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S34.E03: Survivor Jackpot


Tara Ariano
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6 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

 Also, there's a difference between a quick killing by an expert in a slaughter house and JT possibly mangling the job and leaving a motherless kid to starve.

See, this is how far away people have gotten from their own food. When I was six years old, I was helping my dad with the killing of six-week old rabbits for food. You knock them in the head, and it is over. It's far more humane than the slitting of throats or electric shocks they use in slaughterhouses.

I agree with you that most people have weird hang-ups about seeing mammals die. I just find it pretty horrendous for an omnivore to feel that way, especially when they try to cast it as some kind of moral stance. I can assure you that the calves, rabbits, goats and pigs my family raised had far better lives than Big Ag livestock do. No weird inbreeding. We didn't feed the dead animals to each other to save money. No animals stuffed in overcrowded pens. None needed antibiotics just to stay alive. As kids, we played with them until it was time to eat them, and none of us shed a single tear because that's the way of nature. It is too bad that meat-eating people are willing to let animals suffer a lifetime on a commercial ranch, but are hung up on how and when they die. 

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19 hours ago, azshadowwalker said:

To be honest, I thought everyone out there except Sandra was a hypocrite. They will kill chickens, but not goats? Michaela, especially, was perfectly happy to kill the chickens because "they are for eating". Whatever, Michaela.  It was as bad as people who buy Big Ag meat, but get uptight about those who kill their own. 

Sandra said she didn't know how to kill it, but she would help dress it. She didn't tell anyone how to do anything. ...

 

19 hours ago, Superpole2000 said:

I agree with you azshadowwalker. There is no pleasant way to kill animals for human consumption. If you didn't want to see the goats die in this episode (I didn't) then don't order a hamburger, BLT, or chicken salad tomorrow. Out of sight, out of mind isn't a good enough philosophy on this issue. ...

 

 

19 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

As a long-time, unsentimental vegetarian, I'm always baffled by people's reaction to killing/eating animals on Survivor.  ...

 

9 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

They didn't leave it up to her though. Several people wanted to catch the goats. And after they caught them, they all sat own, discussed it, and took a vote. There was certainly no threatening or bullying or strong-arming or anything even remotely close to that on Sandra's part. 

And I really don't understand why so many people think Sandra is evil because she wanted to eat a goat. So did other people. And, unless you're a vegan, you have no reason at all to be upset. If you eat meat, you really don't have a leg to stand on here. (Generic "you", not anyone in particular) Why is it ok to eat the chickens but not the goat? And "honoring" the animal before you eat it (which they mention all the time on cooking shows) is just a bunch of BS people say to make themselves feel better. If you really wanted to honor the animal, you wouldn't eat it. I guess the hypocrisy just really bothers me. If you eat meat, you're just as "evil" as Sandra.

My peeps!  My peeps!  As a vegetarian two things bother me the most regards the eating of meat.  Fellow vegetarians who get all sanctimonious over being morally superior about not eating meat and carnivores who get hypocritical about stuff like this goat thing.  As a veggie I have far more respect for hunters who actually "own" where meat comes from and are honest enough to kill, gut and dress their own. 

So I actually respect Sandra the most on her tribe.  She didn't know how to kill the goats but she said she would totally gut and dress the carcass which is far more bloody and gory a task.  She owned it as opposed to those other hypocrites there who were just as "blood thirsty" over goat-eating until, you know, they actually caught goats.  And she listened to the discussion and was fine with letting the goats go as well.

I am troubled that she gets such blow-back though.  This edit, though why people got upset at her is beyond me, probably does not bode well for her making it far in the game.  Because to me it is the edit of an honest person and so I don't see anything villainous about her at all.

Edited by green
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5 hours ago, DallasGypsy said:

Afterthought:  how "fortunate" that she began the game on the same team as Tony and, after the shuffle, she's on the same team as JT.

Lucky draw of the buff, that's for sure.

3 hours ago, DEL901 said:

Also - Probst told EW that if they had decided to kill the goat production would have let them!!!!!!!!!

I hate him even more now. And he'd had them film it from 12 different angles, complete with animal screaming.

20 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

If Tai had to choose between the tribe killing Mark the Chicken or a baby goat, who would he pick?

He'd throw himself into the fire, yelling "Here, eat my flesh!! Leave Mark and the Lester the Goat alone!!"

After he'd given himself a full body exfoliation, of course. When he was rubbing that sand all around and into his eyes.....mine started itching

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Is this the 500th anniversary of  Gilligan's Island?  Tribal Council seems like some sort of homage set.  That looks like the SS Minnow there in the background.  I keep waiting for Gilligan and the Skipper to wander in.  

Weird episode.  Have to agree that there must have been nothing going on to show to spend so much time on the JT raft thing and the goat thing.  Early days with so many people and so many tribes it is hard to capture any real strategy and alliance making.  Or mabe the alliance may have gelled so fast and its just a bit of boring see how things play out based on challenges IDK.  

I also agree it would have been great for Hali and Caleb to join up with Debbie and Tai or something.  Both fun and makes some sense.  The JT leaving them on the raft was funny but they dragged it out too much.  Something must have been happening on the other tribes?!?  More Cirie and Ozzy!!!

I didn't want to see the goats killed.  I also hate trophy hunting and don't eat veal or lamb. I freak about eating turtle. I would be a vegetarian if I wasn't so lazy and have always lacked any kind of self discipline.

 But I also recognize that there isn't much difference btw your next reward  is a spa retreat with a rack of lamb meal!  Or even steak, hamburgers whatever.  No they aren't starving but they would normally be eating anyway.  So while I wouldn't like it I would have to suck up killing a goat as long as they didn't show it. Show the discussion, then roasting in the fire and cut out all the drama in btw including the catching because all the in btw would seem too much like for entertainment.    JT killing a goat is probably more humane than the meat they serve for reward challenges.  It was running free, free range, never got trucked to a facility where it was dragged to a line, hung by a foot or killed who knows how - there is nothing humane about the "normal" way our meat gets killed.  JT as a cattle rancher and probable hunter could probably do a pretty fast humane job comparatively and it would be a more humane meat meal than anything they get served.  That said I would in no way condone letting any kind of inexperienced person do it.  

Tai - wow way to just send your bud home.  Honestly I can see myself doing something just as stupid, you trying to hard, thinking I'm more smooth than than I am.  But I haven't been asked back on Survivor either.  I really wouldn't want to be in an alliance with him at this point even if I do still like him a lot on a personal level. 

