S06.E16: Mother's Little Helper

[OnceUponAJen]

5 minutes ago, Worsel said:

Yes, and don't they all need some Hopper time?  I'd love an episode totally devoted to everyone in the town seeing Dr. Hopper.  Especially the minor characters (like the Chief, always mopping the hospital dungeon floor - he has GOT to be depressed.)

Hey, they used to do just this in M*A*S*H. I'm showing my age, now!

[Jul 68]

Do we know who wrote this episode? I make a point to watch for the writing credit at the beginning of each episode and noticed that instead of Written By: SoAnd So, it said Story By: A&E.

Have they done this before and I just missed it?

Is this the new Alan Smithee?

[Worsel]

1 minute ago, Jul 68 said:

Do we know who wrote this episode? I make a point to watch for the writing credit at the beginning of each episode and noticed that instead of Written By: SoAnd So, it said Story By: A&E.

Have they done this before and I just missed it?

Is this the new Alan Smithee?

per the OUAT wiki: written by Paul Karp after a story by Edward Kitsis & Adam Horowitz

[srpturtle80]

Another bad guy in another show I watch (Supergirl) demanded Hamilton tickets in exhange for the release of information a few weeks ago, so that scene just felt like a rip-off to me.

I didn't hate it, but I am wondering how much longer they are going to keep hook and Emma separated. Also that scene with Emma wrapped in the spider's web was one of the cheesiest things I have ever seen.

Edited April 10, 2017 by srpturtle80

[Jul 68]

7 minutes ago, OnceUponAJen said:

Hey, they used to do just this in M*A*S*H. I'm showing my age, now!

Sidney's episodes were generally the better ones. At least we don't have a CL Flagg on this show. ?

[Vader12]

With Blackbeard appearing in Neverland, it reminded me of Pan (2015).

That's 3 references from three Peter Pan movies. Hook mentioning he killed Rufio like he did in "Hook", Blackbeard appearing in Neverland like he did in "Pan", and that Hook murdered the father of one of our true heroes (Charming) like he did to Pan's father in "Neverland".

[Kktjones]

14 minutes ago, srpturtle80 said:

Also that scene with Emma wrapped in the spider's web was one of the cheesiest things I have ever seen.

Seriously - it looked like the Walmart spiderwebs my neighbors put on their bushes at Halloween.

All in all, not a terrible episode. I found the Hook/Blackbeard scenes extremely entertaining. Emma seemed to be a little more herself this time, but I was really hoping for more of the mother/daughter bonding they promised us. Sorry, but at this point in what is likely the last season, I don't care about the backstory of a random character and I'm really getting sick of Emma & Hook being separated.

Edited April 10, 2017 by Kktjones

[MaiLuna]

Shouldn't they have shown us more about how The Black Fairy raised Gideon instead of just that one scene we have already heard of? 

Why couldn't we have had more Emma/Snow? It's like the show is allergic to this relationship. 

I love Charles Mesure as Blackbeard. Hook's part of the episode was fun and the type I'd expect from a fairytale show. 

I always find weird Isaac is in jail for "trying to kill them all" when Regina has done the same but she hasn't spent more than a day behind bars. They let him go at the end so at least they're not so hypocritical. But King George is still there while his crimes are 100 times more minor than Regina's and Rumpel's. 

[BoPeeps]

Well, I'll be damned. I mostly enjoyed it.

[superloislane]

That was actually a fun episode - at least the most fun I've had watching this show since the Charming episode. It didn't enrage me at all! That's a definite plus!

I would watch an entire episode where Emma punches and force chokes people who have screwed her over. And that could definitely fill a whole episode with the amount she'd have to get through. I'm glad she was back to herself and not moping and being sad anymore. Also I love how nice Emma was being to the guy who tried to murder her and sent her love away to another world because 'he needed hope'. I just love Emma ok.

Hook and Blackbeard were pretty funny together but I'm really trying to figure out the point of separating Hook and Emma this much. It's not like Hook is doing anything important to justify sending him away like finding a cure for the Snowing curse. He's just sent away and he's trying to get back and that's it. And it doesn't do anything for Emma either - they could have had her work with Gideon in any other way. I'm just so pissed off that they're separating them so much in what could be the last season!

Where the hell does Blackbeard keep getting magic beans???

Also what was the point of Isaac? That was one of the worst half seasons and THE stupidest story and yet here he is again. I found it hilarious that they went to the trouble of getting him a car (did Regina talk that over with anyone?) and letting him leave and all he did was tell them to look in the book. The book that Henry is always looking at but he decided not to look in this time.

