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S01.E05: Once Bitten

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Just now, Keepitmoving said:

You know what? I'm thinking that was a flashback and it may have been a flash forward of the night that the murder of who we don't know yet, took place. Jane strikes me as the type who would recycle a dress, although not the dress she got raped in...yeah, I'm back to being confused again, LOL.

It looked to me like the trivia night, so yeah, a flash forward.  There were some quick sex-like scenes cut in toward the end so those might've been of the rape?  Hard for me to tell.  I can't really see her dress, either.  

I think the blue dress she runs on the beach in after the rape has a shoulder strap torn, so I don't think she'd wear it again.  I don't think it'd be prom-looking without the torn strap making it look asymmetrical.  

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25 minutes ago, Keepitmoving said:

No your not the only one, I mentioned this as one of the things she does to deal with that pent up anger/rage she has from being raped. At times she looks like she considers what would happen if I just keep running right over the cliff, then she has that raging music with all the cuss words to accompany her on those runs. Like I said, when she came in from her run she looked like she was not only trying to catch her breath from the run but also trying to catch it from all that rage, then she bent over and started crying. I too get the running and it doesn't bother me either. 

So based on the flashbacks, did I not see Jane in the dress she got raped in, along with some other people from the community like the African-American guy and the Asian-American woman at the same party? Wait a minute, where exactly was she living when she was raped, not in Monterey right?

Huh?

I thought it was obvious that was the night of the party when the murder took place. Didn't she wear the same thing during the opening sequence?

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I'd also like to make note that the episode in which Jane has that hallucination or nightmare that her rapist is breaking into her house, her vision of the rapist looked nothing like the interior decorator. It was dark but not dark enough for me not to notice that he had more hair and wasn't even dressed in a suit. It looked like he had on a light jacket that an average Joe would wear, not a suit jacket. He also looked like he had more hair  than the interior decorator guy. I remember finding that interesting since all her other visions have been with him in a suit. I remember thinking after that scene that maybe someone else besides the rapist was after her all because he guy breaking in looked nothing like the rapist I had been seeing in her visions.

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Kristen Stewart might have been better.  Tighter, angrier.  But Shailene is adequate.  Hopefully she learns.

  I'm cool with Shailene but as a Kristen Stewart fan I LOVE this suggestion and am now picturing it. I've been intrigued by her ever since The Runaways. Then I saw her in Still Alice and Clouds of Sils Maria and finally realized how talented she is. She would knock that jittery, hidden depths thing that Shailene has to do in this out of the park. 

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I dig some of the music and camera work.  It does add a tension to the show the book lacked.  But I hate almost all the music and I haven't recognized one song.  It is all ugly and discordant.  

I think we may be experiencing David E. Kelly’s pop sensibilities, which would make sense seeing as how it’s his show. The music often skews a little baby boomer for my taste (Otis Redding, Big Brother & the Holding Company, Martha Wainwright), but so far I have heard a lot of more modern stuff I like, too (PJ Harvey, Sufjan Stevens, B-52s, Death in Vegas.)

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I've been a bit appalled at some of the insensitive comments on this board, especially given how many posters have shared how Celeste's story relates to their own experiences or those of their loved ones. I appreciate everyone who's willing to share and try to help others understand.

I have too, but I've been trying to chalk it down to ignorance about the realities of domestic abuse rather than insensitivity or victim blaming. 

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7 minutes ago, mochamajesty said:

Huh?

I thought it was obvious that was the night of the party when the murder took place. Didn't she wear the same thing during the opening sequence?

I don't know, I haven't watched the opening sequence closely enough? 

 

7 minutes ago, mochamajesty said:

Huh?

I thought it was obvious that was the night of the party when the murder took place. Didn't she wear the same thing during the opening sequence?

It is? I hadn't noticed because I haven't watched or rather, paid attention to all of the opening sequence from start to finish.  I'm also focused on who raped her and I can't remember what she said about meeting him, so I just assumed it was at a party. Plus I saw that same blue color on her in this flash, that she had on the night she was raped and I immediately thought of that instead of this is a party in the future that they flashing to.

Did she explain to Maddie how and where she met him?

Edited by Keepitmoving
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Did she explain to Maddie how and where she met him?

