S03.E12: Strange Bedfellows

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

Angelo makes an unsettling discovery and is concerned that Cookie's past isn't in the past and will hurt his chances of becoming the mayor. Meanwhile, Anika is faced with a life-changing decision after Tariq reveals what he is really after. In other events, Hakeem's 21st birthday party takes an unexpected turn.

[SimoneS]

So hot as f Derek did come out as I hoped. I am soooo glad. Despite what Jamal is telling is Cookie and Phillip, he is still attracted to Derek who is too slick. This romantic tangle is exactly what Jamal needs.  I am never going to give up hoping that those three hot men have a threesome.  

Oh, Angelo, don't ask questions that make Cookie have to lie to you. I didn't like most of Cookie's outfits, but damn she looked lovely tonight.

I thought Lucious already knew about Vegas when he was asking Andre if he knew anything about it. I don't see how Tarek will resist Anika. She is gorgeous. It won't be that hard to seduce him.Leah is so crazy horrible. She cracked me up tonight. 

Hakeem is so spoilt. You would think that he would be more careful with his security since he was kidnapped. At least, he went to go spend some time with his daughter. What on earth did Tiana have on when she was performing? That costume was not on point. Thirsty cracked me up offering to sell Hakeem his Oldsmobile.

[wanderingstar]

I really LOVED this episode. It had all the good stuff I love on this show: family scenes, a big party, skulking by Mama Walker.

Until it went left, Hakeem's birthday performance with Jamal and Tiana was fun.

Good continuity on referring back to that awful "Can't Truss 'Em" song by Hakeem - and linking it to the violence done to Tiana's friend.

Andre's a sneaky snake, but he's right: Hakeem needs to stop acting like a child.

And speaking of Andre, he was not lying when he told Juliana that this is how he does business.

D-Major is so dramatic. I hope he lets Jamal be happy with Philip, but I doubt that will happen.

Loved the scene of Lucious recounting Hakeem's brith story.

Mama Walker's Anika hate is just a joy to behold.

I don't know if Anika's play to entrap Tariq is gonna work.

I'm really enjoying Nia Long in this so far.

[SimoneS]

On 4/5/2017 at 10:13 PM, Gillian Rosh said:

D-Major is so dramatic. I hope he lets Jamal be happy with Philip, but I doubt that will happen.

Come on, where is the fun if Derek is a good boy? His dramatic coming out, followed by stopping in his tracks when he saw Jamal with Phillip was classic soap. Having Derek make trouble for Jamal and Phillip is totally the way to go. Derek should be Jamal's Lucious. 

Edited April 8, 2017 by SimoneS

[wanderingstar]

Quote

Come on, where is the fun if Derek is a good boy? His dramatic coming out, followed by stopping his tracks when he saw Jamal with Phillip was classic soap. Having Derek make trouble for Jamal and Phillip is totally the way to go. Derek should be Jamal's Lucious. 

I cannot argue with any of this-lol. I loved the hell out of that moment when Derek walked in on Jamal and Phillip. And I'm pretty sure Jamal and D-Major aren't done. It would just be nice to see Jamal happy for 5 minutes.

[Margohill]

6 minutes ago, Gillian Rosh said:

I cannot argue with any of this-lol. I loved the hell out of that moment when Derek walked in on Jamal and Phillip. And I'm pretty sure Jamal and D-Major aren't done.

I'm pretty sure of that as well. To me it's so obvious how confused Jamal is right now. BTW how many ex-boyfriends does Jamal have right now? I just thought it would have been nice if Jamal had told Derek upfront that he was done with him before jumping into bed with Phillip. I remember the episode when Jamal passed out from drug overdose while in bed with Derek. Derek had to call Phillip for help and it just surprises me how he could just flip from sleeping with Derek to Philip just like that. I'm not liking how the writers are writing Jamal's love life. He looks like a ho@e IMO.

Anyway another great episode and I thoroughly enjoyed the pacing and the continuity with slow build-up.