I kind of wondered if Sierra and Hali were sandbagging and playing up their dislike but actually have a secret alliance.  But then I vaguely remembered something after reading along in Hali's thread.  

Didn't Joe and Jenn date briefly but he left Jenn for a short lived relationship with Sierra?  Isn't that why you don't see Jenn and Hali partying with the rest of the Dirty 30?  I can't remember it exactly so that may be wrong but there is something like that in addition to the fact that Sierra wouldn't leave her alliance with those 2 jerks for an alliance with Jenn and Hali.  So for all of everyone's hating on Tai for sticking with his 2 jerks he and Sierra have a lot in common.  

Interesting thought upstream about Sandra tgting previous winners solely to save her 2 win legacy title.  I can see it, go for the save, winning a third time would be a lottery bonus.

Edited by Giesela
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1 minute ago, Giesela said:

Is this the 500th anniversary of  Gilligan's Island?  Tribal Council seems like some sort of homage set.  that looks like that is the SS Minnow there in the background.  I keep waiting for Gilligan and the Skipper to wander in.  

HAHA!! When they showed that sunken ship underwater, my fiance asked me "What's this show? Did you switch to The History Channel?"

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I'm sorry to see Caleb go.  I liked him last time and was hoping to see him do better here.  He didn't seem all that visible, so I was surprised he got very little airtime before he went home.  I think Tai is one of the worst players to ever play the game.  He could have easily gone with Caleb and Hali, then bring in Debbie and vote out the most dangerous player on the tribe, Brad Culpepper.  I don't understand why neither Caleb nor Hali recognised that.  They just seemed to accept their fate that one of the two of them would be voted off.  Tai is easily manipulated and Brad saw that and twisted.  So good for Brad I suppose.

Re the immunity idol hidden at the challenge, I didn't look closely enough to see if there was one hidden at the other two tables.  I know that none of them found clues, because we would have seen it, but is it confirmed that if nobody finds the clue, that the idol isn't hidden?  I think they should always be there, because what happens if you just get lucky and see it?  It wasn't that hard to see.

12 hours ago, azshadowwalker said:

To be honest, I thought everyone out there except Sandra was a hypocrite. They will kill chickens, but not goats? Michaela, especially, was perfectly happy to kill the chickens because "they are for eating". Whatever, Michaela.  It was as bad as people who buy Big Ag meat, but get uptight about those who kill their own. 

I fully agree.  Sandra, JT and Malcolm all wanted to eat a goat.  JT was the one that grabbed the baby, and Malcolm was holding the mother who seemed to be in some sort of small cave and asked JT for help in extracting it.  It was only when JT and Malcolm realised that it was a mother and child that they didn't want to eat them.

Regarding the argument that "these people had no need for food, they have chickens to lay eggs and an ocean of fish", I don't agree.  These people are stuck on a beach and in a competition where being physically and mentally strong is an advantage.  If they caught a goat, then it means they don't have to eat a chicken.  The chickens can live longer and produce more eggs.  If they caught a goat, then it means they don't have to expend any energy in going out to catch fish.

Frankly I don't see any difference between what happened here and what has happened in the past.  Wasn't there at least one season (very early on) where a tribe was trying to hunt a wild boar?  They weren't successful, but where was the outrage about people hunting boars and pigs?  Are boars considered less cute than a baby goat and therefore it's ok to kill the ugly boar?  And everyone except Tai realises that eventually they will eat the chickens.  And those chickens will have to be killed.  If killing a goat is so wrong, why is it OK to eat the fish then?  Those fish have mothers and fathers and siblings as well.  Don't fish have feelings and can't they feel pain as well?  I work with a woman who says she is vegetarian and won't eat meat because she says it is very cruel to animals.  But she gladly eats fish and shellfish and the only explanation she is willing to give is that "it's different".

10 hours ago, Pazlovejoy said:

I knew the baby goat and its mama were in no danger throughout the whole scene. No way would they have allowed them to kill Bambi or his mother.

I know what you are saying, but thought I'd mention that Bambi is a deer, which is very much a different animal than a goat.

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7 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I know what you are saying, but thought I'd mention that Bambi is a deer, which is very much a different animal than a goat.

Not to mention that Bambi's mother was killed by a hunter.  :)

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The thing is re: goat killing, that while on an intellectual level people can appreciate that it's hypocritical to be horrified, it's almost always an emotional reaction that you can't really help. And for those who haven't been raised on farms, hunting, etc., it's a visceral response because we don't have that same insight into the butchering process - food shows up on a plate and we eat it. But when you see the goats hopping around and being all cute and goat-like, you immediately form an emotional attachment. It'd be different if they went on reward and were served roasted goat; there probably wouldn't be any complaints about that.
The fact that it's televised is a major factor too. I don't care if you hunt or raise farm animals to slaughter - I just don't want to see it on my TV!

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7 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I know that none of them found clues, because we would have seen it, but is it confirmed that if nobody finds the clue, that the idol isn't hidden

Correct. No clue, no idol. They go hand in hand.

1 minute ago, Sugar said:

The fact that it's televised is a major factor too. I don't care if you hunt or raise farm animals to slaughter - I just don't want to see it on my TV

That's how I feel. I've seen hogs butchered, chickens killed and plucked....scared the daylights out of me, as I was young. I guess it stuck with me. But I am a meat-eater. I just don't want to get to know the cow first.

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19 minutes ago, blackwing said:

 I know that none of them found clues, because we would have seen it, but is it confirmed that if nobody finds the clue, that the idol isn't hidden?  I think they should always be there, because what happens if you just get lucky and see it?  It wasn't that hard to see.

 

10 minutes ago, cooksdelight said:

Correct. No clue, no idol. They go hand in hand.

 

Jeff confirmed it to EW.  No clue, no idol planted.  This time.  There's no fixed rule, but that's what they did this time.  The idol is for the person for found the clue.  (Although I'm not sure what they'd do if someone else found it first)

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20 minutes ago, blackwing said:

saying, but thought I'd mention that Bambi is a deer, which is very much a different animal than a goat

Someone on the show (Malcolm maybe?) said the situation was like Bambi.  

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Yes. I know Bambi was a deer. I was just taking poetic license. 

This episode didn't change my view of Sandra, but I now believe that she will be going home sooner rather than later. In a way that's too bad because it would have tickled me to see her defy all her critics. 

I would be rooting for Michaela if I thought she had a snowball's chance in hell. Although she's pretty loyal, she is too physically talented and not malleable enough to make a good long term ally, not to mention her inability to disassemble. I'm pretty sure she's going to be another early boot.