She said they met at a bar and then went to a hotel.  I assumed those scenes with the electric shade were at the hotel.  And yes the opening sequence shows them all as Audrey on trivia night.  Jane went in the classic black sheath with opera length black gloves and a tiara.  As did Celeste.

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1 hour ago, Keepitmoving said:

In Renata's defense, this biting my kid is some bullshit. I would be flipping the fuck out, but on the school personnel.

If I were Jane, I would have dragged a lawyer into the school with me. Nothing puts a school's administration on notice faster than a visit from an attorney. Generally, I'm not on board with parents who do this because they refuse to accept the notion that their gentle snowflake could possibly do something mean, but there is so much at stake with Renata's baseless accusations, including Ziggy's academic future. This kind of crap can follow a kid around for years.

40 minutes ago, Lemons said:

The dress she had on looked like a teen prom type dress. Where exactly did she meet this somewhat older guy while wearing this dress?  The hotel was ocean front. Where was it?

Maybe it was a prom dress. Perhaps the prom took place at a seaside hotel ballroom and Jane met the rapist somewhere in the hotel, hallway, restaurant, outside on the porch, looking at the ocean? Certainly the timeline would be correct. Pregnant in the spring, Ziggy is six years old and Jane is 25.

Edited by Auntie Anxiety
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2 hours ago, Cardie said:

The other three moms have guilty secrets. For symmetry's sake, Renata should have one too. Unless she is in fact abusing her own child, I have no clue what hers might be and there are only two episodes to go. I suppose severe bullying or physical abuse as a child might qualify.

She's not really parallel to them, though. Renata is the agitator in this story, whereas Madeline, Celeste and Jane are the protagonists. So I don't expect her story to follow the same structure.

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On 3/20/2017 at 7:44 AM, Lana X said:

I dont understand how amabella keeps having issues with a classmates like biting and nobody else sees it. that is baffling to me!

I have a bit of a problem with this too.  They are supposed to be first graders and most kids do not bite by first grade so it would be a big deal and I think painful enough that someone would have noticed at the time (there would be yelling and crying).  Unless this is happening to her at playdates and not at the school.  The twins seem to be the obvious choice because of Perry so a twist would be either Chloe or the sweet little step-sister (Rain??  Skye??) that are the bullies.

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The twins seem to be the obvious choice because of Perry so a twist would be either Chloe or the sweet little step-sister (Rain??  Skye??) that are the bullies.

Or whoever the dark haired boy is poking at the dead squirrel.

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On 3/19/2017 at 11:03 PM, isiscloud said:

Wow! Great episode. So packed with things.

Renata just happening to show up "early" and barging in. It's one thing to want to make sure that your child is protected, but she isn't the only one involved here. Jane handing her a Kleenex was sad.

Speaking of Jane. Get a grip, lady. Smoking in the car and running red lights and confronting your potential baby daddy with a loaded gun in your car? Not smart. My gaydar isn't as sharp, but he definitely isn't Ziggy's dad.

Celeste. Wow. I felt for Nicole playing this role, especially knowing about the pregnancy issues she had with Tom Cruise. I was hoping that when she was driving up to the airport that she was going away with the boys; but nope. It's not her fault and I hope that she can get out before Perry does kill her. Interesting to see the escalation. I don't think that he would have beat her when she was pregnant, but who knows.

Wanted to give Maddy a big hug after her accident.

I saw this as suicidal behavior.

On 3/19/2017 at 11:10 PM, Kell said:

Yeah, can't figure out why Amabella is not talking... granted mom is a schitzo but still...   is she maybe doing it for attention?  Her parents seem like super busy executives... 

Usually kids keep quiet about abuse when the abuser threatens to kill or hurt his or her parents.

On 3/20/2017 at 9:37 AM, teddysmom said:

Yes she definitely got the trickiest role and is giving a master class in acting.   I have a friend who is trying to get up the nerve to get out of a loveless marriage, no abuse or anything, just realization her husband has no desire to be a father to her daughter , or a husband. He only wants to work come home late and get drunk.  She blames herself for him being a drunk. 

She's watching BLL and I'm terrified she's seeing Celeste hanging onto her marriage and thinking, well at least I don't have it this bad. 

