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S13.E16: Who Is He (And What Is He to You)?

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2 hours ago, Biggie B said:

First, Jackson was angry that April was a last-minute substitution for Meredith. Then both he and April were mad at the Bozeman doctor for dumping the responsibility of trying to convince the first dad to donate his son's organs in their laps... And then of course, Jackson was angry at his father...

I don't think we'll see Jackson's father again. As interesting as it would be to know the backstory of his departure - how old was Jackson when he left? Did he ever make contact with Catherine at all since his departure? and so on - those details could probably be provided by Catherine, to an extent. And I don't think there's anything to be gained by Jackson and his father trying to create a relationship at this point. 

There has been a lot of anger in Grey's ever since Catherine told Bailey to hire Minnick. Catherine's bitchy manipulations usually do end up making people angry. But April and Jackson being furious with each other has been going on a lot longer than that, it just came to a head in this episode (again largely because of Catherine's manipulations). 

I agree that seeing Jackson's father on Grey's was probably a one-time thing. We may hear more about Jackson's back-story, but it will be Catherine's twisted & manipulative version of what happened.

I got the impression Jackson must have been quite young when his father left. I do think Jackson's father is interested in him, in spite of all Jackson's (and April's) angry words and assumptions. He was obviously delighted when Jackson introduced himself. And no, he didn't ask a bunch of questions about what Jackson was doing with his life --but he did ask Jackson if he is happy. (As a parent of adult children myself, that is what I care most about. What you do for a living, where you live, etc. are not as important as whether or not you're happy.) And I think Jackson's father -who is a bartender, after all- was listening to him, instead of asking a bunch of questions. He seemed to feel that it was Jackson's choice to ask questions, if he wanted to, or to offer information about himself. He seemed very excited to find out about Harriett!

Ramona said:

My guess is that his father had a mental breakdown at some point from all of the pressure or he had serious drug issues.  ...I think he took off and no one really ever heard from him again.  Catherine and Jackson did seem to know he lived in Bozeman and where he worked so obviously they have been keeping track (private investigator maybe?).  Jackson's father apparently did not even come around for his own father's funeral or else they would have seen each other more recently.  I got the sense he really is all about himself and just does not care about Jackson so much.  There are plenty of deadbeat Dads out there like that.  

 

I wouldn't call him a "deadbeat dad". We don't know the details, but Ramona's suggestion that Jackson's father may have had a mental breakdown and/or a serious substance addiction (alcohol or drugs, doesn't really matter) would certainly help to explain why Catherine had sole custody of their son. There may even have been an Avery family consensus that young Jackson would be better off without his ('no-account') father's influence.

In any case, Jackson's father apparently allowed his own inherited wealth and position to be completely taken over by Catherine (the mother of his child). Did Catherine know where he was the whole time, or did they hire an investigator to find him after he didn't show up to his own father's funeral? (We may never know.)

TV has several reality shows dedicated to people wanting to find long-lost family members, and/or identifying who those long-lost biological family members really are. These reunions are never easy, and they are not always happy. But in most cases, the "lost" family members are at least willing to try to develop a relationship moving forward - and I thought the way Jackson's father behaved indicated that he would have been very happy to do that too.

Edited by Crazy Bird Lady
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Whatever the story is with Jackson's dad, they are going to have to work really hard to make it believable, if they plan to tell us why he was able to just abandon his entire life, family, wife and child without a backward or forward glance.  That is simply not how life for the powerful and wealthy works.

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I enjoyed this episode.  I liked that it was something different, and outside of the hospital.  Also, Jesse Williams is a fine, fine man... I would like to see more episodes focused on Avery just so I can see more Jesse Williams...

As for Jackson and his father, I never heard a backstory.  If Jackson or Catherine talked about him before, I guess I missed it.  I knew that he was the one that was part of the famous Avery family, that it's Catherine's married name, but that's all I knew.  I thought Jackson's reaction was realistic and well done.  I can also see how his father wouldn't recognize Jackson if he left so long ago, but it was also vaguely implied that maybe he never knew Jackson in the first place?  Either way, it was an interesting storyline, and a much needed break from the Minnick melodrama awfulness.

Final note... are Jackson and April back together?  I mean, they do live together, after all...