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19 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

Tai is really bad at this game.  Nice guy, but so bad at Survivor.  I would not want to align with him.

15 hours ago, millennium said:

I think Tai votes according to whatever the last person he spoke to before Tribal Council tells him.

He was very susceptible to suggestion in Kaôh Rōng, as well. I remember someone saying something similar about Woo in Cagayan—how, if Woo were a juror, then all one of the finalists would have to do to get his vote is be the last speaker and say, "So Woo, you're going to vote for me to win because that just makes sense, right?" I think this is equally applicable to Tai.

12 hours ago, Pazlovejoy said:

It's interesting that so far, two of the three people eliminated have been physically strong males. Perhaps the players are finally coming around to my way of thinking: If having physically strong people means you win challenges, then why did you lose the last one? Many factors need to be considered when voting for a boot, not just challenge prowess.

8 hours ago, ghoulina said:

I was just glad to see the new "red" (can't keep up with all these tribe names) tribe was safe, because I like pretty much everyone there.

They're a fun group of people (though not as hilarious as the Casaya tribe in Panama—this group is too functional), which is probably why they got so much air time, despite winning immunity. I loved JT just ditching everyone on the raft so that he could go look for the idol on land and watching everyone's reactions as it dawned on them what was happening. I thought the debate around killing the goat was handled very maturely—Sandra wanted to kill it but admitted she wouldn't know how to do it (I don't think anyone likes the idea of someone learning how to kill an animal on the fly) but would help with gutting and cooking it, they discussed it and realized that no one else wanted to kill the goats they had caught (I loved Malcolm's line, "I mean it is the goat version of Bambi right now."), and Michaela suggested an alternative that seemed to be acceptable to everyone. Like I said, far too functional a group to be the next Casaya, but I enjoy them all the same and if I were playing Survivor, this is the sort of tribe I would hope to be on, not least because the combination of Michaela, Malcolm, and JT is a force to be reckoned with in tribal immunity challenges. Even the tribe with Ozzy couldn't keep up with them.

7 hours ago, Haleth said:

I don't know if this will happen, but if there are several tribal shake ups (and I do hope they mix it up every couple of weeks) it doesn't do any good to keep the stronger men in the game.  Next week they might be on the other team.  Strength isn't an advantage when you don't have enough time to form bonds with your teammates.

This is true and something that the "keep the tribe strong at all costs" proponents seem to forget. Tribal swaps seem to happen more often than not on recent seasons. Keeping someone around to "keep the tribe strong" could mean that they're the reason your reshuffled tribe goes to tribal council later. Not only that, but few people ever seem to appreciate that there's little sense in keeping "strong" players around on a tribe that loses immunity—it's not their like strength in the most recent immunity challenge helped their tribe avoid tribal council. I don't blame the perceived "strong" players for making this argument, but I do blame "weak" players for being swayed by it, since it essentially means signing up to go before the the "strong" ones.

4 hours ago, Sugar said:

Also, I am confused. Brad Culpepper......he didn't suck. Like, I watched this episode just waiting to shout obscenities at my screen, but then... PLOT TWIST! Brad Culpepper decorates the camp and tells us about his love of antiquing. He refers to Hali not as some naive, ditzy girl but as a "budding attorney" and gives her props on how well she's acquitting herself at TC. He has a convo with Tai and gently persuades him to change his vote using subtle manipulation. I mean, granted, it's Tai, but still - I feel Like Brad Culpepper is slowly morphing into Fasier Crane. Just watch, next episode he'll tell us he has box seats at the opera and buys vintage sherry.

17 hours ago, PerfidiousAmber said:

I thought Hali did quite well for herself at tribal.

I was surprised at the edit Brad Culpepper is getting this time around, too. He's far less hyper and overtly bossy. I guess he took his previous portrayal to heart. In his pre-game interviews, it was pretty clear that he wasn't happy with people's reactions to him or how he came across, so I guess he decided to dial things back a bit this time around. He's a lawyer too and gave Hali credit for the way she handled the questions put to her at Tribal Council. I wonder if he's angling for an alliance with her.

Speaking of people I didn't want to see back, but don't hate as much as I thought I would this time around, I laughed at Troyzan's confessional about not buying Andrea's attempts to placate him: "Come on, I'm 54 years old—I'm the oldest guy out here—and, you know, my intuition is good." Ah yes, the famed intuition of 54 year old men. Zeus didn't see One World and says Troyzan reminds him of Oscar Bluth, which makes him want Troyzan in the game. I enjoy that they're back to hiding idols at challenges, though since it's only happened on one other season (and not in the last two), I don't think it's occurring to other players to keep an eye on each other during challenges, which is a shame since I want someone to get caught finding one.

Edited by Hera
Fixing a typo
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2 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

And I really don't understand why so many people think Sandra is evil because she wanted to eat a goat. So did other people. And, unless you're a vegan, you have no reason at all to be upset. If you eat meat, you really don't have a leg to stand on here.

I disagree. I do not think eating goat is bad. I, personally, have no desire to eat it, but as long as an animal is not endangered and is killed humanely, I don't really have an issue. My issue in THIS circumstance is that it was a mother and baby goat. I am simply not okay with killing during the fawning season or separating a mother and its baby. I think that was the issue a lot of people had as well. In fact, I thought one of the guys even said something about catching another random goat. 

 

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I think voting out Caleb was a really dumb choice for the tribe this early in the game, and I think Tai is a really dumb player. I know the show loves him based on the number of talking heads he gets but he's the reason I almost boycotted this season. Some may find his child-like persona endearing but I think he's just creepy and weird. For one thing I don't think he's very bright, and for another thing he seems to have been infantilized his whole life because of his size, and he just rolls with it, playing the man child. He talks like a five-year old, and it's not a language barrier thing either - he just acts like a small child. It isn't cute to me, it's just weird.

I agree with every word you said. Plus, on a completely shallow side - his little, caterpillar eyebrows bug the hell out of me. 

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2 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

They didn't leave it up to her though. Several people wanted to catch the goats. And after they caught them, they all sat down, discussed it, and took a vote. There was certainly no threatening or bullying or strong-arming or anything even remotely close to that on Sandra's part. 

And I really don't understand why so many people think Sandra is evil because she wanted to eat a goat. So did other people. And, unless you're a vegan, you have no reason at all to be upset. If you eat meat, you really don't have a leg to stand on here. (Generic "you", not anyone in particular) Why is it ok to eat the chickens but not the goat? And "honoring" the animal before you eat it (which they mention all the time on cooking shows) is just a bunch of BS people say to make themselves feel better. If you really wanted to honor the animal, you wouldn't eat it. I guess the hypocrisy just really bothers me. If you eat meat, you're just as "evil" as Sandra.

