S06.E15: A Wondrous Place

[ElectricBoogaloo]

To be honest, I was ready to drop this show for a while and last week convinced me that there was no reason to keep watching. Then I saw that this episode would be about The Little Mermaid and Aladdin which are two of my favorite Disney movies so I stuck around because this episode should have been a homerun for me. Sadly, it was not.

The scene of the Nautilus submerging at the beginning of the episode was like Star Trek: TOS levels of bad. Nemo and Liam were the only ones who Aladdin transported out of the submarine? So he just let the rest of the crew die? Okay then. Hi, Liam! Bye, Liam.

Ugh, so now we have to listen to Jasmine feel sorry for herself and wallow in self pity about what a terrible person she is? Meanwhile Regina is trying to play therapist and get Emma to cry. What the hell, show?

And speaking of wallowing in self-pity, Emma can STFU too. She is the one who told Hook to go figure himself out and not to talk to her until then, so her response to him seemingly doing exactly what she said is to act like he abandoned her, tell a complete stranger that this must mean Hook never really loved her, and conclude that she needs to move on, all less than 24 hours after SHE gave back his ring and SHE gave him an ultimatum? I just can't with the nonsensical way these characters are written.

Gideon was all rawr, me kill Emma! Me send away Hook! And now he's like oh hey, instead of killing you so I can become the savior I just need you to kill the Black Fairy for me and then I'll go away!

[Shanna Marie]

8 hours ago, Camera One said:

That really pinpoints why the "adventure" in this episode felt so slap-dash.  The characters kept changing their methodology and pulling new solutions out of thin air every 10 minutes.  It's like those games where each person writes a few lines of a story.

It was rather random, wasn't it? That didn't work, so hey, let's try this totally unrelated thing, and keep doing it until we accidentally stumble upon the next solution. There was literally zero transition between Gidiot's plan to re-forge the sword and use it to kill Emma to take her powers and become the Savior and his apparent plan to send Hook away to use him to force Emma to help him. Never mind that Hook being in another world makes him kind of a bad hostage. He's safe from Gideon where he is. Do the Savior's tears seal up all portals, so that even if Hook found some way back, it wouldn't work? How have they opened so many other portals while Emma was crying?

I don't remember the details from the previous Aladdin stuff, but as I recall, he was blaming the downfall of Agrabah on himself for snipping off his Saviorness. But here we have Jasmine being to blame for giving Jafar the ring he could use to drop its magical protection. So was Aladdin blaming his lack of Saviorness when all along it was Jasmine giving the ring? Or is he thinking Jafar wouldn't have been there to make threats to Jasmine if he'd still been the Savior? And we're right back to the problem that with the Savior shakes, the Savior isn't much use, so snipping the Saviorness shouldn't really change much. I still don't get any of this.

[Tiger]

On 4/4/2017 at 11:15 AM, Mitch said:

What da hell was that??? This episode, followed by the let us all down finale of Walking Dead together made me want to cancel my cable...luckily Ryan Murphy served up a campy platter of old Hollywood Oscar dirt on "Feud," and saved the day...(thanks Joan and Bette..especially you Joan, you could have really shown Regina how to be an EQ!)

Speaking off, why did we waste so much time with the same old boring EQ when we had a REAL Evil Queen in Jafar? How I would have loved to see Jafar and "looks like he could go any way" Hyde team up to terrorize SB and make it fabulous ...Emma: "Tell me what's coming!" Hyde: "A total makeover of this drab little town, I think Edwardian Drawing Room meets Sultan's Palace.." We had to settle with a boring old retread when we could have had those two throwing shade and chewing the scenery for a nice change.

Once again, this dumb show makes its villains too powerful and its "heroes" too pitiful...if only the villain wasn't an idiot there is no way they couldn't win...my fave moment was the three of them being put to sleep on that conveniently placed couch and Jasmine saying..."They are heroes!" and I wanted Jafar to say,.."No dear..they are napping!" 

That good ole super poweful one of a kind Twu Wuv kiss from S1..you know, the one that broke the original big bad curse which was the whole point of the show, and why they needed a savior...sure is a dime a dozen isnt it? Why did Emma need to be a savior when anyone who loved someone could just kiss and make it all good.. So now since Jasmine saved her whole city is she a savior too..??? Why is anyone ever cursed when they just have to find someone to kiss..are there any rules to this dumb thing that has become a convenient cure all for our lazy writers? And why didn't Jasmine throw Jafarwalkingstick into the nearest fire?Why are these characters so idiotic at all times? Also, I would think that Belle and Gold kiss..why hasnt that cured his curse since it almost did before??? Why do I continue to watch this when its just Hate Watching??

The Black Fairy looks good and kinda scary looking so that's a plus.

The pantheon of (potential) villains at their disposal and they give us Rumple's idiot son and his mom?  

I'd rather watch Paul Bunyon and Aunt Jemima as the big bads.

No seriously, Jafar would have made an amazing final big bad but instead he appears in three episodes and gets turned into a cane and left in some random merchant's bin.  

[Olivia Y]

They're...making jokes about the sleeping curse now? The sleeping curse that sends you to such a terrible place that David refused to let Henry go back to in Season 2? Is this like a lite version of the sleeping curse that's basically just...sleeping? Or else I can't imagine Snow and David being so blasé about being under the curse (not to mention sending each other there). 

And then Regina just casually saying 'I need a break' from trying to break the curse? The one that she put them under (because no matter how the show tries to rationalise it, they're the same freakin' person).

I'm sure the 'Emma, Snow and Regina walks into a bar' idea looked great on paper, (I admit, the idea of Emma getting drunk with her mother and grandmother is amusing) but in the context of everything that's happened with them it just doesn't sit right, and the delivery was so stilted. Drunk Snow was something else though. 

I agree with those people who say that the casting for Ariel and Jasmine is fantastic, but the storyline is not interesting. Also, how is it that every time two people meet in this world they become life-and-death friends within like a day? Then again that's in keeping with people who fall in love within one walk in the park. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

As Once Upon A Time Releases The Kraken, Jafar Proves Himself A Typically Dumb Villain

As balance, Jasmine is too nice for her own good, so there's that. Anyone else need a hug?

[oncebluethrone]

I just remembered that in one of their interviews, A & E said Jafar was coming back in a big way. I'm not sure what they meant by big, but this wasn't it. 