It seems Angelo is really into Cookie and wants to make a life with her. This was the first episode I really felt a little chemistry between them. He may be trying too hard though to try to clean Cookie up but I doubt Cookie is over Lucious quite yet. Lucious hooked up with Cookie right away when he found about Anika and they are both confronting that issue together. My guess is that this Anika debacle may be what might end up bringing Cookie back into Lucious's arms.

Anika is sly as a fox and I don't trust her at all. I think she is playing everyone including Cookie, Lucious and Tariq. Mama Lyon may be the only one who truly understands her. I am still miffed that Anika has not been punished for what she did to Rhonda and her baby. I hope her comeuppance is on the way. That was evil.

Andre may be way in over his head with this Juliana woman from Vegas. I think she has her eyes on Lucious. I don't know if Andre truly has feelings for Nessa. I am starting to have my doubts about their relationship. Andre stepped up bigtime when he handled Hakeem the right way. I applauded.

Hakeem has been spoiled since birth and I was touched when Lucious recounted his birth story. I hope he really becomes more responsible because I am getting really tired of his childish antics.

Overall a great episode and the tension is slowly starting to build-up.

[SimoneS]

54 minutes ago, Margohill said:

I'm pretty sure of that as well. To me it's so obvious how confused Jamal is right now. BTW how many ex-boyfriends does Jamal have right now? I just thought it would have been nice if Jamal had told Derek upfront that he was done with him before jumping into bed with Phillip. I remember the episode when Jamal passed out from drug overdose while in bed with Derek. Derek had to call Phillip for help and it just surprises me how he could just flip from sleeping with Derek to Philip just like that. I'm not liking how the writers are writing Jamal's love life. He looks like a ho@e IMO.

Jamal did end things with Derek before he hooked up with Phillip last week. He told Derek that they had hooked up several times, some of which he was high, and that he wanted truth in his life and Derek was in the closet. Derek is the one who decided to come out in hopes that he would win Jamal back. Jamal is obviously conflicted because he did have feelings for Derek when they first started seeing each other. He just couldn't stand Derek being in the closet and that they couldn't be together in front of other people.

I don't know how you can use that term to refer to Jamal. If anything Jamal's love life has been tame and underwritten, especially compared to Lucious and Hakeem who have tons more casual sex that he does. Even Andre was having more sex with women when he was in his open marriage with Rhonda.

Edited April 6, 2017 by SimoneS

[Athena5217]

The best part of this episode was that it finally settled the question of how old Hakeem is.  Chronologically he is 21, but emotionally he is 7. 

Isn't it a parole violation for Cookie to have a handgun in the house? I'm surprised Angelo didn't mention that as another reason she shouldn't have it. I was disappointed when Cookie lied to Angelo about never shooting anyone. It seems this is another relationship destined to fail for Cookie. I'd kind of like to see Cookie hook up with Angelo's mom because that would be a real power couple and it would kill Lucious. I know it won't  happen, but it's good fan fiction.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Athena5217

[thuganomics85]

I surprisingly thought Hakeem's 21st Birthday Bash was tame by comparison at first (granted, a lot of that is he probably is still trying to be better for Tiana in his own twisted way), but that quickly turned into a disaster.  He really should have known those guys would be up to no good, and he certainly should have shown more concern for Tiana's friend, then bitch about how his birthday got ruined.  He really is an immature punk.  And, yet, I still root for him to finally wise up.  At least that scene with his daughter was nice.  And even Lucious' speech to him was.... gulp, touching.  I rarely say that about Lucious!

Oh, Jamal.  It's the classic tale as old as times.  On one said, you've got Phillip, who probably is the better person for you and seems like a legit guy.  But you are so not over Derek and he clearly isn't over you, so you've gotten yourself into a good old fashion love triangle!  And like with most things on this show, I'm sure Jamal will end up creating even more drama!

Angelo and Cookie have a bit of a snag at first, but seem to be on better terms later on.  But her giving him Lucious' gun to "dispose" of it, will so come back into play, right?

Anika continues to keep her head above water.  She has bought herself a week from Lucious by saying she will attempt to seduce Tariq, and make it look like his vendetta is even more personal.  Not sure if it will work or not.  And more importantly, I'm not sure if anything will stop Grandma Leah from wanting to shoot her!