People here are mammalists.  Ok to kill birds and fish and clams and snails, but not a pig or a goat.  On the Alone forum, the reaction would be different.  And these are feral goats, not native to the island, and pretty destructive to native species.  They were also pretty tame if they could be caught with all the production crew around.

Sandra was willing to do the dirty work of cleaning, she just didn't know the best way to kill the goat.

After hating Culpepper on his other seasons, he actually did pretty good this episode. 

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17 hours ago, dbell1 said:

34 seasons, every episode watcher here and I would have been gone if the goats bit it.  Hell, I was worried Sandra was going to toss the cute kid into a pot of boiling water!  They're 9 days in, not 30. Queen is taken down by a kid. 

I'd rather never again watch Culpepper go island antique shopping, thanks show. Is he auditioning for HGTV? "Island Decor with Brad". 

Does anybody else think that Debbie looks like Iggy Pop?

I think she looks like Margaret Hamilton from Wizard of Oz 

the_wizard_of_oz_margaret_hamilton_7.jpg

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29 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

I think that was the issue a lot of people had as well. In fact, I thought one of the guys even said something about catching another random goat. 

JT said that and it makes absolutely no sense to me. Waiting for the baby to grow up and eating it then is ok? It's ok to eat a male goat but not a mama goat? What's the cut off age for when a goat is no longer considered a baby and you can eat it without being called a villain? The logic just escapes me. Either it's ok to eat meat or it isn't.

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16 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

JT said that and it makes absolutely no sense to me. Waiting for the baby to grow up and eating it then is ok? It's ok to eat a male goat but not a mama goat? What's the cut off age for when a goat is no longer considered a baby and you can eat it without being called a villain? The logic just escapes me. Either it's ok to eat meat or it isn't.

That, to me, is like saying well if it's okay to go to war and kill people it's okay to let fire at civillians in the street as it's still just killing people. There are rules of engagement. People who fish throw back fish below a certain size, and hunters don't intentionally kill a mother or her offspring.

Plus there's that bit about having a heart...

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I'm glad they didn't kill the goats.

Now for today's lesson. Goats are not native to the Pacific Islands. They were  brought by Westerners like Captain Cook and released to feed traveling explorers and others. 

Technically these are feral goats, descended from domesticated goats but now living in the wild.

Yes, production would have let them kill the goat because goats on Pacific Islands are considered an invasive species and their over population threatens native animals and vegetation.

I would have checked to see if Mama goat was still lactating and taken the milk.

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2 hours ago, green said:

My peeps!  My peeps!  As a vegetarian two things bother me the most regards the eating of meat.  Fellow vegetarians who get all sanctimonious over being morally superior about not eating meat and carnivores who get hypocritical about stuff like this goat thing.  As a veggie I have far more respect for hunters who actually "own" where meat comes from and are honest enough to kill, gut and dress their own. 

So I actually respect Sandra the most on her tribe.  She didn't know how to kill the goats but she said she would totally gut and dress the carcass which is far more bloody and gory a task.  She owned it as opposed to those other hypocrites there who were just as "blood thirsty" over goat-eating until, you know, they actually caught goats.  And she listened to the discussion and was fine with letting the goats go as well.

I am troubled that she gets such blow-back though.  This edit, though why people got upset at her is beyond me, probably does not bode well for her making it far in the game.  Because to me it is the edit of an honest person and so I don't see anything villainous about her at all.

 

2 hours ago, Giesela said:

Weird episode.  Have to agree that there must have been nothing going on to show to spend so much time on the JT raft thing and the goat thing.  Early days with so many people and so many tribes it is hard to capture any real strategy and alliance making.  Or mabe the alliance may have gelled so fast and its just a bit of boring see how things play out based on challenges IDK.  

I also agree it would have been great for Hali and Caleb to join up with Debbie and Tai or something.  Both fun and makes some sense.  The JT leaving them on the raft was funny but they dragged it out too much.  Something must have been happening on the other tribes?!?  More Cirie and Ozzy!!!

I didn't want to see the goats killed.  I also hate trophy hunting and don't eat veal or lamb. I freak about eating turtle. I would be a vegetarian if I wasn't so lazy and have always lacked any kind of self discipline.

Tai - wow way to just send your bud home.  Honestly I can see myself doing something just as stupid, you trying to hard, thinking I'm more smooth than than I am.  But I haven't been asked back on Survivor either.  I really wouldn't want to be in an alliance with him at this point even if I do still like him a lot on a personal level. 

I kind of wondered if Sierra and Hali were sandbagging and playing up their dislike but actually have a secret alliance.  But then I vaguely remembered something after reading along in Hali's thread.  

Interesting thought upstream about Sandra tgting previous winners solely to save her 2 win legacy title.  I can see it, go for the save, winning a third time would be a lottery bonus.

 

1 hour ago, Hera said:

He was very susceptible to suggestion in Kaôh Rōng, as well. I remember someone saying something similar about Woo in Cagayan—how, if Woo were a juror, then all one of the finalists would have to do to get his vote is be the last speaker and say, "So Woo, you're going to vote for me to win because that just makes sense, right?" I think this is equally applicable to Tai.

They're a fun group of people (though not as hilarious as the Casaya tribe in Panama—this group is too functional), which is probably why they got so much air time, despite winning immunity. I loved JT just ditching everyone on the raft so that he could go look for the idol on land and watching everyone's reactions as it dawned on them what was happening. I thought the debate around killing the goat was handled very maturely—Sandra wanted to kill it but admitted she wouldn't know how to do it (I don't think anyone likes the idea of someone learning how to kill an animal on the fly) but would help with gutting and cooking it, they discussed it and realized that no one else wanted to kill the goats they had caught (I loved Malcolm's line, "I mean it is the goat version of Bambi right now."), and Michaela suggested an alternative that seemed to be acceptable to everyone. Like I said, far too functional a group to be the next Casaya, but I enjoy them all the same and if I were playing Survivor, this is the sort of tribe I would hope to be on, not least because the combination of Michaela, Malcolm, and JT is a force to be reckoned with in tribal immunity challenges. Even the tribe with Ozzy couldn't keep up with them.