[AudienceofOne]

On 02/04/2017 at 8:49 PM, Daisy said:

Killian Jones deserves better than Emma Swan and the Charmings. That is all. 

I just don't understand what this show is trying to say with this characterisation. Hook is perpetually awesome and gets zero credit from any of the other characters. That statement used to exclude Emma but suddenly she's as bad as the rest of them. I didn't think anything could be worse than last week's ridiculous murder but Emma writing off Hook seconds after he mysteriously disappears managed it.

Is this really the same character that went to hell to rescue him?

On 02/04/2017 at 9:58 PM, Curio said:

There's also the fact that the Jolly Roger is still in town. Did Emma really think he'd take off for good without the Jolly? Also, Hook was gone for 24 hours! For all Emma knew, Hook could have gone on a fishing trip with Nemo to get some advice, come back the next day, and then find his stuff gone. "Bloody hell, why are my things in the shed?" "I thought you abandoned me!" "Emma, I was only gone for a day..." "Why didn't you leave a message? I thought you didn't love me anymore!" "I was only gone for a day. You even said we shouldn't talk!"

This.

[KingOfHearts]

Sometimes Hook gets the strangest lines. "Looks like an off-season tiki bar". How would he know what a tiki bar is? 

[AudienceofOne]

11 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

There was literally zero transition between Gidiot's plan to re-forge the sword and use it to kill Emma to take her powers and become the Savior and his apparent plan to send Hook away to use him to force Emma to help him. Never mind that Hook being in another world makes him kind of a bad hostage. He's safe from Gideon where he is. Do the Savior's tears seal up all portals, so that even if Hook found some way back, it wouldn't work? How have they opened so many other portals while Emma was crying?

I have no idea. Hook could use the shell phone to communicate with her but couldn't hear her back? That means he can create a portal to her, I guess, but she can't create portals to him... oh, I don't know. Stop asking questions. 

[Camera One]

21 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Sometimes Hook gets the strangest lines. "Looks like an off-season tiki bar". How would he know what a tiki bar is? 

Maybe the Enchanted Forest had The Enchanted Tiki Room from the Disney theme park, and the Jolly Roger used to drop by for a visit?

[Shanna Marie]

21 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

Sometimes Hook gets the strangest lines. "Looks like an off-season tiki bar". How would he know what a tiki bar is? 

It was a Jane episode, wasn't it? She tends to forget that he doesn't have the memory download. I believe she's also the one who had him say something snarky about Emma being the daughter of Snow White and Prince Charming, in response to her disbelief that there really was a Wicked Witch of the West.

Which episode was it that he referred to Merida as a Scot? Was that another Jane one?

Just now, Camera One said:

Maybe the Enchanted Forest had The Enchanted Tiki Room from the Disney theme park, and the Jolly Roger used to drop by for a visit?

Or there's an island somewhere in the ocean of that world that has a tiki bar-type culture. They have a Not!Scotland, Not!Norway and Not!Generic Middle East, so why not a Not!Polynesia/Hawaii? (And now I've been hit with a wave of nostalgia because I had a record of music from The Enchanted Tiki Room when I was a child. I think maybe it was the side B to the Country Bears Jamboree album.)

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

Or there's an island somewhere in the ocean of that world that has a tiki bar-type culture. They have a Not!Scotland, Not!Norway and Not!Generic Middle East, so why not a Not!Polynesia/Hawaii? (And now I've been hit with a wave of nostalgia because I had a record of music from The Enchanted Tiki Room when I was a child. I think maybe it was the side B to the Country Bears Jamboree album.)

Pleasure Island is a place with modern ferris wheels and other rides, so that's not too far off.

[Daisy]

58 minutes ago, AudienceofOne said:

I just don't understand what this show is trying to say with this characterisation. Hook is perpetually awesome and gets zero credit from any of the other characters. That statement used to exclude Emma but suddenly she's as bad as the rest of them. I didn't think anything could be worse than last week's ridiculous murder but Emma writing off Hook seconds after he mysteriously disappears managed it.

Is this really the same character that went to hell to rescue him?

This.

I don't know. I mean for me personally - I've never bought the Emma loves Killian angle. I could see why he did, it was obvious from the word jump, but I always just felt.... at first she was using him to kinda get over Douchefire. then he was around and then 'sure why not' then while he is literally proving everything that he loves her - she basically does it when it's always good for her to do it (because you know, she could be dying or something). then - when she finally realised that she does "love" him, he dies and instead of honouring his wishes to please just let him die a frigging hero, and not do something that took him literally 200 years to get over (be dark and evil) she's like NOPE! makes him into a dark one, LIES to him about it constantly, then he does the most amazing thing and goes into hell to save EVERYONE. 

He's there for everyone.  He's always supportive, he's never doubted Emma, and Emma's always doubted him. constantly and then one time he's had a (legitimate) blip, because oh, gee, I don't know her self-righteous father tried to kill someone who he thought killed his dead beat daddy, she's like "Well, go away until you can prove you can be open to me?"

Whatever. and what breaks my heart is that he'll just continue to take it. 
(sigh). 

[Mitch]

21 hours ago, Olivia Y said:

They're...making jokes about the sleeping curse now? The sleeping curse that sends you to such a terrible place that David refused to let Henry go back to in Season 2? Is this like a lite version of the sleeping curse that's basically just...sleeping? Or else I can't imagine Snow and David being so blasé about being under the curse (not to mention sending each other there). 

 

Its kind of like the "Dark" Curse..the baddest curse of all time..that needs hundreds or years to finesse and needs all the ingridients from the most evil people in the lands, and the heart of the one you love the most...(you know, you sacrifice you soul to cast it..and it takes great hate to make it happen.) gets recast every other week and really your kitchen cupboard must have everything you need and you "love" is a relative term as, Pan was able to cast it with the heart of the one person he didn't really hate and it was no sweat off of his brow and then Snow, with her patented quivering cry face can do it with Charmings heart but with no malice and it still works the same...its kind of been watered down so much its really a more "Dusky" Curse..that is easily broken by two people who love each other, you know you don't even need a special "savior" now...simple dimple.

I know they had to really work around the Charming actors schedule so I don't blame them for trying to find a solution, but it would have been interesting to show wear and tear this was having on their psyches...(if those two bland idiots have them) and physically. They should both be more hesitant to go back to the firery room and Charming should be like, "Snow do NOT wake me up, leave me there until the curse is broken..I hate to see you there..." but now its just like hey, the go to sleep and have a nice rest...remember to wake me up for "Dancing with the Stars,"....its stupid. They should have just had the EQ comment that it was not like the original curse as that is too hard to cast..but a simple little trick designed to keep them apart.