Andre sure is putting the moves on Julianna/Nia Long.  Despite what he said, I don't think Nessa like this at all.  And Julianna had that little run-in with Cookie at the salon.  This will be good!

[Margohill]

9 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I don't know how you can use that term to refer to Jamal. If anything Jamal's love life has been tame and underwritten, especially compared to Lucious and Hakeem who have tons more casual sex that he does. Even Andre was having more sex with women when he was in his open marriage with Rhonda.

I guess Jamal wasn't very clear about the breakup to Derek otherwise he wouldn't have gone through the trouble of outing himself. I really felt sorry for him when he expressed his problems about 'coming out' to Jamal. Even though he doesn't seem to be good for Jamal as he is an enabler, he connected well with him.The way Jamal locked him out of Empire was cold. Philip punching him in the face wasn't nice either. I will not be surprised if Jamal runs back to Derek. It will be back and forth the way I see it. SMH

Edited April 6, 2017 by Margohill
typo

[Primetimer]

Finally, the youngest Lyon can get a drink!

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[HansMoleman742]

Again - a new series low in the ratings.  This show is just shedding viewers.  It has gotten too dark and deadly.   This may have been my last episode.

A year ago this week - 4.3/14  11.34 million viewers

This week - 2.2/8  6.31 million viewers

Where did everybody go?

Edited April 6, 2017 by HansMoleman742

[Margohill]

36 minutes ago, HansMoleman742 said:

Again - a new series low in the ratings.  This show is just shedding viewers.  It has gotten too dark and deadly.   This may have been my last episode.

A year ago this week - 4.3/14  11.34 million viewers

This week - 2.2/8  6.31 million viewers

Where did everybody go?

Everybody is still around just not that much into the show any more and I've my strong reasons as to why. Everything has to be compared to the storyline in S1 which was a phenomenon.

1. S1 was about family bonding and taking care of family especially on Cookie's part. She was more of a caring mother and only fighting for her own share of the company. Now, Cookie has veered away from that and is more into her man Angelo and far less about her children. I take it, she needs her own life but her character now is no longer the caring mom she was in S1. That has to be hurting the ratings.

2. Cookie's relationship with Angelo is as boring as heck. It brings nothing to the show especially as there is not a strong storyline there that people like and there is almost 0 chemistry. I personally want that relationship gone.

3. People are tired of seeing Cookie fighting Lucious and the Lyon family fighting against each other. Cookie spent 17 years in jail to sacrifice for her family and it is way past time that Cookie and Lucious should have been brought back together as a strong couple fighting outside enemies.

4. The music no longer connects with the story. That was the magic of S1. What happened?

5. People really loved Andre and Rhonda and a lot are still miffed that Anika has not been punished for her evil action against Rhonda and her baby. Everytime I see Anika freely strutting her stuff around, I think of Rhonda being pushed down the stairs by Anika. She should be gone by now. Worst off, Lucious knows about it but brushes it off and still sleeps with her. What gives?

6. People would like to see a family oriented nice story centered around the music business not shootings and killings.

7. Jamal had a nice relationship with one guy in S1 whom he had great chemistry with and was very supportive. now it's not the case.

There has to be consequences for some of the terrible actions and the storylines need to connect. I am a die-hard fan that still watches this show live routinely but even I myself have lost a lot of interest. It has become too dark and boring. Empire writers need to go back to S1 and figure out how far off they have veered. It is not working and they are shedding viewers at an alarming rate. It is not sustainable. They need to figure things out and quick.

I realize that the story has to evolve but IMO, the writers have veered the wrong way and the show has lost the magic in S1 when it was so unique. Bring the family back together, get them to work in Empire as a team and believe me there are lots of enemies and problems out there for them to fight against. Cookie stands strong when she is by her family and not with some 'boyfriend'. This last scene in E12 with Lucious talking to Hakeem about his birth was the best scene because it was touching and loving. There is not a single likeable relationship on this show right now. Nothing to draw back the audience, just fighting and back-stabbing among family members. It has just become tiresome.

Please don't hate me. It's just MHO and the ratings are reflecting my views.

