Heartaches, Bromances, True Love and Team Arrow: the Relationships Thread

[tv echo]

I can see that maybe.  I guess it'll be more accurate to say that I don't see any sexual chemistry between Felicity and Barry - not like in a lot of moments between Felicity & Oliver when they're staring at each other.  But then I don't see Barry as having that kind of chemistry with anyone.

Edited October 3, 2015 by tv echo

[tarotx]

Sexual and Barry? How cute. Love him to pieces but GG needs to age Barry up 10 years for that ;) Though I do adore the 15 year-old-esque Barry.

Edited October 3, 2015 by tarotx

[Chaser]

My favorite comparison between Barry and Oliver: Barry is the guy you want to take to ice cream and Oliver is the guy you want to lick ice cream off of.

[Guest]

When the subject of romantic chemistry comes up on The Flash, I always think about Barry having the kind of sex scene that Oliver had with Felicity and can you picture it? Because I cannot. 

 

He has an easy chemistry with pretty much everyone, I agree, but no romantic chemistry at all.

[kismet]

Personally, I think EBR and GG have good friend chemistry but not romantic chemistry - but that's just my opinion.

I agree with you. I don't see any romantic chemistry between them. I get what people are saying that they have a high school rom-com chemistry - but as someone who grew up on Dawson's Creek & even Grease- I'm not even sure they have a modern HS chemistry. Or at least not the kind that makes sparks and wants you to be them. It's very young, perhaps an animated Disney cartoon chemistry. I could imagine them having a very pleasant and boring life somewhere off camera.

 

They have a sweet chemistry. But romantic chemistry to me has to include some type of sexual chemistry - and GG/EBR do not have that. Even their one kiss was so chaste and flat. Whereas, SA/EBR's first kiss was also chaste - but you could feel the heat.

 

  @10eleven12 I love the ice cream comparison!

[tarotx]

I think cute and adorable being with someone one you enjoy being with could never be boring. And the Kiss wasn't a romantic kiss. It was a if only we didn't love other people kiss. 

 

[wingster55]

I think he was able to generate it when it was called for..first time Iris talked to him as the Flash for example. Or the kiss with her and the scene with Linda.

[dtissagirl]

I enjoy the running gag of asking when is Barry gonna hit puberty that I keep seeing on Twitter, because: yes.

 

And hey, I totally buy it that Barry is in love with Iris, and that he was interested in Felicity in an "if only" way. But at the same time, it just feels like watching a 12 year old in love, and... that's not the kind of romance story I'm interested in watching.

[tarotx]

I think Barry has the exact same romantic vibe with Iris that he has with Felicity. They are cute. And with Linda it seemed to be coming from her imo. Though I guess we are going OT now. At the end of the day at least Barry doesn't have anti chemistry with anyone. So far...

I think he was able to generate it when it was called for..first time Iris talked to him as the Flash for example. Or the kiss with her and the scene with Linda.

[Chaser]

Barry needs to get together with Iris in a crossover episode so Oliver will be there to give him the sex talk.

[kismet]

I think cute and adorable being with someone one you enjoy being with could never be boring. And the Kiss wasn't a romantic kiss. It was a if only we didn't love other people kiss. 

I didn't mean boring in a bad way :) Just in a way that doesn't generate enough romantic energy to make a tv show about. Or at least one I would be interested in. Cute & adorable together are good goals for couples to have both IRL & on TV. But I need more than cute & adorable to want to watch a relationship on TV.

 

A kiss is a kiss, I just meant to compare them for chemistry purposes. SA/EBR have a romantic chemistry & sparks. GG/EBR have a sweet chemistry, but seem better off as friends. Even as an "if only" kiss is was pretty bland. I have seen a few "if only kisses" onscreen throughout the years, and they generate heat. You really wonder "what if" and not just "if only". The kiss on the train, didn't make me wonder anything - I saw how things would have played out if only. GG did seem to generate heat & sparks with CP in their first kiss. So it could be how the kisses were written. But at the end of the day, I just don't see sparks between GG & EBR that promise epic romance.