[AudienceofOne]

12 hours ago, Daisy said:

He's there for everyone.  He's always supportive, he's never doubted Emma, and Emma's always doubted him. constantly and then one time he's had a (legitimate) blip, because oh, gee, I don't know her self-righteous father tried to kill someone who he thought killed his dead beat daddy, she's like "Well, go away until you can prove you can be open to me?"

Whatever. and what breaks my heart is that he'll just continue to take it. 
(sigh). 

I guess I didn't know I was watching a show about a tremendous hero called Killian Jones and the inadequate and undeserving people around him. Do the writers even realise that's what they're producing? I used to like Emma, intimacy issues aside, and think she was kind of awesome. Now she's as bad as the rest of these assholes. Killian should take the Jolly Roger and go to sea, stopping at different realms to save people and be amazing before heading off again because he got tired of all the assholes at home. Yes, that is basically the plot of Doctor Who but I would watch that show.

[Chaos Theory]

What the hell was that?  Maybe if I liked Hook more....?   Or if I cared about him and his manpain at all.

Now I am hoping the bad guys win.

See what you did to me show

[Shanna Marie]

13 hours ago, Daisy said:

He's always supportive, he's never doubted Emma, and Emma's always doubted him. constantly and then one time he's had a (legitimate) blip, because oh, gee, I don't know her self-righteous father tried to kill someone who he thought killed his dead beat daddy, she's like "Well, go away until you can prove you can be open to me?"

I don't know that this is entirely fair on Emma. She didn't doubt him so much as she doubted herself and the idea of love. She did go into the Underworld to save him and was willing to share her heart with him. It took both of them to pass the true love test. She was willing to sacrifice for him and he loved her enough not to let her.

That's why this current plot is so contrived. There's no way that she would say he didn't love her. It's silly for her to believe that he left her for good so soon, on so little evidence. Even Leroy saying he saw him boarding the Nautilus shouldn't have been proof. Hook was kidnapped on the Nautilus twice before (once in the flashbacks, once in the present), so unless Nemo and Little Liam were having dinners at their house offscreen and were totally friendly, she could have reason to wonder if it happened again. Even if she knows that Hook is now on good terms with his brother, then visiting his brother would be a perfectly good reason for boarding the Nautilus. Heck, for all she knows, it was his brother and Nemo's idea of a bachelor party to "kidnap" him.

Basically, we're at the hour and a half mark on one of those Hallmark Channel romance movies, where things were going great, but then she learns something about him either due to her seeing something and misunderstanding it or her hearing about something from someone who didn't have the full story. Then we hit the hour and three-quarters mark at the end of the episode when she learned she was wrong about him, and we're going into the final fifteen minutes, in which she has to try to make things right before all is really lost, and everything is set okay with a hug and a kiss.

[daxx]

They likely won't even touch on how she lost faith in him. They'll never show on screen so we'll never know if anyone ever tells him.

[Shanna Marie]

21 minutes ago, daxx said:

They likely won't even touch on how she lost faith in him. They'll never show on screen so we'll never know if anyone ever tells him.

What do you bet it won't even be mentioned in subsequent episodes? The next episode will be all about her working with Gideon and Hook working to get back, without the slightest sign that she ever said she thought he didn't love her or that she'd given up on him.

On another note, I was thinking about those shears -- would any of this be happening if Emma had used the shears when she got them? She hasn't done anything really yet that required her to be the Savior. If she hadn't been the Savior, there wouldn't have been a wish for the Evil Queen to have used, and Gideon would have had no reason to fight her. We don't know what Gideon knew about before he came over, if he knew the current status or only what he knew via Belle while in the womb, but if she'd been de-Saviored before Gideon was born, then he would have had no reason to come over, looking to kill Emma. Hook wouldn't have been sent away. Aladdin was able to help save Agrabah without being a Savior -- and it looks like all was lost there because of Jasmine being conned by Jafar, not because of Aladdin not being the Savior. So why was Emma clinging to that role?

[Curio]

35 minutes ago, daxx said:

They likely won't even touch on how she lost faith in him. They'll never show on screen so we'll never know if anyone ever tells him.

It won't be on screen because the writers don't see Emma losing faith as an issue. Hook already said out loud that Emma probably thinks he abandoned her, so he's already taking all the blame in this. Even though it's entirely rational to want to get help from a friend for a few days, apparently, just the thought of considering leaving Storybrooke for a few days is the same thing as falling out of love with someone and abandoning them. If we were to compare this to someone wanting to go to rehab for a few days because of a mental illness or addiction, are we really going to punish them for wanting to take time to fix themselves? Especially when someone tells them flat out they need to figure this out on their own? I don't understand how this show continually portrays storylines that are so thin and tone deaf.

7 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

On another note, I was thinking about those shears -- would any of this be happening if Emma had used the shears when she got them? She hasn't done anything really yet that required her to be the Savior. If she hadn't been the Savior, there wouldn't have been a wish for the Evil Queen to have used, and Gideon would have had no reason to fight her. We don't know what Gideon knew about before he came over, if he knew the current status or only what he knew via Belle while in the womb, but if she'd been de-Saviored before Gideon was born, then he would have had no reason to come over, looking to kill Emma. Hook wouldn't have been sent away. Aladdin was able to help save Agrabah without being a Savior -- and it looks like all was lost there because of Jasmine being conned by Jafar, not because of Aladdin not being the Savior. So why was Emma clinging to that role?

Also, why hasn't Gideon used the shears on Emma? Isn't that a much simpler (and less murderous) way to become the Savior?

Edited April 6, 2017 by Curio

[Rumsy4]

14 minutes ago, Curio said:

Especially when someone tells them flat out they need to figure this out on their own? 

This is the part that makes Emma's reaction ludicrous. What did she expect him to do? Go for a 1 hr session with Archie? Talk to Smee?? Does she expect him to circle around in s 3-mile radius around the house?? 

