S04.E19: Who Knows

[AmandaPanda]

Quote

Secrets begin spilling out in the Adams Foster household; Callie disagrees with the defense strategy proposed by Robert's attorneys; Stef works to bust Diamond's pimp; Jesus asks Gabe to keep a secret from his mothers.

[ShortyMac]

Yep. Kyle was guilty all along. If Callie would've listened to an adult or whoever telling her to knock off her detectiving for once in her life, she wouldn't be in this mess. Callie is screwed.

We're coming to a finale, so, cue the Brallie ship-baiting. All of it has me convinced that Brallie will survive. As nice as Callie's adoption is, it would have never been granted in real life.

It was good for me to see that Gabe wasn't going to keep Jesus' secret and that Mike is not a cure-all for Ana. An addict is an addict forever. 

I totally forgot about Nick still playing a role in 4B, so, I was surprised that his dad can give Anchor Beach the money. This plot just got better.

[KaveDweller]

Callie just makes everything worse for herself. All the time. And after all that are we really supposed to believe Kyle was guilty, or was he just putting up a front?

Glad to see other secrets coming out, but Mariana really didn't have a right to talk to Emma like that.  It was Emma's choice, and maybe the reason she didn't tell Mariana was because Emma knew she'd be sensitive about it. 

I also can't believe Mariana was dumb enough to Tweet about the school going private thing.

[JaggedLilPill]

I knew Mariana's twitter would bite her in the ass.

I still don't know what to think about Kyle. It would be interesting if Troy and Kyle were in on the murder together instead of him being totally innocent or Troy being totally innocent. 

If it were totally over, I doubt they would still be playing this Stef vs the other detective thing.

[KaveDweller]

14 minutes ago, JaggedLilPill said:

If it were totally over, I doubt they would still be playing this Stef vs the other detective thing.

Well, Callie's obviously not actually going to go to prison, so something has to happen to solve that. They have to get Troy to flip out on the stand and confess to lying about Callie or something.

[balmz]

what a crappy episode

 

so done with callie, rolled and sighed my eyes the whole time she was on screen

so tired of them trying to make brandon out to be a good person or brother, stop trying to make it happen, it's not going to

the jesus plot with the meds is stupid, i would expect this from old jake jesus or brandon but not from noah jesus the obsession with sex, also the child raising thing felt really random and thrown in, glad though that gabe told the truth, hope gabe gets help

mariana needs to shut her mouth

ana was a tool not admitting to the possibility that maybe it happened and if it did and she doesn't remember she is sorry

 

was expecting more monte and lena plot

[Lady Calypso]

Yes! I was hoping to be right about Kyle! And they delivered with him turning into a total psychopath. I don't even care if they probably pulled this twist out of their ass at the last minute. I'm just glad the storyline's winding down. Too bad we're getting stupid Brallie moments. Yeah, show, let's make this an actual issue. Either Brandon/Callie get together and they have to reverse the adoption, or these two finally move on for good and Callie doesn't lose her legal family status. Although maybe, for Stef/Lena's sake, it wouldn't be the worst idea. Callie keeps making problems for them. 

More Mariana/Jesus scenes. I want to keep handwaving about the memory of them as babies, since you can't recall most memories until you're about four, but it's hard. I do like that we got to hear a little bit about their history and about Ana/Gabe. I think that's what we've needed. I am glad Gabe didn't keep the secret; I knew that he wouldn't. As stupid as Jesus is about his meds, I am still interested in his story. He's still a teenage boy, so I get that sex feels like the most important thing to him right now. On another note, this was the first episode where Jesus wasn't using his cane. 

I really, really liked Brandon/Jesus' conversation. It is nice when we get sibling scenes, and it's rare to have a one on one scene with Jesus and any of his siblings who aren't Mariana.

I guess Mariana was trying to present another side to Emma, but her judgement was not easy to watch. But hey, her Twitter thing blew up in her face! Surprise, surprise. And she still can't keep her mouth shut when it's none of her business. Now Ana knows about Emma's abortion before Jesus.

The one thing I liked about this show was that it tried to stray from typical shows nowadays. Now it's not the case, especially with Detective Stef. There's about forty different cop/detective shows. I don't need to see more of that on here. Diamond's a fine character, but I'm not sure the show needs her drama right now, especially if it's going to drag Callie further down her rabbit hole. I mean, she's already at least six feet deep. She doesn't need to go down to the core of the earth here. 

I guess we might be seeing Nick in season 5. There was never closure with him, so it'll be interesting to see his return.