[Guest]

That Barry/Felicity kiss was just so blah. She had a better kiss with Ray and OMG you don't know how much it pains me to say that. Haha.

[tarotx]

I don't agree that tv Chem needs a certain energy. If actor Chem is there it can work. I get that you don't see Chem but I adore Barry and Felicity scenes togther. They are fun and adorable togther. And I have the same opinion about Barry and Iris.

[Guest]

Oh I like Barry and Felicity a lot. I enjoy their scenes too. I just don't see them as romantic. 

[kismet]

Same here. I love Barry and Felicity scenes. I love them together. I think they have amazing chemistry & energy as friends. They're just not romantic together, and that's what I thought we were comparing earlier.

 

I actually think that EBR had better chemistry with GG, than she did with BR. I never actually understood BR/EBR's so called chemistry. Even as buddies, friends or colleagues, I just didn't see it. 

Edited October 3, 2015 by kismet

[dtissagirl]

Yeah. Pre-S3 I really thought EBR would have chemistry with everyone and everything and a block of cement. But then came Brandon Routh and broke my illusions.

[tarotx]

Oh I think Barry&Felicity have great Chemistry. And couple Chemistry is chemistry. Cute and romantic. Romantic Chem doesn't have be sexual imo. GG doesn't generate Sexual sparks imo and I don't need it for a couple to be believable.

If someone is a sex stud then yes I want sexual sparks because it fit's the vibe of the character.

I actually think Oliver and Fecility are cute together as well. Their best moments are them being cute and adorable. The wonderfulness of their sex scene was that it had that cute adorable factor and you could see their feelings for each other. The actors made sure Felicity and Oliver were alive and present and didn't just have sex but make love. It felt real.

Imo SA has more sexual chemistry with other actors but characters' feelings weren't portrayed as love.

So we're probably best just disagreeing :)

[Chaser]

If not for Olicity I would ship Barry and Felicity. Their moments were the highlights of her crossovers for me. They just wouldn't be what I consider a hot pairing. The part of the Olicity sex scene when he ran his hands all over her back. Those big hands and those big muscles on the arms and the muscles on the back and the board shoulders and picking her up...I'm sorry I got distracted.

 

I just can't see Barry and Felicity pulling that off.

 

Felicity and Ray. To take a que from Oliver, they would work better non romantic and related.

[TanyaKay]

I just find it extremely funny that Oliver's go to reaction to any eligible male in Felicity's radar is asking if they are related. He can be a petulant child and it is a non stop source of LOLs.

[kismet]

Felicity and Ray. To take a que from Oliver, they would work better non romantic and related.

If it wasn't completely inappropriate and far too soapy - I really wish they would have made RP & FS secretly related as opposed to having them sleep together. That being said once they slept together that option went off the table for me. They tried to pull off the secret sibling accidental incest on the old soap Passions which was campy and out there, but even there it gave me & others the hebegeebies.

 

That was a good joke on OQ part, but it still had too much of a eeek & cringe moment to it. So secret relative was another missed opportunity for me to bring RP onto the show in a more digestible way.

[statsgirl]

I think EBR and BR did okay in the scenes when they could just play their characters (e.g. Felicity asking Ray for the keys to the helicopter).  it's when the writing trief to push them as a romantic pair that it all went wrong.

 

Hopefully the EPs have learned from their mistakes and that's why Echo Kellum's character

is her gay best friend.

  A much better screwball comedy trope for this show IMO.

[Morrigan2575]

I think cute and adorable being with someone one you enjoy being with could never be boring. And the Kiss wasn't a romantic kiss. It was a if only we didn't love other people kiss.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Irk0kKbASX0

To be honest I fully loved that scene. I thought it was cute/sweet and romantic in a bittersweet sense. I never had a problem with Barry/Felicity chemistry and could have supported them as a couple if the show didn't make it blatantly obvious (as far back as 209) that Barry was pining for Iris and Felicity had a weird thing going on with Oliver.

