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Lantern7

S12.E10: Dennis' Double Life

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Season finale time, bitches!

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Dennis reveals he has a baby from his Wade Boggs layover in North Dakota. Everyone offers a solution for how to get him out of this jam. Mac suggests they pretend to be a couple and Frank wants to make the broad a "decent" proposal b/c $1 million for sex is indecent. In the end, Dennis has to decide which life he wants to continue to lead.

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Please don't let this be Glenn's last episode. I have a feeling that the kid in the water park storyline would lead to Dennis wanting to be a dad. 

So many callbacks. The Wade Boggs episode! The rocket launcher has a rocket now! Mac is still out! The Ass Pounder 4000! Also, Frank is the one that needed an egg for this trying time.

The Waitress is back! And of course Charlie wants to get her pregnant to be tied with her for life. I loved his posters about his plans to be together with her, like the gold Lambo and WORK. And of course in his mind Frank is gonna be the provider.

"All women's Achilles' Heel: Time." Charlie Logic managed to work on The Waitress, and no shock that he can't deal with what he finally got what he wanted. Charlie's been stalking The Waitress since day one, and being paid actual attention freaks him out. EDIT: The Waitress kept turning down Charlie because she hated herself Damn.

Fun Fact: The woman who played Mandy played the mom on Bobby's World.

Edited by Galileo908
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Obvious question: why doesn't Dee murder the guys? I figured  Everybody Loves Raymond would end with punching bag Rob shooting his family, then turning the gun on himself. That might be a better finale for this show. Poor Dee. Maybe if she changed the locks.

Dennis as a dad? Scary thought. We could end up with a rash of murders in the Dakotas, and the only question would be if it was Dennis or Brian Jr.

Hoping the Waitress was scamming Charlie into forgetting about her. Also, I hope she got the dollar per minute like she was promised.

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33 minutes ago, Galileo908 said:

So many callbacks. The Wade Boggs episode! The rocket launcher has a rocket now! Mac is still out! The Ass Pounder 4000! Also, Frank is the one that needed an egg for this trying time.

Dee's inflatable man dance!!!!!!!!!

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13 minutes ago, nutella fitzgerald said:

Dee's inflatable man dance!!!!!!!!!

Everyone's dance showed up!

48 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Obvious question: why doesn't Dee murder the guys? I figured  Everybody Loves Raymond would end with punching bag Rob shooting his family, then turning the gun on himself. That might be a better finale for this show. Poor Dee. Maybe if she changed the locks.

She couldn't even smash a baby! 

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If this IS the end of Sunny (which I hope it isn't), think about what happened this season:

-Mac came out (and stayed out)
-Charlie banged the waitress
-Rickety Cricket tried to change himself
-we finally saw a "normal" day at the bar
-Maureen was killed off (and Dennis MIGHT have killed her)
-Dennis was able to play God via running the "sitcom" of Charlie & Mac's moms.
-Dennis & Mac's apartment was finally fixed
-and finally, Dennis is finally fed up with the gang, leaves, and faces the consequences of something he did. 

Where else could the show go from here?

Edited by Galileo908 · Reason: Added a few more items
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Yeah, looking back at it there was a decent amount of foreshadowing that this could be Dennis' last season and the final season of the show, period. 

I'm not a 100% if the show can recover losing one of the gang although it might give them some new storyline opportunities next year. 

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Let's not forget the best callback of all Honey and Vinegar!

The more I think about this season the more it looks like this season has been telling us that Dennis is leaving. You could pretty much see Dennis growing up throughout the season. I mean he still participated in the hi jinks, but ultimately, he almost seemed to be becoming one of those normal people that the gang despises.

Charlie actually got to bang the waitress and it stuck this time. Hopefully it's a scheme for the apartment, but it's actually likely a real thing. Imagine if he actually got the waitress pregnant? 

Not sure how to feel about this finale. 

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I don't know if I buy that Dennis who couldn't survive 1 month in the suburbs is going to cut it in North Dakota, but I can believe he'd want to try. You guys are right; this was a very Dennis-focused season. It was also a much better finale than last year's do-nothing bottle episode where they killed off the gang yet didn't.

I wonder if when they were shooting this, they realized it would play on International Women's Day. They've never been shy about having the guys pick on Dee in particular or make sexist comments in general, but certainly there was an extra helping here.

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I'm pretty sure they have two more seasons to do.

 

Whose car did they blow up? I assumed it was Dennis's, hopefully not with him in it!

Is The Waitress scamming Charlie?

