S05.E18: Dead Man's Tale

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Sherlock and Joan question how well they know Shinwell when they investigate the possibility he may have gotten away with the unsolved murder of his friend, a fellow gang member. Also, Sherlock and Joan's latest case puts them on the hunt for a treasure map rumored to lead to a fortune in pirate's gold hidden around New York City.

Promo:

[paigow]

Who will be in the photos of potential suspects that Sherlock puts on the living room wall??? Johnny & Orlando???

[sinkwriter]

Is this the season finale? Or do they have more episodes beyond this one?

[roseha]

I remember the show ran until May last year, and they get pre-empted a lot, so I hope this isn't the finale.

[paigow]

9 hours ago, sinkwriter said:

Is this the season finale? Or do they have more episodes beyond this one?

http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/elementary-season-five-cbs-24-episodes/

Minimum 22, maybe 24 this season

[Loandbehold]

The college basketball game ran more than a half-hour long, so remember to set the DVR to go an hour over. 

[possibilities]

I thought Sherlock's voice sounded completely different tonight. It was weird. It was like he was affecting a totaly different accent. What is wrong with me and/or the sound on this show???

Shinwell kicking the shit out of Sherlock was painful. And yet he still seemed to be emotionally checked out while doing it. Weird.

The guy who played the villain (Patrick Fabian?) is ALWAYS a bad guy. I have never seen him play anything else. I wonder how it feels to be typecast as a villain, and whether he is resigned to it, does it bother him, or is it actually all he ever wanted out of acting....

[orza]

9 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I thought Sherlock's voice sounded completely different tonight. It was weird. It was like he was affecting a totaly different accent. What is wrong with me and/or the sound on this show???

It sounded like JLM had a bad cold.

[paigow]

42 minutes ago, possibilities said:

The guy who played the villain (Patrick Fabian?) is ALWAYS a bad guy...

He is a very good player on Celebrity Name Game...

Edited March 27, 2017 by paigow

[paigow]

Little brother is going to jail for attempted murder or not? Dude confessed...

Shinwell atones for murder by breaking SBK...then leaves tri-state area...hopefully

[GaT]

2 hours ago, possibilities said:

I thought Sherlock's voice sounded completely different tonight. It was weird. It was like he was affecting a totaly different accent. What is wrong with me and/or the sound on this show???

I thought the same thing. nothing wrong with you or the sound :-)

[Vermicious Knid]

I must be on the same wavelength as the writers this week. After Sherlock said that nothing was what he wanted to find I immediately thought of The Producers and the con that required the play to fail. And then they showed the clip!

Yeah, JLM's voice sounded really weird when he was explaining the logbook to Joan. Had to dub over his lines maybe?

[Zahdii]

Shinwell is excruciating.  I think even the actor who plays him hates him.

[johntfs]

Shinwell was much more interesting in this episode than in all of the others.  I liked Shinwell's relative lack of affect even when he was beating Sherlock.  It was more "comprehension through pugilation."  Shinwell was literally beating sense, as he saw it, into Sherlock.

[Driad]

The names Black Peter and John Neligan are from the ACD story “The Adventure of Black Peter” but the plot is different.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Adventure_of_Black_Peter

[basiltherat]

Shinwell singlehandedly brings down the Evil Gang, then dies a heroes death in a hail of gunfire.  The End.

I see a Mason/Dark Internet Broker Girl romance in the future.

I propose that Sherlock let Shinwell kick the crap out of him on purpose, to learn what he is really up to. 

[Zolo]

Loved the ending, it shocked me, and I also think that it makes sense. We finally figured out Shinwell's real motivation behind wanting to bring down SBK, and now we know why he doesn't really fear his own death. A part of him died that night, when they made him kill his own friend. He needs this badly, and other than his daughter, the only thing that keeps him going. I also liked that he hit Sherlock from behind first, making him unable to defend himself, because otherwise he probably would have handed Shinwell his behind.