This scene still makes me smile.

[SmallScreenDiva]

I adore Barry and Felicity. I love the way they transitioned from mutual crushing to maybe BF/GF to solid friends. It feels real. When Barry shares his problems with Felicity, it feels natural. And I love that they have their thing :)

 

"Bye, Barry."

"Bye, Felicity."

[Guest]

I think EBR and BR did okay in the scenes when they could just play their characters (e.g. Felicity asking Ray for the keys to the helicopter).  it's when the writing trief to push them as a romantic pair that it all went wrong.

 

Hopefully the EPs have learned from their mistakes and that's why Echo Kellum's character

is her gay best friend.

  A much better screwball comedy trope for this show IMO.

 

Agreed. Forcing the romance just didn't work. I was also expecting this amazing incredible chemistry after the way MG kept going on and on about it before s3 started and when it came to it, I just didn't get anything from the pair of them. They did try though. But it just came across as contrived to me, especially when Felicity did a 180 on how she felt about Ray and it felt like it came out of nowhere (I'm talking about her speech to the investors in 307). I was like 'uh, when did that happen?!'

[statsgirl]

The speech to the investor and how Felicity stood up for Ray and attacked Oliver in Suicidal Tendences (and to think how I was looking forward to them both!) were two very PodFelicity times.  I don't think I liked her either time. 

[Delphi]

My favorite comparison between Barry and Oliver: Barry is the guy you want to take to ice cream and Oliver is the guy you want to lick ice cream off of.

Eh, I'd be willing to lock ice cream off of Barry and I'm very lactose intolerant. But that's just me.

[KenyaJ]

If not for Olicity I would ship Barry and Felicity. 

 

Me too. I adored them together in Barry's two episodes of Arrow. I totally shipped her and Oliver, but if the writers had chosen a longer Barry arc, I would've been so cool with it. I loved their nerdy attraction to each other, and I think I secretly loved jealous Oliver even more. At any rate, like SmallScreenDiva, I think their transition to a close friendship was so believable and I love the way they can confide in each other. There are a lot of things the writers have gotten wrong over the seasons, but the Felicity/Barry relationship is one thing they got 100% right, IMO.

[kismet]

Agreed. Forcing the romance just didn't work. I was also expecting this amazing incredible chemistry after the way MG kept going on and on about it before s3 started and when it came to it, I just didn't get anything from the pair of them. They did try though. But it just came across as contrived to me, especially when Felicity did a 180 on how she felt about Ray and it felt like it came out of nowhere (I'm talking about her speech to the investors in 307). I was like 'uh, when did that happen?!'

Oh you mean that speech that was really all about Oliver, yet somehow we are supposed to believe it is about Ray because he gave her a pretty necklace & a couture gown? That speech was so annoying. They were trying to jam Ray down our throats which might have worked if you know that guy was able to be his own person & not just a random stalker turned OQ-lite impostor.

 

Me too. I adored them together in Barry's two episodes of Arrow. I totally shipped her and Oliver, but if the writers had chosen a longer Barry arc, I would've been so cool with it. I loved their nerdy attraction to each other, and I think I secretly loved jealous Oliver even more. At any rate, like SmallScreenDiva, I think their transition to a close friendship was so believable and I love the way they can confide in each other. There are a lot of things the writers have gotten wrong over the seasons, but the Felicity/Barry relationship is one thing they got 100% right, IMO.

I adored every scene with Barry & FS. But they just didn't give me enough to ship. It also didn't help that I was already shipping OQ/FS so it was gonna take a lot for me to abandon that ship for an adorable puppy love/crush scenario that was being tossed up by the writers. But I do agree with you that the writers have gotten their transition from crushes to close friends really well. The writers have stumbled through many of their relationship writings on both shows - but you're right F/B is the one of the only they got 100% right. And I totally agree with you that I loved Jealous Oliver even more - its not even a secret :) And the whole foreshadowing of dreaming of you while he was in a coma. That's just beautiful symmetry.

