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S02.E10: Cascade

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I do love the rare times when my speculation turns out to be right (regarding the unsuited soldier being part of the Martian weapons research program).

I'll make another speculation, that Errinwright gave her a partial disclosure to keep her eye off of Venus. It has everything BUT what the ship found going on there. She'll find out soon, though, because of her inside man.

Bobby is getting more interesting. I started off really disliking her, but now I'm starting to like her.

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I have to admit, this was not my favorite episode.  While Bobbie was one of the most awesome book characters, I'm just not feeling impressed by her here.  She's not physically imposing (as I would think she would need to be to use her powered armor, even in Mars low-gravity environment) and she just seems simple minded.  On the other hand, Chrisjen  - and her beautiful outfits - is just amazing. 

I really like the way the show - especially in this episode - is able to branch out from the core characters (Holden etc) to incorporate fully-realized ones like Prax.  I do miss Diogo, for some reason.

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I look forward to Wednesdays as this is one of my favorite shows.  A general question though.  We view this through our service with Direct TV.  It seems that every week there is an issue with the transmission.  Last night, it froze up during Bobby's work on the window to escape.  Is anyone else having these issues?  I'd like to complain, but I don't know if it is a Direct TV thing or a SciFy channel thing.  We don't have these issues with any other channel or show.  Thanks in advance.

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1 hour ago, wetmoregal said:

I look forward to Wednesdays as this is one of my favorite shows.  A general question though.  We view this through our service with Direct TV.  It seems that every week there is an issue with the transmission.  Last night, it froze up during Bobby's work on the window to escape.  Is anyone else having these issues?  I'd like to complain, but I don't know if it is a Direct TV thing or a SciFy channel thing.  We don't have these issues with any other channel or show.  Thanks in advance.

Happened to me as well (also DirecTV) - getting to be a pretty frequent thing. Plus a couple weeks ago there was a sync issue between the image and the sound, making the dialog off. I watch entirely off DVR though (never live the looooong commercial intervals would drive me batty), so I have never been sure if it is a transmission issue or a DVR issue.

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I think the seeds have been planted to have Bobby open her eyes.  I wonder if she will now work with Chrisjen because she was the only one who told her the truth.  Also, I liked the scene where Bobby sees the ocean for the first time.  It was good.  I didn't read the books, so, perhaps that's why I don't have a problem with Bobby's physique.  We were told that Alex is a Martian and the actor portraying him looks a lot less imposing than the actress portraying Bobby.  She's tall, and muscular, but lean.  It works for me.

Personally, I thought that while it didn't appear as if much happened in this episode, some MAJOR things did happen.  The biggest one, IMO, was that Chrisjen finally found out about the protomolecule, so we can move past the plotline of both nations suspecting each other and always on the brink of war.  Bobby found out her government was using her (and how!) and that they didn't care about Martian lives, as long as it advanced their objectives.  I think Bobby would have been willing to sacrifice her life for Mars in a war with Earth, but she'll have a problem with the Martian government killing soldiers and taking advantage in such a way.  They didn't sign up for that.

It makes sense that Mars has been working with Jules Mao to develop a super weapon.  We have heard many times that as good as the Martians are, Earth still has the military power to crush them and this is why the Martians have tried to avoid the war so far.  It also makes sense that Mao would have someone from Earth involved, in case they could pay better to have the weapon.

We also got confirmation that the attacker in Ganymede was the result of the protomolecule, and this is a version that has fused with a humanoid in a much better way than it did with Julie and all the people in Eros.  I'm going to guess that the disease that both the children had is related to that in some way.

As for our guys in Ganymede, they are in the perfect place for another interaction with the protomolecule, and it will probably be action-packed.

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2 hours ago, WearyTraveler said:

I think the seeds have been planted to have Bobby open her eyes.  I wonder if she will now work with Chrisjen because she was the only one who told her the truth.  Also, I liked the scene where Bobby sees the ocean for the first time.  It was good.  I didn't read the books, so, perhaps that's why I don't have a problem with Bobby's physique.  We were told that Alex is a Martian and the actor portraying him looks a lot less imposing than the actress portraying Bobby.  She's tall, and muscular, but lean.  It works for me.