I like Shinwell's character, especially now that his dark secret and real motivation came to light. It looks more and more obvious that we will not have a Moriarty showdown this year either, but rather an SBK one where Shinwell will probably have a chance to redeem himself, and quite possibly die in the process, maybe saving a main character. Watson would fit the bill nicely. Then we could have a Moriarty showdown in the next season.

 

Unrelated speculative rant/what I would like to see down the road:

It will probably never happen, but I would love a showdown with real stakes. Maybe Moriarty manages to kidnap everybody, including Morland, Mycroft and even Alfredo, along with Joan, Captain Gregson, Bell and of course Sherlock. A remote location, where Sherlock has to solve numerous riddles to save everyone. Or maybe Moriarty would send a list to him with those names, saying that one by one, she would start to kill off these characters, naming the date where his first victim would fall.

And then Sherlock brings everyone to New York, and they have to work together to stay alive, but Moriarty is successful on the first day... Alfredo would probably be the one to go first, and after that things get really tense for the season finale (would be a two-episode), some inside conflict, Bell and Grigson not agreeing to stay off the grid, etc, etc. The only problem - other than maybe these being dumb ideas, haha -, this version of Moriarty is not that hardcore, right? Would something like this even fit this character? I think not. 

Edited March 27, 2017 by Zolo

[paigow]

54 minutes ago, Zolo said:

It will probably never happen, but I would love a showdown with real stakes. Maybe Moriarty manages to kidnap everybody, including Morland, Mycroft and even Alfredo, along with Joan, Captain Gregson, Bell and of course Sherlock. A remote location, where Sherlock has to solve numerous riddles to save everyone. 
 

Like BBC Sherlock experienced with his sister....

[fastiller]

59 minutes ago, Zolo said:

Loved the ending, it shocked me, and I also think that it makes sense. We finally figured out Shinwell's real motivation behind wanting to bring down SBK, and now we know why he doesn't really fear his own death. A part of him died that night, when they made him kill his own friend. He needs this badly, and other than his daughter, the only thing that keeps him going. I also liked that he hit Sherlock from behind first, making him unable to defend himself, because otherwise he probably would have handed Shinwell his behind.

I like Shinwell's character, especially now that his dark secret and real motivation came to light. It looks more and more obvious that we will not have a Moriarty showdown this year either, but rather an SBK one where Shinwell will probably have a chance to redeem himself, and quite possibly die in the process, maybe saving a main character. Watson would fit the bill nicely. Then we could have a Moriarty showdown in the next season.

<snip>

So, my DVR started acting up right after the last commercial break; I could only watch this in FF mode. I gather the always-plays-the-baddie (as noted by @possibilities) Patrick Fabian was the guilty party.  Did they explain how/what happened?

Also - could someone expand on the above quoted post?  Shinwell was told by SBK to kill the friend? Is there anything more that we learned?

[paigow]

27 minutes ago, fastiller said:

Also - could someone expand on the above quoted post?  Shinwell was told by SBK to kill the friend? Is there anything more that we learned?

Shinwell killed his friend in the mistaken belief that it was justified on account of treasonous activity. SBK leadership sacrificed Jamiel in exchange for a truce with a rival gang that improved profitability. In reality, Jamiel had merely hooked up with the ex-girlfriend of someone in said rival gang. Shinwell has sworn revenge on SBK for lying to him.  

[fastiller]

Thanks @paigow.

[basiltherat]

I, for one, would rather not see any kind of epic showdown -- or anything, in fact -- to do with Moriarty.  I guess its expected (due to canon) but I prefer not to go the obvious route.  I wonder if the actress is even available.  I don't want to see any of our gang sacrificed in a ratings ploy. 

[Zahdii]

3 hours ago, paigow said:

Like BBC Sherlock experienced with his sister....

Wait!  BBC Sherlock has/had a sister?  How did I miss that?

[paigow]

4 minutes ago, Zahdii said:

Wait!  BBC Sherlock has/had a sister?  How did I miss that?

Most recent season finale...smarter than Mycroft & Sherlock...twice as sociopathic...