[andromeda331]

21 minutes ago, Curio said:

It won't be on screen because the writers don't see Emma losing faith as an issue. Hook already said out loud that Emma probably thinks he abandoned her, so he's already taking all the blame in this. Even though it's entirely rational to want to get help from a friend for a few days, apparently, just the thought of considering leaving Storybrooke for a few days is the same thing as falling out of love with someone and abandoning them. If we were to compare this to someone wanting to go to rehab for a few days because of a mental illness or addiction, are we really going to punish them for wanting to take time to fix themselves? Especially when someone tells them flat out they need to figure this out on their own? I don't understand how this show continually portrays storylines that are so thin and tone deaf.

Also, why hasn't Gideon used the shears on Emma? Isn't that a much simpler (and less murderous) way to become the Savior?

Good question, why hasn't it? Why hasn't Rumple or Belle suggest that instead? I know I know Rumple doesn't care what's another murder to him. But Belle your suppose to be "good" so why are you suggesting that or asking Gideon to ask Emma to help him? Do you want him to murder Emma?

[RulerofallIsurvey]

1 hour ago, Curio said:

Also, why hasn't Gideon used the shears on Emma? Isn't that a much simpler (and less murderous) way to become the Savior?

I forget how the shears are supposed to work (or - more likely they were never explained adequately.)  Would cutting away Emma's saviorness automatically make the cutter a savior?  Or would it just into The Great Savior Ether?

[Curio]

5 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I forget how the shears are supposed to work (or - more likely they were never explained adequately.)  Would cutting away Emma's saviorness automatically make the cutter a savior?  Or would it just into The Great Savior Ether?

Apparently, TS;TW can create magical rules out of thin air, so they can do whatever they want with the shears. 

[Daisy]

1 hour ago, Shanna Marie said:

I don't know that this is entirely fair on Emma. She didn't doubt him so much as she doubted herself and the idea of love. She did go into the Underworld to save him and was willing to share her heart with him. It took both of them to pass the true love test. She was willing to sacrifice for him and he loved her enough not to let her.

That's why this current plot is so contrived. There's no way that she would say he didn't love her. It's silly for her to believe that he left her for good so soon, on so little evidence. Even Leroy saying he saw him boarding the Nautilus shouldn't have been proof. Hook was kidnapped on the Nautilus twice before (once in the flashbacks, once in the present), so unless Nemo and Little Liam were having dinners at their house offscreen and were totally friendly, she could have reason to wonder if it happened again. Even if she knows that Hook is now on good terms with his brother, then visiting his brother would be a perfectly good reason for boarding the Nautilus. Heck, for all she knows, it was his brother and Nemo's idea of a bachelor party to "kidnap" him.

Basically, we're at the hour and a half mark on one of those Hallmark Channel romance movies, where things were going great, but then she learns something about him either due to her seeing something and misunderstanding it or her hearing about something from someone who didn't have the full story. Then we hit the hour and three-quarters mark at the end of the episode when she learned she was wrong about him, and we're going into the final fifteen minutes, in which she has to try to make things right before all is really lost, and everything is set okay with a hug and a kiss.

Maybe. Though I have to be fair. It's been a very very long time since I've liked Emma, and ever since they tried to make Captain Swan a thing - i never bought it at all or Emma's feelings for him. Like she was more receptive to Neal (period) than she was for Killian (from my POV anyway). 

I just feel in this instance, if this was reverse - Killian would know something was wrong. Not be all "Emma left me, she didn't believe in us." There really isn't anything the writers can show now that can really push it over to the "oh yah they really do belong together now."

At least with Rumple and Belle  the love is there. (wrapped around stupidity, and lies and whatever, but i've always maintained Belle gets off on that and she can't admit it that to herself). 

[kili]

Quote

Basically, we're at the hour and a half mark on one of those Hallmark Channel romance movies, where things were going great, but then she learns something about him either due to her seeing something and misunderstanding it or her hearing about something from someone who didn't have the full story. Then we hit the hour and three-quarters mark at the end of the episode when she learned she was wrong about him, and we're going into the final fifteen minutes, in which she has to try to make things right before all is really lost, and everything is set okay with a hug and a kiss.

That's true, but we're stuck in a "Groundhog Day" loop here. We've been at the 1.5->1.75 hour mark on the Hallmark Channel romance movie more times than I can count. Captain Swan hits some mini-milestone (a proposal, I love you, a kiss, a hug, at least willing to be in the same room with each other) and the next thing we know, one of them (usually Hook) has a secret and it causes problems and all looks lost and someone (usually Hook) almost dies and then they have a kiss and then Emma goes out and has drinks with Regina (I guess the plot twist this time is she had the drinks with Regina prior to the 1.75 mark).

I know recycling is good for the environment, but it is getting old on this show. I wish A&E could find a new problem to fling at them. It was just a few episodes ago that one of them was stuck in the Enchanted Forest with seemingly no chance of ever returning (good thing Pinocchio can carve a wardrobe in 1 day that his father took 8 months to carve). There is just no tension left in the situation. "Oh, no. Killian is in another realm. Whatever shall happen? It is impossible to travel because of some random new rule, but he'll find a magic feather or dragon sweat or one of the gazillion other ways to travel realms that Rumple never found in 200 years of trying".

Oh, BTW, the shellphone is a nice new magical device that convenient ally appeared for the first time this episode - but can't Ariel travel realms? Why didn't she offer to swim to Storybrooke and pass on a message from Hook? Then she could have been trapped when Gidiot sealed the inter-realm portals.

[jade.black]

Late to post, but I have seriously waited the ENTIRE season to see Oded Fehr again since I have been fully in love with him since The Mummy and he is still looking fine as hell, and this is all I get?! One episode and about three scenes? Screw you, OUaT. 

[Shanna Marie]

3 hours ago, kili said:

That's true, but we're stuck in a "Groundhog Day" loop here. We've been at the 1.5->1.75 hour mark on the Hallmark Channel romance movie more times than I can count. Captain Swan hits some mini-milestone (a proposal, I love you, a kiss, a hug, at least willing to be in the same room with each other) and the next thing we know, one of them (usually Hook) has a secret and it causes problems and all looks lost and someone (usually Hook) almost dies and then they have a kiss and then Emma goes out and has drinks with Regina (I guess the plot twist this time is she had the drinks with Regina prior to the 1.75 mark).

They apparently don't know anything else to do with a relationship.