[BkWurm1]

Part of the fun has been the crossovers between shows. Gustin’s forensics specialist Barry Allen was introduced in “Arrow’s” Season 2. He connected there with fellow science prodigy Felicity Smoak, played by Emily Bett Rickards. Their chemistry together was so good, Rickards was asked to tone it down as we learn in the bonus features. After all, her character and Oliver Queen are the romantic pair in “Arrow.” Sheesh.

 

If I'm understanding this right, we've been missing the big headline, proof that they thought of Oliver and Felicity as the romantic pair in Arrow in season 2 before the Barry episodes ever happened.  TPTB keep talking about when they finally decided to go Olicity and seemed to be saying it didn't happen until at least halfway through the season but what they were throwing on the screen as of five minuets into episode 2-1, it seemed clear to me that they were onboard the ship.  This quote seems to say that maybe way before they cast Barry or even wrote the episodes (since didn't they say they wrote the episode around EBR and GG chemistry) that they had already picked their pony. "After all, her character and Oliver Queen are the romantic pair in Arrow."   

 

 

 

Insert satisfied grin.

 

 

 

I adore Barry and Felicity. I love the way they transitioned from mutual crushing to maybe BF/GF to solid friends. It feels real. When Barry shares his problems with Felicity, it feels natural. And I love that they have their thing :)

 

"Bye, Barry."

"Bye, Felicity."

This so much.  Felicity's second solo crossover episode to Flash had some bad Ray related moments but it had some really wonderful Felicity and Barry moments.  I don't know what it is about them that makes me totally believe that they are best buds that trust each other with no reservations.  There was a wonderfully genuine quality between them.  There were some complaints that it wasn't fair that Barry would trust Felicity over Cisco and Caitlin but I watched The Flash regularly and it felt right that he needed to turn to someone outside of his inner circle.  He trusted his people with his life and cared about them but they always to me felt like work friends still. 

 

In an odd way, Barry and Felicity seemed more naturally at ease with each other than anyone else. (On Flash)  Probably because their characters had no hidden agendas anymore.  They knew each other's biggest secrets, trusted each other and didn't want or NEED anything from the other except friendship. 

 

But I am glad they didn't go the romantic route 'cause I think I would be squeamish thinking about them doing anything more than chaste kisses. 

Edited October 4, 2015 by BkWurm1

[Guest]

Oh you mean that speech that was really all about Oliver, yet somehow we are supposed to believe it is about Ray because he gave her a pretty necklace & a couture gown? That speech was so annoying. They were trying to jam Ray down our throats which might have worked if you know that guy was able to be his own person & not just a random stalker turned OQ-lite impostor.

 

Yep, that speech. But it didn't really come across in the episode that is was subconsciously about Oliver. It was only afterwards once I'd thought about it and even then I wonder if that's just us guessing that and trying to make the whole thing better/make sense. 

 

Ugh, the whole R/F thing was terrible in that episode, from Ray doing the salmon ladder (REALLY?!) to bribing her with couture. That was not the Felicity I know and love. Sorry.

[kismet]

Yep, that speech. But it didn't really come across in the episode that is was subconsciously about Oliver. It was only afterwards once I'd thought about it and even then I wonder if that's just us guessing that and trying to make the whole thing better/make sense. 

 

Ugh, the whole R/F thing was terrible in that episode, from Ray doing the salmon ladder (REALLY?!) to bribing her with couture. That was not the Felicity I know and love. Sorry.

The funny thing, I have no idea if subconsciously FS in character ever realized the speech was ever about OQ. But for me in the audience, it was obvious that the writers (or at least the editors) intended it to be about OQ, since they kept cutting to his image. But like most of everything about the R/F relationship, every major moment was really about O/F.

 

That whole R/F in that episode was horrible if they intended for that relationship to work. Perhaps if R/F was supposed to fail early on, it might have worked because FS at the end of it would have woken up and just chosen herself. But she just entered pod-FS mode and it continued on.