I laughed at Frank's "decent proposal".

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I always laugh at the "power bottom" discussion coming up. 

I don't see Dennis staying in North Dakota.  That won't last.  He couldn't take a month in the suburbs of Philly.  His "marriage" to Maureen lasted, what, like 3 days or so?  No way he survives North Dakota as a dad.  He'll be back.  Its just a cliffhanger. 

Surprised by the waitress and Charlie.  Didn't see him actually convincing her to sleep with him, then dumping her.  Has she slept with all of them now, except Dee?  They were never really clear on how much she and Mac did.  Maybe that is coming next season. 

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12 hours ago, Galileo908 said:

If this IS the end of Sunny (which I hope it isn't), think about what happened this season:

-Mac came out (and stayed out)
-Charlie banged the waitress
-Rickety Cricket tried to change himself
-we finally saw a "normal" day at the bar
-Maureen was killed off (and Dennis MIGHT have killed her)
-Dennis was able to play God via running the "sitcom" of Charlie & Mac's moms.
-Dennis & Mac's apartment was finally fixed
-and finally, Dennis is finally fed up with the gang, leaves, and faces the consequences of something he did. 

Where else could the show go from here?

I was sort of surprised Dennis didn't have a vasectomy.  It doesn't seem like him to trust women, although I guess I could see him have some reasons for not wanting to, or being in denial that he'd ever end up a father.

I'm sad that the Old... Man seems to be back on the street.  I sort of wished he was still sleeping with Dee and/or Mac and Dennis.

If the show continues, I can see a lot of humor in the long running Charlie/Waitress relationship flipping.  Although the more realistic one is that she hates him even more than she ever did before.

Mac's character seems like it would continue pretty much the same.  He never had any solid relationships with women, and I can imagine men finding him just as shallow and dumpable.

I'm actually glad with the end of Maureen Ponderosa -- I thought her character got too far over the top.

There was a hint last season that Frank had a terminal condition, but that never came up again.  I sort of expected he'd be the first character to go.  If Charlie and Waitress somehow stay together, then it would be interesting to see where he'd go to live, although in real life you'd think he would stay in the apartment and the couple would find a better/safer place to live.  Maybe they could sleep with Dee in the king sized bed?

8 hours ago, Oscirus said:

The more I think about this season the more it looks like this season has been telling us that Dennis is leaving. You could pretty much see Dennis growing up throughout the season. I mean he still participated in the hi jinks, but ultimately, he almost seemed to be becoming one of those normal people that the gang despises.

The Gang Tends Bar stands out that way.  Even though he was hiding the reason he wanted everyone to work hard at their jobs, the hidden reason turned out not to be some scam or psychopathic drive, just that he wanted to be remembered.  That pretty much makes it clear why Brian Jr. saying goodbye hit him so hard.

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The deal was that they had to sleep with Old Black Man for one year. Time was up a few weeks ago, there was no reason to continue.

 

3 hours ago, vousviou said:

I'm actually glad with the end of Maureen Ponderosa -- I thought her character got too far over the top

Exact opposite here - I thought the more over the top, the funnier it got.

Edited by Hypnocratic Goat
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On 3/8/2017 at 8:31 PM, Galileo908 said:

The Waitress kept turning down Charlie because she hated herself Damn.

Yeah, this is dark show, but that was a tragic. I was always hoping that they're endgame. She even was surprised the sex was good. 

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12 hours ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

But then Dee got another sitcom and she is still on there. 

As Alan Sepinwall explains in his interview with Glenn Howerton this week, that's a little different. The Mick airs on Fox, which is in partnership (rather than competition) with FX, so it's easier to share actors. It could still happen with an NBC sitcom, but we don't know -- and of course the pilot might not be picked up as a series, or might bomb quickly if it does air, and even if it does stay on they could take an extra-long hiatus before the next Always Sunny season and work around each other's schedule if NBC's agreeable... there are just a lot of unknowns and hypotheticals at this point.

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2 hours ago, Rinaldo said:

As Alan Sepinwall explains in his interview with Glenn Howerton this week, that's a little different.

To correct some erroneous information in that article:

Kaitlin Olson is in fact an executive producer on The Mick, and not just an actress as the writer claims.

And Glenn does NOT need NBC's permission to return to Sunny. Actors in a series are always free to do other acting jobs when not shooting. As Glenn states in this article, the decision about whether to return is not related to the NBC series. According to Glenn, “It’s very much a creative decision.”