Regina also killed that Oracle girl earlier this season and no one has brought that up but they bring up Dr Doolittle in a cage??

Still don't overly care about Gideon. And wow they're really going overboard with all this 'The Black Fairy is soooo evil' stuff. And is it just me or is Belle more useless than ever? Why isn't she spending her days trying to contact her son? Rumple talked to him. Emma talked to him. But Belle? Nah other people will help him!

Edited April 10, 2017 by superloislane

[Tiger]

I really enjoyed Hook & Blackbeard's adventure, and I loved seeing Emma acting like a bad ass mother shut your mouth with Gidiot at the beginning.   But I just dont give a single flying fuck about any of this Black Fairy stuff.

1 hour ago, Eolivet said:

Or not. Because people can just be evil. But this show has never met a storytelling cheat it didn't love. Why act like years of abuse by the Black Fairy actually changed Gideon's personality? No -- it was because My Evil Fake Mommy Ripped Out My Heart.

Hey guys, you could've just sent Roderick to the Land of Untold Stories, because I'm pretty sure he and Gideon were a True Love's Kiss waiting to happen.

I think the Gidiot actor is pretty terrible, but damn the hoyay was off the charts in that scene.

Edited April 10, 2017 by Tiger

[oncebluethrone]

I enjoyed this episode immensely. I really liked seeing Emma being back to her normal self and fighting the spider. I honestly thought Gideon had decided working with her would be better, so when he turned on her, I was surprised. However, he is being controlled by the Black Fairy so that might not have been entirely his choice. The scene where the spider was wrapping Emma up scared me a lot and I was relieved when Rumple showed up to cut her out. In regards to the flashback, the Black Fairy appears to be as evil as she was said to be. Her being the creator of the dark curse was a nice touch. My favorite scenes were probably the Hook and Blackbeard ones. I loved how we got to see Hook trade his ship the second time and his and Blackbeard's banter. In regards to the return to Neverland, it was underwhelming, but I am hoping that next week will be better. And speaking of Neverland, I am really disappointed that Emma didn't open a portal to there like I thought she might. Maybe next week. I thought the Author part was pretty good. Intriguing, but not terribly exciting.

Spoiler

It does appear to set up the end of the season, though, in regards to the final battle and the final chapter

. All in all, I overall loved it, but am sorely disappointed in Emma and Killian's continued separation.

[Camera One]

During the first half, I thought it was one of the better episodes this half-season, though that's not saying much.  But then I got whiplash from all the times Gideon changed his tact, and just stopped caring around the time he decided to kill Emma... again.  And in the end, his heart was being controlled the whole time, which was just so original.  Cheap tactics like that means this episode would suffer greatly on rewatch and I'm getting bored writing about it.

The Writers know we want mother-daughter bonding scenes?  So they give that one line, Snow promptly disappears for 5/6th of the episode, and Emma gets saddled with Gideon for the rest of it.

Are they testing out a spinoff with only Hook because it's the only character they want to write for anymore?  I did like the banter he had with Blackbeard, though Lost Boys redux is not enticing me.  Not that I want to see more of them, but even Rumbelle is sidelined when the arc is about their son.  I resent that it was Rumple who saved Emma.  I'd even have preferred Regina.

What else is new, the Author/Book stuff makes no sense.  What does Henry's trances/"the author powers taking over" have to do with the Savior's final battle, or with the end of the Book?  They just linked a few random things together and called it an explanation.

The actress who plays The Black Fairy was excellent.  She could have been a great half-season arc villain.  Though seriously, what an idiot.  Why didn't she just destroy "Her Handsome Hero" the day Gideon arrived?  None of it made any sense.  Why would Roger, aka kidnapped baby #5000, know about The Savior, or the orb, or the Dark Curse?  Her "testing" of Gideon was stupid... why not just control his heart right from the start?  Oh wait, she has maternal feelings which will appear in the episode she dies, right?  And her control of Gideon in Storybrooke was all over the place.  He could never have defeated Emma?  If so, what was with that Death Prophesy?  Why didn't The Black Fairy just kill Emma outright at the Sorcerer's Mansion so there wasn't a risk she couldn't fit through the portal?  Why did the portal have to occur in the clocktower?  

So overall, parts of the episode was slightly more entertaining and engaging, but in the bigger picture, it was still a total mess. where half the featured characters were actually guest stars.

Edited April 10, 2017 by Camera One

[superloislane]

Quote

And maybe for the next episode, they'll reveal that this overly complex plan is even more complex and it was all done to make her think he doesn't want to kill her but really he still wants to kill her! Wow what a twist!