As I recall, the only cast member more physically imposing is Amos, and he's from Earth, right?

I think Bobby is still suffering from PTSD, and has a flat affect because of that. But her journey to the ocean is opening her eyes, and her conversation with Chrisjen is doing the same. I look forward to seeing how her story develops.

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The past two episodes have been the best.  This feels like a deep story driven si-if show without reaching into the lame jar.  It is something a thinking person can enjoy!

i want to watch it again for one funny comment Amos made again.  Love the writing, amazing show.  I will have a rough time finding something interesting to watch when this season ends. 

Damn good show.  Love the direction and deflections.  

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6 hours ago, WildPlum said:

Happened to me as well (also DirecTV)

Me as well.  That's kind off odd.  Us DirecTV/SyFy people are haunted.

Ahhh so in the far future, people have mastered space travel, colonization...and will still hoard for themselves and take food from starving people to make money.  At least there's Amos to ask for favors in the way most guaranteed to get them.  I am really enjoying the Amos and Prax bonding, which almost certainly has something to do with Amos's story about children being used as prostitutes where he grew up.   I think Wes Chatham is doing a good job with subtle cues that Amos does feel things, maybe not everything that other people feel, but he's not a completely emotionless psycho.   Or maybe I'm biased because Wes is a handsome guy!

Naomi does NOT like to see that shit from Holden however and she has a point about each thing making the next thing easier. 

So Bobbie got a look at how the down and out live on Earth.  I liked her little quest to view the ocean.  She is tough to bounce off the building and ground and get up and go.  When she's wandering the market area, she is so much healthier looking than everyone else - seriously, Frankie Adams' hair alone is gorgeous.   She also showed that Bobbie is compassionate towards others, even the dreaded Earthers.  It helped that the actor playing Nico the drug dealer was good in their little scene together and I liked how Adams portrayed the "start at your feet and gradually look up" moment. 

She and Chrisjen played off each other well in their brief talk - and naturally Bobbie was more hostile towards one of the Earth political elite.  Bobbie has been a loyal Marine to this point but now...?  Hopefully she will decide that Chrisjen is worth trusting.

The casting department has done a great job overall.

The nerd in me appreciated Prax's talk about the cascade.   Nature will find a way, but an artificial system, not so much.  Yeah, they are drawing parallels with their own situation, not just Ganymede, but I liked the naturalistic placing of that explanation, rather than a heavy handed speech.

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12 hours ago, mjc570 said:

She's not physically imposing (as I would think she would need to be to use her powered armor, even in Mars low-gravity environment) and she just seems simple minded. 

The whole point of powered armor is that you don't have to be an Amos to use it.  The armor does the work for you.

I think Bobbie has been single-minded (as a good soldier should be) but not simple-minded.  She had her unit ready ready to fire on the Earthers but held off when she saw they were being chased.
 

3 hours ago, Nukester said:

I want to watch it again for one funny comment Amos made again.

He doesn't know how many people he's killed -- in a case like the Donnager, whoever killed the people on board probably wouldn't know the number either.  But now that I'm thinking about it, have we seen him kill anyone (my memory is not the best, so he may well have done so).  But he is certainly not a homicidal maniac!

3 hours ago, raven said:

I think Wes Chatham is doing a good job with subtle cues that Amos does feel things, maybe not everything that other people feel, but he's not a completely emotionless psycho.   Or maybe I'm biased because Wes is a handsome guy!

So Bobbie got a look at how the down and out live on Earth.  I liked her little quest to view the ocean.  She is tough to bounce off the building and ground and get up and go.  When she's wandering the market area, she is so much healthier looking than everyone else - seriously, Frankie Adams' hair alone is gorgeous.

Nah, I see Amos having empathy, too.  Not as much as the others, but it's definitely there.  Just in his chats with Prax, I could feel some warmth.

Frankie Adam is most certainly gorgeous!  I don't think she would be able to run in Earth gravity, as she did after finding the lowest point of entropy with the least amount of energy.