[omgsowicked]

I'm both annoyed and thrilled that Kyle is guilty (or he's putting up a front). Annoyed because Callie's in deep shit for nothing, and thrilled because she's getting kicked in the ass for all the stunts she's pulled. But then I land back on annoyed because I know she won't learn from this. I was so happy when Kyle said she tried to help him because it made her feel good, like she had a project, because yes, yes, YES. All she needed to do was let Stef handle it and she wouldn't be in this mess at all. And that other guy has her on tape, breaking and entering? Fantastic. I can't remember, did Aaron enter the house as well or was it just Callie? Because that would likely screw up his whole law school thing. If she doesn't dig herself in deeper by running away like the finale promo suggests, I'm sure she'll get out of this somehow. But it's still stupid that she's on trial in the first place, while Troy, the driver, isn't. Speaking of Troy, so if he didn't murder his grandmother, then what's his deal? He really was just upset because Callie was trying to help the person who killed his grandmother? Or is he still possibly involved, like he manipulated Kyle?

I didn't like them bringing Brallie back up (it's been so nice without it) but I was happy that they stuck with friends/siblings (and that it was finally believable). I liked how Brandon talked about divorcing the family and shutting Callie out, and how he wanted to have a sibling relationship with her now so everyone needed to chillax. However, I'm glad Stef actually paid attention and jumped in before things got heated again, knowing how Callie gets when she's emotional. However, I'm not getting too comfortable re: Brallie staying platonic... I sincerely hope the finale doesn't involve yet another "shit's hitting the fan, gotta hook up" moment. I have a feeling they'll undo the adoption and have them be endgame but that would be such a letdown to me.

Mariana's Twitter account finally came back into play! I didn't expect it to go down like that, though, damn. Poor Jesus. I can understand why Mariana was so sensitive about Emma's abortion but Emma didn't owe her anything (and she would have talked to Jesus if he were in better health). Plus, didn't Emma keep quiet because Mariana said something like, "oh, it would be terrible if you were pregnant"? I wish she would have brought that up. Ugh, Mariana has become so insufferable (the actress is fantastic, though). I really loved the Brandon/Jesus scene, it was wonderful to see them together (and I was saying, "hug, hug!" so I was happy that they did). It was also a bit sad, knowing that Jesus is going to be livid when he finds out that Brandon knew about Emma. I liked how they tied Jesus and Gabe's medication issues together as well, and that Gabe didn't keep Jesus's secret, so hopefully he'll be OK. Interested in seeing Gabe around the family and hopefully he'll reconsider medication. I totally understand being wary of side effects but sometimes you need that extra help.

Back to Mariana, I groaned when Jude went to her to keep a secret; he's been around long enough to know she's the biggest blabbermouth ever. But now Lena and Monte know, so they can try to figure out what's going with ABCC (why do they keep referring to it like that now?). Surprised to see Nick's dad there, wonder what his motivations are. Maybe he'll only donate money if Lena is ousted? But it's not her fault (or Mariana's) that Nick has mental health issues. I also liked them going back to Mariana and Jesus's childhood, with Ana leaving them alone in their crib. Lady Calypso, I agree that it's a stretch but my mom's first memory is of her in her crib as an infant, so I suppose it's possible! I can understand why Ana was so upset; it seems like the adults come in to support her and instead get put on the spot and told they're fuck ups... but I'm not sure if she's ashamed, especially now that she has a second chance with Isabella, or if that was an addict being an addict. Maybe both.

Oh yeah, I like that they're bringing back Girls United and I like Diamond. It's frustrating (but understandable) to watch her swing back and forth between helping Stef (and herself) and getting back into the game. Luckily Callie and Daphne found the cell phone and gave the information to Stef. I'm worried that Diamond's pimp having Callie's number will become an issue.

[izabella]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

I really, really liked Brandon/Jesus' conversation. It is nice when we get sibling scenes, and it's rare to have a one on one scene with Jesus and any of his siblings who aren't Mariana.

I liked that scene, too.  I'm liking Brandon more this season (he was way down at the bottom most of this series), and am finding less and less to like about Mariana.  She has become awful in every way to just about everyone in her life.

[Scarlett45]

I can believe Mariana and Jesus have that memory, they probably weren't BABIES, as in under a year old, but young toddlers. (People often reference young children as babies for a while) They weren't taken away from Ana until they were 4? (Adopted by stef and Lena at 5), so I believe they have memories of being neglected by Ana, left in a crib, hungry etc. I have memories from 2.5yrs old.

A part of recovery is making amends. I am sure Ana is embarassed by her behavior, she isn't an evil person who would neglect a child for shits and giggles but her addiction DID hurt her kids. Period. If she wants to be in their lives now she's got to understand they need to make peace with that. 