The problem here is that they seem to be trying to amp up the anguish but miscalculated badly in how they did it and how it's perceived. They were going for "oh no, will they get back together?" when we're pretty sure they will, so there's no real suspense. They were trying to make us agonize over whether Emma would learn that Hook didn't abandon her, but they pushed it too far, making her look silly and fickle rather than just sad. I'm not sure why they thought it would be a good idea for her to actually declare that she thought he didn't love her when she had magical proof--in multiple ways (the true love test, Zeus sending him back to life where he belonged, which was with her)--that he did. It wouldn't have changed the plot any for her to just be sad that he was gone, to maybe worry she'd been a bit too harsh on him, to maybe worry that he had doubts about her feelings for him (since she's usually been the one holding back while he's always worn his heart on his sleeve).

And then there's this:

3 hours ago, kili said:

Oh, BTW, the shellphone is a nice new magical device that convenient ally appeared for the first time this episode - but can't Ariel travel realms? Why didn't she offer to swim to Storybrooke and pass on a message from Hook? Then she could have been trapped when Gidiot sealed the inter-realm portals.

The way Emma learned that he didn't abandon her was this show's typical contrived anticlimactic deus ex machina. Ariel just happens to have a magical device that just happens to connect with something Hook has, and Emma just happens to be carrying his chest out of the house at the moment when he tries to contact her. There's no effort on anyone's part, which makes it all fall flat. Wouldn't it have been more interesting if Hook had to search for something to allow him to contact her, or if she had any kind of faith in him that had her looking for a way to reach him and let him know it was okay to come home? Or, as I was yelling at the TV, "Can't mermaids travel between realms?"

Really, this whole plot was a terrible idea. If they wanted to repeat the old separating the couple trope, they should have found a different way to do it than this murder thing. The murder wasn't a surprise, since we predicted it from the moment they announced anything to do with Hook and David's past. It's their standard pattern of Hook episodes. Then the murder itself really couldn't be what drove the wedge between Hook and Emma. She already knew he was a murderer in the past, so it would be weird for her to change her mind about him over something that happened long before they met, and besides, she couldn't exactly go have drinks with the person who murdered her other grandfather to cheer herself up after breaking up with Hook because he murdered her grandfather. That meant she had to be mad about something else, and the way they framed it, she was basically mad at him for feeling so bad about having committed a murder that he couldn't bear to face her family or carry that memory. Then they had her and everyone else leap to the worst possible conclusion about him based on no evidence, which actually validated his fear that they wouldn't be able to forgive him. This show did its usual brilliant job of making the murderer look more sympathetic than the victims.

The whole thing has had me pondering whether he'd be better off staying where he is, and then maybe Ariel will finally realize that there's something wrong about Eric constantly ditching her to go sail the seas when she's a mermaid. So, Kariel? Hariel? Captain Fin? Captain Klepto?

[Kktjones]

19 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

This show did its usual brilliant job of making the murderer look more sympathetic than the victims.

So much this. Which makes me wonder what the heck the purpose of having him be Robert's murderer was?? It's obviously not going to drive a wedge between him and Emma or David, so why do it? Shock value? 

22 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

The whole thing has had me pondering whether he'd be better off staying where he is, and then maybe Ariel will finally realize that there's something wrong about Eric constantly ditching her to go sail the seas when she's a mermaid. So, Kariel? Hariel? Captain Fin? Captain Klepto?

Hookriel! Sign me up. I used to love CaptainSwan, but it honestly just wears me out these days. Hook & Ariel could have so much sea-faring fun together!

[Camera One]

32 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

This show did its usual brilliant job of making the murderer look more sympathetic than the victims.

It really is quite the talent.

Not to mention, it's the second episode since Gideon reforged the sword that can kill Emma.  Belle still hasn't mentioned anything?  Meanwhile, Emma and David somehow went from that conversation about Hook killing his father, to discussing digitization of old files at the police station.  Seriously, are they robots?  The Writers clearly didn't think about this from David nor Emma's POV.  Okay, then we have actor switcheroo and Snow is up.  What does she know about the whole Hook situation?  Who knows, since she's 2/3rds off-screen getting drunk while Regina and Emma talk about nothing (that whole conversation was establishing that Emma doesn't want to talk... how totally revealing... not).  In fact, we don't even know if Regina knows Hook killed David's father.  

Edited April 7, 2017 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

8 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

But Belle your suppose to be "good" so why are you suggesting that or asking Gideon to ask Emma to help him? Do you want him to murder Emma?

I think this is the part where Belle finally goes Dark for the sake of her son, and ~understands poor Rumple at last. She already confessed that she was tempted. 

7 hours ago, Daisy said:

I just feel in this instance, if this was reverse - Killian would know something was wrong. Not be all "Emma left me, she didn't believe in us." 

To produce a counterpoint, Killian doesn't have abandonment issues. His typical fear is that Emma will finally realize that his past is too dark and will break up with him. Which is what drove him to hide his knowledge of Robert's murder.

44 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

That meant she had to be mad about something else, and the way they framed it, she was basically mad at him for feeling so bad about having committed a murder that he couldn't bear to face her family or carry that memory. Then they had her and everyone else leap to the worst possible conclusion about him based on no evidence, which actually validated his fear that they wouldn't be able to forgive him. This show did its usual brilliant job of making the murderer look more sympathetic than the victims.

Yup.

Quote

The whole thing has had me pondering whether he'd be better off staying where he is, and then maybe Ariel will finally realize that there's something wrong about Eric constantly ditching her to go sail the seas when she's a mermaid. So, Kariel? Hariel? Captain Fin? Captain Klepto?

The ship is called Hookriel. Taking this to the Hook thread.

[Shanna Marie]

52 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

To produce a counterpoint, Killian doesn't have abandonment issues. His typical fear is that Emma will finally realize that his past is too dark and will break up with him. Which is what drove him to hide his knowledge of Robert's murder.

And that's where this episode made Emma look like she's been taking empathy lessons from Regina that this never occurred to her and all she could think about was her own abandonment issues. It also provides a way they could have made Emma sad without totally sabotaging her character and making her look ridiculous. Maybe once she calmed down after the initial shock, she could have realized where he was coming from, that she had handled it in the worst possible way and hurt him. Instead of "he didn't really love me" she could have been thinking "I screwed up and drove him away." There was wrong on both sides, but, weirdly enough, the show has both of them assigning the blame to him, even while showing him as being least to blame, since most of what he's being blamed for was a misunderstanding that wasn't his fault. He's saying, "I screwed up and handled it all the wrong way, and now she doesn't want me anymore, but I'm willing to fight for her, and now she's going to think I've abandoned her because I've disappeared," and she's saying, "He screwed up and handled all this the wrong way, and then he abandoned me, which means he probably didn't really love me if he gave up so easily." Meanwhile, what we saw was her giving back the ring, telling him to figure it out, him deciding to face the music with her, him being sent away against his will, and her immediately deciding that he didn't love her and had abandoned her for good. When there's a conflict between the showing and the telling, we believe the showing, which makes Emma look wrong.