Thanks for reading my post.

[Dakisela]

OK, not really getting the Giuliana character.  First she's this dishrag that cowers next to her husband that beats her and now she's acting like some high-powered boss lady?  What was the point of THAT first meeting, then?????   If I were Andre I certainly wouldn't take her any more seriously than an easy lay to get what he wants. He's certainly going to be surprised when he gets a load of Gino!!!!

[Tikichick]

The more they flashback, the less I can reconcile young, schoolgirl Cookie with the Cookie we met in Season One, even the one who just asked last episode if she was losing her street cred.  Schoolgirl Cookie may have been young and somewhat naive, but she had an awful lot of strength, smarts and confidence in herself that I don't see deciding to behave like street Cookie does.  Seems she would have stood up more to Luscious when they were starting out.  

[questionfear]

Agreed, especially with respect to Rhonda/Andre, Jamal/Michael. It feels like everyone is soulless, and it's just gotten bizarre how Empire went from being a scrappy, if vaguely sketchy, music label to...some sort of hip hop mafia family? It's very unclear. 

Look, I made fun of the whole IPO storyline from S1 because it was more than a little ridiculous, but it was certainly interesting and kept the show grounded in reality. For me, it started to go off the rails when everyone was going on and on about how Empire had to be run by a Lyon, and keeping it in the family, etc...then why did you idiots go public???? 

Also, I am still super unclear why the FBI is after Lucious for shooting that guy in the pilot. That's not really something the Feds would be involved with, and IIRC Lucious hasn't directly shot anyone else. Rhonda and Anika both killed people too! They could have done more with the idea of Lucious being implicated for insider trading, stock manipulation, things that would actually pique the interest of the FBI on a much higher level, and give more ammunition to this idea that he's such a high profile target the Feds should be involved over local police. 

And yea, Andre has gone from compelling to eye rolling for me...

[Dee]

The ratings "slide" isn't a huge deal.

A huge caveat has to be made when discussing series "lows" for Empire, because at it's ratings peak, Empire was rivaling EVERYTHING, including the SUPERBOWL. So now, it's essentially "come back to Earth" and is acting like a show on a mainstream network that's in it's mid-to-later seasons, ratings-wise.

And even in it's third season Empire does FANTASTIC Live+3 and Live+7 numbers which have it remaining on par with highly rated network cash cows like Modern Family and The Big Bang Theory; while other "buzzed about" shows that similarly began with huge numbers like How To Get Away With Murder (featuring Oscar Winner Viola Davis), Riverdale, Underground, and even Fox's own 24:Legacy have fallen MUCH worse in the ratings.

It also has to be factored in that Empire is the first and only ALL Black drama on primetime television to EVER be granted subsequent seasons, AND is on Fox, which has never been good at promoting its shows AND is in the midst of essentially rebuilding their entire network. So for Empire to remain Fox's bulwark, an all Black primetime network drama, reaching the mid-point of its run, is an astounding achievement.

Also, I don't think there's anything wrong with the writing for the show.  In fact, I think I'd rank Season 3 as strong as Season 1 in terms of overall quality, writing, acting and character development.

The only difference is that now, in Season 3, the show, and many of the actors, have refused to allow their characters become static. Empire has always known their genre, and, who their audience was, and told its story accordingly. They actually have been taking their time to tell a thorough story with the Lyon family front and center, which was a huge viewer complaint throughout the second season. Other than that, Empire possesses as many logical "plot holes" as any other network primetime drama, prestige or not.

Finally, just because Empire doesn't resolve a plot point as quickly as certain viewers deem it should, doesn't mean it's dropped. A perfect example is Frank Gathers murder. Fans complained endlessly throughout Season 1 that Cookie's hit had been "dropped," and yet, here we are in Season 3, and Frank Gathers murder remains a huge aspect of the show.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Dee

[LaChavalina]

Referring to the ratings comments above, I watch the show online every week. Variety says last night was a series low in live ratings, but I suspect there are a lot of people like me who catch it later in the week.