No Braille please no. I would like the plot with Diamond and Stef's work as a dectective if the season wasn't so full. 

I hope Mike and AJ don't fall off the face of the planet. 

[ShadowFacts]

I believe both Jesus and Mariana have memories of abandonment in their crib.  Ana has always been kind of a mope, not just struggling with addiction but sort of a sad sack, but I think her progress is admirable, and she was blindsided by the therapy session.  She may be able to face what she did with a little time.  That's the way people are, they're in constant process of recovery, up and down, it's not a straight line.

I suspected Kyle was not completely innocent a couple episodes ago when Callie told him she was at a dead end, and he was being led away, he turned back and gave her a creepy look, so it was telegraphed a bit.  But I really don't know what's up with Troy or how Callie is going to avoid prison.

I had to side-eye Stef and Lena letting Brandon and Callie drive to Folsom.  They are a big part of the family's problems with giving too much freedom and too little supervision.  Callie should not be free to go from home to LA to Folsom the way she has been, when she has a history of getting herself in stupid situations.  The moms don't know about all of what she's done, but they know some, like the hang gliding in Mexico.  Furthermore, Stef is modeling shady behavior again, telling Callie what to do with the cell phone and that she should wipe her prints.  No, Stef, no, don't involve your daughter in your police work.  I hope Stef has a moment of clarity about herself now that she's seen Callie on video.

[JaggedLilPill]

9 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I really, really liked Brandon/Jesus' conversation. It is nice when we get sibling scenes, and it's rare to have a one on one scene with Jesus and any of his siblings who aren't Mariana.

This was an awesome scene. Great work by David and Noah. Brandon works the best when he's with his family (and not, you know, making out with Callie). 

I love the sibling scenes and I wish they'd have more of them. Even Mariana and Jude, although she ended up revealing him as her source. 

[TVForever]

2 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

I believe both Jesus and Mariana have memories of abandonment in their crib.  Ana has always been kind of a mope, not just struggling with addiction but sort of a sad sack, but I think her progress is admirable, and she was blindsided by the therapy session.  She may be able to face what she did with a little time.  That's the way people are, they're in constant process of recovery, up and down, it's not a straight line.

I suspected Kyle was not completely innocent a couple episodes ago when Callie told him she was at a dead end, and he was being led away, he turned back and gave her a creepy look, so it was telegraphed a bit.  But I really don't know what's up with Troy or how Callie is going to avoid prison.

I had to side-eye Stef and Lena letting Brandon and Callie drive to Folsom.  They are a big part of the family's problems with giving too much freedom and too little supervision.  Callie should not be free to go from home to LA to Folsom the way she has been, when she has a history of getting herself in stupid situations.  The moms don't know about all of what she's done, but they know some, like the hang gliding in Mexico.  Furthermore, Stef is modeling shady behavior again, telling Callie what to do with the cell phone and that she should wipe her prints.  No, Stef, no, don't involve your daughter in your police work.  I hope Stef has a moment of clarity about herself now that she's seen Callie on video.

Wow, me too. How does any parent let two teenagers go by themselves to a maximum security prison? Heck, ANY prison? Especially when at least one of those teens has a ridiculous history of decision-making? And speaking of weird parenting decisions- why isn't Jesus in some kind of therapy to deal with all the emotional stuff that someone in his position would be experiencing?

This family- goodness, they all need counseling, because they are just spinning off the rails as a group.

[Anisky]

29 minutes ago, TVForever said:

Wow, me too. How does any parent let two teenagers go by themselves to a maximum security prison? Heck, ANY prison? Especially when at least one of those teens has a ridiculous history of decision-making? And speaking of weird parenting decisions- why isn't Jesus in some kind of therapy to deal with all the emotional stuff that someone in his position would be experiencing?

This family- goodness, they all need counseling, because they are just spinning off the rails as a group.

I know, right? Silly me, when I read the description of a show about "a lesbian couple and their blend of biological, adoptive and foster children", I assumed it would be, y'know... a positive portrayal?

Which for the first season or two, I think it was, but lately... ugh.

[taragel]

Seriously, Stef and Lena have honestly morphed into the worst parents on TV. I think their bad decisions far outweigh even Callie's at this point. Last week's whole sex thing with Jesus was beyond ridiculously indulgent. Plus, would any teenage boy seriously ask their mom to call the doctor to find out if they could have sex? He can pick up a damn phone, and then we wouldn't all have had to been subject to those horribly awkward discussions.

Brandon needs to go get a real job if he's not in college. Mariana needs to rediscover coding and STEM/STEAM classes. Jude needs to lay off the pot brownies. Callie...there's no words. If she's going to run off with Diamond to go work for her pimp next week...Ugh.