I wrote this in the 'A Wondrous Place' episode thread - I was actually right!!!

[Camera One]

Yeah, and they've played this trick enough times that I was wary of Gideon the entire time, especially when he was giddily getting Emma to arrange the various objects on the table in front of the portal door.  

A&E needs to read "The Boy Who Cried Wolf". 

Edited April 10, 2017 by Camera One

[Noneofyourbusiness]

3 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

It was just standard pirate practice not to leave any witnesses.

Actually standard pirate practice is to leave witnesses to spread their reputation, which was a problem many of us had with that plot.

[KAOS Agent]

That wasn't as terrible as other A&E episodes, so good job on hitting a single rather than striking out, guys.

Notes:

- Why did we spend more than half an episode on scenes that featured only guest stars? I like the Black Fairy, but I didn't need all those flashbacks to Gideon's childhood. I was largely bored with them.

- I have no idea why Hook needs to be traveling the realms alone, but I would watch the adventures of Hook and Blackbeard on a weekly basis. 

- Not impressed with the Stiltskin/Charming feud. Is Emma just supposed to stand around doing nothing while Gideon continues to try to kill her? She gave him a second chance and he screwed her over again. Having his heart controlled isn't a valid excuse either since apparently killing the Count of Monte Cristo was A-OK back when he was after the Charmings due to heart control and Regina killed him.

- Henry's author plot is dumb. I don't care about it.

- The Black Fairy created all the Darkness? So Nimue's becoming the Dark One and being created by corruption of the gods' magic is usurped by a measly fairy? Lame.

- Did love the Black Fairy telling Gideon it was all on him...and her boot.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

4 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

Adam had an answer for that.  He said on Twitter that "For the record, in the #OnceUponATime universe #Hamilton hit Broadway about 18 months earlier than in our universe. #timelinepolice"

Ahhh, so timeline police = people who actually pay attention to the show aka NOT A&E

[PixiePaws1]

Am i seeing things...the backs of the cards that Hook shuffles are not exactly a sword ..more like a cross but the top looks like the pommel of the sword that Gideon uses..

[Writing Wrongs]

They keep passing the Dark Curse buck.

This show has the most cringe-worthy family connections.

[Randomosity]

I tend to see shows that I watch through to the bitter end. The only show I've ever given up on was 'Desperate Housewives' when it got really insane. Sadly, OUAT is getting dangerously close to becoming the 2nd.

I don't even know what just happened. Continuity of any sort? Not so much. Reasonable human relationships and interactions? Not even close. Then again, I barely paid attention, so maybe I missed things that made total sense!

One thing that really bugged me? Suddenly Neverland, where they spent an entire half-season, looks nothing like it did before. It was clearly just another little woodsy bit of shore in BC, just like every other Storybrooke/Enchanted Forest/Arendelle/everywhere else. It was gross, humid jungle the first time around, no? No wonder Hook didn't recognize it right away despite supposedly having spent, what 200+ years there or something?

Ugh.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

If you needed any further proof that Belle and Gold refuse to believe that their precious ickle Gideon could do anything bad despite all evidence to the contrary, I give you:

Belle: Emma, please don't hurt Gideon. He was not born evil. She made him this way. If you help him, he will be on the side of good. I'm certain.

Emma: I know you want to believe the best in [Gideon], but it's like you said. Evil is not born. It is made. And that's exactly what the black fairy did to him.
Gold: Careful with your accusations, Miss Swan. Need I remind you I saved your life tonight?
Emma: Because your son tried to kill me - AGAIN.
Gold: He needs help.
Emma: You can't keep cleaning up his messes, Gold. He needs to take responsibility for his actions.
Gold: Are you threatening my child?
Emma: I don't have a choice. He's tried to kill me twice. I'm not going to give him a third chance.

This kid could be the next Charles Manson and these two would keep defending him and saying that he's good deep down inside. With an attitude like that, it's no wonder that Belle kept going back to Gold. And of course Gold think that Emma should just lie down and let Gideon kill her rather than harm a hair on his head.

Edited April 10, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Chicken Wing]

I cared more about Gideon's friend in that brief moment as he was turned into a bug and squished than I did about all of the regular characters in all of their screen time this season combined.

[buffynut]

I came here to read the comments to decide if I'd watch the episode online or not.  Since I HATE spiders, I'll definitely be skipping this one.

[Amerilla]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

This kid could be the next Charles Manson and these two would keep defending him and saying that he's good deep down inside.