I do wonder if Kidman is drawing on her marriage to Cruise. Not that he hit her, but considering why she & Katie left him, I can see that it would be very tricky to get out of that entanglement.  And I'm sure there had to be a long while where she denied all that Scientology insanity. 

Me, too.  She is just knocking it out of the park IMO. A little thing that caught me was when she started to get up as if to leave,  as if she were offended, then slowly just sat back down again. 

On 3/20/2017 at 0:44 PM, Auntie Anxiety said:

I was so confused when they showed a just a frame of some young kids kneeling over a dead squirrel(?). I thought that maybe Amabella had been bitten by a rabid rodent! Those flashbacks/montages makes it difficult for me to decipher what the hell is imagined and what is "real."

Yeah, I was wondering about the comment Dr. Calamity Jane (hehe) when Celeste called their sexual encounters "lovemaking." Dr. CJ said that at least Celeste refers to it as "lovemaking" and that is a positive, but lovemaking as opposed to what? Rape? Because I find the sex between them isn't really sex at all because it is fueled by rage and violence. YMMV

I think she could have said "when we have sex," or "when we are together" or some other euphemism. But making love is most definitely what it is NOT, but she can't cope with the reality. I think she's brave to even say that she knows their "lovemaking" is disordered.

On 3/20/2017 at 2:53 PM, BeatrixK said:

In one abuse survivors support group I am in, it's likened to a frog in a pan full of water -- you can put the frog in a boiling pot, and frog immediately jumps out, because there is a shock to the system from the immediate change that says 'too hot, dangerous, react.'

You put a frog in a pot of room temperature water, and slowly bring it up to a boil, THEN the frog becomes so accustomed to the gradual increase in temperature that they will get killed, since the escalation to danger is so gradual that the nerves 'adust', regardless of whether or not they are actually adjusting to something dangerous.

 

Oh -- and, for the record...I would stone cold murder someone if it meant I could get Maddy's black floral cardigan.  I loved that.

Did anyone else notice that a button was undone? 

On 3/20/2017 at 4:15 PM, pbutler111 said:

She didn't hesitate to spend thousands on the suit she bought for her meeting with the mayor, and she didn't try to hide it from  him.

I'm sure she can get her hands on cash. Just buy an expensive garment with a debit card, then return it for cash, for example.

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5 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:
7 hours ago, pbutler111 said:

I'm not getting what them being moms has to do with anything. There are a lot of actresses on TV series who are also moms.

You'd have to ask the person who originally posted about several of the actresses on this being moms who probably wouldn't want to commit to filming another season. I was just replying to their statement to clarify that since two of the lead actresses on this show who are moms are also producers, they would have more power to decide whether they want to film a second season (as opposed to any of the other cast members who are not producers).

That was my post. I meant the actresses whose characters are the mothers in Big Little Lies: Shailene Woodley, Nicole Kidman, Reese Witherspoon, Laura Dern, and Zoë Kravitz. My point was that each of these actresses tend to do more work in film than on TV (not counting guest spots on TV shows), which I speculated would make them less likely to want to sign for future seasons of this show (if it were to have any), since it would necessarily mean doing fewer films. It was not in any way a comment on their personal lives.

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If I were Jane, I would have dragged a lawyer into the school with me. Nothing puts a school's administration on notice faster than a visit from an attorney. Generally, I'm not on board with parents who do this because they refuse to accept the notion that their gentle snowflake could possibly do something mean, but there is so much at stake with Renata's baseless accusations, including Ziggy's academic future. This kind of crap can follow a kid around for years.

I agree with this too, since the TPTB don't have a damn thing under control, everyone needs to cover their own asses. 

Ziggy seems like an easy target for the Renata's of the world, so I agree.

I'm also still not ruling out the idea I made in a previous post of whether or not Renata was sick enough to be doing this to her daughter herself just to get attention. I don't know she could have a case of that condition where parents purposely make their kids sick, I forgot what it's called. I mean at this point, we should have seen her take her kid to the pediatrician and then a therapist. At least Jane took the teacher's advice and did that for her son.

I don't know what the hell is going, it's all very weird.