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I don't think Dennis has the mental stability to survive in the 'normal world,' but I think having him gone for a little while would be interesting if we only found out snippets of what was going on, and then he'd have to return because he's fleeing the North Dakota police or something. 

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3 hours ago, Hypnocratic Goat said:

And Glenn does NOT need NBC's permission to return to Sunny. Actors in a series are always free to do other acting jobs when not shooting.

Series regular contracts do typically prohibit you from being a series regular on another show.  Oftentimes you're not even allowed to recur on another series during your hiatus -- one-off guest spots only.

This situation is different, though, as he's not just an actor on Philly and they're all friends.  Sounds like everyone is willing to be flexible and make it work if they can, usually a production isn't inclined to put in that much effort -- that's why you sign an actor as a series regular, so you can just own them and know they'll be available to you whenever you want them.  I'm sure NBC has him in first position (there's just no way they would have gone forward with this if they didn't) with a clause that allows him to continue appearing on Sunny, as long as he's first been cleared by the NBC show for those dates.

What's interesting to me is that FX was willing to let him go, I would have thought their multi-year pickup was contingent on the continuing participation of all the principals.  But I believe the show can be good with or without Dennis, it's nice to see just how much faith the network has in them.

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27 minutes ago, JyDanzig said:

Series regular contracts do typically prohibit you from being a series regular on another show.  Oftentimes you're not even allowed to recur on another series during your hiatus -- one-off guest spots only.

Do you have a source for this? It's contrary to my understanding.

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2 hours ago, Hypnocratic Goat said:

Do you have a source for this? It's contrary to my understanding.

I worked in casting for about 15 years until recently switching to another field.  When I was on a series, this was one of my tricks for a specific kind of casting challenge: the one episode, one-or-two scene part that the producers think is SUPER important, but is the kind of role that is just not interesting to an actor (usually some boring ex-girlfriend/boyfriend part... they must feel so compelling and interesting and magnetic!  even though none of that is on the page).  So my bosses are demanding a really high caliber performer, but those high-caliber actors want to hold out for recurring roles, or at least something more exciting to play (or a big payday, which of course my producers don't want to do -- "get us someone amazing AND cheap for this dull, dead-end role!").  So I'd always think, who is on hiatus from their series right now?  Because those people will accept this one-off guest spot offer... they are not holding out for something recurring, because they're contractually prohibited from doing those jobs.

It is true that this is getting relaxed more and more, though.  As Peak TV gets more intense, it gives the actors an increasing amount of leverage to demand they be less restricted in the kind of work they accept during their downtime.  But a series regular contract is always going to have some sort of exclusivity and first-position provisions (that's one reason you're paying your regulars so much money, after all, to make it worth their while to lock themselves down for you).  The phrasing you hear/use all the time is about "owning" them -- when you're telling a producer why such and such actor is not available -- "NBC owns them, they're on the new Mike Schur show" or whatever.  It always feels a little creepy talking about "owning" other humans.

Oh, also, this is specific to TV.  You're usually free to do whatever plays and movies you want, as long as they fit within your hiatus dates, it's only other TV jobs where these restrictions come into play.

Actually, I did recently read an interview with a Fox casting exec that talked about some of these issues, in relation to Kaitlin Olson's deal... in case you want a source that is not just "random message board poster."  :)

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/foxs-sharon-klein-impact-donald-trumps-muslim-ban-im-scared-972526

Edited by JyDanzig
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Thanks for all that @JyDanzig. It agrees with what I'd always understood (not that you need a bystander to endorse what you know first-hand). One of the things that regulars in a series are being paid for is their exclusivity -- if they develop a following, audiences will have to watch this series, and no other, to see them. Working on movies and plays during hiatus doesn't dilute that, but being seen regularly on another series does. 

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1 hour ago, JyDanzig said:

Oh, also, this is specific to TV.  You're usually free to do whatever plays and movies you want, as long as they fit within your hiatus dates, it's only other TV jobs where these restrictions come into play.

That's all really interesting.   How does it work when a show is in development?  Do actors have to sign an exclusive contract early on?  My understanding is that a show might be stuck in development for quite a while after casting for a pilot is done -- are actors locked up until a network makes a final decision?  Or do they have freedom until the network decides to buy the show?  I'd think networks would want to avoid contract negotiations once they decide to take a show and risk giving actors too much leverage and go through recasting, but actors would be reluctant to sign anything unless they knew a pilot had a good chance of being picked up.  Maybe I'm overthinking this, and it all varies from show to show.