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Dear god, what a waste of an hour of my life!  Take two characters about whom I care nothing, send them on a road trip to take on a case about which I care nothing, throw in annoying parents who would rather take the very real chance of having their child die than have that child live in a less than perfect manner, then have the doctors come up with a miracle fix at the last minute.  Ugh.  This episode was everything I've come to hate about GA.  So many problems, the biggest of which for me was: even though Jackson is an Avery, would he really have been able to perform a never-before done surgery in an Avery Foundation hospital without some okay from higher up the Foundation chain of command?

The only good thing about this episode was Eric Roberts, who was terrific.  I appreciated that he wasn't the least bit apologetic about leaving his family and career to pursue the life which made him happy, and his take on the weight of Catherine's expectations was on-point.  Yeah, this kind of makes him a dick for apparently not caring about missing years with his son, but sometimes I like an unapologetic dick.  Especially when Jackson clearly expected him to grovel and plead for forgiveness.

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6 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

So many problems, the biggest of which for me was: even though Jackson is an Avery, would he really have been able to perform a never-before done surgery in an Avery Foundation hospital without some okay from higher up the Foundation chain of command?

The only good thing about this episode was Eric Roberts, who was terrific.  I appreciated that he wasn't the least bit apologetic about leaving his family and career to pursue the life which made him happy, and his take on the weight of Catherine's expectations was on-point.  Yeah, this kind of makes him a dick for apparently not caring about missing years with his son, but sometimes I like an unapologetic dick.  Especially when Jackson clearly expected him to grovel and plead for forgiveness.

Short answer - yes, Jackson really would have been able to do that.  If he doesn't run the Foundation, then his mother does, and his mother never denies him anything.  It's a television show; we have to suspend belief for reality of the real world and work with the "reality" that the show has created for itself.  And that's my understanding of how the Avery Foundation works.

I also agree about Eric Roberts and how Robert Avery was portrayed.

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Just now, FnkyChkn34 said:

Short answer - yes, Jackson really would have been able to do that.  If he doesn't run the Foundation, then his mother does, and his mother never denies him anything.  It's a television show; we have to suspend belief for reality of the real world and work with the "reality" that the show has created for itself.  And that's my understanding of how the Avery Foundation works.

I also agree about Eric Roberts and how Robert Avery was portrayed.

Yeah, I gotta stop thinking about anything on GA in terms of the real world.  Maybe if this episode hadn't been mostly shit, I'd have gotten past it.

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9 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

Yeah, I gotta stop thinking about anything on GA in terms of the real world.  Maybe if this episode hadn't been mostly shit, I'd have gotten past it.

Ha, I liked it though, so I guess that's where we'll agree to disagree. ;-)  Anything without awful Minnick, whiny Meredith, whatever Amelia is doing, self-righteous hypocrite Arizona, and everyone else just brooding and complaining is fine with me!

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8 hours ago, renatae said:

Yes, and that's so weird. She has always been "Averys do this, Averys do that, Avery are everything. " How weird that the deadbeat dad is the real Avery.

And, she's still using his name after marrying Dr. Webber. Not even Catherine Avery Webber.

6 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

The two positive things I will say about Robert is that although he was obviously friendly, he didn't try to pressure Jackson in any way once they finally met (and later when Jackson told him this was the end of the line, he didn't try to change his mind) and he just wanted to know if Jackson was happy.

Yes. But, does Robert get that being abandoned and choices made as a response to being abandoned might be impacting Jackson's happiness? Even at 30-35.

2 hours ago, RamonaVanderpump said:

 Jackson's father apparently did not even come around for his own father's funeral or else they would have seen each other more recently.  

When did Harper Avery die?

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Will Jackson's father swoop into Grey/Sloane with a life threatening condition that only Catherine and Richard can cure?  Will little Harriet require a transplant or bone marrow donation that can only come from the elder Avery?  Stay tuned for the canned plot line to come.

I do believe you have psychic powers!

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but back when Jackson first joined the show around Season 5, wasn't he supposed to have had brothers? Does no one else remember his infamous "I'm pretty" speech? Didn't he make a point of saying all his brothers were the respected ones and he was always the "pretty" one? I've never been able to take him seriously because of that monologue. 

I can buy that Jesse Williams has a strong following on this show, but April? In what universe does Shonda Rhimes reside that makes her think people want this show to revolve around April, the most insufferable and annoying character ever invented on TV? She's been shoving April down our throats for years now and I simply do not understand why. If there is some sort of market research or focus group study that points to a huge April following I am unaware of it, not to mention baffled by it.