Because the proper response to your kid being kidnapped, tortured, and controlled by a malevolent being -- all experiences you yourselves have had -- is  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ? 

I'm not saying the story is good, or that Emma is wrong, just that Rumpel and Belle could hardly act otherwise under the circumstances. 

Edited April 10, 2017 by Amerilla

[Primetimer]

It's not Hamilton jokes or bad child actors, but both are right up there.

View the full article

[iMonrey]

Quote

They keep passing the Dark Curse buck.

For real. I can't keep up. I don't know how many times the writers think they can just change their minds about this whenever they get a new idea. It's ridiculous at this point.

Let me see if I've got this straight: Belle gave Gideon to the Blue Fairy to keep him away from Rumple; the Black Fairy kidnapped him from Blue and raised him as her own. And the Blue Fairy was just like . . .  "ok, then, whatever?" She didn't try to get him back or anything? And why haven't Belle or Rumple tried to explain to Gideon what happened to him? Clearly Black Fairy led him to believe they "abandoned" him. 

I can't believe there are seven more episodes left of this - the story is really dragging and they've seriously over-estimated our interest in Gideon. Maybe they think we're so in love with Rumple and Belle that Gideon by association is equally compelling? The actor is a dud, there's no charisma whatsoever. 

[kili]

So, the worst of the Lost Boys refused to come  home when they left Neverland? Felix, Pan's closest ally and henchman was not the worst? Seriously? I'll take retcon for $200, Alex.

Who else laughed when Emma told Gidiot that opening a portal to another realm would be hard? Didn't Regina open one just a few weeks ago to not only send Robin home, but her evil self too? And then there was the portal that was created last week by Gideon. And Blackbeard had a portal creating bean in his hat. He gets those with the drop of a hat. Portal hopping is the Storybrooke equivalent of taking the bus these days.

[Curio]

29 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I can't believe there are seven more episodes left of this - the story is really dragging and they've seriously over-estimated our interest in Gideon. Maybe they think we're so in love with Rumple and Belle that Gideon by association is equally compelling? The actor is a dud, there's no charisma whatsoever. 

I don't think the actor is doing a bad job per se, but the obnoxious writing for his character the last few episodes has made him very hard to root for. His nonsensical plan to kill Emma was sooooo stupid that I already branded him an idiot, and even though we now know he was being controlled the entire time by the Black Fairy, that doesn't take away me thinking he's been an idiot for the past month of television. If there was something in his performance to hint to the audience that he was being controlled then maybe it would have worked better, but I have a feeling A&E did their classic "we need to keep this actor in the dark until the reveal" shtick and Giles didn't know he was being controlled until this episode.

But yeah, I agree that A&E overestimated how invested the audience would be in Gideon's character. Instead of this flashback making me feel bad for his character, I felt like the writers were just trying to one-up how terrible Gideon's childhood was compared to every other character's terrible childhoods. "Oh, you think Emma had it bad being bounced from foster home to foster home? Guess what? Gideon was tortured every day and he lived in a jail cell and the Black Fairy was super mean to him."

[Camera One]

The actor playing Gideon isn't bad.  But in this episode, he got way too much screentime, and it wasn't even interesting and made him seem an even bigger loser than he was.  

The attempts at "complexity" are just pathetic.  Notice how AFTER we found out he lost his heart, The Black Fairy tells him that he a part of him must like helping her.  See audience, it's not simple heart control.  Gideon has COMPLEX and CONFLICTED feelings.  Or maybe not!  We still need to drag out his true motivations until his last episode.

I don't get how that sword was able "harness" Emma's powers.

So that cave The Black Fairy lives in is the darkest of all realms?  Ha!  Or did they mean it was darkest in a literal sense, because she wears black and caves are dark?

So the Savior's tears not only block portals and open them too to let in that spider.  But why didn't it work for the Black Fairy too?  Tears are so useful... she could have cried a little in 2A to get home, and cry a little more in 3A to get home... no need for Shadow Air... and cry a little in the Wish Realm, in the Underworld, in the 5B finale in NYC to get her parents and Hook back.  Who needs The Apprentice's Wand?   

Edited April 10, 2017 by Camera One

[kili]

Do we know why the Black Fairy went to all that trouble to kidnap Gideon as a baby, but never bothered to do the same to Rumple or Bae? Malcolm hated being a father - he would have gladly given Rumple to his wife (and thanked her). Bae's parents did love him, but they had no power at all (compared supposedly to a Blue Fairy and the Dark One), so he should have been easy to kidnap as a baby.