The biggest problem I have with the show right now is that I think there are too many tangential storylines that are obviously crafted around some high-profile guest star.* I don't care enough about Nia Long to make this weird Vegas plot worthwhile. I also didn't care enough about Rumer Willis to make that a thing. I'd rather that airtime be devoted to the core characters. 

(*I'll confess that I do care about Taye Diggs. A lot. So he can stay for a bit!)

[luckyroll3]

I have to say I definitely missed Rhonda this episode, cause you know she would have been right next to Andrew making plans on how best to seduce Nia Long's character to get their way.  It also made me reminisce about The Bib.

[crowceilidh]

I really thought Rumer Willis and Jamal were an interesting combo.  I wish they hadn't broken it up so quickly.

Last night's show seemed a little choppily edited to me and also seemed short on music.  

[Dee]

I doubt Rumer Willis is gone.

There's still 6 episodes left in the second half of the season, so there's a pretty good chance she'll appear again before the finale.

[wanderingstar]

Quote

Also, I don't think there's anything wrong with the writing for the show.  In fact, I think I'd rank Season 3 as strong as Season 1 in terms of overall quality, writing, acting and character development.

IA on this. I am LOVING the show this season, and it definitely has the soapy awesomeness that I fell in love with in season 1.

[healthnut]

9 hours ago, Dee said:

The ratings "slide" isn't a huge deal.

A huge caveat has to be made when discussing series "lows" for Empire, because at it's ratings peak, Empire was rivaling EVERYTHING, including the SUPERBOWL.

It also has to be factored in that Empire is the first and only ALL Black drama on primetime television to EVER be granted subsequent seasons, AND is on Fox, which has never been good at promoting its shows AND is in the midst of essentially rebuilding their entire network. So for Empire to remain Fox's bulwark, an all Black primetime network drama, reaching the mid-point of its run, is an astounding achievement.

Also, I don't think there's anything wrong with the writing for the show.  In fact, I think I'd rank Season 3 as strong as Season 1 in terms of overall quality, writing, acting and character development.

 

1. Nothing rivals the Super Bowl. Empire at its peak still didn't touch The Walking Dead, which peaked in season 5. 

2. An All Black drama that shows us at our worst. Why make excuses for the show by saying the ratings are still better than most shows and dismiss the fact the show is doing half of what it did just a few months ago in the fall. 

3. The writing is completely disjointed. Even Taraji P plans on bailing as soon as the shows gets to 100 episodes Taraji P won't play Cookie for long

No disrespect, just my opinion, but FOX can't be happy with the slide and if they aren't concerned they're crazy. I want the show to do well because it gives opportunities for future black shows. But I fear they've ruined it and it's reached a point of no return. 

[Dee]

On 4/6/2017 at 5:38 AM, thuganomics85 said:

I surprisingly thought Hakeem's 21st Birthday Bash was tame by comparison at first (granted, a lot of that is he probably is still trying to be better for Tiana in his own twisted way), but that quickly turned into a disaster.  He really should have known those guys would be up to no good, and he certainly should have shown more concern for Tiana's friend, then bitch about how his birthday got ruined.  He really is an immature punk.  And, yet, I still root for him to finally wise up.  At least that scene with his daughter was nice.  And even Lucious' speech to him was.... gulp, touching.  I rarely say that about Lucious!

Oh, Jamal.  It's the classic tale as old as times.  On one said, you've got Phillip, who probably is the better person for you and seems like a legit guy.  But you are so not over Derek and he clearly isn't over you, so you've gotten yourself into a good old fashion love triangle!  And like with most things on this show, I'm sure Jamal will end up creating even more drama!

Angelo and Cookie have a bit of a snag at first, but seem to be on better terms later on.  But her giving him Lucious' gun to "dispose" of it, will so come back into play, right?

Anika continues to keep her head above water.  She has bought herself a week from Lucious by saying she will attempt to seduce Tariq, and make it look like his vendetta is even more personal.  Not sure if it will work or not.  And more importantly, I'm not sure if anything will stop Grandma Leah from wanting to shoot her!

Andre sure is putting the moves on Julianna/Nia Long.  Despite what he said, I don't think Nessa like this at all.  And Julianna had that little run-in with Cookie at the salon.  This will be good!