[johntfs]

4 hours ago, Zolo said:

this version of Moriarty is not that hardcore, right? Would something like this even fit this character? I think not.

Jaime Moriarty is plenty hardcore.  Recall that one of the victims of the "serial killer" M (who killed on Moriarty's orders) was a 12 year old.  That said she doesn't really indulge in Saw-like games (or, honestly, act anything at all like Jim Moriarty on Sherlock).  If she wanted Sherlock out of her way for something, she wouldn't kidnap his friends and do a riddle death game.  She'd have Sherlock kidnapped, held somewhere secure and then released when whatever danger he presented was over.

I really don't see that there needs to be some "final reckoning" with Moriarty.  she and Sherlock love each other.  Weird as it sounds, they're more likely to go off together to some non-extradition country than fight some final duel.

[Zolo]

5 hours ago, paigow said:

Like BBC Sherlock experienced with his sister....

Oh boy, you are right, that was very similar. So that idea is out of the question. I liked my second scenario better anyway. I just hope they put together a brilliant and thrilling finale when it's time. Maybe it could be a series finale, even, though I hope that this show goes on for at least another five years. 

1 hour ago, basiltherat said:

I, for one, would rather not see any kind of epic showdown -- or anything, in fact -- to do with Moriarty.  I guess its expected (due to canon) but I prefer not to go the obvious route.  I wonder if the actress is even available.  I don't want to see any of our gang sacrificed in a ratings ploy. 

I respect your opinion, but how would that make sense from a story standpoint? The witch clearly stated to Watson that the game is far from over, and even implied with the chess example that one day she may kill her. She didn't want her to be moved off the board prematurely, meaning she might do it herself one day. She is not a person who would ever let go, and just let Sherlock live happily ever after. It wouldn't make any sense. 

[Zolo]

1 hour ago, johntfs said:

I really don't see that there needs to be some "final reckoning" with Moriarty.  she and Sherlock love each other.  Weird as it sounds, they're more likely to go off together to some non-extradition country than fight some final duel.

You are probably right about the Sherlock-Moriarty dynamic, but Watson is more important to Sherlock, and I thought the writers did well to highligh that jealousy in Moriarty. So that will more than likely be the reason of a showdown like that, because she basically told Watson that one day she plans to kill her. I think I figured out the reason why all of this feels so off the script... It's because we haven't seen her in like two years. They really should have put her in some episodes, to grow that grudge between her and Watson. If a season finale would involve her now, it would indeed feel out of place. If they ever plan to do that, they have to sign the actress for at least 2-3 episodes mid season, where they can once again bury those seeds that would eventually grow into that epic showdown.

[Moxie Cat]

Going back to the main plot: if the ship didn't have any treasure, where did the gold that the Saudi guy had come from? The professor looked at the photo of the guy with the gold and said the gold "wasn't possible." If there wasn't any gold on the ship, where did it come from and why did he lie about it? I was confused by that.

[rainsmom]

11 minutes ago, Moxie Cat said:

Going back to the main plot: if the ship didn't have any treasure, where did the gold that the Saudi guy had come from? The professor looked at the photo of the guy with the gold and said the gold "wasn't possible." If there wasn't any gold on the ship, where did it come from and why did he lie about it? I was confused by that.

The ship wasn't supposed to have any gold on it. All of the historical documents EXCEPT the pirate's log said "No gold."

The academic, then, wasn't interested, because no gold.

The murderer was the one who had claimed salvage rights. He believed there was NO GOLD and was conning his investors based on that reality. It was because the historical documents were WRONG and there was gold, that he had to murder the guy and arrange for the rich guy to "sneak" in and salvage it ahead of him.

[Moxie Cat]

57 minutes ago, rainsmom said:

It was because the historical documents were WRONG and there was gold, that he had to murder the guy and arrange for the rich guy to "sneak" in and salvage it ahead of him.

So there WAS gold? That makes sense though a bit convoluted! Thanks.