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Glad to see that some classic country is still around in the future!  At least on Alex's playlist.  Interesting, since he's the Martian of the group, so maybe there is more truth to Bobbie and Nicko's little crack about Martian music not being very good!

I'm starting to think every new character should be required to interact with Amos at least once.  Already enjoying the Amos/Meng pairing, and they differ from Amos' other relationships.  He really has become one of the most interesting characters on this show, and probably my favorite, or at least close to it. 

Holden certainly seems more willing to cross lines now, and Naomi clearly is not happy about this development.  It's true that past Holden would have not been OK with Amos being up that guy.

That Nico character Bobbie met really comes off like there is more to him then just an one episode character, so I wonder if there will be more to his story and we'll see him again.  

Spoiler

Maybe he will an ally to Bobbie if she escapes the Martians next week.

I enjoyed seeing Bobbie's journey to the ocean and seeing more of Earth, which apparently still seems to have classism and poverty, sadly.  And, damn, Frankie Adams looks even more gorgeous with her hair down.  But I'm really intrigued over her final conversation with Chrisjen.  Even if she pushed her away for now, I have to imagine this is only the beginning, and a very shaky alliance will form.

Speaking of which, Sadavir confessing to Chrisjen about his involvement in the virus was something I didn't see coming.  Is he being sincere?  Or does he have an angle?  I want to trust him, but I'm kind of with Cotyar/Chrisjen's spy on this one.

Unlike last week, this episode censored the F-words this time from Bobbie and Captain Martens.  Sorry, Frankie Adams and Peter Outerbridge, but only Shohreh Aghdashloo can bring the fucks to this show! 

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I'm certainly glad they spelled out for me who is behind the protomolecule. I knew it was Mao, of course, but I didn't realize the Martians were behind it.

Quote

Speaking of which, Sadavir confessing to Chrisjen about his involvement in the virus was something I didn't see coming.  Is he being sincere?  Or does he have an angle?

Yeah, I don't understand what he wants out of the whole political situation.

I really should read the book but I'm not sure I want to get involved with such a long series. I'm currently on book 6 of the Saga of the Seven Suns and am pretty much like "get it over with already."

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I love Bobbie and I think Frankie is doing a wonderful job.  Her journey to the ocean finally showed what a hellhole Earth has become.  Still, open sky and huge bodies of water are better than living on a lifeless, airless rock.  Seeing Bobbie sit by the water made me think two things-- 1) Don't touch it!  It must be disgustingly filthy!  and 2) What happened to Brooklyn???

I hope we see Nico again.  He gave us the POV of the real Earthers, unlike the powerful (like Chrisjen and Mao) who don't have to live with the depredation.

It's heartbreaking that Ganymede is dying.  Such a loss not only to the people who lived there, but the thousands (millions?) of Belters who will be affected by the destruction of its farming facilities.  Poor Prax.

5 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Unlike last week, this episode censored the F-words this time from Bobbie and Captain Martens.  Sorry, Frankie Adams and Peter Outerbridge, but only Shohreh Aghdashloo can bring the fucks to this show! 

And with such style and charm!

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8 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Glad to see that some classic country is still around in the future!  At least on Alex's playlist.  Interesting, since he's the Martian of the group, so maybe there is more truth to Bobbie and Nicko's little crack about Martian music not being very good!

I'm starting to think every new character should be required to interact with Amos at least once.  Already enjoying the Amos/Meng pairing, and they differ from Amos' other relationships.  He really has become one of the most interesting characters on this show, and probably my favorite, or at least close to it. 

Holden certainly seems more willing to cross lines now, and Naomi clearly is not happy about this development.  It's true that past Holden would have not been OK with Amos being up that guy.

That Nico character Bobbie met really comes off like there is more to him then just an one episode character, so I wonder if there will be more to his story and we'll see him again.  

  Reveal hidden contents

Maybe he will an ally to Bobbie if she escapes the Martians next week.