Whoever posted above that it's pretty annoying that, that bite mark wasn't used to clear Ziggy,  I agree, it's frustrating. And this is where one would get annoyed at Jane's laid back persona, because the Renata and Maddie personas of the world would have brought that up. But no, sweet Jane, who I do like, I like Jane, is handing Renata tissues. I know it's in part because Jane isn't sure Ziggy didn't do anything, she's second guessing, the possibility is in the back of her mind. 

Edited by Keepitmoving
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Renata made the statement " I wanted to take her to a psychiatrist, but you wanted to fuck me in the bathroom ", or something like that.

I have no idea why Renata did not take Amabella on her own. 

Wasn't it clear the choking happened at school? The bite could have happened anywhere but the mark on neck would have garnered attention had it happened prior to orientation.

Edited by mochamajesty
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3 minutes ago, mochamajesty said:

Renata made the statement " I wanted to take her to a psychiatrist, but you wanted to fuck me in the bathroom ", or something like that.

I have no idea why Renata did not take Amabella on her own. 

Wasn't it clear the choking happened at school? The bite could have happened anywhere but the mark on neck would have garnered attention.

If she takes her to a pediatrician, the pediatrician might have to report it, it looks like abuse of some kind and they are legally bound to report it.

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3 minutes ago, Keepitmoving said:

If she takes her to a pediatrician, the pediatrician might have to report it, it looks like abuse of some kind and they are legally bound to report it.

Renata said psychiatrist I believe. And if they report it I would not consider that a bad thing. They want to get to the bottom of it and the school is certainly not doing anything.

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2 minutes ago, mochamajesty said:

Renata said psychiatrist I believe. And if they report it I would not consider that a bad thing. They want to get to the bottom of it and the school is certainly not doing anything.

Me neither, but would Renata? That's why I mentioned it as a reason why she hasn't gotten her to a doctor. 

Because like I said, I'm siding eyeing her, I don't know about her at all in all this.

Now let's see if she's taken her to a doctor in this next episode, before she starts a damn petition to get Ziggy expelled. She's taking actions without any solid proof of who is abusing her kid except for one child's word against another and that is not enough. Yeah, take Amabella to the doctor and let's get us some concrete scientific evidence  going here.

Edited by Keepitmoving
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3 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

In Renata's defense, this biting my kid is some bullshit. I would be flipping the fuck out, but on the school personnel. I'm not approaching any parents by myself and getting in any one's face in an accusatory tone, not good. But if that school doesn't get their shit together, I'm calling the cops,  and/or the local news station if the school doesn't nip it in the bud. Because this is straight up assault. This cannot happen, unless the school lacks the adequate amount of faculty to monitor those kids. What the hell? Good lord these kids are in what first grade! They're babies, what's going to happen when they get to fourth grade, if the school can't monitor them in the early childhood grades?

That's been my problem with this - it isn't bullying, it's assault.

2 hours ago, kj4ever said:

So was anyone else disappointed that the bite mark wasn't used to clear poor Ziggy?  I mean seriously that little kid has some jacked up teeth and one look at that bite mark with the perfect little teeth marks would show it wasn't him.

Maybe I watched to much Law and Order SUV in the 2000's, but it seems like a no freakin' brainer to me.

Jane doesn't seem to have the energy to work to clear Ziggy - she didn't refer the school the to psychiatrist(psychologist?) the teacher recommended. She's been pretty passive about the whole thing. I guess because of her doubts, but still. I can't imagine just letting it go like that, especially since she seems like a pretty decent mother all in all.

2 hours ago, Lemons said:

I can't figure that out either. The dress she had on looked like a teen prom type dress. Where exactly did she meet this somewhat older guy while wearing this dress?  The hotel was ocean front. Where was it?

There is a lovely, fancy, ocean front hotel in Monterey (it might even be called the Monterey Hotel, I don't remember). It was way too expensive for us to stay there, but we had the most expensive breakfast I've ever had there once. Was kinda worth it.

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Just now, Keepitmoving said:

Me neither, but would Renata? Because like I said, I'm siding eyeing her, I don't know about her at all in all this.

I wasn't suspicious before, but looking  at her odd behavior...

You would think that for someone like her going to the authorities would be a given. Especially since her daughter supposedly fingered the culprit.