I love Jamal's love triangle because it's a clear indication of where he is mentally and emotionally right now. He's torn between his worst impulses with good intentions and his idealized self with tempered aggression. No matter how he protests he clearly deeply cares for each guy but because he has yet to reconcile his own dark side he can't make a self actualized decision about anything (let alone his love life). I'm calling it now, that by the end of the season, he pulls a Kelly Taylor "I Choose Me," scenario essentially dumping both guys.

I also love Anika navigating her way back into the mix. She spent the better part of Season 2 (by playing her cards all wrong in Season One) on the outside looking in, now she's back in the inner circle and playing to win. The ironic thing is, for once she's operating with the best of (or at least fairly good) intentions and she's gonna be blindsided by the end of the season. There's only so many balls a juggler can keep in the air before dropping one of them.

That final Lucious and Hakeem scene has been a long time coming. Lucious has been after Hakeem since the pilot to get his act together but he couldn't rightfully expect a kid that he spoiled rotten who doesn't even remember being born in the ghetto to suddenly become mature, especially with Lucious being the worst role model ever. Hakeem is not stupid, reckless and immature yes, but he's quite intelligent. The problem is that just like Jamal has yet to fully reconcile with his darkside, Hakeem has to learn how to think before acting. Wily ideas and spur of the moment stunts can keep opponents off balance, but if you have no long term gameplan you've already lost the war.

Edited April 13, 2017 by Dee

[SimoneS]

4 hours ago, Dee said:

I love Jamal's love triangle because it's a clear indication of where he is mentally and emotionally right now. He's torn between his worst impulses with good intentions and his idealized self with tempered aggression. No matter how he protests he clearly deeply cares for each guy but because he has yet to reconcile his own dark side he can't make a self actualized decision about anything (let alone his love life). I'm calling it now, that by the end of the season, he pulls a Kelly Taylor "I Choose Me," scenario essentially dumping both guys.

I really hope Jamal doesn't pull a boring Kelly Taylor. I want him to have a relationship like his brothers. I like Phillip, but I hope Jamal chooses Derek because having a love interest in the music business would mean that he can be part of the rivalry with his brothers. He feels on the outside at the moment. 

[Margohill]

17 hours ago, Dee said:

Also, I don't think there's anything wrong with the writing for the show.  In fact, I think I'd rank Season 3 as strong as Season 1 in terms of overall quality, writing, acting and character development.

I don't know how else anyone can explain this drastic ratings slide without blaming the writing. The writing itself is what makes a great story which was the case in S1, but there is a stark difference in the plotlines and the story they are trying to tell.

Bottom line, people are not interested in what they are writing now and that's why they have lost interest. The story has now become dark and boring.

-Shootings and killings in run-down buildings, secret meetings in dark abandoned buildings, family members plotting against each other, Cookie and Lucious doing everything they can to hurt each other as much as possible, Jamal confused about his love life and not taking the time after rehab to focus on himself, Andre the well-educated business savvy guy is now venturing into this dark life with gangsters, Hakeem with his wild parties that degenerate into brawls with the police getting involved, crazy Mama Lyon snitching around and trying to shoot people, Tariq trying to get Lucious, Hakeem fighting with Andre, the Las Vegas plot with gangsters and Guiliana coming in to cause more problems between Cookie and Lucious, all the couples are either boring or are just uninteresting, e.t.c.

Where is the bright light in all these? Not a single happy story-arc is going on right now. In S1 we had Cookie bonding with her sons, she had this fantastic relationship with Jamal, family dinners at Lucious's estate, excellent songs tied to the storyline, Jamal was fighting with his Dad to try to prove himself not kill him like Andre wants to do now, the all-white party with that great "You're so beautiful" song, Cookie fighting to get Lucious back, e.t.c. There was a lot of happy and emotionally touching moments in S1. Who can forget those great Cookie one-liners?

S1 was bright and emotionally satisfying. S3 even if well written is dark, the storyline is not flowing well, and it doesn't have any plotline right now to pull the audience in and keep them, that's why they are leaving IMO. At some point some have to agree that the writing IS THE PROBLEM.