I enjoyed seeing Bobbie's journey to the ocean and seeing more of Earth, which apparently still seems to have classism and poverty, sadly.  And, damn, Frankie Adams looks even more gorgeous with her hair down.  But I'm really intrigued over her final conversation with Chrisjen.  Even if she pushed her away for now, I have to imagine this is only the beginning, and a very shaky alliance will form.

Speaking of which, Sadavir confessing to Chrisjen about his involvement in the virus was something I didn't see coming.  Is he being sincere?  Or does he have an angle?  I want to trust him, but I'm kind of with Cotyar/Chrisjen's spy on this one.

Unlike last week, this episode censored the F-words this time from Bobbie and Captain Martens.  Sorry, Frankie Adams and Peter Outerbridge, but only Shohreh Aghdashloo can bring the fucks to this show! 

Hey, no sly digs at Hank Williams Sr.! ;) I was raised on the man's music and thoroughly enjoyed hearing him on this show. Still, Alex listening to it is like someone jamming on Greensleeves. LOL. (that was a rather nicely phrased dig, I do have to say.)

I think he still has Venus up his sleeve. I don't remember Chrisjen saying anything about what's happening around the Eros crash site. She still has her man on board, so I think she'll hear about that and the tentative detant with Sadavir may blow up. (haven't read anything but the first book - so sheer speculation and my basic cynicism).

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Hmm, I see Errinwright as knowing he has been tossed aside by the movers and shakers and trying desperately for a way out of this that doesn't involve being hung for treason (or sent out to live on the streets with the common riff raff, or sent out into the Belt, or whatever Earth does for a serious sentence in the future).

What is implied thus far is that Mao had to have 2 simultaneous protomolecule programs going. The original contact with the protomolecule would have likely been on Phoebe Station. From there, 2 samples were sent out, one involving the Julie Mao storyline and the other off to Ganymede.

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1 hour ago, WildPlum said:

Hmm, I see Errinwright as knowing he has been tossed aside by the movers and shakers and trying desperately for a way out of this that doesn't involve being hung for treason (or sent out to live on the streets with the common riff raff, or sent out into the Belt, or whatever Earth does for a serious sentence in the future).

That is certainly plausible - and probably the most likely take on it. I may be conspiracy crazy at this point. When something isn't said specifically (the Eros action on Venus) then I tend to wonder if there's a reason it wasn't part of the discussion). Kind of like when they say someone is dead - but if you don't see a body...who knows.

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Like others have posted already, I found Bobbie’s trip to the ocean very affecting. So glad she and Chrisjen got to talk semi-privately. Chrisjen should offer Bobbie asylum on Earth, seeing how her Martian Military career seems to be over.

I love Alex, the Martian who likes classic Country Music and lasanga.

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On 3/30/2017 at 2:57 PM, WearyTraveler said:

I didn't read the books, so, perhaps that's why I don't have a problem with Bobby's physique.

I, for one, have no problem with Bobby's physique!  

On 3/30/2017 at 2:57 PM, WearyTraveler said:

We have heard many times that as good as the Martians are, Earth still has the military power to crush them and this is why the Martians have tried to avoid the war so far.

I'd have expected that Earth being that much further down the gravity well, Mars would have been at an advantage.  After all, that's how Manuel Garcia O'Kelly-Davis helped the Moon to win it's independence from Earth...

19 hours ago, jhlipton said:

But now that I'm thinking about it, have we seen him kill anyone

He helped shoot up the pirates/hijackers only last episode.  I'm pretty sure they went into the bio-mass vats...

12 hours ago, Haleth said:

It's heartbreaking that Ganymede is dying.  Such a loss not only to the people who lived there, but the thousands (millions?) of Belters who will be affected by the destruction of its farming facilities.

It looks like famine is inevitable.  And hungry people are desperate people.  But the real question is, is it deliberate?  Or was the nutrient supply switched out for useless distilled water by accident?

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16 minutes ago, Netfoot said:

It looks like famine is inevitable.

Yet another fascinating thing about this show. Even though the various moons and asteroids are far apart, the economy is so fragile and interdependent. In Season One, the destruction of the Canturbury led to water restriction on Ceres. Now, the destruction of the Ganymede farm station will mean starvation throughout the system.