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3 hours ago, Good Queen Jane said:

Was the Bozeman doctor the same actor who plays the scientist in the Cheezit commercials (the guy who determines whether the cheese has aged enough)? It kept pulling me out of the moment since both wear a white lab coat. Or was I imagining that?

I recognized him from CSI (the original one)

 

As for daddy Avery.  I think we'll see him again, if for no other reason, because he was played by Eric Roberts, a recognizable "name" actor.  He may not be as big as his sister Julia or even his daughter Emma, but he's had a long career.  I can't see him taking this part as a one-off.

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I liked this episode and I can't stand Japril.  But I enjoyed the father/son drama. Regards the great breakthrough operation, haven't we seen them come up with a take something from some other organ and create a tube something-or-other to fix this problem before?  I feel like we have.  That said, the operation confused me.  The moms (yay GA for every week normalizing LGBTQ and POC relationships) were so desperate for her to have her vocal chords.  Now, I'd hate to have my child not be able to talk, but eventually wasn't it coming down to  her being alive at all?  At one point Jackson said she could choke on the tumor?  I just thought they were being so insistent on saving the voice that they seemed to be oblivious to risk of them not be able to save her life.

Dad Avery is a piece of work.  I love how he ran off to the wilds of Montana, just a few miles away from the medical center that bears his name.  LOL. He really ran far, huh?  But absent any other information, at present he is just an irresponsible deadbeat who left his kid behind.  And since Jackson knew where to find hi, I don't think it was out of the realm of reality for him to be able to find Jackson if he was so inclined.  even if he didn't know how to approach Jackson after so many years, the fact that he didn't recognize his son argues that he never even tried to keep tabs form afar.  It isn't hard to do.  They are Averys and I assume their pictures get put in magazines and paper etc. 

I am glad Jackson shot him down when he tried to speak about Catherine.  It is interesting, because again without any more backstory we don't know if the Catherine we see is the original recipe Catherine or that she is what she became because he abandoned them?

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5 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but back when Jackson first joined the show around Season 5, wasn't he supposed to have had brothers? Does no one else remember his infamous "I'm pretty" speech? Didn't he make a point of saying all his brothers were the respected ones and he was always the "pretty" one? I've never been able to take him seriously because of that monologue. 

I only remembered Jackson talking about having a family that wasn't as pretty as him, not brothers or siblings. According to the Grey's Wiki episode 6.14 is when it happened. 

Quote

Jackson: I'm pretty.

Lexie: What?

Jackson: In my family I was always the pretty one. My face, my eyes... The body. You should see me with no shirt on. It's kind of ridiculous. But my family is smart, driven crazy overachievers. And they look like they're smart. They don't look like me. Which has its perks, except that my family treated me like I'm pretty. They expected nothing from me. Ever. They never pushed me. Never thought to. So I had to push myself. Hard. I didn't even tell them I was taking the MCAT's until after I aced them. My point is that you can't just change your hair. Okay? You wanna be unforgettable, you wanna not be mousey? You can't just change your hair. You have to actually change. Just sayin'.

When I first saw Catherine, I remember thinking that plenty of guys who look like Jackson have mothers about as attractive as Catherine. And, that while he might be prettier than the Averys, there are probably others in the Fox family that are close in attractiveness.  Also, all Catherine's talk about Jackson being so different from folks who had to work for it like her and April makes me wonder how much exposure she gave him to her presumably middle class family. Also, I imagine being the biracial son of a socially mobile black mother and in an affluent white family negotiating spaces where few people looked like him or his mother might have had its own challenges. 

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From the article:

Quote

Even though April's presence is contrived as hell, she serves a great purpose as Jackson's sounding board. Whom else could he talk about an issue this intimate with, if not April? Even with their current level of animosity she is the best person who could have been there with him.

Actually, I think Meredith would have been the perfect sounding board for Jackson's thoughts on being abandoned by one's father and raised by a pushy surgeon mommy.  Of course, they probably wouldn't have ended up having sex afterwards but you never know...

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Thanks RaeSpellman for looking that up. Still . . . the way he went on and on in that speech about "his family" suggests siblings, cousins, etc. Now it's like it's just him and Catherine, period. If that's the extent of his family how on earth was he treated "by his family" as the pretty one? Ugh. I just don't think they had this fleshed out back in the day and it's a bit of a retcon now.

The fact that his paternal grandfather was The Great and Powerful Avery of The Avery Foundation and that Catherine is only an Avery by marriage yet is in charge of this foundation strongly suggested (up until now) that she inherited that position through widowhood. I suspect that was the original intent of the backstory until the writers decided to pull this long-lost father crap out of thin air.