[KaveDweller]

12 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

I believe both Jesus and Mariana have memories of abandonment in their crib.  Ana has always been kind of a mope, not just struggling with addiction but sort of a sad sack, but I think her progress is admirable, and she was blindsided by the therapy session.  She may be able to face what she did with a little time.  That's the way people are, they're in constant process of recovery, up and down, it's not a straight line.

I don't know what Ana was expecting when she went to that therapy session. I agree she was blindsided about what Mariana said, but I really don't get what she thought she could do to help, if she wasn't expected to have her baggage brought up.

[Scarlett45]

13 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I don't know what Ana was expecting when she went to that therapy session. I agree she was blindsided about what Mariana said, but I really don't get what she thought she could do to help, if she wasn't expected to have her baggage brought up.

It's difficult to face the worst parts of you. I think Ana would like to just "forget" that time in her life, because of the pain it caused HER, not to mention the pain she caused her kids. 

[ShadowFacts]

Thinking again about the visit to Folsom -- isn't Callie still a minor?  She would have needed to be accompanied by a parent or guardian.  And probably be approved beforehand.  You don't just show up to visit someone. 

[Bobcatkitten]

I so don't care if Callie goes to prison. Frankly she should. She broke into someone's house and stole something. And as far as I can tell Lena and stuff don't even care. 

[tennisgurl]

Its possible that Kyle still isn't really guilty and is just putting up a front, but I'm pretty sure he is totally guilty, and its makes me darkly happy. Callie needs a big old smack of reality hard core. Even if he's a bad guy, he totally called Callie on wanting him to be a pet project for her. Not every kid in juvie is a victim of the system. Some of them really should probably be in jail, and it seems like Kyle might be one of them. Which means that Callie is screwed over a kid who murdered an old lady. Smooth move Callie.

I figured that Marianas stupid Twitter was going to bite her in the ass, but I didn't think it would be Jesus figuring out about the abortion. I did actually like Marianas plot alright, even if she wasn't at her most likable. She and Jesus still have issues with Ana, and I think that really works. I can even see why she would be sensitive about abortion to an extent, being the kid of drug addicts, the kind of people who would probably have been told they should have the babies aborted. It didn't come across as very sensitive to her friend, but I get it. I can also get why Ana would be upset about being confronted by her past failures, but it still sucks to see. It did happen, and she needs to deal with that, even if she's made her life better.

I'm really torn on the Diamond plot. On the one hand, its an good plot line and the girl playing Diamond is really good, and it takes us back to the shows roots, about the kids that have been failed by the system. On the other hand, it leads to the show being more like a procedural, which we already have a million of on TV, and it distracts more from the family. Stef and Lena need to focus on their dysfunctional kids and their messed up household. At least, within the story.

I did enjoy some of the sibling scenes, like the brief scene with Callie/Mariana, Jude/Mariana actually getting to interact, and the Jesus/Brandon scene. That was probably my favorite scene for both of them, and made me understand Jesus not taking his meds more. It was so sad hearing him say that Emma "wasn't dating him for his brains", like him being attractive is the only thing he could offer a girl like Emma. I actually really like Brandon this season, don't screw it up with Brallie nonsense!  

Edited April 7, 2017 by tennisgurl

[alexvillage]

Wow, reading this thread the image that comes to my mind is this: A wall. The writers throw a bunch of stuff (drama) hoping that it will stick. But the wall is already full of sticky stuff and no room for anything else. So, it is falling apart.

And the stuff also stinks...

[possibilities]

They do pack a lot in, and don't let things breathe enough. But they also do a lot of things that no one else even bothers to try, and some of it is very important and I give them a lot of credit for that. If you just read the comments and don't watch the show, of course what you'll get are the things people find most annoying being complained about, and a blur of plot points that don't carry a lot of emotional weight. But I can't think of any other show that has given as much depth to probably at least half a dozen different issues I care about; even if they are trying to do too much and are overdoing the drama, at least they are trying to do something I care about, and not just feeding us another bland normative bunch of total crap.

I guess I'm more than half full rather than mainly crankily half or more empty on this show. I used to be crazy bananas in love with it, so that's a decline. But I still think they do a hell of a lot more good than bad, most of the time. I've been very disappointed by some things, but it's like a restaurant that has some terrible items on the menu, and it's noisy and sometimes the service is iffy, but then they also have some terrific things you can't get anywhere else and which are amazingly good so it's worth it and you keep going back.