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33 minutes ago, vousviou said:

That's all really interesting.   How does it work when a show is in development?  Do actors have to sign an exclusive contract early on?  My understanding is that a show might be stuck in development for quite a while after casting for a pilot is done -- are actors locked up until a network makes a final decision?  Or do they have freedom until the network decides to buy the show?  I'd think networks would want to avoid contract negotiations once they decide to take a show and risk giving actors too much leverage and go through recasting, but actors would be reluctant to sign anything unless they knew a pilot had a good chance of being picked up.  Maybe I'm overthinking this, and it all varies from show to show.

All series regular candidates who get to the network test (the last audition before someone is chosen for the job) will have their full contract negotiated for the series.  The actor MUST sign the contract before they even do the test -- so that if you decide you want them, you can just say "we're picking up your option" and activate the terms you've already agreed to, rather than start negotiations at that point ("congratulations, you got the part!"  "Great, now I want much more money!")

And how long you can hold them is all negotiated in the deal.  Sometimes you have multiple options for extension, which would come with more money to keep holding.  "You have until X date to decide if you want me or not.  If we get to X date, you can A. pick me up for the series, B. release me to pursue other opportunities, or C. hold me until date Y for an additional payment of Z dollars, if you want more time to decide."

This used to all be really standardized, but it's another instance where the Peak TV era has given actors much more leverage, so the specific terms can vary a lot depending on who's involved.

Edit: oh, and if you were asking more about the bigger names that would just be offered a lead role, instead of those actors that would go through an audition process for the job, that's a whole other thing. There's always some sort of timeline you're eyeing to actually shoot the pilot, established actors will sometimes attach themselves to a project they really like as a star vehicle for themselves, and then it gets shopped around to the networks as a package: this series idea/script and this star, anyone interested, and if so can we come to terms to produce it?  But the contracts at all levels do always have a timeline of how long you "own" the actors until you have to fish or cut bait

Edited by JyDanzig
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Didn't Fishburn have two shows at the same time?

I know Lawson had Psych and whatever that crappy new show of hers was and she was allowed to be on Pych twice.

All that being said, I think this is more about Glenn.  He's likely trying to expand his portfolio beyond this show. As of right now, he's not very marketable to kids which is where the real money's at.

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He could always come back and we see a throwaway headline in the Philadelphia Inquirer: Woman Missing in North Dakota

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On 3/10/2017 at 8:36 PM, JyDanzig said:

All series regular candidates who get to the network test (the last audition before someone is chosen for the job) will have their full contract negotiated for the series.  The actor MUST sign the contract before they even do the test -- so that if you decide you want them, you can just say "we're picking up your option" and activate the terms you've already agreed to, rather than start negotiations at that point ("congratulations, you got the part!"  "Great, now I want much more money!")

And how long you can hold them is all negotiated in the deal.  Sometimes you have multiple options for extension, which would come with more money to keep holding.  "You have until X date to decide if you want me or not.  If we get to X date, you can A. pick me up for the series, B. release me to pursue other opportunities, or C. hold me until date Y for an additional payment of Z dollars, if you want more time to decide."

This used to all be really standardized, but it's another instance where the Peak TV era has given actors much more leverage, so the specific terms can vary a lot depending on who's involved.

Edit: oh, and if you were asking more about the bigger names that would just be offered a lead role, instead of those actors that would go through an audition process for the job, that's a whole other thing. There's always some sort of timeline you're eyeing to actually shoot the pilot, established actors will sometimes attach themselves to a project they really like as a star vehicle for themselves, and then it gets shopped around to the networks as a package: this series idea/script and this star, anyone interested, and if so can we come to terms to produce it?  But the contracts at all levels do always have a timeline of how long you "own" the actors until you have to fish or cut bait

Thanks, it's great getting a better sense of how this stuff works behind the scenes.  I've read a number of interviews with character actors on avclub.com and they often describe two situations.  One is after initially being approached for a job, they spend years in back and forth before it is shot, and the other is the complete opposite -- they meet the director/producer/casting person and after maybe five minutes of talking get hired.  I get the sense casting can be either agonizingly slow while waiting for other pieces to fall into place, or scarily fast because you're trying to fill out a cast before shooting begins.

I'm sort of surprised more networks (at least the smaller ones) don't follow the Always Sunny model of hiring a group that will do the acting, writing and producing altogether -- it reduces the number of pieces that have to be assembled.  But then you also have to find people who can do all three successfully, like McElhenney, Day and Howerton, and I realize that's pretty rare.

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