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 I still can't get over the school beginning with the public way the teacher went about having Amabella point out her "abuser." WTF was that? No good, not the way to do something like that. Now, we have yet to see the school try to figure out if there were any other little witnesses to this abuse. You  mean to tell me no other little girls/boys saw any of this, NOTHING?

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19 minutes ago, mochamajesty said:

Wasn't it clear the choking happened at school? The bite could have happened anywhere but the mark on neck would have garnered attention.

The choking was at that open house at the school I believe, the day before their first day of school. The thing Perry beat Celeste up over because she didn't tell him that was his only chance to go meet the teacher. I'm guessing the kids were off playing while the parents were meeting with teachers which is probably how the incident went unseen. The bite could have happened at any time that day, I'm assuming someone helps Amabella change or bath and would have noticed it if it happened the day before.

I hope Renata does finally take Amabella to therapy. The poor kid is being physically assaulted and is too afraid of whoever is doing it to say their name. She needs someone safe to talk to.

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7 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

 Kristen Stewart might have been better.  Tighter, angrier.  

When I read the book I pictured a "young Lori Petty" otherwise known as Kit from A League of their Own.  So I really like your suggestion.

It's not just about looks though. I don't buy Shailene's demeanor.  

4 hours ago, OldButHappy said:

I decided to check out the Reddit subs on this series - the most surprising thing, for me, was that Shailene's performance received much more praise than did any of the other actresses'.  So maybe it's a generational thing - that her disaffected personae feels flat to older viewers but rings true to millennials.

Not for me.  I guess it makes sense that young women would gravitate towards younger actors - it's like on social media when it's obvious that SOME teens like Ariana Grande and Nicki Minaj without having respect or respect for their predecessors (SOME - I hate generational generalizations) - But I liked actors like Whoopi Goldberg and Meryl Streep even when I was 12 (22 years ago) so I always chalk it up to the personality rather than the generation.  

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5 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

When I read the book I pictured a "young Lori Petty" otherwise known as Kit from A League of their Own.  So I really like your suggestion.

It's not just about looks though. I don't buy Shailene's demeanor.  

What do you mean? Because Shailene, talks and has those laid back mannerisms in real life. Heck she seems laid back even while protesting, because she was up front and center during this past election season. Protesting for one cause or another and even her raised voice isn't really all that raised to me LOL. She seriously comes off as laid back, chill, and yes, have a puff or two. I think that's why I buy her in the role, and also because I think that's what they wanted in the role.

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Why would someone's real life persona being the same as their acting persona convince you that they're a good actor? It should be the exact opposite.  If she's the same in real life as she is on the show, then chalk that up as ANOTHER reason why I'm not impressed by the performance.  I'm not convinced by her acting on the show, I don't like her look for the established canon character, and I don't like her demeanor for what I think the character is meant to portray.  And, it's subjective.

If Jane is a traumatized rape victim (not all people who have experienced rape feel traumatized nor see themselves victims, but look at Jane's actions as prescribed by the script: the night terrors, the screaming, the jumpiness, and the gun), I don't personally agree that "laid back and chill" is the right 'vibe' for the character.   I've also read the book and so I am biased in that way too.

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On 3/20/2017 at 6:37 AM, CofCinci said:

You're welcome.  Laws vary from state to state but very little is done to protect in situations of IPV.  There are many therapists who will not work with couples.  Perry could state in session that he is going to go home and slap or punch Celeste - and there is nothing the therapist can do except to advise Perry to not do so and to created a safety plan with him and Celeste.  If he says he is going to cut off a portion of her pinky to punish her - is that homicidial ideation to warrant a report to police? No, not in my state.

But once children are involved -- these ethical gray areas become brighter and easier to understand.  Now, if Celeste were to state that the children observed Perry harming her or that he harmed the children, then the therapist would be obligated to contact child protective authorities -- in all states. 

Dr. Calamity Jane's client is the couple.  She was not practicing ethically by seeing Celeste alone - unless the session was discussed by the couple and clinician and was relevant to the treatment plan.  The clinician should inform Perry of deviations from the treatment plan (even though he is a creep). 