Edited April 9, 2017 by possibilities

[alexvillage]

2 hours ago, possibilities said:

They do pack a lot in, and don't let things breathe enough. But they also do a lot of things that no one else even bothers to try, and some of it is very important and I give them a lot of credit for that. If you just read the comments and don't watch the show, of course what you'll get are the things people find most annoying being complained about, and a blur of plot points that don't carry a lot of emotional weight. But I can't think of any other show that has given as much depth to probably at least half a dozen different issues I care about; even if they are trying to do too much and are overdoing the drama, at least they are trying to do something I care about, and not just feeding us another bland normative bunch of total crap.

I guess I'm more than half full rather than mainly crankily half or more empty on this show. I used to be crazy bananas in love with it, so that's a decline. But I still think they do a hell of a lot more good than bad, most of the time. I've been very disappointed by some things, but it's like a restaurant that has some terrible items on the menu, and it's noisy and sometimes the service is iffy, but then they also have some terrific things you can't get anywhere else and which are amazingly good so it's worth it and you keep going back.

That's true. And I admit that I am not kind to writers in any show. I liked the premise of the show, I liked the first season and part of the second season. After that it started to suck a bit, for me. What I cannot "forgive" is when I am unable to suspend disbelief and get into the stories. But that's a peeve and that's probably why I get annoyed at almost every show after a few seasons. Unless the writers are really good - and I think those are rarities - I either stop watching, or hate-watch them.

I just wish they had focused more on the foster system, expanded more on the Girls United (making it more realistic, because I think that was a bit of wishful thinking), and explored more the issues within the family regarding fostering/adopting/PTSD from years of abuse, instead of teen drama - especially the teen-with-adult-problems drama.

[Lady Calypso]

5 hours ago, alexvillage said:

I just wish they had focused more on the foster system, expanded more on the Girls United (making it more realistic, because I think that was a bit of wishful thinking), and explored more the issues within the family regarding fostering/adopting/PTSD from years of abuse, instead of teen drama - especially the teen-with-adult-problems drama.

Yeah, I feel like this as well. This show is still groundbreaking in terms of dealing with issues that not many shows deal with. For example, I recognize that having Elliot Fletcher as Aaron on the show is huge, but it's even more groundbreaking with him in a relationship with Callie. On a network show, that's unheard of. Fostering and adopting is also something not explored much, so this show does well in that sense. But lately, they've resorted to pure teenage drama, stuff that we HAVE seen on other shows and they keep packing way too much in that I think the show has lost its flow. I'm still watching it, but at this point, it's only for select storylines, rather than the overall show like it used to be. It's actually why I stopped watching the show entirely at the beginning of 3B, and only returned to the show a few episodes into season 4. 

But in all seriousness, they need to drop all the Callie storylines relating to her getting in trouble, because it's a been there-done that type of issue at this point. They can relate her issues back to her childhood, but at this point, she's getting into too MUCH drama and there's a point where it needs to stop. They're literally showing signs of replacing the Detective Callie and the Kyle case with Detective Callie and the Diamond case. She needs to be saving herself before she starts saving others. Her need to help people is becoming her vice instead of her virtue at this point. 

I want more Girls United. I want more on the foster system. I'm half interested in the Diamond story, but it's honestly not enough because it'll just go back to Callie and the fact that there are way too many stories right now to insert Diamond into the bloated mess. I'm interested in Jesus' TBI and his recovery, but I do think the abortion storyline is a little too much. Mariana's supposed to be healing herself, but she's gotten so many additional secrets that she's spreading about online that it undermines any progress that she should be making. 

It's just too much and I do want to still watch, but right now, I feel like I'll be not watching live in the summer and I'll be fast forwarding through anything Callie, some Jude/Mariana stuff, and depending on where Brandon's storyline takes him next season. 

[alexvillage]

Quote

Yeah, I feel like this as well. This show is still groundbreaking in terms of dealing with issues that not many shows deal with. For example, I recognize that having Elliot Fletcher as Aaron on the show is huge, but it's even more groundbreaking with him in a relationship with Callie.

Right. The visibility that the show gave to trans actors is something to be truly celebrated. I just think they made everyone very accepting, which is what I hope, but that it is not the reality. The writers made it look like that the prejudice and the stigma were just a little part of their lives (I don't know about Aaron's family because I haven't watched that yet) and I don't buy for a minute that Callie, having grown up in several families, would be so enlightened as to not show one ounce of doubt regarding her bias. 

And I go back to my usual complaint: the writers make Callie be the most messed up teenager, making horrible decisions, but don't really show the effects of what she's gone through. She is too kind, too understanding, too accepting, too perfect. But she is also full of entitlement that I am not sure would fit the profile of someone like her. I know, I don't make much sense.