One question: Has Humanity set up any colonies on the Moons of Uranus or Neptune? Or are those worlds still too far away, even with the Epstein Drive?

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I am Canadian and am beholden to the Bell Overlord for my cable. One thing I HATE is when Bell runs its little ads at the bottom of the screen. They only last a few seconds but are annoying and distracting as hell. Especially on a show as gorgeously shot as The Expanse. Has anyone else noticed this?

Edited by marinw
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3 hours ago, marinw said:

One thing I HATE is when Bell runs its little ads at the bottom of the screen.

This is entirely too common in the industry at large.  And some of those ads take up the entire bottom ⅓ of the screen!   Every now and again, it blocks off something important, like a part of a document shown in closeup.  

Shouldn't be allowed.  If we can figure out who'se responsible, we can take up a collection and hire a hit-man.

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If we feel this way, imagine how an episode's director must feel, especially if he or she has meticulously set up the shot. All part of the reason why so many shorwrunners are moving to premium cable or streaming.

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On 31.3.2017 at 6:19 AM, jhlipton said:

But now that I'm thinking about it, have we seen him kill anyone (my memory is not the best, so he may well have done so). 

Miller's friend who had the bright idea to pull a gun on Naomi in the final episode of season one.

I felt lukewarm about Bobbie until this episode but the moment uncle dickhead (yeah, I know that's not his name) practically told her that she was a captive I was rooting for her to get out, see the ocean and get to have a talk with Avarasala. I loved her whole plot, especially the the part when she arrives at the ocean. I agree the seeds have been planted to send her on a trajectory different from the straight-laced gung-ho soldier we've seen so far.

I'm still confused by Mao's endgame and what part the Martians play in it. The Martians on Phoebe station were infected by the team of the Anubis and used as lab rats. The Martians send the Donnager to investigate and it gets destroyed by stealth ships. Are the Martians still convinced those ships were UN? Then Dresden conducts the experiment on Eros - did the Martians even know about that? Next step is the experiment on Ganymede that costs the Martians dear both in lives and resources. Shouldn't they at this point start to wonder about their alliance? As for Mao: dude had no problems sacrificing his daughter but Eros hurtling towards Earth should have given him pause. Errinwright was freaked out enough by it to spill the beans but somehow I think he's also not holding all the pieces.

Ganymede dying doesn't bode well - isn't that supposed to be one of the main food resources for the belt?

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2 hours ago, MissLucas said:

I'm still confused by Mao's endgame and what part the Martians play in it.

As far as I can tell, Mao wants to understand, control and exploit the protomolecule to give humanity a quantum leap in evolution and technology (while profiting immensely from such a thing).  "The Martians" don't really play a role in Mao's game, though some Martians likely do, just like some Earthers (Errinwright) do/did.

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On 3/30/2017 at 0:44 PM, mjc570 said:

On the other hand, Chrisjen  - and her beautiful outfits - is just amazing. 

When I saw her in that blue number and the diamond neckless, I thought that she was off to a formal state dinner or something. But no, just another day at the office.

Favorite line: "My definition of crazy has contracted significantly". Chisjen has the best lines since Maggie Smith on Downton Abbey.

Edited by marinw
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On 3/31/2017 at 8:39 PM, marinw said:

Has Humanity set up any colonies on the Moons of Uranus or Neptune? Or are those worlds still too far away, even with the Epstein Drive?

They certainly have the ability to get there. I'm not a rocket scientist, but I think the Epstein Drive might give them the capability of sending interstellar probes. My memory is fuzzy, but I think Epstein hit almost 10 g acceleration and said he had weeks of fuel. (does math on back of envelop makes wild guess) That's going to make you go really fast. And given that over a hundred years have passed, it would be surprising if they hadn't sent unmanned missions to some of the nearer earth like planets. 

Which makes the discovery of the proto-molecule even more interesting. Because humanity would know that life does not exist on some planets (and moons in our solar system) that we now think may be hospitable. So they may have come to the conclusion that life on Earth is unique in the galaxy.

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On 3/31/2017 at 5:18 PM, Netfoot said:

I, for one, have no problem with Bobby's physique! 