 

I realize they were trying to multi-task RP's character by having him be both a LI & a future hero - but it did no justice to his character because we didn't really get to know him until the last 3 eps he was in. Before that it felt like he was whatever the script needed to push their angst agenda.

[Morrigan2575]

If I'm understanding this right, we've been missing the big headline, proof that they thought of Oliver and Felicity as the romantic pair in Arrow in season 2 before the Barry episodes ever happened. TPTB keep talking about when they finally decided to go Olicity and seemed to be saying it didn't happen until at least halfway through the season but what they were throwing on the screen as of five minuets into episode 2-1, it seemed clear to me that they were onboard the ship.

I was confused by that quote as well. I wasn't sure if they were still talking about Arrow S2 or if they were talking about her appearance on Flash 104. I'm also curious as to who said it because I want to say I heard MG say something similar regarding Felicity/Ray in S3.

[quarks]

MG said something similar regarding Felicity/Ray on the commentary to "The Calm" on the season 3 DVDs, but to be honest, to me that seemed more like trying to tell fans, "They DID have chemistry! They DID! The reason you didn't see it was because we had to tell them to tone it down because she was going out on a date with Oliver!"  Which, ok, MG, fair enough, but at least some fans were talking about the chemistry later in the season.

 

But this may just be me reading too much into the commentary.

[tarotx]

BR looks evil and you just can't get into a character that you think is or will be stabbing the other characters in the back. And GG just Plays Barry Young. And I think EBR plays Felicity younger when she's with Barry than when she's with other characters. But she is still Felicity unlike with Ray when she's just another character. 

[BkWurm1]

BR looks evil and you just can't get into a character that you think is or will be stabbing the other characters in the back. And GG just Plays Barry Young. And I think EBR plays Felicity younger when she's with Barry than when she's with other characters. But she is still Felicity unlike with Ray when she's just another character.

I completely agree with you about EBR playing younger when she's with Barry which is a big reason why I was glad they cut short any kind of romance rather than having (as some have suggested) Barry be a semi regular in season two and having them full on dating as a ship stall.

I think the flirting and crushing on him worked but if they'd dwelt on their dynamic as a couple and wrote to it (as they tell us the writers will do) I wonder if it would have changed Felicity making it hard imagining Felicity as grown up enough for Oliver.

I never had that problem before Barry and didn't for the most part while he was around, but there was this moment when Felicity was in her too pink dress and has the prom hair and Oliver comes to her and fr a moment you think he wants to be with her (cause you know he did) but instead he is bringing her a date to dance with and in walks 12 year old Barry and I was retroactively weirded out for that earlier moment where I thought Oliver might want to dance with Felicity.

In Felicity's 1st Flash Crossover the younger dynamic works because this was Felicity desperately trying to put Her feelings for Oliver in the past and going for that totally different kind of guy and the light, young vibe stresses the contrast. When we see her talk about quiet dreams you keep to yourself though, Felicity is once more back to her more grown up, wise past her years self.

Edited October 4, 2015 by BkWurm1

[kismet]

^^^Felt very similar to you, @BkWurm1^^^. It almost felt like they tried to overcompensate and swung the pendulum the other way. They went too mature/old with RP/BP. All the sudden everything just felt old and stuffy. It probably doesn't help that BR in a stiff suit looks and acts older than his age (which is already 12yrs older than EBR). The writers definitely had a few Goldilocks moments with FS's character trying to find her the right LI while they stalled O/F.