[Scarlett45]

6 minutes ago, alexvillage said:

Right. The visibility that the show gave to trans actors is something to be truly celebrated. I just think they made everyone very accepting, which is what I hope, but that it is not the reality. The writers made it look like that the prejudice and the stigma were just a little part of their lives (I don't know about Aaron's family because I haven't watched that yet) and I don't buy for a minute that Callie, having grown up in several families, would be so enlightened as to not show one ounce of doubt regarding her bias. 

And I go back to my usual complaint: the writers make Callie be the most messed up teenager, making horrible decisions, but don't really show the effects of what she's gone through. She is too kind, too understanding, too accepting, too perfect. But she is also full of entitlement that I am not sure would fit the profile of someone like her. I know, I don't make much sense.

I agree with you. I had the thought that while Callie would have gone through a lot of changes regarding how she sees people in the LGBT community, less than two years ago she called Stef and Lena "dykes" in a hateful manner. I could see her being friends with Cole and Aaron but being so non chalant about dating a trans guy doesn't seem to fit with the character. She's not Mariana who's always grown up in a world that's accepting of LGBT ppl. 

Bolded part mine- this though I can actually see. IRL MANY insecure people are very entitled. Because life has been rough for them, they start out "behind" without many things ppl take for granted (like a safe home/loving parents), and the walk around with a chip on their shoulder thinking people who have had it easier owe it to them to "level the playing field". I think Callie has a self righteousness, and she feels because she isn't coming from a place of malice, she should be allowed to break the rules etc. 

[ShortyMac]

6 minutes ago, alexvillage said:

And I go back to my usual complaint: the writers make Callie be the most messed up teenager, making horrible decisions, but don't really show the effects of what she's gone through. She is too kind, too understanding, too accepting, too perfect. But she is also full of entitlement that I am not sure would fit the profile of someone like her. I know, I don't make much sense.

Showing the effects of her upbringing is what gave this Kyle/Troy plot momentum. Callie tries to handle things on her own and not ask for things from her guardians; she went to the police station to give her statement without telling Stef (a cop) or Lena. She told Stef, "I didn't want to bother you. I didn't think I was going to be in trouble." 

She and Daphne did call Stef when they found Diamond's cell phone at GU. 

It's one step forward, two steps back with her, which is realistic. But I also think she's not as fully fleshed out as she could be. 

[possibilities]

I think if the show had continued as it started, with showing Stef and Lena as more than just moms, and continued to show us their social circle and community of other non-straight and not all cis women, it would have made me like the show more, but I also don't have a lot of trouble believing Callie would be a quick learner and that she's easily accepting of Aaron. She has a gay brother, she had a trans friend at GU, her moms are lesbians, she's been "in the community" and also Aaron is hot. She was attracted to him from the moment they met at the cafe and she spent the day on his motorcycle, photographing him, showing him the previous foster home, etc. She's very comfortable with him and I think that him having a story that makes him a bit of an outsider is another reason she feels at ease with him. He's been there for her in a way-- participating in her shenanigans, not shying away from her story, etc. I think their relationship is very credible.

I have mixed feelings about the show not making the hazards of being trans a focus. I understand why people might want that, but I've seen that a few times elsewhere now, and I worry about the narrative always being about how sad and victimized LGBTQ people are. It used to be that the only stories you could find about lesbians were coming out and having your kids taken away from you. Then it was about being desperately lonely and being rejected by your family and drinking yourself to death. I don't want that kind of thing to happen to trans people, that the price of representation would be to only see yourself brutalized and despairing.

I think The Fosters has chosen to reference the painful stuff, but mostly model a better way. They had Aaron tell Callie not to out him because it's dangerous for most people to know he's trans. And they had his family be having a hard time with it, even though they didn't totally kick him out. And they showed her friend at GU who was forced to be in the girl's house instead of being recognized by the system as male. But to mostly see Callie and her friends and family be fine with it, I think makes it less painful to watch and we need that, too. Misery porn is as bad as inspiration porn. I think they're not pretending the world is all welcoming, but they're showing t he possibility of happiness and finding people you belong with.

The school making a big deal about non-hetero sex ed, and Connor's dad being horrible about Connor being gay, are other examples where they chose to note the horrible stuff, but also show more of the good. I'm at a point in my life where I need the happiness.

[alexvillage]

I don't think it is realistic for Callie to be so accepting because - if I remember well - she wasn't so nice when she first heard/saw that Stef and Lena were a couple. But I might be wrong. 

Yes, she saw Jude's questioning while they were in the system but she did't have any guidance about how to handle the bias. It was more the "I will protect my brother, no matter what" kind of thing. She was mad at the foster father who beat up Jude but that's one more reason why I don't buy her being so understanding, and actually lecturing people on things I am to sure she is qualified to do. Maybe if they had shown a little more of Cole telling about what it means to be trans and having trans people doing more of the talking instead of Callie. Or at least having her making mistakes and being corrected but the actual transgender person. Because it happens, not matter how much you want to be fair and how accepting you are.