Exploring these ethical situations in classes and workshops is always fun but there is a sadness and heartbreak within the reality of these relationships.  The therapist is often as powerless as the victim. 

Ah, that's interesting to know. I'm familiar with mandatory reporting when it comes to suspected abuse of minors and elders, as well as the duty to warn with Tarasoff laws - but there seems to be a black hole in the legal code when it comes to violence for persons aged 18-65. 

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One way they could have gone, but didn't, would be to have Jane's memories of the rape repeatedly triggered by Ziggy.

Of course nobody would bring it up now but you'd think some members of her family would have suggested how difficult it would be to bear and raise a child resulting from a rape.

It would probably be too political and detract from an already good plot.

Jane has been trying to suppress the event, especially when Ziggy keeps asking about his father.  But the more she tries to push it down, the more it rushes up and she can't seem to deal.

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1 minute ago, scrb said:

One way they could have gone, but didn't, would be to have Jane's memories of the rape repeatedly triggered by Ziggy.

Of course nobody would bring it up now but you'd think some members of her family would have suggested how difficult it would be to bear and raise a child resulting from a rape.

It would probably be too political and detract from an already good plot.

Jane has been trying to suppress the event, especially when Ziggy keeps asking about his father.  But the more she tries to push it down, the more it rushes up and she can't seem to deal.

Jane told Madeline that she was the first person she told about the night she was raped. Perhaps she hinted at it to her family but it doesn't sound like she told them the details.

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2 minutes ago, scrb said:

Of course nobody would bring it up now but you'd think some members of her family would have suggested how difficult it would be to bear and raise a child resulting from a rape.

That's probably what Jane's rift with her family is about.

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My main issue with Jane is that half the time she acts like someone who hasn't experienced any trouble in her life and is just kind of coasting, just...there. It is why someone's thought that she has a trust fund or something makes sense to me. She just doesn't seem to be a young, struggling single mother.  Every once in a while she'll get a really strong scene, but most of the time she seems bored with everything (which could be a Millennial thing lol). Maybe she's meant to be compartmentalizing, which is a lot easier to convey in print than on screen. 

I can't say that's Shailene's acting verses how she's being directed because I didn't actually read the book so I don't know what Jane is supposed to be like. But Jane just seems more like a plot point or catalyst to everything that happens than a living, breathing person to me. It just makes her character the hardest for me to connect with or feel for.

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3 hours ago, violetr said:

  I'm cool with Shailene but as a Kristen Stewart fan I LOVE this suggestion and am now picturing it. I've been intrigued by her ever since The Runaways. Then I saw her in Still Alice and Clouds of Sils Maria and finally realized how talented she is. She would knock that jittery, hidden depths thing that Shailene has to do in this out of the park. 

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IMO, Kristen is too beautiful.  Jane is supposed to be drab and mousy, so that Maddy takes pity on her and adopts her as  a project.  Cannot imagine Maddy ever adopting Kristen as a needy stray.

Edited by susannot

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Why would someone's real life persona being the same as their acting persona convince you that they're a good actor?

IMO it doesn't. Who said she was a good actress? I know I certainly don't think she stands out as an actress, she's just there, and Jane comes off like she's just there. She comes off most of the time like she doesn't have the energy. But I agree, if you're playing a character like your real self than IMO, you're not stretching your acting muscles. But that's not my point with this character, my point is, the character's demeanor happens to match the demeanor of the actress IMO, and that I happen to buy the character of Jane the way she's being played. While others see it as bad casting or that they could have cast someone better, I don't see it that way. I too have watched things and said to myself that an actor just doesn't seem to fit, and I don't find that to be the case with the actress who is playing Jane. It just so happens that from what I've seen off camera, the actress comes off as laid back as Jane, so she knows how to play this persona, because it's hers.

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23 minutes ago, susannot said:

IMO, Kristen is too beautiful.  Jane is supposed to be drab and mousy, so that Maddy takes pity on her and adopts her as  a project.  Cannot imagine Maddy ever adopting Kristen as a needy stray.

Again, subjective, Kristen really fits the plain Jane type to me, whereas Shailene looks so contemporary.  Shailene is in no way plain to me.  Her eyebrows really stand out and I've never seen anyone who looks like her before.  Kristen reminds me of a lot of other actors, like Teresa Palmer, etc. so it's a look I've seen many times and she kind of blends in.