[Rumsy4]

3 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

There was wrong on both sides, but, weirdly enough, the show has both of them assigning the blame to him, even while showing him as being least to blame, since most of what he's being blamed for was a misunderstanding that wasn't his fault.

Typical crap writing of this Show. There's always such a huge difference between what they tell us and what they show us on-screen (and what they "explain" on twitter). Sometimes I feel like A&E are aliens, and only have a rudimentary understanding of how human beings works. Or maybe OUAT is an alien experiment to prove how much logic fail one audience can swallow. 

[Camera One]

2 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

I feel like A&E are aliens

Don't give them any compliments.

[CCTC]

10 hours ago, Camera One said:

 In fact, we don't even know if Regina knows Hook killed David's father.  

Which begs the question - how did the Evil Queen know?  

[RulerofallIsurvey]

15 hours ago, kili said:

Oh, BTW, the shellphone is a nice new magical device that convenient ally appeared for the first time this episode - 

Didn't Hook give Belle a shellphone if she needed to contact him while he was letting her stay on the Jolly?

11 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

The whole thing has had me pondering whether he'd be better off staying where he is, and then maybe Ariel will finally realize that there's something wrong about Eric constantly ditching her to go sail the seas when she's a mermaid. So, Kariel? Hariel? Captain Fin? Captain Klepto?

I'd be all down with Hook and Ariel if it wasn't for the original movie - and, believe it or not, A&E haven't ruining Ariel's character enough (unlike Belle and Rumple) where I can ignore their supposed Disney counterparts and just consider them new characters.  

They would have a lot of fun on the high seas though.  Maybe Ariel can introduce him to one of her sisters. 

[superloislane]

9 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

Meanwhile, what we saw was her giving back the ring, telling him to figure it out, him deciding to face the music with her, him being sent away against his will, and her immediately deciding that he didn't love her and had abandoned her for good.

Well actually what we saw was him keeping something huge from her because he didn't have any faith that Emma, who has never broken up with him over anything and has forgiven him for literally everything, would want to stay with him if she knew the truth so that kind of screams 'she doesn't love me enough to want to be with me', her obviously getting annoyed at this and deciding that they shouldn't start a marriage like this, her telling him to sort himself out, him just about to leave and then changing his mind only because Snow said villains can get happy endings, him getting sent away against his will and in the sadness and anger her thinking he left her and didn't love her because that has happened in every other relationship she's ever had in her life.

[Shanna Marie]

2 hours ago, superloislane said:

Well actually what we saw was him keeping something huge from her because he didn't have any faith that Emma, who has never broken up with him over anything and has forgiven him for literally everything, would want to stay with him if she knew the truth

That was how she interpreted it. What he actually said to her was that he couldn't face her parents knowing what he did. No matter how much Emma loved and supported him, not being able to face her parents wouldn't change. Even if they forgave him, his shame would still be there. That's why he was trying to destroy his memories. Then what he later said to Snow made it also sound like he felt he didn't deserve Emma, didn't deserve a happy ending. What changed his mind about going away to try to redeem himself again some more was learning that the Evil Queen got a happy ending (and possibly seeing that Snow was actually happy for the Evil Queen getting a happy ending, when she'd been the primary victim), which gave him hope.

You know, if they were going to do the "villains don't get happy endings" plot, this would have been a better fit. Regina's story really had little to do with her having been a villain, other than her using that as an excuse for everything. When she lost Robin, it was because she'd been prevented from being an even worse villain. When she had Robin before the time travel, it was because she'd been such a villain that she'd killed his wife, and therefore he was available to date. But in this case, we're having a villain being prevented from having happiness because his own past villainy keeps coming back to haunt him, tainting his current relationships. He can't have a happy ending because no matter how much he reforms in the present, no matter how big a hero he becomes, his past is still there, continuing to have consequences.

2 hours ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Didn't Hook give Belle a shellphone if she needed to contact him while he was letting her stay on the Jolly?

Yeah, there was something like that. I think the part that was in the chest was the part Hook wore so that Belle could use the big desktop model that was on the ship (the part that Jekyll broke). So it wasn't entirely out of the blue. I was more annoyed by the coincidence of it all, that at the end of the episode Ariel just happened to have one that could communicate with Hook's -- and how do they direct that thing? Does it communicate with all other shellphones, is there a magical dial that sends to a particular one? -- and Emma just happened to be near it right at the time Hook was using it. It would have been a little less contrived if maybe he'd been trying to use it through the whole episode, with no response, because Henry had his headphones on and never heard it, and so Emma heard it finally when she was carrying the chest out. Though I still would have liked it better if she'd done something to try to find him rather than giving up so easily and only getting his message because she was moving his stuff to the shed. She was able to check on Ariel through the mirror. Did she not even try using a mirror to see where Hook was?

[superloislane]

26 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

That was how she interpreted it. What he actually said to her was that he couldn't face her parents knowing what he did.

No, when Emma asks him how he could burn the memories the first thing he says is that he was ashamed and scared of losing her, she asks him how he could possibly think that and then he talks about facing her parents, so it's not just her interpretation - he told her he was afraid of losing her because of this secret. Just like he said in his conversation with Archie in the previous episode "She's not going to want to marry me", what was implied by him looking at the ring when he found out about David's father and the reason he was getting drunk before going to tell Emma. The secret was entirely framed around him being afraid Emma wouldn't want to marry him and would leave him because of it

Edited April 7, 2017 by superloislane

[Rumsy4]

Quote

In fact, we don't even know if Regina knows Hook killed David's father.  

Pretty sure Emma told everyone off-sreen. Great loyalty there, Emma!

11 hours ago, CCTC said:

Which begs the question - how did the Evil Queen know?  

The villains are omniscient, don't you know? Even Rumple knew, apparently.