This is true and something that the "keep the tribe strong at all costs" proponents seem to forget. Tribal swaps seem to happen more often than not on recent seasons. Keeping someone around to "keep the tribe strong" could mean that they're the reason your reshuffled tribe goes to tribal council later. Not only that, but few people ever seem to appreciate that there's little sense in keeping "strong" players around on a tribe that loses immunity—it's not their like strength in the most recent immunity challenge helped their tribe avoid tribal council. I don't blame the perceived "strong" players for making this argument, but I do blame "weak" players for being swayed by it, since it essentially means signing up to go before the the "strong" ones.

I was surprised at the edit Brad Culpepper is getting this time around, too. He's far less hyper and overtly bossy. I guess he took his previous portrayal to heart. In his pre-game interviews, it was pretty clear that he wasn't happy with people's reactions to him or how he came across, so I guess he decided to dial things back a bit this time around. He's a lawyer too and gave Hali credit for the way she handled the questions put to her at Tribal Council. I wonder if he's angling for an alliance with her.

Speaking of people I didn't want to see back, but don't hate as much as I thought I would this time around, I laughed at Troyzan's confessional about not buying Andrea's attempts to placate him: "Come on, I'm 54 years old—I'm the oldest guy out here—and, you know, my intuition is good." Ah yes, the famed intuition of 54 year old men. Zeus didn't see One World and says Troyzan reminds him of Oscar Bluth, which makes him want Troyzan in the game. I enjoy that they're back to hiding idols at challenges, though since it's only happened on one other season (and not in the last two), I don't think it's occurring to other players to keep an eye on each other during challenges, which is a shame since I want someone to get caught finding one.

^^^ Agree with @Rachel RSL too.

They all wanted to eat it, but the whole "we shouldn't, Sandra is the only one who wants to, Sandra is a villain, lets vote" was seemed totally staged to me. Sandra is definitely getting voted out soon, they really are pushing the Villain thing with her this season. I didn't see any bullying from her, on this issue either. They made a decision as a group. I'm not particularly  a fan but I don't hate her either, and nothing she's done this season makes me change my view either way.

Tai, Caleb, Debbie and Hali really should have given more thought to joining together over Sierra and Brad. Like I said last week, the strong player argument doesn't work when you are always losing anyways. That just means your strong are not strong enough.

Casaya will forever and always be my favorite tribe! I love them.

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8 hours ago, fishcakes said:

I initially read that as, "I'm not thrilled to see all these goats running around in their underpants," and I wish there had been goats in underpants because that would have made this episode slightly less worthless.

Hated:
The whole goat segment.
Troy finding the HII.
Caleb, who I don't even like, getting voted out while annoying Debbie, utter waste of space Sierra, and Fuck You Brad Culpepper survive.

Puzzled by:
Everyone sitting on the raft going, "oh, JT left us out here. There is literally nothing we can do about it."
Tai rubbing sand all over his body.

Liked:
The bat.
The fancy striped lizard.

Liked: Don't forget the shark (?) with the stripe on its dorsal fin. They show a lot of footage of them swimming in the shallow waters. I wonder if they are foreshadowing a Survivor medical evacuation from shark bite. 

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6 hours ago, DEL901 said:

Also - Probst told EW that if they had decided to kill the goat production would have let them!!!!!!!!!

Edited 6 hours ago by DEL901.

Can you link to where you found that? I read one of Probst's interviews today but I didn't see that and I'm curious about it. Thanks!

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1 hour ago, violet and green said:

That, to me, is like saying well if it's okay to go to war and kill people it's okay to let fire at civillians in the street as it's still just killing people.

That's totally not an apt comparison at all. Eating meat you order in a restaurant is no different than eating meat when you're hungry on an island. Killing soldiers in war who are trying to kill you, on the other hand, is completely different than killing random civilians for no reason. Apples and oranges.

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Just now, Rachel RSL said:

That's totally not an apt comparison at all. Eating meat you order in a restaurant is no different than eating meat when you're hungry on an island. Killing soldiers in war who are trying to kill you, on the other hand, is completely different than killing random civilians for no reason. Apples and oranges.

Totally not an apt comparison! Oh, exsqueeze me. I think it totally is a totally apt comparison.

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Apparently the green tribe (I don't remember their name) is at the old millennial camp from last year.

(That both begs and answers a question about "Just how many islands in Fiji are they allowed to play Survivor on?" I guess the answer is "Not that many, if they're already recycling locations.")

ETA: Knowing that they are back on some of the exact same locations, it marginally explains the shipwreck theme -- that they are literally the  same places they were last year, so they can't really replicate those same themes without being repetitive (if they're using the same islands, for goodness sake!) But wow, what's going to happen thematically if Jeff gets his way and they film the rest of the seasons in Fiji?

Edited by Eolivet
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2 hours ago, dkb said:

Tai, Caleb, Debbie and Hali really should have given more thought to joining together over Sierra and Brad. Like I said last week, the strong player argument doesn't work when you are always losing anyways. That just means your strong are not strong enough.

It's just so much easier to play it safe. As soon as you start plotting a flip, you open yourselves up to revenge votes against you, especially if you have a wishy-washy player like Tai involved.

Let's say Debbie tries to get Tai onside to vote with Caleb and Hali. Tai's response might have been to just run off to Brad to tell him that Debbie was planning on flipping. Then Brad might have suggested to Tai, "Well screw Debbie, let's just vote her out then. She can't be trusted!" And who knows what Tai would do?

Much, much safer for Debbie to just sit on the numbers advantage for the next two votes.

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21 hours ago, susannot said:

I kinda love Michaela for wanting to pet the baby goat.  It was adorable. In Sandra's defense, she wasn't the only one who considered eating it.  Didn't JT say"It's meat?"  ITA that production never would have let them kill and eat a baby goat and it' smama.

regarding GoatGate. I personally wouldn't have had a problem with it because I didn't have a problem with Gervase + Romana and a rat,  Mike and the pig, and I didn't have a problem with Rich + Tom and the Sharks, or Stephanie and the ceremonial chicken, or whatever else people hunt down and stalk and eat. I don't eat animals/animal protein whatsoever, but I always find it fascinating to see people draw lines meat wise. JT got on Tai for being friendly with the chickens - but then couldn't eat a goat? (and I don't think Sandra had some nerve saying she needed someone to take care of the goat. she didn't know what to do, but offered to cook it after. Wasn't there a season (old-school survivor, might have been Thailand) where someone didn't know how to properly kill the chickens and it was suffering? so Jake was in charge of all chicken killing from then on out.). I get this is a total YMMV - but I just wanted to give my two cents here. 
 