Speaking of lookalikes, the actor portraying Abigail reminds me of Amber Heard. 

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Thinking a stunt woman took over the role of Celeste when the character was getting smashed so violently into the couch.

Alexander Skarsgård plays the psychopathic abuser too well...makes me uncomfy.

No warm+fuzzy "Tom Hanks" roles in his future.

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If I were Jane, I would have dragged a lawyer into the school with me. Nothing puts a school's administration on notice faster than a visit from an attorney. Generally, I'm not on board with parents who do this because they refuse to accept the notion that their gentle snowflake could possibly do something mean, but there is so much at stake with Renata's baseless accusations, including Ziggy's academic future. This kind of crap can follow a kid around for years.

I did wish that she had gotten Celeste on board with that.  I realize that Jane is pretty tough, but I also think like Renata is just a bulldozer, and it's very difficult to be the subject of her tirades.

I thought the scenes with Celeste and her therapist were great.  I did enjoy that the therapist calmly and methodically broke down Celeste's defenses, and helped her on the path to see what she needs to do (and particularly getting her away from her false equivalence bs).   

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1 minute ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Again, subjective, Kristen really fits the plain Jane type to me, whereas Shailene looks so contemporary.  Shailene is in no way plain to me.  Her eyebrows really stand out and I've never seen anyone who looks like her before.  Kristen reminds me of a lot of other actors, like Teresa Palmer, etc. so it's a look I've seen many times and she kind of blends in.

http://www.teen.com/2015/07/04/celebrities/kristen-stewart-lookalikes-celebrity-doppelgangers/

I agree, Kristen does fit the plain Jane type. I posted earlier that I find Shailene's eyes to be more expressive. I've seen this Kristen girl on tv, on red carpets only and I get nothing from her and I don't find her to be strikingly beautiful at all. She looks like just another attractive girl on street, not head turner or anything IMO. There's nothing uniquely beautiful about her face, nor her hair for that matter. She's not too beautiful to play the role to me.

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4 hours ago, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

Small gripe: Nicole Kidman's wig situation has been really uneven throughout the series so far.

And I had no idea she was wearing a wig!  

28 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

 

Speaking of lookalikes, the actor portraying Abigail reminds me of Amber Heard. 

I think she looks like Kate Winslet too.  The eyes / nose combo.  I really like her and will look for her in other projects. She is so sensible.  It is refreshing. 

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Kristen S would never work. She has a career because of who her parents are. Yes, I've seen her in more than Twilight. I like that Shailene has a softness. Someone else mentioned that she has a babyface where everyone else is angular, face-wise. It adds a youth factor and innocence.

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19 hours ago, JBC344 said:

I think it would be interesting if they did this as an anthology series with taking this same cast and having them do another adaptation of Liane's other books.  I wouldn't mind seeing this same cast tackle The Husband's Secret.

That would be unbelievably cool. The third season could be The Hypnotist's Love Story (interesting take on stalking).

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5 hours ago, mochamajesty said:

Huh?

I thought it was obvious that was the night of the party when the murder took place. Didn't she wear the same thing during the opening sequence?

On rewatch, she's definitely wearing the Audrey dress and pearls and not the rape dress in that party montage.

Is it possible that Jane uses pot fairly frequently? Could that be why she often seems so out of it? Regardless, I think Tom the cafe guy got her the pot for her drive (not that he knew she was going on a drive). He's seen her lose it a couple of times in the cafe and probably wants to help her de-stress.

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2 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

Alexander Skarsgård plays the psychopathic abuser too well...makes me uncomfy.

Have you seen him in Straw Dogs?  Yikes.

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1 hour ago, nara said:

On rewatch, she's definitely wearing the Audrey dress and pearls and not the rape dress in that party montage.

Is it possible that Jane uses pot fairly frequently? Could that be why she often seems so out of it? Regardless, I think Tom the cafe guy got her the pot for her drive (not that he knew she was going on a drive). He's seen her lose it a couple of times in the cafe and probably wants to help her de-stress.