[MisterGlass]

I will give credit to the show - something finally happened with the Shinwell story.  However, the more I know about head injuries the more freaked out I get when someone gets hit in the head with a bottle.  Shinwell may be a morally gray character but he slipped several notches farther toward villain by doing that to Sherlock. 

Shinwell ought to be worried about what Joan is going to do to him at this point.

My favorite bit was when Marcus asked if anyone else was looking for the ark of the covenant in the warehouse, and Sherlock said no, it's in a warehouse in Yemen.

[thuganomics85]

Ah, a good old pirate case!  That was pretty fun, but come one: of course, it was going to be Patrick Fabian.  Even looking past his characters usually always being up to no good, the look on his face when he saw the victim's photo made it seem obvious that he was uncomfortable that the police were questioning him about it.  And, again, there really wasn't any other strong suspects in the case, so it had to be him.

Shinwell finally got interesting, and it just happens to be when he's getting the crap out of poor Sherlock.  Nelsan Ellis finally had a spark back in him again, and I suspect a lot of it is because he finally has an idea what his character's motivations are and what his plans are.  Definitely don't see him sticking around after this season though.  Either he will sacrifice himself to take out SBK or he'll end up going away again, either for an old crime or a new one Sherlock and Joan are able to stick on him.

I actually enjoyed some of the minor characters like the billionaire and the teen online fencer.

Oh, Mason.  Never change!

[RachelKM]

I've been sort of checked out this season. I still like the characters, but I just can't seem to pay attention.  That said, I immediately got the Producers reference (thank you, show, for using the original).  I liked this story.  

As for Shinwell, I didn't have strong feelings about the character. I like Nelsan Ellis and I think it was residual affection for the actor that made me care about him at all.  And even with that, I would much rather see more of Alfredo or Ms. Hudson or, hell, even Joan's sister.  Wait, no... The sister and Shinwell are tied.   I found this part of his story sort of interesting and sad, but not overly moving.  So I guess I don't care about him that much (but, then, I don't care about this season that much).

I'm sort of nonplussed by Sherlock's reaction to finding out that Shinwell "is a murderer."   Like, um.... why are we shocked?  Wasn't Shinwell's original meeting with Joan via a surgery after a shooting in which he was one of the shooters?  So, is it just this murder that offends Sherlock?  Is it because he got away with it? Did Sherlock imagine that the only crime Shinwell committed, or at least the only shooting, was the one for which he was caught?  I just found Sherlock's "I kept a murderer on the streets" thing a bit overwrought.  Either he thinks Shinwell has turned himself around and is genuine in his desire to take down the SBK or he doesn't.  So why does learning about one additional crime, a crime that may have given him additional motive to seek to take down his old gang, be such a deal breaker for Sherlock?

[Mama No Life]

Probably because he lied about it instead of owning up like he did with the other crime.

[Clanstarling]

On 3/26/2017 at 10:00 PM, orza said:

It sounded like JLM had a bad cold.

I agree. In at least one scene he sounded more like himself, so I imagine they shot it on a different day.

On 3/27/2017 at 5:51 AM, johntfs said:

Shinwell was much more interesting in this episode than in all of the others.  I liked Shinwell's relative lack of affect even when he was beating Sherlock.  It was more "comprehension through pugilation."  Shinwell was literally beating sense, as he saw it, into Sherlock.

Sad, isn't it? This was the most interesting I've found him too.

18 hours ago, basiltherat said:

I, for one, would rather not see any kind of epic showdown -- or anything, in fact -- to do with Moriarty.  I guess its expected (due to canon) but I prefer not to go the obvious route.  I wonder if the actress is even available.  I don't want to see any of our gang sacrificed in a ratings ploy. 

She's no longer on Game of Thrones, so who knows?

14 hours ago, Moxie Cat said:

Going back to the main plot: if the ship didn't have any treasure, where did the gold that the Saudi guy had come from? The professor looked at the photo of the guy with the gold and said the gold "wasn't possible." If there wasn't any gold on the ship, where did it come from and why did he lie about it? I was confused by that.