[kismet]

So after my post, I decided out of curiosity to see the ages of the main cast. Interestingly, WH & EBR are the same age, 24 but one plays younger & the other older. GG is 25, which I think is his characters age, despite the fact he is cursed to look younger than what he is. It really is an affliction to look younger than your age (I suffer from it as well). SA is 34 but plays 4 yrs younger. KC is 28 (will be 29 in Nov), so she is sorta plays on age - but too me seems older than what she is. IRL, I thought she might be SA's age. I was surprised that she is 5 yrs younger. CL is actually also 28 (will be 29 in Dec) but plays younger. BR is 35 (will be 36 in Oct), but honestly I could never figure out RP's exact age except older than OQ. DR is 43 (will be 44 in Nov), but plays 6y younger - which makes sense as to why he graces the screen with such wisdom. Also why I am glad they never tried to make F/Dig romantic, because that might have felt a little awkward age wise. I also think it would have messed up the OTA chemistry, but I digress.

 

It's just interesting to me how all the real life ages can feel so different onscreen. I wonder sometimes if that is why certain relationships work on screen and others don't work as well. Or why the vibe for some dynamics works where others do not. Does SA as OQ feel too fatherly over WH as TQ because IRL he is 10yrs older than the actress, but on the show SA is 14y older than TQ? Then again he is also 10y older than EBR and that same age difference doesn't seem to impact their relationship. Or is it perhaps because his character is 4yrs younger than himself & spent 5 years becoming emotionally stunted, that in his acting the math somehow works in O/F relationship's favor. IDK, just too much analyzing factoids with impressions.

[BkWurm1]

^^^Felt very similar to you, @BkWurm1^^^. It almost felt like they tried to overcompensate and swung the pendulum the other way. They went too mature/old with RP/BP. All the sudden everything just felt old and stuffy. It probably doesn't help that BR in a stiff suit looks and acts older than his age (which is already 12yrs older than EBR). The writers definitely had a few Goldilocks moments with FS's character trying to find her the right LI while they stalled O/F.

Like when she went to that dinner with him to woo a seller. Or was wearing Moira Queen hair in her second Flash crossover.

If you line up all her appearances on Flash you get too young, just right, and too old. Of course, I'm biased about the just rightness of the Flarrow crossover. :D

[BkWurm1]

One reason Felicity and Oliver work IMO despite the real age difference of the actors is because Felicity is written as more emotionally mature than Oliver, since he was stunted during the Ollie years and traumatized after. (I think they are pretty equal now in emotional maturity or that's the impression I got from the season four clips) Thea though is written IMO as emotionally young and reactionary. Even with Speedy being kickass, she still feels so young to me.

[kismet]

One reason Felicity and Oliver work IMO despite the real age difference of the actors is because Felicity is written as more emotionally mature than Oliver, since he was stunted during the Ollie years and traumatized after. (I think they are pretty equal now in emotional maturity or that's the impression I got from the season four clips) Thea though is written IMO as emotionally young and reactionary. Even with Speedy being kickass, she still feels so young to me.

Ditto.

[bijoux]

Ray's

34 per preview - http://images-cdn.moviepilot.com/images/c_fill,h_894,w_1760/t_mp_quality/t9of1hs2zwnhidphm81k/the-arrow-season-4-trailer-is-finally-here-and-it-answers-some-important-questions-611742.jpg

Has Dig's age been specifically stated on the show?

Edited October 4, 2015 by bijoux

[tv echo]

If you believe this S1-S2 character card, then Diggle is now 36 or 37...

The CW's S2 Character Bio Card for Diggle...

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.307038822767490.1073741835.104137579724283&type=3

[kismet]

Ray's

34 per preview - http://images-cdn.moviepilot.com/images/c_fill,h_894,w_1760/t_mp_quality/t9of1hs2zwnhidphm81k/the-arrow-season-4-trailer-is-finally-here-and-it-answers-some-important-questions-611742.jpg

Has Dig's age been specifically stated on the show?

No I don't believe it has been stated. It's been implied mid to late 30s. Born in 1977, I got it from Arrowverse Wiki

 

http://arrow.wikia.com/wiki/John_Diggle

 

Thx for the RP age.

[BkWurm1]

Weird to realize that David Ramsey is only two-three years younger than Paul Blackthorne and that KC and CL are only a month apart.