At any rate they have now created a mystery they need to clear up.

Edited by iMonrey
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6 minutes ago, Qoass said:

Actually, I think Meredith would have been the perfect sounding board for Jackson's thoughts on being abandoned by one's father and raised by a pushy surgeon mommy.  Of course, they probably wouldn't have ended up having sex afterwards but you never know...

Of course she would have. Even Richard would have been supportive.

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34 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

Regards the great breakthrough operation, haven't we seen them come up with a take something from some other organ and create a tube something-or-other to fix this problem before? 

We saw Alex grow a trachea out of a concoction made from a child's cells in one of the post-hospital shooting episodes, and there was an episode where Mark did something with a skin flap to help Rosalind Chao speak after having had cancer surgery.

Edited by proserpina65
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21 minutes ago, Qoass said:

From the article:

Actually, I think Meredith would have been the perfect sounding board for Jackson's thoughts on being abandoned by one's father and raised by a pushy surgeon mommy.  Of course, they probably wouldn't have ended up having sex afterwards but you never know...

This is something touched upon way back in season 6 and never revisited. In theory Meredith would have had first hand experience with the situation Jackson was going through and maybe his feelings on the matter, but would Meredith has subtly pushed him like april had? Meredith would have told him to put up or shut up and just left it at that. Maybe Meredith back in season 8 would have taken a more personable approach but Meredith now has barely looked jacksons way since season 10? So no, Meredith would not have pushed the story forward like april had by forcing him to talk to his father. Plus I doubt Jackson would have opened up to her like he did to april, and that is in large part due to Jackson and aprils shared history. 

I resent the implication I'm seeing here that Robert Avery gets a pass cause Catherine is extreme and manipulative. Now we don't know the whole story, maybe she threatened him, forced him out and blocked him from Jackson...but Roberts reaction to seeing Jackson for the first time and realizing who he was was akin to recognizing an old friend from high school you haven't seen in years. 

And yes maybe Jackson wanted to hear some regret from Robert, which Robert had none. It's like Jackson said, he didn't even have the presence of mind to fake it. For a person whose built this confrontation up in his head for years and has dealt with his own hang ups about his father abandoning him, having your father look you in the eye and say without hesitation how happy he is with his life...it's horrible for Jackson. 

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Am so confused. If Robert Avery is Jackson's dad, where did the money come from for all the foundations and hospitals? Did Robert have scads of money that he ignored when he left medicine. And how did Catherine get hold of it. Really confusing. Are we to assume Robert and Catherine were actually married at one time?

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12 minutes ago, moonorchid said:

I resent the implication I'm seeing here that Robert Avery gets a pass cause Catherine is extreme and manipulative

I'm not saying he gets a pass as a person.  I just found it refreshing to see a character not be repentant for a change.

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33 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Thanks RaeSpellman for looking that up. Still . . . the way he went on and on in that speech about "his family" suggests siblings, cousins, etc. Now it's like it's just him and Catherine, period. If that's the extent of his family how on earth was he treated "by his family" as the pretty one? Ugh. I just don't think they had this fleshed out back in the day and it's a bit of a retcon now.

The fact that his paternal grandfather was The Great and Powerful Avery of The Avery Foundation and that Catherine is only an Avery by marriage yet is in charge of this foundation strongly suggested (up until now) that she inherited that position through widowhood. I suspect that was the original intent of the backstory until the writers decided to pull this long-lost father crap out of thin air.

At any rate they have now created a mystery they need to clear up.

I don't know how much f a retcon it really is though.  I don't recall them ever saying outright his father was dead.  But I do remember the episode that Harper Avery came in for a bowel something or other and it was claer that he held Catherine in very high regard.  And last season they mentioned that Jackson's father ran off and tried to take Jackson with him and that Catherine thought he was childish.

I just figure with Catherine it was a case of being "more Avery than the real Avery's" and maybe that is why Harper was happy to turn everything over to her. 

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24 minutes ago, Catherinewriter said:

Am so confused. If Robert Avery is Jackson's dad, where did the money come from for all the foundations and hospitals? Did Robert have scads of money that he ignored when he left medicine.

Yes.  I think it's also the case that Catherine's work has made the foundation more successful than it was when she married into the family.

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Now we know who Catherine had in mind when she dissed Jackson as "an outstanding surgeon." Jackson caught the insult but not the reference. 