[Noneofyourbusiness]

25 minutes ago, kili said:

Do we know why the Black Fairy went to all that trouble to kidnap Gideon as a baby, but never bothered to do the same to Rumple or Bae? Malcolm hated being a father - he would have gladly given Rumple to his wife (and thanked her). Bae's parents did love him, but they had no power at all (compared supposedly to a Blue Fairy and the Dark One), so he should have been easy to kidnap as a baby.

I've been thinking. Since the Dark Curse requires crushing the heart of the thing you love most, maybe the Black Fairy abandoned baby Rumple without even naming him so that she wouldn't get attached and he wouldn't be the thing she loved most, so she wouldn't have to crush his heart. Of course, that doesn't bode well for Gideon.

She didn't know her son's identity until hundreds of years later, so she wouldn't have known to have any interest in Bae.

[tennisgurl]

That spider made me feel like Emma was fighting IT from the Stephen King book. Emma going to Stephen Kings Maine, which is possibly the town right next to Storeybrooke? That would have been awesome.

Anyway, the episode was alright, especially compared to the last few weeks of bullshit and boredom. Emma actually seemed like Emma again, Emma and Snow on a mission together and being ready to do what it takes to deal with the bad guy, that was at least nice to see. Mostly I was bored by seeing Gideon's backstory. Its not anything we didn't know about him already, and, as it turns out, he isn't brainwashed or insane from torture at all, he's being controlled by the Dark Fairy. Which makes the whole thing basically pointless. Of course. I'm just not that invested in this guy. Its not like we ever got to know him before the Dark Fairy got him, we just know he's Rumple and Bells kid, and since I'm not that invested in them, I'm not super invested in their kid. Again, you had Jaffar last week, a great classic Disney villain played by a charismatic actor, with an interesting backstory and power set, and instead of letting him be the Big Bad, he gets turned into a stick after three episodes, and we get stuck with Gideon and the Black Fairy, who aren't characters that we know anything about or are invested in, beyond being part of the bizarre and convoluted Charming/Stiltken family tree.

I did enjoy Hook and Blackbeard, they're banter was funny, and the guy who plays Blackbeard is a ton of fun. Looks like that's already over though. And now Hook is back in Neverland with the Super Bad Lost Boys, who were never mentioned until right now because...reasons. And now Neverland looks just like a stupid forest, just like every other realm we see, but this one has a beach! Such adventure! I still have no idea what the point of separating Hook and Emma like this. Nothing Hook is doing is exciting enough to justify this, and it just leads to more unnecessary angst.

So, hey, the Author still exists! In the insane house they stick all their villains not related to a main character! Do they not have trails in this world? Can they just lock people up and throw away the key? Oh, so enthused to get a call back to that utterly pointless and maddening storyline. One of the most interesting ideas the show had, that instantly became stupid and ridiculous. And what is going on with Henry, exactly? Since when is this "possessed by the magic of the author power" issue a thing? You cant keep making stuff up as it goes along, show!

It looks like we are heading towards the end of the show, with Isaac being all "its the final chapter of the book" ominousness, and the call backs to the original Dark Curse, and to the previous seasons. Does this mean the show really is ending? Or are they just screwing with us at this point?

[Amerilla]

20 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

It looks like we are heading towards the end of the show, with Isaac being all "its the final chapter of the book" ominousness, and the call backs to the original Dark Curse, and to the previous seasons. Does this mean the show really is ending? Or are they just screwing with us at this point?

 

They're probably just trying to cover their bases. If they get canceled, the "final chapter" closes it out. If they get a S7 pickup, they just pretend it's  "new chapter" in a "new story." 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

2 hours ago, PreviouslyTV said:

It's not Hamilton jokes or bad child actors, but both are right up there.

View the full article

"Why could the Nemo leave Storybrooke?"

The protection spell is only a physical barrier to stop people crossing over the town line. It doesn't prevent portals. The Nautilus was always planning to leave by portal.

"And why is she so resistant?"

Because of what Gideon did to her, of course. Doesn't matter to Emma *what* he wants if this is his pitch.

"Why do we have to watch a scene we've already had described to us in great detail?"

That was ridiculous duplication of effort. They should have come up with another instance of the Black Fairy torturing Gideon; we already knew that one.

"If the Black Fairy is the source of all dark magic, what the hell are the Dark Ones?"

This is a big inconsistency, because by the timeline clues we've been given, the Dark Ones should be older than she is. But that whole subplot has been quietly brushed aside. And how did the Dark Curse end up being guarded by the Chernabog?