[wingster55]

On that same length..Willa is older than EBR

[BkWurm1]

On that same length..Willa is older than EBR

I'm glad I've known that for years. Otherwise it might have been weird to me as well. I was surprised by how little she is older than Emily. Willa was born in June and Emily in July.

[kismet]

I would consider WH (6/18/91) & EBR (7/24/91) the same age, just as I would consider KC (11/25/86) & CL the same age (12/30/86). WH/KC is older than CL/EBR  by 1 month and a few days. I'm not sure that makes a huge difference in anything, especially considering it isn't even a pivotal month that determines entry into grade level or participation in activities. At least in my experience, some months (usually Aug-Oct, depending on the school district) are used as cut-off months. The only thing of mention is CL birthday does fall very close to the end of the year, which may have some impact. My sister is a December birthday, so we spend most of the year agewise seeming like we're 7 yrs apart, even though technically we are 6 yrs apart. But if you ask her, she'll usually say I'm 7 years older in casual conversation.

 

On the other hand, PB (5/5/69) & DR (11/17/71) being so close together IRL age (only 2.5 years separate them) is very odd to think about, considering the completely different ages they play on the show. PB plays the father of 2 adult children in the their late 20s, while DR plays said daughters co-patriots, and only a few years older than them on the show. That must be an interesting dynamic. Ironically, Susanna Thompson birthday is 1/27/58 - which is closer to the age that I envisioned MQ (perhaps a few yrs younger), but certainly not as young as the playing card suggested.

 

As silly as it is, I will never get tired of how funny it is to think about real life age in comparison to the character age you play on the screen.

[BkWurm1]

As silly as it is, I will never get tired of how funny it is to think about real life age in comparison to the character age you play on the screen.

There's probably some pearls of wisdom in there about how age is just how we act and perceive ourselves and stage in life might have little to do with age in life.

[Nanrad]

I think there is a difference between being in love & loving someone. I think OQ had loved LL for half of his life. That I think was accurate. Just like I think its accurate when when he tells QL he loves his family. But I'm not sure he was ever in love with LL. You don't consistently cheat on someone & be that disrespectful of the relationship if you are in love with the person. You don't come back from the dead and consistently push said person away, lie to her and, keep her out of your circle of trust but use her for information thereby putting her in danger anyway. His actions indicate that he might love LL but he is not in love with her either pre or post island.

A person in love does what OQ did in s3 with FS which is remain faithful & try to prioritize their happiness above their own. He let her go at personal emotional cost to him. He knew he couldn't commit to the relationship so he stopped it, as opposed to stringing her along & violating her trust at every opportunity like he did with LL.

OQ was in love with the thought of being in love, but his actions towards LL prove that he was never in love with her. I do think he loved her but it was not the romantic all consuming partner love. He loved her like he loved Tommy, Sara and Shado.

I completely agree.

 

Oliver showed trust, communicated, and was honest with Felicity. Even when Felicity asked him to say he didn't love her or whatever she asked him to do, Oliver refused to lie and say he didn't love/want to be with her. It was "I love you, but I can't be with you" basically because he couldn't bare the thought of her thinking his feelings weren't authentic even though he wasn't going to act on them. Oliver flat out lied to Laurel and told him to stay away from him. He doesn't trust her and he's not protecting her either, so what was his point. 

 

His behavior is a reflection of two things: his growth and the person he loves. As Kismet said, I believe, Laurel only brings out the extremes in Oliver, where as Felicity balances him. Oliver may be an ass at times, but he treats Felicity with respect and apologizes for his behavior when necessary. We see a lot of show not tell with them, where as Laurel and Oliver is tell, tell, tell. 

 

Due to their past relationship and the current status, I honestly don't see how or why people would ever want this relationship revisited. It's been a disaster in every moment they were an item or almost. Hell, it appears as if Oliver has treated most love interests better than LL even after he came back from the island.

[morakot]

Trying to track down the point where we hear about Laurel ratting out Sara when she wanted to go to an Oliver party. Which episode included this?