Poor Caleb. at least he got voted out. 
JT needs subtitles. JT looks rough. he didn't look that rough before did he?

I am liking Brad (WHAT?!) this season. 
Ozzie + Cirie together is still funny, but if the ultimately end up working that would be cool. 

Why - if you are all thinking JT is lookin' for an idol are you all just chilling on the raft cool about it. GO BACK and keep an eye on him. 
so it looks like they are doing Survivor 31 immunity idols. which is cool. my biggest hope is that someone gets caught doing this. 

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7 hours ago, NutMeg said:

As for goat gate, I would have kept both at camp, because having milk would have been great (and a good + recurrent source of proteins) - plus the kid is cute and having cute animals around you decreases stress level. Therefore, less paranoia at camp :)

Of course!  slaps own forehead

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10 hours ago, Sugar said:

Wait, why was it ignorant and short-sighted? I'm a Michaela fan, but she had just outed herself as being smarter than the average bear, and they knew a merge was coming. Also, I would not want Michaela on any jury (too bitter), especially if I were Jay. You can hate the move because it got someone you like voted out, but I hardly think it was ignorant

As said in my original post....there was no guarantee the merge was the next episode. You do NOT vote out your strongest player who can help you win challenges...it's well... pretty ignorant really. They were fixated on the future when the present should have been more important.

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10 hours ago, NutMeg said:

As for goat gate, I would have kept both at camp, because having milk would have been great (and a good + recurrent source of proteins) - plus the kid is cute and having cute animals around you decreases stress level. Therefore, less paranoia at camp :)

 

 

Yes, yes!  I was wondering the same thing ... when they saw it was a nursing mother, wouldn't their immediate though have been about the milk?

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16 hours ago, jsm1125 said:

I thought I heard someone on JT's swapped tribe say that they were half a mile out into the ocean? Does that's mean that JT swam back half a mile with no raft? Or did I miss something? If not, that's pretty impressive. 

What was decidedly LESS impressive were his tribemates - who apparently thought they had no option except to bob in the waves like a discarded Coke bottle until J.T. chose to return.  What, they gave up swimming for Lent?

 

10 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

JT said that and it makes absolutely no sense to me. Waiting for the baby to grow up and eating it then is ok? It's ok to eat a male goat but not a mama goat? What's the cut off age for when a goat is no longer considered a baby and you can eat it without being called a villain? The logic just escapes me. Either it's ok to eat meat or it isn't.

Another point to consider: in most wild/feral mammal herds, the male/female ratio is usually skewed - sometimes heavily - towards the female.  The male's tendency is to mate many-to-one - and many may be injured or killed during rutting season, when males compete to see which will mate.  Killing only males may sound more humane in the immediate moment, but has a more significant negative impact on the herd in the long run.  Females don't have babies without males, and eventually the herd will die out.

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On 3/15/2017 at 9:51 PM, LanceM said:

RobC said on his podcast that when he was on his season production told them they could not kill and land based animals for food mainly due to the backlash that Survivor took when Mike killed the boar in season 2. He suspects, as I do, that those goats were not in any danger at all of being eaten.

Further downthread, someone said this is not the case, and I hope it's not.  I'm against eating the mama and baby, but all land based animals?  That's too namby-pamby.  And I do think it's hypocritical for people to be willing to buy factory-farmed meat, but be horrified by Survivor players killing animals (as long as they are not lactating or nursing mammals) for food in a humane way.  It's likely that JT would do a more humane job than your typical slaughterhouse.  And yes, I try to stick to meat that is humanely raised and slaughtered, as my local farmer likes to say "with a mouth full of grass".  (He comes up to his beef cows in the pasture when it's "their time", speaking softly and making sure none of the other cattle are around, and quickly pops 'em one through the brain, killing them instantly--so they never feel fear or stress, both of which he believes makes the meat taste worse.)

On 3/15/2017 at 11:25 PM, HappyDancex2 said:

Seriously Survivor...enough.  Starvation doesn't play well on tv...can u just give them more food at reward challenges and stop with the beheading crap?  I hate every minute of it.

This is funny, given all the talk we've heard about their being fed too much in recent years.  I'm more on your side, albeit for different reasons.

21 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Most of us just have more heart for our fellow mammals than we do for fowl, and more for fowl than we do for fish, and more for fish than for the dead cabbage plant.

Indeed.  Which is not hypocritical at all.  Even vegetarians take sustenance at the expense of living things.  (Plants have been detected to have something like a pain response.)  Staying further down the sentience hierarchy is perfectly rational and compassionate.

18 hours ago, 303420 said:

In my opinion, yes. 

Whoops, now I can't remember what this was in regard to.  (But I think I was going to say it was silly.)

17 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I'm always so puzzled by all the 'Hali only got cast again to fill the cute girl role' simply because she is not pretty to me.

Huh.  I find her more attractive than any of the other women this season.

13 hours ago, ghoulina said:

I disagree. I do not think eating goat is bad. I, personally, have no desire to eat it, but as long as an animal is not endangered and is killed humanely, I don't really have an issue. My issue in THIS circumstance is that it was a mother and baby goat. I am simply not okay with killing during the fawning season or separating a mother and its baby. I think that was the issue a lot of people had as well. In fact, I thought one of the guys even said something about catching another random goat.

Yes, this is how I felt.

13 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

JT said that and it makes absolutely no sense to me. Waiting for the baby to grow up and eating it then is ok? It's ok to eat a male goat but not a mama goat? What's the cut off age for when a goat is no longer considered a baby and you can eat it without being called a villain? The logic just escapes me. Either it's ok to eat meat or it isn't.

Do you feel the same about sex?  Age cutoffs are arbitrary, and it's either okay to have sex with someone at any age or it's not?

13 hours ago, violet and green said:

That, to me, is like saying well if it's okay to go to war and kill people it's okay to let fire at civillians in the street as it's still just killing people. There are rules of engagement. People who fish throw back fish below a certain size, and hunters don't intentionally kill a mother or her offspring.

Yes, this.  There are such things as "war crimes" even though regular non-criminal war is still pretty bad.

Edited by SlackerInc
Elaborated on a point
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23 hours ago, ghoulina said:

I didn't realize Caleb went out on only day 9 last time. I guess it's fitting that he went out again on the same day. I wasn't one who really disliked Caleb, but I wasn't a huge fan either. I can't say I will miss those bedazzled jeans, that's for sure. I do think if they wanted to break up the bro-mance, Tai would have been the better option, since he's not as strong in challenges. Although, with the way they're already switching tribes up, that might not even matter. And Tai does seem easily malleable. 