JMHO

[Dee]

15 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I really hope Jamal doesn't pull a boring Kelly Taylor. I want him to have a relationship like his brothers. I like Phillip, but I hope Jamal chooses Derek because having a love interest in the music business would mean that he can be part of the rivalry with his brothers. He feels on the outside at the moment. 

I don't think Jamal wants to be involved in any of his brothers romantic rivalries. Plus Jamal views himself as the family peacekeeper (though he's not) so he routinely tries to avoid Lyon family fights when and/or if he can.

In terms of a longterm romantic partner, Jamal has always just wanted someone who genuinely loved him, whether they were in the industry or not, but what he actually needs is what Cookie told him back in Season One, 'somebody that's on his level, who has their own career and ideas and who can bring something tangible to their relationship.'

And as much as I love his pairings with both Derek and Phillip, I don't know if either of them fits the bill.

Edited April 8, 2017 by Dee

[SoCal Mema]

21 hours ago, Dee said:

I doubt Rumer Willis is gone.

There's still 6 episodes left in the second half of the season, so there's a pretty good chance she'll appear again before the finale.

On IMDB, they are showing her only appearing in the 2 episodes.

[HansMoleman742]

Being from NY, two things about this Mayor's race just aren't realistic: (1) Thanks to Mayor Dinkins, the first Black Mayor of NY, there will never be a Second Black Mayor of NY; and (2) certainly not with a felon girlfriend hanging on his arm at public appearances.

[Dee]

35 minutes ago, SoCal Mema said:

On IMDB, they are showing her only appearing in the 2 episodes.

IMDB is notorious for getting actor appearances wrong.

[bichonblitz]

On 4/6/2017 at 1:22 PM, Margohill said:

. People really loved Andre and Rhonda and a lot are still miffed that Anika has not been punished for her evil action against Rhonda and her baby. Everytime I see Anika freely strutting her stuff around, I think of Rhonda being pushed down the stairs by Anika. She should be gone by now. Worst off, Lucious knows about it but brushes it off and still sleeps with her. What gives?

This is exactly why I stopped watching this show. 

[darkestboy]

Good episode. I really liked the last scene with Hakeem and Lucious, one of the best the show has done.

The triangle between Jamal, Derek and Philip is interesting now that Derek has come out.

Cookie and Angelo clearly won't go beyond this season though, that's becoming increasingly obvious.

Intrigued by Giuliana but we need to see her interact with Lucious and Cookie as well as Andre though, 7/10

[tennisgurl]

Hakeem really does need to grow the hell up and stop being so self centered. He had to have seen that those guys seemed shady, and he just started throwing cash and booze at them just because they got him more money? Is this your first day? Andre might be sneaky, but he was totally right about Hakeem getting babied all the time, especially when the family tend to be more tough love on Jamal and Andre. Maybe now that everyone, including his girlfriend, has told him to stop being a selfish punk, it will finally sink in. At least he seemed to show some actual care for his daughter at the end. I honestly keep forgetting the baby is Hakeem's!

Jamal's guy are officially fighting over him! See Derek, this is why you shouldn't be using social media during major emotional moments in your life. I think this might actually be a decent love triangle, maybe even a parallel to the Lucious/Cookie/Angelo. Torn between a more stable, well adjusted guy, and a more trouble making musical guy.

What is up with the lighting in this show lately? Why all the dark shots and low lighting? I want to actually SEE what's going on from time to time.

[Dee]

Hakeem joining Tiana and Jamal onstage for 'I Got You' reminded me so much of Hakeem and Jamal's impromptu 'Live In The Moment' jam session on the Lyon Family yacht in the pilot.

The Lyon Brothers are all pretty great as individuals but they truly shine together.

[Margohill]

4 hours ago, Dee said:

The Lyon Brothers are all pretty great as individuals but they truly shine together.

The three brothers had a great scene in the elevator in S1 when Andre was having another breakdown episode and his brothers sang to him. That was very touching. We need more of those family reunion touching scenes.