[Curio]

7 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

"Why could the Nemo leave Storybrooke?"

I think you mean Nautilus, @adam807. Unless we're calling Captain Nemo 'The Nemo' like we do with 'The Ohio State University.'

I think I would have preferred watching a flashback of the Black Fairy and Malcom meeting for the first time. Now that would be interesting...

[Shanna Marie]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Belle gave Gideon to the Blue Fairy to keep him away from Rumple; the Black Fairy kidnapped him from Blue and raised him as her own. And the Blue Fairy was just like . . .  "ok, then, whatever?" She didn't try to get him back or anything?

I don't think she had time. They found Blue in the woods, unconscious and injured, and then they'd barely got her awake enough to tell them what happened before adult Gideon returned.

1 hour ago, Camera One said:

I don't get how that sword was able "harness" Emma's powers.

Didn't Rumple have the sword to begin with? Emma found it in Rumple's shop before Gideon came to town. Did the Black Fairy know it was in town and that Gideon would be able to use it? And how could it harness Emma's powers while she was dying of some other means? If it worked like that, then why not just magically drop a building on her or make a dwarf's car run her down or have the drunk vikings kill her in a bar fight? This is looking like the most ridiculously convoluted plan ever: In order for the Black Fairy to get to our world to stay, she sent Gideon to fight Emma and lose (may or may not have been the plan), and when he lost, plan B was to send Hook away and make Emma think he abandoned her so he could get her tears to make it impossible for a portal to open and Hook to come back, in order to make Emma have to cooperate with him, but that was just a setup to trap her with a giant spider that would kill her so her power could be indirectly drained into the sword.

I'm really hoping that there's some point to Hook's side adventures other than as blackmail material for Emma. I'm not optimistic, though, because there's been no point to much of anything done this season, other than tangential things. So the Savior death prophecy and shakes never really went anywhere but seemed to just be an excuse to bring up the shears and create the Wishverse that was needed to resolve the Evil Queen plot. Nothing much came of the Aladdin/Jasmine/Jafar plot that had any effect on the main plot. The Evil Queen came and went without anything being changed -- even Regina reverted to being her part bad/part good self (after the all good self wasn't any different). The murder plot seemed to just be to set up Hook being sent away and probably won't end up changing things. Now, will Hook go away and come back or will he do something or find something that ends up being key to the story?

Speaking of #timelinepolice, are the two storylines in any kind of sync? Because all the Emma stuff picked up right after the end of the last episode, when Hook was calling to her from Agrabah. The bulk of her part of the story happened the very next day. But Hook somehow managed to get from Agrabah to what looked like the Mysthaven port city and its Ye Olde Tavern that we saw in the time travel adventure and in the Missing Year bit with Ariel, Blackbeard, and Hook. It definitely wasn't in Agrabah. When we last left Hook in Agrabah, he wasn't sure how he was going to get away from there. It was reachable by sea, and that's how Ariel was going to leave, but when Eric went there, he went by land (the reason Ariel was going to have to confess what she was and couldn't go with him) in spite of being a sailor, so it must be difficult to get to by sea, like maybe having to sail all the way around Africa before they opened the Suez Canal. Either land or sea, we're talking a weeks-long journey. So, did he waterski behind Ariel at mermaid speed? Did he find a magician in Agrabah who could poof him back to the Enchanted Forest? How did he get to Blackbeard in less than one day? Or are they out of sync and this is several days later for him? If so, then the portal block was still working when they tried the magic bean. There's a lot we can assume by reading between the lines -- I don't need to see the scene where a grateful Jasmine and/or her father give Hook the jewels he needs to buy a magic bean because that's a logical assumption -- but when we left the last episode with Hook wondering how he's going to get out of Agrabah, with no solution in sight, it's weird for him to just appear elsewhere the next day with no mention of how he did it.

[tennisgurl]

I'm just really confused as to how the Dark Fairy fits into the established mythology of this show. So, she created the Dark Curse? Then how did Maleficent get it? Why does she kidnap children? Couldn't she just hire grown miners to do this? Hell, isn't this what the dwarfs are genetically created to do? Why doesn't she kidnap them, or just buy them off with crappy fairy dust and booze? Why use a workforce with slaves who cant do the same amount of work as an adult? Because they're easier to control? If she so powerful, why should that matter? Is it just because she's evil? Does she eat them? Does she raise them to be her brainwashed lackeys? Because it seemed like that what she was doing, but she apparently sucks at that considering her pet project/Grandson, Gideon, threw off her control with a few puppy eyes from his childhood crush (what? I saw it) and an inspirational speech. And all this for the Dark Curse? Well, what's her endgame? I thought this was all the manipulations of Rumple? And if she's the Biggest Bad that ever was Bad, what about the Dark Ones? How do they fit into anything? And isn't it kind of a coincidence that her only son just happened to become one of them? Unless she was behind that to, in which case, this chick is more like the Count of Monte Cristo then than the actual Count of Monte Cristo!