I think they didn't vote for Tai because Tai was on the same tribe as Brad and two more (can't remember their names) while Caleb and Hali were from another tribe. The vote was between Hali and Caleb in order to keep the four from the same tribe intact.

20 hours ago, Sugar said:

Also, on a shallow note - has Sierra had work done? Her face looks very off to me. Like she's had fillers in her face and lips. Not even going to mention The Eyebrows....

I was wondering about her lips - they looked fatter than last time, but thought maybe I didn't notice the first time. I agree it will be fun to see her eyebrows grow out.

Regarding the goats, it would not have been that easy to kill them. Someone would have to slit the goats' throats and I don't know if they have tools sharp enough to make it work on the first try, or if anyone is skilled enough to do a deep enough cut on the first try. Plus people would have to hold the animals down because they would wiggle a lot. Everybody close by would be splattered by the blood. If they killed the mother, then they'd have to kill the baby, too. The baby is probably eating plants by now, but it's most likely part of a larger group and babies without mothers are on the very bottom of the social order. No other mother will feed it and it will be shoved away by the others. I'd have to watch again to look at the mother's udder, but it looked like she was probably still nursing. The baby would probably be taken by a predator since it wouldn't have a protector any more. If just the baby was killed, the mother would wander around bleating and looking for it. She's get over it eventually but it would be tough for her for awhile. (I've spent a lot of time with sheep over the years and my guess is that goats are similar. I do know that goats like to run in packs, so it did seem odd to see only three goats running together and not more.)

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18 hours ago, Giesela said:

I kind of wondered if Sierra and Hali were sandbagging and playing up their dislike but actually have a secret alliance.  But then I vaguely remembered something after reading along in Hali's thread.  

I've been wondering this, too, - if their statements about not having anything to do with each other or caring about each other are decoy statements. There was something at tribal that made me think this. I'll have to go back and rewatch.

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18 hours ago, green said:

 

 

 

My peeps!  My peeps!  As a vegetarian two things bother me the most regards the eating of meat.  Fellow vegetarians who get all sanctimonious over being morally superior about not eating meat and carnivores who get hypocritical about stuff like this goat thing.  As a veggie I have far more respect for hunters who actually "own" where meat comes from and are honest enough to kill, gut and dress their own. 

So I actually respect Sandra the most on her tribe.  She didn't know how to kill the goats but she said she would totally gut and dress the carcass which is far more bloody and gory a task.  She owned it as opposed to those other hypocrites there who were just as "blood thirsty" over goat-eating until, you know, they actually caught goats.  And she listened to the discussion and was fine with letting the goats go as well.

I am troubled that she gets such blow-back though.  This edit, though why people got upset at her is beyond me, probably does not bode well for her making it far in the game.  Because to me it is the edit of an honest person and so I don't see anything villainous about her at all.

Personally, I don't really mind sanctimonious vegetarians, as long as they also refrain from buying clothes and other products that come from dead animals.  I disagree with them, but at least they can claim some sort of moral high ground when it comes to animals.

Omnivores (we put ketchup on our burgers and mushrooms on our steaks, so we are not carnivores) who hate hunting bother me much more as they are hypocritical.

That said, I don't think the tribe members who didn't want to kill the goats were being sanctimonious or hypocritical.

a) There were special ethical concerns due to the fact that it was a mother goat and her kid.  While it isn't really a true "hunting" situation as the goats appeared to be domesticated, ethical hunters don't kill mothers of nursing animals.  

b) Wasting game is also abhorrent to ethical hunters.  If they killed the mother, they probably would have gotten 40 or more pounds of meat, which 6 people could not have consumed before it spoiled.  I am not sure whether the kid was edible yet, but they would have had to kill it, if they killed the mother or it would have starved.

c) I didn't get that the others were condemning Sandra for wanting to kill the goats.  They just personally didn't think it was the right thing to do and/or didn't have the heart to do it.  We all have different scruples and sometimes they seem to conflict with our scruples in different areas.  But, IMO, as long as we don't condemn others for not sharing our scruples, it is not really hypocrisy.  

Sandra wanting to kill the goats didn't make me dislike her.  I already disliked her due to her arrogance and the way she talks to and treats the other tribe members.

BTW, did Sandra really offer to gut and clean the goat?  I might be remembering it wrong, but I thought she only described what she thought would have to be done with it.  I took it that she was expecting someone else to do all that as well. 

Edited by Bryce Lynch
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15 hours ago, Lukeysboat said:

Can you link to where you found that? I read one of Probst's interviews today but I didn't see that and I'm curious about it. Thanks!

I totally forgot to read JP's Q&A with EW which I usually always did so I'm glad I had the reminder in the original post. Here it is:

 

 

http://ew.com/tv/2017/03/16/survivor-jeff-probst-game-changers-tribe-swap/

From EW:

EW: So, let’s get into the whole goat situation. I realize it’s difficult to answer this on a full stomach, but what would you have done in that situation: eaten the mommy goat or let her go? And how much would your vote have depended on how the other people were voting?

Jeff: No question I couldn’t and wouldn’t kill either of the goats. I know it’s hypocritical given I’d be happy to eat one of the chickens. And I know it’s hypocritical given I’ll be having sushi tonight for dinner and steak later in the week. I am well aware that I am full of annoying contradictions, but in this case, it just didn’t seem fair. The only reason they caught the mom was because she was protecting the baby. It was an uneven playing field. But if the entire tribe wanted to kill the goat, then I would go along with it.

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58 minutes ago, FlyingEgret said:

 

I'm waiting for the first time a contestant (who has not found a clue) stops in the middle of an Immunity Challenge to look under all the tables/props for an Idol

 

Yes!! Considering this is the 3rd or 4th time they've done this "Idol at the Challenge" thing, you'd think a bunch of them would be checking out the props.  Maybe not in the heat of the competition, but certainly after their leg of the relay has been run or the whole challenge is decided.  I do enjoy the whole tension of it though.  Makes for good tv.

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35 minutes ago, Jolie said:

EW: So, let’s get into the whole goat situation. I realize it’s difficult to answer this on a full stomach, but what would you have done in that situation: eaten the mommy goat or let her go? And how much would your vote have depended on how the other people were voting?

Jeff: No question I couldn’t and wouldn’t kill either of the goats. I know it’s hypocritical given I’d be happy to eat one of the chickens. And I know it’s hypocritical given I’ll be having sushi tonight for dinner and steak later in the week. I am well aware that I am full of annoying contradictions, but in this case, it just didn’t seem fair. The only reason they caught the mom was because she was protecting the baby. It was an uneven playing field. But if the entire tribe wanted to kill the goat, then I would go along with it.