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35 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

I just figure with Catherine it was a case of being "more Avery than the real Avery's" and maybe that is why Harper was happy to turn everything over to her. 

That's what I figured as well.  Especially because Robert said something like "Catherine was made for that life and I didn't want it."  (I paraphrase, not an exact quote.)

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4 hours ago, RamonaVanderpump said:

That was Wally Langham.  He has been on a a lot of TV shows including The Larry Sanders Show and Veronica's Closet.  When I saw his name in the opening credits I assumed he was going to have a much bigger role than he did.  However, he did basically ruin his career in an incident where he attacked a  photographer (I think) and used gay slurs toward them.

I am onboard with whoever said they are over the Japril feuding and don't mind seeing them together raising their daughter.  This has been coming since April went on that date several episodes ago.  I loved seeing Jackson get his own episode.   Anytime I can look at JW for a whole episode I am totally in.  

My guess is that his father had a mental breakdown at some point from all of the pressure or he had serious drug issues.  There is something about him (could just be Eric Roberts demeanor though).  I think he took off and no one really ever heard from him again.  Catherine and Jackson did seem to know he lived in Bozeman and where he worked so obviously they have been keeping track (private investigator maybe?).  Jackson's father apparently did not even come around for his own father's funeral or else they would have seen each other more recently.  I got the sense he really is all about himself and just does not care about Jackson so much.  There are plenty of deadbeat Dads out there like that.  They have no contact with their children for years and then the kid finds them and they act no different than if they saw a long lost high school acquaintance. I found nothing in the conversation Jackson's father was having with him that indicated any level of caring above what that sort of interaction would require.  It will be interesting to see what happens in the future.  Will Jackson's father swoop into Grey/Sloane with a life threatening condition that only Catherine and Richard can cure?  Will little Harriet require a transplant or bone marrow donation that can only come from the elder Avery?  Stay tuned for the canned plot line to come.

I don't think Harper Avery died. He was alive at the end of the Season 6 episode.

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1 hour ago, Catherinewriter said:

Am so confused. If Robert Avery is Jackson's dad, where did the money come from for all the foundations and hospitals? Did Robert have scads of money that he ignored when he left medicine. And how did Catherine get hold of it. Really confusing. Are we to assume Robert and Catherine were actually married at one time?

Actually, I think it's more like, Catherine Avery *wanted* to be rich and powerful; the man she married (who was born into it) did not. And she had custody of their child, so... My take on this is that Robert probably actually *gave* her almost all his money -and his shares in the Avery fortunes- as part of their divorce.

It might also have been part of their divorce, that Robert agreed not to come around and contaminate their child's impressionable young mind with his non-greedy attitudes and his lack of responsibility within the Avery hiearchy.

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1 hour ago, Catherinewriter said:

Am so confused. If Robert Avery is Jackson's dad, where did the money come from for all the foundations and hospitals? Did Robert have scads of money that he ignored when he left medicine. And how did Catherine get hold of it. Really confusing. Are we to assume Robert and Catherine were actually married at one time?

I'm baffled by this too. I would assume the Avery family would have a significantly family fortune, that has been at least implied but they also mention the many fundraisers so that implies that they are out seeking donations for the foundation and not funding it exclusively from their fortune. Which begs the question, where does Catherine's money come from because I don't see how she would play into the family fortune which is surely in trusts and I doubt the fondation could financially justify Catherine galavanting around in the huge private jet owned by the foundation or S-class limos.

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46 minutes ago, John M said:

I'm baffled by this too. I would assume the Avery family would have a significantly family fortune, that has been at least implied but they also mention the many fundraisers so that implies that they are out seeking donations for the foundation and not funding it exclusively from their fortune. Which begs the question, where does Catherine's money come from because I don't see how she would play into the family fortune which is surely in trusts and I doubt the fondation could financially justify Catherine galavanting around in the huge private jet owned by the foundation or S-class limos.

All foundations fundraise.  Sure, they could be funded with millions of dollars from some family's trust, but why wouldn't they want to keep raising even more money to do even more good in the world?  

I don't think this has been said or proven, but it's my impression that Catherine must have been adopted in to the Avery family when she married Robert.  Her money comes from them because they didn't disown her when they got divorced; the family could easily have provided her with her own trust.  She may have had control over a large sum of money as Jackson's sole guardian and care-giver, too.  The Avery family would surely provide for him - he's an Avery.  Catherine is also a world-renowned successful surgeon in her own right, so I'd bet that she can make her own money as a doctor using her skills and not just her name.  

