? That was a good character beat, and I'm glad they remembered it.

I also liked how the transitions into Clive's flashbacks were almost like the graphic novel pages, but not quite. That, too, was a nice touch.

Overall, though, I don't know. This show has a great ensemble, and I do like seeing more of them, but I also miss Liv being front and center.

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1 hour ago, swimmyfish said:

Overall, though, I don't know. This show has a great ensemble, and I do like seeing more of them, but I also miss Liv being front and center.

I totally get this. I wouldn't say that Liv is not front and center in the sense that other characters are taking her lead spot. I mean, the show has done a good job balancing each story but having Liv more central and that's been true until last season, at least for me. I'll totally be on your side if suddenly, Major keeps getting the focus on the zombie side of things, or if Ravi's romantic drama takes over screen time, or if Blaine starts saving the day every episode. But right now, I haven't quite seen that they're going that route. This episode had Liv take a backseat to Major and Clive, for sure. I'm still going to wait and see what happens. I think it's definitely a bit jarring, especially this episode, because Liv's never been put more as a supporting character before. She's always been the Only Zombie to solve the case of the week and now Major's part of it, so it might take some adjusting. 

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This whole episode made me cry for Clive! The poor guy sacrifices everything for his job. And now he knows he missed the boat by days! 

And how adorable was Wally?! I don't even like kids, let alone TV kids. But this little guy was awesome! It just slapped an extra layer of tragic on top of the sadness sundae. 

As many have said, Major on Teenage brains was epic. ? 

But Clive still wins the show with his many Clive faces especially the "I just discovered Game of Thrones" expression! I'm really thrilled that they finally did a really Clive-centric episode and let him shine. He has been one of my absolute favorites since day one. 

I was happy to lack a Peyton appearance in this episode since she is one of my least favourites. Now that she knows that Blaine is a multiple murderer of homeless teenagers. And that he did it for profit, there is no excuse except profound stupidity for her to be calling him. Sadly, I expect that storyline will rear it's ugly head soon. ?

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Man, the Clive flashback scenes were handled beautifully. They really told a full story in just one episode just using flashbacks. Impressive writing and impressive acting from all the actors involved (Clive, Wally and Wally's mom). 

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21 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Robert Buckley talks about playing a teenage girl:

Awwww, Rob and Rahul's real life bromance is ever bit as adorable and charming as Major's and Ravi's!  I love that.

17 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

 

Poor Clive. Now he knows that the real reason Wally's mom disappeared was because she didn't want him to know that she got turned into a zombie.

Even worse: the show seemed to insinuate that she might not have turned into a zombie at all if Clive had still been around when her ex got out of prison.  Or at least that's how I interpreted his boss's question of if Clive ever thought about how things might have turned out differently had Clive still been around when Anna's ex had gotten out of prison.  If I'm not mistaken, it was Anna's brother who was the Fillmore Graves employee.  Had she not gone to live with him, she and Wally might not have ever been exposed to zombies.

 

14 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Major on teenage-girl brain was very funny, and Robert Buckley did an excellent job with it. Liv on dad-brain was good, too.

If Vivian did set up Wally and his family to be killed, wouldn't she be concerned the zombie stuff would come out? I know she said they thought they had three years, but this is America: Land of Conspiracy Theories. There's no way to know when stuff like this is going to pop. And killing Wally and his family seems an extreme way to get Clive on their side. He already knows and trusts Liv. The personal connection has already been established. I don't doubt Vivian will do what she needs to do, but it seems like an overly complicated, somewhat dangerous way to get one cop on their side.

 

I can't explain it or justify it, but I just get the vibe that Vivian wants the secret to come out.   She just doesn't seem freaked out enough about being on the verge of exposure.  I know she's been preparing for this day for 22 months, but as I already expressed in the thread for last week's episode, I'm not at all impressed with her separatist colony-in-the-puget-sound plan.  Something ain't right here.  

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8 hours ago, Brian Cronin said:

Man, the Clive flashback scenes were handled beautifully. They really told a full story in just one episode just using flashbacks. Impressive writing and impressive acting from all the actors involved (Clive, Wally and Wally's mom). 

The writers of Arrow should take notes and see how it's done. (Although I guess we are going to be done with flashbacks after this season.)

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10 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

How were they watching "Game of Thrones?" Did he illegally pirate it just for Wally? Or had he been paying for HBO for, however long, without ever turning it on? I mean the commercials are kind of hard to miss.

I have HBO but I've never seen an episode of GOT.

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10 hours ago, CletusMusashi said:

How were they watching "Game of Thrones?" Did he illegally pirate it just for Wally? Or had he been paying for HBO for, however long, without ever turning it on? I mean the commercials are kind of hard to miss.

It doesn't seem that improbable that Clive could have HBO for other reasons and not known about/cared to watch Game of Thrones when it first came out.

When GOT premiered, it wasn't the pop culture phenomenon it is now, nor was it as heavily advertised. 

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55 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

The writers of Arrow should take notes and see how it's done. (Although I guess we are going to be done with flashbacks after this season.)

It reminded me of the better Arrow flashback episodes (like the Constantine one), in the sense that it was confined to a single episode and not dragging on all season. :)

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4 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

It doesn't seem that improbable that Clive could have HBO for other reasons and not known about/cared to watch Game of Thrones when it first came out.

"Free HBO" has often been a selling point of package deals; Clive may have had no interest in the channel at all.

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54 minutes ago, questionfear said:

THANK YOU! My wife watched Army Wives, that must be why she looked familiar but not so familiar that I could remember why. 

Yes! She had curly hair on that show. The straight hair threw me for a minute. She's one of those actresses that pops up a lot on various shows.

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On 4/12/2017 at 5:19 AM, Anisky said:

If the brains in the tube are all mashed together, how did the next door neighbor guy know they were brains? I'd think that the mashing-together would just make it look something like hamburger meat, no? 
 

I thought the exact same thing!  But I was thinking it was more of a puree than mash - the brain packets looked like those squeezable yogurt things, so that is how I was picturing the end product.  But either way, how would anyone know that was bits of brains, let alone human brain to get to the zombie conclusion? 

I'm not a fan of the "humans are finding us out" plot line.  I hope it doesn't grow to become the main plot line. 

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I wonder if someone planted that information about the go-brain packets on the message board. If someone on the inside of Filmore Graves (Viv?) wants the zombie secret out of the bag, that wouldn't be a bad way to get folks riled up. 

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On 4/12/2017 at 5:19 AM, Anisky said:

If the brains in the tube are all mashed together, how did the next door neighbor guy know they were brains? I'd think that the mashing-together would just make it look something like hamburger meat, no? 
 

&

16 minutes ago, chaifan said:

I thought the exact same thing!  But I was thinking it was more of a puree than mash - the brain packets looked like those squeezable yogurt things, so that is how I was picturing the end product.  But either way, how would anyone know that was bits of brains, let alone human brain to get to the zombie conclusion? 

 

It's the FG Brainz logo on the side of the packet that gave it away.

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