Also, the way Gideon was talking, Emma is supposed to be the Savior to specifically save everyone from the Dark Curse, the way it was the start of the show. But, we have spent the last few seasons acting like there are tons of Saviors running around. Why is Emma so specifically needed for this curse then? Technically, couldn't Gideon just get Aladdin or another Savior from another world to end the Dark Curse if they couldn't find Emma? or do Saviors exist just to save their home town? Do the writers just not talk to each other? How have they taken something that started out so simple end up so complicated?!?!

I also had a special eye roll for Belle and her "he wasn't born evil!" thing when she was talking to Emma about how she shouldn't hurt Gideon. I get her and Rumple wanting to save their kid, but they're trying to justify it in the stupidest ways possible. I would focus on "he's probably insane and brainwashed and he isn't responsible for his actions" then some abstract "he was born good and there's still good in him" bullshit. Yeah, he wasn't born evil, NO ONE is born evil! The only people you could say are born bad are I guess sociopaths or people who are born with a desire to kill, and that's more of a mental condition, not "evil". Who cares if he started off as good? By that logic, we should let all murderers just about  their way about stabbing several dozen people to death, just because when he didn't come straight out of the womb cackling evilly and trying to strangle people with his umbilical cord, so that means he actually a good guy. We know he isn't actually evil, but they don't!

Edited April 10, 2017 by tennisgurl

[kili]

Quote

I'm just really confused as to how the Dark Fairy fits into the established mythology of this show. So, she created the Dark Curse? Then how did Maleficent get it?

Maleficent got it from Regina. The time line appears to be something like this (according to the latest retcon):

1) Black Fairy creates it in the form of a scroll

2) Somehow Cherbourg  is guarding the scroll.

3) Rumple tricks Maleficent, Ursula and Cruella into helping him steal the scroll.

4) Rumple gives the scroll to Regina to cast the curse.

5) Regina trades the scroll to Maleficent for a Sleeping Curse (which Charming defeats)

6) Regina steals back the scroll from Maleficent.

7) Regina uses the scroll to cast the curse.

8) Pan uses the scroll to cast the curse again - but worse. There will be no savior.

9) Regina rips up the scroll to stop Pan's curse and to end the Storybrooke curse she cast dragging everybody back to where they once were.

10) Snow casts the curse without the scroll but at least with Regina's help who had seen the scroll. The scroll doesn't seem to be needed anymore, but for some reason, it was very critical when Pan cast it.

11) Dark One Hook casts the curse without a scroll, help from anybody who had read the scroll or without even 5 seconds of planning.

12) I start to wonder why the don't just create some other dark curse because this one seems a little overused.

Edited April 10, 2017 by kili

[angel1008]

15 hours ago, scenicbyway said:

 

Why didn't Blackbeard just take out another magic bean to get to the Jolly Roger?

I think Gideon explained that only HE can break that curse, no matter what anyone else does.

[kili]

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I think Gideon explained that only HE can break that curse, no matter what anyone else does.

Sure, but while Blackbeard was sitting on his butt without a ship, why didn't he use the bean to get to the Jolly Roger before Gidiot sealed the portal? Since the Nautilus went through a portal, there is no reason Blackbeard couldn't have done that. Blackbeard seems to be able to get beans even more easily than Hook. Maybe he grows them in that hat of his.

[Rumsy4]

I just finished watching the episode. Not bad. The parts with Hook and Blackbeard were the most entertaining. That one-handed shuffle was the BOMB! 

As for the Author stuff, it was so completely disconnected from everything, and made zero sense whatever. It was just there to signal the end of the Show-as-we-know-it. 

Emma and Gideon, and all the Gideon flashbacks were a drag. And once we found that Gideon was being controlled by the Black Fairy, the whole plot became meaningless. Who cares if he was born evil or made evil at this point? I think Jamie Murray is fantastic. I weep at the wasted potential of the BF and Jafar this season. Instead we were stuck with Evil Cleavage redux and Gidiot. 