[KingOfHearts]

Hook said, "You tell me, how am I supposed to sit across the table from your mother and father, and look them in the eye, knowing what I've done?"

[Shanna Marie]

19 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

Typical crap writing of this Show. There's always such a huge difference between what they tell us and what they show us on-screen (and what they "explain" on twitter).

A big difference between the showing and telling can be a valid writing technique. If you tell us (through the other characters) that a character is useless and awful, while we see the character being awesome, it's a good way to make the audience cheer for the character. The character looks like an underdog. That's a great way to introduce new characters without getting a "Poochie" (a la the Simpsons). Tell us bad things, show us good things, and let us make up our own minds that they're awesome. But with these writers, I suspect it's more a case of even a clock that's stopped being right twice a day, especially since they often also do the exact opposite thing -- tell us how awesome a character is, show them being less than awesome -- which is how you get a Mary Sue. So there's no telling what message they really want us to get out of this situation. They're telling us Hook is awful while showing us him struggling and trying his best, but then it also looks like they want us to sympathize with Emma and feel like she's justified in the way she feels.

5 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

Hook said, "You tell me, how am I supposed to sit across the table from your mother and father, and look them in the eye, knowing what I've done?"

I think I'm going to take this to the Relationships thread, since it's not really about events in this episode.

[darkestboy]

Strong enough episode. Having Hook unite with Jasmine, Aladdin and Ariel worked well for this episode and I loved the Agrabah flashbacks too.

Jafar should be the main villain for this second half as he's far more engaging than Gideon is but the defeat he suffered here was pretty satisfying if unlikely to last though.

The girls night out with Emma, Regina and Snow was amusing enough. 

Gideon at the end though, 7/10

[Shanna Marie]

I rewatched this one last night, and it would have worked a lot better if they'd actually established any of these relationships ahead of time. Did we ever see Aladdin and Jasmine interact directly with Hook, other than being present together in group scenes? If we'd ever seen them interact before now, them using Hook as a relationship counselor would have made a lot more sense.

Meanwhile, we hardly saw anything of Aladdin and Jasmine's relationship to set up the true love. It sounds like Jasmine was blaming herself for not doing anything about her feelings before the whole situation with Jafar, but we didn't see anything much of their relationship, other than her not going with him after that initial fight. I felt like there was a lot more telling us what relationship we had than showing us, so I didn't really care and found it hard to believe that they could break a curse with their true love.

[Camera One]

They never really explained why Jasmine and Aladdin walked away from each other at the end of whatever their centric in 6A was called.  

[jhlipton]

On 4/2/2017 at 9:21 PM, Worsel said:

In my boredom while watching the episode I came up with a different plot line.  The Kraken was innocently minding its business, swimming along when the Nautilus arrives to hunt it down for its blood.  In its fear it reached out for help from Jasmine and Aladdin, who misinterpreted its tentacled cry for help and began beating it up.  It then retreated feeling sad, lonely and misunderstood. Poor Kraken!

On 4/3/2017 at 4:42 PM, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I thought he harpooned the kraken when it was attacking Aladdin and Jasmine?  Could they not have gotten the kraken's blood then?  I don't think that was explained very well. 

I don't know why they needed to kill the Kraken to get its blood.  Just harpoon one of its tentacles.  Unless they needed to get the blood of a dead Kraken.

 

On 4/3/2017 at 3:29 PM, kili said:

Jasmine could wish for anything. She'd previously wished to be taken realm hopping. Aladdin as a genie has all the power in the cosmos (and an itty-bitty living space). She's on a submarine that is sinking. It was badly damaged when it rescued her and her beloved from a kraken attack. 

What does she do? She wishes the five people in the room (possible the others) to an island? Why not just wish to fix the ship?

Maybe the mermaids can help Nemo fix his sub? I don't think they have diving bells or SCUBA tanks in the Enchanted Forest.

It's the standard "Magic (or a wish) has a price" when the PLOT!!!! needs it but not otherwise.  Otherwise known as TSTW not obeying the rules they set up.

I loved the interchange:
"Captain, we're taking on water..."
"OK, everybody, prepare to drown!"
...not.. ya know "man the lifeboats!" or even trying to get to shallow water.

 

On 4/4/2017 at 11:15 AM, Mitch said:

The Black Fairy looks good and kinda scary looking so that's a plus.

If you want "Looking good and (more than kinda) scary, you should see Murray's performace as Stahna Tarr in Defiance.

[Shanna Marie]

Something that struck me while rewatching this one: They are way too fond of magical objects that are powered by blood. "Blood magic" using your own blood to secure things is one thing, but there are actual non-evil (supposedly) items that require someone else's blood to work, which is rather creepy. There's the Author's pen that uses ink made from dark Savior's blood, and the Nautilus needs Kraken blood to realm-hop. Are there any others? And Nemo acted shocked at the thought of going after a Kraken to get more blood, but he had a supply before Gideon used it all up. How did he get that? Did the Nautilus come with it and he hadn't had to refill it? Is there a Kraken Blood station somewhere that he goes to for refills without having to actually deal with a Kraken, himself?

On 4/15/2017 at 10:40 PM, jhlipton said:

I loved the interchange:
"Captain, we're taking on water..."
"OK, everybody, prepare to drown!"
...not.. ya know "man the lifeboats!" or even trying to get to shallow water.

That, too, struck me this time. Wasn't the Nautilus damaged in the fight with the Kraken, when they took Aladdin and Jasmine on board? But then they had all that time Hook spent plotting a course to find Jafar while having to offer relationship counseling to Aladdin and Jasmine, and during all that time, there was no talk about the ship taking on water until it was so far gone they could no longer get out.

Spoiler

And we still don't know what became of Nemo and Liam. One of the main characters' only living relative (well, until baby Hope, and not counting WHook and through him Alice), and his fate remains entirely unknown. We don't even know if Hook knows or cares.

When this first aired, there was a lot of discussion about how convoluted Gideon's plan must have been, depending on what, exactly, he did. Did Aesop actually come over from the Land of Untold Stories and open a bar, and Gideon just immobilized him and took his place, or did Gideon pretend to be Aesop and open a bar just to get Emma's tears? And there was a ton of discussion about how quickly Emma gave up on Hook entirely, to the point of claiming he'd never loved her and saying she was ready to move on, less than 24 hours after he disappeared, and in spite of the fact that he left all of his most treasured possessions behind. But I didn't see a mention of the least believable thing in the whole episode: There's no way that Regina the snob would ever deign to use a coupon. Not for groceries, but especially not for food/beverage. I'm not sure she'd be willing to show her face in an establishment that offered coupons. Threaten the owner into giving her free food/beverage or act like she was doing him a favor by entering his establishment and he should be honored to serve her for free, maybe, but a coupon? Never.