And if the show is going to make Aaron and Callie a couple, I hope they don't focus on the "look, it is a cis/trans couple". 

Possibilities, you are right that the narrative about trans people would be better if it didn't focus on the negative only. It is just that the show starts something and then leaves it all hanging. For people who are not familiar with the struggles and what it means to be a transgender, things get lost. 

I think that it is just my problem with the inconsistencies with the character - one moment she is a messy teenager, impulsive and full of rage, even throwing tantrums the she doesn't get her way, the other she is this perfect person, she is fully inclusive and so mature, I forget she is a teen -the fact that it is always Callie, and that I don't think the actress has a lot of acting range. 

Does it show that I really don't like the character?

[ShadowFacts]

4 hours ago, alexvillage said:

I think that it is just my problem with the inconsistencies with the character - one moment she is a messy teenager, impulsive and full of rage, even throwing tantrums the she doesn't get her way, the other she is this perfect person, she is fully inclusive and so mature, I forget she is a teen -the fact that it is always Callie, and that I don't think the actress has a lot of acting range. 

When I used to watch soap operas, there was a thing where if a character got popular, whether it was the actor's charisma or the character was sassy or over the top in some way, all of the storylines would involve them, or other characters would recede in importance.  I see that happening with Callie, there is just too much emphasis on her.  I don't know why, really, she's an OK actor but not great and likewise the character.  Another thing that happens to most shows I've liked is the writing declines after the first couple or three seasons.  They seem to either get in a rut or try too hard to not get in a rut.  I'd say this one tries too hard inasmuch as there are always high levels of drama in each episode, for most characters, all at the same time. 

[alexvillage]

Quote

Another thing that happens to most shows I've liked is the writing declines after the first couple or three seasons.  They seem to either get in a rut or try too hard to not get in a rut.  I'd say this one tries too hard inasmuch as there are always high levels of drama in each episode, for most characters, all at the same time. 

This. I always wanted to talk to someone in the writers guild to ask why most of the shows (like 98% of them) cannot sustain after 5 seasons - Am I being too generous? I don't know if they have some contract, or if when the show is successful and at the time of renewal the good/top writers ask for more money and are dumped, or if they decide to leave and create other things. I have speculated a lot about it. So far I only like ONE show that was consistent, and it ended after 5 seasons. The decision was a creative one. The creators wanted it to end it while on top. The other show I liked lasted 3 seasons and it was even better (same creators/writers).

 

And as pretty much everyone here seems to agree, The Fosters has way too much drama. It is hard t follow and we probably even forgot about some of them. I know I cannot keep up.

[KaveDweller]

7 hours ago, alexvillage said:

This. I always wanted to talk to someone in the writers guild to ask why most of the shows (like 98% of them) cannot sustain after 5 seasons - Am I being too generous? I don't know if they have some contract, or if when the show is successful and at the time of renewal the good/top writers ask for more money and are dumped, or if they decide to leave and create other things. I have speculated a lot about it. So far I only like ONE show that was consistent, and it ended after 5 seasons. The decision was a creative one. The creators wanted it to end it while on top. The other show I liked lasted 3 seasons and it was even better (same creators/writers).

I think one reason why shows get bad after several good seasons is there is only so many stories you can write. 5 seasons is usually 100 hours of television. That is a lot of time to fill and you start to run out of ideas. Plus, a good story has a beginning, a middle, and an end. When you don't know when you are ending you have to start putting in filler.

Plus, after five seasons actors on hit shows have more power and make demands for certain storylines, or for more time off. Writers can't just write whatever they want when that happens.

[Scarlett45]

On 4/10/2017 at 0:32 AM, possibilities said:

I think if the show had continued as it started, with showing Stef and Lena as more than just moms, and continued to show us their social circle and community of other non-straight and not all cis women, it would have made me like the show more, but I also don't have a lot of trouble believing Callie would be a quick learner and that she's easily accepting of Aaron. She has a gay brother, she had a trans friend at GU, her moms are lesbians, she's been "in the community" and also Aaron is hot. She was attracted to him from the moment they met at the cafe and she spent the day on his motorcycle, photographing him, showing him the previous foster home, etc. She's very comfortable with him and I think that him having a story that makes him a bit of an outsider is another reason she feels at ease with him. He's been there for her in a way-- participating in her shenanigans, not shying away from her story, etc. I think their relationship is very credible.