All of the historical documents said nothing about the gold. But, Black Peter's log book revealed that there was, in fact, gold on the ship (his? I'm not sure). So it had actually been there all along and the experts were wrong. Patrick Fabian's character secretly sold the log book to the Saudi guy, because he was invested (hah) in not finding gold on the ship. So he needed someone to find the gold before he did.

Edited March 28, 2017 by Clanstarling

[racked]

This was a good episode, I was interested in the main mystery for a change and there wasn't too much Shinwell dragging things down. I did wonder why the bad treasure hunter didn't just pay off the guy with the captains log and pretend he never found gold. Do the investors tend to go on the expedition so they'd be there to see the gold? Or was he afraid his crew would tell them? And why would this many people invest in an expedition to a wreck it seems was well known for NOT having any gold? 

I loved the actor who plays Shinwell on True Blood so much, it's depressing to see him in this role. Even though he was more interesting last night, it's just not good.

[RachelKM]

7 hours ago, Mama No Life said:

Probably because he lied about it instead of owning up like he did with the other crime.

Sherlock expressly stated that his actions led to a murderer remaining on the streets to possibly murder again.  It seemed like Sherlock had just discovered Shinwell was a murderer and was now regretting keeping him free like Shinwell might be a general threat.  I just don't understand why Sherlock was so willing to help Shinwell before while knowing his past, but this one element of his past was a bridge too far. 

I would understand if the murder in question had been recent indicating Shinwell was not truly reformed.  But this happened in the same time frame as all of Shinwells other known crimes. So, why the sudden and dramatic shift? 

Supposing it was because Shinwell lied about this one murder, it was a crime that had personal relevance for Shinwell.  So I can see why this one crime would be harder for Shinwell to admit to, even it if didn't still carry the threat of prosecution, and so should Sherlock.  I'm not saying I'm cool with it or that Sherlock had to be.  But his near pearl clutching over how they really didn't know Shinwell and how he was a danger/evil that shouldn't be allowed to roam free even to take down a greater danger/evil was sort confusing to me.

[nitrofishblue]

Could someone fill me in about the ending. I did set my DVR for 30 extra minutes but the damn basketball game ran over so I missed the last five minutes. It shut off while Watson and Sherlock just started questioning the guy I think was the killer. WEhat happened to Shinwell?

[RachelKM]

8 minutes ago, nitrofishblue said:

Could someone fill me in about the ending. I did set my DVR for 30 extra minutes but the damn basketball game ran over so I missed the last five minutes. It shut off while Watson and Sherlock just started questioning the guy I think was the killer. WEhat happened to Shinwell?

The salvage guy who had earlier claimed that he turned down the victim because he already had salvage rights and an expedition planned was the murder.  As stated by the professor, none of the official documentation on the sunken ship indicated there was any gold.  Therefore, he expected the expedition to be largely a bust and certainly not recover its costs.  Expecting that it would make no profit, and likely even lose money, he had over sold shares in the project by 10 times (i.e. he'd sold 1000% interest).  As long as the expedition didn't make money, there was nothing to pay out to his investors and he could pocket the excess money on the over selling of the shares with them never knowing that he'd sold their worthless shares 10 times over.  But if there was a profit, he would owe 10 times the value of the profit to his share holders.  

When the victim came to him with proof there was gold on the ship after all, he needed the ship to be stripped before he got there or he'd owe his investors 10 whatever the value of the treasure on board.  So he killed the victim, stole the log book establishing there was gold, and sold the book to the amateur treasure hunter who was rich and could immediately fund his own expedition to ensure he would get there first and take the gold, thus, ensuring that the "Producers" plot would work out for him.  