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I'm even willing to watch an hour of Grandiose Catherine and Hapless April importuning Surly Jackson, if they throw in some Eric Roberts.

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2 hours ago, DearEvette said:

 

I just figure with Catherine it was a case of being "more Avery than the real Avery's" and maybe that is why Harper was happy to turn everything over to her. 

I always thought Jackson's dad ran off with no explanation and since Jackson was still a kid and Catherine was his legal guardian, Harper Avery gave her control of his share of the family fortune/position in boards/whatever it is how these things work. And then maybe, they realized how great she was at it and when Jackson turned 18, she was allowed to stay in the position.

 

About the "I'm pretty speech", while at the time it sounded like he had siblings, now it can make sense as even being only child (I'm not sure if at that time we knew his family was mixed or that his dad had left). On his father's side he's the only black one and one his mother's side, he's the fair skin and blue eyed kid. But I have a really hard time believing pushy Catherine treated her son as a pretty boy and didn't even try to influence him into getting into medicine, let alone a surgeon.

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Hello fellow anti-Japril folks! I find April to be irritating and insufferable. While it's clear that getting them back together is the end game for the characters, that doesn't mean I have to like it.

I too thought that Mere would have totally understood and empathized with what Jackson was going through with his father. In some ways, my anti-Japril feelings not withstanding, I think that would have been a more interesting option.

Can't wait to get more info re the Catherine/Robert story. Should be good!

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The thing with Mere going instead of April, is that Jackson would of never opened up to Meredith the way he did April, he doesn't show any vulnerability really to anyone besides April.  He wouldn't have spoken so freely about his feelings of meeting his dad to Meredith and therefore we would have gotten his verbalized point of view. Also Meredith would've given him some cold, detached, matter of fact advice which wasn't what he needed, he needed emotional support.

For those asking Catherine and Robert were married and I believe they mentioned Robert left when Jackson was around three. Im guessing Robert is Harpers only son and therefore Jackson the only grandson. Harper probably liked Catherine well of enough and she did a well enough job that he felt okay trusting her with his legacy.  Im sure Harper ran things when Robert left with Caterine's assistance. Also it seems since Catherine felt Jackson didn't what the Avery responsiblity she was starting to mold April to pass on that responsibility to her granddaughter. And Harper is still living FYI.

I did like they they reminded the audience that Catherine and April were bonded before Japril ever got together romantically.

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19 hours ago, pennben said:

I wasn't sure what to expect coming into the episode, but I actually thought it was a quiet, simple, rather lovely little episode.  

I agree...I liked this one, once I got past the total contrivance of April going along with Jackson- um they live together how did they go to the airport separately and neither knew they were going to same place.  silly.

Also, as others have been saying, they haven't really been consistent with Jackson's backstory but I am willing to hand wave most of that away since if you think too much about the logic or timelines of this show you'll give your self an aneurysm.  

If they are going to insist on the bottle, small cast episodes I think this was the best approach.

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After reading the comments I realized something: somewhere down the line this show has beaten me into submission. So many times in past seasons I've thought, "Oh, hell, that's it! I'm gone." But here I am and nothing bothers me as much any more. April acts stupid? Oh, okay, of course, she does. Jackson's insufferably rude? Yawn, that's fine, and besides he's gorgeous. It's like that old pair of jeans that are soft and comfy and I don't even notice that the waist's too tight--I just unbutton the top button and sink in.

Carry on. You're all right. : )

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1 hour ago, Snow Fairy said:

How old was the kid patient? Should the parents and doctors talk and argue so much in front of her?

I had that same thought, and it seemed out of character for the doctors.  Also, I didn't understand why they wouldn't let her write her thoughts or type them on a screen so she could communicate.

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3 hours ago, John M said:

I'm baffled by this too. I would assume the Avery family would have a significantly family fortune, that has been at least implied but they also mention the many fundraisers so that implies that they are out seeking donations for the foundation and not funding it exclusively from their fortune. Which begs the question, where does Catherine's money come from because I don't see how she would play into the family fortune which is surely in trusts and I doubt the fondation could financially justify Catherine galavanting around in the huge private jet owned by the foundation or S-class limos.