Ok, this I actually did see. My take on this is that Jeff was answering the question about what he would do if he were a player in the game. I didn't think that it indicated anything about what production would or would not allow.  I'm not trying to be argumentative, I was just looking for something that was more definitive. 

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I wonder if it ever occurred to any of the tribe that the goats might belong to a farmer across the hill? I'm the type that when I see stray livestock, I try to find out who it belongs to. Around here, it happens. Why would goats be living on an abandoned island? I know that the camps are not all that far from civilization to make it easier for the crew to get from point A to point B. They are not the only people on the islands out there.

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1 hour ago, FlyingEgret said:

I'm waiting for the first time a contestant (who has not found a clue) stops in the middle of an Immunity Challenge to look under all the tables/props for an Idol

the idol is only placed if the player has a clue. 

48 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

BTW, did Sandra really offer to gut and clean the goat?  I might be remembering it wrong, but I thought she only described what she thought would have to be done with it.  I took it that she was expecting someone else to do all that as well. 

she said that she didn't know how to kill it (properly) but she'd dress it and clean the carcass  and cook. basically do her share. 

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17 hours ago, MrsR said:

I would have checked to see if Mama goat was still lactating and taken the milk.

If she was and you took the milk, how would the baby survive?

16 hours ago, Lukeysboat said:

Can you link to where you found that? I read one of Probst's interviews today but I didn't see that and I'm curious about it. Thanks!

So, let’s get into the whole goat situation. I realize it’s difficult to answer this on a full stomach, but what would you have done in that situation: eaten the mommy goat or let her go? And how much would your vote have depended on how the other people were voting?
No question I couldn’t and wouldn’t kill either of the goats. I know it’s hypocritical given I’d be happy to eat one of the chickens. And I know it’s hypocritical given I’ll be having sushi tonight for dinner and steak later in the week. I am well aware that I am full of annoying contradictions, but in this case, it just didn’t seem fair. The only reason they caught the mom was because she was protecting the baby. It was an uneven playing field. But if the entire tribe wanted to kill the goat, then I would go along with it.

http://ew.com/tv/2017/03/16/survivor-jeff-probst-game-changers-tribe-swap/

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I'm warming up to this season.  

On goat killing:  They made a smart decision.  In this age of social media, the condemnation would be swift and severe. The whole mama/baby dynamic is just too emotionally powerful.  Especially with four chickens available.  Once those chickens are gone, those goats will be a lot easier to kill come day 27 or so.  They should try and catch a male one which I imagine would be much more difficult.

I have no qualms with killing for food.  I watch all the Alaska shows (except that totally fake BS Alaskan Bush People).  These "subsistence" people intrigue me.  They prattle on about their "freedom" to kill their food every day, while constantly whining and worrying about it.  I don't think that is freedom at all.  I appreciate my freedom to go to the grocery store a couple times a week and pay somebody to nicely dress and package my meat. 

Where their flour, sugar, coffee, tea, liquor, salt, pepper, etc. comes from never seems to get mentioned.

I liked the return of the spice rack in tonight's episode.  Tasty food is good for morale,

It only took two buckets to drop the gate?

Nice grab Troyzan!  He played that very, very well.  Keep it to yourself!

Hali was the obvious boot, but!  Take out Caleb to whack Tai?  Does strength matter that much in an all-star game knowing how fluid any "tribal loyalty" is?  I would have booted Tai.  He's just so annoying and so unpredictable.  I guess Brad (spit) thinks he can control him.

Very windy tribal council.  I didn't notice Sierra's eyebrows last time.  I hope she lasts long enough so I can see the bush out.

BOOM!  Well done Hali and Sierra.  "Not, poor little me!  Take out the big dude with friends."

Ahh!  cui buono?,  "Who benefits?"

I did a little searching and discovered goat hunting is a big deal in New Zealand and other parts of the South Pacific.  

http://www.sctrophyhunting.com/goats-hunting-goat-new-zealand-mcbride-spey-wild-south-pacific-charter-guides-lodge-kaikoura-newzealand.php

It seems lots of animals were set loose by sailors back in the day so there would be food later for themselves or other travelers.  Of course, the native species were hurt by this.  The governments have been trying to eradicate them for a long time.

An interesting link to a Robinson Crusoe story.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/trapped-on-a-pacific-island-scientists-research-the-real-robinson-crusoe-a-605963.html

Ex:  "Selkirk was not the first person to live there. In 1575, Spanish explorers brought goats to the island, and subsequent ships brought cats and rats, as well as radishes and parsnips. Selkirk tamed feral cats so that they would defend him against the rats that nibbled on his feet at night. But a herd of wild goats became his greatest source of amusement.

Hunting goats became a sport for Selkirk. He learned to outrun them and throw them to the ground while running. He released many of them but, as he told his rescuers, he killed 500 goats for their meat and skins. He even recorded each goat he killed."  He was there 4+ years.

Some goat info:  http://www.scirecordbook.org/feral-goat-south-pacific/

ex:  "Now widely established in Australia, New Zealand and many South Pacific islands, feral goat populations persist despite long-term government programs to eradicate them."

I notice one, maybe two of the camps are located a good climb up from the beach.  That seems different.  They are usually right on the edge of the woods at the beach.  Maybe there are big tidal swings there.

Made me think of Rupert's disastrous dugout shelter that got flooded at high tide.  A top 10 ROFL moment!

14 minutes ago, DEL901 said:

If she was and you took the milk, how would the baby survive?

I was wondering the same thing.  I know next to nothing about farm animals so I have no idea how much milk one goat is going to produce.

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1 hour ago, DEL901 said:

If she was and you took the milk, how would the baby survive?

It depends on if it's a dairy goat. Like dairy cows, they produce extra milk so there is enough for baby and for others. But you have to know the specific breed. The size of the udder might be a giveaway, too. (Dairy cows have much bigger udders than beef cows.)  If the goat is feral, my guess is that it's not since the extra milk is painful for the mother if she's not milked, and I believe udder stimulation produces extra milk (like from a baby nursing and from a milking machine or hand milking), so without the additional stimulation the udder would not create more milk than needed for the baby. The baby is probably eating plants, too, but still nursing. The mother will gradually wean it off as it eats more and more shrubbery.

Those of you with experience with farm animals please feel free to correct me on anything!

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