[KingOfHearts]

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Instead we were stuck with Evil Cleavage redux

The actress is what makes the Black Fairy. With Regina and Zelena, they were chewing the scenery exactly how A&E wanted them to. Jaime Murray, though, is bringing her own spin to the role. The writing for the character is meh at best, but you can tell she loves it. She has the charisma of Sparkly!Rumple, but her performance leads me to believe her character is more layered than what may be initially apparent. It could be possible that to the Black Fairy, the ends justify the means, as it did with Rumple finding Bae. It's too early to make a call, but I have hope she's not a superficial Big Bad with nothing else to offer.

Why would the mother of all darkness want to send people to a quaint postcard town in Maine? Makes you wonder. 

Quote

And once we found that Gideon was being controlled by the Black Fairy, the whole plot became meaningless. Who cares if he was born evil or made evil at this point?

I'm not a fan of Rumpbelle angst by stretch of the imagination, but wasn't Gideon supposed evolve their relationship? Now they're just agreeing with each other on all accounts. There's zero conflict over what to do about their son. They were fighting over what to do with him when he was a fetus, but now Belle is okay with Rumple's unscrupulous methods and Rumple is a believer in finding good in the heart? Gideon should be their problem, not Emma's.

Edited April 10, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[TheRabbi]

21 hours ago, hockeycat400 said:

Hamilton tickets.   Bwahahahaha!!!

No one's magic is that powerful.

This was my favorite moment of the season so far. Probably isn't a good statement about the rest of the show

[iMonrey]

Quote

The actress is what makes the Black Fairy. With Regina and Zelena, they were chewing the scenery exactly how A&E wanted them to. Jaime Murray, though, is bringing her own spin to the role.

Does this mean we're going to have to spend a whole season on her redemption arc too? I mean, Rebecca Mader clearly relished her role just as much in the beginning and now Zelena just kind of sits around in the background. This show needs to learn how to let their villains go.

[KingOfHearts]

7 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Does this mean we're going to have to spend a whole season on her redemption arc too? I mean, Rebecca Mader clearly relished her role just as much in the beginning and now Zelena just kind of sits around in the background. This show needs to learn how to let their villains go.

Do Stiltskins ever truly redeem themselves? The Black Fairy, Pan, Rumple, Neal, Gideon and Henry still aren't heroes in my book.

Edited April 10, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[TheRabbi]

12 hours ago, Randomosity said:

I tend to see shows that I watch through to the bitter end. The only show I've ever given up on was 'Desperate Housewives' when it got really insane. Sadly, OUAT is getting dangerously close to becoming the 2nd.

 

I've always liked this topic, because I am the same way. It takes a lot for me to give up on a show I was invested in. Most recently, I finally called it quits on Sleepy hollow this year about halfway through season 4, because it's been just dreadful 2 straight years. I'm probably with OUAT til the end at this point. It can't have much longer than a year left because the ratings have plummeted.

[andromeda331]

7 hours ago, kili said:

Maleficent got it from Regina. The time line appears to be something like this (according to the latest retcon):

1) Black Fairy creates it in the form of a scroll

2) Somehow Cherbourg  is guarding the scroll.

3) Rumple tricks Maleficent, Ursula and Cruella into helping him steal the scroll.

4) Rumple gives the scroll to Regina to cast the curse.

5) Regina trades the scroll to Maleficent for a Sleeping Curse (which Charming defeats)

6) Regina steals back the scroll from Maleficent.

7) Regina uses the scroll to cast the curse.

8) Pan uses the scroll to cast the curse again - but worse. There will be no savior.

9) Regina rips up the scroll to stop Pan's curse and to end the Storybrooke curse she cast dragging everybody back to where they once were.

10) Snow casts the curse without the scroll but at least with Regina's help who had seen the scroll. The scroll doesn't seem to be needed anymore, but for some reason, it was very critical when Pan cast it.

11) Dark One Hook casts the curse without a scroll, help from anybody who had read the scroll or without even 5 seconds of planning.

12) I start to wonder why the don't just create some other dark curse because this one seems a little overused.

About 11 Merlin made the curse when Dark Hook took over and threw Merlin's heart in. Why Merlin was doing that and for what was never answered. 

[Camera One]

7 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

About 11 Merlin made the curse when Dark Hook took over and threw Merlin's heart in. Why Merlin was doing that and for what was never answered. 

This is almost comical, since how would he know how to make the Dark Curse when he had been a tree for who knows how long?

[KingOfHearts]

I don't know if anyone noticed this, but the license plate on the car given to Isaac reads "WED 1901". WED stands for Walter Elias Disney, and he was born in 1901. I recognized it immediately.