Catherine is a world class physician.  Surely she's made enough as a surgeon to afford a limo. She has been a part of the Avery family for at least 30 years. Maybe longer than that depending on how old Jackson is supposed to be. That's a long time to help grow/contribute to the Avery family fortune. We know Jackson went to boarding school. So, even though Catherine was a single mom, she had plenty of time to make a fortune of her own. 

There haven't shown us that Catherine galavants around in the family jet and limo. She used the jet to fly Jackson Avery to the Avery Hospital and used the Avery limo to transport Jackson Avery and Harriet Kepner-Avery. Is the thinking that some other more deserving Avery needed the jet and the limo that day?

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6 hours ago, RaeSpellman said:

I only remembered Jackson talking about having a family that wasn't as pretty as him, not brothers or siblings. According to the Grey's Wiki episode 6.14 is when it happened. 

When I first saw Catherine, I remember thinking that plenty of guys who look like Jackson have mothers about as attractive as Catherine. And, that while he might be prettier than the Averys, there are probably others in the Fox family that are close in attractiveness.  Also, all Catherine's talk about Jackson being so different from folks who had to work for it like her and April makes me wonder how much exposure she gave him to her presumably middle class family. Also, I imagine being the biracial son of a socially mobile black mother and in an affluent white family negotiating spaces where few people looked like him or his mother might have had its own challenges. 

I've been rewatching from the beginning, and I am pretty sure Jackson has said he has a sister.

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10 minutes ago, jschoolgirl said:

I've been rewatching from the beginning, and I am pretty sure Jackson has said he has a sister.

I pretty sure in the beginning they toyed around with the idea of Meredith and Jackson being brother and sister

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I actually think Meredith would have been a great person for Jackson to open up too. In some ways, their parental background is similar. She would have had an unique understanding of some of what Jackson is going through. She didn't know her father either. 

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9 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

I enjoyed this episode.  I liked that it was something different, and outside of the hospital.  Also, Jesse Williams is a fine, fine man... I would like to see more episodes focused on Avery just so I can see more Jesse Williams...

Final note... are Jackson and April back together?  I mean, they do live together, after all...

I will agree that i enjoyed having an entire hour of Jesse Williams and I'm all for more episodes focused on him but I found that I didn't like the episode...

And I too am curios about whether or not they are together. I'd love for the next episode to give us something along the lines of April thinking that their one-night-tryst meaning that they are back together and Jackson telling her no! 
For the record, I didn't hate April. Actually quite like them together and grew to like her even more after she came back from Iraq (?) but I didn't agree with her leaving. He was grieving also and needed his wife and she did what she needed to do for herself. I know what it's like to loose a child and I won't point fingers at anyone for doing what they needed to for their own personal healing, but it tore them apart and I think they're time is done. I would've much preferred to see them co-parent successfully (in separate houses cuz that living together thing makes no sense to me).
 

Slight nitpick... I feel like April is doing and saying things that are rather out of character... last week with the whole "I feel like I've been demoted" crap and this week when she got on the plane and began gushing.... since when does April care about private planes?

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 since when does April care about private planes?

She probably never thought one way or the other about them until she was on one.

I would be fine with Jackson and April not back together romantically, but being nicer to each other professionally; friends who are raising their daughter together.

Edited by chitowngirl
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I actually feel that the fact that Meredith has a similar parental backstory and went through essentially the same meet-my-abandoning-father moment is exactly why I'm glad she wasn't paired with Jackson for this episode. For one, it's a little too convenient that, for this episode where Jackson confronts his long-lost father after, what, 30 years, he happened to be traveling with the coworker that he honestly has very little to do with but just so happens to have the exact same life story in terms of her own father. Second, like some others have said, Jackson would not have opened up freely with Meredith because they're really not close, and a heart to heart would have felt contrived. I think it's better that someone like April went with him -- someone he actually is close to, has had a deep emotional connection to, but more importantly someone who grew up with two loving parents, who has a father in her life, who has no personal understanding of what he feels now. Someone to just be there for him to support him and be a sounding board because they care about him, not because "I've been there too." Then the story is just as much about them. The third reason is, Meredith would have undoubtedly made the whole situation about herself. And who the hell needs that all day?

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12 hours ago, schnauzergirl said:

I know how unpopular this will be, but any episode without Meredith -- or with her on the fringes -- is a plus for me.  

I don't think it is as unpopular as you think it is...

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My nitpick: when April and Jackson got back to Seattle, April told Catherine, "Jackson said you could give me a ride home." Don't Jackson and April still live together?