As for Shinwell, at the end of the show, he jumped Sherlock breaking a bottle over his head from behind and then kicking him repeatedly.  Shinwell admitted that he killed his friend on orders of the SBK.  Apparently the SBK made a profitable deal with a rival gang to split territory.  One of the conditions by the rival gang was that Shinwell's friend be killed because he'd begun dating one of the rival gang leader's ex-girlfriends.  SBK lied to Shinwell and told him his friend betrayed the gang and had to be taken out, in other words the set him and his friend up and ordered Shinwell to kill his best friend on false pretenses.  This is largely what ended up turning Shinwell against them and seems to be a primary motivator for his desire to take them down. 

[Moxie Cat]

15 hours ago, MisterGlass said:

My favorite bit was when Marcus asked if anyone else was looking for the ark of the covenant in the warehouse, and Sherlock said no, it's in a warehouse in Yemen.

Marcus: I was kidding. 

Sherlock (a bit too quickly): Me too.

I loved that bit too - was totally thinking of Raiders before Marcus's line!

Edited March 28, 2017 by Moxie Cat

[Arnella]

2 hours ago, nitrofishblue said:

Could someone fill me in about the ending. I did set my DVR for 30 extra minutes but the damn basketball game ran over so I missed the last five minutes.

You can watch the episode the next day (although you can't skip over the commercials) here:

http://www.cbs.com/shows/elementary/

[roseha]

You can also watch it on demand if you have that. I prefer On Demand because I can at least mute my tv during the commercials.

[basil]

Quote

 

Sherlock expressly stated that his actions led to a murderer remaining on the streets to possibly murder again.  It seemed like Sherlock had just discovered Shinwell was a murderer and was now regretting keeping him free like Shinwell might be a general threat.  I just don't understand why Sherlock was so willing to help Shinwell before while knowing his past, but this one element of his past was a bridge too far. 

I would understand if the murder in question had been recent indicating Shinwell was not truly reformed.  But this happened in the same time frame as all of Shinwells other known crimes. So, why the sudden and dramatic shift? 

Supposing it was because Shinwell lied about this one murder, it was a crime that had personal relevance for Shinwell.  So I can see why this one crime would be harder for Shinwell to admit to, even it if didn't still carry the threat of prosecution, and so should Sherlock.  I'm not saying I'm cool with it or that Sherlock had to be.  But his near pearl clutching over how they really didn't know Shinwell and how he was a danger/evil that shouldn't be allowed to roam free even to take down a greater danger/evil was sort confusing to me.

 

The writing on this show, with the exception of the often brilliant dialogue, has always bothered me. Sherlock has let killers and other criminals go. He himself has beaten, tortured, and intended to kill another man, based on his (incorrect) conclusion that he had killed his lover (Irene). He has no high ground to stand on.

Quote

As for Shinwell, at the end of the show, he jumped Sherlock breaking a bottle over his head from behind and then kicking him repeatedly.  Shinwell admitted that he killed his friend on orders of the SBK.  Apparently the SBK made a profitable deal with a rival gang to split territory.  One of the conditions by the rival gang was that Shinwell's friend be killed because he'd begun dating one of the rival gang leader's ex-girlfriends.  SBK lied to Shinwell and told him his friend betrayed the gang and had to be taken out, in other words the set him and his friend up and ordered Shinwell to kill his best friend on false pretenses.  This is largely what ended up turning Shinwell against them and seems to be a primary motivator for his desire to take them down.

This whole Shinwell thing doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I almost wonder if he isn't under cover somehow. Deep cover. How was he able to convince his gang to just give up two lucrative corners to a rival gang in exchange for leaving his daughter alone when just months before he was pretty much on probabation. This isn't adding up.

[possibilities]

16 hours ago, racked said:

why would this many people invest in an expedition to a wreck it seems was well known for NOT having any gold?

Great question!

[Eneya]

The episode was fun but my reaction to Shiwell was something like "Let Moriarty get her hands on him."... the gal of this person was beyond... everything. Beating the crap out of one of the two people who actually saw him as a person was too much.
I hope he disappears, seriously, I am done with this character. The scene of the beating WAS really good and was acted very well, however... make him pay... :)

[Zolo]

7 hours ago, basil said:

The writing on this show, with the exception of the often brilliant dialogue, has always bothered me. Sherlock has let killers and other criminals go. He himself has beaten, tortured, and intended to kill another man, based on his (incorrect) conclusion that he had killed his lover (Irene). He has no high ground to stand on.