Now that I've read the description of her I can see why people have a problem.  Casting almost all the cast as described ion the books would be daunting however (physical attributes they'd need CGI to implement wouldn't be cheap).

On 3/31/2017 at 5:39 PM, marinw said:

 Has Humanity set up any colonies on the Moons of Uranus or Neptune?

Neptune, yes, but I don't think Uranus has any.

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23 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

Now that I've read the description of her I can see why people have a problem.  Casting almost all the cast as described ion the books would be daunting however (physical attributes they'd need CGI to implement wouldn't be cheap).

I've rewatched season one last week and I've noticed quite a lot of people with a distinctive Belter physique in earlier episodes (and some of them were definitely CGI and not just particularly long-limbed folks). I think they've dropped that completely assuming that hairdo, tattoos and accent are enough clues so that they can save money here (that they then splurge on scenes with Alex having fun in the Roci).

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14 hours ago, jhlipton said:

Now that I've read the description of her I can see why people have a problem.  Casting almost all the cast as described ion the books would be daunting however (physical attributes they'd need CGI to implement wouldn't be cheap).

I'd rather have a real person saying real lines and physically interacting with real people and stuff than some goofy CGI thing tromping around with a voice coming out of it.  Maybe the Bobbi in the books was 8'3" weighing 500# or so.  Real women don't exist like that.  Books have unlimited special effects budgets because they work on the imagination.  Other media types don't. 

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21 hours ago, MissLucas said:

I've rewatched season one last week and I've noticed quite a lot of people with a distinctive Belter physique in earlier episodes (and some of them were definitely CGI and not just particularly long-limbed folks). I think they've dropped that completely assuming that hairdo, tattoos and accent are enough clues so that they can save money here (that they then splurge on scenes with Alex having fun in the Roci).

I think it was last episode that the casting limitation was really obvious - the biologist was going to join his girlfriend and go back to Mars and the Belter in charge of the lock stops him because he recognizes that the biologist is a Belter and not an Inner. Maybe in the novels (which I haven't read and don't plan to until this series is over) the difference is obvious at a glance, but in that episode it certainly is not and I wondered what the cue was, until I remembered that Belters are supposed to be physically very different from the Inners.

The language has evolved over the show, too, in the earlier episodes on Ceres they used the Belter patois/creole and a sign-language based communication method (the big square "new guy" Earth cop who gets shot in the chest is learning it from his prostitute girl friend) in addition to the broadcasts on the subway pod car which were in what sounded like Chinese and maybe some form of Arabic. Lately, though, we've gone to just English and Belter. Funny that Belter has had such linguistic drift from Earth and Martian hasn't. Of course, the first colonists/terraformers on Mars could have been a more uniform group, likely better educated and better off than the original Belters.

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16 minutes ago, WildPlum said:

I think it was last episode that the casting limitation was really obvious - the biologist was going to join his girlfriend and go back to Mars and the Belter in charge of the lock stops him because he recognizes that the biologist is a Belter and not an Inner. Maybe in the novels (which I haven't read and don't plan to until this series is over) the difference is obvious at a glance, but in that episode it certainly is not and I wondered what the cue was, until I remembered that Belters are supposed to be physically very different from the Inners.

This bothered me at first, but then I realized the biologist has a Belter haircut - which has become the visual shorthand for the limitations that come with finding actors lanky and tall enough to play the belters.

As for the language, the first season largely took place in the Belt, and we rightly heard a great deal of Belter language. As the story is currently evolving, we're now spending more time on Earth and with Martians. There are still some Belter phrases used here and there to remind us, generally at Tycho station and with Naomi and Dawes, but most of the primary characters aren't from the Belt anymore. It seems natural that there would be less of the patios at this point in the story. At least that's my take on it.

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If people don't have a problem with Naomi and Miller not being two meters tall and skinnier than a supermodel, or that Avasarala isn't tiny, then they shouldn't have a problem with Bobbie not being that height. I keep seeing people who said, 'ugh, I always pictured her as Gwendoline Christie'. Well guess what? If you did, you were picturing her wrong, because the books tell us what she looks like. And she looks like Frankie Adams but with more well defined muscles. 