 

18 hours ago, Chicken Wing said:

Either (a) Jackson wasn't planning to go straight home and said Catherine could drop April off at the apartment, or (b) the writers forgot that they live together. Either one is equally plausible.

But didn't Catherine have Harriet with her when she picked up Jackson and Avery from the airport? That means someone has to go home with the baby! It just seemed so weird to me because if Mr. EB's mom picked us up from the airport and then I said, "Mr. EB said you could drop me off at home," she would probably just give me a "NO SHIT, SHERLOCK!" look.

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17 hours ago, aprilbabe said:

I pretty sure in the beginning they toyed around with the idea of Meredith and Jackson being brother and sister

Yes, I know about that, but I am sure I heard Jackson mention a sibling.

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14 hours ago, Chicken Wing said:

I actually feel that the fact that Meredith has a similar parental backstory and went through essentially the same meet-my-abandoning-father moment is exactly why I'm glad she wasn't paired with Jackson for this episode. For one, it's a little too convenient that, for this episode where Jackson confronts his long-lost father after, what, 30 years, he happened to be traveling with the coworker that he honestly has very little to do with but just so happens to have the exact same life story in terms of her own father. Second, like some others have said, Jackson would not have opened up freely with Meredith because they're really not close, and a heart to heart would have felt contrived. I think it's better that someone like April went with him -- someone he actually is close to, has had a deep emotional connection to, but more importantly someone who grew up with two loving parents, who has a father in her life, who has no personal understanding of what he feels now. Someone to just be there for him to support him and be a sounding board because they care about him, not because "I've been there too." Then the story is just as much about them. The third reason is, Meredith would have undoubtedly made the whole situation about herself. And who the hell needs that all day?

I totally agree with this.  Even though I am no April fan, I do agree that April was the right person at the right time.  Just because someone has a similar issue doesn't mean they'd be the best person to give you perspective.  Don't a lot of kids whose parents leave think they are somehow a fault?  Meredith may have unwittingly enforced this idea in Jackson if she herself had also internalized something like that.  So someone who grew up in a happy family with a present father is the right person to say 'I know what a good dad is and he isn't it.'  Which April did and probably tipped the scale from Jackson feeling rejected and trying to overcome that by trying to create a relationship where there wasn't one. 

Added to that, they do have an intimate bond.  Sure it is stretched and hidden under some animosity but she is his ex-wife, roommate and mother of his children.  I can't even recall the last time Meredith had a personal conversation with Jackson and let's face it, these days I Meredith doesn't seem to care about anyone but Alex and Richard.

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I feel for Jackson...  

His mother & father were complete mismatches like mine were.  My mother is a malignant narcissist.  Cold, distant, driven.  My father was a super passive enabler.  My parents split when I was 17, my sister was 13.  My dad waited until I ran away before he finally left her.  I eventually moved into his place until I was able to recover somewhat.  

My sister was 13.  My dad never fought for her.  He had some REALLY bad advice that my sis wouldn't want to live with him, and that it's a waste of money and time to fight.  That she would just sulk during visitations, and that it would only cause my sister pain to be dragged through a custody battle.  So my dad let her go.  He saw her once, when she needed money for college- which he gave her, and neither of us have seen her again.  My mom was self-centered -to be very kind- and started a new life, with a new husband, and a new set of kids....she lives 5 minutes from me and has never met my children.  She didn't come to my wedding (which she was invited to), nothing....all because I chose to live with my dad.  My childhood was a nightmare...but that's for the novel.  ;)

My point is that sometimes people get really bad counsel.  Sometimes people are just WEAK (like my father).  Sometimes they just feel it's not good for the child, and they're better off without a custody battle.  My dad to this day says "Someday she will pull into my driveway and maybe we can start over."  She won't, because my dad dropped the ball BIG time and she felt abandoned.  

That pain doesn't go away....the abandonment.  My sister was abandoned by my father, and I was abandoned by my mother.  Catherine may not be a malignant narc, but she's very very strong willed...and Robert seems very laid back and weak willed.  Perhaps he chose not to drag Jackson through a huge custody battle...thinking he was doing Jackson a favor.  People make huge miscalculations all the time.  I wonder, if for the GOOD of Jackson's self-image...did Catherine ever encourage her son to see or visit his father?  Did she call Robert and ask him to come to birthday parties, graduations?  If she did....kudos to her, but there is still a LOT missing to this story.  He was too sweet of a guy to be a monster deadbeat asshole.  There's way more to this story, IMO.  

Edited by Meow25
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