Still, aside from the Storybrooke side of things, I hate this one less than a lot of other ones because Hook offering relationship counseling to Aladdin and Jasmine while trying to navigate and being very testy about it is entertaining. It's a stretch to insert Ariel into this story, but Ariel is always so much fun that I don't care, and this one had her being so very Ariel with her klepto tendencies and sea-related swearing ("son of a fish"). I would have liked a little less standing around, talking, and not yet another case of most of the characters being knocked out for the big "action" climax, but it was still a good mix of characters.

We had still more villain omniscience, with Jafar, who as far as we know has never met Ariel, knowing to impersonate Eric when Jasmine and Ariel arrive, and knowing enough about Jasmine and Eric's past interactions to know exactly what happened between them. If impersonating someone tells you everything that person knows, then why aren't magical people constantly shapeshifting into their enemies and learning all their secrets? All that running around, seancing, and research to find out what was up with Zelena, and all Regina had to do was make herself look like Zelena, and she'd have known everything about her and what she was up to.

This one, strangely enough, makes me want to rewatch Wonderland. I wish they'd released that on DVD. I don't trust streaming services to keep it around, even if you "buy" it from them.

[tennisgurl]

An episode that has Captain Hook, Captain Nemo, Ariel, Aladdin, and Jasmine should really be more exciting than this. Its like we just leaped from plot point to plot point frantically without any rhyme or reason until we got the end. So did everyone else on the Nautilus die? How were Nemo and Liam 2.0 supposed to get somewhere else? The actors were all doing their best, but its hard to enjoy an adventure that is so disjointed. That being said, its still a better episode than so many this season, as at least its making an attempt at being fun and has some good ideas, and isn't just some victim blaming ret-con villain worship fest. 

The flashbacks did at least have some shout outs to the movie for once so that was nice, Jafar is part of the long line of villains who can do everything until they just randomly cant, but at least he is played by a really talented actor who makes him both fun and menacing, and while Ariel is rather shoe horned in, I always love seeing her around. It really is a small multiverse, its like the same few people just keep bumping into each other over and over again, no matter what universe they find themselves in! 

Aesop's Tables and Aesop being around was actually fun and was a tie in to the sadly abandoned Land of Untold Stories, so of course its just some convoluted Gideon plan, we cant possibly have something actually cool and interesting thats actually taking advantage of the premise of the show around here anymore! The Vikings and the bar were kind of cool and gave the town more of a feel of a town of stories, but I guess it was a magic bar that Gideon created to trick Emma into crying in? Or was it an actual bar and he was just faking being a bartender? 

Everyone's reactions to Hook leaving was so ridiculous and dramatic, and it seems so out of character for Emma, who is supposed to love Hook. He just DIED for her, and now everyone just thinks that he must have ditched her? I think that was the part where things "got tough" and he stuck around, but whatever. No one thinks that maybe the creepy super powered villain who is out for Emma's blood might have something to do with her fiances disappearance? Or that he just went out to go on a weekend trip with Nemo and his brother to clear his head, after Emma told him to leave and gave him the ring back?! Even after Snow just had that whole talk with him about redemption and love, and Charming and Hook had their big bonding adventure? They just automatically go back to "stupid slimy pirate" again? Christ, what does this guy have to do to have people, even the woman he loves, give him the benefit of the freaking doubt?!

Rumple must have heard that he could have just hitched a ride on the Nautilus to get to the LWOM to find Nealfire and just banged his head against the wall for twenty minutes straight.  

Edited August 18, 2019 by tennisgurl

[PixiePaws1]

23 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Rumple must have heard that he could have just hitched a ride on the Nautilus to get to the LWOM to find Nealfire and just banged his head against the wall for twenty minutes straight.  

@tennisgurlThank you for the longest, loudest belly laugh I've had in ages.....

[Shanna Marie]

On 8/17/2019 at 8:15 PM, tennisgurl said:

Rumple must have heard that he could have just hitched a ride on the Nautilus to get to the LWOM to find Nealfire and just banged his head against the wall for twenty minutes straight.  

There were so many ways Rumple could have made it to Nealfire that he didn't take. I think the main reason he didn't take them was that he wanted to find a way that he could keep his powers in that world, and he needed the curse to be able to bring magic over. But my headcanon real reason that he didn't take any of the easier methods and took so long that his son would logically have been dead by then was that he was actually procrastinating. He felt he should be looking for his son, but he was afraid of facing him, so he did a lot of work toward finding a way without actually going, like when you say you're getting to work, but you then spend a few hours cleaning your desk, organizing your files, and sharpening all your pencils. Since the Dark Curse was nearly impossible, he could spend a century or so laying the groundwork, telling himself that whole time he was working on it and doing everything he could, but without the risk of actually having to do it.

On 8/17/2019 at 8:15 PM, tennisgurl said:

They just automatically go back to "stupid slimy pirate" again? Christ, what does this guy have to do to have people, even the woman he loves, give him the benefit of the freaking doubt?!

That's one of my "bad romantic comedy" pet peeves, where there's a big misunderstanding in which one member of a couple leaps to the absolutely worst wrong conclusion about the other member of the couple, then when she finds out the truth, all is forgiven, but it's never mentioned that he might have cause to wonder about her feelings if she was so eager to believe the worst about him and didn't trust him. The whole fight was about her being upset because she didn't think he trusted her, and she made a big fuss about that, but then she immediately decides that he never loved her and he bailed at the first sign of trouble (after dying for her), jumping to the worst possible conclusion about his disappearance and never for a second considering that something else might be going on, even though he left all of his prized possessions behind. She even sits and holds Liam's ring, and that doesn't make her question it. I would say that there's a far bigger lack of trust in immediately assuming he left deliberately for good and never loved her, in spite of a great deal of evidence and history, than there is in being afraid of telling her that he murdered her grandfather. She was mad that he had so little faith in them that he was afraid of their reaction, but then their immediate reaction to his disappearance was to go into "filthy pirate, good riddance" mode, so maybe he wasn't wrong to worry about how they'd take it.