So does that mean she was attacked again?

she is so agitated and so not in control of her emotions that I would assume she smokes weed on a regular basis. She had quite a few joints in that packet, so I don't think she got some just for the ride.

It's legal in California anyway, but not while driving. 

2 hours ago, Atlanta said:

Kristen S would never work. She has a career because of who her parents are. Yes, I've seen her in more than Twilight. I like that Shailene has a softness. Someone else mentioned that she has a babyface where everyone else is angular, face-wise. It adds a youth factor and innocence.

So many actresses have careers because of nepotism that it's annoying. They almost always play a version of themselves. Kate Hudson is a perfect example. 

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and I dont know how to say this without sounding like im blaming her for what happened but why did Celeste say "no you pick it up" to a man she knows has hit her for less

 

and im not a fan of Woodley in this..she's just there haha

Edited by dd21dd21
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6 hours ago, MamaMax said:

I'm sure she can get her hands on cash. Just buy an expensive garment with a debit card, then return it for cash, for example.

Why would she do that?  She clearly has money and has no qualms about spending it.  We haven't seen anything to suggest her husband has restricted her access to cash or credit cards in any way, nor that she would put up with it if he tried.  If she was a top lawyer before having the twins, chances are she has plenty of her own money as well.  The abuse in this relationship isn't all one way, and Perry isn't your Dr. Phil variety abuser.  He's not trying to cut his wife off from friends or the outside world; he's not restricting her movements, like preventing her from leaving the house; he's not controlling her access to money.  If she wanted to leave, she could.  I think what's troubling her isn't so much the fact that Perry gets violent, but the fact that she does, too, and they both seem to like it.

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9 minutes ago, dd21dd21 said:

and I dont know how to say this without sounding like im blaming her for what happened but why did Celeste say "no you pick it up" to a man she knows has hit her for less

It's explained really well in the book (no spoilers, just context):

Spoiler

Sometimes, when she can tell that he's in a bad mood and that abuse is coming, she would say or do something to provoke him to hit her right then and there just to get it over with. Then she would tell herself that the abuse was partly her fault because she provoked it. This is how she keeps justifying to herself why she's staying with him.

Edited by chocolatine
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Kristen S would never work. She has a career because of who her parents are. 

Perhaps, but nepotism won't lead you to be the first woman ever to win the French version of the Oscar. You gotta do that work yourself. But we're getting off topic. I think Shailene is doing a fine job, but it's fun to imagine what KS would bring to the table.

On that note, although I think Nicole is compelling as Celeste, I've found myself wondering what another actress could bring to that role, particularly one who can do a consistent American accent! The slipping is making me batty. It's like she's not even trying. Or maybe they just should have made her character Australian. 

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On 3/20/2017 at 2:38 PM, scrb said:

First of all the population of the US is 360 million so 36% of the population would be over 120 million.

Secondly, the hit HBO shows hit maybe 10 million viewers per episode or that's what The Sopranos used to get.  I presume Game of Thrones gets more than that now but I doubt it's anywhere near 50 million.

When Sopranos was getting so much hype, some CBS executive wondered why they couldn't produce shows of such quality on broadcast TV.  However, to put it in perspective, the top CBS shows outdrew the most popular HBO shows by a huge margin, because price of HBO is a barrier for many people.

Possibly think of the number of homes in the US with TVs.  That number is somewhere around 117 million. (Too lazy to look it up).  That makes HBO's number of 50 million even more impressive.

Edited by Rosebud1970
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2 hours ago, CofCinci said:

Have you seen him in Straw Dogs?  Yikes.

The only time that I had ever seen him, prior to this, was in Lady Gaga's "Paparazzi" video...I need to get out more...

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6 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

It's explained really well in the book (no spoilers, just context):

  Reveal hidden contents

Sometimes, when she can tell that he's in a bad mood and that abuse is coming, she would say or do something to provoke him to hit her right then and there just to get it over with. Then she would tell herself that the abuse was partly her fault because she provoked it. This is how she keeps justifying to herself why she's staying with him.

o wow :(

Just now, OldButHappy said:

The only time that I had ever seen him, prior to this, was in Lady Gaga's "Paparazzi" video...I need to get out more...

if your attracted to Alexander Skargaard do not watch that movie lol

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