Sure, but wouldn't this just make Sherlock's character more realistic? People do this all the time, being inconsistent with their moral stence, when it fits something. To me it's simple, and Sherlock even said it, he stole evidence for the guy, risking his career and going to jail, and he lied to him. He is simply mad and as a result, he justifies wanting to put him away a lot more easily. He feels betrayed, and for a good reason. 

[basil]

Quote

why would this many people invest in an expedition to a wreck it seems was well known for NOT having any gold?

Quote

 

Quote

Great question!

People, especially rich ones, have very odd hobbies. Sometimes people just want to know the history. It ain't always about the money  

Quote

Sure, but wouldn't this just make Sherlock's character more realistic? People do this all the time, being inconsistent with their moral stence [sic], when it fits something. To me it's simple, and Sherlock even said it, he stole evidence for the guy, risking his career and going to jail, and he lied to him. He is simply mad and as a result, he justifies wanting to put him away a lot more easily. He feels betrayed, and for a good reason. 

I don't think Sherlock really risked his career and jail time - as presented, he's too good to get caught, and I don't see Sherlock as being vengeful unless it pertains to him or someone close to him or his morals. We still has zero evidence that Shinwell killed his buddy. NONE. The kid heard things. He saw Shinwell walking away and throw something away. Even during Sherlock's beating by Shinwell, he never confesses. He says "a friend" was asked to kill Jamal. Isn't that an odd way to put it if he was confessing? I think his beatdown of Sherlock was an attempt to protect Sherlock and Joan. Shinwell, whose last hope, his daughter, rejected him, so now he is going scorched earth on the gang, and doesn't want our duo involved in it.

Edited March 29, 2017 by basil

[beadgirl]

Quote

why would this many people invest in an expedition to a wreck it seems was well known for NOT having any gold?

Perhaps the bad guy chose investors who were naive about this sort of thing, or wouldn't have the requisite background to be aware of what all the academics thought about the wreck.  Some people don't actually do too much homework when they invest.

I'm sure others have noticed this, but I think it is interesting they tend to focus on one Irregular per season or so. First Alfredo, then Kitty, now Shinwell (although I guess, strictly speaking, he's not one). 

Edited March 29, 2017 by beadgirl

[theatremouse]

Or that's part of why he oversold it by SO much. Maybe he was only having the investor's go in for very little, making it seem lowerish risk for them, but he needed more of them to cover his costs for the expedition+make a profit when he found nothing. If the investors weren't in for very much each, and were kind of dilletantes about it, they'd need less evidence to be convinced. Possibly him just saying "there's this wreck and rumor is..." and then they just don't question it because they consider him an expert. Rich people oft be fools.

[roseha]

15 hours ago, basil said:

We still has zero evidence that Shinwell killed his buddy. NONE. The kid heard things. He saw Shinwell walking away and throw something away. Even during Sherlock's beating by Shinwell, he never confesses. He says "a friend" was asked to kill Jamal. Isn't that an odd way to put it if he was confessing? I think his beatdown of Sherlock was an attempt to protect Sherlock and Joan. Shinwell, whose last hope, his daughter, rejected him, so now he is going scorched earth on the gang, and doesn't want our duo involved in it

I heard this too, and I was confused about it, especially since Shinwell had insisted earlier that he never killed anyone.  It is possible someone else did the killing and Shinwell was afraid to confront him?  Also, why would Shinwell kill his friend in his family home?

There might be more to this I guess.  Maybe it will turn out in the end he is not the murderer.

I did like the main story, the conclusion that the bad guy had basically been cooking up a Ponzi scheme of sorts to sell worthless shares of sunken "treasure" was an interesting twist.

Edited March 30, 2017 by roseha