I really felt for her in this episode. Being castigated for failing, which should be awful for a Martian marine. Her desire to see the ocean, to see for herself the dream of Mars, in its original form. I guess I can't really imagine what it would feel like to be a Martian on Earth, weighed down by that extra gravity, but we saw what a badass she was to take that fall and then jump straight up to start running.

But now we finally get to see just what Van der Graaf meant when he said "we had a garden, and we paved it." Overcrowded, polluted, filthy.

This is the first time Bobbie has met Earth humans, and she was clearly surprised by their... well... humanity. The bit that really brought home to me the idea of overpopulation, under-resourcing and human obsolescence was the guy saying he'd waited thirty five years for a vocational training slot. I knew from the books that Earthers were on universal basic income, but it doesn't make it as immediate as hearing that. Maybe he wasn't real, given that he disappeared, but I choose to believe he was.

Errinwright seems to be getting (sensibly) scared that he's in over his head. But I doubt he'll find a way to get himself out of this. I think he's trying to pin it all on Mao, and paint himself as the regretful scapegoat. This is just another angle for him, a way of trying to win Avasarala to his side. I think that, when she told him he'd have to answer for his part in it, he realised he'd have to get rid of her.

I was a little bored of Holden, Naomi, Amos and Prax blundering around on Ganymede. Rightfully worried that they were in for an Eros redux. But then that guy started talking about canned chicken and I said, 'oh yeah, I remember this bit.' Interesting that Holden let it happen, and that Naomi clearly realised that. Looks like everyone on the Roci is heading into stormy seas... except Alex, who was listening to some truly terrible Martian & Western music, and not playing with toy dinosaurs, which I found disappointing.

I think Amos has a pretty valid point about people who see human beings as "business", whether it's prostitution or information-broking. And Prax had a pretty good counterpoint about how increased stress on a system, whether individual, collective, biological or technological, can cause it to fail.

One more thing: I miss Drummer.

Edited by Danny Franks
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About that scene with Amos beating chicken-guy: Yes, it can be seen as another indicator for the sliding scale of Holden's ethics but it also illustrates something that has been brewing all season on the back-burner: a change in the dynamics between Naomi, Holden and Amos.

I was really surprised when Amos sided with Holden against Naomi about destroying the protogen probe early in this season. He disagreed with her before but kept it to himself and then talked to her in private like back when she did not want to accept Fred Johnson's offer but this felt different. His explanation to Alex about his world-view that pretty much divides the people around him into three categories: follow, protect and fight sounded so simple and elegant - unfortunately it has a major flaw.

In season one it was clear that Naomi was the boss, he even called her that,  of course she was also under his protection. Holden was occasionally getting damn close to ending in the 'fight' category and slowly made his way to the 'protect' folks - by now I guess he's also one to follow. And Amos' loyalty to Naomi is no longer the same as in season one. Season one Amos would have stopped beating up chicken guy the moment Naomi yelled at him to stop.

Once things between Naomi and Holden fall apart for good (i.e. once the truth about the not destroyed probe gets out) Amos will have a major problem.

Edited by MissLucas
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3 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

This bothered me at first, but then I realized the biologist has a Belter haircut - which has become the visual shorthand for the limitations that come with finding actors lanky and tall enough to play the belters.

 

Drummer doesn't have that haircut, but her hair is in a tight french braid, which sort of imitates the style. I suppose that actress didn't want to shave part of her head. Ditto for the actor playing Diogo.

At first a though Meng had part of his head shaved due to the brain surgery, but both sides of his head are shaved.

As for body types, even if the belters are on average taller and skinnier than Earthlings, there is bound to be some variation within that population, with some being taller and skinnier than others.

As the the physique of Frankie Adams, I’m fine with it and I’m enjoying her performance. I would have been annoyed if she was a skinny caucasian. Not that such women can’t be badasses, but that is not our Bobbie.