[Biggie B]

Cookie slipping her gun into Angelo's pocket and asking him to get rid of it for her is going to blow up (pun intended) in both of their faces. It's gonna turn up in the wrong place at the wrong time and that will be that for Angelo, I suspect.

[questionfear]

On 4/7/2017 at 1:17 AM, healthnut said:

1. Nothing rivals the Super Bowl. Empire at its peak still didn't touch The Walking Dead, which peaked in season 5. 

2. An All Black drama that shows us at our worst. Why make excuses for the show by saying the ratings are still better than most shows and dismiss the fact the show is doing half of what it did just a few months ago in the fall. 

3. The writing is completely disjointed. Even Taraji P plans on bailing as soon as the shows gets to 100 episodes Taraji P won't play Cookie for long

No disrespect, just my opinion, but FOX can't be happy with the slide and if they aren't concerned they're crazy. I want the show to do well because it gives opportunities for future black shows. But I fear they've ruined it and it's reached a point of no return. 

That doesn't surprise me at all. Taraji P has been on a tear lately, and if she is being offered more choices like "Hidden Figures" vs Empire...well...there's a point where she doesn't need to stick around. 

[Lovecat]

On 4/6/2017 at 5:38 AM, thuganomics85 said:

He [Hakeem] really is an immature punk.  And, yet, I still root for him to finally wise up.  At least that scene with his daughter was nice.  And even Lucious' speech to him was.... gulp, touching.  I rarely say that about Lucious!

Well what I say about Lucious is if his lips are moving, he's lying, so Hakeem better check the receipts on that touching birth story.  His mama may well have a different recollection of events.

[jhlipton]

On 4/5/2017 at 10:01 PM, SimoneS said:

What on earth did Tiana have on when she was performing?

Since this is not the real Tiana -- the one who knew Hakeem well enough to stay away from his "romancing" -- they dress her to be his girl.  Because God forbid she have her own life.  No woman working with a Lyon can resist their sex appeal! (Blargh!)

On 4/5/2017 at 10:13 PM, Gillian Rosh said:

And speaking of Andre, he was not lying when he told Juliana that this is how he does business.

He was lying, and Guilanna knew he was lying, when he said Nessa would be cool with it.  Nuh uh.

 

On 4/6/2017 at 0:28 PM, HansMoleman742 said:

Where did everybody go?

For me, this show has devolved to "Which Lyon is fighting with which other Lyon this week?"  Awfully repetitive.

On 4/6/2017 at 4:04 PM, Dee said:

It also has to be factored in that Empire is the first and only ALL Black drama on primetime television to EVER be granted subsequent seasons,

One thing that's interesting is that Daniels has said that Rhonda was added to give a White POV (because Black-led shows need a White POV even though White-led shows don't need a Black POV).  However, Empire has kept it's lead on Fox (Cancel Bear has it's Renew / Cancel index at 2.27 -- the next highest show is The Simpsons at 1.13 -- half that) without the White POV so it's obviously not necessary.

[Rowan]

I do miss the Rhonda and Andre dynamic. And the choice to have Anika be basically responsible for that ending the way it did, basically ended two characters for me. I can't root for her after all that mess, and I did root for her to get the better of Luscious's evil ass. 

I'm hanging in there for Cookie, but that's about it. There is some damn fine acting on this show, but the actual storytelling is something I've begun to dread. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 4/6/2017 at 1:09 PM, Dakisela said:

OK, not really getting the Giuliana character.  First she's this dishrag that cowers next to her husband that beats her and now she's acting like some high-powered boss lady?  What was the point of THAT first meeting, then?????   If I were Andre I certainly wouldn't take her any more seriously than an easy lay to get what he wants. He's certainly going to be surprised when he gets a load of Gino!!!!

Presumably part of an act to make Andre feel like a hero and not realize the extent of her schemes. If I were Andre, I would not bother trying to sleep with Giuliana, because a) clearly Nessa is not into the open relationship thing and b) Shine barely held back from attacking Andre on the basis that Andre's sleeping with Nessa. Pretty sure if Shine found out he was cheating on Nessa, Shine would kill him regardless of their partnership or the dirt Andre might have.