I have mixed feelings about the show not making the hazards of being trans a focus. I understand why people might want that, but I've seen that a few times elsewhere now, and I worry about the narrative always being about how sad and victimized LGBTQ people are. It used to be that the only stories you could find about lesbians were coming out and having your kids taken away from you. Then it was about being desperately lonely and being rejected by your family and drinking yourself to death. I don't want that kind of thing to happen to trans people, that the price of representation would be to only see yourself brutalized and despairing.

I think The Fosters has chosen to reference the painful stuff, but mostly model a better way. They had Aaron tell Callie not to out him because it's dangerous for most people to know he's trans. And they had his family be having a hard time with it, even though they didn't totally kick him out. And they showed her friend at GU who was forced to be in the girl's house instead of being recognized by the system as male. But to mostly see Callie and her friends and family be fine with it, I think makes it less painful to watch and we need that, too. Misery porn is as bad as inspiration porn. I think they're not pretending the world is all welcoming, but they're showing t he possibility of happiness and finding people you belong with.

The school making a big deal about non-hetero sex ed, and Connor's dad being horrible about Connor being gay, are other examples where they chose to note the horrible stuff, but also show more of the good. I'm at a point in my life where I need the happiness.

I appreciate your view point very much!

I too miss the "adult side" of Stef & Lena's life. Not just around the kids about the drama Callie chooses to get into. 

[Darknight]

On Sunday, April 09, 2017 at 0:06 PM, Lady Calypso said:

Yeah, I feel like this as well. This show is still groundbreaking in terms of dealing with issues that not many shows deal with. For example, I recognize that having Elliot Fletcher as Aaron on the show is huge, but it's even more groundbreaking with him in a relationship with Callie. On a network show, that's unheard of. Fostering and adopting is also something not explored much, so this show does well in that sense. But lately, they've resorted to pure teenage drama, stuff that we HAVE seen on other shows and they keep packing way too much in that I think the show has lost its flow. I'm still watching it, but at this point, it's only for select storylines, rather than the overall show like it used to be. It's actually why I stopped watching the show entirely at the beginning of 3B, and only returned to the show a few episodes into season 4. 

But in all seriousness, they need to drop all the Callie storylines relating to her getting in trouble, because it's a been there-done that type of issue at this point. They can relate her issues back to her childhood, but at this point, she's getting into too MUCH drama and there's a point where it needs to stop. They're literally showing signs of replacing the Detective Callie and the Kyle case with Detective Callie and the Diamond case. She needs to be saving herself before she starts saving others. Her need to help people is becoming her vice instead of her virtue at this point. 

I want more Girls United. I want more on the foster system. I'm half interested in the Diamond story, but it's honestly not enough because it'll just go back to Callie and the fact that there are way too many stories right now to insert Diamond into the bloated mess. I'm interested in Jesus' TBI and his recovery, but I do think the abortion storyline is a little too much. Mariana's supposed to be healing herself, but she's gotten so many additional secrets that she's spreading about online that it undermines any progress that she should be making. 

It's just too much and I do want to still watch, but right now, I feel like I'll be not watching live in the summer and I'll be fast forwarding through anything Callie, some Jude/Mariana stuff, and depending on where Brandon's storyline takes him next season. 

I agree. I wish the show would show fister care more. The realities and in/outs of the system. Callie's behavior is linked to her previous experiences. 

[LisaM]

It has taken me this long to watch this episode because the Callie/Kyle/Troy story line - soon to be the Callie/Diamond story line - has completely turned me off of the show. Watching Callie in danger from murderers and pimps and threatened with prison is not why I signed on to watch The Fosters. Horrible decision making on the part of TPTB. I'm now FF through all of the Callie scenes. I also do not need the Diamond story line. I understand that teenage prostitution is a huge issue but I wish it wasn't shoehorned into the show. 

On a good note, I did like the Jesus scenes because the actor is knocking it out of the park with his portrayal of the frustrations of a TBI. While I do wish that he mentioned some other ramifications of the pills other than the impotence, it is believable that a 16 year old boy would focus on sex first and foremost. The Jesus scenes are saving the show at this point. Many points to Gabe for telling Lena about the pills. 

I'm tired of Mariana -- and the stupidity of her online activities make no sense for a girl who is supposed to be as smart and computer savvy as she is. 

I did like Brandon comforting Jesus -- just as he comforted Emma with the abortion. Brandon has come a long way towards redeeming himself this season. 

I am mildly curious as to the Anchor Beach private school story line -- and the presence of Nick's father in the middle of it. 

I still have the finale to watch. I really hope that the upcoming season is better than this one; the focus on Callie in danger is really eating the show in a bad way.