Edited by marinw
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36 minutes ago, marinw said:

Drummer doesn't have that haircut, but her hair is in a tight french braid, which sort of imitates the style. I suppose that actress didn't want to shave part of her head. Ditto for the actor playing Diogo.

Miller didn't have the haircut at first either. Drummer has the accent (and Belter style tats, iirc), and Diogo is one of the characters who uses Belter slang. So their Belter origins are alluded to w/o the haircut.

I initially thought Meng's shaved head was because of the surgery too. When I saw the other side, that's when I realized he was Belter. He doesn't seem to use the slang, but I attribute that to having worked in a scientific field with non-Belters.

I read the first book after watching season 1, so I didn't have a fixed expectation for the casting, and the cast became the people I "saw" when I read.

Edited by Clanstarling
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20 hours ago, johntfs said:

I'd rather have a real person saying real lines and physically interacting with real people and stuff than some goofy CGI thing tromping around with a voice coming out of it.  Maybe the Bobbi in the books was 8'3" weighing 500# or so. 

Not quite... But I totally agree.  And I'd much rather they spend the money showing us Alex goofing in the Roci.

11 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

I keep seeing people who said, 'ugh, I always pictured her as Gwendoline Christie'. Well guess what? If you did, you were picturing her wrong, because the books tell us what she looks like. And she looks like Frankie Adams but with more well defined muscles

I was a little bored of Holden, Naomi, Amos and Prax blundering around on Ganymede. Rightfully worried that they were in for an Eros redux. But then that guy started talking about canned chicken and I said, 'oh yeah, I remember this bit.' Interesting that Holden let it happen, and that Naomi clearly realised that. Looks like everyone on the Roci is heading into stormy seas... except Alex, who was listening to some truly terrible Martian & Western music, and not playing with toy dinosaurs, which I found disappointing.

'ugh, I always pictured her as Gwendoline Christie'  UGH just UGH!!!! The Bobby in the books doesn't even come close to that.  sounds to me like "Why can't we have more skinny white chicks?" to me.  Like there aren't enough skinny white chicks on every other show!

ETA: Alex knows better than to be a leaf in the wind.

9 hours ago, MissLucas said:

About that scene with Amos beating chicken-guy: Yes, it can be seen as another indicator for the sliding scale of Holden's ethics but it also illustrates something that has been brewing all season on the back-burner: a change in the dynamics between Naomi, Holden and Amos.

Once things between Naomi and Holden fall apart for good (i.e. once the truth about the not destroyed probe gets out) Amos will have a major problem.

Holden realizes he's becoming Miller, and realizes Naomi is trying to stop him.  Whether she's successful remains to be seen.

Edited by jhlipton

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21 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Season one Amos would have stopped beating up chicken guy the moment Naomi yelled at him to stop.

But Amos had his own rationale for beating up the "Chicken guy" and didn't need Naomi to tell him whether or not to start swinging. "Some people deserved to be punished". Amos has been seeing things from his own perspective since he saw himself in the little boy a couple of episodes ago.

Amos may rely on Naomi (or Prax) at other times,(like not choking out Miller), but he needs no help judging exploiters and pimps.

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On 3/31/2017 at 7:48 AM, AngelKitty said:

I'm currently on book 6 of the Saga of the Seven Suns and am pretty much like "get it over with already."

I read that series, and I'm in total agreement. Fatigue had set in by the fifth or sixth book, but I had too much invested in it to stop until the end. 

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11 hours ago, doram said:

I agree with everything you said here but I'd like to point out that in season 1, Miller was a 'traitor' Belter, working for the Inner government as a cop, and turning a blind eye to the way belters were being exploited. So that fugly hair of his was actually significant because he was a Belter who was uncomfortable in his own skin. in season 2 when he shaves it to the popular Belter style, it's an Important Haircut moment. 

My comments were part of a discussion on how the Belter haircut and tats were used as a visual shorthand to represent the Belters, as opposed to trying to have them look they way they're described in the books.

That being said, your point adds a lot to the discussion of Miller's Season 1 hair. It was (to me) both not Belter and Belter.  Which, imo, dovetails with what you said about him being uncomfortable in his own skin.

Edited by Clanstarling
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